The Ultimate WWE Thread

[Ian]

The "Vince wouldn't buy out the top stars" thing is true but as you've then gone into that's no excuse for burying what you've got and making the Dudley Boyz some.of the top Alliance stars at Invasion or Shane McFuckingMahon one of the key parts of their Survivor Series team, or never once trying to make the WCW champion look a big deal, etc.

Make Booker T look like a killer heel, not some fluky jobber who needs Shane's help. Don't have WCWs babyface be a creepy cuck heel who gets battered by Sara. When RVD gets super over just make him a more central cog in the story.

But then as we've all long suspected and had conclusively proven over the last month or so, Vince for a long time made booking wrestling seem a lot harder than it is.

[Ben]

Back then, as it was happening, Dave was repeatedly mentioning how the WWF guys were complaining that the WCW guys didn't know how to work, in an obvious attempt to bury the whole thing (Triple H and Undertaker being prime suspects). They didn't want their spots taking. We all know Triple H was a ridiculous politician back then (even when he was out with the quad injury he'd turn up to every TV taping to stick his oar in) but Undertaker was horrific; there was one instance where him and Kane were literally being attacked by 15 Alliance guys and he wouldn't hit the mat to sell it, he just rested on the turnbuckle until Austin arrived to clean house.

One thing I learnt reading the Observers is the genesis of the whole "Alliance" name. At first, around the Invasion PPV they were just calling them WCW and ECW as you would expect but the problem was they didn't own any ECW trademarks yet. All that was still in bankruptcy court (Heyman filed the wrong type of bankruptcy so it dragged on) but Heyman didn't own the full company anymore, he sold 15% to Acclaim (video game creator) in exchange for a loan in 2000 to keep them going. So it turned out Acclaim had a partial claim to ECW trademarks and they were ready to sue WWF for infringement if they didn't drop it. A load of boring shite you might think, but that's why they suddenly stopped referencing the actual company names in favour of "Alliance" which obviously didn't help get the angle over either.

[wullie]

Those Acclaim games were awful too. Up down left left X Y semi-circle L1 to throw a punch, get fucked.

[Shindig]

Play-er One!
Play-er One!

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Antonio Inoki RIP.

[Ben]

Shit. RIP you crazy man. Obituaries are Meltzer’s speciality. I’ll post it when he gets it out. Inoki had one of the most eventful lives in wrestling history. Splitting from JWA to form his own company and go to war with Baba, fighting Muhammad Ali, posting the highest TV viewing figures in Japanese history, embezzling his own company to pay off failed business interests in Brazil, being forced out of his own company for it, going into politics, regaining power in his own company and nearly killing it because of an MMA obsession (like putting his World champion up against fucking Cro Cop in a shoot).

Utterly mental.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Daniel Cormier as guest ref for Riddle/Rollins. Lol.

[Ian]

Yeah I saw that. WWE love them some MMAers.

I'm not averse to the idea in principle but surely you're meant to justify a guest ref by having had a normal ref who can't handle himself prove unable to keep them in line?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

A WWE ref just can't cope with THE FIGHT PIT.

[Ben]

New Japan were in London over the weekend and apparently the FTR tag match was absolutely incredible. I'll have to watch it to see if it's the case but I love FTR and everyone is raving about it, despite being pretty negative about the whole weekend in the build up because the cards were more like a house show than a special event like the last time they were here.

And FTR cut a massive promo on Tony Khan which considering how they've been buried the last few months was probably a complete shoot. Even though I will probably agree with their sentiment, I've got no time for shoot promos during shows. Speak to Rob Feinstein or Sean Oliver if you want to open up.

[Queenslander]

Pretty harmless.

[Ben]

Oh, that was nothing. Serves me right for reading about it before watching it.

[Queenslander]

Read before watching is how I consume wrestling for the most part.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

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[Ben]

Wrestling Twitter is only ever good when they heel it up.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

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More drama in AEW?

[phonics]

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[Ben]

AEW is just embarrassing now.

[Shindig]

Do they even have guys running talent relations?

[Gray Fox]

Large bet that Smalltime Tony does it himself.

[Shindig]

And the medical that Saraya hasn't had yet.

[wullie]

I think they got Tony Schiavone doing something like talent relations but you'd hope they first asked Jim Ross, a man who's done that exact job in the biggest company.

[Ben]

Isn't it some wanker like QT Marshall, whoever he is.

[Waffdon]

Otis and Gable are the best thing alongside Rollins based on the small amount I watch on YouTube. Has Otis always been hilarious? I also like how they had him actually win and Gable not get squashed.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Yeah Otis is brilliant.

Just a shame they boned him with his MITB run.

[wullie]

Chad Gable should have been Kurt Angle's son when they did that as well rather than picking the guy with an actual broken neck.

[Disco]

I wish they'd filmed this backstage fight, been ages since I've seen Andrade wrestle.

[Ian]

Otis and Gable are the best thing alongside Rollins based on the small amount I watch on YouTube. Has Otis always been hilarious? I also like how they had him actually win and Gable not get squashed.

There are lots of people moaning about him getting a reasonable showing against Boatman because idiots think you can't be a big lad unless you win a match of one way traffic every time.

Gable is great and I hope that him getting so much TV time.is a bit of a sign that HHH loves him but you can't rehab a whole roster of singles careers at the same time and somebody has to take the losses.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

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Byron not commentating will be a joy.

Wade Barrett

[Lewis]

'Imb Wade Barrutt and Imb backin the Dubble-yew-dubble-yew-ee.'

[Ian]

Smith was alright so this seems a little harsh but I suppose all I mean he was one commentator at the end of the Vince era who didn't actually make things actively worse, but nor did he really add much.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

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Stunned they've let him go, he was the best commentator in the company.

[Ben]

He only did NXT UK didn't he? And that looks to be pretty much finished.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

He did some NXT pre-pandemic too and he was on Main Event and NXT Level Up.

Strange that they've got fucking Booker T in to do that starting next week rather than Nigel.

Nigel and Cole would have been a really good duo on Smackdown too.

Edit: It seems Main Event has actually been done by Kevin Patrick and Saxton for over a year.

[wullie]

I thought Kevin Patrick was some new guy, he's been there for a year already?

[Ian]

McGuinness is great and as the best thing about NXT commentary (sorry Mauro) I'm astonished Trips let him go.

[Gray Fox]

We're apparently getting the White Rabbit pay off at Extreme Rules.

I'm interested to see what he's come up with this time and where he fits onto the card. Surely he's not up against Roman soon because he'd have to lose and the new character would be pointless again. Does he go and run through the mid carders again?

[Shindig]

What if it's just a ruse to keep an Undertaker return a secret?

[Browning]

There goes any help for the HHH era.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I really, really, really hope it's not Bray.

I just don't get him at all and the fact that 99% of THE UNIVERSE are moist for him baffles me.

[Shindig]

They're moist for the gimmick but the last thing I remember of him was the sledgehammer bollocks. He can't make the best of bad booking and there will be plenty of that.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

They're moist for the gimmick but the last thing I remember of him was the sledgehammer bollocks. He can't make the best of bad booking and there will be plenty of that.

They're fucking gushing over him and always have been. It's mental.

I'm judging this on Twitter and Reddit comments so a high number of nutters but still.

[Disco]

As interesting as some of the ideas and characters have been they inevitably end up with a Bray Wyatt match at the end. Unless it's more of Randy Orton trashing his spooky wendy house then I'm out.

[Shindig]

Does he still do the crab walk? If he could figure out a way for that to be a viable move, that'd be something.

[Dark Soldier]

Didn't know this shite was tonight. IPTV coming in clutch again. Fuck knows what any of these weird matches are.

[Gray Fox]

Sheamus and Walter leathering 7 shades of shit out of each other hasn't gotten old yet.

[Dark Soldier]

Scarlett has made me very interested in WWE again. Fair play.

[Gray Fox]

It felt like they ran short on time in the "fight pit." Finish seemed rush and was quite shit, but had to be got out of the way for Wyatt.

He's got a new mask but immediately took it off, so it seems there's no Fiend business going on this time. Interesting that they closed the show with him. Crowd were lapping it up too.

[Ian]

- Some weird slow spots in the middle of the six man tag but otherwise it was the fun you'd expect it to be and Walter and Sheamus battering each other is just good value (their Smackdown match was good too.) I liked that at the start when it wouldn't make sense for anybody to be beaten up yet they had the camera trying to get a bit of each fight, felt a bit like how they'd have done that sort of chaotic 'lots of people brawling around the ring' stuff in the olde dayes.

- Rousey and Liv was a bit sloppy. Rousey had to win though because they've totally botched the Liv title reign in the end. Having built her up as an underdog babyface quite well they clearly didn't expect the crowd to turn on her the way they did after the missed tapout against Rousey before and weren't able to recover it.

- Kross and McIntyre was boring and the crowd couldn't have given much less of a shit either.

- Belair vs. Bayley was good but then I'd have been surprised if it wasn't. Couple of bits where both of them seemed a bit confused as to what spot they had next (what was Belair doing with that ladder right before the end?) but otherwise it was fun. I thought Bayley was going to win but Belair is great so don't mind getting some more of her as champ.

- Why does every Edge match have to be so fucking long? I Quit matches as a snore at the best of times because you're just waiting for it to start setting up the spot where somebody might actually say the words and you're killing time before then, and this had way too much Attitude Era style mooch-and-fight in the crowd. At least Edge actually lost for once though.

- Did anybody at WWE google what Cormier looks like these days before getting him in for this? Fuck me he's got the same physique as I have and nobody's expecting me to be able to fill in Rollins or Riddle. I didn't think the Fight Pit worked as well as the NXT one and changing the layout of it a bit so the sides were higher (presumably so you weren't fucking up line of sight for half the crowd because I think the two NXT FP matches were both in lockdown?) basically just made it a cage match+. As Fox said, not sure if they ran short and then the end was a bit of a wet fart because the crowd clearly didn't know Rollins had tapped until the bell went. Still, at least he did actually tap, not many mens guys near the top of the card actually do that these days.

- I come and go on the Bray stuff basically for the reason Disco said. He's one guy who maybe needs a bit more of an editor for his promos but they then really need to be careful who they pair him with for when you get to the actual blowoff match because as ace as Firefly Funhouse was you can't just do those all the time. Will be curious to see what they have in store but regardless of anything else I thought that closing segment was done well and the crowd went fucking ape for it and anything that gets a mega crowd reaction is going to seem better.

[Ian]

Oh, and also, they've already just made Kross look like a dude who simply can't win unless his missus does heavy lifting for him.

EDIT: Also also, small thing, but notable that Maggle listed a 1993 WCW match as the best strap match of all time. A low bar but Vince would undoubtedly have had them claiming some Ruthless Agression era shit was.