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Thread: College (and NBA) Hoops

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    College (and NBA) Hoops

    Anyone interested in this?

    I started watching some NCAA basketball last year because it's super entertaining. There's enough mistakes so it's competitive for the most part and college sport in general is great. Last year duke and Villanova were quality to watch. All those good guys have fucked off to the NBA though.

    Going to follow Kansas this year I think. My cousin went to the same school as Quentin Grimes and said he was a monster when he played with him / watched him. He seems legit, 21 points in his first game against Michigan state.

    Who's you team? Who should I follow? Is anyone going to be as good as di Vincenzo was in the natty and most importantly, where the fuck is Allie LaCofce hiding?

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    Senior Member 7om's Avatar
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    I became a college ball fan after moving to the US and ended up preferring it to the NBA. I also got quite lucky as my next door neighbor was a former NCAA coach and his son was 6'9 and got a D1 scholarship.

    As for this year it's all about Zion Williamson. The kid looks like an absolute fucking freak of nature so I'd love to see him lead Duke all the way.

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    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    The Great Wall down?

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    Custom User Title phonics's Avatar
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    I hate college basketball, it's like watching FIBA. The only good thing is they actually call travels.

    Also it's lame because Duke always get the best players even though they're DEFINITELY NOT PAYING THEM SEVERAL HUNDRED GRAND A YEAR.

    Although the NBA is also pretty lame this year because everyone I like is so bad. Except Giannis obviously.

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    Senior Member 7om's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phonics View Post
    I hate college basketball, it's like watching FIBA. The only good thing is they actually call travels.

    Also it's lame because Duke always get the best players even though they're DEFINITELY NOT PAYING THEM SEVERAL HUNDRED GRAND A YEAR.

    Although the NBA is also pretty lame this year because everyone I like is so bad. Except Giannis obviously.
    I've grown to dislike the NBA style now. And that is one pass to the star player, run an isolation and either a drive or contested jump shot. That wears thin pretty fast unless you're Steph Curry lobbing them in from half court.

    In college games they actually play team basketball to make up for the comparative lack of skill and I personally find that more pleasing to watch.

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    Custom User Title phonics's Avatar
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    You should watch Boston or the Sixers in that case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7om View Post
    I became a college ball fan after moving to the US and ended up preferring it to the NBA. I also got quite lucky as my next door neighbor was a former NCAA coach and his son was 6'9 and got a D1 scholarship.

    As for this year it's all about Zion Williamson. The kid looks like an absolute fucking freak of nature so I'd love to see him lead Duke all the way.
    Heard a lot about him and have the duke Kentucky game recorded so will give that a watch tonight.

    Marvin bagley III last year was great, same with the Michigan boy Werner so hopefully some good guys like that appear this year.

    Really liked the look of the other Kansas freshman Dotson too. Proper nippy little fucker.

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    Senior Member 7om's Avatar
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    Joel Embiid needs to learn to keep his mouth shut until he actually starts winning. Sick of him. @phonics

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    G
    o

    c
    a
    n
    e
    s
    !

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    holy shit the no caps thing is absurd.

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    Senior Member Pleb's Avatar
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    I hear March Madness is pure chaos.

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    Senior Member Dan's Avatar
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    Anyone been watching March Madness? After spending the NFL offseason last year getting into baseball, this year I'm trying to understand basketball, so I've been catching odd bits of the NCAA tournament. Auburn/Kentucky just finished & was pretty good, now we have Duke/Michigan State in the last Elite 8 game.

    Any pointers on things that'd help me pick up the game?

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    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    Baskets from behind the semi-circular line are worth three points.

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    Duke have a dude called Zion Williamson (#1) who's an absolute monster. They've also got a bunch of good dude. Rj Barrett also good.

    I've watched some of this, not a lot. I like duke. Michigan state have one superstar though. Wee guard who always wears a headband.

    Zion will be #1 pick in NBA draft though. There's lots of missed shots...

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    Senior Member John's Avatar
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    Is Zion still injured after that shoe ripping cost Nike a fortune, or was the severity of the injury just blown well out of proportion because of the circumstances?

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    Senior Member Dan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pepe View Post
    Baskets from behind the semi-circular line are worth three points.
    Okay, I'm not starting from that far back

    I know who Zion is too (largely because every NFL draft scout throws out a 'WOW ZION WOULD BE GREAT IN THE NFL' tweet every time Duke play), but I don't really get stuff like the differences between positions or the strategy & play calling side of things. It all just looks like dude running around randomly until someone takes a shot.

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    Senior Member Dan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foe View Post
    Duke have a dude called Zion Williamson (#1) who's an absolute monster. They've also got a bunch of good dude. Rj Barrett also good.

    I've watched some of this, not a lot. I like duke. Michigan state have one superstar though. Wee guard who always wears a headband.

    Zion will be #1 pick in NBA draft though. There's lots of missed shots...
    Yep, there he is

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    Won the Old Board Lewis's Avatar
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    I end up in the American sports Guardian section when I'm bored off my tits at work, and this Tacko Fall freak who can't actually play basketball sounds like a much more interesting prospect than exploding shoes boy.

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    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    Big man is complete shit. Works in college because he can stand in front of the hoop doing nothing and be effective. That wouldn't work in the NBA with the 3-second rule.

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    Man(c) of the People igor_balis's Avatar
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    Anyone seen Hoop Dreams?

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    Senior Member 7om's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by igor_balis View Post
    Anyone seen Hoop Dreams?
    I still maintain after all these years it's one of the best documentaries ever made. So much more than basketball.

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    Now in technicolor Pen's Avatar
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    I agree with Tom. It’s the best sports documentary there is.

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    Won the Old Board Lewis's Avatar
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    Is that impressive? I suppose the human-like throwing action is difficult to replicate, but hitting a fixed target in a stable atmosphere at close range seems like it should be an easy thing for a robot.

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    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    Agreed, that seems like the easiest thing for a robot to do.

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    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    Which reminds me, I just came back from the supermarket and there was a "robot" rolling about. Not sure what it was supposed to do, but the little kids were loving it. Probably taking some poor people's jobs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    It all just looks like dude running around randomly until someone takes a shot.
    Generally the guy who brings the ball up the court is called the "point guard". He's kind've like the "engine" of the team. He'll bring the ball up the court and set the play in motion.

    These players can be a lot smaller than others and it doesn't make as much of a difference. Usually they become very crafty when it comes to scoring close to the basket around the bigger, less agile players... but most of the time they don't need to do so to be effective... this would be like Chris Paul, Kemba Walker, or Steph Curry.

    Next you'd have a shooting guard. Your shooting guard can also bring the ball up the court and start the play but generally a shooting guard is going to be, as the name says, the best pure shooter of the ball on your team. This is your Dwyane Wade, your Kobe Bryant, your Michael Jordan types.

    These two "guards" don't need as much size as the forwards do because of their role. The shooting guard will generally be the one who is running around screens trying to get themselves open for a clear shot at the hoop. This isn't always necessarily true, but in the spirit of the game that's the idea.

    This is an example of screen or "a pick":




    Now in these instances, one of the forwards stepped out from inside the 3-point circle to help the point guard create some space to start the play/set. All of these motions are part of the designed play.

    Of course, not every guard, especially at the highest level, fits neatly into these categories. For example, Steph Curry is a heavy shooter but he's a "point guard" because he generally starts and runs the offense. James Harden is almost a hybrid shooting/point guard in the sense he can be tasked with running the offense but he also has Chris Paul on his team that can do the same thing.

    Your point guard, generally, is your facilitator. Your shooting guard is the one being facilitated to. Not every time, there's obviously plays set up for the forwards and center as well, but this is again just the GENERAL idea.

    Let's talk about these forwards.

    Small forward can generally have a few different jobs. A lot of times, these players are also good shooters but also pretty good defenders as they generally are much taller and lengthier (in terms of wingspan) than guards but smaller and more agile than Power Forwards and Centers (who we'll get to next).

    Small forwards will usually be tasked with playing defense on the other team's best shooter (if they're the more agile type) because of the advantages created by their wingspan etc. (Kawhi Leonard, for example).

    They also can generally be relied on to attack the rim off the dribble (i.e. take it from outside and drive the ball inside at the defense) and score points at the rim again due to their size (these are your Kevin Durant, LeBron James, Carmelo Anthony types).



    Power forward on the other hand has kinda changed a lot in the passed decade.

    Used to be a position reserved more for a very tall player who was maybe a little more agile than the center but not as agile as the Small Forward that can play hard-nosed defense against other big men down low, rebound the basketball on a miss, etc.

    Recently, though, as the game has started becoming more fast paced and athletic.. your Power Forward is also tasked with setting screens at the top of the key (the very top of the circle), sliding into open space, and making mid-range and long-range shots.

    A great example of this type of player is Chris Bosh. Bosh is 7 foot tall, but was a bit more agile and lanky than a traditional big man center. Bosh was also a very good shooter, so in his Miami Heat days we played him a little more outside of the paint (the area directly under the basket) and more around the 3 point line.

    The idea of this is to create spacing for your "slasher" player (like the Small Forward I described that cuts to the lane) to get to the basket and score, but also puts another body outside that can help set screens/picks for the guards to run around and get themselves free with.

    This brings me back to the first gif:


    See how he slides into open space and takes the open shot? Perfect play that is almost unguardable. You either choose to follow the ball, which leaves the big man open, or you follow the big man and leave the guard open.

    Of course, you still have your typical Center, but in a lot of instances these days a Center is almost a glorified Power Forward and their roles can be interchanged depending on what you have on your roster.

    A Center will be more in the paint, waiting to receive a pass down low, and attempt to strongarm their way to the basket. Think Shaq.

    I highly doubt you read any of this shit but it's helped me kill time at work and that's all I'm here for really.

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    Senior Member mugbull's Avatar
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    Potentially the longest non-WDYTOE OC in TTH history

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    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    Every team sport has the same cast of characters. Conductors, brutes, marksmen and worker bees. You can pretty much fit anyone from any team sport I can think of into one of those categories.

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    Senior Member mugbull's Avatar
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    Same with life. Conductors - politicians, managers, lawyers. Brutes - army, police, bouncers. Marksmen - engineers, craftsmen, doctors. Worker bees - unskilled labor, most services, serfs

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    Custom User Title phonics's Avatar
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    Quite, if you want to descend into genericisms it's easy, but the beauty of basketball is that there's few enough players on a court to breakout from there via your personality. Charles Barkley was a shooter because he would elbow the guy defending him in the head to get the space he needed to drop a two. Kevin Garnett was a shooter because he'd be the one elbowed in the head and still score for the And-One and then he'd call you a bitch and make fun of your children.

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    Senior Member mugbull's Avatar
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    And yet almost all the players have to be outlandishly tall. Even in this “age of short ballers”

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    Custom User Title phonics's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mugbull View Post
    And yet almost all the players have to be outlandishly tall. Even in this “age of short ballers”
    IMO, the problem with Basketball is that everyone (including the 6'9" fuckers) are too good at 3's and there are too many games so no-one plays defense. LeBron was hitting huge numbers while doing shit like this:



    That second one is disgusting.

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    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    The regular season isn't worth watching. Maybe the last two minutes of a few matches. Otherwise, just ignore the sport exists until the playoffs begin.

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    I would disagree but it depends on your level of interest in the sport itself.

    I used to get League Pass every year to supplement my fantasy basketball team and you'd be surprised how entertained you can be by random basketball games.

    Now yea, a lot of times the defensive intensity doesn't ramp up until the last 5 minutes, but I think a lot of sports are like that.

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    ram it up your shitpipe Giggles's Avatar
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    Why is there such a big thing made of this every year? Seems bigger than any pro sport and even people who don't like basketball are all over it. Is it because they find knockout tournaments a novelty?

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    For us it's like one of those weirdo traditions that people have cause most folks will fill out a "bracket" and have "tourney challenges".

    Random people will fill it out based on "which mascot they like better!" or "which jersey color scheme is the best!"

    Then people who really follow college ball will do it based on their KNOWLEDGE!

    So then it's really funny to see who wins, especially if it's some random person who doesn't care about college basketball.

    Also, all of our other sports are completed by a "best of" series of games. The novelty of a one-off knockout is exciting an often provides a lot of interesting upsets and "Cinderella" stories.

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    This year, because the Final Four is made up almost entirely of non-traditional team teams, it's more likely for example some random woman in accounting who went to Texas Tech is going to win the "office tourney challenge" and that's just hilarious bantz for a solid week and, if they do a money pool, a nice little payoff for her that she can have bragging rights for all year.

    It's stuff like that more than anything.

    PLUS, like I alluded to, most people will cheer for their colleges even if they don't give a fuck about the sport.

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    Custom User Title phonics's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggles View Post
    Why is there such a big thing made of this every year? Seems bigger than any pro sport and even people who don't like basketball are all over it. Is it because they find knockout tournaments a novelty?
    Americans seem to have an obsession with where they went to uni.

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    ram it up your shitpipe Giggles's Avatar
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    I suppose it's like all those office draws during a soccer world cup where only 3 of 25 people watch the sport. Still though, the college version of basketball is an odd one.

    Is there loads of teams or something?

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    ram it up your shitpipe Giggles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phonics View Post
    Americans seem to have an obsession with where they went to uni.
    But the general public don't go as crazy for anything to do with their college than they go for these playoffs

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    There are 300+ Division 1 teams. They're divided into conferences, sure, but basically any team can win the tournament hypothetically.

    In that sense it's kinda like the Champions League, though, in the sense that bigger and better conferences get more "bids" to the 64 team tournament than smaller ones.

    Every now and then you get a Iceland, for example, and that makes for a lot of interesting stories.

    For example, last year the "Cinderella"/Iceland type team had a 98 year old woman who became the "Belle of the Ball":

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...tournament-nun

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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggles View Post
    But the general public don't go as crazy for anything to do with their college than they go for these playoffs
    Football is a lot bigger than basketball in general tbh cause almost every game is like a playoff in the sense if you lose once/twice you're basically out of the title race.

    IMHO most people don't care as much about the outcome of the tournament (unless their team/school is directly involved) than they do the stories that lead up to it, whereas in football it's much different.

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    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggles View Post
    Why is there such a big thing made of this every year? Seems bigger than any pro sport and even people who don't like basketball are all over it. Is it because they find knockout tournaments a novelty?
    Marketing. A lot of it.

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    Anyone watch the final four?

    I've only watched the first game, the auburn v Virginia game and it was really good.

    Final is tomorrow (Monday) night too. So get it recorded. Last year the boy di Vincenzo from villanova went wild, scored loads, for MVP and ultimately a first round draft pick out of it (mid 20s I think?).

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    Senior Member Dan's Avatar
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    Yep, watched most of the first game last night then fell asleep, but watched the rest & the second game today. College atmospheres are amazing for games like these. That Auburn/Virginia finish

    Got the championship game recorded too, so I'll probably try to watch that after work on Tuesday.

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    Same. I really don't care that much for NBA, and march madness sort of passes me by in most part because there's soooo many games. Once it gets down to like the elite 8 though it gets really, really good!

    Matt mooney was so good for Texas tech. Just nailing everything.

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    Senior Member Dan's Avatar
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    How does the draft work in the NBA? Don’t you get randomers from all over the world rather than just NCAA declarations?

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    Custom User Title phonics's Avatar
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    You declare for the draft, iirc literally anyone can but it costs money so people don't just put themselves in for lols.

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    Exactly. The teams that don't make the playoffs are put into a "draft lottery" in which based on final standing..worst record in the league has the highest chance of the first pick. The odds go down as the records get better.

    They then pull teams at "random" and set the draft order that way.

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