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Thread: U.S. Presidential Election 2016 (Sponsored by Betty Croker's Hamburger Helper)

  1. #8501
    Custom User Title phonics's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pepe View Post
    Twitter I bet.
    An absolutely minute amount of people use Twitter so I doubt it. 67m registered (not active) users vs 214m on Facebook.

  2. #8502
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pepe View Post
    The point is that, if you are going to write a law, do it properly. Creating a law that is basically a giant loophole makes no sense.

    We can also apply the very contemporary INEQUALITY paradigm to it. A poor woman will go to a doctor, he will say your health is not really in danger, and she will be screwed. Lewis's rich woman will worry about her stretch marks, will be told no, will get a lawyer, and get her abortion. because shit law-writing
    Yes, absolutely - most country club obgyns are now going to be performing late term abortions and Planned Parenthood is going to turn poor women away. That’s 100% going to be the result!

  3. #8503
    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phonics View Post
    Or a law that's suitably broad to allow the individuals involved with specialist knowledge of that specific case the ability to navigate it to the best of their ability or should we have set of rigid laws and have every decision decided by a judge who is an expert in law not in medicine?
    Those individuals with specialist knowledge would be able to navigate the case to the best of their ability if no law at all existed.

    A law that achieves the same thing as not having the law at all is a shit law.

  4. #8504
    Senior Member randomlegend's Avatar
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    Well abortions after 23 weeks have entirely different criteria as I imagine you're aware.

    I think as much as anything the legal requirements attached to abortions before 23 weeks now simply serve to function as a process to provide emotional and decision-making support to women. The law was - at the time it was written - I'm sure not intended to be such a catch-all but my personal opinion is that the way it actually functions now is entirely right, although clearly many wouldn't agree with that.

  5. #8505
    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by randomlegend View Post
    Well abortions after 23 weeks have entirely different criteria as I imagine you're aware.
    No, I am not aware. Thought we were talking late-term abortion here. I'm fine with it being a free-for-all up to a certain level (where that level should be is up for debate, of course) but at some point (again, debatable) it is hard to justify allowing it, and saying 'no one would do it unless they have a good reason' is not enough to convince me otherwise.

    Although truth be told, I am not even sure why I am bothering right now. Frankly, I don't really care all that much, since what the law says does not affect me personally. From a purely academic perspective though, I find it quite hard to justify late-term abortion.

  6. #8506
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    @phonics In all honesty I had only seen how they "lit up" New York in pink to celebrate the "landmark legislation" or what have you and then as @Pepe said saw the inevitable fallout between people saying how great it was or how cruel and disgusting it was on twitter.

    The only thing I could piece together from both sides was that it (seemingly) allowed for abortions up until birth (and I hadn't seen anything about it being w/r/t the mother's health or etc.) In fairness the left was just celebrating women's rights and not really going much into any detail whereas the right side was going full worst case scenario.

    I read someone describe in detail how the baby in it's 8th month would basically be injected with "poison", made to go through excruciating pain, the mother would then carry it for 24 hours and then "dispose" of it through the vagina (obviously) and I was like holy shit what the fuck. Then I saw a couple tweets from both sides confirming that it "allowed" abortions up "until term" and sort've made my mind up there.

    And honestly that does kinda piss me off because I hate when other people do that and here I am kinda taking bits and pieces of information to make an opinion. I didn't really research much of it before asking you guys about it and for that I apologize because that's kinda somewhat irresponsible in a way I'd have to guess.

    My problem is I have very little trust for the news at all these days and frankly I don't think I have the prerequisite intelligence to go through actual laws to interpret what it is they're talking about (though that may not come as any surprise to you fellas).

  7. #8507
    Senior Member randomlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pepe View Post
    No, I am not aware. Thought we were talking late-term abortion here. I'm fine with it being a free-for-all up to a certain level (where that level should be is up for debate, of course) but at some point (again, debatable) it is hard to justify allowing it, and saying 'no one would do it unless they have a good reason' is not enough to convince me otherwise.

    Although truth be told, I am not even sure why I am bothering right now. Frankly, I don't really care all that much, since what the law says does not affect me personally. From a purely academic perspective though, I find it quite hard to justify late-term abortion.
    I can't list the exact criteria of the top off my head, but for abortions after 23 weeks it's only circumstances like the mother's life being directly in danger or the foetus having significant disabilities where it's legal.

    The information in giving is for the UK btw, I know the initial debate sparked over US laws. Sorry if I've not made that clear.

    In reply to bruh, yeah the mechanics of late term abortions are fucking grim.
    Last edited by randomlegend; 28-01-2019 at 10:06 PM.

  8. #8508
    Senior Member Bernanke's Avatar
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    I love Vic Berger.

  9. #8509
    Romulus Augustulus ItalAussie's Avatar
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    Let's not pretend that the US right has any intention of waving through abortions before a certain cutoff, mind.

  10. #8510
    Romulus Augustulus ItalAussie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phonics View Post
    I love how you're trying to approach 2019 in American Politics with the idea of 'out logicing' a party that believes the best protection against guns is more guns, abortion is murder, healthcare is a privilege not a right and that climate change isn't real but god is.

    That's just the party, the actual base thinks everyone with a (D) next to their name is a satan-worshipping paedophile ordering 'cheese pizza' at Comet Ping Pong. And that's the normal ones who don't think QAnon is real.

    You've completely lost sight of what's going on. The Democrats have asked what the 5.7 billion he asked for is for and no-one can say, it's just a number they made up. Now you want to put together an actual shopping list for them and expect them not to take hostages until they get literally everything you listed out?

    Have you not been following the news for like... 12 years?
    I think the smartest way to beat the Republicans is to goad them to a level of crazy that they can't even pretend to defend.

    Although the pizza thing was somewhat chastening, I'll admit. But I have to believe that was just a vocal minority.

  11. #8511
    Custom User Title phonics's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItalAussie View Post
    I think the smartest way to beat the Republicans is to goad them to a level of crazy that they can't even pretend to defend.

    Although the pizza thing was somewhat chastening, I'll admit. But I have to believe that was just a vocal minority.
    Roy Moore lost by less than spoilt/write-in ballots after several months of reporting on him attempting to woo 14 year old girls as a 40 year old man, ignoring that he's a quite literal racist.

  12. #8512
    Romulus Augustulus ItalAussie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phonics View Post
    Roy Moore lost by less than spoilt/write-in ballots after several months of reporting on him attempting to woo 14 year old girls as a 40 year old man, ignoring that he's a quite literal racist.
    To be fair, that was Alabama. Trump could take a dump on camera in the Oval Office and he'd get a solid 65% there.

  13. #8513
    Won the Old Board Lewis's Avatar
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    Were those new anti-Semitic Democrats elected in similarly solid areas? Not that you get these people on both sides or anything.

  14. #8514
    Custom User Title phonics's Avatar
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    Who are the anti-semitic Democrats?

  15. #8515
    Won the Old Board Lewis's Avatar
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    I made them up hoping to fool you.

  16. #8516
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    Weren't there two Arabic women who were elected having been accused of it, though?

  17. #8517
    Senior Member Spikey M's Avatar
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  18. #8518
    I used to be funny.
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    I genuinely hope none of that is legit.

  19. #8519
    Won the Old Board Lewis's Avatar
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  20. #8520
    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    Do you think he will live-tweet the debates?

  21. #8521
    Senior Member John's Avatar
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    'TRAIL' is so good.

  22. #8522
    Senior Member Boydy's Avatar
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    Yes, it is 'so good' that the president of the USA is making a mocking reference to their genocidal history.

  23. #8523
    Senior Member John's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boydy View Post
    Yes, it is 'so good' that the president of the USA is making a mocking reference to their genocidal history.
    You know he's going to do that sort of shit, so at this point you might as well just lol at how brazen it is.

  24. #8524
    Won the Old Board Lewis's Avatar
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    Not to mention his continued adherence to the TTH Style Guide.

  25. #8525
    Senior Member Spikey M's Avatar
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    What if that's where Harold went?

  26. #8526
    Custom User Title phonics's Avatar
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    When I see people I know are racists being racists my first reaction is also to laugh at how clever the reference is.

  27. #8527
    Senior Member John's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phonics View Post
    When I see people I know are racists being racists my first reaction is also to laugh at how clever the reference is.
    You think that's a clever reference?

  28. #8528
    Senior Member randomlegend's Avatar
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    https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/co..._emergency_at/

    Soz for linking reddit thread. Lol America.

  29. #8529
    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    It's all good, the Green New Deal is coming.

  30. #8530
    I used to be funny.
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    All this over a fence the three prior presidents have been given the thumbs up to build.

  31. #8531
    DEATH TO THE WEIRD Raoul Duke's Avatar
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    Beginning of the slippery slope towards becoming a fascist state. This is America.

  32. #8532
    Won the Old Board Lewis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pepe View Post
    It's all good, the Green New Deal is coming.
    Good to see my bird 'AOC' going from strength to strength. If she was a Republican she would have been lolled into suicide by now.

  33. #8533
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    Not if you call it a freedom fence and charge $5 for pictures with it.

  34. #8534
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewis View Post
    Good to see my bird 'AOC' going from strength to strength. If she was a Republican she would have been lolled into suicide by now.
    Why? It is a messaging bill. The point is to make D’s say “Green New Deal” so they are stuck with trying to implement something at some point. Just like Trump and the wall or the Tea Party and Repeal Obamacare. It is only bad for whoever gets stuck trying to implement it.

  35. #8535
    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    Is that a good tactic for the 'dems?' It gives Trump the easiest campaign in the world; all he has to do is shout that the commies are coming to get your cows and your planes and half the country will get riled up. On the other side, does anyone care about global warming outside college campuses?

  36. #8536
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    Trump just has to put a fence up for four more years, tbh.

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    Long term it probably hurts D’s when they can’t deliver but that won’t be the AOC / Bernie crowds problem. They’ll just bitch about the corrupt corporate Dems which their base will believe regardless.

    In 2020, possible but it involves the 2020 election being a referendum on the Democrats and not a sitting President who is wildly unpopular and won’t have an achievement to run on because he is a classic Neustadt failed president. Do re-elects ever become referendums on the other guy? Will a dumbass who just choose the worst polling option, which has been blasted by Coulter and co on the hard right, that involves winning an appropriations pr fight about 9 billion that is mostly Pentagon money, a million legal fights, and it is never ever ever getting built (they are still fighting the expropriation when Bush expanded the fence).

    What’s the fucking pitch?

    Everything has been so calm and smooth - it will be chaos now!!! Trump is shit at politics, doesn’t learn, and prioritizes a base that is 35% of the country.

  38. #8538
    Won the Old Board Lewis's Avatar
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  39. #8539
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    Okay, that's top notch.

  40. #8540
    Romulus Augustulus ItalAussie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewis View Post
    Good to see my bird 'AOC' going from strength to strength. If she was a Republican she would have been lolled into suicide by now.
    Good on her. It's great how frothingly angry she makes Republicans. And how inept they are at landing a hit.

  41. #8541
    Won the Old Board Lewis's Avatar
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    Mate she is clinically brain dead.

  42. #8542
    Senior Member Spikey M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewis View Post

  43. #8543
    Romulus Augustulus ItalAussie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewis View Post
    Mate she is clinically brain dead.
    And yet she has no trouble getting the Fox nutjobs riled up on a nightly basis. And they wind up saying things that are even stupider than usual.

    She knows what she's doing.

  44. #8544
    Senior Member Queenslander's Avatar
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    Yeah AOC and the Muslim sheila know exactly what they are doing IMO.

    One of them will probably cark it before they can do anything worthwhile.
    Last edited by Queenslander; 17-02-2019 at 03:39 AM.

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    Senior Member mugbull's Avatar
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    I also love AOC for the indignant reactions she elicits from right-wing nutjobs. Even Lewis is shook.

  46. #8546
    Senior Member Queenslander's Avatar
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    Lewis Abbott

  47. #8547
    Won the Old Board Lewis's Avatar
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    I hadn't considered she was playing 4D chess. Now I see it.

  48. #8548
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    I love AOC so much

  49. #8549
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    Why does it have to be genius? Media pressure is the only option for members of Congress who have no institutional power. It’s the same playbook the Tea Party used. Just smart entry level politics from people who think controlling the party platform is some kind of win.

    It likely won’t result in any more policy wins, but all these people are obsessed with the Overton Window. She likely only has this level of coverage until the invisible primary ends, may as well use it.

  50. #8550
    Better Than You Henry's Avatar
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    The President of the United States just threatened "retribution" against a comedian for mocking him.

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