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Thread: Crusader Kings 3

  1. #101
    I used to be funny.
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    That's one way to achieve world peace.

  2. #102
    Webly Ian's Avatar
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    Gorm would have mullered all them puny Romans.

  3. #103
    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    Conquered France and now I am way in over my head. To make matters worse, the don of a character I was doing died and everyone hates my current one, which does look kind of useless. His son looks even worse too.

    Apparently, I can create a bunch of titles (duchies I think). Why should or shouldn't I do that?

  4. #104
    Webly Ian's Avatar
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    You gain prestige for doing so and if the people you give them to actually like you it'd give you some more powerful vassals who're on your side. Plus it's just less micro management as if you grant somebody a duchy they'll manage the counties for you so you'll have less vassals that you're directly responsible for.

  5. #105
    Webly Ian's Avatar
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    Well after the aforementioned lively start the sadist patricide man's reign was pretty chill, probably helped by a good amount of dread to keep the worst of the factions and rebellions away. I mopped up the Duchy to the south of me and have started making inroads into India. Honestly there's barely anybody in the subcontinent who'd have a chance against my nearly 5000-strong army so if I can just get the claims and whatnot then working towards the Bengali Empire is not, from a pure manpower perspective, going to be that hard. I doubt getting diplomacy perks to allow more vassalisation options is going to work as I'm starting to run into a lot of other kings (or renames thereof) so it's probably going to be more of the familiar fabricate / invade / rinse / repeat cycle I expect.

    Still, the patricide popped his clogs and now his son is in charge. He's not amazing at any one thing but has a good intrigue education. I'd already married him to a diplomacy savant so I'll have her assisting with that side of things and do a bit of intrigue focus as I've not gone into that tree at all yet. It looks a bit.... meh? Being able to give yourself 30 dread as a baseline as nice but basically most of one tree is dedicated to successfully fucking people and one is dedicated to getting benefits from torturing folk (that'll stress my new character the fuck out but I should maybe have dabbled in some of this as the last one) so I think it has less utility than the other trees so far but we'll see, maybe I'm not giving it time to show its true worth.

    The first five years or so of this reign have mostly been spent putting down factions who want Crown Authority lowered which I've achieved so far with Sway schemes and marrying off spare kids to powerful vassals for alliances. I'm sitting on about 1200 gold average at the moment though so once I think that's settled down we'll see how best to use it.

  6. #106
    Senior Member Disco's Avatar
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    I feel more drawn to the perks which give passive buffs rather than ones that improve certain actions, they feel like better value. I also like how the game seems to provide more opportunities to expand or make money than in 2. It actively tells you about useful claimants and I feel much less constrained by cash flow. Building a new holding now seems a much more attainable prospect rather than something you have to plan a hundred years ahead.

    What is everyone using for retinues? I have an upgraded siege equipment group and it feels super OP, siege time has gone from 5 months to about 5-6 weeks. I was drawn into a war between France and the HRE and my merry little band had smashed most of Holland and Belgium before the French had taken the target county. Aside from that I'm going Footmen/Heavy Inf and getting buildings to suit but I have no idea if using skirmishers would end up causing more casualties.

  7. #107
    Custom User Title phonics's Avatar
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    I click the Raise All Armies button then click on the bad guy and hope my number is higher than theirs.

  8. #108
    Webly Ian's Avatar
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    Yeah gold is much easier come by this time even if you don't go balls-deep into Stewardship. I also agree about the passive buffs. Intrigue does give you some of that but some of them feel like they're more about stopping things happening which is just fundamentally less fun than Diplomacy, say, when you suddenly have more options for claiming land. This is only me dipping my toes into Intrigue so far (this guy had already pumped [oi oi] a load of points into the Seduction tree when I took over him) so I'll have a proper play with it and see how it works but it really feels like the stuff I'd rather just let my spymaster worry about.

    Having a siege equipment man-at-arms definitely makes a huge difference. I wouldn't ever not have that now because let's be honest, sieges are a pain in the arse. Getting a leader with some Martial upgrades that buff it and the siege workshop really is overkill.

    I currently have (all maxed out in terms of numbers):
    Armored footmen
    Light footmen
    Light (I think?) cavalry
    Bowmen
    Onagers

    I'm tempted to swap out the light footmen and get me some elephants but they're super pricey for something I won't ever actually see.

  9. #109
    Senior Member Disco's Avatar
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    They seem expensive across the board, an 800 man retinue cost me 3 gold a month to upkeep.

  10. #110
    Webly Ian's Avatar
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    I assume that's when in-use?

    They're definitely not cheap anyway, though I'm so worried about anything dreadful happening I try to keep a 400-500 gold buffer on the go at all times. I'm keeping it higher (around 1200) at this point of my save because I keep having to give people "gifts" to stop factions overwhelming me but once it settles down I'm gonna consider buying the big fancy duchy building which costs a grand but will give me big Development buffs.

    One issue I'm having is there are a bunch of improvements that require a Keep but I'm not sure if I can build one or not. I certainly can't see it in the culture improvements bit and it's not an option to build in any Holding I can see.

  11. #111
    Bookie P_3's Avatar
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    I've jumped on the free CK2 download on Steam and have been putting a fair few hours in. Currently on a very early run in Italy having fathered a "clubfooted" girl, boy with a "lisp" and an "ugly" boy.

  12. #112
    Senior Member Disco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    I assume that's when in-use?

    They're definitely not cheap anyway, though I'm so worried about anything dreadful happening I try to keep a 400-500 gold buffer on the go at all times. I'm keeping it higher (around 1200) at this point of my save because I keep having to give people "gifts" to stop factions overwhelming me but once it settles down I'm gonna consider buying the big fancy duchy building which costs a grand but will give me big Development buffs.

    One issue I'm having is there are a bunch of improvements that require a Keep but I'm not sure if I can build one or not. I certainly can't see it in the culture improvements bit and it's not an option to build in any Holding I can see.
    Unless I'm reading this wrong it's 3 unraised and 9 raised. In hindsight I shouldn't have raised the second Footmen anywhere near this early but I've sunk the money into it now. Perhaps I'll save them for crucial wars/battles but then are they worth it if you're not going to use them much?

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  13. #113
    Webly Ian's Avatar
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    I'll check my costs next time I play but that seems much pricier than mine.

  14. #114
    Senior Member Disco's Avatar
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    Could be that Footmen are just more expensive, that would make some sense. Good luck with elephants in that case.

  15. #115
    Webly Ian's Avatar
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    I'm sure I have 5/5 armored footmen and the cost isn't the equivalent of what you're paying. They do look better though so maybe they're better upgraded. I'm sure even the elephants weren't looking to cost me 3 unraised. I'll have a proper look later but it does certainly seem like they're more to be raised in a pinch at the prices you have, if you're not convinced a levy swarm will be enough to do the job.

  16. #116
    Webly Ian's Avatar
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    So mine aren't as strong but I don't think that factors into it, and they're also pricier than I thought:
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    I guess I was probably just remembering the initial price before I upped the amount I have. And give you have more than me the cost seems about the same per 100.

    The initial cost for the elephants would be 2.94 raised, .84 unraised.

    275 damage though.

  17. #117
    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    Lol at worrying about the cost of bloody WAR ELEPHANTS. That's the kind for stuff you get no matter what.

  18. #118
    Webly Ian's Avatar
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    If I was going to get to see them trampling people there'd be no question about it, but what I'm paying for is basically just a +x%.

    That's not to say I won't do it.

  19. #119
    Custom User Title phonics's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disco View Post
    Unless I'm reading this wrong it's 3 unraised and 9 raised. In hindsight I shouldn't have raised the second Footmen anywhere near this early but I've sunk the money into it now. Perhaps I'll save them for crucial wars/battles but then are they worth it if you're not going to use them much?

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    Wait would the Men-At-Arms add men to my army? No wonder I lose every big war.

  20. #120
    Senior Member Disco's Avatar
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    Yes, not many though and I've no idea if they're actually worth it (apart from the siege equipment group, who are massively OP).

  21. #121
    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    They are supposed to be more talented than the common soldiers, aren't they?

  22. #122
    Webly Ian's Avatar
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    Yeah I'm sure when I've thought to check my battle stats that the men at arms properly munch levies.

    I've no idea of the exact weighting yet, Phonics, but basically when you hover over at army it'll give it a rating where I think Elite is the highest, made up of quality of troops (i.e. what percentage of your army is trained, heavily armed lads and what percentage is farm boys) plus the commander they have and the quality of their knights so an elite army would take down a bigger force of scrublords, within reason.

  23. #123
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    I've got this game to try and fill some of the yawning autumn months ahead. I've not played the previous versions but have played Paradox games before. Even after the sudden realisation upon loading the game up that I fundamentally don't understand pre-Westphalian statehood or any of the relevant terminology, which caused my head to explode in about six stages, I thought it would be a reasonably easy game to pick up.

    I thought wrong. After a couple of tutorial goes to get used to it (Narrator: he did not get used to it) I somewhat foolishly played as Asturias, thinking I would sit in there for a while building up money/prestige and then eventually aim to try and get some of the rest of Spain back from the Arabs. I even got France as an ally through marriage, so thought I was sitting pretty (Narrator: he was not sitting pretty).

    Next thing that happens is that about 4 different Moorish princes/generals decide to invade me at the same time, claiming different parts of my territory. I call in good old Charles the Bald with his vast French armies to help us, but really I should have known that allying with the French would be a complete waste of time, as they strolled into Iberia, ponced about, avoided all battles despite having superior numbers to the Islamic hordes, and then ponced out again, leaving us to burn in the name of Allah and have our territory halved within about 3 years.

    I had an army to see off maybe one of the Moorish princes, but I couldn't deal with multiple fronts and ended up just surrendering. However, the annoying thing is that my various brothers and cousins (all vassals holding different bits of northern Spain) have nice chunky armies that could have helped deal with at least some of the Islamic bumming - however, rather than help out, they spent the whole war(s) pointlessly duffing each other up on the sidelines, even while all serving as my councillors.

    How on earth do I get my useless family onside for wars? Even the ones with a really high opinion of me (such as my blind heir) I can't seem to find a way to get them involved.

  24. #124
    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    Vassals provide soldiers to your army automatically, don't they? Also, when a war is declared, sometimes I get a message that says that I can invite house members to the war or something like that. Did you get that?

    This is one game where trying to understand everything that is going on is not the right way to play. You just have to go with it and see what happens. Basically, you are in it for the lols.

  25. #125
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    Nope, I didn't get anything like that and they had their own ('neutral') armies sitting about getting pissed on rioja while the Muslims tear us a new one.

    I do love the kind of role-playing, family-building, fucking around aspect of it. Never seen that sort of thing so well implemented in a game. It's more fun than the political/economic slog I was expecting from other Paradox games I've played.

  26. #126
    Senior Member Disco's Avatar
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    If you have actual allies they can be invited to join your war but family members may not automatically be allies. You can right click on them and propose an alliance (I think) and some marriages will give you one. You can see current allies by clicking on yourself and looking for their coat of arms (the one on the map also changes to have some little flags above it too).

    Iberia can be a rough spot to try and learn in as you tend to get piled on pretty quickly. I would also avoid the earlier start date as quite a bit of Europe gets raided by Vikings for a while. It's a shame there's only two dates as a post Norman England would be a nice, familiar place to learn in.

    I've been mucking about with intrigue perks and they really are quite powerful. In particular abducting your enemies just after you declare war on them (I feel this will be patched out quite soon as it feels very cheesy). Or my new favourite, fabricating hooks; I'm playing as the lone Habsburg in 1066 and it was very easy to get zero taxes or levies and to slip my family members into line for some nice juicy titles. The only issue I see is it being very stressful for characters with particularly virtuous traits.

  27. #127
    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Floyd View Post
    Nope, I didn't get anything like that and they had their own ('neutral') armies sitting about getting pissed on rioja while the Muslims tear us a new one.

    I do love the kind of role-playing, family-building, fucking around aspect of it. Never seen that sort of thing so well implemented in a game. It's more fun than the political/economic slog I was expecting from other Paradox games I've played.
    This game only makes sense once you realize that it is not your usual 'conquer the world' affair and treat it as The Sims: Medieval Edition' instead. I could never get into CK2, but I am loving this one.

    Conquered France, lost it, conquered it again, and now I am wondering how I am going to keep away the Muslims who have taken over most of Spain and are moving northwards.

  28. #128
    Webly Ian's Avatar
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    I'll do a proper update tomorrow as some stuff has actually happened but in the meantime have a glimpse at my new character (I would like to stress I have not amended his appearance / attire, this is him as he was first presented to me.)

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  29. #129
    I used to be funny.
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    A born winner.

  30. #130
    DEATH TO THE WEIRD Raoul Duke's Avatar
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    Did you mean to crop out the stats for length and girth?

  31. #131
    Webly Ian's Avatar
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    I didn't want to show off.

  32. #132
    Custom User Title phonics's Avatar
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    I've given up on a 876 start. I picked a small random nobody and kept myself to myself and spent my entire time being raided by people with slightly more men than me and having my raids defeated by people with slightly more men than me. Yet, I still managed to build up my income enough that when a neighbour declared war and beat them in the field, siege their city but my war score only went up to +20%, soon after 2 other people declared war on me and I managed to lose all 3 wars while never losing any individual battle. Baffling.

  33. #133
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    I had another go last night in 867 as Prince Hywel of South Wales (not going to attempt to spell the name of the actual principality I'm ruling) and had a lot more success (not uniformly, but I didn't get turbo-bummed). Siphoned off Gwent, Brecon and a conquered Hereford as lordships for my three sons, which I'm hoping will cause some fun and laughter down the line.

    My useless bishop was costing me 50 piety every year or so due to his terrible learning stats. I can't get rid of him so the only option was to try a murder. The assassin got into his one-bed flat in Swansea and then bottled it, not only failing to murder him but also blurting out my name as the conspirator. I am therefore hated by slow old Bishop Emrys and still have no way of getting rid of the bastard.

    My steward is also absolutely useless (10 being the highest stat of anyone in the principality) so I have no money. A Czech guy with 18 stewardship turned up from nowhere and I had him lined up to take over, before he unhelpfully got killed by the Mercians during a siege, condemning us to years more of shit tax takes.

    Wales is now split in half, the roughly equally sized and equipped Gwynedd being the northern half. In an ideal world I'd like to try and unite the kingdom of Wales, but I might have to be patient as they are allied to good old Charles the Bald of France, whose follicle deficiencies do not stop him from having the biggest army nearby. Prince Rhodri of Gwynedd also has 8 kids so it might be a bit of a challenge to get there via scheming/marriage as well.

    It's a great game: so much to it, of so little consequence, and yet such fun.

  34. #134
    Senior Member Disco's Avatar
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    I'm sick of the sister-fucking Swiss mucking up my carefully laid plans.

    My plan to have most of Burgundy fall into my lap has now necessitated marrying 2 sons to the same duchess, a war to get one of them out of prison, the subsequent murder of the other and the seduction of said Duchess before a suitable heir could be produced. Not to mention the multiple wars joined to keep her in office.

    I then died of stress.

  35. #135
    Webly Ian's Avatar
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    That does sound pretty stressful, to be fair.

  36. #136
    Senior Member Disco's Avatar
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    On the upside, when my mum dies, I'll get the duchies of Savoy and probably Piedmont too. I can then make the kingdom of Burgundy and start sowing Europe with little Habsburgs and see how famous we can get.

  37. #137
    Webly Ian's Avatar
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    Well i think the game has somehow managed to lose (or not save when it appeared to have done so) my entire session from yesterday so I'm now back to about 20 years prior with no holy order helping me claim some land I'd taken through Holy War, etc. and most importantly the naked bear I had taken over is now back to being a 14 year old gimp.

    That is really rather irritating.

  38. #138
    Senior Member Disco's Avatar
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    That's a bit rubbish, no rolling autosaves either? I know the manual ones aren't stored locally, or at least not in the same place.

    To change tack slightly, how does one become naked? I'm yet to see a single one or see the option.

  39. #139
    Webly Ian's Avatar
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    Re: the saves it seems (possibly post-update) something has gone wrong with cloud saving, so I have the automated rolling saves but it didn't like them and it only tells you it's not happy with the save file on the load screen which I hadn't been checking. So I dunno why that suddenly started being a dick.

    As for nudity I'm guessing maybe it's more prevalent in the part of the world I'm playing in, @Cord has just started an Africa save so we'll see if he encounters any. You can change your character's appearance using the little icon at the top middle-right of the main character screen, amend their clothing or whatever. It lets me pick culturally inappropriate clothing (as in European stuff, not just 'baws oot') so it might let you also have the nakedness option, I'm not sure.

  40. #140
    Senior Member Cord's Avatar
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    The lads down in Kru are all quite sensibly attired, Ian. I think there must be something about you that has spawned a dynasty of perverts.

  41. #141
    Webly Ian's Avatar
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    I suppose as the head of the Burmese culture I have to take some responsibility for those but I'm not taking the blame for India being at it.

  42. #142
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    I had a right shitter last night. My heir and all of his family bar one son were wiped out by bubonic plague, leaving me (a man in his late 50s) with a nine year old as heir apparent. That nine year old then developed the congenital trait 'Possessed', i.e. by demon spirits, so I face a possible hereditary line of mental cases. I was tempted to try and bump him off and shift the heirship to another son, but that seemed harsh on the kid, so instead I arranged his betrothal to one of my daughters. It's a little inbred, but then this is Wales. When they're old enough to get jiggy I'm hoping we won't yet have been annihilated by the Vikings and can then look to try and spread into North Wales, an amibition I have already failed in two claim-wars due to their geezer Prince Rhodri having 39 rating as a military commander (it seems no amount of numerical superiority can overcome this issue).

    It's the first game I've encountered where losing / fucking up is as much fun as winning.

  43. #143
    Webly Ian's Avatar
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    Stick with it, Jimmy. I look forward to your long line of inbred psychopaths.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Floyd View Post
    39 rating as a military commander
    Fucking hell.

  44. #144
    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    I didn't even know you could go that high.

    What is the max number?

  45. #145
    Webly Ian's Avatar
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    I've no idea if there is, in theory, a maximum but I assume that he's been born with a decent base then got an 4* education trait from somebody and picked up other traits along the way and then maybe a good boost from having his spouse specifically helping him with Martial stuff?

    39 is monstrous though. I was well pleased to see that my Spymaster was up to 32 intrigue.

  46. #146
    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    I'm happy when I can get double digits on anything.

  47. #147
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    His military rating for the character is 24 but when you go into a battle with him, his commander strategy rating (I assume that's what the chess pieces mean?) is 39.

  48. #148
    Webly Ian's Avatar
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    I'm disappointed if my character doesn't have at least on attribute at 15ish+.

    I suspect it won't be clear for a while until people have played multiple long saves with different focuses but I suspect that the bloodline stuff in the Dynasty Legacies is the way to go, because it reinforces good traits, increases the chance of not just retaining good traits but developing new ones and also of losing / not developing bad ones. I've gone for the first couple of legacies in that tree and my children already frequently have the trait Comely or one of the better ones so it's not that hard to get stuff like that in place.

    EDIT: Ah, that makes more sense. I can't remember exactly what that number is made up of, it probably tells you if you hover over it.

  49. #149
    Custom User Title phonics's Avatar
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    It's Prowess + Military rating I think.

  50. #150
    Senior Member Disco's Avatar
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    The little closed helm with a chess piece next to it is Advantage which is a damage modifier I believe. So a higher number doesn't necessarily make one side better as it depends on the base stats of your troops. It also varies during battles so there's probably a random roll going on in there somewhere.

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