Theresa May's Conservatives
Jeremy Corbyn's Labour
Tim Farron's Liberal Democrats
Paul Nuttall's UKIP
2 people's Greens
Nicholas Durgeon's Scottish Nationalists
Satan's Sinn Fein
Dr Ian Paisley's DUP
Some other bunch of nonces
I'm foreign, but I wish I were an Englishman
They do, but that's easy enough to deal with. What do most people inherit? Very fucking little. A house and some Argos jewelry if you're lucky. So ring-fence the deceased's main and principle home and £x of savings as tax free inheritance.
Then you spray paint "we will spend anything above and beyond this on the NHS and robotic anti-imigrant boat drones" on the side of a Bendy-bus, sit back and count your votes.
Then everyone would leave the maximum £ and give the rest away beforehand, necessitating Boydy's completely unworkable Ministry of Love style intrusion into how much cash grandma is putting in envelopes for the grandkids' birthdays.
Loop holes are easily closed if you wish to do so. That's the problem here, the lack of will because it would be against the best interests of the ruling classes.
Canadian medical association roasting Rishi on twitter
How come British medical staff are so eager to work in systems that they would never support here in a million years?
The NHS is a great concept. The British government and public have made it abundantly clear they are not willing to fund it adequately in order to meet the increasing demands and costs placed upon it.
Instead, they have expected its workforce to shoulder the burden of both the increasing financial cost (through erosion of wages to divert money to pay for other parts of the service) and the increasing workload. Working conditions are absolutely appalling; I don't care how cliché it is, people who haven't worked in healthcare simply don't understand. They don't believe it can be as bad as it is, because they can't imagine surviving working in those circumstances.
We are no longer prepared to be sacrificed on the altar of the NHS. People want the NHS, they can pay for it properly and that means paying us properly, commensurate with our level of skill, training, education and responsibility as well as the huge financial costs we have to shoulder just to be able to work and progress. There is an international market for our us and if the British government and British public continue to treat us the way they do, we will go.
It's not our job to save the NHS in the face of a government trying to strip it to the bone and a public who couldn't give a shit.
The NHS gets £160 Billion a year.
A quick look at the numbers, and we spend a bit more than Spain and Italy, a bit less than Ireland and Australia. Middle of the pack really.
I think most of the problem is with management. Not funding.
Our government and the Canadian government spends the same on healthcare, but in Canada (and most other developed countries) their system of multiple providers allows for/requires private top-ups, which is what enables them to entice British doctors over and generate superior outcomes. I think most people with a bit of disposable income would be happy with a system like that if it gave them an element of control over their provision. If it's just more taxes down the toilet then you can't blame them for being against it.
Yeah. So if you want a free at the point of use service which isn't fucking falling apart, you'll have to pay more from taxes than Canada do.Originally Posted by Lewis
If people don't trust the government enough to give them that money, perhaps they should stop voting these corrupt reptiles into power.
If people don't want free at the point of use, then they are going the right way about getting rid of it.
Doctors aren't even asking to be paid what they could get in Oz/NZ/Canada. Even with full pay restoration, we'd be earning way less than our international market rate and with infinitely worse working conditions. We're just asking not to be paid a third less than we were 15 years ago.
Last edited by randomlegend; 16-07-2023 at 04:38 PM.
Is the bolding a placeholder for where you stopped reading?
I mean I read everything after it, but placed no value on it because it's just your own meaningless conjecture based on nothing.
Firstly, a large portion of the population don't have any disposable income and secondly polls suggest that 84-90% of people still support a free-at-the-point of use tax-funded NHS.
https://www.health.org.uk/publicatio...-of-discontent
Support for the founding principles of the NHS remains as strong as ever. Most people still believe that the principles of the NHS being free at the point of delivery (90%), providing a comprehensive service (89%) and being funded through taxation (84%) should continue to apply today
The Great British Public have also 'made it abundantly clear they are not willing to fund it adequately', according to you, so what do they know about anything? The healthcare 'debate' in this country is that the options are putting increasing amounts of money into Our NHS or the American system. Maybe if people knew what every other developed country has they might be more open to alternatives.
Ok, and?
You seem to think you've got doctors in some "gotcha", but I doubt you'll find many who would oppose a partially contributions based system at this point given (as I said) it's abundantly clear the government and public aren't prepared to fund a tax-funded system properly.
We're back to the original question. If you believe that the public won't pay the taxes necessary to fund the National Health Service 'properly', rather than crying off to Australia or Canada or any other country with drinkable water, why not try and bring a bit of their system[s] here?
What planet are you living on where you think that's a) remotely our job and b) something we have literally any power to influence?
Boggles my mind that you genuinely believe we should not only be doing our own job 48+ hours a week but also reforming the health service in our spare time to help out this cretinous government.
Last edited by randomlegend; 16-07-2023 at 06:00 PM.
Not personally, but the British Medical Association or whoever could advocate and support reform along those lines, which would go some way towards helping any future government - who will also pay you the same amount, and struggle to wring any more taxes out of a reluctant population - sort things out. It seems like a win/win for any far-sighted medical interest, which we obviously don't have.
The NHS is not the unworkable system you want to paint it as.
It's this appalling, incompetent government who have got it into this state. I appreciate it's pointless having that discussion with you because you're an irrational fangirl, but that is the fact of the matter. Prior to this government, the NHS was in a far better state with far better outcomes and staff were far more fairly paid with far better working conditions. This is all measurably fact.
Doctors may be at the point where we'd reluctantly accept an Aussie style system coming in but that doesn't mean we'd actively campaign for it. The NHS is a workable system if properly funded under a competent government. It's not a workable system under a corrupt government who piss money away to their mates on PPE that has to be burned and deliberately grind it into the ground.
The money wasted on track and trace alone would've paid for restoration of doctors wages back to the levels we are asking for for 37 years.
The thing currently consumes more money than it ever has, and currently costs the government slightly more than the 2019 Labour manifesto was promising to spend on it by this point. You do have to wonder what levels of specific incompetence are running riot in the Department of Health to be scuppering even Jeremy Corbyn-levels of health spending, which, according to their manifesto, were going to 'Rebuild Our Public Services'. It was still comparatively middling in 2010 after New Labour had put it on spending trajectories to consume the entirety of our tax take by 2040 (and that was on the assumption of reasonably consistent growth). We also have fifty per cent more over-sixties in the country now than in 2010, which, correct me if I'm wrong, hoovers up the majority of health spending. So yeah, with limitless funding and the ideal demographic profile, it's a perfectly workable system; but without those... Bearing those things in mind, and what you've said about the government (and any other government) being an issue, and the voters being an issue, it seems like an obvious benefit to take the politics out of the entire system like other countries largely have.
And yes, they could have given you all of the test 'n' trace money, but seeing as the vast majority of it went on the 'test' bit, we would have had to charge for those, and that would have been privatisation, which is bad.
I with Lewis on that last sentence. Free tests ensured most people actually took them.
You cannot even imagine.You do have to wonder what levels of specific incompetence are running riot in the Department of Health to be scuppering even Jeremy Corbyn-levels of health spending
Was finally persuaded by my mate to attend a local Labour Party event, at an Indian in town. I feel a bit like the Chinese fella in that father ted episode - well, the presentation was a pile of crap, but the curry, much appreciated!
Nah, in all seriousness it was fucking well rubbish. Is there a better encapsulation of post-Corbyn Labour than the fact that the two raffle prizes standing front and centre were books by Tony Blair and Alistair Campbell, and they were the first two to go before some nice whisky, some chocolates, and some beer (the tickets weren't assigned to specific prizes, whoever won first got to pick). The speaker was standing for some bullshit local thing like deputy commissioner of the West Midlands and Warwickshire assembly legislative council or some bollocks, i wasn't really paying attention, and he went on for NEARLY AN HOUR. At least my best man's speech was quick.
I'm not even saying this is worse for the party as a whole than the Corbyn days, it's prob much better electorally and all that shit, but jesus christ, I didn't exactly feel inspired to go fucking canvassing.
Last edited by igor_balis; 17-07-2023 at 11:16 PM.
After their ABSOLUTELY FINAL OFFER AND WE WON'T TALK ABOUT IT AGAIN EVER offer, the government appear to have already come back to the negotiating table with the doctors.
Grant Shapps Defence Secretary?
lol
At least he's only incompetent, rather than dangerous.
Got to have the big guns in charge of the big guns.
Junior doctor strike mandate extended after a 98% yes vote on a 71% turnout
By all accounts Grant Shapps is reasonably competent, albeit in a rat-like man-on-the-make sense, which is probably why he has never had an important job before. Not that Minister of Defence does anything useful. They just get to take pictures with things whilst the Treasury and the services squeeze them either way. For all everyone raves about Ben Wallace it's hard to see what he did for our own capabilities in all his time on the job, and I don't blame the Americans for blocking his NATO aspirations if he really went round promising F-16s before agreeing it with them.
Not sure on the right thread but read some grim news about a lad I used to play football with. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...n-66637838.amp London 👎
Gordon Brown got caught on a hot mic over a decade ago, how thick do you have to be to get caught on one in 2023?
We've got no government AND no police chief now, what a place.
BBC News - PSNI police chief Simon Byrne resigns, BBC understands
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-66708101
Actual Anarchy in the UK
No stairs for me even at a healthy weight then
Team no stairs
I'm over 5 stone too light.
Possible election being called?
No, boring.
lol if you think the tories are calling an election a single day before they are legally obligated to.
Can't really get my head around this [apparent] scorched earth approach. Who is going to be wooed by this climate shifting? Presumably all the old people [I would imagine the target audience] will be seething too much about their pensions and every other potential voter has a myriad of other more pressing concerns than whether new petrol cars are still going to be for sale in 7 years.
They've completely lost the fucking plot
Trying to shore up the right at this point is genuinely mental. The right will be good boys and vote for them. The issue is the votes they lose to LDs and Labour.
Sunak is playing Westminster politics rather than national politics. I don't think he's cut out for politics at all. Policy, yes but thar's different.
Actually, the only thing I can think of is that he's trying to position himself either to remain as leader or to remain influential in some way after an election defeat.
If he was appeasing the right the entire legal framework would be binned. These are pretty reasonable adjustments, but hyping them up like this is pointless on its own terms, and it just sets all the bullshit complex off catastrophising.
Can only assume he's [they're] terrified of Deadly Dom's nascent this party will implode in X years party.
This Joe Biden on the picket line thing is a bit odd.
Not sure if the sight of him standing around like a lube waiting to be handed the megaphone or the secret service shitting themselves as he tries to interact with a bunch of black people is more amusing. Probably the secret service though, everything with them is so over the top.
I used to walk past and survey the abomination on a daily basis but HS2 looks like it may be looked back on as a catalyst for change (and I don't just mean as a result of the fucking useless Indian cunt's imminent hanging) so fairplay.
I find it hard to believe that it can't be done cheaper by eliminating a lot of the needless tunnel sections. The London to Birmingham leg is nearly all covered over because idiots complained. If not, force masses of other development on the bastards to recoup some of the cost like the olden days railway crooks did.
I wish to retract any negative opinions I may have had on our incredible Indian leader
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