Coronavirus Death Thread

[Spikey M]

Who has benefited?

I spent about half an hour on the phone to a completely broken man last week. He bought out his old employer at the back end of 2019, and has been unable to trade pretty much ever since. He pumped every penny he had into the business, but it's now completely insolvent. He has no money, the stress has ruined his marriage and he awaits the bailiffs.

That is not an unusual situation either. I have had many conversations like that over the last year.

THAT is where my tax money should be going.

[randomlegend]

Who has benefited?

Idk, the thousands of people who would be dead?

Find an ITU nurse and talk to them about their experiences. Perhaps that would open your eyes a bit.

I don't need/want/deserve a payrise for the last year and am not asking for one. But the poor nurses who found themselves looking after an entire ward of 36 respiratory patients on their own absolutely do.

[SvN]

I like how RL took the moral high ground and refused to engage, and then pretended he hadn't posted that 20 minutes later and carried on

[Ian]

It's long since become clear he can't help himself.

[Lewis]

You can't set pay and conditions off a blip year like this. They'll all be back to standing around chatting and guzzling biscuits whilst pensioners die of thirst before long, and then any pandemic uplift will look a bit irresponsible.

[Dquincy]

I agree with Spikey and RL.

[Spikey M]

1) We're right back to the role of the NHS.

2)My man sacrificed everything he ever worked for, for your benefit.

[randomlegend]

I like how RL took the moral high ground and refused to engage, and then pretended he hadn't posted that 20 minutes later and carried on

I wasn't trying to take the "moral high ground" really, I just think that's the truth of it.

And yeah I know I'm a child and I can't help it.

[randomlegend]

1) We're right back to the role of the NHS.

Just because that's the role of the NHS doesn't mean you shouldn't recognise extraordinary work within it.

2)My man sacrificed everything he ever worked for, for your benefit.

For my benefit? How?

[Spikey M]

I wasn't trying to take the "moral high ground" really, I just think that's the truth of it.

And yeah I know I'm a child and I can't help it.

Obviously, and I'm saying what I consider to be the truth of it. We have clearly had very different years that have seen us interacting with people suffering in very different ways.

And because of that, we're probably both right and probably never going to agree.

[Don]

Nursing and all that fluffy shit is a vocation and one that's received reasonable pay increases in recent years and has them at a respectable level so it's really not that deep. If they wanted to make it rain I'd suggest they ought to have thought a bit more before undertaking the significant training because they are most certainly in the wrong field.

[niko_cee]

Should soldiers get paid more if there's a war on? Do they do danger money?

[Spikey M]

For my benefit? How?

So the NHS didn't get overwhelmed. But as said, we'll never agree, best to leave it there.

[randomlegend]

The idea that because you chose to go into nursing/teaching/whatever means you should just accept literally ANYTHING that is thrown at you in those fields no matter how unforeseen or difficult is ridiculous.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The private sector is a results business in terms of pay and the public sector (generally) isn't, that's the difference and why the two come to blows with each other, especially when you get thicko union reps in the media like the teachers currently have.

[randomlegend]

So the NHS didn't get overwhelmed. But as said, we'll never agree, best to leave it there.

Errr, lol? You weren't doing that for us.

It would suck for us if we'd reached the point people literally died because we didn't have capacity to treat them, but it would suck for them more.

[Spikey M]

That's some top leaving it right there.

[Magic]

I think the best bit is most of us stayed at home to make their workload even lighter than usual. Pathetic.

[Lewis]

Should soldiers get paid more if there's a war on? Do they do danger money?

You get extra for being deployed and what have you, but not extra again if you report strong opposition or have to work overtime. Now that the old final salary pension scheme is a thing of the past the real money in the military is in losing your arms and legs or getting serious brain damage. Don't let the sob stories you read about the cost of handrails and walk-in baths fool you.

[Foe]

I’ve a nurse on Snapchat who occasionally sends me messages of her cleavage in scrubs.

Top profession and they should be rewarded handsomely.

[Dquincy]

https://twitter.com/hughlaurie/statu...330411011?s=20 ">View Tweet

Edit: well I've nailed that.

[7om]

Some infuriating calls to Jeremy Vine on radio 2 just now. The Unison woman demanded that this 1% rise not only go to nurses. But we need to include the porters, cleaners, admin staff as well. When Vine mentioned the people who have lost businesses she gave it the old, “well we need the nurses for our NHS to run”. That’s true, but how does Big Dave, whose business has gone under, now pay his mortgage?

The next caller then said this low pay rise will directly affect patient care. Because nurses will retire early, leaving less nurses in hospitals and thus patients will suffer. Can that be true? It sounds like extreme mental gymnastics to express outrage.

[Don]

Sounds a possibility. Market economics innit, all those skilled and dedicated nurses are going to flood the financial industry, take all the jobs and leave all the Bertrams and Horatios on the dole and without a health service.

[Spikey M]

I just can't fathom the priorities of the argument. It's purely emotional. Nurses have had a shit year, give them some money. Cool. Sounds great. But the country and swathes of its people are kinda sorta Bankrupt and we might want to make that right first.

[Yevrah]

If you accept 1% is a bit small, you then have to ask, what is fair? 4%, 5%?

Apparently not.

The Royal College of Nursing (RCN) called this "pitiful", arguing that its members should get 12.5% instead.

[7om]

Jesus fucking Christ. I don’t anything about politics or economics but how are we supposed to afford that? Why even suggest it when it’s so outrageous?

[Pepe]

I also want to get paid more.

[Yevrah]

I assume it's an opening gambit and in reality they'd be happy with less, but it's such a ridiculous opening gambit it really only leaves lolling the whole thing off as the response.

[Pepe]

They should give a raise to the nurses by docking the pay of all the teachers that refuse to go into the classroom.

[Yevrah]

I also doubt public will be on their side for very long if they continue to go down that road. Sure some people have had it worse than others, but nearly everyone has suffered in some way throughout this. Millions of people have lost a year of their life protecting people from a virus that statistically offered little threat to them, for example. What price do you put on that?

[Pepe]

But yeah workload has never correlated to pay.

[Don]

These people have had to watch countless fatties die. I hereby argue a pay cut of 2.5% should be enforced.

[Yevrah]

But yeah workload has never correlated to pay.

One of the most frustrating things I encounter in my career is people who hold the mistaken belief that bonuses should be linked to hard work. It's nonsense of the highest order.

[niko_cee]

I assume it's an opening gambit and in reality they'd be happy with less, but it's such a ridiculous opening gambit it really only leaves lolling the whole thing off as the response.

I presume their case would be no real terms increase in pay for 10 years (and actually a 7% drop or somesuch in that time period).

Nurse and doctor pay is always a lolworthy thing though. Didn't the last round of significant 'pay increases' (whenever they were, I seem to recall it happening at some point) come at the cost to those bursaries to help young people train to be nurses?

[Yevrah]

I also doubt public will be on their side for very long if they continue to go down that road. Sure some people have had it worse than others, but nearly everyone has suffered in some way throughout this. Millions of people have lost a year of their life protecting people from a virus that statistically offered little threat to them, for example. What price do you put on that?

In fact, let's test it. What would the good people of TTH have to be paid to have another year like the last?

[Don]

I literally was paid a 5 figure sum in terms of savings. I'm not sure I'd agree to anything below about triple that if you're asking me to go again for a second consecutive year.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I'd want 50 grand tax free to do it all again. Then again people go to work in Saudi Arabia (basically the same thing) and are paid that many times over to do so, so perhaps I'm underselling myself.

[-james-]

I can't wait for lockdown to be lifted so that I can get back to spending five rather than seven evenings a week staring at screens indoors.

[randomlegend]

I just can't fathom the priorities of the argument. It's purely emotional. Nurses have had a shit year, give them some money. Cool. Sounds great. But the country and swathes of its people are kinda sorta Bankrupt and we might want to make that right first.

So if your business did well out of the pandemic, that's the private sector you get to make lots of money, but if your business failed because of the pandemic isn't that just the other side of the coin? It's just a "blip year" after all.

I don't really think that but I don't see how you can argue one without accepting the other.

[randomlegend]

In fact, let's test it. What would the good people of TTH have to be paid to have another year like the last?

I'd do it again for what I'm paid, it was aight.

Edit: oops quoted wrong post, fixed.

[Jimmy Floyd]

How many businesses have done 'well' out of the pandemic? Must be almost none.

[Spikey M]

So if your business did well out of the pandemic, that's the private sector you get to make lots of money, but if your business failed because of the pandemic isn't that just the other side of the coin? It's just a "blip year" after all.

I don't really think that but I don't see how you can argue one without accepting the other.

Supporting struggling people / companies whilst others do well is not a new idea.

[randomlegend]

Amazon.

[niko_cee]

Games Workshop, Supermarkets.

Although haven't most who have said they'll repay/not take the government support widely on offer?

[Dquincy]

Supermarkets
Food suppliers/manufacturers
PPE companies
Hot tub companies (ask Yev)
...There are more but I cannie be arsed.

[Spikey M]

Delivery companies and steaming services have both had amazing years. They really should be the focus of whatever taxation they want to use to get us out of this.

[Dquincy]

http://news.sky.com/story/nursing-un...-rise-12236607

The word 'strike' has been mused re the nursing pay rise. Now that would set the cat amongst the pigeons.

[Ian]

Delivery companies and steaming services have both had amazing years. They really should be the focus of whatever taxation they want to use to get us out of this.

Also anybody who knows Matt Hancock.

[Spikey M]

Also anybody who knows Matt Hancock.

Them too.

Are we yet to discover the engineers behind his incredible shrinking understairs toilet?

[Lewis]

The supermarkets have done more for the ninety-nine per cent of people who haven't needed nurses over the year, so why not tax them and give the real key workers their due?