I think numbers is a big part, yes. It's about what films will be seen as classics rather than what you personally think are classics. If most people don't know the film it won't be seen as a classic.
I think numbers is a big part, yes. It's about what films will be seen as classics rather than what you personally think are classics. If most people don't know the film it won't be seen as a classic.
It's at number 21 in IMDB's list, with half a million votes. It's a classic already.Originally Posted by QE Harold Flair
Given it's barely in the last 15 years though Hazza, it hardly invalidates your argument, so I wouldn't worry.
Well IMDB is for film buffs more than the general public. I reckon most people wouldn't even know the film exists.
And yea it just about fits in. I just don't think foreign films will ever garner enough popular attention to fit the criteria.
That just means that it becomes a Metropolis, Battleship Potemkin, or Das Boot style classic instead. That's still a classic.
You can get classics based on popular appeal, and classics based on critical reception. Those are both perfectly valid avenues to be remembered.
A real classic will be both those things in my view.
Yet you listed Shutter Island as one in your first post in this thread?
Mmmkay.
If your definition of a real classic knocks out Citizen Kane, Vertigo, Blade Runner, Wizard of Oz, Battleship Potemkin, Shawshank Redemption, Metropolis, Fight Club, Seventh Seal, Das Boot, Brazil, and Seven Samurai, then you're going to find that it's a pretty niche definition.
I do see what you're driving at, but I think a film should be able to shine so much in one category that it can't be ignored. Pushing the Top 20 on the IMDB list is a strong indicator that it's too highly critically-regarded to be left aside.
Well it doesn't personally, no. But for the purposes of this discussion, yes. I'm not sure about the validity of your claims regarding the likes of Fight Club and Blade Runner, though. They have been seen by a lot of people and are, I put it to you, very well known worldwide.
They did tank at the box office - neither of them even made their production costs back in movie tickets. They've become more popular with age, as their critical and popular reception took hold.
The films I listed above are all either films that tanked in the box office, or films that are considered to be among the most influential classics (even by the standards of classics) in film history. Or in the case of Vertigo and Citizen Kane, both. I have to think that any definition of a classic which ignores that is lacking somewhat.
Fight Club tanked?
Apparently. Production costs in the 60 millions, and box office in the 30 millions. I pulled that from an article though - I definitely didn't know it off the top of my head. It comes up in a lot of "classic films that were box office flops" lists.
After looking into it, the $30million was domestic gross. It made $100million worldwide. Still lower than I expected, but I'm not sure it constitutes a box office disaster.
Source: http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=fightclub.htm
Popular culture will probably regard all of the shite that Marvel has released as being "classic", and maybe some of Tarantino's output.
More legitimately, the Nolan Batman films, the LoTR trilogy, 12 Years a Slave, The Departed, No Country for Old Men, City of God...
There are others that I liked as much or more, but I recognise that they are niche.
We've had plenty of 'classics'. They might not permeate popular culture to the same extent, because it's not 1953 and we 1) have more choice; 2) don't need idealised versions of the Second World War reminding us that we're still important, but I'm sure we will still be watching Gladiator in fifty years.
I didn't like Gladiator, so I won't. I prefer well done, factual documentaries about these things, personally.
Film versions are always embellished with pretentious directors changing the real story for no good reason.
Touching The Void and The Beckoning Silence - that's how it should be done as far as docu-films go.
Why do you bother watching films in the first place then?
It sounds like you don't like them that much.
I do. I was talking about a specific type of film there. It always annoys me when directors change the real story when the real story doesn't need changing.
Not to prove Harold's point but I've barely heard of City of God.
I've barely heard of Das Boot.
From what has been mentioned so far:
BTTF style:
Lord of the Rings
Harry Potter
Gladiator
CK style:
City of God
Memento
Eternal Sunshine
Love Actually.
Is The Notebook this millennias Casablanca?
I don't think the Notebook is nearly as well respected as Casablanca.
Napoleon Dynamite is a perfect example for this. Midnight in Paris seems to be another one that's embedded itself in the public imagination.
Stop everything and watch it.
No, don't!
New James Bond film is shit.
The films you listed being Touching the Void and Shutter Island?
Scorcese and Di Caprio give the latter massive viewing figures, but Touching the Void is hardly a household name. City of God outperformed it if we look only at box office figures.
I mentioned those films in a different thread about a different topic.......
You didn't, but I accept the unnecessary extra thread caused the confusion. Putting forward Touching the Void does suggest you don't really believe what you're arguing though.
Yes, I fully believe it. As I said before, I consider is as classic but others wouldn't. The title of this thread isn't what I personally consider classics but I was just giving my opinion. They won't be considered classics generally, I doubt. I did say 'for me', which ought to have been enough.
So you just liked it then.
I'll be disappointed if Inception doesn't have the staying power to belong in this discussion. It should.
I'd say it definitely does. "-ception" has basically become a modifier for anything meta.
I also feel like The Martian is intentionally designed to occupy the same cultural space as Apollo 13 did twenty years ago, and does so successfully - if you think Apollo 13 is a classic now (I definitely do), then you'll likely think the same about The Martian in the future.
No, I would consider it a classic. Don't start this again, I made it very, very clear.
Having just seen it, I'd agree. Well, to a point - it's a much better film than Apollo 13.
I totally agree with that. It's probably in my top five all-time films, but I appreciate I have a certain bias in this regard.
I don't think it's anything to do with bias, it's just a brilliant film, that barely puts a foot wrong.I totally agree with that. It's probably in my top five all-time films, but I appreciate I have a certain bias in this regard.
Yeah, based solely on how much you liked it. Its fine, everybody can consider classics in their own terms, it's just amusing that you police other people's choices on the back of it.
And that the whole premise of the thread is about popular classics. He basically responded to the other thread's question.
It's a fairly serious matter, all this.
You were certainly acting as if it were, hence pointing out your hypocrisy.
The Dark Knight
Inception
The Departed
The Wolf of Wall Street
Fuck off Toby.
I don't remember that one, have you got an IMDB link?
Bantz.
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