How can the feeling be mutual when I've not had work done?
How can the feeling be mutual when I've not had work done?
she's ok at best in the ring and constantly no sells her opponents offence, just look at her match yesterday for fucks sakeOriginally Posted by phonics
it doesn't matter if she looks roughed up after the match if she easily fights off a run in
she made asuka and kairi look like jobbers for the second time and does the same to others as well
she's the second cena and if she wouldn't be a flair, she wouldn't be where she is
Yeah, I don't see the point in Charlotte Flair either. When she first came in she looked alright if I'm honest but since then there's been so many other female wrestlers that have joined the roster who put her to shame.
I noticed Bayley is a heel now too? It just doesn't seem to fit her one bit.
I saw Misre-Bailey doing her entrance, quite how that's supposed to work I'm not sure.
"Who put her to shame"? In what sense? Her getting to win things when they can't work out what to do with her is boring but let's not pretend it makes her anything close to a bad wrestler. I thought the women's Rumble was decent but as ever suffers from the fact that even more than the mens people are having to chuck themselves over the top because half of them are either too small or weak to actually get each other over the top. Belair and Baszler were great and I was hoping for a Baszler win but the possibility of them giving it to Charlotte was always considerable.
The mens was about a third of a really good Rumble and a lot of a shit one. The Bork stuff was the sensible way to do it but to sacrifice half the match to it was boring and as per it is less "look how great Bork is!" (especially when he's done two eliminations and is sweating his hole off) and more "look how incompetent the rest of the roster is!" The Lee / Boatman bit in particular. Stop deciding whether you're going to have a snog and fuck him out of the ring. But it's WWE and Lesnar so they weren't the only people made to look devastatingly shit, obviously. The end of the Bork bit and O'Shea's involvement made sense given their Raw stuff recently so I liked how that bit was done even if he then got instantly lobbed out by McIntyre. Then the match died a bit while they filled the ring back up to actually have a Royal Rumble and I'd say the closing stretch was pretty good. The stuff with Rollins and the rest of Give This Stable A Name FFS was a rare example of WWE booking something pretty much perfectly so I assume that was an accident. And I'm happy enough with McIntyre winning, about time they did something with him and he made sense as he's the only person other than Bork and Rollins who's been actually getting to do much that's any good recently. And it's disappointing that neither NXT guy got to do anything other than about 10 seconds of Lee against Brock before standard service was resumed.
Didn't watch Reigns / Corbin, obviously, Bryan / Fiend was the best they've done with him helped by the lights as has been mentioned already and that the crowd did wake up and start to get into it near the end. Asuka / Becky was pretty decent and then I didn't watch Bayley vs. Evans because why would you?
The direction (I assume from Mr Dunn) was shite at various times, only just catching eliminations or just missing them because they've got their finger pressed down on the button that auto-skips between cameras and whatnot.
The Fiends matches could do with a bit of a shake up. Every one is the same so far. He takes a beating for 10-15 minutes as our hero throws the kitchen sink at him, then comes one or multiple finishers on him. 2 count pin, then exasperated hero looks tired and out of ideas only for Fiendy boy to pop up in the background and then be impervious to/no sell everything. Then The Fiend wins easily.
Given he's now nailed on to face Reigns at Mania, the match will go exactly the same, except at the end Reigns will kick out and then hit 5 back-to-back BIG DOGS followed by 1 spear to take the win.
As for Charlotte, she has the one thing everyone else wishes they had. Her last name. She's always in the title picture.
Is Reigns allowed to face anybody other than Jezza these days?
I just assume those two will be fighting each other every PPV until one of them actually dies. And maybe even after that.
Reigns will win elimination chamber to set up the MEGA Match with The Fiend.
Bret's Rope Royal Rumble.
I watched some of World's Collide.
Bate and his Uncle had a good match vs. DIY but the lack of real stakes took the edge off it a little. Same, to an extent, with Imperium vs. UE but again, it was a good match and the focus (for both teams) on the fear of Walter worked as a yarn. I did lol at him trying not to fully take some of Strong's chops though. You've got a cheek, mate.
That could have ended a lot worse for Dijakovic.
Also, another Keith Lee/Dijakovic match but this time at a Takeover for a belt? Yes please.
I'm so-so on the Portland card so far. NA and tag matches: Yes please. Ciampa / Cole: Hoping Ciampa can take the edge of some of Cole's overly scripted-looking indieriffic nonsense he can get into against some opponents and Gargano / O'Shango I suspect I won't much care for. Hoping Belair, while she's obviously losing, will have a better outing than her last title match.
The New Day podcast might be one of the funniest podcasts full stop. Inside our outside of wrestling, from them going through all the terrible names the WWE tried to give them, to the road team constantly fucking with Xavier about whether he's in or out of the rumble, Big E's roommates catching him jacking it and his room mates computer etc.
Genuinely hilarious.
I was bored and I wanted to see who the current BEST IN THE WORLD is, so:
Shane O'Mac won the title at Blood Money part whatever on November 2nd 2018, he then competed in the Survivor Series match on November 18th where he was pinned by Boatman who takes the title from him. This was his first match so 0 defences.
Boatman then competes in a Draw/No Contest the next night on Raw. Boatman then successfully defends the title against Baron Corbin in a TLC match with the greatest referee ever in Heath Slater. He then loses to Balor on January 21st 2019 but this was by DQ and titles don't change hands by a DQ. He then participates in a Royal Rumble which Rollins wins but I'm not counting that as titles are not on the line in a Rumble. He's then involved in a DQ win against McIntyre and a DQ tag loss to Corbin and McIntyre. He then gets a win in a 6 man tag match before dropping THE BEST IN THE WORLD TITLE to Baron Corbin in a No DQ match at Elimination Chamber on February 17th. Two successful defences, a couple of DQ losses/wins and a no contest.
The next night on RAW, because WWE loves to give us what we've just seen on a PPV, Corbin faces Boatman in a tables match which he loses. 0 defences.
The following week the new and first two time BEST IN THE WORLD champion teams up with Kurt Angle and Finn Balor to take on Corbin, Lashley and McIntyre. Boatman's team loses BUT Lashley pinned Balor which means the Champ was never pinned and his reign continues. He then teams with Balor to beat Lashley and Lio Rush, beats two jobbers in a handicap match, wins the Andre the Giant battle royal and teams with Rick O'Shea to beat Corbin and McIntyre. He then faces Sami Zayn on May 13th 2019 in a Falls Count Anywhere match and loses the title in the UK.
The next week Sami Zayn loses the title to Boatman.
Our THREE TIME champ then faces Corbin (of course), Lashley and The Miz in a fatal Four-Way elimination match which is won by Corbin HOWEVER, Boatman was eliminated by count out and thus keeps his title. He then beats Bob Lashley in an arm wrestling contest and then a real match. He then teams with Rick O'Shea and The Miz to beat Lashley, Cesaro and Samoa Joe. On the 17th June he is involved in another elimination match which is won by Rick O'Shea who does eliminate Boatman by pin to take the title.
Rick's first defence is also a US title match in which he beats Samoa Joe to become our first double champ at Stomping Grounds. However, he loses to AJ Styles the next night in a non-title match but the BEST IN THE WORLD was on the line sadly for him. 1 defence.
AJ then has a couple of tag match wins in Japan before losing to Rick on July 1st.
Ricochet then beats Gallows and Anderson in singles competition in the same night but loses both titles to AJ at Extreme Rules. 2 defences.
AJ then teams with the other OC buddies (in their first match together) to beat the Loser House Party. He then loses on the Raw reunion show to Rollins but it was by DQ but he loses on Smackdown to Kofi on July 30th.
Kofi is now our second double champ but he's holding a World title. His first defence is against Randy Orton at Summer Slam which is a double count-out draw. He then faces Randy again but this time in a 6 person tag match which he loses but Woods is the man pinned. He then wins a tag match at a live show before beating Randy Orton at Clash of Champions. Another 6-man tag is followed on Smackdown but on October 6th Smackdown goes to Fox and Kofi loses both titles to Brock Lesnar quickly.
Brock then beats Cain Velasquez at Blood Money and Rey at Survivor Series. His next match was the Rumble but as said previously they don't count.
So there you have it Brock is, of course, THE BEST IN THE WORLD.
Didn’t you know the champion doesn’t have to be pinned to lose the title in a Triple Threat? They really should make that clearer.
What?
This can't be true, Maggle would have mentioned it.
I started today (3 episodes in) and I love it as much as I knew I would.
Xavier's Youtube channel is also great, especially when Big E is on.
I subscribed after seeing a clip of Big E talking about slapping meat with Goldberg. I've got into Jim Cornette's one too, apart from his sidekick it's good stuff. I can never hate anyone as much as he hates Kenny Omega and the Young Bucks.
Last edited by wullie; 03-02-2020 at 05:10 PM.
I enjoyed his dream team match just being 3 Goldbergs.
I had to unfollow Cornette, his mad anger is amusing some of the time but he's turned into such a hypocritical blinkered prick, or rather that's been thrown into the light because the people he inexplicably hates are far more successful now. And that's before we get to the dickheads who follow him about tagging him in things they think will make him angry.
That's the bit that puts me off, the 'cult'. His co-host is the embodiment of that, just going along with him and using his same wacky insults.
What’s his problem?
I'm a twit
Graves is going to end up in that ilk once WWE bin him for slagging off the current product.
Poor O'Shea has to get biffed by Bork at Blood Money.
It'll be because of the comedy wrestling and such like.
How does Cornette feel about NJPW, out of interest?
From the episodes I've heard he doesn't have enough interest in Japan as a whole to form an opinion either way. With Omega and Young Bucks he thinks they're exposing the business (see also: Orange Cassidy, Marko Stunt, Joey Ryan's dick stuff) with a load of spot stuff that looks like a cooperative gymnastics routine rather than a contest between opponents, also something about Omega wrestling blowup dolls and liking Japanese schoolgirls so a bit weird. Outside his raging biases though a lot of his criticisms of the shows make sense, he's really good on the little details.
These are the bits in NXT where it loses me sometimes, like I really didn't care for big chunks of Gargano / Cole for that reason. But it doesn't make me annoyed or anything, if people want to watch that or the Superkick Parties (do they still do those?) then fair play.
Cornette is someone I could listen to for hours on end. He’s brilliant and more often than not he’s right. He’s another, much like Dave, who I think gets hated on by “the community” just because his opinion isn’t always “yea that WWE PPV was full of 5 star classics you should jack off to”.
I'd still like to know which swivel-eyed mentals you're reading who are that devoted to WWE. They're certainly not the ones attending any shows judging by crowds in recent times.
Cornette is largely very good and is an engaging speaker but his loathing of anything after a certain point about 20 years ago gets a bit yawnsome in anything other than small doses.
He does give credit to today's stuff, but mainly the things that adhere to the old school set of rules. Despite his predictions of doom for AEW he constantly praises Jericho, Cody Rhodes, MJF in particular and a few others, it's a lot of the endless flippy stuff that looks too rehearsed or just for show that he rants about, and I can understand some of it. When someone does a moonsault and lands on their own feet while lightly brushing the opponent or when you see the 12th canadian destroyer of a two-hour show you get where he's coming from. One thing he doesn't like is more than one women's match on a show, seemingly regardless of how good the women actually are.
He does praise Darby Allin because although he does a lot of dives, they look like he's actually trying to hit someone with it.
I mean in the Welby Wrestling Federation (fuck off, pandas) you'd definitely have a lot less suicide dives and jumps where a small horde of people are gathering to catch a dude for 30 seconds before he jumps.
My Jim Cornette opinion is 'Stop killing the Super Kick you bastards'
I would agree. It's now a transition move that frequently doesn't even really get sold.
Admittedly I don’t follow much wrestling content these days so my experiences are probably based on a small handful of people, but I’m still yet to see any criticism of Dave that isn’t driven by people thinking WWE is amazing and he’s bias. It’s crazy to me because I’m not sure what they expect from rankings that are one man’s opinion.
It’s also part of the reason I don’t watch any WhatCulture anymore. No matter how much dog shit they serve up Simon Miller will find a way to give it 37 ups and 3 downs.
Cornette's problem with Omega apparently stems from when he signed for NJ and how he told ROH, he also took against an exhibition match he had in Japan with a 9 year old girl. Same for Ibushi (who he used to nicely refers to as Omegas boyfriend because you know, gay is funny right?) when he did the same with a blow up doll (and managed to make the doll look pretty good). The Young Bucks have made a career out of poking fun at 'kayfabe' as if such a thing really exists these days. All of these things have happened in an era where the business could not be more exposed yet they still seem to be great crimes in Cornettes opinion, as are certain displays of athleticism that he deems silly (rather than, you know, just a different method of competition).
Somewhat ironic given that the exact same criticisms were leveled at his generation, and indeed his generation were the ones who presided over more 'exposing the business' than almost any other and he was on the writing team in the period when the WWE destroyed the traditional model of wrestling and hotshotted the bejesus out of the mid-late 90's. He has a lot of very good things to say on how wrestling should be done (most of all on how to build wrestlers into credible stars) but his weird obsession with a handful of the most successful modern wrestlers is tragic as is his refusal to recognise that wrestling has evolved in the past 30 years.
Last edited by Disco; 04-02-2020 at 12:40 PM.
I mean I think we covered this a month or two ago so no need to go over the whole thing again but if you're going to judge the WWE fanbase by it's hardened core of IWC weirdos then obviously you're not getting a reasonable sense of how people feel about a certain thing. I mean I've seen Arsenal Fan TV and met a real-life Arsenal fan who didn't emit an ear-splitting shriek every time Wenger was mentioned so these things aren't always indicative.
As for WhatCulture, their videos are shit from the few I've seen and Simon Miller, if he's the muscly lad, struck me as a bit odd. Him tempering his attempt at a "How WWE Should Have Booked" video with a "HEY GUYS THIS IS JUST MY OPINION!" every three minutes was awful and WC as a whole are definitely more a bit more positive about WWE than I am, certainly the PPVs.
Wrestling With Wregret is my go-to a lot of the time. Zane is also generally more disposed to seeing the upside of some of their bizarre decisions than I am but it's always well-reasoned so I can dig it. And it's increasingly him and through Csonka's reviews that I learn about Raw and SD now that they're not on Sky. I'll sometimes use a Totally Legit You Guys site to check out the odd match if it's particularly well reviewed.
It's the same issue you get with anything, the internet distills and promotes the most rabid, frothing idiots so you only ever really see the extremes of any subject. That's why we come here, for balanced sensible opinions all round
Even WWE don't pretend kayfabe is a thing any more, not really.
Oh yea, I agree that you can't judge the fan base as a whole on the opinion of a few idiots. My only point here was that I feel like Jim has fallen into the same category as Dave whereby you can't mention his name without people going "yea but he's a bias cunt" and in Dave's case "LOL THAT MATCH WOULD GET TEN STARS IN TOKYO!!" and it seems that these opinions are being formed by either 1) a failure to accept WWE isn't as good as you think it is, 2) failing to understand other people can have different opinions to you or 3) regurgitating some shite you heard someone else say. In most cases it's probably a combination of all 3.
I'm not judging wrestling fans, I don't really have reason to care about them anymore. If they want to be positive about the state of things, go ahead. What I don't like is them automatically dismissing anything said by certain people on the basis that they're not as positive as they are.
Russo is another one who has fallen into this category. Yes, he's responsible for a lot of shit booking, but you can't deny the fact that he had creative control of WWE during the "golden days" of the attitude era. People act like he's never been anything but a cancer on the industry, which is just ridiculous. He's not accused of being bias like the other two (other than maybe bias to his own material) but he's another who the very mention of his name will get all the idiots coming out to call him a cunt.
I mean Russo is a big Third Half fan so.ots harder to criticise him now.
I’ve never met this Third Half guy but Russo sure made me feel sorry for him in a way he never managed with any of his WCW characters.
Of the three I think Meltzer gets the most unwarranted stick (partly because his answer to most stuff is to read his newsletter for $11.99 a month), Cornette gets it for being a twat about the modern era, but Russo I think gets completely warranted criticism. When you go back and watch his era of WWF/E it's utter crap, a million different things happen and none of them go anywhere or mean anything. His WCW or TNA stuff is even worse, the difference was he didn't have three of the best performers ever to deliver his rubbish.
And everything good that he claims is his idea turns out to have been nothing to do with him. The mans a charlatan.
One thing Russo seemed to do that I did like was get more people involved in the show, like nearly everybody had something going on. A lot of it was bollocks, but it's probably better than forgetting some of the roster even works there.
Yeah, it felt like most people had a purpose. Which shouldn't be that hard to do, even if they're not that close to the title belt they're in theory meant to be gunning for.
Not sure how much reciprocation I'll get here but it's worth a shot.
I partake in a fortnightly D&D session, we're coming to the end of a chapter and I'm producing a one-off that we'll do between chapters where a magical wrestling circus rolls into town and our heroes become a part of it. I'm basing it off an existing Tabletop and then editing it to make it more comedy based.
What I need help with is generating a roster of Magical Superstars, I need a larger than I'll actually use roster so that each character can choose who they want to feud/team with. They can be as serious or as ridiculous as you want (I'll put a couple of my examples below)
What I need.
Name.
Species - we play a traditional world so elves,orcs, cat people etc. all cool
Function - This would be a description of style, so like high-flyer, street brawler, submission master (feel free to use an example of someone IRL and I'll adapt it)
Look - What's his style/presentation
Gimmick - This is the most important part as it's the core thing that I'll play off. I care more about it being funny/entertaining than legit but that doesn't mean you can't be serious, for example, Brock Lesnar is a dull gimmick but Paul Heyman's BROCK LESNAR works. Jokes are funnier though.
Role - Heel/Face/Neutral obviously
Finishing/Character Move - Should be in keeping with the characters gimmick
and finally Stats
There are 4 stats which you can add or minus from for a total of +3 points.
Work, which is your most important as it effects everything you do. Good workers can do it in the ring, on the mic, and run the locker room
Look, which is kind of Mic/Promo/Charisma on camera.
Power, which is strength in the ring.
Real, which would be used when you're trying to be 'real life tough' whether that's breaking Kayfabe on camera, intimidating the other fighters off camera or just working stiff in the ring.
For example, off the top of my head,
IRL The Undertaker who was well respected, didn't speak a lot, strong as an ox but stuck to the gimmick could be
+2 Work, -1 Look, +1 Power, 0 Real
whereas peak Shawn Michaels who used his natural talent and fire promos to counter his small size to screw any potential competitor might be
+2 Work, +2 look, -4 Power, +3 Real
A couple of quick examples off the top of my head as I haven't got my sheet to hand.
Example Wrestlers:
Name: Bulk Bogan
Species - Human
Look - Like a disgusting fat roadie with an enormous belly sticking out of his shirt, looks like Hoagie but with one of those hats with corks on it
Function - Brawler/Fighter
Gimmick - It's just Hulk Hogan in a racist australian accent.
Role - Neutral
Finishing move - Poison mist but he does it by smashing one of those toads they've got everywhere in your face
Stats: 0 work, -2 look, +5 power, 0 real
Tag team
Name: The Postmen
Names: Pat and Jess
Species - Human + Small Cat person
Look - One's a curly haired ginger man in glasses and the others a small black and white cat person
Function - High flyer
Gimmick - I mean it's clearly just postman pat, whether it's sleet or snow, he'll deliver etc. mostly just puns about mail.
Role - Baby Face
Finishing move - Using his powers of the post, folds up his opponent and mails them to the next dimension where they lose by count-out
Name: Mr. Mime
Species: A pokemon
Look: like Mr. Mime the Pokemon
Function: Whatever his opponent does
Gimmick - Try to best him in a physical contest and you might have your own skills turned back on you. Try cut a promo on him and him repeating back your promo in a mocking voice might leave you wishing for the days of the crowd shouting 'What' at you
Role: Baby Face
Finishing Move - Yours but better.
I tried to do a mix of rather plain and just dumb as shit examples to show the breadth at what I'm looking for. Just dumb action figures for us to play with basically.
Yep. Something WWE should be really going for, given their live scheduling is 20 hours of pure recaps.
The recaps aren’t due to lack of content. They’re due to assuming the audience has a single digit IQ.
Name: The British Wrestler
Species Human
Look He dresses like the Patriot, except in Union Jack clobber, and he has to be my height and wear a mask at all times so that I could deliver the promos (in a Bridlington pattern gansey or a John Motson sheepskin) while Nigel McGuinness does the actual wrestling
Function He wrestles in the stiff old school style, and his pay per view gimmick match is one divided into rounds
Gimmick He's a British wrestler who speaks in that crap British wrestling voice, calls his opponents 'sunshine', and uses British lingo like 'load of rubbish' and 'kick your head in'
Role Heel, except here where he is worshipped
Finishing move The Royal Artillery (stiff as fuck running clothesline), and the Tower of London (crossface submission)
Stats: +3 work, -4 look, +3 power, +1 real
I'll use my eWrestling persona circa 1999
Name: Dean "The Destroyer" Davies (Occasionally referred to as "Triple D")
Species: Human
Look: Basically Steve Blackman
Function: He's a super generic wrestler who has no real wrestling identity other than all of his moves being over the top power moves. Lots of punching, kicking and using real wrestler's finishing moves mid-match.
Gimmick: He didn't have one, until he accidentally ran over another wrestler (who was his best friend) and became an alcoholic due to the guilt of it all. He would come out to wrestle absolutely hammered (carrying a beer can) but would often somehow shake himself out of it (Hulking up) just in the nick of time to secure the win. When the guy he ran over recovered and returned, Dean Davies turned HEEL by revealing that it was all a ruse and he'd actually done it on purpose because he was jealous of his success as SWF European Champion.
Role: Generic boring face to start with, evil heel once he lost his smile.
Finishing move: "The Destruction" A chokeslam into a piledriver, however that fucking worked.
Stats: -7 work, -6 look, +8 power, +5 real
Name. - The Big Slow
Species - Goliath
Function - just a big lumbering freak show fucker
Look - i'd like to imagine he has the Andre the Giant / old WCW Giant singlet
Gimmick - clumsy as fuck but deadly if he gets ahold of you... has the reputation of the dumb, goofy asshole of the trope that everyone begrudgingly loves and puts up with because he will literally sit on you and means no harm to anyone, which he repeatedly tells everyone to the point of annoyance because he has an IQ of like 33.
Role - I'd like to imagine him as a super baby face that is almost like ashamed of his own strength and hugeness to the point of embarrassment and therefore rages after awhile
Finishing/Character Move - Croakslam .... like a chokeslam but he accidentally kills whoever he does it to and then is REALLY sad about it because he didn't mean to kill them he was just doing his job. he forgets that he can't do the move without killing them and has accidentally killed several performers in the past
Work +2
Look -4
Power +10
Real -5
Hired except he's well Tory so I'll need the promos to be delivered in the mask but wearing the Churchill hat and smoking a cigar. You're the classic heel who spends his time telling everyone that they're working class scum.
You're in but you've been rebranded to Drugs Bunny and because I can't be bothered to make my own character art, your finisher is a gun.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
