Hyde Park twatfest should be good. I'll be there.
Hyde Park twatfest should be good. I'll be there.
Hopefully they get the water cannon over from Northern Ireland again.
It’s always the right wingers being idiotic and antisocial, isn’t it? Left-wing idiocy extends to about as far as insisting on paper straws, which is cute, but the righties seem always to be living in an Ayn Rand fever dream
Our senior right wingers a nonces. George Pell and Alan Jones loved abit of grooming over the years.Originally Posted by mugbull
I can get on board with people opposing the lockdown if they want to (though I don't necessarily agree), but anyone who is into anti-vax should be summarily imprisoned, and I'm serious about that.
I'm realising at the moment that the government in this country has made a big mistake this week which is to officially state that money is more important than love, this I think will be its ultimate undoing.
My mate is anti-vax. I bet he gives his baby a fucking vaccine though the hypocritical shitstain.
All the League players will bend the knee.
Wouldn't he then, by definition, not be anti-vax?
You could say these values are flexible.
Vaccines should be mandatory and forced if necessary.
Also, anyone who has refused on their childs behalf and said child has gone on to suffer / die from a preventable disease (or gives one to someone else that does) should face criminal charges from child neglect to manslaughter.
The more stupid the belief, the less flexible it is.
If you don't give your kids vaccines they should be taken into care. It's literally exactly the same as either threatening to, or actually beating them.
You're in your mid-20's and you're faced with the choice of having a vaccine that's been rushed through or taking your chances with a virus that probably won't do much to you personally?
It's going to be a nightmare. An absolute nightmare.
I take that point. This is more difficult because of the rushed nature of it, so I can understand the concern to an extent. I'm talking more generally.
They're not going to put something into mass use before it's been tested. These people might bungle the admin side of things but they're not trying to kill you.
And it's funny how we set our values on things. We're probably all in favour of vaccines on here, primarily because they protect people. Which is exactly what the lockdown and CCTV also offer, but both of those have had plenty of dissenters here over the last couple of weeks.
They don't have to be trying to. People make mistakes. And let's be real on this, those publicly flying the flag of science on this one have had an absolute shitter so far.
I'm not saying I agree with people not taking it, I'm not saying I won't take it, but that doesn't mean I can't see that there will be a fuckton of people who won't go near it unless forced.
You can eradicate a disease save for one person who refuses to get vaccinated, they get the disease, and then they re-spread it throughout society. I wouldn't really care that JimBob doesn't want a vaccine if it didn't mean that suddenly everybody else was now at risk due to his obstinacy
Lol @ Mahow using the Covid vaccine to justify his diet autism.
If you need me to go through the list I will. But just as a starter for 10. The WHO, the World Health Organisation advised against closing airports and borders when this thing was just getting going.
And I'm the one who gets a Harold emoji. You couldn't make it up.
Isn't this because everything requires balance (ie utilitarianism reigns supreme)? Vaccines are, as far as I know, by and large extremely positive with few negative consequences. The cost-benefit analysis is massively one-sided.
Shutting down society and/or permanently spying on everyone probably has a much greater level of malignancy associated with it, hence why they are different.
I personally don't think vaccines should be mandatory, but I think the state should strongly disincentivise that choice - say by making eligibility for public schooling conditional upon it? It is a bit tricky though, people are allowed to have idiotic beliefs, unfortunately. I suppose in the medical consent area Jehovah's Witnesses aren't allowed to impose their idiotic beliefs on their children (in terms of not allowing things like blood transfusions) so maybe you could say vaccines are similar to that.
Is that how it works though? Don't you need a lot more that 1 person to spread it - and isn't the spreading only to those who aren't vaccinated? Hence why we try to stop the spread of the MMR illnesses because those who can be badly affected (the very young) can't be vaccinated fully until they are 1 or 2?
As to Yev's other point about people being wary of vaccines - isn't this one essentially going to be a type of flu jab? Are there any known or even alleged issues with existing coronavirus vaccines? Not Bill Gates wants to chip your blood or big pharma want to secretly sterilise everyone.
Just watched someone visit HK from France.
Self testing, 8 hour isolation until results in the airport, if negative big orange lanyard to say so, if not 14 days isolation. GPS bracelet for tracking and government written App that runs 24x7 and sends all data to govt. Mandatory masks. Alerts authorities if you break any quarantine or lockdown rules.
Sorry but inject the Corona in to my veins if that's the case.
This is exactly right.
There was a fawning documentary on Channel 4 last night about how the Koreans have dealt with it (similar to the above but more so). Trust me, I know these people inside out, if we start pinning their way of life up on the wall as some sort of ideal we are truly fucked. Glass ceiling for women in society, no one is allowed to answer back to anyone older than them, highest suicide rates in the world... there is nothing good to come of it.
That assumes that if we adopt those measures temporarily we'll somehow be stuck with them for life and morph into Korea as a result.
Ankle tagging the population and making them put their symptoms (even if none) into an app three times a day? It's just not going to happen unless the people are already of a certain mindset.
Why?
Income Tax and the Official Secrets Act were temporary measures brought in during times of emergency.
That’s a fair point, but then you see the countries that instituted bans on incoming travel from China the earliest, like the US, being hit the hardest of any of the countries. The primary reason why they recommended against closing borders - and I’ve heard this from plenty of non-WHO affiliated scientists - is because they knew that any disease, by the time its brought to international attention, has already spread far and wide. What’s the point of closing your borders when you’ve already had it within your borders for a month, at least?
That being said, there are cases where it’s imperative to shut it off, like in Northern Italy where all the textile workers came back from Wuhan in droves in February and resulted in that really shocking couple of weeks.
In summation, yes the scientists have fucked up, but is there any “group” of people who have done a better job as a whole? I don’t think so
It's not something I've given a great deal of thought to (so probably isn't that logical or consistent), but it represents a level of state intervention into an individual's personal affairs that strikes me as excessive. I don't know if it's just because of the physical nature of it. Obviously the state gets to intervene in all sorts of things to limit FREEDOMZ! Parental consent for kids obviously muddies the water as there is probably a stronger case for compelling vaccination, as it is in the interest of the kid, even if the parents don't agree. Ideally I'd prefer people to make sensible decisions.
I don't think it'll happen either, but then I also don't think we're going to be mandating vaccines.
The US haven't really been hit hardest, their deaths per 1m population are much better than the big hitters in Europe, almost half. And surely the point is it makes it easier to track, trace and eliminate what you already have if you're stopping more virus coming in. Now I know that wouldn't have helped much with our generally shambolic response to this, as even now we seem light years away from getting to that stage, but we'd have had fewer deaths, up to 17,000 fewer if we'd mirrored the US' deaths per million as a result.
Didn't Italy ban travel before US? Hardly a comparison to say we should have followed the US and we would have kept our numbers to their levels.
Spoke with my boss today, going back on the 26th May. Three of us going back from a team of 20+.
All sorts of new risk assessments and guidelines to follow.
Is the US not positively affected by the amount of people living in the middle of nowhere and loads of people who just never go anywhere?
That's purely my own speculation, I haven't read anything about it.
They did it at an earlier time in the year I think, but not at an earlier stage of the virus by the look of things.
And I agree, closing borders doesn't necessarily mean we would have had fewer deaths, but then it also doesn't mean the US don't have fewer because they did.
Sure it will be to some degree, but they've still got a fuckload of densely populated and shockingly poor areas.
You can't compare deaths per million directly. If you could, then you could make the claim that if you followed Sweden's strategy of no lockdown you'd have 30% fewer deaths. Which is obviously horseshit. In New York it's worse than in London, and in all the sparsely populated hinterland it's ok.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52650159
You can see why Dortmund are so well-run with intellect like that behind the wheel. The sooner this kind of rhetoric becomes commonplace the sooner the mongs can stop shitting themselves.
Yeah, course, missed a potentially at the end of my last post. Shouldn't have been appearing to assert that as fact.
On the flipside though, nor can you claim the US have been hit hardest of any of the countries based on their overall death toll.
This is it. In all likelihood, the main takeaway is one we've known about since The Plague; The more people your city has, the more trouble you're going to have.
Understand - unfortunately I think sensible decisions aren't always sensible for everyone. The anti-vax story is compelling (Did you know Bill Gates wants to kill everyone?!)
I think vaccinations are one of those utilities are mandatory. I mean I speak as someone who doesn't get the flu vaccine every year so unless it's mandatory, I have limited interest.
Three days with no new cases here!
14 days clear here.
[/tempting fate]
I think I was vaguely aware of this previously, but the coronavirus crisis has certainly shone a light on it. It's definitely one of my favourite parts of the conspiracies.
Excuse me?
We are gonna buy half of Virgin Australia.
Is it not the case that those choosing to not be vaccinated compromise the herd through both posing a risk to vulnerable people unable to be vaccinated and also allowing the virus scope to mutate through new infections which can render the vaccination ineffective?
Plus, Vaccines rarely last forever. In some cases it's only a year. If we vaccinated against COVID, we'd either need to do so like we do with the Flu or completely knock it out like we did with Smallpox.
But, even if we did take the Smallpox route, you'd do well to exterminate it before it mutated enough to make the vaccine non-effective AND it's still knocking about in Bats etc.
I'm not so sure that it's the city size that's the biggest factor (though it's still a massive factor once the virus has arrived). China has something like 70 1m+ cities, it's more the transfer of people in those cities. New York and London have a bazillion people arriving into them from around world everyday, whereas Chongqing and it's 30,000,000 inhabitants receive about 7 international visitors a week.
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