The All New Jobs Thread

[Raoul Duke]

The word "process" is generous - there isn't one really. For the last three frond end developers, I've just posted on the usual jobsites/twitter/our own website and then interview. There's no parameters that determine a successful interview - it's largely down to "vibe", with their skillset being secondary (unless they're completely under qualified). If the interview goes well, we ideally get them in for a day to see how they fit in (we pay them for this), set them a few basic tasks and then if all is good, hire them.

Sounds like you might have hit a few duds, but you could perhaps standardise your evaluation criteria somewhat. It matters less if you're hiring juniors but it can't help to have a bit of rigour around it.

For a start you could do a screening call to find out if they're idiots before you get them in. If it's a development role, depending on the level, there are some common whiteboard or coding exercises they could do. Do you have a CTO or Lead Dev who can help assess technical quality?

The other thing to think about is your on boarding and reviews process. How do you get them up-to-speed and contributing? How do you give them feedback as they're getting started?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Over to you, Giggles.

[phonics]

Sounds like you might have hit a few duds, but you could perhaps standardise your evaluation criteria somewhat. It matters less if you're hiring juniors but it can't help to have a bit of rigour around it.

For a start you could do a screening call to find out if they're idiots before you get them in. If it's a development role, depending on the level, there are some common whiteboard or coding exercises they could do. Do you have a CTO or Lead Dev who can help assess technical quality?

The other thing to think about is your on boarding and reviews process. How do you get them up-to-speed and contributing? How do you give them feedback as they're getting started?

I think with any design agency, you're never going to have a better than 70% success rate. You can put in all the parameters in the world and it won't change much.

I believe Google did an investigation on their own hiring practices and found an exact success/fail rate of 50%.

edit: The above stat is fake news. Sorry. I conflated the Google report with the general average which is between 40-60%

Google say they have an 86% success rate but they're not only picking from the absolute cream of the crop but each interview is interviewed 4 times by 4 separate people. You'd be half a team down for a week for every hire you made at that point.

edit2: SvN, do you need a designer? I'm reliable and looking to come back. You already know all my flaws.

[Giggles]

Over to you, Giggles.

Eh?

[phonics]

Jimmy wants you to call him a nonce for talking in HR about 'standardizing evaluation criteria'

[Giggles]

Jimmy wants you to call him a nonce for talking in HR about 'standardizing evaluation criteria'

Funnily enough that was the exact point I zoned out and stopped reading. If I wanted to see a grown man fellate themselves I could find a video somewhere.

[Danny]

We used to have potential new hires field a basic accounting test. If you had just finished school it should be a breeze. If not, recruiting gave you high level prep anyway. That used to filter out serious duds, until we were told we couldn’t make people do it anymore.

Since then we have expanded the interview process to have people meet their “peers” in the role they are applying for. Too many people have opened up ‘too much’ and had themselves counted out almost instantly by saying some dumb shit.

[Baz]

My team at work are about to launch a new “campaign” but are still trying to come up with a name. They’ve made mock posters with twitter handles on but haven’t actually registered any of them, because I don’t know. Tempted to register all the leading candidates and put a goatse profile pic on them.

[SvN]

Sounds like you might have hit a few duds, but you could perhaps standardise your evaluation criteria somewhat. It matters less if you're hiring juniors but it can't help to have a bit of rigour around it.

For a start you could do a screening call to find out if they're idiots before you get them in. If it's a development role, depending on the level, there are some common whiteboard or coding exercises they could do. Do you have a CTO or Lead Dev who can help assess technical quality?

The other thing to think about is your on boarding and reviews process. How do you get them up-to-speed and contributing? How do you give them feedback as they're getting started?

To be fair, the three that all left were juniors - perhaps that's the problem. I do like to train people to do things our way rather than trying to convince them that their way isn't how we want them to do things. Purely on about front end development here by the way - so HTML/CSS mostly, with a bit of JS.

At the interview stage, I'm more interested in their attitude, willingness to learn/respond to feedback and general intelligence to be honest - skills can usually be taught at the level they're working at, providing they have at least minimal experience.

They're trained by one of the lead developers and he's also in the interviews with me - he has his say on the candidates, and to date we've never disagreed. Once they're hired, we do monthly reviews for the first 3 months then quarterly reviews after that for the first year. I'm not entirely sure on the ongoing, less formalised process for feedback because I let the lead dev handle that, but I do know that they have weekly code reviews for the first month at least.

[Jimmy Floyd]

My boss just asked me if I'd go clean shaven to our trade fair (I currently have a shortish, reasonably neat beard as I have since I joined the company. Think very long stubble, trim once a week sort of beard). I'm not sure if it was a serious request or some kind of test, but I said I would not go clean shaven as this is how I choose to look. He just said 'ok' and booked my flights.

Not sure about that one.

[Ian]

It sounds like he either just doesn't much like proper facial hair or just doesn't think yours constitutes an actual beard.

[Spikey M]

There goes that raise you wanted, hippy.

[Danny]

And while you are at it, shave those sideburns.

[Foe]

And while you are at it, shave those sideburns.

Brilliant.

[Baz]

Just received an e-mail sent to me and a few others, with a list of actions to be completed by certain people by certain dates.

One of them is aimed at the stupid 50 year old woman who does next to no work, yet constantly takes credit for the work done by me. A lot of it. All the time. I hate her. It says ‘when you’re back from your weeks holiday please can you show BA (me) how to do mail merge letters.’

Are you fucking kidding me?

[Giggles]

Just received an e-mail sent to me and a few others, with a list of actions to be completed by certain people by certain dates.

One of them is aimed at the stupid 50 year old woman who does next to no work, yet constantly takes credit for the work done by me. A lot of it. All the time. I hate her. It says ‘when you’re back from your weeks holiday please can you show BA (me) how to do mail merge letters.’

Are you fucking kidding me?

It surely wouldn't take long to come up with a plan to destroy her. Get on it.

[Baz]

I’m open to suggestions.

I’ve started putting a white B in cell B69 of all my spreadsheets, where possible. Small steps.

[Spikey M]

Step 1, take credit for what you've done. Email your manager telling them what you've done that she's taking credit for.

Step 2, tell them if you already know how to do something.

Step 3, stop being so moist.

[Baz]

Her and my manager are practically best mates, so it's a fine line.

[Mike]

Will she know how to mail merge? If not play dumb then let her mate know she couldn’t show you but thankfully you already knew.

[Baz]

She definitely will not.

Hopefully I can find a way to let everyone know she failed but it’s okay cos I already knew, without having to pretend I didn’t know. If that makes sense?

[Offshore Toon]

Just act like you don't know much about it, so you'd like her to show you how she does it as you think you could learn from her. Then when she shits the bed, make out like what you know is pretty obvious, standard stuff and she'll look like even more of an idiot.

[Offshore Toon]

The woman who sits next to me, whose life is a constant tragedy, had a bit of a 'mare again this week. The highlight was on Wednesday when she was sat with her head in her hands for about ten minutes at her desk, so our manager went over and asked if she was alright, to which she muttered "my toes are cold."

[Giggles]

She needs to just fucking end it at that stage.

[Offshore Toon]

Pretty much, yeah. Everybody has tried to help her but she never follows through with any advice, so she just cycles through these episodes (she does have it pretty rough tbf) and at this point we all just kinda ignore it and get on with things. The worst time was when she was lying in the corner of the room with her eyes closed just whimpering for an hour or so. I've told her time and time again to just go home when she feels like that, but I guess when it happens so frequently she'd only be in half the time and that creates different issues.

[Shindig]

Problem is, if she took time off for it, she'd barely be in. We have someone like that who's on flexi. Since she came back from a stint on the sick, she's never seen past 3:30pm. And she wonders why she's skint.

[Smjffy]

Today I went from commis chef to chef de partie. :-D

[SvN]

So you get to set the time on the microwave now?

[Mazuuurk]

Those things sounds like wanky titles used in French political parties.

[Baz]

[Spikey M]

Our daughter gets called our Sous Chef and she's fucking shit. Food all over the floor, all over her face, in her hair, everywhere. And she's in a superior position to you Smiff. You must be truly awful.

[mo]

Interview tomorrow for Head of History job. Trying to think positive, but it's now just dawned on me that this may well make it 3 for 3 if I don't get the job. I can hear the start of the phonecall and know how these things go. Hard to take constructive criticism when you've just been told you weren't up to scratch.

But I don't think I can prepare any further really. Got a night without the baby so will hopefully get a decent night's sleep at least.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Good luck. My mate was going for an assistant head job recently (or something of that ilk), lost out to someone else internal, and was a bit despondent as he doesn't think he'll ever move on from head of year 7, which he currently is. I said Jesus, you're twenty-six. Which he also is. From the outside I'd guess it can take you down unexpected roads.

[phonics]

I don't think we had a head of year under the age of 40 let alone a department but I guess turnovers so high you assume you'll be Headmaster by 40 these days.

[Spikey M]

This is my old Head of History, and he also went on to Deputy Head status after my time.

and

This is my old Head Teacher. He went on to be a Governor and a Magistrate after my time.

There's two strategies to see you reach the top. Both have their risks, granted, but, yeah, you know, have you considered hitting/noncing the kids?

[niko_cee]

From my piecemeal understanding of the education employment advancement system you either have to be an insider or to be (effectively) moving sideways to get jobs. I've a friend who recently became a head where he did whatever training it is you have to do to become one (not the school he was an assistant head in) after unsuccessfully applying for numerous other head teacher roles. I think he, somehow, lost out to the same candidate on more than one occasion for those jobs, which seemed a bit mental.

Edit, or the above. Dark side ftw.

[Panda Bear]

@SvN, regarding your hires:
1) the pillock was always a pillock, and you were probably too nice about it;
2) tossers who can get 4 jobs in 18 months never present as tossers until they've already tossed; and
3) when you mentioned the homesick girl, I thought you meant she lived in like... Birmingham and moved to Southampton for the job rather than moving all the way from Poland. that's a huge leap.

that just sounds like luck rather than hiring practice

also

do you guys allow for the whole "can terminate without cause in first three months of employment" thing

[Panda Bear]

@mo

aren't you in your early to mid thirties? if you don't get the position, you're still fine going forward. in all likelihood, you're probably just perceived as being too green/young because ageism

[phonics]

This is my old Head of History, and he also went on to Deputy Head status after my time.

and

This is my old Head Teacher. He went on to be a Governor and a Magistrate after my time.

There's two strategies to see you reach the top. Both have their risks, granted, but, yeah, you know, have you considered hitting/noncing the kids?

It's wild that I left the UK so long ago that there literally aren't stories online of the various abuses teachers committed.

[SvN]

@SvN, regarding your hires:
1) the pillock was always a pillock, and you were probably too nice about it;
2) tossers who can get 4 jobs in 18 months never present as tossers until they've already tossed; and
3) when you mentioned the homesick girl, I thought you meant she lived in like... Birmingham and moved to Southampton for the job rather than moving all the way from Poland. that's a huge leap.

that just sounds like luck rather than hiring practice

also

do you guys allow for the whole "can terminate without cause in first three months of employment" thing

All three points are correct, but I just wish I was better at judging people. Although deep down I never felt 100% on any of them to be honest - but that was also true about the last successful hire, who has turned out brilliantly. I've already replaced the latest leaver with someone who's graduating Uni in June, and I feel very good about it - so she'll probably resign after a week.

And yes, we can terminate with one week's notice within the first 3 months.

[mo]

Good luck. My mate was going for an assistant head job recently (or something of that ilk), lost out to someone else internal, and was a bit despondent as he doesn't think he'll ever move on from head of year 7, which he currently is. I said Jesus, you're twenty-six. Which he also is. From the outside I'd guess it can take you down unexpected roads.

Yeah I mean at 26, he's less experience than I am (by a year). I'd say age is against him becoming a senior leader at the moment.

I don't think we had a head of year under the age of 40 let alone a department but I guess turnovers so high you assume you'll be Headmaster by 40 these days.

Our head who just left was 45-ish, in post for 5 years and had been a head elsewhere before for a couple of years. A lot of HoDs at ours are early 30s, but granted more experience than I am.

This is my old Head of History, and he also went on to Deputy Head status after my time.

and

This is my old Head Teacher. He went on to be a Governor and a Magistrate after my time.

There's two strategies to see you reach the top. Both have their risks, granted, but, yeah, you know, have you considered hitting/noncing the kids?

Only read the first link properly and it made me feel unwell. Hitting some of them has briefly flashed across my mind but, you know, it's just too high-risk a strategy.

From my piecemeal understanding of the education employment advancement system you either have to be an insider or to be (effectively) moving sideways to get jobs. I've a friend who recently became a head where he did whatever training it is you have to do to become one (not the school he was an assistant head in) after unsuccessfully applying for numerous other head teacher roles. I think he, somehow, lost out to the same candidate on more than one occasion for those jobs, which seemed a bit mental.

Edit, or the above. Dark side ftw.

Much like any other industry, it can often be a case of 'who you know'.

@mo

aren't you in your early to mid thirties? if you don't get the position, you're still fine going forward. in all likelihood, you're probably just perceived as being too green/young because ageism

This is true. I am 33, and with 5 years under my belt, not as experience as others my age. Average age of school leaders is likely 10/15 years lower than what it was when we were at school due to retention issues and lack of decent recruitment strategy.

All in all, I feel a lot better. A bit like when you think you've just gotten a major fault in your driving licence, I feel a bit like the pressure is off, so maybe I'll relax and proceed unimpeded.

[Foe]

My job is changing at some point in the next few months. Probably going to be worse too so I'll hopefully look for other roles. Be interesting to find out whether I'm allowed to leave though.

[Giggles]

@SvN, regarding your hires:
1) the pillock was always a pillock, and you were probably too nice about it;
2) tossers who can get 4 jobs in 18 months never present as tossers until they've already tossed; and
3) when you mentioned the homesick girl, I thought you meant she lived in like... Birmingham and moved to Southampton for the job rather than moving all the way from Poland. that's a huge leap.

that just sounds like luck rather than hiring practice

also

do you guys allow for the whole "can terminate without cause in first three months of employment" thing

Someone moving from Poland isn't that big a deal. I don't think there's anyone left there at this stage.

[Foe]

A good proportion of them are hotties so let's be inclusive.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I deal with the Poles on a daily basis and there isn't a better nation of people out there. Zero fucks given, zero bullshit, they just get on with it.

Apart from the Kubica online fans, who are clinically insane.

[Giggles]

I deal with the Poles on a daily basis and there isn't a better nation of people out there. Zero fucks given, zero bullshit, they just get on with it.

Apart from the Kubica online fans, who are clinically insane.

Definitely. Abrupt and straight to the point. Makes them a dream to deal with.

[Spikey M]

I've never met a Pole who wasn't decent. Our IT technician is Polish and he's great. The first time I met him he was talking about the IT crowd and just kept saying 'Cheese Burger' over and over again. I've either not seen the episode or I'm missing the reference, but I enjoyed the inversion of him schooling me on British TV.

[phonics]

The Dutch are similar in their no bullshit approach but also want you to do everything their way and any other angle you'd like to approach the issue from is deemed 'crazy' or a waste of time. Which is annoying but you work around it. However, the amount of 'this guys a fucking idiot' or 'did you hear about this person, doing x, so bad' they told me makes me assume they were saying exactly the same stuff about me when I wasn't there.

[bruhnaldo]

I've never met a Pole who wasn't decent. Our IT technician is Polish and he's great. The first time I met him he was talking about the IT crowd and just kept saying 'Cheese Burger' over and over again. I've either not seen the episode or I'm missing the reference, but I enjoyed the inversion of him schooling me on British TV.

i feel like i've watched that show at least 4 times completely and have no fucking idea what "cheese burger" is in reference to

[phonics]

i feel like i've watched that show at least 4 times completely and have no fucking idea what "cheese burger" is in reference to

I don't think it's a reference to anything either. I think he was just calling Spikey a greasy cunt. Also, foreigners seem to fall in love with random words like they're funny to say? I went to uni with an estonian bloke (total weirdo) that was similar.