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View Poll Results: Who's "winning" the Sack Race?

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  • Bilic

    4 21.05%
  • Scott "Scotty" Parker

    4 21.05%
  • Ole Gunnar Binman

    8 42.11%
  • Stone Cold Sean Dyche

    1 5.26%
  • Super Frankie Lampard

    0 0%
  • Chris Wilder

    2 10.53%
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Thread: November football: The Sack Race

  1. #551
    Senior Member Spikey M's Avatar
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    I'm not sure I even agree with the premise that we have a really good group of players. Historically we always have one part of the team that's amazing. Currently it's our attack. We remain shite the other side of the half way line.

  2. #552
    Bookie Sir Andy Mahowry's Avatar
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    Don't forget there is a goalkeeper who loves a fuck up.

  3. #553
    Senior Member -james-'s Avatar
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    Well find me an international side from the last half decade that's not quite flawed in some area.

    Once you get to the semi finals you're only two games away and you don't even need to win them. It's anyone's game at that stage.

    There are plenty of universes in which England beat Croatia, and then it's 90 minutes against France. I don't see how winning that is completely outwith the realms of probability.

  4. #554
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    I'd give us an 18% shot at winning the World Cup from pre-semi final. Based on that, off the top of my head, I'd give us a 9% shot at winning the next Euros (5% at the World Cup to account for Brazil). That would be 11/1 or so. Going to guess we're about that at the sportsbooks. Let's have a look.

    5/1 Fuck off.

  5. #555
    Senior Member -james-'s Avatar
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    If you've got England 11/1 then I'd love to see the rest of your book.

    My point isn't that England are going to win the Euros, are likely to win the Euros, or are a bet to win the Euros. Just that joint fav is about right, and it could feasibly happen.

  6. #556
    The Artist Formerly Known as Taz
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    They ain't in the same class as a full strength and motivated France or Belgium for me.

  7. #557
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by -james- View Post
    If you've got England 11/1 then I'd love to see the rest of your book.

    My point isn't that England are going to win the Euros, are likely to win the Euros, or are a bet to win the Euros. Just that joint fav is about right, and it could feasibly happen.
    My book is a lot more fractured than the actual one and I think it's a lot more wide open, except for France who with their pedigree and depth should be short price favourites regardless of their irrelevant winter performances.

  8. #558
    Senior Member -james-'s Avatar
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    It's a shame the wetwipe 24 team format basically removes it as a possibility because they're well overdue a humiliating group stage exit.

  9. #559
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    Quote Originally Posted by -james- View Post
    If you've got England 11/1 then I'd love to see the rest of your book.

    My point isn't that England are going to win the Euros, are likely to win the Euros, or are a bet to win the Euros. Just that joint fav is about right, and it could feasibly happen.
    This is madness. I don't know how old you are, so I'm going to guess younger than me and say that one day, trust me, you'll have a horrible realisation that not only should England never be counted as one of the favourites, they actually have so little chance of actually winning something that it rounds to no chance.

    Other than 1966 (a complete and utter outlier), we've never been a team that's capable of doing anything more than reaching a semi-final and only then if the draw goes our way, we have a bit of luck, or both.

    There is absolutely nothing to suggest so far that this team will be any different.

  10. #560
    Administrator SvN's Avatar
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    You're being emotional about it Yev. Belgium have never won fuck all either, yet they're even more fancied than we are.

  11. #561
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    Quote Originally Posted by SvN View Post
    You're being emotional about it Yev. Belgium have never won fuck all either, yet they're even more fancied than we are.
    Are you honestly comparing the quality of our players to that of Belgium's?

  12. #562
    Senior Member niko_cee's Avatar
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    Aren't all of Belgium's defenders ancient and/or a bit shit now?

    Shame we went with the zero pace approach against them the other day.

  13. #563
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    Belgium have a better overall team but there isn’t a huge difference player on player. Suppose they have the best player in the world in Eden Hazard to come back.

  14. #564
    Administrator SvN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yevrah View Post
    Are you honestly comparing the quality of our players to that of Belgium's?
    Your post basically said "We never win anything and we never will, because we're England". That's crap, and our historical failures have very llittle bearing on how we'll perform at future tournements.

  15. #565
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    Quote Originally Posted by SvN View Post
    Your post basically said "We never win anything and we never will, because we're England". That's crap, and our historical failures have very llittle bearing on how we'll perform at future tournements.
    The point was (and admittedly I could have been clearer) we routinely overrate the ability of English players (largely because the Premier League is so good). That's what I used to do and that's exactly what anyone thinking we should be among the favourites for anything is still doing.

  16. #566
    Senior Member -james-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yevrah View Post
    This is madness. I don't know how old you are, so I'm going to guess younger than me and say that one day, trust me, you'll have a horrible realisation that not only should England never be counted as one of the favourites, they actually have so little chance of actually winning something that it rounds to no chance.

    Other than 1966 (a complete and utter outlier), we've never been a team that's capable of doing anything more than reaching a semi-final and only then if the draw goes our way, we have a bit of luck, or both.

    There is absolutely nothing to suggest so far that this team will be any different.

    You grow up supporting England, get excited every two or four years because they have a "good crop of players", and you end up disappointed every time. Eventually this evolves to "we're England, we always disappoint", and each time you are proven right. Eventually you substitute the excitement that maybe this time England will win it for the satisfaction that at least you have that part of life sussed; England are shit and will never win a world cup.

    Your post completely encapsulates the mindset I'm talking about. It's a completely emotional and has no grounding in logic. There's a reason that probably 99.5% of entrants to world cups are way bigger than 5/1 to win it; even if they're good/fancied, tournament football is a total crapshoot.

  17. #567
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    What is it you see in our players or manager that make you think we should be considered among the favourites?

  18. #568
    Senior Member Spikey M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by -james- View Post
    You grow up supporting England, get excited every two or four years because they have a "good crop of players", and you end up disappointed every time. Eventually this evolves to "we're England, we always disappoint", and each time you are proven right. Eventually you substitute the excitement that maybe this time England will win it for the satisfaction that at least you have that part of life sussed; England are shit and will never win a world cup.

    Your post completely encapsulates the mindset I'm talking about. It's a completely emotional and has no grounding in logic. There's a reason that probably 99.5% of entrants to world cups are way bigger than 5/1 to win it; even if they're good/fancied, tournament football is a total crapshoot.
    Expecting a long running trend to continue is a rational position. When I say that Southend United won't make it to the Premier League I'm not being emotional.

  19. #569
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    It should probably be pointed out that the reason France, Germany and Portugal are all a bit long is they are in each other's group and so one of them has a chance to be knocked out or spat into the path of another big team in round 2, whereas we have been drawn with the more minor regions of Europe.

  20. #570
    Senior Member -james-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yevrah View Post
    What is it you see in our players or manager that make you think we should be considered among the favourites?
    World cup performance where I thought they were largely good. Recent games against Belgium which were, at worst, evenly matched. Attacking options that few other sides can match. Defence not actually that bad is it? 4 goals in last 8 games against mostly decent opposition.

    What European sides are good? Germany are tripe, lost 6-0 last week. France are obviously decent but consistently look absolutely terrible and are very much beatable. For Spain I challenge you to name 3 players who started for them last week.

    It's not that England are incredible, it's that nobody is. Every time a tournament comes round people are reminded that the standard of international football is really bad. I think the anglocentricism that you propose overrates English players also massively overrates other national teams.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Floyd View Post
    It should probably be pointed out that the reason France, Germany and Portugal are all a bit long is they are in each other's group and so one of them has a chance to be knocked out or spat into the path of another big team in round 2, whereas we have been drawn with the more minor regions of Europe.
    This is true, but England are also on track to get one of them in the second round.

  21. #571
    Senior Member -james-'s Avatar
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    I don't think there's another international side in Europe that creates as much from open play as England.

  22. #572
    Senior Member Manc's Avatar
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  23. #573
    Senior Member Spikey M's Avatar
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    What a hill to die on.

  24. #574
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    I assume you missed all the sideways passing against Belgium and the zero in the 0-2 result.

  25. #575
    The Artist Formerly Known as Taz
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    James, post some xG and I'll fucking wade in and slay these melts for you.

  26. #576
    Senior Member Spikey M's Avatar
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    Is there an xC(ockups) for Pickford?

  27. #577
    Senior Member -james-'s Avatar
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    Yeah tbf that last statement is a bit outlandish but that's because Southgate is a melt. The capacity to spank the riffraff is definitely there.

  28. #578
    Won the Old Board Lewis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by -james- View Post
    Well find me an international side from the last half decade that's not quite flawed in some area.

    Once you get to the semi finals you're only two games away and you don't even need to win them. It's anyone's game at that stage.

    There are plenty of universes in which England beat Croatia, and then it's 90 minutes against France. I don't see how winning that is completely outwith the realms of probability.
    How come ninety-five per cent of the time the best team wins those two games rather than 'anyone'? We could have beaten Croatia. We could have beaten France. Beating Croatia and then beating France...

  29. #579
    Senior Member Manc's Avatar
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    Are Portugal still playing defence first? I'd fancy Ronaldo, Jota, Silva, Felix & Fernandes to do the business in tight games. 14/1 is enticing.

  30. #580
    Senior Member -james-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewis View Post
    How come ninety-five per cent of the time the best team wins those two games rather than 'anyone'? We could have beaten Croatia. We could have beaten France. Beating Croatia and then beating France...
    Because the team that wins shapes the narrative. France had the best players, but I'm not really sure they were the best team at the tournament (Brazil?). I don't think Portugal weren't the best team at Euro 2016 either.

  31. #581
    Senior Member igor_balis's Avatar
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    Despite us consistently disappointing and underachieving for decades(even this is a bit overplayed imo), to extrapolate from that any kind of serious future predictions is deranged. Getting beat on penalties in major tournaments over a decade ago, seaman getting lobbed by Ronaldinho, losing against Croatia in 2008 qualifiers...it has as much relevance to our chances at the euros as Stuart Pearce throwing David James on as a striker does to man city's title ambitions this season.

  32. #582
    Senior Member Spikey M's Avatar
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    Igor taking every possible opportunity to take contrarian positions in the past has no relevance to him taking this contrarian position.

  33. #583
    Senior Member igor_balis's Avatar
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    It's easy to be contrarian on a forum full of divs like you MATE. Fight me.

  34. #584
    ram it up your shitpipe Giggles's Avatar
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  35. #585
    I used to be funny.
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    Historically, England's good for a Quarter final exit. The names change but we're broadly the same quality.

  36. #586
    ram it up your shitpipe Giggles's Avatar
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    Didn’t fucking do much good did it? It’s the excuse to sack him now though.



  37. #587
    Senior Member Manc's Avatar
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    It's got to go down as one of the worst tenures in management if he's booted.

  38. #588
    ram it up your shitpipe Giggles's Avatar
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    He’d have needed 10 convincing victories to win over the soccer public here anyway, where the epl is king.

  39. #589
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    I did lol at that story, and the idea of the awkward silence in the room.

    'Apart from the aqueduct, sanitation, a fully professional league in which to ply our trade, a birthplace...'

  40. #590
    ram it up your shitpipe Giggles's Avatar
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    Yeah it was/is all great.

  41. #591
    Senior Member ScousePig's Avatar
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    On a completely unrelated note (and to make you all feel better), Sunderland lost at home to MK Dons last Saturday, and in the week prior lost to both Fleetwood and Mansfield.

    And nobody will have batted an eyelid.

  42. #592
    ram it up your shitpipe Giggles's Avatar
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    Do they still make the tv show?

  43. #593
    Senior Member ScousePig's Avatar
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    No, it's been shelved. There were rumours I think that it might start up again, and you'd imagine it would be popular with the shit-show still in full swing.

    However, it may be coming to an end. Our new owners finally look set to be announced, with Juan Sartori taking more of a leading role and Kyril Louis-Dreyfus joining him.

    http://wisemensay.co.uk/a-new-dawn/
    Last edited by ScousePig; 20-11-2020 at 08:53 PM.

  44. #594
    I used to be funny.
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    He looks old enough to be playing.

  45. #595
    ram it up your shitpipe Giggles's Avatar
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    It was Alan Kelly (GK coach) and someone else that shopped Kenny to the FAI apparently. Was thinking that asthma story was a bit dodgy the other night.

  46. #596
    The Artist Formerly Known as Taz
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    Seeing Coventry-Birmingham on soccerway has got me all emotional. I won't be watching but we did it boys, we got through it all. Thanks to each and every one of you because there was some wobbles. I might wank to a pic of Wullie's avatar to celebrate tonight.

  47. #597
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    I've got the Chelsea game on talksport and the summariser is Super Schteve McClaren, who has just referred to Chelsea concentrating on 'playing that tick-tick football as they like to do'. Any ideas?

    To his credit, he is the only person in the country who appears able to say 'Ziyech' properly.

  48. #598
    Senior Member igor_balis's Avatar
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    Tick ting football, taz's football philosophy.

  49. #599
    Senior Member igor_balis's Avatar
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    Villa Brighton has been terrific fun.

  50. #600
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    McClaren's co-commentary was a treat from start to finish (I went out on a long walk down the Thames with it soothing my ears). He really stuck to his guns with the tick-tick-tick stuff - he maxed out at five ticks, without ever explaining what he meant - and kept making sexual purring noises in the background, leading the play-by-play man to break off for Steve's thoughts, but Steve never had any thoughts, leading to an uncomfortable amount of dead air. At 1-0 up and Newcastle missing chances, he kept saying "the difference between the sides is that Chelsea have been clinical in front of goal" (we led through a Fernandez og). Steve really did sound like Twente Steve throughout, peaking when he said: "Well, as we always say in football, no two halves are ever the same." I swear literally no one in football has ever said that.

    Finally he signed off by awarding the man of the match to N'Golo Kanté, who he described as the glue in the Chelsea side, also adding that "he's really added more to his game since I last watched him - he looks up and looks to play the ball forward". Presumably Steve last watched him when he was Claude Makelele.

    9/10, would listen again.

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