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Thread: U.S. Presidential Election 2016 (Sponsored by Betty Croker's Hamburger Helper)

  1. #11351
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    He wouldn't, in the same way he doesn't say 'Lohs' Angeles.

  2. #11352
    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    Car loss

  3. #11353
    Senior Member Spoonsky's Avatar
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    I’ve been doned.

  4. #11354
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewis View Post
    This is partly what I meant by milking it for decades. They will condense 'Trumpism' into this, so next time somebody going for the party ticket suggests kicking immigrants about or regulating social media Mitt Romney and a bunch of bowtie war criminals will sign an open letter mewling about this.
    People toss around “Trumpism” all the time and after four years I genuinely have no clue what they are yammering about.

    In terms of Trump himself it doesn’t seem to be anything outside of narcissism / egotism. He’s difficult to describe in political terms because he doesn’t seem to have any conventional political goals. If he does, he doesn’t pursue them outside of media. Republican leadership just rolls him for their political priorities while using him to access a voting base they can’t reach.

    Of course it is a failed coup. If you attempt to set up a perception that the count is rigged or should be stopped by changing how votes are counted only in states you are closely contesting. Then you follow it by refusing to accept that there were not improprieties after 60 odd cases are thrown out at all levels. Cases in which when pressed to actually show fraud lawyers demure because they don’t want to lose their licenses for lying under oath. And then follow that up with a plan to send multiple slates of contested electors to force political pressure on the legislature to make a deal. A tactic, which Lindsey Graham of all people pointed out in a Senate speech last night, was last employed to overturn elections during Reconstruction to instill Jom Crow and create a white hegemony.

    Ok, so if it was Bolivia we’d technically call it a pact transition and not a coup. But nobody without a political science PhD knows what that is so let’s just call it a failed coup. Sure it is a dumb Wiley Coyote ACME ordered coup attempt but does that matter?

  5. #11355
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    There still seems to be a lot of vagueness around the people who died. The one lady got shot, the other bloke who tased himself, but then the other two just randomly died? /conspiracy

    Three others died after suffering unspecified medical emergencies on Capitol grounds, police said.

  6. #11356
    Senior Member Lofty's Avatar
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    Pffft that's not a conspiracy theory. Claiming the woman who was shot never existed and is a crisis actor employed by 'the directors' is a conspiracy theory.

  7. #11357
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    If they do actually sign off the thing to impeach Trump (which is a waste of time but they seem keen on it), will Mike Pence then become the 46th President in a Dönitz-esque three-day reign?

  8. #11358
    Webly Ian's Avatar
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    Yeah, it'll be a good one for the trivia / quiz boffins.

    I saw one person saying it'll stop him doling out pardons / pardoning himself but I dunno how that works (are presidential powers stopped or whatever while an impeachment is on the go?) or whether he's even likely to face prosecution after his presidency is done anyway.

  9. #11359
    Won the Old Board Lewis's Avatar
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    Following the speaking fees interference and the made-up life stories, this push to claim that the summer riots were all ruthlessly supressed is the sort of thing that in normal times would draw a bit of 'Hang on mate...' I can't remember which Twitter legend said it, but you're looking at the first administration in history backed by ninety-nine per cent of institutional authorities, and all the people who normally see 'fascism' around every corner can't get enough of it.

  10. #11360
    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    If our side does it, it is democracy. If the other side does it, it is fascism.

    I think the impeachment thing is just worth it so that he cannot run again.

  11. #11361
    Administrator Kikó's Avatar
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    I've read your post about 4 times Lewis and I still don't understand what it's trying to say. Educate me?

  12. #11362
    Won the Old Board Lewis's Avatar
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    The George Floyd mourning process caused tens of billions of dollars worth of damage (as an aside, the murder rate is up almost forty per cent in most major cities) whilst receiving institutional support from politicians, media organisations, the cultural sector, corporations, and every other twat with any social clout outside of right-wing radio personalities - and now they are all in on pushing the new NARRATIVE that the summer riots were all quickly and ruthlessly suppressed. 'Imagine if they were Black Lives Matter!' We don't have to imagine. They burned cities down, celebrities and politicians raised their bail money, and barely anyone was charged.

    Why are Chevron and Coca-Cola issuing statements about the sanctity of institutions? Institutions which, as of three days ago, were institutionally racist and not fit for contemporary purpose. Because they spent 2020 excusing and supporting violent riots from wallies who think the system is against them, so this has to be an 'insurrection' and an 'attempted coup' (which it just wasn't) to draw the line between them. This is every bit as 'fascist' as going off on foreigners and putting up trade barriers. Fascism requires the 'corporate state', and now they have one.

  13. #11363
    Senior Member Boydy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewis View Post
    The George Floyd mourning process caused tens of billions of dollars worth of damage (as an aside, the murder rate is up almost forty per cent in most major cities) whilst receiving institutional support from politicians, media organisations, the cultural sector, corporations, and every other twat with any social clout outside of right-wing radio personalities - and now they are all in on pushing the new NARRATIVE that the summer riots were all quickly and ruthlessly suppressed. 'Imagine if they were Black Lives Matter!' We don't have to imagine. They burned cities down, celebrities and politicians raised their bail money, and barely anyone was charged.

    Why are Chevron and Coca-Cola issuing statements about the sanctity of institutions? Institutions which, as of three days ago, were institutionally racist and not fit for contemporary purpose. Because they spent 2020 excusing and supporting violent riots from wallies who think the system is against them, so this has to be an 'insurrection' and an 'attempted coup' (which it just wasn't) to draw the line between them. This is every bit as 'fascist' as going off on foreigners and putting up trade barriers. Fascism requires the 'corporate state', and now they have one.

  14. #11364
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    He’s not wrong.

    Our CEO fired out a company email about it and wouldn’t be surprised if something went out externally.

    I work for a pretty energy firm and my immediate reaction was “why the fuck is he talking about that?”.

    This is the same dude who said absolutely sweet fuck all about the war in Azerbaijan despite having a considerable presence on Azerbaijan. Local staff rightly picked him up on it after he posted a global post about world fertility day or something instead. Mental.

    PR for the sake of PR. Stay the fuck out of it and concentrate on your own business. If it had impact on staff then absolutely weigh in.

  15. #11365
    Senior Member Spoonsky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewis View Post
    The George Floyd mourning process caused tens of billions of dollars worth of damage (as an aside, the murder rate is up almost forty per cent in most major cities) whilst receiving institutional support from politicians, media organisations, the cultural sector, corporations, and every other twat with any social clout outside of right-wing radio personalities - and now they are all in on pushing the new NARRATIVE that the summer riots were all quickly and ruthlessly suppressed. 'Imagine if they were Black Lives Matter!' We don't have to imagine. They burned cities down, celebrities and politicians raised their bail money, and barely anyone was charged.

    Why are Chevron and Coca-Cola issuing statements about the sanctity of institutions? Institutions which, as of three days ago, were institutionally racist and not fit for contemporary purpose. Because they spent 2020 excusing and supporting violent riots from wallies who think the system is against them, so this has to be an 'insurrection' and an 'attempted coup' (which it just wasn't) to draw the line between them. This is every bit as 'fascist' as going off on foreigners and putting up trade barriers. Fascism requires the 'corporate state', and now they have one.

  16. #11366
    Administrator Kikó's Avatar
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    Why the liberal lefties are really at fault by
    Lewis | The Spectator

  17. #11367
    Just Luca, but still a DJ Luca's Avatar
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    While I don’t agree with Lewis (the burning cities down bit is obviously not on, but comparing people rioting because of years of actual systemic injustice coming to a head to people rioting because some demagogue is making baseless claims about an election to rile them up isn’t fair), we probably won’t get progress by shutting out the other side and responding with memes.

    “The other side are idiots so I won’t engage” is part of what sparked the perceived disenfranchisement of rural America. Many are probably too far gone by now, but this rhetoric is unsustainable if we want progress.

  18. #11368
    Senior Member Boydy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luca View Post
    While I don’t agree with Lewis (the burning cities down bit is obviously not on, but comparing people rioting because of years of actual systemic injustice coming to a head to people rioting because some demagogue is making baseless claims about an election to rile them up isn’t fair), we probably won’t get progress by shutting out the other side and responding with memes.

    “The other side are idiots so I won’t engage” is part of what sparked the perceived disenfranchisement of rural America. Many are probably too far gone by now, but this rhetoric is unsustainable if we want progress.

  19. #11369
    Just Luca, but still a DJ Luca's Avatar
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    Indeed, it's an issue for both sides.

  20. #11370
    Senior Member randomlegend's Avatar
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    The other side actually are idiots though to be honest.

  21. #11371
    Senior Member Boydy's Avatar
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    Just to be clear, I mean liberal as separate from the actual left.

  22. #11372
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    The real divide isn't between left/right or woke/nazi. It's between people who care and people who don't. The latter are prisoners of the former.

  23. #11373
    Senior Member Spikey M's Avatar
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    I've always thought the biggest gulf is between Libertarian and Authoritarian. Left and Right looks exactly the same under Authoritarian leadership.

  24. #11374
    Senior Member Lofty's Avatar
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    It is all a bit mad I agree, I had to do a compulsory diversity e learning module last month (everyone had to) and half of it was focused on George Floyd and BLM.

  25. #11375
    Won the Old Board Lewis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luca View Post
    While I don’t agree with Lewis (the burning cities down bit is obviously not on, but comparing people rioting because of years of actual systemic injustice coming to a head to people rioting because some demagogue is making baseless claims about an election to rile them up isn’t fair), we probably won’t get progress by shutting out the other side and responding with memes.

    “The other side are idiots so I won’t engage” is part of what sparked the perceived disenfranchisement of rural America. Many are probably too far gone by now, but this rhetoric is unsustainable if we want progress.
    The 'baseless claims about an election' only managed to rile people up because of the 'perceived disenfranchisement of rural America'. You can't split the two into serious and non-serious concerns, one worthy of a riot and one not. After all, the summer riots were kicked off because a career criminal overdosed resisting arrest and a wanted nonce was shot going for a knife after fighting with the police. Are they noble, coherent causes in isolation? No, so it's much easier to say that violent lawlessness is shithouse regardless, and that everyone who said otherwise in the summer is a retard.

  26. #11376
    Senior Member randomlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewis View Post
    because a career criminal overdosed resisting arrest
    Both autopsies had the primary cause of death as being directly caused by the restraint. The police officer continued kneeling on his neck for two minutes after he was dead and didn't stop even once paramedics tried to attend to him. He was also handcuffed throughout the entire time they were kneeling on him.

    Stop being a retarded edgelord.

  27. #11377
    Senior Member mugbull's Avatar
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    The only people on this forum whose intelligence has survived these retarded culture wars are Jimmy and (sometimes) Boydy. Think a few years ago people here wouldn't so easily be letting facts fly out the window in return for aggrandized self-satisfaction

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    Won the Old Board Lewis's Avatar
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    I originally had 'wigging out', because the autopsy presumably only mentioned the fentanyl intoxication and meth use by-the-by; but okay. I stand corrected. Racism killed him, and they were right to burn cities to the ground. But the nonce they shot reaching for a knife? Did his death justify riots? Maybe so, and maybe Trump supporters can launch another kick-off over the woman shot in their riot. Can you see how this gets stupid?

  29. #11379
    Bookie Sir Andy Mahowry's Avatar
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    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump

    Trump has been permabanned from Twitter.

  30. #11380
    I used to be funny.
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    I care about wor Culture.

  31. #11381
    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    What about that "autonomous zone" in Seattle?

  32. #11382
    Administrator Kikó's Avatar
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    Matt Le Tissier has headed over to parler as well. Big day of losses for Twitter.

  33. #11383
    Won the Old Board Lewis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pepe View Post
    What about that "autonomous zone" in Seattle?
    People literally got away with murder in that, and the mayor cheered them on. But let's not conflate any of it with lawless idiocy.

  34. #11384
    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    Murder is cool if it is to combat systemic injustices mate.

  35. #11385
    Won the Old Board Lewis's Avatar
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    That's probably the loophole the Chinese have used to tweet about the positive results of their genocide.

  36. #11386
    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    Meanwhile, the son of my Nigerian former colleague is three years above his grade in math(s).

  37. #11387
    Senior Member Boydy's Avatar
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    Bernie would have won.

  38. #11388
    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    Bernie

  39. #11389
    Senior Member Spoonsky's Avatar
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    I mean, Luca’s right. Problem is that neither side is willing to give an inch at the moment. Progress will come if Democrats start actually trying to win rural voters by addressing their concerns, but the rampant classism in the Dems means that might be a few years away still - and in the meantime half of those voters are utterly convinced the entire party is made up of Communist pedophiles.

    At the same time, I just can’t believe that you guys don’t see the difference between the protests of the summer (let’s grant for the sake of argument that they were violent, unjustified, and did burn cities to the ground, whatever that means) and breaking into the seat of national government on the very day that your guy is to be officially voted out in the exact same building.

  40. #11390
    Senior Member Spoonsky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boydy View Post
    Bernie would have won.
    It’s a funny situation where he’s the exception to the classism I mentioned above, and his policies would be best placed to win those rural voters. At the same time those screams of COMMUNISM across all conservative media would have been so loud I’m not sure he would have been able to get through to them.

  41. #11391
    Just Luca, but still a DJ Luca's Avatar
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    I agree with the second bit of Lewis’ point, actually. Both forms of violence are reprehensible and the double standard being applied to them is bad.

    I just think that comparing the triggers and calling them equal isn’t fair. The perceived disenfranchisment itself in isolation doesn’t lead to storming the Capitol without the trigger of “they stole the election, defend yourselves” from the literal POTUS, which is a claim that is knowingly baseless (i.e., Trump knows it’s baseless, even if Rudy believes) and meant to stoke anger. The other set of riots were in some sense a loosely organized reaction to a set of events, and those stoking the flames were individual wally grassroots community leaders. It’s different when the order seems to come directly from POTUS, who should be held to a higher standard. And yes, I do think the casual defense of people burning and looting cities by local politicians wasn’t right either in the summer.

    In summary, one of these events could likely have been avoided if the POTUS wanted to. The other event relied on individual grassroots organizers to not stoke the flame. One of those groups should be held to a higher standard, but the outcomes are equally bad.

  42. #11392
    Won the Old Board Lewis's Avatar
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    I'm willing to hold the President of the United States to a higher standard than fuckwit 'community leaders' and celebrities, but not the senior/famous Democrats who are on record boosting their preferred violence. They are all in the same pile.

  43. #11393
    Senior Member Spoonsky's Avatar
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    But you understand this wasn’t just any normal riot, this was a riot aimed at disrupting the transition of power. It was a threat (however impotent) to the functioning of the democracy. (Mikem explained well above.)

    Trump also incited armed Republicans to invade the Michigan statehouse during the summer and nobody gave one-thousandth of a shit. It’s just apples and oranges with what happened on Wednesday.

    The outcomes are not equally bad.
    Last edited by Spoonsky; 09-01-2021 at 12:36 AM.

  44. #11394
    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    The potential outcomes are definitely worse for what happened this week. The actual outcomes go the other way though.

  45. #11395
    Senior Member Bernanke's Avatar
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    So, in addition to the Twitter ban for Donny, the entire far right media ecosystem seems in the process of being dismantled today. Bannon's Youtube gone, Flynn and Ben Garrison are also off Twitter, Parler is getting blocked in both Apple and Google's app stores, etc.

    The tech bros had a Zoom-meeting and flipped the switch.

  46. #11396
    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    Good that cancel culture is not a thing.

  47. #11397
    Senior Member mugbull's Avatar
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    Parler's gonna end up like Signal, except for rednecks instead of Muslims

  48. #11398
    Won the Old Board Lewis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spoonsky View Post
    But you understand this wasn’t just any normal riot, this was a riot aimed at disrupting the transition of power. It was a threat (however impotent) to the functioning of the democracy. (Mikem explained well above.)

    Trump also incited armed Republicans to invade the Michigan statehouse during the summer and nobody gave one-thousandth of a shit. It’s just apples and oranges with what happened on Wednesday.

    The outcomes are not equally bad.
    Weren't the summer riots all about disrupting institutional power (democracy itself insofar as it bolsters white supremacy)? I hope they were, otherwise they were even more stupid than I thought. In which case your argument is merely one of symbolism owing to it all being concentrated in one very important place. That is a good argument, but things like private property and the rule of law are as symbolically important as the bollocks shop on the hill, so you still end up doling out arbitrary favour based on what you happen to like.

  49. #11399
    Senior Member Spoonsky's Avatar
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    I mean, the summer protests were decentralized and had a variety of demands, from “down with the US government” to “stop shooting unarmed black people please”. A lot of it was just raw anger from people who’ve seen the same thing happen one too many times. There was no single goal in mind.

    Meanwhile the mongs who mobbed the capital literally told reporters that their goal was to “save America” and keep Trump in power. And they had been organized that morning by Trump himself.

    It’s not just about symbolism (it would be if they had chosen any other day for it), it’s about elections and peaceful transfer of power. Democracy only works if the losers admit that they’ve lost, otherwise you’re on a road to authoritarianism (left or right).

  50. #11400
    Bookie Sir Andy Mahowry's Avatar
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    These were swiftly deleted from the POTUS account.

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