http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...oreigners.html
http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...early-49-a-day
Look what happens when the power shifts.....
Sorry in advance for reporting reality.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...oreigners.html
http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...early-49-a-day
Look what happens when the power shifts.....
Sorry in advance for reporting reality.
Report in specifics please, Harold.
What do you mean by 'look what happens when the power shifts'.
It's stretching the term a bit to describe posting a month old Guardian article and a seven year old YouTube clip as 'reporting'.
wake up sheeple
The age of the clip is deliberate since it was from when Mandela was alive and lauded, despite being a massive racist. What I meant is the shift from a white government to a largely black one hasn't achieved very much positive. It is, if you like, a demonstration of affirmative action failing, as it always will. South Africa is a bit of a shithole now......Originally Posted by John
Should just get rid of Zuma and his mates on the gravy train...
Are you saying Mandela was a massive racist?
Yes, he is saying Mandela was a massive racist.
You're not getting away with that affirmative action guff. Mandela's party won a free election because the country was largely black and it was the first ever election in which everyone was allowed to vote.
So blacks voted for blacks because they were black, basically? Not turned out very well. Need to get some whites in there for diversity, I fear. Not only blacks as well, but blacks who want to kill whites.
Harold really is the voice of the oppressed!
The situation in South Africa is pretty much the same today with the roles reversed as it was before Apartheid ended.
The voice of reason, actually.
And if what you say is correct (it isn't, it's been tunred into a shithole) then that would be a massive failure in the eyes of the left, surely? The left hates racism, doesn't it? The left hates oppression, doesn't it? The left hates bigotry, doesn't it?
Fucking lol at this shit.
South Africa is a billion times better now than under apartheid. Maybe Mr de Bock isn't as racially superior as he used to be, but that's his problem.
In what way is it better?
I suppose we can add 'affirmative action' to the list of things you don't understand.
It was a shithole under apartheid too. It had racism, oppression, and bigotry under the old system. The difference then was that they were state sponsored, so if nothing else it's improved on that score. At least the disgraceful violence, racism, and xenophobia are all down to people being twats, rather than national policy.
It is better in that 90% of the population is no longer politically, socially and economically suppressed because of the colour of their skin.
Well I said apartheid was bad, so let's leave that bit aside. What is better apart from that?
Typical white apologists. Always seeing everyone else as a victim when the real victim is the rich white man whose rights are being taken away.
Apart from that? Well, the cricket team is better. What is worse?
Amazing.
Add apartheid to the list of things that Harold doesn't understand.
It's the same outcome. I know very well what affirmative action is, and I was referring to the workplace, not the choosing of the government.
Racism, oppression and bigotry are still there, but everything else is worse. Corruption, which no black, African political party ever seems to be able to do without, is much more rife.It was a shithole under apartheid too. It had racism, oppression, and bigotry under the old system. The difference then was that they were state sponsored, so if nothing else it's improved on that score. At least the disgraceful violence, racism, and xenophobia are all down to people being twats, rather than national policy.
Poverty, unemployment, income inequality, life expectancy, land ownership, and educational achievement have worsened since the end of apartheid and the election of the African National Congress. Again, I'm not to be blamed for reality.
Unless they've stopped it since I read about it, I think there is some pretty major affirmative action in the form of the 'Black Economic Empowerment' scheme. That basically dictates that businesses over a certain size have to let non-white people own a certain amount or manage significant aspects or some other shit to fulfill a certain number of points. The results (from a business perspective) are predictably wank.
R. W. Johnson recently updated his 1977 account of how shit South Africa was to say it's all about to collapse. I need to read that at some point.
Why do you think I don't understand it? It's not hard to understand. All the things listed above have gotten worse, and that's a fact.
Add apartheid to the list of things that Harold doesn't understand.
Things aren't great at the moment. I won't classify it as a shithole yet (but it's getting there slowly but surely, the DA desperately needs to win a couple more provinces), but I think it's worse than what it was at the height of Apartheid, with regards to corruption and self-enriching of those currently in power.
i don't completely disagree with the idea of affirmative action, but in it's current state, it's absolutely not working.
Certain things are better though, which tapers over the cracks. Plenty of youths seem to absolutely embrace diversity, which means if you get yourself involved in the right mix of people, things are pretty awesome. It's not that hard to do.
I get the feeling the quicker the ANC fucks shit up, the better, because people are getting fed up. We just need the uneducated people to grow some brains... It's seems unlikely, so it's still very much an uphill battle. I'm an optimist regarding the state of our country, so fingers crossed.
Lastly, Mandela might have been a racist at the height of the bombing in the 70's and 80's, but he certainly didn't stay one.
Or, in this case, the rich white men who kept a country stable by comparison. Let it rot lkike the rest of Africa, I say. Not that I want any Boers stealing our jobs, mind. I'm an equal opportunity non-immigrant welcomer, unless they are skilled and needed.
Northern Ireland should take the Boers if they ever jack it in. They could do with a sudden influx of Protestants, even if they're of the loony Calvinist manifest destiny variety.
Fuck that, the Boer accent is even worse than the Nothern Irish.
You were referring to the workplace, and not the government? Really?
You fucking liar.
Political corruption as we understand it might be up, but that'll be because a political system built from the ground up primarily to benefit those in charge has no real need for traditional 'cash for consideration' dickery or embezzlement. It was corrupt by design.
If academic achievement is genuinely down across the board I'll be surprised, because under apartheid children were forced to take lessons in a language most of them didn't understand.
How does 'land ownership' 'worsen?'
Yes, since I thought it was rather common knowldge that what followed the election of the ANC was obvious discrimination in the workplace, sanctioned by the government. It's not my fault you're ignorant.
As we understand it? As in actual fact, yes. Land owndership worsens by people having less land, one would imagine.Political corruption as we understand it might be up, but that'll be because a political system built from the ground up primarily to benefit those in charge has no real need for traditional 'cash for consideration' dickery or embezzlement. It was corrupt by design.
If academic achievement is genuinely down across the board I'll be surprised, because under apartheid children were forced to take lessons in a language most of them didn't understand.
How does 'land ownership' 'worsen?'
http://mybroadband.co.za/news/govern...the-world.htmlSouth African mathematics, science education ranked worst in the world
Not a racist but Apartheid was better.
Not homophobic but thinks they're child molesters.
Not sexist but doesn't seem to be able to refer to a woman without calling her darling or referencing her vagina.
The Not Muslim one is going to be fun.
Something I never said.
Say what now?Not homophobic but thinks they're child molesters.
Find me one example.Not sexist but doesn't seem to be able to refer to a woman without calling her darling or referencing her vagina.
It might be if all your previous ramblings were not made-up, typically left wing, emotional shite.The Not Muslim one is going to be fun.
I see, so you were referencing workplace discrimination out of nowhere, with no antecedent. You're either terrible at expressing yourself or you're a liar. Pick one.
Yes, political corruption of the type we're used to hearing about, and therefore think about when we hear the phrase.
Being a man of south west London (or thereabouts) I'm party to the true effects of a wave of white South African immigration. It's truly terrifying to behold.
I assume this bloke (welcome) has more of a clue than Harold.
South Africa obviously has serious problems (what middle income country doesn't?) but the idiotic implication he makes is that apartheid should have remained. He needs to watch himself.
Not out of nowhere - out of a direct result of blacks electing blacks because they're black.
Erm no, it isn't. Having the right people to run the country is the clear inference here. i.e not a load of black people because they're black.
Blitz needs no welcome, good lurker of the old board.
Speaking of South Africa, I wonder what happened to Fundi Tsotsi, he shared certain things but not so much to the point that he always had this vague air of mystery mixed in with his slightly nuttier postings.
Welcome, Blitz.
You're quite good at making these implications, provoking outrage and then backing away from them. It's called trolling.
The meaning of "Apartheid was bad but look what happens when the power shifts" is that the present situation is both worse and the inevitable result of abandoning apartheid.
It follows that apartheid was better and should have been kept.
Well it shouldn't provoke outrage, as I said nothing that isn't true. It's not my problem the left like to get themselves all worked up about these things. You would be aboilutely incandecent with rage were the races the other way around in all this. Just to be clear - apartheid wasn't better because it was apartheid - it was better because you had competent people running things.
The same could be said of Colonialism - virtually every country which had it was more stable than it's since become. And those which still hang on to it at some level are the more civilised nations in their neighbourhood, typically. And on that score, if you were going to be ruled by anyone, we were a bloody good lot to be ruled by as compared to others.
Isn't life expectancy falling in most of southern Africa (i.e. Botswana, Zimbabwe etc)?
Unemployment seems to have been fairly steady since Apartheid ended:
Income inequality has worsened in general, as it has in pretty much every country in the world, but income inequality between races has decreased.
I'm not sure which aspects of land ownership are supposed to be worsening? Fewer people owning land?
We asked this earlier. It's people owning less land.
Harold, a man of science.
Just tt be clear indeed. You' be happier if it had never come to an end?
Lol at every bad thing being 'oh well that's happened everywhere' but we get a nice, shiny graph on the one area you think suits you. If you have a disagreement take it up with wikipedia, the source of all excellence. Of course income inequality between races has decreased - loads of white people won't be allowed to go for certain juobs. I expect you've already had a wank over that.Isn't life expectancy falling in most of southern Africa (i.e. Botswana, Zimbabwe etc)?
Unemployment seems to have been fairly steady since Apartheid ended:
Income inequality has worsened in general, as it has in pretty much every country in the world, but income inequality between races has decreased.
I'm not sure which aspects of land ownership are supposed to be worsening? Fewer people owning land?
oh and *including discouraged workseekers
'we' didn't ask anything.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-31503425
Educate yourself.
Nope, I'd be happier if it came to an end and those in power were still competent (i.e mostly white, seemingly).
If it's happened everywhere it's clearly relevant to the argument of whether it's due to policies in South Africa (and therefore the removal of Apartheid) or not, but the only one I said had got worse everywhere is income inequality. I knew I should have said there that it is not due to white people getting poorer, given your predictable response.
And I will take it up with you, thanks, since you're the one who posted it. I'm sure you wouldn't settle for "yeah but wikipedia sez" if roles were reversed.
Yes, as in "all unemployed", not just "unemployed seeking work".oh and *including discouraged workseekers
I'm not sure what it is, but there's just something in the bones that tells me you wouldn't be bending over backwards to make these excuses if the roles were reversed. Call me cynical.
It was copied directly from wiki, that sentence. I just didn't quote it.And I will take it up with you, thanks, since you're the one who posted it. I'm sure you wouldn't settle for "yeah but wikipedia sez" if roles were reversed.
That doesn't sound like 'discouraged workseekers' to me. I guess they use a funny turn of phrase.Yes, as in "all unemployed", not just "unemployed seeking work".
At least we know it was an unthinking copy/paste dump from Wikipedia to suit another argument you'd made up on the fly.
Only that sentence. I used it to back up what I was saying because you know me Tobes, I am the one who always brings the evidence. I could have rephrased it but it was fine as it was.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inequa...d_South_Africa
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