I don't even know any more. Isn't the whole fighting on the east done by amateur separatists that just get Russian backing? If he wanted that slice, he'd have sent his own guys with them.
I don't even know any more. Isn't the whole fighting on the east done by amateur separatists that just get Russian backing? If he wanted that slice, he'd have sent his own guys with them.
Much of what Ukraine had to start with has been smashed up, and what they have had success with up to now isn't going to be much use on the offensive if they want to expel Russian forces from the breakaway areas. If Russia are parked up in those bits then they can set up air defences etc. to blast any new aerial equipment out of the sky, and then they can keep probing/flattening elsewhere until whatever ends up happening.
Twitter reckons there's heavy fighting in Kherson and the Russians are no longer in full control.
This is all well and good, but if 'The West' refuses to accept any resolution where Ukraine cedes territory [as this would be viewed as rewarding Russia's aggression] and therefore keeps going with the sanctions what's the next step then? Insisting on everyone wearing one of those stupid hats whilst making their [imaginary] rouble payments?Originally Posted by Lewis
How seething do you think Graham Linehan is that he didn’t make the cut in Putins cancel culture speech.
He was crying on the Nolan Show on BBC1 NI on Wednesday night.
His my wife left me stuff is the saddest thing I've ever heard. Graham, she left you because you were trying to catfish trans kids on Tinder. That's not cancel culture.
Was he doing that to shag them or give them a stern telling off? Both?
The problem will be if territorial 'concessions' conflates Crimea and the separatist areas. Taking non-NATO status as the absolute baseline, Russia would sell the separatists out (provided they get certain cultural/political guarantees) if it absolutely has to, as in they are about to fall to pieces without a quick deal; but it won't let Crimea go, and will go down swinging over it.
The long-term sanctions picture is the interesting one. In theory, if Ukraine signs a peace agreement with them then who are we to sanction them? The peace agreement would presumably have to be accompanied by Western guarantees to drop [most of] the 2022 sanctions as part of them endorsing it.
Top bods going missing and being killed left right and centre.
Purges are just another day in Russia.
Going to plan.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/li...0867da372193de
Gammons fake newsing their way to comfort.
I think it was more just being addicted to arguing on twitter that sealed the deal.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60886295
No CJ. The answer's no. Not unless you brought them with you."If you're not fighting in someone else's street, does it end up in yours? Do my kids become a target? Do my mates' kids?"
Some chain reactions to Russia being shit
The Azeris also cut off gas and power to an entire region of Armenia then tried to claim the Armenians had done it to themselves.
More winning.
This is probably what he wanted.
The day it started I said they would eventually retreat back to their priority areas. I think they wanted Kiev, rather than the big convoy being some sort of clever distraction to draw forces away from the South East; but once they got in a position to assault it (flatten half of it and accept its surrender - they weren't going to fight building-to-building) the Ukrainians had reinforced it so much that they didn't fancy it, what with everywhere else being harder than expected, so it ended up fulfilling that role anyway.
'No plan survives contact with the enemy' and all that. Meanwhile, the peace talks are slowly going the Russian way. Non-alignment is in the bank, and they are open to some (admittedly unworkable at this stage) arrangement over Crimea.
Worth it for completely tanking their global standing and uniting all of Europe against them?
Most of the planet isn't even arsed, but yes.
Lewis, you're not playing ball with the Western narrative here.
What does Russia see as the danger of Ukraine joining NATO anyway?
A massive border they could station troops along. At the moment they only share a Nato border with Latvia and Estonia.
Plus missiles and missile defence systems. They should have called this the 'Ukrainian Missile Crisis' from the off and played for sympathy.
NATO aren't gonna attack them though are they?
@Lewis too.
Not likely, but still. You can't have these people in your front garden if you want to pretend you're a serious country.
We obviously don't think so, but if Russia, China, Japan, Korea, etc. Made a Treaty Organisation designed entirely around the objective of a unified response to British aggression, and they spent 50 years moving through Europe - despite promising not to - signing up Poland, Germany, Switzerland, etc, you would get a bit edgy. Especially if Ireland and France wanted a seat at the table too.
Sounds like us and the Protocol get them fucking BOMBED.
The thing I don't get about all the just as planned big brained bullshit [cf page 1 where there is some pretty lolworthy shit on show] is
1 - wasn't Ukraine not joining NATO anyway?
2 - haven't they 'agreed' to tether their neutrality to a public vote/referendum? Also, didn't Russia sign some sort of International treaty saying they wouldn't attack Ukraine so lol at anyone standing by that propsect as some sort of cast iron guarantee of anything.
The Budapest Memorandum [1994]
1. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the Final Act of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe, to respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine.
2. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, and that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self-defence or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.
3. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the Final Act of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe, to refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by Ukraine of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind.
3 - wasn't Russia in de facto control of the 'separatist regions' anyway?
Seems like a lot of effort to go to for a land bridge to Crimea, which no one is going to accept as Russian [both Crimea and the 'land bridge']. Couldn't they just have built something over whatever bit of water separates in from the rest of Russia?
The stuff about putting neutrality to a referendum will surely have to be junked, and I'm not sure who will be willing to guarantee it as well. You can't stop fighting a war today on the proviso that the voters endorse it three months from now. Matey will have to sign the country up to it, like an old fashioned peace treaty, and then live or die off the result.
'Guarantees' are worthless, as has been seen in this conflict. That might extend to NATO article 5, we've not really seen it tested have we?
Obviously there are quite a few reasons to take another course of action [not least pressure from 'the west' to end this thing asap] but hopefully the Ukrainians go full banzai and either fight for, or insist in the peace, on the full return of all their former territory, plus Sochi and that nice gaffe Putin has down that way.
Edit - a quick google to find out where the fuck Sochi is tells me they already have a road bridge to Crimea. What the fuck are they doing?
Last edited by niko_cee; 29-03-2022 at 10:18 PM.
The NATO stuff is the "reasonable" side of his argument, but in reality Putin is just a Boomer that wants things back as they were during his prime, isn't he? He wants Ukraine because they had Ukraine. It's like a negative of Brexit. Fuck consequences.
Last edited by Spikey M; 29-03-2022 at 10:24 PM.
I called them 'guarantees' earlier in the thread, but, having since read more about it, the Budapest Memorandum was very clear about not actually guaranteeing anything. They just agreed to recognise current borders, gave their best wishes and didn't back them up, which is why the Ukrainians aren't making too big a deal about it now (and Russia will just call this self-defence anyway).
NATO Article 5 was invoked after 11/9, although half the countries then proceeded to phone it in in Afghanistan, refusing to leave their compounds or fight in the dark and all that, so maybe it hasn't been properly tested.
It'll be interesting if the Finns actually make moves towards joining, because that's a hell of a long border as well as easy striking distance to St Petersburg.
I think we will be joining. Us and you guys will join Nato together before the year ends.
The Russians have left Chernobyl, apparently because hunkering down in radioactive land isn't the best idea.
The Ukrainians seem to have managed to send two helicopters 40km into Russian territory to take out a fuel depot. The Russians are a complete shambles if that's true.
I assumed this would be referring to some sort of sortie into Russian occupied Ukrainian territory, but it was into actual Russia? Both quite funny and slightly alarming.
Belgorod. Actual Russia.
All part of the plan.
Russia getting all indignant about it is funny.
You could lol yourself to death with that one.The alleged strikes do not create "comfortable conditions" for peace talks, Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov says
Ukraine probably know they're winning and can win some more yet to get into a better spot for talks.
The geezer running their strategy (Arestovich? Something like that) is having some war.
You wouldn't want to be the fella that had to tell Putin about that Ukrainian attack, would you?
"Mr Putin, please do not Novichok the messenger here, but..."
I think it's spelt Abramovic.
Worth noting that this has also happened to the Russians before, it ended up with the Beslan school siege/clusterfuck.
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