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Thread: Making a Murderer (Massive Spoilers Within)

  1. #101
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    They don't, but a good watch nonetheless.

  2. #102
    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    Unless new evidence came up, I am not sure why Avery deserves a retrial. Dassey definitely does.

  3. #103
    Administrator SvN's Avatar
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    http://chadsteele.blogspot.co.uk/201...ce-in.html?m=1

    Interesting view on the scientific evidence.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by SvN View Post
    http://chadsteele.blogspot.co.uk/201...ce-in.html?m=1

    Interesting view on the scientific evidence.
    When you read that (assuming he/she is right), how on earth did Strang and Buting manage to muff their contesting of those two bits of key evidence up so much?

  5. #105
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    Oh and on the evidence that wasn't presented, why does the DNA under the hood of Hallbach's car mean anything?

    She'd been there somewhere up to 5 times, to see a man who worked/owned a salvage yard. He could have quite easily taken a look at something in her engine for her. Ooh-er missus aside.

    People never seem to state this when it's raised though.

  6. #106
    ram it up your shitpipe Giggles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yevrah View Post
    When you read that (assuming he/she is right), how on earth did Strang and Buting manage to muff their contesting of those two bits of key evidence up so much?
    Because if the whole thing is as crooked as planting it suggests, then the judge is part of that system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggles View Post
    Because if the whole thing is as crooked as planting it suggests, then the judge is part of that system.
    You what? Well in advance of the trial they were worried about what the FBI might do to refute their planted blood claims, and that (now I no more about EDTA) could only mean they were going to produce 'evidence' to suggest that EDTA wasn't present. As the writer of that blog says, the witness they called did mention that using only 3 samples and extrapolating wasn't correct, but she sure as shit didn't explain the rest of it in the sort of layman terms that are obviously required when trying to convince a jury, as the blog does.

    Same type of thing goes for the DNA on the bullet - unless I'm not recalling correctly or it wasn't shown, there was no witness called to say once the negative control is compromised IT ISN'T A TEST anymore.

    I thought Strang and Buting were both top gents, but (from what we saw) they were pretty poor in these areas. How hard would it have been to court two experts to come and talk for you on the subjects, explaining it properly? Instead they chose a Woman (sorry, not good enough in rural 'Murica) who had no teeth to do so and she muffed it.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pepe View Post
    That reporter though.


    This is basically all I took from the series also.

  9. #109
    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    Haven't seen the link but the dna tests being completely inconclusive was most definitely mentioned.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pepe View Post
    Haven't seen the link but the dna tests being completely inconclusive was most definitely mentioned.
    I'm pretty sure that was in respect of the EDTA in blood.

    For the DNA, Katz managed to wing it and suggest that it wasn't that much of a big deal as Avery's DNA was still present. Which again, as a layperson on these matters, I initially thought sounded reasonable (while still thinking they could have planted it). Had the defence explained it in the way that blog does (you should read it) and got a credible witness to do so, I wouldn't have thought the same for shit.

    Which either means the Blog is wrong, or they muffed it.

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    What's remarkable about her is that she can pull off so many different looks. From mom next door, to secretary, to nice person, to hardened reporter bitch. She'd be phenomenal in the sack.

  13. #113
    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    I'll read it later as I'm in a meeting but the bullet dna test should have not been used AT ALL. It was completely flawed.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yevrah View Post
    What's remarkable about her is that she can pull off so many different looks. From mom next door, to secretary, to nice person, to hardened reporter bitch. She'd be phenomenal in the sack.
    The glasses are a must.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pepe View Post
    I'll read it later as I'm in a meeting but the bullet dna test should have not been used AT ALL. It was completely flawed.
    Yeah, that's what the blog says. Maybe I am mis-remembering bits, it was a looong night, but had it been explained in those terms I'm sure I'd have felt as strongly about it as I do having read that blog.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggles View Post
    The glasses are a must.
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    I don't even...

  17. #117
    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    She is superb.

  18. #118
    ram it up your shitpipe Giggles's Avatar
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    Guaranteed she'd be in the shackles market too.

  19. #119
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    Interestingly, if you search for this:

    https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=an...nette+levy+age

    It's not immediately apparent and there are some results that have been removed under the European Data Protection act.

    It's disappointing that (we live in a society where) women still need to do that shit.

  20. #120
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    Steven who?


  21. #121
    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    Ok, just read the blog. Both of those were brought up but I guess as a scientist myself they were obvious enough. That's the reason I said earlier that the DNA tests were complete bollocks, both of them. If anything, bringing up any of them, let along both, as evidence was downright cheating from the prosecution and one definitely fuels the 'planted evidence/corrupt state' fire.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pepe View Post
    Ok, just read the blog. Both of those were brought up but I guess as a scientist myself they were obvious enough. That's the reason I said earlier that the DNA tests were complete bollocks, both of them. If anything, bringing up any of them, let along both, as evidence was downright cheating from the prosecution.
    Fair enough. To a layperson/thicko and only from what we saw, they weren't explained that well. And I can all but guarantee you that that jury would have seen little to nothing wrong with the issue with the DNA obtained from the bullet test.

  23. #123
    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    I don't know how much of the closing statements we were shown, but I did think that the defense did not bring all the inconsistencies up in a loud and convincing enough manner there.

  24. #124
    Senior Member simon's Avatar
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    Speaking of the closing statements, Krantz plastering the grinning faces of those two slime-ball cops onto the monitor and then essentially saying 'do you believe these lovely policeman or that odd looking man over there?' was rather infuriating.

  25. #125
    Living Legend! TG09's Avatar
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    They talk about using bleach, but surely they can pick up that bleach has been used to clean up blood. You see in it TV Show with black lights etc... So if they did clean up all the blood they should of seen it?

  26. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pepe View Post
    I don't know how much of the closing statements we were shown, but I did think that the defense did not bring all the inconsistencies up in a loud and convincing enough manner there.
    I did wonder while watching (particularly after the verdict) whether Strang or Buting had mis-judged the (geographical) area that they were operating in and therefore the jury too. I don't suppose there's much demand for a couple of city slickers to come and represent the underclass in backwater America, so presumably this would have been their first time dealing with a community where cattle rustling is probably generally about as serious as it gets and everyone knows and (more importantly) trusts the police.

    It's one thing trying to convince a jury that an inner city group of cops they've never even met are guilty of planting evidence, but another entirely trying to convince people who've probably had their cars towed through the snow by some of them personally the same.

    They were obviously forced to try in the circumstances, but I fear they misjudged the difficulty of pulling it off, despite Strang saying "it's something you'd never want to do".

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    Why was the jury allowed to be from Manitowac when the Averys were well known as scummy cunts?

  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by TG09 View Post
    They talk about using bleach, but surely they can pick up that bleach has been used to clean up blood. You see in it TV Show with black lights etc... So if they did clean up all the blood they should of seen it?
    I'm no forensic expert, I'm Yevrah (I hope Lewis read this thread one day, orgasm on the spot) but I'm pretty sure that even dousing the shit out of somewhere with bleach is still going to leave a shitload of evidence, particularly in a garage that looked like it still had things put there in the 1970s in it.

  29. #129
    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    One more: Any evidence found months after the initial searches can fuck right off. Do your job properly and find it the first time around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic View Post
    Why was the jury allowed to be from Manitowac when the Averys were well known as scummy cunts?
    Strang has addressed this since the show aired (hell, I think I did in the thread earlier too) and his point was that they'd have struggled to form an objective jury from anywhere in Wisconsin after that press conference where Krantz explained how it all 'happened' took place.

    My gut feeling was that while they were obviously better lawyers than anything that poor bastard Dassey ended up with, they probably weren't of the calibre required to get that sort of request granted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pepe View Post
    One more: Any evidence found months later after the initial searches can fuck right off. Do your job properly and find it the first time around.
    I wouldn't always say that should be the case, as it can presumably work both ways (evidence comes to light that gets someone out of prison), but how anyone in the jury bought that key being found on the 8th search is beyond me.

  32. #132
    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    I've definitely heard before that getting the right jury is over half the battle in such a case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by simon View Post
    Speaking of the closing statements, Krantz plastering the grinning faces of those two slime-ball cops onto the monitor and then essentially saying 'do you believe these lovely policeman or that odd looking man over there?' was rather infuriating.
    The absolute worst part of any closing speech was the absolutely disgusting and emotive language used by the prosecution in Dassey's case about his sexual lust taking over and him helping himself.

    I was ready to smash through the tv and step into his arsehole at that point.

  34. #134
    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yevrah View Post
    I wouldn't always say that should be the case, as it can presumably work both ways (evidence comes to light that gets someone out of prison), but how anyone in the jury bought that key being found on the 8th search is beyond me.
    Yes, I agree. But then that would be looking in some place that wasn't looked into before or looking for something very specific. A key in the room and a bullet in the garage? Those should be found within the first five minutes ffs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pepe View Post
    Yes, I agree. But then that would be looking in some place that wasn't looked into before or looking for something very specific. A key in the room and a bullet in the garage? Those should be found within the first five minutes ffs.
    Oh of course.

  36. #136
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    Its embarrassing all round. Bet there's hundreds of similar cases all over the US.

    Can you imagine what it's like in South America? Russia? China?

  37. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic View Post
    Its embarrassing all round. Bet there's hundreds of similar cases all over the US.

    Can you imagine what it's like in South America? Russia? China?
    Probably a bit like this:


  38. #138
    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    As I said earlier, imagine been stuck with a public defendant (Len K says hi) instead of ultra expensive lawyers. You'll be locked within five minutes.

  39. #139
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    An IQ of -12 + Len K and you'd be absolutely fucked.

    It'd probably be worse with a higher IQ actually as you'd understand both the gravity and graveness of the situation, while being able to do fuck all about it.

  40. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pepe View Post
    As I said earlier, imagine been stuck with a public defendant (Len K says hi) instead of ultra expensive lawyers. You'll be locked within five minutes.
    Mert is destined for such a role.

    "I'd like to open by first stating that as a female, and thus a second class citizen, she cannot be held responsible for the heinous crimes which she clearly committed"

  41. #141
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    Can you imagine fucking mert representing you and having to pay for the privilege?

  42. #142
    Senior Member Mazuuurk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yevrah View Post
    Strang has addressed this since the show aired (hell, I think I did in the thread earlier too) and his point was that they'd have struggled to form an objective jury from anywhere in Wisconsin after that press conference where Krantz explained how it all 'happened' took place.

    My gut feeling was that while they were obviously better lawyers than anything that poor bastard Dassey ended up with, they probably weren't of the calibre required to get that sort of request granted.
    He paid them about 400k dollars, right? Now, I have no idea what lawyers actually cost, but given the length of the case/trial and that I assume as a lawyer during that time you don't do any other work either, and by that it just doesn't seem like a very astronomical salary for them.

    Really fucking admire both of them though. That Strang dude is a real film type. Every time I see him, I feel as if I'm watching Dustin Hoffman in a film.

  43. #143
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    Yep. If you're not already aware, Strang's become something of a sex symbol online.

    Avery settled on $400k compensation and the previous lawyers took 40% of that, so he had $240k to play with. I don't know/didn't note how long they worked on the trial for, but I'm guessing you're right in that that sort of money won't get you that far.

  44. #144
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    Their fees have probably skyrocketed.

  45. #145
    Senior Member Mazuuurk's Avatar
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    Didn't know that, no

    In fairness, there were a few times where I was sure that saucy reporter you all talk about was just about to bite her lip when he was going on during the press-sessions.

  46. #146
    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    A sex symbol.

  47. #147
    Senior Member Mazuuurk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic View Post
    Their fees have probably skyrocketed.
    Not sure if you're serious or not, but this may very well be one of the few instances in the US where two lawyers actually losing a case have made them more attractive for employment, I reckon.

  48. #148
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    Kratz has probably knocked a few out over her.

  49. #149
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    The Innocence Project's website is a disgrace. The 334 people they've exonerated, all that work, simply undone by a shit website.

  50. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pepe View Post
    A sex symbol.
    Don't take my word for it, take the word of the Guardian's Lilit Marcus:

    http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-ra...lix-sex-symbol

    And whichever twisted brainfail made this...

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