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Thread: U.S. Presidential Election 2016 (Sponsored by Betty Croker's Hamburger Helper)

  1. #6251
    Better Than You Henry's Avatar
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    Standard operating procedure for Republicans I know, but having bitched about the deficit for so long, they're planning to assg $2.4 trillion with it with some of the largest tax cuts in history. Goes without saying that this benefits the rich almost exclusively.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry View Post
    Standard operating procedure for Republicans I know, but having bitched about the deficit for so long, they're planning to assg $2.4 trillion with it with some of the largest tax cuts in history. Goes without saying that this benefits the rich almost exclusively.
    I mean that's a gross oversimplification. The tax cuts help everybody on its surface and simplifies our tax code, not to mention the economic activity it will spur. This is great great shit, and the reason we elected Trump. Healthcare reform seems to be on the path to getting through the House as well according to the latest indicators.

    In other news I'm going to a Trump rally on Saturday.

  3. #6253
    Senior Member randomlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mert View Post
    In other news I'm going to a Trump rally on Saturday.
    https://www.amazon.com/Snazaroo-Clas.../dp/B000H6W2GW

    Stay safe.

  4. #6254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry View Post
    Standard operating procedure for Republicans I know, but having bitched about the deficit for so long, they're planning to assg $2.4 trillion with it with some of the largest tax cuts in history. Goes without saying that this benefits the rich almost exclusively.
    This is a strange piece of performance art tax plan. It is ending deductions on state income taxes and mortgage deductions. These account for a huge chunk of state's and cities' tax revenvue. It is something like $480 billion. It is hard to see how they can afford to give up that revenue.

    For individuals that means it is impossible to know how this will affect them until their states and cities weigh in. Is a 2% tax cut worth double paying on your $1,000 mortgage deduction and 2-8% state income tax?

    Very wealthy non-employees do well because the bulk of your earnings are in pass through income at 15%, but classified employed moderately wealthy people like doctors, lawyers, and tech people will pay more. In blue states and cities they are getting fucked pretty hard.

  5. #6255
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikem View Post
    This is a strange piece of performance art tax plan. It is ending deductions on state income taxes and mortgage deductions. These account for a huge chunk of state's and cities' tax revenvue. It is something like $480 billion. It is hard to see how they can afford to give up that revenue.

    For individuals that means it is impossible to know how this will affect them until their states and cities weigh in. Is a 2% tax cut worth double paying on your $1,000 mortgage deduction and 2-8% state income tax?

    Very wealthy non-employees do well because the bulk of your earnings are in pass through income at 15%, but classified employed moderately wealthy people like doctors, lawyers, and tech people will pay more. In blue states and cities they are getting fucked pretty hard.
    I haven't looked into the proposal that closely, but I thought they were just doing away with classifications between deductions without removing them as potentially deductible activities. I thought that aspect of the proposal was more of a 'stream line the deduction process' rather than 'get rid of deductions.'

  6. #6256
    Better Than You Henry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mert View Post
    I mean that's a gross oversimplification.
    It's the assessment of the Centre for Tax Policy. The effect is to bring the debt to 111% of GDP in ten years time (instead of 79% which is the current forecast) at which point it becomes unsustainable.
    Paul Ryan's magic asterisks about how it's going to be paid for (*Growth!) don't really cut it.

  7. #6257
    Senior Member GS's Avatar
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    And yet when Jez says he'll fund his £500bn investment by "growing the economy", there's not a word of criticism...

    Tax cuts are generally positive, but not this steeply and not this quickly. Volume can't plug the gap left by the sudden decrease, so it'll definitely require other funding sources (probably borrowing) to fund. A staggered decrease would be sensible, as they do have higher taxes than other developed economies.

    That said, there are certainly big advantages to simplifying the system drastically for all taxes. It has seven tax bands for income alone. So that aspect is certainly positive.

  8. #6258
    Senior Member Mazuuurk's Avatar
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    Aren't US taxes already shit low?

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    Senior Member Bernanke's Avatar
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    Not necessarily. I studied some taxation law a few years back, and corporate taxes are way higher there than in Sweden. They do have more "loopholes" though which means that it in reality it might be lower.

    Overall though, US taxes are 26% of GDP which is pretty low, but it's difficult to describe how exactly it is collected compared to other countries with different states having different VAT etc.

    Swedish taxes are 45.8% of GDP, Germany is 40.6%, UK is at 34.4%.

    Quote Originally Posted by GS View Post
    That said, there are certainly big advantages to simplifying the system drastically for all taxes. It has seven tax bands for income alone. So that aspect is certainly positive.
    Yep. We are incredibly spoiled in Sweden with a relatively straightforward tax system, especially for capital gains. The US is a mess on every front when it comes to consistency and simplicity.

  10. #6260
    Senior Member Mazuuurk's Avatar
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    Yes but then Sweden is the pinnacle of civilization as we know it, so.

  11. #6261
    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mert View Post
    I mean that's a gross oversimplification.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mert View Post
    I haven't looked into the proposal that closely
    I lolled.

  12. #6262
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    Everyone's speculation about the tax plan is just that, speculation. It is not a serious proposal; Reagan's initial tax reform bill was three 500 page volumes. I'll do Mert's research for him and post a link to what Trump's team has released:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/ZekeJMill...824131/photo/1

    Impressive, isn't it. The full text is a one page executive summary kick off meeting goal statement that is internally contradictory. And no, a simplified tax code is not achieved: there are three bands but no income markers, deductions will be removed except for the list that makes up the the bulk of what people take. The Head of Treasury was on Fox last night and got beat up because he failed twice at answering the question: "What would a family of four making $70,000 a year pay?" Treasury doesn't know, no analysts know, nobody knows because they don't know any of the details of the plan. We are all overestimating on drips of trial balloons. If they have written a bill they have not released it yet. The various research out there is based on specific questions about cutting the corporate tax rate by 10, 15, or 20% with some nonsense dynamic scoring thrown in.

    It is performance art at this point. Except that most interpretive dance routines contain more macroeconomic detail.

  13. #6263
    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    Who knew tax reform was that complicated?

  14. #6264
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    In the first piece of departmental pr Treasury referred to themselves as Commerce. These idiots don't even know what part of the government they are running.

  15. #6265
    Senior Member John's Avatar
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    I wouldn't rule out someone from Commerce being tapped to write the press release. There are still eight billion governmental positions unfilled, remember.

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    I wouldn't be surprised with either that or people in appointed positions not really understanding the difference. Staffing issues are partly a result of the R establishment not wanting to sign up. Only Mattis, Kelly, McMaster, and Haley are typical R hires. This administration is full of neophytes, rejects, and the broken toys of the Republican Party running around behind President Whoosh Whoosh Boom Boom.

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    Senior Member Bernanke's Avatar
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    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-us...-idUSKBN17U0CA

    He misses driving, feels as if he is in a cocoon, and is surprised how hard his new job is.

    President Donald Trump on Thursday reflected on his first 100 days in office with a wistful look at his life before the White House.

    "I loved my previous life. I had so many things going," Trump told Reuters in an interview. "This is more work than in my previous life. I thought it would be easier."
    More than five months after his victory and two days shy of the 100-day mark of his presidency, the election is still on Trump's mind. Midway through a discussion about Chinese President Xi Jinping, the president paused to hand out copies of what he said were the latest figures from the 2016 electoral map.

    "Here, you can take that, that's the final map of the numbers," the Republican president said from his desk in the Oval Office, handing out maps of the United States with areas he won marked in red. "It’s pretty good, right? The red is obviously us."

    He had copies for each of the three Reuters reporters in the room.
    One of the most pathetic things I have ever read. 5 months later and he is still bragging about the election, narcissistic fuck. He legitimately thought Obama spent all of his time golfing and thought it would be an easy gig.

  18. #6268
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    Why would you think being President of the USA would be easier than running a few crap companies and going on telly?

  19. #6269
    DEATH TO THE WEIRD Raoul Duke's Avatar
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    Because he's a colossal spastic?

  20. #6270
    Won the Old Board Lewis's Avatar
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    Speaking of which, Facebook touring the country meeting humans (this time at a Ford factory) is something somebody ought to put a stop to.

  21. #6271
    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewis View Post
    Speaking of which, Facebook touring the country meeting humans (this time at a Ford factory) is something somebody ought to put a stop to.
    Most def.

  22. #6272
    DEATH TO THE WEIRD Raoul Duke's Avatar
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    He's definitely going to make a run for office of some kind.

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    Won the Old Board Lewis's Avatar
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    Mark Zuckerberg vs Chelsea Clinton in the Democratic run-off, with the winner facing Rep. Mert 'Hank' Arkansas. No thanks.

  24. #6274
    Senior Member John's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewis View Post
    Mark Zuckerberg vs Chelsea Clinton in the Democratic run-off, with the winner facing Rep. Mert 'Hank' Arkansas. No thanks.


    Martin Arkansas will definitely be his 'Ethnic White' name.

  25. #6275
    Won the Old Board Lewis's Avatar
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    This speech he's giving to the gun nuts is fun.

    'Yeah, Charlton Heston... Anyway, here's why the election was better than the World Series.'

    Legend.

  26. #6276
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    I think Paul Ryan may actually be in collusion with Democratic ad makers. They are actually proposing removing the single most popular part of the ACA while keeping everything people hate. What's better is that they are exempting themselves.

  27. #6277
    Senior Member John's Avatar
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    Him bringing up the election every time he appears in public is genuinely quite likable. It's like a child reminding you of that time they told a joke you laughed at every time you see them.

  28. #6278
    Won the Old Board Lewis's Avatar
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    It's been a while since I've watched him doing one of these speeches-cum-bullshittings, and they really are good.

  29. #6279
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    I went to both Jeff Flake's townhall and the Bernie / Perez DNC reunion tour. You would have loved them for the pure spectacle. Town halls are are great because people either ask faux outrage questions or incredibly detailed policy questions. Neither of which the hapless Senator or Congress person can answer.

    And between Tom (I said shit a lot - I'm folksy) Perez and Bernie's massive corporations Tourette's that was fun too. I've never been a big Bernie fan but I had never realized he was as vapid as the rest. He called me a hero three times.

  30. #6280
    Senior Member John's Avatar
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    Trump bringing back the Pocahontas jabs seems a bit much now that he's President.

  31. #6281
    Romulus Augustulus ItalAussie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    Trump bringing back the Pocahontas jabs seems a bit much now that he's President.
    He's still campaigning in his own head. Hence the constant rallies.

  32. #6282
    Won the Old Board Lewis's Avatar
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    Permanent revolution.

  33. #6283
    Custom User Title phonics's Avatar
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    Today in holy shit they've put a legitimate moron in charge news. Trump asks why The Civil War happened.


  34. #6284
    Won the Old Board Lewis's Avatar
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    A properly lol response would be to blame it on protectionism. Failing that, Tweet 'Wow. Just wow' at him before that William LeGate freak gets on a roll.

  35. #6285
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    Trump is the guy who is surprised that so many Civil War battles were fought in National Parks.

  36. #6286
    I used to be funny.
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    "Wait a minute? If we bring back slavery .... think of the job creation."

  37. #6287
    Romulus Augustulus ItalAussie's Avatar
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    The Andrew Jackson thing is a bit creepy weird in general. He's had a bit of a resurgence amongst the right-wing over there.

    They don't want to say that it's the Trail of Tears. They'd probably call it "his decisiveness".

  38. #6288
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    Andrew Jackson is up there with Robert E. Lee among the greatest Americans that have ever lived.

  39. #6289
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    It is sad to think that Pelosi and McConnell are the only two national politicians who are good at their jobs. Neither has a policy idea or can win a majority but that is not their jobs. Pelosi may as well have written the budget cr:

    No funding for the wall.
    Planned Parenthood funding kept.
    NIH and EPA virtually untouched.
    Only a CR so they still have to negotiate the budget on a weekly basis with D support.
    ACHA has to pass the House this week or lose reconciliation. They may still pass it but only by gutting the one thing Trump promised to keep while exempting themselves from the rule. They are even cutting pre-existing conditions for employer covered plans on a state by state basis.

    Every president since Reagan has forgotten what he actually did to be successful. He traded tax cuts for funding Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid for everyone born from 1940-1980.

  40. #6290
    Won the Old Board Lewis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mert View Post
    Andrew Jackson is up there with Robert E. Lee among the greatest Americans that have ever lived.
    It turns out there was a blinding effort to find this out in 2005. George W. Bush in sixth, the somehow not dead Billy Graham, Lance Armstrong... They should do another one and kick the civil war off. I would probably go Thomas Jefferson, but you could argue that he did his best work as an Englishman.

  41. #6291
    Senior Member niko_cee's Avatar
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    There's too much to lol at on that to pick out anything specific, but then we voted Diana as the third greatest Briton didn't we?

    Still, look at the disparity between the top 10s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_Greatest_Britons

    Enoch in there at 55 for you Lewis.

  42. #6292
    Won the Old Board Lewis's Avatar
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    They would probably fix it these days, like the South Africans did with their version, so somebody like Alan Turing or Craig Charles won.

  43. #6293
    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    That list.

  44. #6294
    Won the Old Board Lewis's Avatar
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  45. #6295
    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    Go find a hole to dig yourself in.

  46. #6296
    Better Than You Henry's Avatar
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  47. #6297
    Custom User Title phonics's Avatar
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    Henry you can't just link us to your google search...

    edit: Found my way round it. That was crap.

  48. #6298
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    Looks like the $8 billion for high risk pools was enough and AHCA will pass the House today. Have to imagine that McConell has something that will pass the Senate ready.

    And of course, pre-existing conditions, even for employer based plans, are up again. For those of you who never had to live with this here is a story from my family. I've got five sisters. One is a lawyer who had excellent employer backed care. She was raped in 1998. For three years she had to pay for virtually all care out of pocket and spent up to six months fighting the insurance company for reimbursement. Why? Possible HIV infection from the rape until she had three years of tests was a pre-existing condition. Sexual assault is again on the list.

  49. #6299
    Senior Member Disco's Avatar
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    What a lovely system.

  50. #6300
    Better Than You Henry's Avatar
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    The budget climbdown is absolutely staggering.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.7872d5034fe7

    Now that the language has posted, here are the eight most notable areas Trump caved in his first big spending negotiation:
    1. There are explicit restrictions to block the border wall. We knew last week there would be no money to start construction on a project that the president says is more important to his base than anything else. But the final agreement goes further, putting strict limitations on how Trump can use new money for border security (e.g. to invest in new technology and repair existing fencing). Administration officials have insisted they already have the statutory authority to start building the wall under a 2006 law. This prevents such an end run.

    The $1.5 billion for border security is also half as much as the White House requested. Additionally, there are no cuts in funding to sanctuary cities, something a federal judge said last week would be required for the Justice Department to follow through on its threats. And there is also no money for a deportation force.

    2. Non-defense domestic spending will go up, despite the Trump team’s insistence he wouldn’t let that happen. The president called for $18 billion in cuts. Instead, he’s going to sign a budget with lots of sweeteners that grow the size of government. Mitch McConnell made sure $4.6 billion got put aside to permanently extend health benefits to 22,000 retired Appalachian coal miners and their families. Nancy Pelosi made sure $295 million was included to shore up Medicaid in Puerto Rico. Chuck Schumer got $61 million to reimburse local law enforcement agencies for the cost of protecting Trump when he travels to his residences in Florida and New York. There is also another $2 billion in disaster relief money for states, which bought a couple votes. (Kelsey Snell, our lead budget reporter, has more examples.)

    3. Barack Obama’s cancer moonshot is generously funded. The administration asked to slash spending at the National Institutes of Health by $1.2 billion for the rest of this fiscal year. Instead, the NIH will get a $2 billion boost — on top of the huge increase it got last year. Republican appropriators who care about biomedical research, including Rep. Tom Cole (R-Okla.) and Sen. Roy Blunt (R-Mo.), delivered.

    Trump also failed in his efforts to cut money for other kinds of scientific inquiry. For example, he proposed defunding the Advanced Research Projects Agency–Energy. Instead, it is getting a $15 million increase.

    4. Trump fought to cut the Environmental Protection Agency by a third. The final deal trims its budget by just 1 percent, with no staff cuts. As part of a compromise, the EPA gets $80 million less than last year, but the budget is $8 billion.

    5. He didn’t defund Planned Parenthood. Despite the best efforts of social conservatives, the group will continue to receive funding at current levels.

    6. The president got less than half as much for the military as he said was necessary. Trump repeatedly prodded Congress to increase military spending by $30 billion. He’s getting $12.5 billion, with an additional $2.5 billion if/when he delivers a detailed plan on how to defeat the Islamic State. Many Democrats from states with bases and manufacturers, especially those up for reelection in 2018, wanted this, too. Like Trump, they will tout the increased spending as a victory. The White House plans to call this a down payment on a much bigger investment down the road.

    7. Democrats say they forced Republicans to withdraw more than 160 riders. These unrelated policy measures, which each could have been a poison pill, would have done things like get rid of the fiduciary rule and water down environmental regulations. On the other side of the ledger, this budget blocks the Justice Department from restricting the dispensing of medical marijuana in states where it has been legalized.

    8. To keep negotiations moving, the White House already agreed last week to continue paying Obamacare subsidies. This money, which goes to insurance companies, reduces out-of-pocket expenses for low-income people who get coverage under the Affordable Care Act. The Trump administration justifies giving up on this because of the potential to resolve the bigger issue by repealing Obamacare.
    I'm actually pleasantly surprised at how resilient the system is in the US in resisting the worst of his plans. Trump will be wanting some sort of Reichstag Fire event soon.

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