UK company to introduce 'period policy' for female staff

[Toby]

Endometriosis is pretty common, but it's a defined condition that needs and can be treated.

PCOS doesn't cause painful periods.

Endometriosis can be managed with painkillers and serious cases helped by hormone treatment and/or surgery, but it's still a problem for a lot of women even once diagnosed. If I knew I'd be in pain that necessitated painkillers for a few days each month, I'd definitely aim to plan my work around that and avoid committing to anything particularly strenuous if possible - especially if I knew to a high level of precision when those days would occur, as most women do. Yes, there are work environments where that isn't possible, and if I worked in any of those environments I would just get on with it - but I don't see what is controversial about suggesting measures be taken where they can. It's not like it's a policy dictated from on high saying all women must stay home while menstruating, which reading Harold's IB Times article you'd almost think it was.

And it wasn't me who brought up PCOS in that context, it was the critical article put forward by Harold. I guess she was suggesting irregular periods might be a cause of discomfort.

[randomlegend]

If I knew I'd be in pain that necessitated painkillers for a few days each month

But half the population are in pain necessitating painkillers. Yeah it'd be great if everyone only had to work when they were feeling good, but it just seems unrealistic.

[Toby]

But half the population are in pain necessitating painkillers. Yeah it'd be great if everyone only had to work when they were feeling good, but it just seems unrealistic.

Ah well, no point in employers even considering it then, let alone discussing it with their staff.

[randomlegend]

I'm sure there will have been people trying to start such conversations for many years. It's the fact it's being presented as a 'period policy', as though period pain is some unique thing, which I have a problem with.

If you want to deal with these sorts of issues, do it equally.

[Lewis]

Can't we have one thread without your neckbeard MRA shit? 'Ooh I should be allowed to wear my fedora at work!' Bore off, Mountain Dew.

[Toby]

I'm sure there will have been people trying to start such conversations for many years. It's the fact it's being presented as a 'period policy', as though period pain is some unique thing, which I have a problem with.

If you want to deal with these sorts of issues, do it equally.

I'd agree with that, but as I've said to Harold, it appears to me that tagging it as "period policy" is largely an attempt to stir up some publicity and energise the debate, which it evidently been successful in doing. Once you get past the headline it's clearly not just about periods.

[randomlegend]

Can't we have one thread without your neckbeard MRA shit? 'Ooh I should be allowed to wear my fedora at work!' Bore off, Mountain Dew.

You're right, the infection control nurses are all women. Fucking matriarchy.

[Boydy]

[Citation needed]

A mod/admin should change Harold's signature to that.

[elth]

I'm so glad randomlegend is here to explain to women why they're thankless whiners who just need to fuck off to the doctor for drugs that don't work instead of blathering on about their little aches and pains. As a man, his perspective on women with chronic untreatable internal haemorrhaging induced agony is invaluable.

If only more unqualified men with no experience, education or empathy felt freer to blithely opine from their entitled ignorance, the world would truly be an amazing place.

[phonics]

What's the constant reference to office work as well, the lady seems to run a charity/exhibition space, I'm not sure she's grinding the economy to a halt by letting people have a blob break once a month.

[Lewis]

elth definitely has sympathy periods.

[elth]

What's the constant reference to office work as well, the lady seems to run a charity/exhibition space, I'm not sure she's grinding the economy to a halt by letting people have a blob break once a month.

BUT THE FLOODGATES ARE OPENING PHONICS

On a more serious note, here's a nice article on why "period leave" is bad because it's a gendered entitlement that undercuts equality and fosters resentment of women by men (this thread being a just delightful proof of argument, thanks Hazza for your predictability), when what we should be aiming for is more flexible, productive and sympathetic workplaces in general.

http://www.gadgette.com/2016/03/03/period-leave/

[John Arne]

It's an admission that women can't hack jobs, really. So imagine if this was nationwide - could you really accepot women in the army? As an employer, would a womam or a man make a more desirable employee? See, I think about the larger consequences rather the silly, perochial, emotional arguments.

If only the army had some sort of physical tests that could eliminate those not suitable to serve. A woman with chronic period pain will fail the physical test, just as much as a bloke with terrible back pain would.

[ItalAussie]

BUT THE FLOODGATES ARE OPENING PHONICS

On a more serious note, here's a nice article on why "period leave" is bad because it's a gendered entitlement that undercuts equality and fosters resentment of women by men (this thread being a just delightful proof of argument, thanks Hazza for your predictability), when what we should be aiming for is more flexible, productive and sympathetic workplaces in general.

http://www.gadgette.com/2016/03/03/period-leave/

That's a thought-provoking article.

It seems like flexible employment is often likely to improve workplace efficiency, so it's really a matter of overcoming inertia. You see that level of flexibility a lot in my branch of academia, because you can think just as well, if not better, in your comfortable home environment. As long as you get in for things like classes or meetings, people are generally fairly happy for you to work however suits you best, and the institution benefits from that.

[randomlegend]

I'm so glad randomlegend is here to explain to women why they're thankless whiners who just need to fuck off to the doctor for drugs that don't work instead of blathering on about their little aches and pains. As a man, his perspective on women with chronic untreatable internal haemorrhaging induced agony is invaluable.

If only more unqualified men with no experience, education or empathy felt freer to blithely opine from their entitled ignorance, the world would truly be an amazing place.

I'm less than a year away from qualifying as a doctor, a job I've spent 7 years training for and might yet have to give up on because of a chronic pain condition. I think I understand the issue pretty well from a few perspectives, tbh.

Edit: just read your second post, I'm such a tit

[QE Harold Flair]

[Citation needed]

Also, what is up with your spelling tonight? Have you had a stroke? Get your shit together.

You're really that lazy?

http://www.vox.com/2015/4/8/8372417/...-equality-poll


18% identify as feminists in the US, compared to 27% a few years ago. And only 8% in the UK.

[QE Harold Flair]

Endometriosis can be managed with painkillers and serious cases helped by hormone treatment and/or surgery, but it's still a problem for a lot of women even once diagnosed. If I knew I'd be in pain that necessitated painkillers for a few days each month, I'd definitely aim to plan my work around that and avoid committing to anything particularly strenuous if possible - especially if I knew to a high level of precision when those days would occur, as most women do. Yes, there are work environments where that isn't possible, and if I worked in any of those environments I would just get on with it - but I don't see what is controversial about suggesting measures be taken where they can. It's not like it's a policy dictated from on high saying all women must stay home while menstruating, which reading Harold's IB Times article you'd almost think it was.

And it wasn't me who brought up PCOS in that context, it was the critical article put forward by Harold. I guess she was suggesting irregular periods might be a cause of discomfort.

It makes you wonder how the poor women who need your help have managed for all these years, doesn't it? I guess men and women just aren't equal at all in terms of work capability. That's you saying that, not me.

[QE Harold Flair]

Can't we have one thread without your neckbeard MRA shit? 'Ooh I should be allowed to wear my fedora at work!' Bore off, Mountain Dew.

Yes, becasue any opposition to batshit feminists is 'MRA shit'.

[QE Harold Flair]

I'd agree with that, but as I've said to Harold, it appears to me that tagging it as "period policy" is largely an attempt to stir up some publicity and energise the debate, which it evidently been successful in doing. Once you get past the headline it's clearly not just about periods.

What 'cycles' do men have, then? She's not said anything about that. You're giving excuses which she doesn't even make herself.

[QE Harold Flair]

A mod/admin should change Harold's signature to that.

Yes, they should. Since I'm apparently the only one who is continually asked to back up everything. It's not hard information to find, if he was really interested.

[QE Harold Flair]

I'm so glad randomlegend is here to explain to women why they're thankless whiners who just need to fuck off to the doctor for drugs that don't work instead of blathering on about their little aches and pains. As a man, his perspective on women with chronic untreatable internal haemorrhaging induced agony is invaluable.

If only more unqualified men with no experience, education or empathy felt freer to blithely opine from their entitled ignorance, the world would truly be an amazing place.

What women really need , since they're just little wallflowers, is men treating them as such. That's what women really need.

[John Arne]

Multi-quote is your friend

[QE Harold Flair]

If only the army had some sort of physical tests that could eliminate those not suitable to serve. A woman with chronic period pain will fail the physical test, just as much as a bloke with terrible back pain would.

Those with a monthly cycle, perhaps? Otherwise known as half the population. I don't think you quite get the point I was making. In fact, I completely agree with you - those with chronic pains should not be at work. But we're not talking about those with chronic pains, are we?

[John Arne]

Those with a monthly cycle, perhaps? Otherwise known as half the population. I don't think you quite get the point I was making. In fact, I completely agree with you - those with chronic pains should not be at work. But we're not talking about those with chronic pains, are we?

What? A women can and does pass army selection all the time, even when she is having her period. I'm saying that if a woman has really bad periods, then it's likely she will fail selection anyway for such a physical job. As with any pain or physical injury. Perhaps I am misunderstanding - because I don't really get your point here.

[Toby]

What 'cycles' do men have, then? She's not said anything about that. You're giving excuses which she doesn't even make herself.

You might have more of a clue what you were speaking about if you at least opened the link in the article:

While this conversation is focused on the menstrual cycle, it forms part of a larger debate about honouring cycles in general – circadian, ultradian, seasonal etc., and cyclical consciousness as a model of sustainability – individual and organisational.

[Toby]

It makes you wonder how the poor women who need your help have managed for all these years, doesn't it? I guess men and women just aren't equal at all in terms of work capability. That's you saying that, not me.

You really are illiterate.

[Toby]

BUT THE FLOODGATES ARE OPENING PHONICS

On a more serious note, here's a nice article on why "period leave" is bad because it's a gendered entitlement that undercuts equality and fosters resentment of women by men (this thread being a just delightful proof of argument, thanks Hazza for your predictability), when what we should be aiming for is more flexible, productive and sympathetic workplaces in general.

http://www.gadgette.com/2016/03/03/period-leave/

THAT'S WHAT lS BEING PUT FORWARD

[elth]

THAT'S WHAT lS BEING PUT FORWARD

Nomenclature matters, especially in a "political correctness gone mad" environment.

[Toby]

Nomenclature matters, especially in a "political correctness gone mad" environment.

They've approached it from the perspective that as women they feel more productive while not on their period. They haven't said that applies to all women, and they haven't said the discussion should only be about menstrual cycles. Sure, people who have only read the headlines or seen the words 'period policy' in bold are upset about it, but I'd rather have one group cause a stir to get people talking about it.

[randomlegend]

If it was a men's group complaining about a problem which only affected men, it'd be neckbeard MRA shit.

[Toby]

If it was a men's group complaining about a problem which only affected men, it'd be neckbeard MRA shit.

This isn't a women's group, so it's not really a comparison that works.

[elth]

They've approached it from the perspective that as women they feel more productive while not on their period. They haven't said that applies to all women, and they haven't said the discussion should only be about menstrual cycles. Sure, people who have only read the headlines or seen the words 'period policy' in bold are upset about it, but I'd rather have one group cause a stir to get people talking about it.

The trouble is that because the framing of the issue has been set as it being a women's issue, there's a real risk that a broader quality of life discussion won't actually happen. You shouldn't give status quo vested interests such as easy out as "it's just crazy feminists and their women's issues" if you actually want to generate a debate about this kind of thing.

random - I think if it was a problem which only affected men, society just would have designed work around it in the first place and nobody would know any different.

[randomlegend]

I'm just playing with Tobes, but he's not being any fun.

[Toby]

I do think them trying to portray it as 'radical' is a bit of a nonsense, and they do seem a bit like new age bellends, but they're doing something that presumably works for them and it's got others talking in the meantime. I'd rather focus on that as a positive rather than worry what idiots like Harold think about it.

I'm just playing with Tobes, but he's not being any fun.

Sorry, it's hard to tell when you're joking about that sort of thing, neckbeard.

[Henry]

More misogynistic bullshit, or any point in reading this thread?

[elth]

I do think them trying to portray it as 'radical' is a bit of a nonsense, and they do seem a bit like new age bellends, but they're doing something that presumably works for them and it's got others talking in the meantime. I'd rather focus on that as a positive rather than worry what idiots like Harold think about it.

You obviously have a much more optimistic opinion than me on how likely Harold's idiot angle is to dominate the debate.

[Toby]

You obviously have a much more optimistic opinion than me on how likely Harold's idiot angle is to dominate the debate.

I'd already seen it discussed positively elsewhere before Harold turned up with this late-to-the-party thread. I don't expect it to become an established thing any time soon but I think it's something a lot of 'millennial age' companies would be happy to get on board with.

[Disco]

More misogynistic bullshit, or any point in reading this thread?

I liked 'bore off Mountain Dew' but the rest of it is normal Harold levels of wooly generalising and cretinous thinking.

[QE Harold Flair]

You really are illiterate.

Well no, I'm not. Women have a deficiency, according to people like you, which causes them to need to take time of work every month. Thankfully, most women don't agree with you.

[QE Harold Flair]

What? A women can and does pass army selection all the time, even when she is having her period. I'm saying that if a woman has really bad periods, then it's likely she will fail selection anyway for such a physical job. As with any pain or physical injury. Perhaps I am misunderstanding - because I don't really get your point here.

Yes, and that's the point. They do not need 'time off' from a fucking office job when women manage to serve in the army. Either women need 'period time' or they don't. If they doi, then they can't really be expected to be allowed to join the army.

[Toby]

Women have a deficiency, according to people like you, which causes them to need to take time of work every month.

Nope, try again.

[QE Harold Flair]

I do think them trying to portray it as 'radical' is a bit of a nonsense, and they do seem a bit like new age bellends, but they're doing something that presumably works for them and it's got others talking in the meantime. I'd rather focus on that as a positive rather than worry what idiots like Harold think about it.

There's a lot of feminists who agree with me on this, actually. Are they all idiots as well? They're women, remember? Be careful!

[QE Harold Flair]

Nope, try again.

So women needing time off every month (if we go along with this) are equal to men, who don't? Okay, then.

[QE Harold Flair]

You obviously have a much more optimistic opinion than me on how likely Harold's idiot angle is to dominate the debate.

The correct angle. The reason it dominates is because everyone can see how fucking ridiculous it is. Apart from the cardigan wearers here, it seems.

I'm still lolling at the woman who claims to be 'an educator in the field of menstruality'. If ever there was a female Brent, this is it.

[Toby]

So women needing time off every month (if we go along with this) are equal to men, who don't? Okay, then.

It's not a question of "needing" anything. It's that the option being there could benefit some women and therefore the companies they work for. There is no suggestion it is required or that all women will necessarily use it. This has been repeated over and over, which is why it appears that you're incapable of reading properly.

[QE Harold Flair]

It's not a question of "needing" anything. It's that the option being there could benefit some women and therefore the companies they work for. There is no suggestion it is required or that all women will necessarily use it. This has been repeated over and over, which is why it appears that you're incapable of reading properly.

Some women, right. So what would benefit the men? Women already take more time off, have more holidays and work less hours than men. Something which you seem unwilling to address.

[Toby]

Some women, right. So what would benefit the men? Women already take more time off, have more holidays and work less hours than men. Something which you seem unwilling to address.

A properly enacted flexible working policy would allow men to work around other commitments and issues in their life too. Maybe they don't like Mondays. Maybe they like staying up until 4am watching Youtube. It isn't a radical suggestion to say that in a setting where specific working hours aren't actually a necessity - and they are not for many modern workplaces - people should be allowed to work when they feel they will be most effective, as long as they are getting the work done. There's no need to 'address' your other point because it's irrelevant, and the only reason you think it's relevant is that you still haven't grasped what this proposal is actually about.

[QE Harold Flair]

A properly enacted flexible working policy would allow men to work around other commitments and issues in their life too. Maybe they don't like Mondays. Maybe they like staying up until 4am watching Youtube. It isn't a radical suggestion to say that in a setting where specific working hours aren't actually a necessity - and they are not for many modern workplaces - people should be allowed to work when they feel they will be most effective, as long as they are getting the work done. There's no need to 'address' your other point because it's irrelevant, and the only reason you think it's relevant is that you still haven't grasped what this proposal is actually about.

What other commitments? Isn't that something which already happens through holidays? It's a good job you're not a businessman with waffle like 'well maybe they don't like Mondays'. Tough shit. Who the fuck does like Mondays? All Monday is, is a name for a day. It would make no difference if your Monday start was changed to a Tuesday - you would just hate Tuesdays like you used to hate Mondays.

The proposal, as far as I can tell, is about giving women extra time off for their bodily function, for which a vast minority really need any time off. Something which could easily be addressed via lots of methods as it is, including what everone else has to do when they have a condition of some kind. I haven't seen any proposals for the men who work there.

[Toby]

What other commitments? Isn't that something which already happens through holidays? It's a good job you're not a businessman with waffle like 'well maybe they don't like Mondays'. Tough shit. Who the fuck does like Mondays? All Monday is, is a name for a day. It would make no difference if your Monday start was changed to a Tuesday - you would just hate Tuesdays like you used to hate Mondays.

Good thing I'm not a businessman, but for all the studies that have shown flexible working improves productivity...

I was being flippant with the Monday shit, obviously, but different people feel peaks and troughs of energy at different times in the day. Classic 9 to 5 working hours are a relic of the days of labouring in factories, where everybody had to be there at the same time and work for so long to be productive. With predominantly men in the workplace and women housekeeping or caring to the children. It's not like that any more, and people fit their working lives a lot more around their personal lives, rather than vice-versa.

The proposal, as far as I can tell, is about giving women extra time off for their bodily function

Wrong. Try again.

[QE Harold Flair]

I'm not wrong. Until anyone else is given regular time off for a natural bodily function I am correct.