We're on the side of history that's currently carrying out a genocide. Putin also being a cunt doesn't detract from that. It is possible to not take a side and be against both the invasion of Ukraine and the invasion of Gaza. I imagine most people are.Originally Posted by Jimmy Floyd
Jimmy can you change your password mate, Melanie Phillips can set herself up with her own account, ta.
Fucking making out like Israel has nothing to do with US/UK and that they're completely detached from all this
The home truths hurt.
I'm quite happy to sell Israel whatever it needs for its durable peace in the Holy Land, but we shouldn't be shooting things down for them, and I would like to know what has been authorised on that front.
Surprised so many people are on the side of Iran here.
What do you think Israel should do to return their civilian hostages, spikey?
I don’t quite get what the alternative for them for an enemy that’s buried themselves below ground and in and around civilian populations.
I agree many wouldn’t want to go to fight any Middle East based conflict, but they would if European security was under threat from an expansionist regime.
There is no good side here.
I doubt many are left alive and those that are probably aren't being best served by relentless explosions going on all around them. Firstly, the explosions could kill them, along with a load of women and children. Secondly, when said women and children are killed, what do you think happens to any remaining Jews they have locked up somewhere? Nothing good, I imagine.
Answers are to be found around a table. The current state of affairs achieves nothing but death, suffering and the continuation of generational hatred.
That doesn't make me on the side of Iran, mind. More dead civilians does not improve the situation.
I find the Iran/Israel thing fascinating because of simple geographics. How do you even practically wage war with a country you have 2-3 other countries between as a buffer? Would it just be Israel doing airstrikes and Iran lobbing ballistic missiles for months?
No country other than the US really has the ability to force project far beyond their borders, Russia has shown us that in Ukraine, the logistics just aren't there at scale.
Haven't they themselves killed more than have been released or sumshit? Let's not pretend what Israel's been doing has anything to do with hostages.
Quite. If your family had been taken hostage, would your favoured method of saving them be what Israel is doing? I doubt it.
What were the demands of hamas for hostages being released before the fighting kicked off?
Foe, lad, we are not Hamas and yesterday's attack was a direct retaliation to our consulate being attacked in Syria by these terrorists in a strike that had nothing to do with the hostages. HTH.
Just for a walk outside pal, you’re losing grip of reality.
He's completely right there. Israel struck Iran first. This has nothing to do with hostages held by Hamas.
Fucking thicko
And an embassy at that, which you'd think is a bit of a no-no.
Wasn't it a consulate? Although I have no idea if that matters or is different. Isn't an Embassy theoretically the territory of the owning nation, whereas I guess the consulate isn't?
Painting Iran as a victim is just a startling view I wasn’t expecting to read, bar from Taz who has been demonstrating quite worrying posts for some time.
Embassy is literally next door to the consulate.
The 'who started it' discourse is so irrelevant, this is a conflict that's been ongoing between Israel and the Muslim world for 75 years, as Palestine fans were very keen to point out with the 'this didn't start on Oct 7' rhetoric but seemingly less so now.
For what it's worth I don't think Iran is the victim, and as Jimmy says it's something that's been going on for decades, but Israel definitely can't play the victim card either, which is what they've been doing so far.
As I said earlier - there is no good side here. And both sides can’t see it that way.
Both sides think God is on their side and the other side has stolen their holy land. I doubt there's a long term workable solution that would make everyone happy. So yeah, this is the Middle East for centuries to come, most likely
That said, in this particular conflict it could be argued that only one side has committed what could described as several war crimes, and that's why people tend to be generally more against them (rather than supportive of Iran).
I’m not sure fighting an enemy hidden underground in and around civilian populations lends itself to much that has been governed under the rules of war previously.
It’s a hideous situation for everyone and the civilians are the ones most hurt. In my view, that’s not to say the “aggressor” in that area is entirely in the wrong. They believe their anctions are being dictated by their enemy strategy.
They've been hitting hospitals, UN facilities, charity organizations and whatnot. While I am certain Hamas is taking advantage of all that, and Israel are using that as their excuse, that doesn't mean it's justified.
Serves the fucking "non-aggresors" right for hemming themselves into such a well-fortified defensive area with the population density of London and then inviting a bombing campaign by being all "non-aggressive".
Foe, what info have you consumed to arrive at such a position? Fascinating to study how a seemingly objective person gets to where you've found yourself in today's climate.
What's a reasonable civilian to militant kill ratio in a situation like this would you say? And what ratio do you think Israel has operated on so far? The answer is known, I'm just curious what you consider to be proper "rules of war" in this case.
As I articulated earlier, I don’t think there’s a norm for this scenario, it seems a bit unprecedented. I’m no history buff though, you tell me similar scenarios in history and educate me on what would be acceptable for militants hidden underground amongst densely populated civilian populations. Whether you agree or disagree with what’s been unfolding, I think it’s unreasonable to classify one sides actions as war crimes when in reality it’s cause and consequence together by two baddies and the civilian population caught in the middle.
But hey, that’s just my take. I have no skin in the game and would prefer it was all resolved around a table which appears to becoming less and less likely.
It's defo war crimes. However, war crimes are determined post hoc by the winning side in a conflict so more or less a meaningless term in practice, as with all aspects of international law.
Didn’t someone already try that?
Well not Israel but you get the point.
Last edited by Luke Emia; 14-04-2024 at 08:19 PM.
I genuinely have no idea what we're doing or why.
Usually 'follow the money' is an adequate answer, but even that on this occasion stretches the bounds of credibility.
The lord clarifies the logic here:
I think we just do what America say and America are a bit weird about Israel because that's where Baby Jesus was born.
Not sure that's why they're a 'bit weird about Israel' but whatever.
Might not be the best tactic to just do what America is doing in this instance given the potential returning President's stance on it all is let them sort themselves out.
Unless and until we rebuild any kind of military, following America is the only option.
Well, that and the geo-politics of keeping the region at just the right level of instability for their own self interests.
The Arab nations don't get on that well, to be honest. Take Israel out of the equation and they'll just squabble along sectarian lines.
"Middle East crisis live: Israel violated international law with attack on Iranian diplomatic building in Syria, says UN"
In the words of Rishi, that's not very helpful.
But Iran were meant to be in the wrong...
"Russian President Vladimir Putin has said that further escalation in the Middle East could have "catastrophic consequences", during a phone call with his Iranian counterpart Ebrahim Raisi.
In a readout of the call, the Kremlin said Putin expressed hope that all sides would show "reasonable restraint" and "prevent a new round of confrontation fraught with catastrophic consequences for the entire region".
The Kremlin added that Iran had requested the call.
The two countries are close allies. Separately, Russia is believed to be co-operating with Iran to improve its modern air defence systems and fighter jets in return for the military support Tehran has given Moscow in its war with Ukraine."
US confirms that Israel has bombed some locations in Iran.
Fuck everybody. War mongering cunts.
Don't call me a war mongering cunt.
Say it with me, "Israel has the right to self-defence".
Seems like drones from within Iran rather than any missiles or anything. And I think they exploded in the air. Seems a nothing attack but hopefully we can tell the boys in Lebanon to up the ante a bit.
America have yanked the leash here I think. It's a nothing attack that allows Israel to say they retaliated and Iran to say "pffffff is that all you got". Everybody... erm... wins?
Hold up, lil Rishi has something to say. He should do these things sat behind a desk really. Atleast he could sit on a few pillows then. Bless.
Edit: Oh, he's just pretending to care about disabled people, never mind.
Some tasty scenes from theIranChinaRussiaUS student campus protests of protesters for human rights getting battered by the state. Bibi calling them all anti-semites and likening it to Nazi Germany, Rafah invasion to come, new hostage video claiming Israel have killed 70 of them and leading to unrest in Israel, my don spitting pure fire here:
Belgian aid worker and 7 year-old son bombed today (the brown sort so meh).
Their time is coming to an end. Hold tight my Palestinian donnies, 1967 borders and collapse of the West incoming
I suppose we should probably be thankful that you're constantly predicting the fall of the west and laying prostrate at the feet of Vlad and Xi et al, given your general track record in other fields.
Where's those PSG predictions you were upping for the first few months, big man?
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