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View Poll Results: How do you feel about this?

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  • It's an absolute disgrace

    29 82.86%
  • Bring it on

    3 8.57%
  • I don't care enough about football these days to really give a shit

    3 8.57%
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Thread: European Super League

  1. #151
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7om View Post
    I highly doubt they care. Like James said, they’ll have their All Star games every other week with billions of Asian eyeballs on them. They’ll be raking in the money hand over fist. They won’t give a shit about Big Dave and his mates putting up a few banners on the front gates.
    If so then the logical conclusion will be to take the clubs out of their present locations and put them in Asia and America, at which point you have whittled away at the brands which are basically all they have and the only reason those people are watching in the first place.

  2. #152
    Senior Member Spoonsky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7om View Post
    I highly doubt they care. Like James said, they’ll have their All Star games every other week with billions of Asian eyeballs on them. They’ll be raking in the money hand over fist. They won’t give a shit about Big Dave and his mates putting up a few banners on the front gates.
    I think that's true and it means that the only thing that could really stop them would be actions by governments or football federations to highly disincentivize the best players and managers from going to those teams. (Or those players and managers spontaneously choosing to leave.) Banning them from the Euros would be a good start.

  3. #153
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    If you were in the rebel working party for this and wargamed the whole thing, what would you do if the establishment completely booted you out? You'd be in all sorts of trouble pretty much immediately (and it may well work out that way from the moment the trio get punted from the Champions League). Half your players will mutiny, for a start.

    That makes me think they're banking on the establishment lacking bottle, which is why the establishment has to hold firm no matter what, and Ceferin knows this, as it seems does Gary Neville and basically anyone with a brain.

  4. #154
    Won the Old Board Lewis's Avatar
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    The logic of the Superteams argument is that, for all there are fifteen founding members, only half of those are actually of any interest to the wider world, and five/ten years from now why wouldn't they want the terms tilting in their favour away from Inter and Tottenham?

  5. #155
    Senior Member Spoonsky's Avatar
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    https://www.thisisanfield.com/2021/0...tion-prevails/

    In the wake of Liverpool’s betrayal of their fans and the wider footballing world, a previously must-win clash at Leeds played out in a surreal atmosphere, with protests held outside Elland Road before kickoff.

    There was a sense of abandon in the Reds’ play that could only stem from the knowledge that they would be involved in an elite European competition next season regardless of their league placing, and it resulted in a number of early chances.

  6. #156
    Custom User Title phonics's Avatar
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    The one thing I find genuinely surprising is not informing the players and getting FIFPRO onside. If you’ve got the players, the pr doesn’t matter. Tell multi millionaire athletes they’re not important and see how that goes for you.

  7. #157
    Senior Member Waffdon's Avatar
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    Chelsea or Man City will drop out in the next few days and the rest will follow as Carragher said

  8. #158
    Senior Member Waffdon's Avatar
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    Klopp crying over Neville having a go at Liverpool is all kinds of lol

  9. #159
    Senior Member -james-'s Avatar
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    GNev :')

  10. #160
    Won the Old Board Lewis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waffdon View Post
    Chelsea or Man City will drop out in the next few days and the rest will follow as Carragher said
    Imagine the thought going into it. First to drop out, BOTTLERS and/or opportunists; but also potential goodwill if you scupper the full project. If you're second or third out you just look like a chump, so you might as well be last out and refuse to drop it.

  11. #161
    Administrator Kikó's Avatar
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    Monday Night Football has been blockbuster tonight.

  12. #162
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phonics View Post
    The one thing I find genuinely surprising is not informing the players and getting FIFPRO onside. If you’ve got the players, the pr doesn’t matter. Tell multi millionaire athletes they’re not important and see how that goes for you.
    The whole thing gives off the smell of having been rushed through - why?

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waffdon View Post
    Chelsea or Man City will drop out in the next few days and the rest will follow as Carragher said
    Surely one wouldn't announce this if they didn't have the balls to see it through for more than a few days.

  14. #164
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    For me, the whole thing hinges on the Premier League, if they support it, or at least don't condemn it and take action against it (I can also see the argument as to why they wouldn't), then I think it'll happen.

    Not news I know, but UEFA are a complete shambles. How the hell do they not know already whether they can legally ban clubs from their competition for going down this road.

  15. #165
    Custom User Title phonics's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Floyd View Post
    The whole thing gives off the smell of having been rushed through - why?
    Basically the same plans were leaked in January as well so I'm not sure. Tariq Panja said there was the beginning of the bidding process for the new Sky deal and they shit the bed which wouldn't surprise me.

  16. #166
    Senior Member Spoonsky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yevrah View Post
    Not news I know, but UEFA are a complete shambles. How the hell do they not know already whether they can legally ban clubs from their competition for going down this road.
    It's funny how basically every party in this seems to be significantly less prepared and professional even than we cynics would take them to be.

  17. #167
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    From what Perez is saying, it seems to be a panic reaction to the pandemic busting them all and the TV contracts shrinking.

    I bet someone got spooked by a really low quote for the next TV deal and it all spiralled out of control from there.

  18. #168
    mischamischaracterisation Dquincy's Avatar
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    Perez spouting some real nonsense tonight. Creating a narrative that just isn't there.

    As some have said today, my interest in football has waned over the past 5 years, but this will probably be the nail in the coffin. Even if I ignored the ESL, the affect it will have on the Premier League will be bloody awful.

  19. #169
    I used to be funny.
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    Their revenues don't even look that bad. Like, some are only down £50m-£100m. That's just one or two signings.

  20. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Floyd View Post
    From what Perez is saying, it seems to be a panic reaction to the pandemic busting them all and the TV contracts shrinking.

    I bet someone got spooked by a really low quote for the next TV deal and it all spiralled out of control from there.
    As a lot of business did, he's using the pandemic as an excuse.

  21. #171
    Senior Member 7om's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shindig View Post
    Their revenues don't even look that bad. Like, some are only down £50m-£100m. That's just one or two signings.
    As an example, aren’t Barcelona in the shit financially? I’d imagine losing any amount of money in their predicament would be enough for them to take a risk on this project.

  22. #172
    The Artist Formerly Known as Taz
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    It's the Carabao cup final, Spurs are managerless, possibly without their star man and generally in the mud. City...it's the Carabao cup. I better see 90 minutes of pure protestation and stunts from all 8K participants. Fake money, streakers, bog roll, turning backs to the game, throwing hot shit at the players, the full works.

  23. #173
    Won the Old Board Lewis's Avatar
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    You couldn't really have picked two lamer fanbases for the moment, so you'll get 'We are Super League' chants and inflatable bananas.

  24. #174
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    It's a tragedy we didn't get a full Elland Road giving it to the scousers for 90 minutes last night.

  25. #175
    Webly Ian's Avatar
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    “Gary Neville talks about ‘You’ll Never Walk Alone’, that at least should already be forbidden, to be honest,” the Liverpool boss told Sky Sports.


  26. #176
    Senior Member Spikey M's Avatar
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    He's such an OUTRAGE merchant. You just know he has a Twitter burner account that he uses to HOLD PEOPLE TO ACCOUNT.

    Neville that is.

    Klopp obviously spends his time online looking at very different content.

  27. #177
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    I wonder if Gary realises that his bosses at Sky would have been furiously contacting anyone they could to get in on the ESL action. I await the day he resigns in protest.

  28. #178
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    If his bosses at Sky are smart, they'll leave that to pirate TV and stick to the people's game. Their market, after all, is 'legacy fans'.

  29. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7om View Post
    As an example, aren’t Barcelona in the shit financially? I’d imagine losing any amount of money in their predicament would be enough for them to take a risk on this project.
    1.2bn Euros in debt. How the frig anyone can operate a club like that is beyond me. It all seems to go on players, as well. Last year shows United had a £474m net debt which ... probably means something and there's no way City operate a tight ship. Broadcasting rights is like £140m.

  30. #180
    Senior Member -james-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shindig View Post
    1.2bn Euros in debt. How the frig anyone can operate a club like that is beyond me. It all seems to go on players, as well. Last year shows United had a £474m net debt which ... probably means something and there's no way City operate a tight ship. Broadcasting rights is like £140m.
    I mean they don't give a fuck about the finances. As Neville said last night the whole operation at City is a PR routine which makes it seem likely that if anyone is to pull out, it'll be them.

  31. #181
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    I can guarantee that RA will be having night terrors about this as well, I'm actually quite surprised he went for it.

  32. #182
    Senior Member -james-'s Avatar
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    It's pretty impossible to say no once you know it exists and you've been invited. The ringleaders (United, Liverpool, Real?) are the real baddies.

  33. #183
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    Where is the money coming from? I imagine they are hoping to secure some big TV deals with this - or maybe even just sell their own subscription package (which is what the EPL should doing already).

    But who is going to buy it? Anywhere east of Thailand and the kick off times just don't work, so you are left with India basically. In the other direction, 8pm GMT is too early for US fans - they'll still be at work. So, you have European fans (who all seem to hate the idea) and the Indian fans.

    JP Morgan have provided around $4bn in capital for the first season. So, let's say they sell ESL season passes for streaming at $30 a pop. That's 133million subscriptions needed to breakeven... It's not happening. Obviously, there's other revenues in tickets, additional matchday revenue etc, but is that enough.

    Which reminds me... why on earth aren't the Premier League selling their own TV rights worldwide to individual subscribers. They would easily make more revenue then selling them individually. Sell a season pass for $35, and they would easily sell 100m or so a season. That would already beat the current worldwide TV deals.

  34. #184
    Administrator SvN's Avatar
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    $30 a season isn't happening. It will be closer to Sky prices and monthly, I'd imagine.

  35. #185
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    JP Morgan's putting up most of it, by the looks of things.

  36. #186
    Senior Member randomlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Arne View Post
    Where is the money coming from? I imagine they are hoping to secure some big TV deals with this - or maybe even just sell their own subscription package (which is what the EPL should doing already).

    But who is going to buy it? Anywhere east of Thailand and the kick off times just don't work, so you are left with India basically. In the other direction, 8pm GMT is too early for US fans - they'll still be at work. So, you have European fans (who all seem to hate the idea) and the Indian fans.

    JP Morgan have provided around $4bn in capital for the first season. So, let's say they sell ESL season passes for streaming at $30 a pop. That's 133million subscriptions needed to breakeven... It's not happening. Obviously, there's other revenues in tickets, additional matchday revenue etc, but is that enough.

    Which reminds me... why on earth aren't the Premier League selling their own TV rights worldwide to individual subscribers. They would easily make more revenue then selling them individually. Sell a season pass for $35, and they would easily sell 100m or so a season. That would already beat the current worldwide TV deals.
    Presumably because it requires quite a bit of infrastructure and expertise to actually broadcast the games, which they don't have.

  37. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Arne View Post
    Where is the money coming from? I imagine they are hoping to secure some big TV deals with this - or maybe even just sell their own subscription package (which is what the EPL should doing already).

    But who is going to buy it? Anywhere east of Thailand and the kick off times just don't work, so you are left with India basically. In the other direction, 8pm GMT is too early for US fans - they'll still be at work. So, you have European fans (who all seem to hate the idea) and the Indian fans.

    JP Morgan have provided around $4bn in capital for the first season. So, let's say they sell ESL season passes for streaming at $30 a pop. That's 133million subscriptions needed to breakeven... It's not happening. Obviously, there's other revenues in tickets, additional matchday revenue etc, but is that enough.

    Which reminds me... why on earth aren't the Premier League selling their own TV rights worldwide to individual subscribers. They would easily make more revenue then selling them individually. Sell a season pass for $35, and they would easily sell 100m or so a season. That would already beat the current worldwide TV deals.
    The issue with selling the rights individually is that Liverpool, United & Arsenal would far outsell everyone else and make far more money from doing it that way. Hence the collective bargaining agreement in place at the minute. This sounds very similar to when the PL was set up, the politics is very similar the bigger clubs want more money and this is the way to do it. The FA should have stood up to the big clubs in the late 80's and said no not a chance or taken far more power in the running of the league but they didn't and the bigger clubs have known ever since then they can get away with what they want.

  38. #188
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    I'd be willing to bet decent coin that the ultimate financial backers for this are MBS/the Saudis.

  39. #189
    The Artist Formerly Known as Taz
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    Are we getting a decision today on UEFA's treatment of the dirty dozen still in Europe?

  40. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by randomlegend View Post
    Presumably because it requires quite a bit of infrastructure and expertise to actually broadcast the games, which they don't have.
    Oh for sure there are initial capital costs for the equipment and infrastructure - but I still think the numbers work. Perhaps the only thing against it is the bigger clubs wanting a bigger slice of the pie - and this kinda of rights package would make it very easy to see those pie sizes.

  41. #191
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  42. #192
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    Sky’s Kaveh Solhekol reports that among the six ESL clubs, there are differing opinions, with some unhappy with how this has been handled and saying “this isn’t what we signed up for”. They were expecting a controlled media policy, is “shocked and taken aback” at the lack of a media policy, and unhappy at players, managers, and some board members being kept in the dark. Clubs involved aren’t close to pulling the plan ... “not yet”.
    They're in miles over their heads here, total misjudgement and they will pay with their credibility and quite possibly some seismic reforms to prevent it happening again.

    The whole scene reminds me of many American foreign policy mis-steps since 1900.

  43. #193
    Senior Member -james-'s Avatar
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    Doing social media for a non-involved football club this week must be the easiest job in the world.

  44. #194
    Senior Member Bernanke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Floyd View Post
    They're in miles over their heads here, total misjudgement and they will pay with their credibility and quite possibly some seismic reforms to prevent it happening again.

    The whole scene reminds me of many American foreign policy mis-steps since 1900.
    It's like the ultra-rich didn't get to where they're at because of business acumen and superior instincts, but rather because of systemic issues.

    But you know, it's their money and they earned their billions.
    Last edited by Bernanke; 20-04-2021 at 10:24 AM.

  45. #195
    Senior Member Manc's Avatar
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    What's the latest? Has Turin been burned to the ground?

  46. #196
    Senior Member Bernanke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manc View Post
    What's the latest? Has Turin been burned to the ground?


    The non-American owners being upset at the lack of "media strategy" seems like the general story.

  47. #197
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    It's going to be great when Chelsea, City and maybe Barcelona pull out and leave the others with their pants down.

  48. #198
    Senior Member -james-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Floyd View Post
    It's going to be great when Chelsea, City and maybe Barcelona pull out and leave the others with their pants down.
    Wouldn't be surprised if Florentino and Joel are on the phone desperately trying to convince them to stay in at the moment. They still hold a pretty strong position as long as clubs don't start bottling it.

    All it's really going to take is UEFA going "lol did you guys fancy winning the Champions League this season?" though.

  49. #199
    Webly Ian's Avatar
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    Fucking lol at anybody going along with this, being part of the whole thing and then shitting your pants at this stage when all that's happened is the immediate predictable reaction.

    Lol even more when any teams who do pull out (whether it be these first ones supposedly worrying already or if the whole thing collapses) they try to take credit for having 'done the right thing' because they definitely will.

  50. #200
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by -james- View Post
    Wouldn't be surprised if Florentino and Joel are on the phone desperately trying to convince them to stay in at the moment. They still hold a pretty strong position as long as clubs don't start bottling it.

    All it's really going to take is UEFA going "lol did you guys fancy winning the Champions League this season?" though.
    The whole thing is such a PR disaster that I can't see any way that the line doesn't break pretty quickly. It's quite cute in a way, clearly they had no idea of the scale of shitshow they were unleashing. You wouldn't do it like this, as a rational organisation. You'd wait until the summer and have everything under control.

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