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Thread: Putin On the Ritz

  1. #1551
    Won the Old Board Lewis's Avatar
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    The problem with 'raising awareness' is that your actions have to be in proportion to the seriousness of the issue, otherwise you just look like a tosser paying lip service to it all. Wouldn't he have raised infinitely more awareness if he had done something significant? If he had refused to race in discriminatory countries, it would have cost him money (which he has loads of), but then Mercedes have a decision to make when their main man walks out, every other team has a decision to make depending on what Mercedes do, the sport has a decision to make based on what the teams do...

    Muhammad Ali wouldn't have got within a hundred miles of a firefight had he joined the US Army, but he blew his career up to make a point, and people will remember it forever. Mercedes painting their car black (careful not to obscure the logo of the state-owned oil company of a country where homosexuality is banned) not so much.

  2. #1552
    Senior Member Spikey M's Avatar
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    Nail on head.

  3. #1553
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    A tosser paying lip service to it all is still better than basically agreeing with the fuckers. Hypocrisy doesn't ultimately matter.

  4. #1554

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    A politician, then.

  5. #1555
    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Floyd View Post
    A tosser paying lip service to it all is still better than basically agreeing with the fuckers.
    In which way is it better? Neither has a single effect on anyone affected. The only advantage in this case seems to go to the tosser, who can now claim to be on the good team.

  6. #1556
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    Not sure what's happened to Jim here, he was a founder member of team sniffing out bullshit (along with Lewis, John (RIP) and me), but this a real blow to his membership renewal.

  7. #1557
    Won the Old Board Lewis's Avatar
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    A politician is a good comparison, except people are allowed to think they're wankers without it revealing their secret prejudices.

  8. #1558
    Senior Member Spikey M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Floyd View Post
    Hypocrisy doesn't ultimately matter.
    I can't understand this mindset at all.

  9. #1559
    ram it up your shitpipe Giggles's Avatar
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    There’s no argument that will win here because when it’s sport or politics you have fans and non fans. And nobody will ever change the mind of either no matter what they do.

    Look at most of the posters here and Johnson.

  10. #1560
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    The Mohammed Ali example was a good one - Hamilton probably doesn't want to go to those lengths in terms of career suicide, but wants to at least mention it. Why does that make him the villain? Why does it have to be all or nothing? How on earth are people who take the dirty cash and fuck the morals the 'honest' good guys?

    Seb Vettel goes much further than Hamilton on the messaging, is equally 'hypocritical', but good on him for doing what he can whilst still doing what you have to do in this era to race full time at the highest level, i.e. turn up to dictatorships.

  11. #1561
    I used to be funny.
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    I do think when Hamilton talks about racism, he's perfectly suited to chip in. He must get that shit on a regular basis from twats on twitter.

  12. #1562
    ram it up your shitpipe Giggles's Avatar
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    A cause can be righteous even if the person preaching it is awful.

    For me Hamilton is a medial polished turd, but the jagged edges slip out the odd time. A person with absolutely no substance trained to say exactly what they should say at all times, all while cleaning up but pretending not to be.

    But then again, if someone is a fan then the above won’t change their mind. Nor will some gushing from a fan change mine.
    Last edited by Giggles; 01-07-2022 at 07:31 PM.

  13. #1563
    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    No need to be a 'good guy'. Do your job, make your money, get on with life.

  14. #1564
    Senior Member Spikey M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Floyd View Post
    The Mohammed Ali example was a good one - Hamilton probably doesn't want to go to those lengths in terms of career suicide, but wants to at least mention it. Why does that make him the villain? Why does it have to be all or nothing? How on earth are people who take the dirty cash and fuck the morals the 'honest' good guys?

    Seb Vettel goes much further than Hamilton on the messaging, is equally 'hypocritical', but good on him for doing what he can whilst still doing what you have to do in this era to race full time at the highest level, i.e. turn up to dictatorships.
    I take very little interest in F1 - the same as most people - so I have no idea what Vettel is up to. If he's pulling the same shit then he's a dickhead as well. Shit or get off the pot. If you're not going to do something, then just shut the fuck up and drive, rich boy.

  15. #1565

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pepe View Post
    No need to be a 'good guy'. Do your job, make your money, get on with life.
    That’s how you end up with shit like Brexit and the rest of us stood around dicks in hand thinking how the fuck did that happen. Activists are needed and Hamilton actually does a great job of it, even if his hypocrisy/personality/race annoys some people.

  16. #1566
    Senior Member Spikey M's Avatar
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    He's not an activist. Activists are active. He does nothing.

  17. #1567
    Man(c) of the People igor_balis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spikey M View Post
    I can't understand this mindset at all.
    I think hypocrisy is well overrated, at least in the British psyche. It's why there's still so much mileage in accusing anyone remotely left leaning of being a champagne socialist if they don't live in an actual tent. A not so distant cousin of why we hate divers more than leg breakers, it's a weird thing where an honest cunt is favoured over anyone remotely dishonest. I still think Hamilton is a bit of a nobhead though.

  18. #1568
    Man(c) of the People igor_balis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pepe View Post
    No need to be a 'good guy'. Do your job, make your money, get on with life.
    Libertarianism is a fucking disease.

  19. #1569
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by igor_balis View Post
    I think hypocrisy is well overrated, at least in the British psyche. It's why there's still so much mileage in accusing anyone remotely left leaning of being a champagne socialist if they don't live in an actual tent. A not so distant cousin of why we hate divers more than leg breakers, it's a weird thing where an honest cunt is favoured over anyone remotely dishonest. I still think Hamilton is a bit of a nobhead though.
    It all comes from how deeply entrenched the class system is here (something rarely understood by foreigners) and how anyone who leaves or even flirts with leaving 'where they came from' is seen as a traitor of one sort or another.

    Tim Henman, went to a nice school, talks like how you'd expect, plays tennis to a more than adequate standard, tick tick tick. Lewis Hamilton, black, originally working class but got spotted and helped financially on the way up (very bad news that), dresses like a weirdo, talks like a prat, incredible racing driver, unpopular. Jonny Wilkinson, tick tick tick. Raheem Sterling, black, loads of kids at a young age, gun tattoo, bad. Frank Lampard, would have been beloved in rugby, plays football instead, privileged Tory wanker (Eddie Howe also seen as a 'Tory', ostensibly because he talks in full sentences). Jofra Archer, wins the World Cup, wears a gold chain, 'needs to focus on his cricket'. Alastair Cook, 'right sort of family'. Lando Norris, dad has bajillions which is why he's in F1 and other kids aren't, doesn't hide it, 'honest', social media star, tick tick tick. Emma Raducanu, somehow becomes a culture war battleground through no fault of her own. Wiggo and Froome-dog.

    It's just who we are as a country.

  20. #1570
    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben View Post
    Activists are needed
    The modern day activists have a horrible track record, since their only goal seems to be to get everyone to say whatever phrase they decided is important to say, as opposed to finding ways to actually fix anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by igor_balis View Post
    Libertarianism is a fucking disease.
    Not sure what that has to do with anything, but alright.

  21. #1571
    I used to be funny.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pepe View Post
    The modern day activists have a horrible track record, since their only goal seems to be to get everyone to say whatever phrase they decided is important to say, as opposed to finding ways to actually fix anything.
    That partly depends on how expensive the problem is to fix. Although all I can find on Extinction Rebellion's tree planting efforts is a three-week spell in the Scottish Borders.

  22. #1572
    Senior Member Spikey M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Floyd View Post
    It all comes from how deeply entrenched the class system is here (something rarely understood by foreigners) and how anyone who leaves or even flirts with leaving 'where they came from' is seen as a traitor of one sort or another.

    Tim Henman, went to a nice school, talks like how you'd expect, plays tennis to a more than adequate standard, tick tick tick. Lewis Hamilton, black, originally working class but got spotted and helped financially on the way up (very bad news that), dresses like a weirdo, talks like a prat, incredible racing driver, unpopular. Jonny Wilkinson, tick tick tick. Raheem Sterling, black, loads of kids at a young age, gun tattoo, bad. Frank Lampard, would have been beloved in rugby, plays football instead, privileged Tory wanker (Eddie Howe also seen as a 'Tory', ostensibly because he talks in full sentences). Jofra Archer, wins the World Cup, wears a gold chain, 'needs to focus on his cricket'. Alastair Cook, 'right sort of family'. Lando Norris, dad has bajillions which is why he's in F1 and other kids aren't, doesn't hide it, 'honest', social media star, tick tick tick. Emma Raducanu, somehow becomes a culture war battleground through no fault of her own. Wiggo and Froome-dog.

    It's just who we are as a country.
    This goes on, but just as Jimmy Savile's background didn't matter, neither does Lewis Hamiltons. The bloke would still be a knob if he had been brought up being breast fed by the Queen.

  23. #1573

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    Aye but the media would be a lot more accommodating of him, which still influences a lot of people.

  24. #1574
    More successful than most Magic's Avatar
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    Just watched the Russian lathe accident. He deserved it.

  25. #1575
    The Artist Formerly Known as Taz
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    https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...14b_story.html

    Bit awks that. Hopefully won't make any of the 54 daily Ukraine updates on The Guardian, I'm still trying to come to terms with Peel being a nonce as it is.

  26. #1576
    Administrator Kikó's Avatar
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    Did you actually read the article?

  27. #1577
    The Artist Formerly Known as Taz
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    The tears washing away your blue and yellow face paint. We love to see it.

  28. #1578
    Senior Member Spikey M's Avatar
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    Does it not get boring having to take a performative unpopular opinion on every matter? Because it's fuckng boring reading it. You're edgy Taz. "YOU ARE MASSIVE". We get it. Mission accomplished.

  29. #1579
    The Artist Formerly Known as Taz
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    Here we go, they've sounded the Whatsapp alarm and are congregating.

  30. #1580
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    What I'm finding more interesting is how much longer we're going to keep this up for. Now it's clear that Russia (despite all the Western lol, they're useless bunting, which seems to have died btw) are not going to stop, how much longer are we going to allow the global economy to be tanked, while spending billions supporting an effort that is never going to 'win'? I know there's the human element, which is obviously horrific, but horrific things happen to humans on a daily basis - hell, we're often found causing them.

    If what we were doing had some sort of end game that would come within a reasonable timeframe then it'd be reasonable to continue until that's reached, but as it is and despite all of our efforts thousands of Ukranians and Russian's are dying, with no end it sight and everyone else is now having to pay six quid for a supermarket pizza. One really does have to question the point.

  31. #1581
    Senior Member Spikey M's Avatar
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    The Surender Monkeys have already started trotting out the "we must not embarrass Russia" line, it's dropped to third or fourth on the News and Ukraine are repeatedly saying that they've run out of weapons. I think interest is disappearing pretty quickly, and once the public forget about it, the politicians will too.

    That Japanese politician being killed and the Sri Lankan President being run out of town will no doubt make a lot of politicians consider their position a bit more carefully too.

  32. #1582
    I used to be funny.
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    I wouldn't lump the Abe assassination in with a popular uprising. Not unless all politicians think they could be murdered by a 40 year old nonce with a duct-taped pipegun any day of the week.

  33. #1583
    Administrator Kikó's Avatar
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    The Abe assassination is totally unrelated. https://twitter.com/Shayan86/status/...12GqJzwFQ&s=19

  34. #1584
    Administrator Kikó's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yevrah View Post
    What I'm finding more interesting is how much longer we're going to keep this up for. Now it's clear that Russia (despite all the Western lol, they're useless bunting, which seems to have died btw) are not going to stop, how much longer are we going to allow the global economy to be tanked, while spending billions supporting an effort that is never going to 'win'? I know there's the human element, which is obviously horrific, but horrific things happen to humans on a daily basis - hell, we're often found causing them.

    If what we were doing had some sort of end game that would come within a reasonable timeframe then it'd be reasonable to continue until that's reached, but as it is and despite all of our efforts thousands of Ukranians and Russian's are dying, with no end it sight and everyone else is now having to pay six quid for a supermarket pizza. One really does have to question the point.
    Russia have readjusted to the after the initial shitshow but Ukraine now seem to be able to strike longer range Russian positions so you're seeing more ammo dumps being blown up.

    We should stay in the war for as long as is necessary to stop Russia winning. Even if it means you have an expensive pizza.

  35. #1585
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kikó View Post
    Russia have readjusted to the after the initial shitshow but Ukraine now seem to be able to strike longer range Russian positions so you're seeing more ammo dumps being blown up.

    We should stay in the war for as long as is necessary to stop Russia winning. Even if it means you have an expensive pizza.
    As things stand I can afford the expensive pizza, so not much of a big deal, but not everyone is accustomed to the lifestyles you and I have. Why should we stay in the war for as long as necessary? Is it actually in Ukraine's benefit (on the whole) to keep this going for as long as possible? And as has been pointed out many times in this thread, we're not actually even in the bloody thing.

  36. #1586
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    I can't imagine throwing guns at this is actually a big spend.

  37. #1587
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    £1.3b has been pledged, which is a bit Amber Heard, but the bigger issue on the money side domestically (and internationally) is the impact the war itself is having on inflation.

  38. #1588

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    We’ll be involved as long as it provides an adequate distraction to the domestic shitshow.

  39. #1589
    Won the Old Board Lewis's Avatar
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    The problem is that Russia winning isn't something we really get a say in. Their baseline now is polishing off the rest of the Donbas by September/October and declaring. Run a couple of dodgy referendums, annex them, fill them with troops and equipment while they rebuild them. Then what? We won't recognise it, but they (and half the world) don't recognise Kosovo, and attacks against now official Russian territory are exactly the type of things that are liable to get the gas fully turned off just in time for the cold months. Germany and Italy will start becoming a lot more overt in wanting this over within the next month, and then the others will follow. It will only be us and America left pushing it by then, and if we're involved we want to be getting guarantees from America about liquid gas supplies (either direct or through them leaning on the likes of Qatar).

  40. #1590
    Senior Member Spikey M's Avatar
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    Lockheed Martin are making bank, who cares if the Dierdre and Barry have no heating.

  41. #1591
    Senior Member 7om's Avatar
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    Is that the end point to all of this then, Russia takes eastern Ukraine as their own and it becomes “disputed” and we all go back to normal petrol prices? Putin doesn’t actually want all of Ukraine, does he?

  42. #1592
    Won the Old Board Lewis's Avatar
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    Pretty much. I think the current frontlines won't be a million miles away from the new border once you add the rest of Donetsk.

  43. #1593
    Senior Member Bernanke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewis View Post
    Pretty much. I think the current frontlines won't be a million miles away from the new border once you add the rest of Donetsk.


    HIMARS are by all accounts already tearing the Russians a new one (I'm teeing that one up for you), and they are adding 3-4x capacity of that combined with the M270s, so we'll see how that works out in the coming months.
    Last edited by Bernanke; 10-07-2022 at 10:58 PM.

  44. #1594
    Won the Old Board Lewis's Avatar
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    They are liable to have more effect now (which they are doing) than once they have dug in, because then you can better disperse your equipment and remove their function.

  45. #1595
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    Gas prices soar as Russia cuts German supply https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62318376

    Russia really are on the ropes here…

  46. #1596
    Won the Old Board Lewis's Avatar
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    They bealing is quite revealing, like sanctioning us back is somehow unfair and an unreasonable escalation.

  47. #1597
    The Artist Formerly Known as Taz
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    It's a truly laughable state of affairs.

    "Critics accuse the Russian government of using gas as a political weapon."

    Cretins are swallowing this up whole.

  48. #1598
    Senior Member Spikey M's Avatar
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    It is a bit lol. Or it would be if WW3 wasn't the end result of this shit going tits up.

  49. #1599

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    The BBC comment section is especially gammony. West must stand firm against Russia comments getting loads of upvotes and the sensible ones saying this will end around a table are getting laughed out the room.

  50. #1600
    Senior Member Boydy's Avatar
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    At least when the nukes start falling we won't have to worry about the price of gas.

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