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Thread: Blood on the Clocktower 2: Electric Boogaloo

  1. #251
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by niko_cee View Post
    There is probably a way to actually work this out from known information, but I'm not at that point yet. It is still plausible that 3 players could be the imp, but in increasing likelihood:

    1 - Manc, obviously not, I assume there is no mechanic whereby that stunt could have worked, he must be the slayer
    2 - Baz, I suppose he could, as a bad guy, have set-up some elaborate no kill on night 1 with the imp being poisoned and then 'killing' him to make his soldier bluff stick, however, if you were going for this you would do it with the actual imp wouldn't you, but Baz must have been the Scarlett Woman in that set-up which would be levels of chicanery too great for me. Well done if so. Having the monk protect him just adds further levels of wtf to the scenario.
    3 - Jimmy, I have been suspicious of Jimmy through the game. What Mahow says about his spreading his role about the town and not dying has merit. I suppose perhaps the imp could have been targeting him and other people have died, or at least they tried once before stumbling upon me. It would have been impossible to deactivate his power and poison me on the same night, I believe. Me being vocally suspicious of him to potential wrong'uns would have been cause to keep him alive.
    4 - Mahow, ah Mahow. When I said 2% above I was making reference to doubts I had as to his veracity that I discussed with him when he and P_3 seemed to have somewhat interchangeable levels of info on each other from what they had told me [P_3 declared a role to me whilst Mahow said he only hinted, then later in the same conversation he made mention of P_3 being the investigator - I had probably given him something to work with in terms of deduction but it struck me at the time] - we obviously got past that point. Anyway. Mahow says he's the virgin. A claim that is in theory testable. Pleb tested it and lived. OK. Pleb was in the frame as a bad guy and the way he did the check looked exactly like the way I did it last time round, taking it for the team once my number was up. But Pleb being bad presupposes a number of outset facts which do not tally. Pepe said he was the librarian and saw one of Thommo or P_3 as the saint. As far as we know there are no outsiders on play [maybe this is trusting Mahow too much but he hasn't been challenged on this by any games masters so I have to believe it]. P_3 obviously wasn't the saint as the game would be over. Thommo said he was the monk. As a lie that makes no sense. So Pepe's info was bad, or he's just trolled the town for lols. So, with Pepe having bad info we have P_3 and his investigator role. His information was that one of Manc or Pleb was the Scarlett Woman. This must also be wrong as the game would have ended with Manc's slayer shot on Boydy. P_3's information being deliberately wrong is far more plausible. I read Pleb as the poisoner. I went through many scenarios in my mind as to how that might have happened. I knew I must have been poisoned as it made no sense as a ploy from the bad guys to fit up one of their own, but lie about their role. However, at the same time, I convinced myself of a somewhat elaborate scheme that necessitated me being told he was a bad guy, but it still be bad info. In hindsight I was looking for this to stick with my trust in Mahow's role. If Pleb was good, then short of some otherwordly levels of poisoning skill, he should have died with his Mahow nomination. That he didn't, and then slunk off into the shadows never to be seen again [further classic bad guy behaviour] can only mean that Mahow was lying about his role, and if he was lying, well, what for?
    I did think about a scenario where Scarlet Woman Baz took advantage of the successful protection of someone by the Monk on night one and used it to claim the Soldier, but like you say, surely you'd do that with the Imp rather than with the Scarlet Woman.

    Fair play to Mahow as the Pleb is bad / poison the Undertaker ruse was pretty skilfully done, but unfortunately for him he was let down by Boydy and P_3 suffering catastrophic engine failure on the home straight.
    Last edited by Jimmy Floyd; 16-09-2021 at 08:07 AM.

  2. #252
    Senior Member niko_cee's Avatar
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    Well, perhaps. Other options are still available and it's not impossible that I was compromised in a different way, although I think it less likely.

    This is why it is useful to actually execute people and for no-ongoing-skill townies to volunteer to die/sacrifice themselves rather than hide in the shadows [not that we had many of those in this game, ah to be a washerwoman]. One execution in the game and the info was tampered with.

  3. #253
    Senior Member niko_cee's Avatar
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    Going back through the records I said this to Mahow a few days ago [think it's ok to post my own words]:

    It's Jimmy and Boydy for me, boydy the imp
    that or you and P_3 have done me up like a kipper

  4. #254
    Isn't he banned? Baz's Avatar
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    thommo only revealed he protected me after I came out as a soldier, but I do think it was a weird coincidence.

    I’m not sure who’s good and bad now.
    I'm a twit

  5. #255
    Senior Member niko_cee's Avatar
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    Other interesting information from the run up to the Pleb kill was that Mahow, whilst at first keen on having Pleb nominate him, then went cold on the idea - wanting to keep his virginity intact - so I suggested that as there seemed to be a groundswell of opinion against Pleb both in public and private it might be worth keeping his powder dry so as not to provoke the [apparently unwanted] retaliatory nomination. Mahow then barreled in with a very early, heavy hitting nomination on Pleb and the predictable happened. Again it seemed a bit off to me at the time, but Pleb was being such a monumental bad guy I swept it under the carpet.

  6. #256
    Senior Member Manc's Avatar
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    Has Pleb communicated with anyone since his death?

  7. #257
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    As I kept pointing out, albeit not quite quickly enough or with any support whatsoever, the widespread assumption (fed, presumably, by the three bad guys) that Pleb was bad was what was doing for us that day. Initially I put it down to Mahow being a poisoned virgin, but subsequent events point to what was really going on there.

    I never trust groupthink early in this game, when you get into that you're toast.

  8. #258
    Senior Member niko_cee's Avatar
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    It just seemed that being plebrolled to that extent was unpossible, for me at least.

  9. #259
    Senior Member niko_cee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baz View Post
    thommo only revealed he protected me after I came out as a soldier, but I do think it was a weird coincidence.

    I’m not sure who’s good and bad now.
    I think as long as you take Pepe's claim at face value [why wouldn't you?] then the pieces all come together to make Mahow's claim to the virgin role unsustainable.

    There are permutations involving poisoning that make it impossible to know for certain, but the only person with the forensic knowledge of the order of play in the night [needed to make such a scheme work] is Mahow.

  10. #260
    Bookie Sir Andy Mahowry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by niko_cee View Post
    Other interesting information from the run up to the Pleb kill was that Mahow, whilst at first keen on having Pleb nominate him, then went cold on the idea - wanting to keep his virginity intact - so I suggested that as there seemed to be a groundswell of opinion against Pleb both in public and private it might be worth keeping his powder dry so as not to provoke the [apparently unwanted] retaliatory nomination. Mahow then barreled in with a very early, heavy hitting nomination on Pleb and the predictable happened. Again it seemed a bit off to me at the time, but Pleb was being such a monumental bad guy I swept it under the carpet.
    I told you I was going to nominate Pleb straight away. I had already given Pleb a chance to nominate me days ago and he shied away from it.

    Ideally I wanted to keep my power so someone like P_3 who I told to nominate me on day 1 could prove we were both good. This is one of the reasons why it thought P_3 was bad.

  11. #261
    Bookie Sir Andy Mahowry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by niko_cee View Post
    There is probably a way to actually work this out from known information, but I'm not at that point yet. It is still plausible that 3 players could be the imp, but in increasing likelihood:

    1 - Manc, obviously not, I assume there is no mechanic whereby that stunt could have worked, he must be the slayer
    2 - Baz, I suppose he could, as a bad guy, have set-up some elaborate no kill on night 1 with the imp being poisoned and then 'killing' him to make his soldier bluff stick, however, if you were going for this you would do it with the actual imp wouldn't you, but Baz must have been the Scarlett Woman in that set-up which would be levels of chicanery too great for me. Well done if so. Having the monk protect him just adds further levels of wtf to the scenario.
    3 - Jimmy, I have been suspicious of Jimmy through the game. What Mahow says about his spreading his role about the town and not dying has merit. I suppose perhaps the imp could have been targeting him and other people have died, or at least they tried once before stumbling upon me. It would have been impossible to deactivate his power and poison me on the same night, I believe. Me being vocally suspicious of him to potential wrong'uns would have been cause to keep him alive.
    4 - Mahow, ah Mahow. When I said 2% above I was making reference to doubts I had as to his veracity that I discussed with him when he and P_3 seemed to have somewhat interchangeable levels of info on each other from what they had told me [P_3 declared a role to me whilst Mahow said he only hinted, then later in the same conversation he made mention of P_3 being the investigator - I had probably given him something to work with in terms of deduction but it struck me at the time] - we obviously got past that point. Anyway. Mahow says he's the virgin. A claim that is in theory testable. Pleb tested it and lived. OK. Pleb was in the frame as a bad guy and the way he did the check looked exactly like the way I did it last time round, taking it for the team once my number was up. But Pleb being bad presupposes a number of outset facts which do not tally. Pepe said he was the librarian and saw one of Thommo or P_3 as the saint. As far as we know there are no outsiders on play [maybe this is trusting Mahow too much but he hasn't been challenged on this by any games masters so I have to believe it]. P_3 obviously wasn't the saint as the game would be over. Thommo said he was the monk. As a lie that makes no sense. So Pepe's info was bad, or he's just trolled the town for lols. So, with Pepe having bad info we have P_3 and his investigator role. His information was that one of Manc or Pleb was the Scarlett Woman. This must also be wrong as the game would have ended with Manc's slayer shot on Boydy. P_3's information being deliberately wrong is far more plausible. I read Pleb as the poisoner. I went through many scenarios in my mind as to how that might have happened. I knew I must have been poisoned as it made no sense as a ploy from the bad guys to fit up one of their own, but lie about their role. However, at the same time, I convinced myself of a somewhat elaborate scheme that necessitated me being told he was a bad guy, but it still be bad info. In hindsight I was looking for this to stick with my trust in Mahow's role. If Pleb was good, then short of some otherwordly levels of poisoning skill, he should have died with his Mahow nomination. That he didn't, and then slunk off into the shadows never to be seen again [further classic bad guy behaviour] can only mean that Mahow was lying about his role, and if he was lying, well, what for?
    I knew P_3 was the investigator at that time because you told me there was an investigator in play and when P_3 voted for Pleb he said "It was between Pleb and one other".

  12. #262
    Bookie Sir Andy Mahowry's Avatar
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    Anyway, I keep thinking I know everyone's role within the game and then a twist happens and it appears I know fuck all.

    At this point the only things I know for sure are that Manc is the slayer and I am the virgin.

    I assumed that Baz was the soldier all along and I had Jimmy down as the poisoner (but then went cold on him when P_3's info turned out to be shit).

    I still think Jimmy is the play here as the potential for Baz to be the new gimp is just so wild that even if it's true you have to hold you hands up and say well fucking played to the evil team.

  13. #263
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    If Baz was a possibility, he would surely have had me killed in the most recent night. That option wasn't available to you because you had to kill Niko then to stop him finding out about your massive con stunt when P_3 died, and then the next part of your plan was to use the 'Why hasn't the demon killed the Mayor by now? Eh? Eh?' pretext to get me executed now.

    If we don't execute Mahow on this day (and therefore win via Mayor) it's all over red rover, because he'll then kill me (or Manc, if I am executed) in the night and win vs Baz (who, if his claim stands up, the Imp can't kill).

    No execution could work but it's a bit of a gamble as if/when the Imp kills me, then you're on your own for another day working out which of Mahow and Baz is evil (hint: it's Mahow).

  14. #264
    Bookie Sir Andy Mahowry's Avatar
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    I think this fits:

    P_3 as the poisoner, Boydy as the Gimp and Jimmy as the scarlet woman/gimp.

    P_3 poisons Pepe on night 1 which is Pepe's info is shit and why P_3's info was wrong. P_3 also then poisons me on the day Pleb virgin checks me and that night (he wakes before the Undertaker) he poisons Niko who sees Pleb as the poisoner.

    P_3 also didn't put up a fight in the last round as there were rumblings of doubt towards Jimmy too so he didn't want to survive and have the blame shift towards Jimmy who should have been killed earlier if he really was the mayor who was telling everyone his role in private.

  15. #265
    Bookie Sir Andy Mahowry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Floyd View Post
    If Baz was a possibility, he would surely have had me killed in the most recent night. That option wasn't available to you because you had to kill Niko then to stop him finding out about your massive con stunt when P_3 died, and then the next part of your plan was to use the 'Why hasn't the demon killed the Mayor by now? Eh? Eh?' pretext to get me executed now.

    If we don't execute Mahow on this day (and therefore win via Mayor) it's all over red rover, because he'll then kill me (or Manc, if I am executed) in the night and win vs Baz (who, if his claim stands up, the Imp can't kill).

    No execution could work but it's a bit of a gamble as if/when the Imp kills me, then you're on your own for another day working out which of Mahow and Baz is evil (hint: it's Mahow).
    The mayor win only works if there is no execution tomorrow as well.

  16. #266
    Bookie Sir Andy Mahowry's Avatar
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    I told the town there is likely no outsiders due to the numbers in play which has seemingly been backed up.

    I told P_3 to virgin check me on day 1 which he said he would do and then didn't. Likely because he was the poisoner.

    I deduced that Manc was the slayer and convinced him to go for Boydy over Jimmy.

    I'm sure there are other major things I've done for this town too and for what? To try and give me cover to bluff as evil? My job would have been a lot easier had I done none of those things.

    Jimmy meanwhile told everyone he was the mayor early and has survived in the shadows.

  17. #267
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    Yeah, obviously that would be a win via killing the Imp. Win via Mayor would be 2 days of no executions from here, which is also doable but only if the Imp once again doesn't kill me, which he almost certainly will in the next night.

  18. #268
    Bookie Sir Andy Mahowry's Avatar
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    Fine let's try it.

    No executions today.

    If Jimmy is killed in the night you can kill me.

  19. #269
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Andy Mahowry View Post
    I told P_3 to virgin check me on day 1 which he said he would do and then didn't. Likely because he was the poisoner.

    I deduced that Manc was the slayer and convinced him to go for Boydy over Jimmy.
    Both of which are exactly what a Scarlet Woman would do to convince good players that he is distanced from Boydy (imp) and P3 (poisoner).

  20. #270
    Bookie Sir Andy Mahowry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Floyd View Post
    Both of which are exactly what a Scarlet Woman would do to convince good players that he is distanced from Boydy (imp) and P3 (poisoner).
    As to the first, why? It would put both me and P_3 under undue suspicion if he was to have enacted the plan.

    The second, as I've already said, why? Boydy wasn't under too much suspicion at the time, he could have easily survived the day and then killed himself in the night to pass it on to me (or P_3). Hell he could have probably even survived a second day too before killing himself to pass it on.

  21. #271
    Bookie Sir Andy Mahowry's Avatar
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    Also, your mayor plan falls down.

    If we no kill today, you'll kill Manc in the night. After that we no kill in the day again, good doesn't win as you're not the mayor and you then kill me to win the game for evil.

  22. #272
    Senior Member niko_cee's Avatar
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    Is there a reason why 1 v 1 defaults to a win for evil? I get that it can be defaulted to a tie in the voting for living players but dead votes could alter that dynamic. Is it considered to onerous for the bad guys to kill everyone?

  23. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by niko_cee View Post
    Is there a reason why 1 v 1 defaults to a win for evil? I get that it can be defaulted to a tie in the voting for living players but dead votes could alter that dynamic. Is it considered to onerous for the bad guys to kill everyone?
    There are probably certain scenarios where evil couldn't win otherwise. For example if you have a confirmed soldier in the game good could just leave him alive and win by default. I think it's probably more of an issue on the more complicated scripts though.

  24. #274
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    A Mayor win is highly unlikely now unless the Imp decides to spare me again (now that Niko is gone, he has no reason to do so, unless he wants to make me look evil and so have me executed in the day, something he could organise himself - this might actually be a half decent play for him if he wanted to avoid the possibility of being outvoted on the final day after I'm dead).

    We will have to win by executing the right person, the question is simply who, and since I know I am the Mayor, it can only really be Mahow unless hornéd Baz is sitting there lolling at us for even having this discussion. Given that you've behaved exactly like a Scarlet Woman all game long, whereas I've been right about Pleb from as soon as I realised that he wasn't bluffing (something you maintained right up until the results of the most recent night), I think it's far more risky for the town to execute me than it is to execute you.
    Last edited by Jimmy Floyd; 16-09-2021 at 11:49 AM.

  25. #275
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Andy Mahowry View Post
    As to the first, why? It would put both me and P_3 under undue suspicion if he was to have enacted the plan.

    The second, as I've already said, why? Boydy wasn't under too much suspicion at the time, he could have easily survived the day and then killed himself in the night to pass it on to me (or P_3). Hell he could have probably even survived a second day too before killing himself to pass it on.
    I don't think anything in this game could generate more trust from good players than correctly telling the Slayer who the Imp is. If you were the Scarlet Woman with 6-7 players left on the board, I think it's pretty much the ultimate long play.

    You would have got away with most of this if Boydy and P_3 hadn't fucked up their role claims.

  26. #276
    Bookie Sir Andy Mahowry's Avatar
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    Out of interest how many people here knew of Jimmy's role as the "mayor" prior to him coming out publicly?

    I know I did as he told me publicly on day 2.

    If I was the scarlet woman who fucking knew there was a mayor in play why is he still alive? Especially with a poisoner as my fellow baddie, I'd have had him killed instantly by telling the poisoner to target him and getting Boydy to gimp him.

  27. #277
    Bookie Sir Andy Mahowry's Avatar
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    All Jimmy's defence boils down to is an attack on me and how I must be a scarlet woman because I've helped the town and that he knew that Pleb wasn't evil (because he knew it was him, P_3 and Boydy).

  28. #278
    Isn't he banned? Baz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Andy Mahowry View Post
    Out of interest how many people here knew of Jimmy's role as the "mayor" prior to him coming out publicly?
    He told me after I revealed myself.
    I'm a twit

  29. #279
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    I think I told niko, Mahow and Baz in that order. At the time of telling I read them all as being good players (I thought Pepe's joke was regurgitated info). How wrong I was in the second case. If we lose then telling Mahow my role will have been the fatal error, or one of them.

  30. #280
    Bookie Sir Andy Mahowry's Avatar
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    Again, if you were the mayor why would I have kept you around for this long if I was evil?

    It muddies the water too much AND you're probably the best social deduction player on the board.

    I'd have told my fellow baddies and we'd have poison gimped you instantly.

  31. #281
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    Yeah, and then I'd have come back later in the game saying I was the Mayor, told Mahow I was the Mayor, and then was instantly killed. Not exactly too bright on the part of the demons to be that unsubtle.

    You needed me alive for a certain period in order to scotch my credibility as the Mayor and use this 'why is he alive???' argument.

  32. #282
    Bookie Sir Andy Mahowry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Floyd View Post
    Yeah, and then I'd have come back later in the game saying I was the Mayor, told Mahow I was the Mayor, and then was instantly killed. Not exactly too bright on the part of the demons to be that unsubtle.

    You needed me alive for a certain period in order to scotch my credibility as the Mayor and use this 'why is he alive???' argument.
    *Told Mahow, Baz and Niko.

    You're also someone who is generally targeted by the evil team if you're not evil because of how good you are in games like this.

  33. #283
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    Yeah but I didn't tell them all at the same time, did I.

    And that last argument gets used by bad guys every time I play one of these and is almost never true. I'm not that good, especially in this game which I'm playing for the first time and have made several errors.

  34. #284
    Senior Member niko_cee's Avatar
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    The more I go through how things have gone the more I seem to confuse myself. I tried to go back to the beginning to try and understand how things developed, but I'm not sure it really helps. Nevertheless. Only click this if you are a bit of a sadist.
    Toggle Spoiler

  35. #285
    Bookie Sir Andy Mahowry's Avatar
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    In regards to telling P_3 we had an undertaker I only told him there was an Undertaker in play after Pleb had died and you had seen him as the poisoner.

    I don't know if that makes me look more or less guilty but that is the truth.

  36. #286
    Isn't he banned? Baz's Avatar
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    You’re both far too invested and one of you is blatantly lying, so opinions of one of you are about to be tarnished.

    I wish I was the imp after all this though.
    I'm a twit

  37. #287
    Senior Member niko_cee's Avatar
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    My running order of who most deserves the win from the remaining players is:

    1= Baz/Manc, Baz if he's the bad guy and made whatever he's done work, Manc for the shot on Boydy, did all he could do, well played sir.
    3. Mahow, very believable shenanigans if that is what they are
    4. Jimmy, coasted it for me, game has fallen into his hands rather than him making it [might be 100% wrong and he's been masterminding the whole thing].

  38. #288
    Bookie Sir Andy Mahowry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baz View Post
    You’re both far too invested and one of you is blatantly lying, so opinions of one of you are about to be tarnished.

    I wish I was the imp after all this though.
    I've both loved and hated this game equally, it's been fantastic.

    As an aside they had a Twitch game a week or two ago of this script but it was played blind meaning no one was told their role. It was utterly brilliant to watch but it must have been hell to actually play. My brain probably would have burst trying to work everything out.

  39. #289
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    Niko is probably right as far as that merit list goes, which is why I don't know why Mahow keeps blowing smoke up my arse. I've not really used my role too brilliantly - bit of a rookie error blurting it as much as I did.

    I've also been in and out of the TTH tab all the way through, largely at work, so all 'efforts' have been a bit disjointed and not done nearly as much private chat as I might have done.

  40. #290
    Senior Member Gray Fox's Avatar
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    I guess this is as good a time as any to open up nominations!

  41. #291
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    Nominate Mahow.

  42. #292
    Bookie Sir Andy Mahowry's Avatar
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    I feel like I've laid out my defence a lot over the past 24 hours or so.

    As a quick summary, I am the virgin and I feel like Jimmy is the final bad for reasons I've stated.

    I vote no.

  43. #293
    Senior Member Gray Fox's Avatar
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    There are 2 votes needed to put Mahow on the block.

    At this point I will point out that no one as yet has used their 1 dead vote so a full 10 is still possible on everyone.

  44. #294
    Isn't he banned? Baz's Avatar
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    Nah, let’s slice Jimmy’s head off instead.
    I'm a twit

  45. #295
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    I vote yes, evidently.

  46. #296
    Senior Member Manc's Avatar
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    Jim not wasting a minute with that nomination.

  47. #297
    Senior Member Gray Fox's Avatar
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    Currently 7 still to vote. No dead votes used yet.

  48. #298
    Senior Member Gray Fox's Avatar
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    So I’ll put a 9pm time limit on this just in case there are other nominations to come after.

  49. #299
    Senior Member niko_cee's Avatar
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    I don't think I'll bite on this offer, but I am quite surprised by the complete lack of enthusiasm for the proposition.

  50. #300
    Senior Member Gray Fox's Avatar
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    The vote on Mahow fails.

    Anything else by 10 or I’ll close the night. If the 3 remaining who can nominate agree they don’t want to I’ll end it earlier.
    Last edited by Gray Fox; 16-09-2021 at 08:11 PM.

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