UK General Election 2017 - 8 June

[mikem]

Between Picketty tracking wealth creation in Europe and the group studying intergenerational poverty among African Americans and Hmong migrants two things are clear. Capital has reinforcing principles. Groups also stay mired in poverty if they are unable to generate transferable wealth and are unable to weather shocks. Doesn't matter if you deny the poor access to capital through regulation or market forces. It is still denial. So I deserve your "what" for saying I'm more lefty.

I'm fine with the government providing housing, but I'd prefer if there were also options where the poor could own their own housing. I'd need to see a single long term historical example where the ruling class did not end up taking advantage of the people to believe in any utopias. I'm utterly ambivalent to how any of it would work. Wealth transfers through government paid mortgages, housing vouchers, whatever. Any old hammer will do. None of it is going to happen because everyone treats the underclass as tokens on a board.

[Pepe]

Who is against the poor owning their own houses?

[mikem]

I misconstrued your asset comment then.

[Pepe]

Don't know. I do have an issue, in principle, with people profiting from houses. I don't think that no one should own a house, or that it should be illegal to sell it for more than you paid for. When people buy/rent/sell housing with the sole purpose of profiting, then it gets a bit sketchier, in my opinion.

[Spammer]

Why's that?

I own a house now and intend on renting this out and buying another once I've got enough equity/savings to do so. I'll make sure the house I'm renting out is in good condition and will only be looking to cover my own mortgage/insurance costs because I see it as a safety net that I can rely on to sell or live in if something were to go tits up in other areas of my life. As far as I can see, someone will be getting a house at a decent rental level and I'll be ensuring my financial future.

Maybe if I owned 30 houses and didn't give a shit about their upkeep or the tenants so long as I get as much money as possible, then yeah that's a bit shit. I'd prefer to be more personable and be decent about it though, and I don't really see a problem with that.

[Reg]

Why's that?

I own a house now and intend on renting this out and buying another once I've got enough equity/savings to do so. I'll make sure the house I'm renting out is in good condition and will only be looking to cover my own mortgage/insurance costs because I see it as a safety net that I can rely on to sell or live in if something were to go tits up in other areas of my life. As far as I can see, someone will be getting a house at a decent rental level and I'll be ensuring my financial future.

Maybe if I owned 30 houses and didn't give a shit about their upkeep or the tenants so long as I get as much money as possible, then yeah that's a bit shit. I'd prefer to be more personable and be decent about it though, and I don't really see a problem with that.

Personally, I think what you're doing is alright but it's the super-rich who buy property in London knowing they can take the piss with rent that doesn't sit right. Especially at a time when there's many in need of housing.

[Lewis]

This Brexit documentary reveals that Nigel Farage is actually David Brent.

[Jimmy Floyd]

This Brexit documentary reveals that Nigel Farage is actually David Brent.

Didn't you know who suggest as much in his recap?

[niko_cee]

Personally, I think what you're doing is alright but it's the super-rich who buy property in London knowing they can take the piss with rent that doesn't sit right. Especially at a time when there's many in need of housing.

This doesn't happen though, does it? I mean, the super rich firstly don't need the rental income, and secondly, aren't going to be getting it off housing benefit bods even if they do fancy some, are they?

Unless I'm misunderstanding your complaint and you're really just not a big fan of the Duke of Westminster lolling at anyone who wants to live in Belgravia, to which there is an eminently easy solution.

[Bam]

If you're only going to only cover the mortgage and insurances in rent, basically no profit, how will you cover the upkeep for the property? @Hammer

[Spammer]

If you're only going to only cover the mortgage and insurances in rent, basically no profit, how will you cover the upkeep for the property? @Hammer

Sorry I just wasn't being detailed in my explanation. I'll factor a bit in to cover that too - my point is that my priority is simply to charge enough to cover the general running costs and upkeep of the place.

[Bam]

I take it you do know how much it cost to upkeep a property?

I'm only saying this as it seems you have a very naive view of how the rental market works, if you want to keep it a decent condition that is.

[niko_cee]

Monster!

He'll obviously just charge a market rent for it, and see if that covers costs, and if it doesn't either sell it, or stick more in himself.

[GS]

Plus taxes to buy it, potential tax on the rental income depending on the extent of revenue generation (if any after costs), and the tax you're going to pay if you sell it.

[Reg]

I mean foreign buyers who don't live here, by the way.

Led by investors from Hong Kong and Singapore, foreign buyers snapped up 3,600 of London’s 28,000 newly built homes between 2014 and 2016

More than 70% of the homes bought by foreigners were as rental investments

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...st-time-buyers

I'm not saying it's the only reason for high rent, more stating that morally I don't think it's right.

(edit: @niko)

[Bam]

Monster!

He'll obviously just charge a market rent for it, and see if that covers costs, and if it doesn't either sell it, or stick more in himself.

Well that sounds like a cracking way to fuck up. You have to run it like a business otherwise you may as well give it away.

[niko_cee]

No point arguing with a mogul. Or do you prefer 'magnet'?

[Bam]

I'll have magnet. Thanks student, or do you prefer soap dodger?

[niko_cee]

I thought you would.

Over a decade since I've been a student, although I haven't showered in several days, so you've got me there.

[Bam]

I thought you would.

Over a decade since I've been a student, although I haven't showered in several days, so you've got me there.

Well your looking at the rental market from a students point of view. I'm only offering Hammer some advice that doing what he's looking to do won't work.

[Spammer]

I take it you do know how much it cost to upkeep a property?

I'm only saying this as it seems you have a very naive view of how the rental market works, if you want to keep it a decent condition that is.

Maybe it's you that's being naive, seen as you're going off like this without knowing anything about my situation

I really haven't crunched the numbers yet as it's a good 3-5 years before I'd need to think about it, as I've only just moved into the place myself. I'm not sure what's naive about it though. I'm going to start renting two of the rooms out while living in it myself which will cover the vast majority of the monthly mortgage and bill payments, so I’ll be able to overpay a fair amount on the mortgage over the next five years and can expect a reduction in the monthly payments eventually as a result. If I need to rent it at the standard rate in order to cover for everything then yeah, that's what I'll do.

[Bam]

Well you made it sound a lot different in your original post.

But yeah, you're even more naive if you think that's all going to work out without any life changes.

[Spammer]

I wasn't very detailed in listing every cost associated with renting a property out to someone. Other than that, I'm not sure what you're on about. The only point I was making is that my main interest in it is the long-term financial security involved in building up equity in it. Of course I'll make sure I cover all my costs.

[Bam]

you seem to have got a bit mighty about buying your first property, concentrate on upgrading to the house you want before getting into the renting market.

[niko_cee]

Should have ended that with a 'son'.

[Bam]

Was that your student mate?

[niko_cee]

Yeah, you know him? He's the one buying most of those London new builds.

[Spammer]

you seem to have got a bit mighty about buying your first property, concentrate on upgrading to the house you want before getting into the renting market.

As I said, it'll be another 3-5 years before I even think about it properly.

Eejit.

[Yevrah]

Dimbleby.

Worst audience ever.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I was thinking that. Has politics just turned into a violent shouting match now?

Absolutely no thought going into anything from either audience or participants (except for Oborne who has gone stark raving mad), just maniacally shouting down people you don't like.

Come back 'You sold them weapons!', all is forgiven.

[Lewis]

I think once Brexit has gone through we should all retire from caring about this stuff.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I've definitely come round to your thoughts about 15 years of Corbyn communism being worth it for Brexit.

[Magic]

you seem to have got a bit mighty about buying your first property, concentrate on upgrading to the house you want before getting into the renting market.

[Lewis]

For what it is worth, I reckon the next Conservative leader will see Jezza and Co[mmunists]. off anyway.

[Jimmy Floyd]

There are 3 key things in our advantage, which are:

a) he's shit
b) he's thick
c) he's old, which means he won't be around forever, and will the communists have the same pull without his cheery homeless hugging? I don't think so.

[GS]

He's also terrible in the Commons, and his MPs still think he's absolutely shit. He had a good campaign, but that was largely on the back of May unraveling and a manifesto that promised everything.

I suspect the number will prove soft as people are reminded that he's not actually very good, and they maintained an almost admirable vagueness over Brexit which won't stand up when vote after vote is going through the Commons.

That said, I do think the Tories need to get back to the economy. Plenty of positives to highlight, and they can't assume for the next time that they've basically got that argument won and locked down. If it was still in play, Jez would have been lolled out of the campaign.

[phonics]

Ah the 'Conservatives are going to win a 100 seat majority' crowd are back on their bullshit. Only took 2 weeks.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It was one of those elections where any other Tory would have stuffed Corbyn, and any other Labour leader would have stuffed Theresa May.

[phonics]

If they had someone that could easily stuff him as you put it, there'd be an election right now.

And the latter is just complete bollocks, you think there would be such a turnout for Owen fucking Smith?

[GS]

The question should almost be how Labour only managed to scrape back to 2010 levels, especially when you look at the absolute state of the manifesto and May's campaign.

[phonics]

Because Scottish Labour are dogshit.

[Jimmy Floyd]

If they had someone that could easily stuff him as you put it, there'd be an election right now.

And the latter is just complete bollocks, you think there would be such a turnout for Owen fucking Smith?

Corbyn is one of those leaders who, were he right wing, would be called 'divisive'. Some love him, but millions hate him and everything he stands for. Those same millions won Labour three elections just a decade or so ago. Impossible now.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Because Scottish Labour are dogshit.

The Lib Dem collapse balances that out. By turning to Cable they will become entirely Labour-facing too.

[phonics]

Corbyn is one of those leaders who, were he right wing, would be called 'divisive'. Some love him, but millions hate him and everything he stands for. Those same millions won Labour three elections just a decade or so ago. Impossible now.

The amount of Labour voters who hate Blair is => those who hate Corbyn.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Yeah but Blair attracted habitual Tories as part of his winning coalition. Corbyn will never do that.

If he does go on to gain 70+ seats at the next election for a majority then fair play but inhabiting the south as I do, I really don't see thousands flipping for him unless the Tories get really significantly worse than they already are (eg. hard right loonies win the leadership).

[Lewis]

My theory is that it ought to be easier for the Conservatives to win enough Southern fannies back/over to form a majority than it would be for Jezza to get a million decent people on side. I don't see the need to think about it beyond that, but I think it rests on not letting Boris 'Boris' Johnson have anything to do with it.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Short of Ruth coming down from the north like Mance Rayder, I can't think of anyone charismatic enough from the current crop other than Boris.

If Spreadsheet Phil gets the gig I'll just give up and vote Labour.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Also, having been into the M&S Food Hall this lunchtime (which is basically Tory HQ) I'm not feeling many Ruth voters in there, which is a shame because she's the best by miles.

[phonics]

I think you're over-rating Boris' charisma. It was entertaining on HIGNFY 15 years ago, it's rather tiresome at this point. Death by over-exposure.

[Lewis]

Hey, it's Brexit Day today. God that will never be topped.