Coronavirus Death Thread

[Yevrah]

You change your views constantly. It's mental that you deny this.

Are you on the spectrum?

Some things:

I don't change my views constantly. But again, feel free to point out where I have. I have of course changed views at times, it's important to take in the latest information when basing any view and information changes.

For example, a few months ago I found the horrifically under reported fact, as stated on AZ's (IIRC) website that vaccines protect 100% against severe disease. That made me think the vaccines were excellent. Well, it turns out they don't, manifestly they don't. So, they're not as good as I thought. View changed. Now some might say "well, they're only not that effective for some people in the mobility scooter brigade" and I'd say yes, that appears to be the case. BUT, given they're the exact demographic we're trying to save and I've spent 16 months working at home in attempting to do so, I feel I'm justified in changing my opinion on how good the vaccines are. We all also thought at one stage they would end this. It's pretty clear now (again, based on the latest picture, but that's always subject to change) that they might not.

People who hold one view and never change it, in direct opposition to changing times and what's actually happening now are idiots. Are you an idiot?

[Yevrah]

I feel he does about the vaccine. But definitely not about the dreaded science. There he's as consistent as ever.

And he did say he was going clubbing when this all opens up.

Vaccine bit addressed above. And I will go clubbing, there's an offer of a night out still on the table to whoever picked the date correctly.

[Spikey M]

Why is changing your mind seen as a bad thing? Is responding to new information a sign of weakness?

[Yevrah]

Yevrah's went from, "BUT WE HAVE A VACCINE!" to "THE VACCINE IS TERRIBLE!"

Addressed above, but if someone had told you a year ago we'd have jabbed as many people as we have and we'd still be where we are now would you have thought that were likely outcome? Again, not terrible (as you've thoroughly misrepresented me by claiming), but a bit crap.

And if people who've been jabbed are still dying in their hundreds, then they absolutely are 'a bit crap'.

[Kikó]

There really is no objective measure of the vaccine being "a bit crap'". We've got thousands of people currently with covid who are not ending up with serious illness unlike previous case spikes. We've seen globally falls in serious illness post vaccine rollouts.

[Yevrah]

Why is changing your mind seen as a bad thing? Is responding to new information a sign of weakness?

Indeed. It's what's kept me understanding what's going on throughout this. Which went something like this:

Jan-20 "This is sounding a bit serious now"
Feb-20 "That doctor has died, game changer"
Feb-20 "It's coming"
Feb-20 "Italy is on fire, we are fucked"
Mar-20 "It's going to end society as we know it"
Mar/Apr 20 The government avoids that happening by paying people not to work. The most radical instrument they've ever used in my lifetime.
2020 "We've had a look at it now, it's not as bad as we feared, in the absence of a vaccine we need to get back to normal life as best we can"
2020 "Fuck, we've got a vaccine. It's over when we've administered enough of it"
2021 "We've administered enough of it and this isn't over. Why not?"
2021 "People who have been jabbed are still dying, in reasonably sizeable numbers. Or at least enough to get the lockdown forever brigade mobilised."
2021 "Goal posts are moving. Why?"

That about sums it up. Obviously SCIENCE is missing from that, but weak/useless government is too.

[Yevrah]

There really is no objective measure of the vaccine being "a bit crap'". We've got thousands of people currently with covid who are not ending up with serious illness unlike previous case spikes. We've seen globally falls in serious illness post vaccine rollouts.

They said it protects 100% against severe disease. It doesn't. Would you prefer "not as good as we were told/scientists believed"?

And I'm not having a go at them for that as the sample size was nothing at the time compared to what we have now, but it's the reality of the situation.

[Yevrah]

There really is no objective measure of the vaccine being "a bit crap'". We've got thousands of people currently with covid who are not ending up with serious illness unlike previous case spikes. We've seen globally falls in serious illness post vaccine rollouts.

And that last bit isn't true. Globally daily deaths are currently higher than they were at almost any point last year.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

EDIT: And I clearly have to add this (FFS). That's not me saying it doesn't work, we just haven't administered enough of it globally for it to. I don't know why you're claiming we have.

[Shindig]

The goalposts are moving because at no point has this pandemic been a static situation. We're pulling the same cases as the second wave and a fraction are going into hospital. A fraction are dying. You can reasonably argue the vaccine's helped keep deaths down in this wave by 90%.

[Baz]

How many weeks after the first dose can you have the second? I've been told 8 as a minimum which seems bollocks.

Did you know the clinical guidance (from the manufacturers) says the wait time between the 1st and 2nd jab for the AstraZeneca vaccine should be at least 5 weeks, and only 3 weeks for Pfizer?

But they said 12 weeks initially and have now lowered it to 8, because they didn’t have enough.

Makes you think. WHAT ELSE ARE THEY LYING ABOUT.

Hello.

[Yevrah]

The goalposts are moving because at no point has this pandemic been a static situation. We're pulling the same cases as the second wave and a fraction are going into hospital. A fraction are dying. You can reasonably argue the vaccine's helped keep deaths down in this wave by 90%.

And I'd agree with that, it absolutely has. The numbers look like they bear it out. Get into mid to late August and we'll absolutely know for sure how many it's saved. Without vaccines we'd be in lockdown again now and life would be horrific. But then if a scientist hadn't left a fridge door open in Wuhan we likely wouldn't be in this situation in the first place, so swings and roundabouts.

[Kikó]

What does a global death tally show me?

Let's look at countries that are actually effectively rolling out the vaccine v not:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

v

https://www.worldometers.info/corona...ountry/brazil/


Israel is a great case in point : https://www.worldometers.info/corona...h-deaths-daily

[Offshore Toon]

I was told 3 weeks as minimum between jabs but you'd need a good reason to get in that quickly. Most people have been done just after 6 weeks here.

[Yevrah]

What you also need to bear in mind with the numbers as well is that we lost somewhere around 70,000+ people last year from care environments, that in reality are a sad irrelevance when it comes to comparison this year vs last as we willingly gave it to them while hiding behind the abomination that were lateral flow tests and COVID can't kill any of those people again. Basically, it's already plucked the low hanging fruit and if it hadn't, the deaths we've seen so far this summer (with vaccines in play) would potentially have been higher. EDIT: Higher than they are now, not higher than last year full stop.

[Yevrah]

What does a global death tally show me?

Nothing when it comes to looking at Israel. You're the one who mentioned global in one post and then decided to show me specific countries in the next. I've no idea why. I'm aware of how shit Brazil is compared to Israel and 100% know why thx.

[Dquincy]

Some things:

I don't change my views constantly. But again, feel free to point out where I have. I have of course changed views at times, it's important to take in the latest information when basing any view and information changes.

For example, a few months ago I found the horrifically under reported fact, as stated on AZ's (IIRC) website that vaccines protect 100% against severe disease. That made me think the vaccines were excellent. Well, it turns out they don't, manifestly they don't. So, they're not as good as I thought. View changed. Now some might say "well, they're only not that effective for some people in the mobility scooter brigade" and I'd say yes, that appears to be the case. BUT, given they're the exact demographic we're trying to save and I've spent 16 months working at home in attempting to do so, I feel I'm justified in changing my opinion on how good the vaccines are. We all also thought at one stage they would end this. It's pretty clear now (again, based on the latest picture, but that's always subject to change) that they might not.

People who hold one view and never change it, in direct opposition to changing times and what's actually happening now are idiots. Are you an idiot?

I suppose I've created an atmosphere where I'm an entertainer first, boss second. And probably an idiot third.

[Kikó]

Nothing when it comes to looking at Israel. You're the one who mentioned global in one post and then decided to show me specific countries in the next. I've no idea why. I'm aware of how shit Brazil is compared to Israel and 100% know why thx.

"We've seen globally falls in serious illness post vaccine rollouts."

The second half of the sentence implies it's post a vaccine rollout so obviously it's not all countries globally.

[Yevrah]

"We've seen globally falls in serious illness post vaccine rollouts."

The second half of the sentence implies it's post a vaccine rollout so obviously it's not all countries globally.

Fair enough. I am being a pedantic twat on this one, probably incorrectly. Apologies Kik's.

[Kikó]

Fair enough. I am being a pedantic twat on this one, probably incorrectly. Apologies Kik's.

Peace and love brother.

[Yevrah]

And don't get me wrong, vaccines absolutely are the way out of this, I've always thought that and them being a bit crap (vs. what we originally thought) doesn't change that. I had my two as soon as I could and I'm a strong advocate of everyone else doing likewise.

Your chances are far better with one and if (enough) people don't have them we're back in lockdown, as it's the only other tool we have.

[Spikey M]

Apart from ZeroCovid.

[Yevrah]

And don't get me wrong, vaccines absolutely are the way out of this, I've always thought that and them being a bit crap (vs. what we originally thought) doesn't change that. I had my two as soon as I could and I'm a strong advocate of everyone else doing likewise.

Your chances are far better with one and if (enough) people don't have them we're back in lockdown, as it's the only other tool we have.

And to add to this, unfortunately it's not me that needs to be convinced of this. No, as it stands now those most in need of convincing are the rank and file members of the SCIENCE brigade.

[Yevrah]

I think we've crossed swords there Spikey.

[Giggles]

I get my second tomorrow. 28 days since the first.

[Manc]

28th August is the earliest availability in my region apperantly.

[Spikey M]

28th August is the earliest availability in my region apperantly.

I thought uptake had been pathetic recently? Sure I saw that only 80,000 were vaccinated or something the other day.

[Yevrah]

I thought uptake had been pathetic recently? Sure I saw that only 80,000 were vaccinated or something the other day.

I thought that too. I think a percentage of the early to mid 30s can't be arsed and those in their 20s are choosing to contract COVID and fight it that way instead.

[thommo]

I'm still in my 20s (just) and all of the people I know in this age range have had theirs. Could be completely different throughout the country, but even a few mates who had quite large reservations about the vaccine ended up getting it as soon as they were able to.

Quite a few I know have had both doses too, although that could be because Wales have been ahead in the vaccine rollout (and still the slowest to contemplate opening up, madness).

[Spikey M]

This is where it gets tricky. I'm completely not OK with vaccine passports or any other underhand tactics to get needles in arms, but... we do need the needles in the fucking arms.

I do wonder how many more we'll manage. Unfortunately Magic isn't as rare a beast as we might wish he was.

[Magic]

We've all got it now and are immune so let's crack on. Apart from the fat trolls who are young and dying or WISHING THEY HAD THE VACCINE how about wishing you didn't eat takeaways every second night you pigs

[7om]

They said it protects 100% against severe disease. It doesn't. Would you prefer "not as good as we were told/scientists believed"?

And I'm not having a go at them for that as the sample size was nothing at the time compared to what we have now, but it's the reality of the situation.

Just a quick FYI:

https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/wh...-effectiveness

[Dquincy]

Fury at Australia and New Zealand's 'selfish, parochial and cowardly decision' to pull out of Rugby League World Cup in England - after blaming Britain's 'starkly different' handling of Covid pandemic

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ru...rus-fears.html

lol

[Yevrah]

Just a quick FYI:

https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/wh...-effectiveness

That is useful to know.

It does not help that a lot of media outlets seems to use the two interchangeably mind.

https://www.google.com/search?q=az+v...hrome&ie=UTF-8

Even AZ themselves seem to be at it.

[Yevrah]

Fury at Australia and New Zealand's 'selfish, parochial and cowardly decision' to pull out of Rugby League World Cup in England - after blaming Britain's 'starkly different' handling of Covid pandemic

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ru...rus-fears.html

lol

14% they'd vaccinated last time I checked. 14%. Proper third world stuff.

[Manc]

That's just typical of what they are. Diabolical.

[Queenslander]

We are at like 11 million out 26 million.

I'll be double jabbed on the 10th of August.

[Dquincy]

14% they'd vaccinated last time I checked. 14%. Proper third world stuff.

It's mental. Not sure why the uptake is so poor. Wonder if the sheer mass/spread of the country is a cause. But you'd expect the major cities to be all over it.

...Unless they are in the zerocovid gang and putting their eggs in that basket.

[Queenslander]

It's mental. Not sure why the uptake is so poor. Wonder if the sheer mass/spread of the country is a cause. But you'd expect the major cities to be all over it.

...Unless they are in the zerocovid gang and putting their eggs in that basket.

It is 100% Scott Morrison and his Government.

[Spikey M]

It's mental. Not sure why the uptake is so poor. Wonder if the sheer mass/spread of the country is a cause. But you'd expect the major cities to be all over it.

...Unless they are in the zerocovid gang and putting their eggs in that basket.

I suppose there's just no urgency over there. Would you bother getting the Ebola Vaccine when there's basically no risk? Maybe, but there'd be no rush and many wouldn't bother.

That's kind of the situation over there. Especially in New Zealand.

[Yevrah]

Aren't you sat on a load of AZ that you won't use?

And it's actually worse than I thought.



11.5%, lower than the global average.

[Queenslander]

The right wing media scared the fuck out of the boomers so they demand pfyzer now. Apparently we are sending a bunch to PNG because it.

[niko_cee]

I think it's more that they/their government are idiots, they were blasé about winning the border-shutting war and didn't think that there might need to be some sort of alternative exit strategy somewhere down the line.

Going all in and then all out on AZ before ever really getting it into anyone also a bit stupid. I guess being isolated from the rest of the world forever wasn't a 'risk' that they factored into their calculations.

[niko_cee]

I know it's bad, but you can't help but laugh at this [obviously quite out of date].

[Manc]

I've managed to reschedule my second dose for the first week of August. Result.

[Spikey M]

I know it's bad, but you can't help but laugh at this [obviously quite out of date].

Fuck me, how's your luck?

[Kikó]

I bet it said she died from COVID on the death certificate #scamdemic

[Yevrah]

Rand Paul rapidly becoming a hero of our time and this all still stinks to high heaven.

[Pepe]

Rand Paul has been a hero for a long time.

Rand.

[Yevrah]

What are some of his previous hits?

[Pepe]

You'll have to query the database (@Lewis) to get a list.