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View Poll Results: Who gets your vote in 2024?

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  • Conservatives

    0 0%
  • Labour

    13 72.22%
  • Lib Dems

    2 11.11%
  • Green

    0 0%
  • Reform

    1 5.56%
  • SNP

    1 5.56%
  • Some Celtic fringe joke party

    0 0%
  • Other

    1 5.56%
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Thread: General Election 2024: Gone on the 4th of July

  1. #1451
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    Oh and what was the timeline for implementing those actions before the whole thing blew up?

    I’ve not caught up with today’s developments yet, but those 4 questions seem like quite straightforward ones (some of which can presumably be blamed on the Tories, so essentially a free pass) yet the answers don’t appear to be forthcoming.

    Instead we have BBC verify going into overdrive, whilst simultaneously verifying nothing and lingering doubt that for all his eccentricities how far up the agenda was this really before Musk got involved?

  2. #1452
    Senior Member Spikey M's Avatar
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    Labour understandably want this to blow over. Nobody wants one of the biggest scandals in the countries history to come to the fore just as they've taken power, but the problem is that their attempts to help it blow over look an awful lot like trying to cover it up again.

    It's just painful to watch. I honestly don't think they get it. The tool makers son is, I fear, as out of touch as many of us thought he might be.

  3. #1453
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spikey M View Post
    Nobody is arguing that the Tories aren't a shambles, it's just a shame to see Labour following a similar path.

    We currently live in a country where Nigel Farage is seen by many as the best option and I - even though I would never vote for him - am struggling to argue with that case.

    Nigel Farage the best option available. Christ this country is in the shit.
    This is the same guy that destroyed the country with BREXIT and is clearly a Russian shill/corporate shill?

  4. #1454
    Senior Member Spikey M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic View Post
    This is the same guy that destroyed the country with BREXIT and is clearly a Russian shill/corporate shill?
    It is. And yet there he is, saying the right stuff. It's easy stuff too. Any one of us could do it. Condemn the rapes, say it needs a review, palm it off on some Sue Grey figure hiding at the back of the chamber and then it probably would blow over. Until the results come out anyway. But then you leave that until after the next election unless you stumble upon something damning to hit the Tories with.

    Easy.

  5. #1455
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    Indeed. Instead they’re getting bogged down in defending not doing an inquiry due to process issues, which, with the best will in the World the average person (read voter) does not give a shit about.

  6. #1456
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yevrah View Post
    Why has it taken two years already to not implement the recommended actions? Why did the report recommending those actions take so long in the first place? Why can’t the actions be implemented and a public enquiry held and further actions updated/implemented at the end of it?
    Yes exactly.

  7. #1457

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    Quote Originally Posted by niko_cee View Post
    That was Jezza's biggest mistake.

    If he'd stayed true to his beliefs he'd have pissed the post-Cameron election as the face of leave.
    Correct.

  8. #1458
    Senior Member randomlegend's Avatar
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    Every fucking political story on the BBC at the moment seems to be accompanied by what Elon Musk has tweeted about it. Why? Fuck off.

  9. #1459
    Won the Old Board Lewis's Avatar
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    The previous report wasn't a report into the specific nationwide problem of Pakistanis raping white girls, and you would be hard-pressed to believe that any of its recommendations would have prevented said specific nationwide problem.

    The Conservative Party are obviously being opportunists calling for something they never wanted to have, but anyone claiming that the issue was resolved with the other report is ducking it.

  10. #1460
    Senior Member Lofty's Avatar
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    I enjoyed Jenrick getting arse raped live on Radio 4 the other day as his record on grooming gangs was exposed given his sudden concern about them.

  11. #1461
    Senior Member Spikey M's Avatar
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    There's not an ounce of sincerity in the lot of them and seeing them getting exposed and embarrassed before just moving on as if nothing happed is getting really, really old.

    Consequences needed.

  12. #1462
    Senior Member Spikey M's Avatar
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    Like this cunt:



    You were a Labour Councillor in 2015, then a Tory MP for about 5 years. Where was this energy then? Fuck off.

  13. #1463
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    Quote Originally Posted by randomlegend View Post
    Every fucking political story on the BBC at the moment seems to be accompanied by what Elon Musk has tweeted about it. Why?
    My guess is that as the nation's publicly funded news outlet they are caught between a rock and a hard place. Clearly on one hand a story about mass abuse cover up is in the national interest and they should absolutely be covering it, but on the other they clearly don't want to be touching it with a bargepole, for obvious reasons. So they've decided the approach they will take is cover it tentatively through the lens of what Musk is saying which allows them to widen that approach to other things he's gobbing off about without actually having to cover the story properly that they don't want to touch.

    It's a(nother) genuine disgrace in this whole sorry episode and yet more fuel for the "legacy media are not telling you the truth" brigade on Youtube.

  14. #1464
    Senior Member niko_cee's Avatar
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    What are Musk's thoughts on the Carabao Cup ball?

  15. #1465
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    I don't get what a public inquiry would achieve or why the Lee Andersons of the world are calling for it. It would just be more wishy washy recommendations that wouldn't be adopted in 12 years' time when the thing actually reports. They should just be bombarding the news cycle with new specific examples and naming people.

  16. #1466
    Senior Member Boydy's Avatar
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    Fantastic.

  17. #1467
    Senior Member Spikey M's Avatar
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    Yeah, I saw yesterday that bond/gilt prices have essentially reacted the same way to this budget as they did to the Lettuce's, but the media are mysteriously silent this time round.

    I don't think other measures have reacted quite as badly (possibly until now), but yeah. Pretty shit.

    Thank fuck we fixed out mortgage rate last month. It doesn't come into effect until May, and I was hoping for another interest rate from before then to fix lower still, but that's looking unlikely now.

  18. #1468

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    Stagflation concerns. Having inflation +0.3% on the previous report off the back of the zero growth revision has really kicked this into gear.

    Starmer won't last the term.

  19. #1469
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    The UK is going to look very different in 5 years, isn't it? Not exactly sure what it will look like, but getting ready to buckle up for the ride.

  20. #1470
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben View Post
    Starmer won't last the term.
    If he doesn't I've really no idea what happens. It'll be too early for Reform to pull of the result they look set to at some point, so really not sure what we're left with in the absence of that. If we're back into the merry-go-round of replacing the PM as we did with the Tories, who else is there within Labour?

  21. #1471
    Senior Member Spikey M's Avatar
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    Inevitable without substantial change, unfortunately. And taxing the arse off of businesses and promising growth that isn't happening, is not the answer.

    I'm not too sure what the answer is, which isn't surprising, but neither do Labour, which probably isn't surprising either, really.

  22. #1472

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    I'd imagine if the "far right" swing carries on then we'll become a US-lite. If you're not an immigrant and are in a stable profession then it might be alright.

    Keep an eye on Europe as they're a few years ahead in that respect. There are a few far right governments already but mainly in basket case countries. Finland and Austria could be ones to watch in the near future. And the big one is Germany, I think they'll get there before we do.

  23. #1473
    Senior Member Spikey M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yevrah View Post
    If he doesn't I've really no idea what happens. It'll be too early for Reform to pull of the result they look set to at some point, so really not sure what we're left with in the absence of that. If we're back into the merry-go-round of replacing the PM as we did with the Tories, who else is there within Labour?
    He won't last the term, but Labour will. No chance they call an early election. They'll just repeat what the Tories did.

  24. #1474
    Senior Member Spikey M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben View Post
    I'd imagine if the "far right" swing carries on then we'll become a US-lite. If you're not an immigrant and are in a stable profession then it might be alright.

    Keep an eye on Europe as they're a few years ahead in that respect. There are a few far right governments already but mainly in basket case countries. Finland and Austria could be ones to watch in the near future. And the big one is Germany, I think they'll get there before we do.
    How are Argentina getting on with that nutter they elected?

  25. #1475
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    We need to start with legalising and monetising things that a fuck load of people do. Pot being the most obvious one, but there'll be many others I'm sure.

  26. #1476

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spikey M View Post
    How are Argentina getting on with that nutter they elected?
    Completely tits up for a while but it seems their inflation is cooling and they're getting growth. Whether that's because, or in spite of, the nutter, I don't know. When you're so low, you're bound to see something positive eventually just by having regular people doing stuff.

  27. #1477
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    We're currently at a state of high immigration, high borrowing, zero growth. Somebody solve that equation for me and I'll be back. No one has done so yet. The first two things should not result in zero growth.

  28. #1478
    Senior Member Spikey M's Avatar
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    Wage stagnation (linked to immigration), high housing costs (again, immigration) and steep inflation (I'll let Johnny Foreigner off that one) mean people just don't have money to spend. Hence; no growth.

    Or, rather, growth in places you don't want it. Like in companies that manage/service debt.

  29. #1479

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spikey M View Post
    Or, rather, growth in places you don't want it. Like in companies that manage/service debt.
    That's been our problem since for at least 15 years. When there has been growth, it's not in places you and I ever witness.

    In contrast, go to Poland. Or just look in any city centre on Google Street View, comparing 2010/11 to now. That's how you do it.

  30. #1480
    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben View Post
    I'd imagine if the "far right" swing carries on then we'll become a US-lite. If you're not an immigrant and are in a stable profession then it might be alright.
    Immigrants do great in the US.


    Quote Originally Posted by Spikey M View Post
    How are Argentina getting on with that nutter they elected?
    Things are happening exactly as they were predicted to occur. That's what happens when you elect someone with an actual goal and a proper plan to get there.

  31. #1481
    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spikey M View Post
    Wage stagnation (linked to immigration), high housing costs (again, immigration) and steep inflation (I'll let Johnny Foreigner off that one) mean people just don't have money to spend. Hence; no growth.

    Or, rather, growth in places you don't want it. Like in companies that manage/service debt.
    The first two (housing in particular) are way more due to regulations than immigration. All those pesky foreigners could be building houses on the cheap, you know? If only the government allowed for such a terrible thing to happen.

  32. #1482
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    All essential things (water, energy, housing, transport etc) should be under social control.

    Ban landlords and land/property owners, inc commercial real estate.

    Law that dictates you can earn as much as you want but the multiplier must be only 10x as much as your lowest paid employee.

    Nobody should own more than 1b worth of net worth, however it's made up.

    Allow sex with minors.

  33. #1483
    Senior Member randomlegend's Avatar
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  34. #1484

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    You had me until the end there.

  35. #1485
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    In reality, what's fucked us? We could have kept the same stupid system however;

    Thatcher
    BREXIT
    Tory private sector corruption, mostly but not limited to COVID
    Greed

  36. #1486

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    I love a bit of Thatcher bashing so let's have it.

    Boomers yearn for her return but she really got the ball rolling on fucking us. Ditching all manufacturing and becoming a service economy is why we have nowhere to turn getting out of this mess.

  37. #1487
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    In the modern mind British history seems to start with Thatcher, as if she Mary Poppinsed in from the clouds. You need to do some looking into what caused her to happen. The Heath and second Wilson years in particular.

    Heath has a good claim to worst PM ever, despite the recent parade of rivals for the accolade.

  38. #1488
    Senior Member Spikey M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben View Post
    I love a bit of Thatcher bashing so let's have it.

    Boomers yearn for her return but she really got the ball rolling on fucking us. Ditching all manufacturing and becoming a service economy is why we have nowhere to turn getting out of this mess.
    Not only that, but selling our infrastructure to overseas business men. Or train companies for example. They're basically owned entirely by Italian and German companies, that rip us off so that they can reduce train tickets in their own countries. Which gives them all sorts of competitive advantages. I'm sure there are many other examples of this. The Royal Mail being one of them. Water companies being another.

  39. #1489
    Senior Member niko_cee's Avatar
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    Wasn't the UK a complete basket case prior to Thatcher?

    There must come a point at which it stops being a viable argument to keep blaming things that happened 30/40 years ago.

  40. #1490
    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    I love that you lot constantly talk about how incompetent your government is, yet you want them to be in control of more stuff.

    For anyone interested in Milei:

    Preliminary Milei Report Card

  41. #1491
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Floyd View Post
    In the modern mind British history seems to start with Thatcher, as if she Mary Poppinsed in from the clouds. You need to do some looking into what caused her to happen. The Heath and second Wilson years in particular.

    Heath has a good claim to worst PM ever, despite the recent parade of rivals for the accolade.
    OK so we smoked and got cancer. Thatcher was the chemotherapy and radiotherapy, triple dose, that got rid of the cancer. But the decimation of our immune system has left us crippled and riddled with multiple terminal auto-immune illnesses and we're on life support.

    The only way we can recover is a full reset, a re-birth. This country is absolutely fucked. We are severe late-stage capitalism and the PE takeover will be the final nail.

  42. #1492
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pepe View Post
    I love that you lot constantly talk about how incompetent your government is, yet you want them to be in control of more stuff.

    For anyone interested in Milei:

    Preliminary Milei Report Card
    All our government does is give stuff away to private sector lol. So yes, we'd like to be in control of even a single thing plz. Even if it is breathtakingly incompetent I'd rather that than corrupt private sector.

  43. #1493
    Senior Member Spikey M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by niko_cee View Post
    Wasn't the UK a complete basket case prior to Thatcher?

    There must come a point at which it stops being a viable argument to keep blaming things that happened 30/40 years ago.
    It was a shithole, yes.

    However, one thing I notice over and over again is that we praise / criticise politicians for global events. Did Thatcher really turn things around? Or was she just in power when technology started to tick over into the current age. The west as a whole boomed at the same time, really. The same goes for the dot com bubble bursting, the 2008 financial crisis, etc.

  44. #1494
    Senior Member Spikey M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pepe View Post
    I love that you lot constantly talk about how incompetent your government is, yet you want them to be in control of more stuff.

    For anyone interested in Milei:

    Preliminary Milei Report Card
    If not the government, British companies. Selling your infrastructure abroad is just asset striping.

  45. #1495
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spikey M View Post
    It was a shithole, yes.

    However, one thing I notice over and over again is that we praise / criticise politicians for global events. Did Thatcher really turn things around? Or was she just in power when technology started to tick over into the current age. The west as a whole boomed at the same time, really. The same goes for the dot com bubble bursting, the 2008 financial crisis, etc.
    Giving free publicly owned stuff away to rich people so they can make even more money stimulates the economy.

  46. #1496
    Senior Member Spikey M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic View Post
    Giving free publicly owned stuff away to rich people so they can make even more money stimulates the economy.
    Granted. But was she the brains behind that, or - as I suspect - was she just doing what America was doing?

  47. #1497
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spikey M View Post
    Granted. But was she the brains behind that, or - as I suspect - was she just doing what America was doing?
    Yeah it was in tandem.

    Absolute short termism and benefited very few. But ECONOMY and GROWTH and all that.

  48. #1498
    Senior Member niko_cee's Avatar
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    Did it really benefit very few?

    It's only really post-2008, when interest rates went to zero and massive asset value transfers to the wealthy on the back of that really kicked in that things seem to have gone off the previous generally upward trajectory, and even then, there are probably other, competing reasons for why things are as they are at the moment - ageing population etc - if they even are that bad.

  49. #1499
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    You can't on one hand say the Boomers have ruined our lives by accruing and then hording all the wealth and on the other say that nobody of Boomer age benefitted from what was happening at the time in the 80s. It's moronic.

  50. #1500
    Senior Member Serj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben View Post
    I'd imagine if the "far right" swing carries on then we'll become a US-lite. If you're not an immigrant and are in a stable profession then it might be alright.

    Keep an eye on Europe as they're a few years ahead in that respect. There are a few far right governments already but mainly in basket case countries. Finland and Austria could be ones to watch in the near future. And the big one is Germany, I think they'll get there before we do.
    Our (Austria's) version of this will presumably be an inverted version of the coaltion we've already had twice: Freedom Party (right-wing) as senior partners this time, with our Conservatives (People's Party) in a new role as junior partner. I think the playbook will very much be modelled after Hungary (and Slovakia, I guess): defund our public broadcasting service and replace it with something much more friendly to their messaging, then entrench themselves in key positions and probably try to coopt the judiciary Poland-style.

    Fuck knows what the foreign policy will be. The Freedom Party is very pro-Russia, but I'm not sure the Conservatives (pro-EU) will be having that.

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