They've nine months to get used to the idea. We were never not going to trigger it. Just sit there and seethe in silence with an 'I told you so' ready, just in case.
They've nine months to get used to the idea. We were never not going to trigger it. Just sit there and seethe in silence with an 'I told you so' ready, just in case.
There's been a schism in Club Harold:
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics...european-party
Nobody's qualified to vote for general elections, either. We still do it, Rich.
http://www.politico.eu/article/what-...s-from-brexit/
A good read this, and does very little to dispel my belief that they are all going to cave in like the flimsy continental folding chairs that they are.
Cave in to what?
I saw Ed Balls' wife on the news saying that security concerns should not be a 'bargaining chip' (such a crap term) because they are serious bizness. Yeah right, love. I said ages ago that we should threaten to leave NATO, and having President Donald J. Trump over there appearing not to know how it works would only increase its effectiveness (at worst they would call our bluff and accelerate their little Grande Armee, but we could still lol at Nick Clegg and rally behind not having anything to do with it).
Isn't that precisely why they should be a bargaining chip?
Sure it might not pass the eye rolling and 'This country.' test, but in terms of actual real world stuff.
You would like to think it's just fannies being fannies, wanting us to turn up armed with 'Keep Calm' memorabilia and continued access to iPlayer, but there must be a couple of actual people (rather than just Ian Dunt) wanting it to fail.
Of course it should be a bargaining chip, as should the rights of EU citizens living here.
What sort of wanker walks into a negotiation and immediately concedes the point on everything we can offer before DEMANDING they do us a favour on everything else.
That said, our membership of any EU-based structure lapses the second we leave unless there's a new bilateral agreement to replace it. So if we can't get a trade deal as part of that worth signing in place, there won't be a deal and we'll automatically drop out of everything anyway. All Theresa May needs to do is turn up in Moscow and meet Putin, and the eastern European countries will shit themselves and concede the point across the board.
I'm watching the back end of Newsnight, and Michael Heseltine is actually in mourning. On Norman Tebbit's birthday as well.
This is a decent panel tonight, but Len McCluskey is clearly delusional.
To be fair, it took him an hour to get onto "we should tax the rich more" so you have to admire the level of restraint he's shown.
Wrong account?
It's possible I was being sarcastic.
This nonsense on workers' rights is fucking stupid as well. It's your standard line of treating the public as if they're thick.
My grandad got a right seethe on during the referendum campaign when the unions were claiming the European Union was responsible current workplace protections, as if it somehow diminished his seventies copper filling in exploits.
It's evidently complete bollocks, but it's not as if these nutters are ever going to concede the point on it. They'd need to find something else to strike over.
lol at Spain giving it the large'un over Gibraltar. We should set up some sort of Oliver North gun-running scheme between us, Morocco, and all of their loser separatists.
I assume the remain mob were straight onto Twitter to complain about the EU attempting to blackmail us by threatening to torpedo Gibraltar's right to self determination?
Can you imagine if this was a Boris Johnson government? It would be an absolute fucking circus.
A load of people desperate for the Empire comeback only to lose Scotland, Ireland and Gibraltar within 2 years of the thing would be a hearty lol.
I missed the Empire comeback advert. Was it on the bus?
Looks like the EU are being their usual intransigent selves, so this is going to suck bigly. And what the fuck else did people expect?
@Lewis, you see that YouGov poll mate? THE PEOPLE want blue passports and the return of lbs and oz'
The brilliance of these negotiations is that in being 1 of us vs 27 of them, it's going to demonstrate exactly why the EU is shit. But no, apparently they 'have all the cards'. They have no cards.
Peter Hitchens' Twitter feed is worth a look on imperial measurements.
It proves why we should be leaving. They're legitimately useless.Originally Posted by Henry
He buys into his own hype a bit much, but he's quality when he's having a go at the EU.
"Stay in and reform it!" indeed.
The collective (arf) left-wing BOTTLE JOB over Europe is up there with the great political bed-shittings.
"That's a nice defence budget you have there. Would be a shame if .... that was reduced by a quarter." <messes up papers on Junker's desk>
Threats of war with Spain from senior Tory scum. Oh dear.
Reclaiming a sort of Empire by battering the skint bits of Europe is a futuristic dystopia I can get behind.
No-one is reclaiming an Empire. Gibraltar has been British since 1713 (legally). They want to remain British (see the recent referenda). Either you allow them self-determination or you don't. Giving Spain any sort of specific say on Gibraltar because of a sovereignty claim is seriously suspect on the EU's part, but then it's hardly surprising at the same time.
If the Spanish want Gibraltar, they'll need to convince the people of Gibraltar that it's in their interests. The Argentinians drastically failed at this in the Falklands, and set any prospect of obtaining sovereignty back by generations.
On the specifics of "threatening war", Howard did no such thing. He said that resolve should be shown to defend their rights, which is entirely reasonable. If we weren't prepared to do that, then what would be the point.
If it came to it, we should look into passing an Act of Union that makes Gibraltar an integral part of the United Kingdom and thus bypasses any such issue entirely. We could then rescind it once we've left. It would probably trigger a national meltdown in Spain, but fuck them. It's not as if they've got imperialist positions like Ceuta and Melilla, after all.
Michael Howard always did have a gift for drawing OUTRAGE with perfectly reasonable points.
Fine, we won't invite you.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...mats-say-spain
You really do have to laugh at them.
So everyone's now losing their shit about Michael Howard 'declaring war on Spain'.
Get a fucking grip.
At least it's a change from "they're using it as a bargaining chip!".
Why is The Guardian even giving column inches to unnamed "sources" threatening the status-quo of a island that has been British for some 300 years, and 2 voted to remain so..??
Because they're still in a state of deep mourning over the result and they're desperate to prove they've been right all along.
Who? Michael Howard?
Somebody should ask Tim Farron and all the other fannies to what extent they would sell Gibraltar out to keep the European Union on side.
As a lefty, these territories are an area where I go against the grain. I love Gibraltar, been there three times and the locals are very keen to stress that they are British.
Basically if the Spanish want a go, then let them. Thatcher beat back the Argies and the army will fend off a bunch of Paella munching dickheads.
Any left-winger worth a wank should support self-determination, otherwise what even is anti-imperialism? Besides, giving the Spanish any sort of say in their affairs would be about as imperialist as it gets, seeing as we would be transferring sovereignty over the very clear wishes of the locals. In which case it seems like a basic case of simply putting European interests over British ones.
Farron and his ilk would have us concede the point on every conceivable advantage we may hold in the negotiation process. Their hope is surely that if the deal is manifestly terrible, then Continuity Remain will be able to argue in about five years' time that it isn't working and we must go back in.
I suspect some are so invested in the "project" that they would legitimately sooner see the UK collapse when we leave than succeed, because our succeeding would undermine their entire world view.
Gibraltar is a case in point. Anyone who actually believes in democracy should be outraged by the EU effectively saying that Gibraltar won't be able to exercise its right to self determination. Instead some of them have jumped onto "but she didn't mention Gibraltar in the Article 50 letter!".
Of course Gibraltar should have self-determination.
That said, you just know there's a subset of rah-rah Queen-and-Empire nationalists who are itching for a proper old-school fight with a European country, to show who rules the waves etc, and Spain's as good as any.
Souring relations with Britain, including obstructiveness over travel arrangements? Sounds like a winning plan for Spain.
I reckon Spain might be one of the only countries we have a 100% war record against. I can't think of any defeats there anyway.
Quite, they're very much ready to become a larger scale Portugal if anything happens to their tourism (which it probably will anyway).
Another thing that comes to mind is that there's no way that Michael Howard made such bellicose remarks without the knowledge and possibly instruction of Teresa May.
Regarding self-determination, that's obviously something that sane people agree with. But it has nothing to do with making threats of war against allied countries. Spain have not said that they would invade, only apparently suggested that they might block a trade deal, which is entirely legitimate.
In what way is it legitimate? Can we similarly block a trade deal because we decide to lay claim to Vigo?
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