The thing Al Jazeera put out earlier about Iron Dome intercepts was straight-up knowing disinformation. Both sides can play that game.
The thing Al Jazeera put out earlier about Iron Dome intercepts was straight-up knowing disinformation. Both sides can play that game.
Oh yeah, there's no doubting that. They are both doing their propaganda. Just one seems to be aiming for hospitals, churches and the likes a bit more.
I've reached the point with all of this stuff where I trust almost none of the 'analysts' who seem to have gone from Medical Research Experts to Eastern European Troop Movement tacticians and now are posting stuff like 'This is clearly fake, Hamas operatives don't talk like that'. So I just go by feel, so considering that everyone from the top of the military down has been calling for blood and wanting to kill anything even related to Gaza so badly that Paul and his mate Jimmy 5 Bellies have had to go into hiding. Israel probably did it.
C4 doing Allah's work throughout the last fortnight.
Does it really matter? They're doing so much heinous shit in the open, there's no need to quibble over what they might (definitely did) have done. They're bombing civilians using the route they told them to use for fleeing, ffs.
This is where we need an actual Prime Minister, not a manlet that accidentally fell into the job. We are so obviously going to end up on the wrong side of history at the moment.
Last edited by Spikey M; 21-10-2023 at 08:28 AM.
It kinda does as I think Israel being shown up here will make it impossible to back them without being outed as a wrongun.
As I'm learning more about this I can't help but feel we're in a situation where both sides do appalling things, but the lines are drawn on whose side you should take by other factors that aren't really much to do with bombing hospitals or gunning down ravers at a festival.
I say this from a still largely uninformed perspective, which is a bad thing on face value, but maybe also be a good thing in the sense that I can cut through all the bullshit as I'm yet to pick a side and be swayed by any of it.
Your thoughts are welcome so I may continue my journey.
I think it's delusional to expect any western leader to do anything but back Israel.
Is it even possible to have an 'informed perspective'? I certainly don't.
I'm sure the Palestinians are far from perfect in much of it, but it does always have the feel that they were the collateral damage for post-war western guilt regarding the holocaust and then transitioned into the victims of ongoing ideological rivalry.
Probably should have just created the Jewish State in the Rhineland, or, I dunno, given them Southern Italy if they wanted an arid vibe. At least there would have been a link between the taking of land and being one of the 'bad guys' - I appreciate this is obviously a fairly stupid idea.
Israel see themselves as progressive whilst bombing the shit out of their neighbours thanks to the greatest military in the world. All while claiming persecution.
They're genuinely horrible people. Think of how people perceive South Africans, but worse.
They were offered Vietnam but turned it down.Originally Posted by niko_cee
The problem from the Palestinian sympathy point of view is that it's not a very long journey between condemning Israeli government actions and wanting the state of Israel destroyed, or, and this is the Hamas position, wanting to kill every Jew in the world.
Or, at least, most of our Islamist friends make that journey seem very short.
Indeed.
And as generally shit as the behaviour of the Israeli state/IDF is, and it is, they are far more aligned to our worldview than "the other team".
I see no need to take a side really. It's possible to condemn both the shelling of fleeing civilians and the terrorist attack that provoked it.
I also think this is exactly the response that Hamas wanted. They want a war so their neighbours will get involved.
As a mate of mine pointed out this week, the whole problem gets solved anyway (or worst case moved elsewhere) when the entire area becomes an uninhabitable wasteland thanks to climate change.
Quite and what I don't understand is why individuals here seem so keen to. Governments I get as there's cash money/diplomacy at stake, but why does twat drinking his mocha-choca bollocks in a London Costa need to have a black or white opinion?
Same reason he needs to have one on Brexit or BLM. He is insecure and needs to join a club.
Post-war liberalism was built on the Holocaust being the be-all-and-end-all, and contemporary leftism is mostly about worshipping brown people, so they were inevitably going to collide over this.
Yeah, the only reason anyone anywhere protested apartheid in South Africa, or the Vietnam War, was just peer pressure and posturing.
You've died on more hills than anyone on here mate.
And Jim. You've got a ridiculous opinion on everything.
That may or may not be true, but they've all been about things I have a keen interest in and at least some understanding of. I'd watched a shit load of RvN and Thierry Henry, for example.
It is true.
Than anyone? Get out.
That's going to be a long wait.
Imagine the following scenario:
You get up on Boxing Day to watch the football and coverage turns to London. 13,000 people (roughly .02% of the population) is laying dead on the streets and another 2-3 k are being hauled into tunnels.
Now, how is the UK response any different to Israel’s? Are you seriously telling me that you would all be sitting around talking about how the attack may have been justified due to the colonial past and whatnot?
Of course, it is all crazy. I remember all my fellow Americans cheering when Bin Laden got killed and just thinking: “Don’t you realize we gave him everything he wanted?” It was just piles of bodies. And the Palestinians must feel the same as the Israelis.
Who's responsible for this theoretical massacre? Rampaging picts? The Peoples Front of Diego Garcia?
"Colonial past" is quite a way to describe the current Israeli-Palestinian set-up.
To Niko: Does it in any way shape or form matter?
I say essentially the same thing to Americans but use the Palestinian numbers and side.
Last edited by mikem; 21-10-2023 at 05:49 PM.
The Science.
Not to say how Hamas initiated the whole thing was right, but Israel has been massacring Palestinians for decades now. It's nowhere near the same thing and it looks like a very simplistic way to think about things.
But even other than that, Israel's immediate response was collective punishment.
Last edited by Adramelch; 21-10-2023 at 06:07 PM.
Yeah probably. Then we'd have a concert and substantially increase immigration.
You mean like when we carpet bombed and starved Ireland when the IRA started planting bombs in our major cities?
Come on lad.
That's probably exactly what he means. He's an American democrat. Potatoes. Old country etc.
You were running an apartheid state before that which led to it though.
In the period to which you refer, wasn't 'apartheid state' the standard globally? Even within 'developed' nations?
Flora and fauna.
I'm not going to argue that. Our treatment of Ireland was disgraceful without question. But we're not discussing that, we're discussing the reaction to revenge terrorism. Which was nothing like Israels and was eventually solved(ish) diplomatically.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-67182799
We're definitely in performative shark jumping territory here.
I also very much liked the letter linked on Joshua Rozenberg's twitter this week from all the big name KCs attacking the BBC for their nomenclature rules as regards Hamas, being framed entirely within the terms of the Terrorism Act, one of the single worst pieces of illiberal legislation ever brought forward. Good to know Lord Pannick and co are such avid fans of it. I guess being in bed with the owners of City tells you everything you need to know about him.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-67181962
That might be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen.
https://uk.yahoo.com/style/colleague...184748042.html
Just appalling.
I guess, at least, they are probably still alive. Unless Israel has bombed them to death.“I understand if the college wanted to advocate for the protection of innocent children caught up in the conflict, but how could they possibly release a statement that makes no mention of the babies and children being held hostage by Hamas? I’m appalled and really disappointed.”
Last edited by niko_cee; 21-10-2023 at 09:15 PM.
We're living in a black mirror episode, we really are.
Police are always on the political spectrum. They're a tool of the state.
Lol if you think the special Met treatment is going in that direction.
Those tweets they have put out explaining that 'jihad' has several meanings in the context of an anti-Israel demonstration, and that what appear to be ISIS flags are merely... Let's see that one with swastikas. Absolutely pathetic.
Imagine being completely unaware of Israel's treatment of the Palestinians for the past 30 years. It must be nice.
Not especially.
I'm a twit
Exactly, have you seen baz's socials?
The Royal College leaderships are all full of title-chasing cunts.
I wonder if Israel realise that going about wiping out Hamas the way they are will just create a new outfit and many more radicalised people from whatever's left in the rubble?
Christ, I'm becoming latte Man.
Shut up, man.
You lot are itching to talk about it, you're just struggling to fully find a take you can act smug with.
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