The All New Jobs Thread

[randomlegend]

But knowing their actual subject, that I presume they have a degree in, to a level where they should be able to impart it to kids without having to expend that much pre-class effort (compared to the other shitty burdens) seems like a pretty basic expectation. That's all I've questioned.

No, it's still not as straightforward as that. There is an expectation that you actually deliver interesting, engaging, innovative lessons. Rocking up and reading out of a book and asking for analysis isn't deemed an acceptable standard of teaching.

Understanding something and delivering it to children in a way which is accessible and makes them actually want to learn are totally different things. You can have a PHD in rocket science and still be useless at teaching 7 year olds about gravity.

[niko_cee]

Without wanting to cast aspersions, a surprising number of primary school teachers are found to 'lack secure knowledge of x, y or z subject' by Ofsted.

I think the actual killer is the cultural obsession with inclusivity [without appropriate support being available] which just leaves them firefighting the [many] fuckheads who are all too happy being disruptive. But this is me looking at my kids' primary school education through the eyes of a 41 year old, part of the colonial patriarchy, so it's a tricky one.

[randomlegend]

Without wanting to cast aspersions, a surprising number of primary school teachers are found to 'lack secure knowledge of x, y or z subject' by Ofsted.

For all my defence of teachers, this is 100% true.

[Dquincy]

Probably be the police.

[Pepe]

Maybe the sheer breadth of my TTH knowledge is blinding me a bit here, but if I think back to GCSE English (say), the teacher would read the stuff out along with you, and then offer/ask for analysis. If I have a relevant degree and a teaching qualification, I should be able to do that off the cuff with an entirely new text to a level that keeps me ahead of fifteen year olds. If I'm teaching it regularly and know the text[s] a bit better, how hard can it be?

Nowadays my prep time for the 4-5 classes I teach goes from about zero to thirty minutes per lecture, but I am allowed to do whatever I want. Teachers are probably asked to employ specific 'inclusive pedagogies' that change every couple of years, and that must get really annoying.

[randomlegend]

Nowadays my prep time for the 4-5 classes I teach goes from about zero to thirty minutes per lecture, but I am allowed to do whatever I want. Teachers are probably asked to employ specific 'inclusive pedagogies' that change every couple of years, and that must get really annoying.

It also makes a difference teaching adults who have chosen to be there vs children who are forced to be there. I can deliver a pretty decent seminar to med students. I could not teach kids.

[Pepe]

Most don't really act like they chose to be there, but agreed.

EDIT: Then again, the material is actually complicated. Algebra is piss easy.

[Lewis]

Schools and teaching must be massively improved on when I was there if the 'expectation' is that lessons are engaging and innovative.

[phonics]

Lewis has had one job in his entire life but presumes he knows everything about everyone elses. There's legitimately no point in engaging with him.

[Lewis]

Not when you're not even capable of reading what I've put.

[Pepe]

Teachers definitely have it tougher (mainly because of all of the surrounding stuff, not the teaching itself) and get paid less than me. Then again, that is why schools get less than stellar people to fill the role.

I reckon that if Lewis and I (and Spikey) were allowed to run the TTH Academy for Quite Excellent Youths, we would create the next golden generation no problem.

[phonics]

"How hard can it be?" says man who has worked 1 job ever ignoring the multitude of other things they have to do outside the lesson that has been pointed out to him over and over again.

[Pepe]

Most jobs are not all that hard.

[randomlegend]

Hence why most people are unable to comprehend that some (like teaching) genuinely are that hard.

[phonics]

Google says 18 per hour is a decent teaching salary. I pour pints at a pub for 5 quid an hour less.

[phonics]

Google says 18 per hour is a decent teaching salary. I pour pints at a pub for 5 quid an hour less.

LOL I just realised this is for someone with multiple years of experience and an entry level teacher is making less than I do to educate 30 children than I do to make sure a Staropramen is put in the correct glass.

[Lewis]

"How hard can it be?" says man who has worked 1 job ever ignoring the multitude of other things they have to do outside the lesson that has been pointed out to him over and over again.

I asked how hard a specific part of it is whilst repeatedly acknowledging the things you claim that I have ignored. Why can't you read things properly?

[neo_hippy]

Everything RL has said is true.

The Mrs is a primary teacher. Sets off at 7-7.30 each morning and never back before 6pm. Then works at least 4 hours each weekend and spends plenty of her money on class "materials". It really is a crap job.

I've shown her how her quality of life would be able the same stacking shelves. So any decent job would be far better.

She's off on maternity leave now though. so i think shes at least got another year or so there to avoid paying anything back. I can't wait for her to decide to pack it in

[Jimmy Floyd]

Bad news: the Paraguayan hotel forgot our 3am alarm calls
Good news: my circadian rhythms are so fucked that I never got to sleep in the first place

[Giggles]

Mine is the same, she worked from the time she came home yesterday til about 8pm, and will have to at the weekend too. They'll probably rob her pension before she retires too.

[Gray Fox]

I think the actual killer is the cultural obsession with inclusivity [without appropriate support being available] which just leaves them firefighting the [many] fuckheads who are all too happy being disruptive. But this is me looking at my kids' primary school education through the eyes of a 41 year old, part of the colonial patriarchy, so it's a tricky one.

The Mrs is a TA and this is also very true. She's said it's very surprising just how hard it is to get a disruptive dickhead kid removed. That's not even taking into account the ones who have genuine issues.
Sometimes the parents will work with you on it, but others it's very clear the parents have caused the problem child and you're just their babysitter for the day.

The easiest solution is to just gather the problem kids in their own class, however with teaching numbers way down it just isn't possible.

[Dquincy]

Everything RL has said is true.

The Mrs is a primary teacher. Sets off at 7-7.30 each morning and never back before 6pm. Then works at least 4 hours each weekend and spends plenty of her money on class "materials". It really is a crap job.

I've shown her how her quality of life would be able the same stacking shelves. So any decent job would be far better.

She's off on maternity leave now though. so i think shes at least got another year or so there to avoid paying anything back. I can't wait for her to decide to pack it in

Tbf, that's not too bad. I do those hours for work. Out the house by 7am ish and leave the office around 6pm.

[neo_hippy]

Tbf, that's not too bad. I do those hours for work. Out the house by 7am ish and leave the office around 6pm.

Without knowing your salary and commute time it's hard to compare jobs.

But someone as qualified as a teacher would be can get far better terms elsewhere

[Lofty]

My ma used to work for children's services to try and tackle absentee kids and the amount of parents who were just like 'can you not just pay for a taxi to get them to school' rather than wanting to sort the issues out was unreal.

[Shindig]

Aye, the problems don't just stop at the kids.

[Spikey M]

Yeah, it's usually a drug/alcohol feuled abusive hellhole all around.

[wullie]

My wife's a teacher and the part where you're just getting to teach (the kids who aren't pricks) is the part she loves, you could parachute her in and tell her that year 9 are at whichever point in the curriculum and she could wing an hour of wo ist die bahnhof bitte with no problem. It's the constant changes and all the other stuff that grinds them all down, things like having to deal with non-caring parents who couldn't give less of a shit if their dickhead kids aren't doing any work and having a 'senior leader' team who avoid getting involved in the kind of thing that surely falls well within their remit.

[Waffdon]

That’s a lot of TTH’ers with teachers as their partners.

I think Scotland will accept the new offer that’s due to come in - 7% backdated a year, 4.5.% from January to August this year and further 2% from next year I think.

[Pen]

Interesting stuff to read as I’m in the process of quitting teaching (I’m on study leave atm and don’t intend to return). I do echo the sentiment that actual teaching is great and I loved that part, but there’s so much unnecessary and time consuming shit that comes with the job that it really ruins the overall experience. Add in the fact that the wage is pretty shit and it’s no wonder people are jumping ship.

[Lofty]

The wage is terrible, mental really. I have this argument regularly as she is in the 'teachers do fuck all' camp and I'm a militant bleeding heart leftie who's mum was a teacher etc so I naturally support the right to strike. People are so angry about teachers wanting more money as if they have to pay the increase themselves, surely you want the best candidates available due to it being an attractive job. Same as the police 'oh no it's full of fucking morons' yeah because the pay is hilariously bad for anyone with a brain.

[Foe]

My mum was a teacher and the changes drove her to retire early. She’d be coming home from work and then working until midnight. It was absolutely mental to see.

Shame really, as I can imagine actual teaching being really rewarding. Isn’t sousepig a teacher? Be interested to hear his view.

[Pepe]

Hence why most people are unable to comprehend that some (like teaching) genuinely are that hard.

Time consuming? Sure. Soul sucking? No doubt. Full of annoying as fuck tasks? Definitely. But hard, as in requiring people with high level skills and/or talent to do? I don't think so.

[SvN]

I'd pay good money to see Lewis try and teach some year 9 set 5 class.

[randomlegend]

Time consuming? Sure. Soul sucking? No doubt. Full of annoying as fuck tasks? Definitely. But hard, as in requiring people with high level skills and/or talent to do? I don't think so.

Being a good teacher definitely requires skill/talent. The difference between a teacher phoning it in and a good teacher is absolutely stark.

It's not talent for the same sorts of things as being some world class authority in an intellectual field, but that doesn't make it less valuable.

Genuinely brilliant teachers can make a lifelong positive difference to a kid's life.

[Pepe]

Of course being a good *insert profession here* requires skill/talent. But being a median teacher does not. Nobody expects Robin Williams level teaching from everyone. Saying open your book in page 54 and do the exercises does not require some elevated intellect.

Of course there is the 'if we wanted better teachers we would pay more,' which I agree with, as long as it goes together with 'fire all of the shit ones.'

[Spikey M]

Pepe teaches American 21 year olds that care about mental health and feelings. Put him in a city school made up of 14 and 15 year olds and see how easy he thinks it is.

I would have a mental breakdown / end up facing a murder charge within the first week if I was confronted with the shit my teachers had to deal with.

[randomlegend]

Saying open your book in page 54 and do the exercises does not require some elevated intellect.
'

My wife has worked in schools across the entire range of Ofsted gradings and that kind of teaching would not have been accepted in any of them. They are regularly observed by senior leadership and given feedback on their teaching.

Yes, there are shit teachers. But the idea that you'll get by fine by just turning up and telling the kids to do a worksheet whilst you mark books just isn't reality.

[Pepe]

Put him in a city school made up of 14 and 15 year olds and see how easy he thinks it is.

I would not do it because it would be a waste of my time and actual skills/talents.

But yes lads. The wives of TTH could be finding cures for cancer right now plus solving Millennium Problems on their free time, but instead they choose to spend their time teaching rowdy toddlers how to count and where their knee is. Bless their hearts.

[Pepe]

I would have a mental breakdown / end up facing a murder charge within the first week if I was confronted with the shit my teachers had to deal with.

Sure, but then that doesn't make the teachers talented, unless 'willing to put of with shit' is the talent we're taking about here in which case they are indeed very talented.

[randomlegend]

But yes lads. The wives of TTH could be finding cures for cancer right now plus solving Millennium Problems on their free time,

You are a proper boring idiot to discuss anything with. It's amazing you're apparently some sort of academic. Or maybe it's not, actually.

[Spikey M]

I would not do it because it would be a waste of my time and actual skills/talents.

But yes lads. The wives of TTH could be finding cures for cancer right now plus solving Millennium Problems on their free time, but instead they choose to spend their time teaching rowdy toddlers how to count and where their knee is. Bless their hearts.

You misunderstand. I'm not saying their skills are wasted on teaching, I am saying their skill IS teaching. And it's a skill you are underestimating because lecturing at a University is easy. In a school, especially a rough one like I went to, you would be effectively bullied unless you can control the room. Which most of my teachers couldn't. The type of calm but menacing authority needed to do well is pretty rare.

[Spikey M]

Sure, but then that doesn't make the teachers talented, unless 'willing to put of with shit' is the talent we're taking about here in which case they are indeed very talented.

Not willing to put up with. Able to prevent.

[Pepe]

I agree that lecturing at a University is easy, very easy indeed, but I would like to see most of those quite excellent teachers try to explain the Navier-Stokes equation to a group of students. Most of them could not, since must of them couldn't even get a degree in Engineering.

As for 'controlling the room,' I agree that is not for everyone and it sucks that it is just made harder by idiot administrators.

[randomlegend]

Clueless.

[Spikey M]

Clueless.

I think the kids are just different over there. In my school the kids didn't dream of attending Uni, or becoming a doctor. Their dream was simply to make the teacher lose their shit by the end of the lesson. And then the teacher had 30 little cunts ing them for an hour and a half while they get tormented.

Maybe that happens in "I pledge allegiance to the flag" America too, I dunno. I doubt it though. I've seen Freedom Writers.

[Pepe]

This is what happens over here:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...r/11199382002/



But then you already knew that.

[randomlegend]

It's not even just about having good behaviour management. It's about actually inspiring and engaging kids in learning, which is what good teachers can do. It's not something anyone can do, it's not something that can be easily taught and it also takes time and preparation.

"Yeah but they can't do engineering equations mate" so fucking what? Yes, a university lecturer in engineering will have knowledge and talents a primary school teacher probably doesn't. Are you that insecure that you can't deal with the fact that they will have different knowledge and talents that you don't? You have to be "above" them in some way? Such a fucking bizarre line of argument.

[Spikey M]

Yeah we get the violence too, albeit wothout the guns. This is different to that.

[Pepe]

Alright lads, got to go TEACH THE YOUTH. Behave yourselves while I am gone, alright?

[randomlegend]

I bet he's really boring lol