News of the day

[Jimmy Floyd]

The point is it's fine in those countries because they decided it was, they didn't make it so because some football people (I mean, fuck me, the hubris is off the charts), who were feeding from their trough in all manner of other way came along and told them it's not cool.

"Oh, ok then".

From my point of view, at least, I don't think by raising the issue we're telling Qatar to change their law (though it would good for gay Qataris if they did). It's more about putting across to FIFA that the World Cup should not be held in such a place because doing so by definition excludes x% of the world on a discriminatory basis.

The issue as raised by journalists and campaigners is also about asking questions of ourselves, for instance the questions asked to the FA, Kane and Southgate - are you going to travel to such a tournament? Once there, in a hostile context, are you willing to make even a futile gesture to stand up for non-straight people in the same way that you stand up for black people by taking a knee? Unfortunately the answer is that they are not, so we learn something from that and it progresses our knowledge of the issue in a football context.

[phonics]

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Good stuff.

[Yevrah]

It's more about putting across to FIFA that the World Cup should not be held in such a place because doing so by definition excludes x% of the world on a discriminatory basis.

But that's the problem with the way this has gone as far as I can see, in that the focus has shifted far too much away from FIFA and just become an exercise for beating Qatar and their way of living (the fuss over Messi and his cape, for example). Now I don't personally agree with Qatar's way of life and I'd hate to be part of it, but as with Trump, Brexit, Vaccines and seemingly everything else these days you sure as shit don't get people to change by calling them backward, stupid and or any other derogatory term one would care to mention.

I agree with the rest of your post.

[Don]

It says everything about Muslim society that the counterpoint presented (including by you a few weeks back) was that Western countries restrict polygamy so who are they to talk about Islamic countries restricting homosexuality.

I believe you're mistaken in attributing such an argument to me. The main counterpoint is that we haven't normalised having poo all around our arseholes and we will continue the fight for this noble cause.

[Boydy]

The gays have excellent anal hygiene so maybe you could bond over that.

[Yevrah]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64053099

How does this absolute nutjob think housing people in dis-used cruise ships is going to be any cheaper than hotels?

[Jimmy Floyd]

The food's all-inclusive as opposed to room service costing extra.

[Lewis]

From my point of view, at least, I don't think by raising the issue we're telling Qatar to change their law (though it would good for gay Qataris if they did). It's more about putting across to FIFA that the World Cup should not be held in such a place because doing so by definition excludes x% of the world on a discriminatory basis.

The issue as raised by journalists and campaigners is also about asking questions of ourselves, for instance the questions asked to the FA, Kane and Southgate - are you going to travel to such a tournament? Once there, in a hostile context, are you willing to make even a futile gesture to stand up for non-straight people in the same way that you stand up for black people by taking a knee? Unfortunately the answer is that they are not, so we learn something from that and it progresses our knowledge of the issue in a football context.

Would you only be ineligible to host the World Cup if homosexuality was illegal in your country, or would you also lose it if your gays lacked all of the rights that their London-based counterparts (assuming their freedoms are the benchmark) enjoyed? What about countries without equal pay legislation?

As for gestures, if you recall, once they decided that taking the knee was definitely not associated with the Black Lives Matter movement that the FA sought to latch onto (nor were the banners in every ground, or the graphics on the coverage) lest they be associated with their wacky politics that nobody bothered to look into before wholly embracing them, it was re-cast as a catch-all equality/anti-discrimination gesture, so you were included there along with the women and the migrant workers.

[Lewis]

But that's the problem with the way this has gone as far as I can see, in that the focus has shifted far too much away from FIFA and just become an exercise for beating Qatar and their way of living (the fuss over Messi and his cape, for example). Now I don't personally agree with Qatar's way of life and I'd hate to be part of it, but as with Trump, Brexit, Vaccines and seemingly everything else these days you sure as shit don't get people to change by calling them backward, stupid and or any other derogatory term one would care to mention.

I agree with the rest of your post.

I liked the cape business. They have hosted the tournament, and their Head of State has handed the trophy over. I thought it was quite a nice touch and every country should do something similar. When we win the next one I want to see the captain in a ten-gallon hat with a Happy Meal in his spare hand.

[Pepe]

Cowboy hat and NRA sweatshirt for whoever wins the next one.

[Pepe]

Maybe have them go through the stage in a mobility scooter to raise awareness about disabilities.

EDIT: I want Trump to be back just to see him run the show.

[Lewis]

And America lose the final so he can walk around consoling the players like Macron was.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Would you only be ineligible to host the World Cup if homosexuality was illegal in your country, or would you also lose it if your gays lacked all of the rights that their London-based counterparts (assuming their freedoms are the benchmark) enjoyed? What about countries without equal pay legislation?

It's not about who is and isn't eligible to host the World Cup. We hosted it in 1966 a year before we let the gays out. It's about highlighting the various injustices involved in hosting it in Qatar. The (many fewer) injustices involved in hosting it in the US, Canada and Mexico will no doubt be pointed out ahead of 2026.

If you hosted it in Egypt (also no gays allowed) I think it would be much less of an issue because of the differences between that society/government and Qatar's.

[Lewis]

I'm confused. The officially homophobic military dictatorship in Egypt is better because the societal vibes are slightly less anti-gay? I suppose all of the workers that die on their construction sites would be domestic ones, so I'll give them that.

[Spikey M]

Hosting it in Egypt on morality grounds would be like choosing Laos over Cambodia because there's a few less unexploded landmines.

[Dquincy]

I have zero sympathy for David Beckham. He is indeed a scum bag for happily cashing in both from being a "gay icon" and from a state that would throw his gay fans from roof tops. That's neither here nor there.

Would you have turned down the money if offered the same role?

[Shindig]

That's not really like for like.

Anyway, for all the moaning about David Beckham, I can only remember Andrea Pirlo doing actual tourism ads for Qatar during the World Cup.

[Spikey M]

Would you have turned down the money if offered the same role?

Of course not. I'd chair the Slobodan Milosevic fan club for the stack of cash Becks is sitting on. You'd be a fool not too. But we're not multimillionaires.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Would you accept £40,000 to spend three months locked in the back seats of a Ford Fiesta with David Beckham? Water and Ryvita Thins are passed to you by an armed minder in the front seat upon request, but you can't go to the toilet other than pissing/crapping yourself.

[Ian]

Depends. Is he going to going by any of his favourite spice markets?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Can I at least piss and shit out of the window?

[Jimmy Floyd]

The car is stationary, but Beckham is free to tell you any and all spice market related anecdotes from his past.

[Spikey M]

Would you accept £40,000 to spend three months locked in the back seats of a Ford Fiesta with David Beckham? Water and Ryvita Thins are passed to you by an armed minder in the front seat upon request, but you can't go to the toilet other than pissing/crapping yourself.

You had me at free Ryvita Thins.

[Giggles]

That salt bae cretin was Qatar/FIFA’s biggest crime.

[Dquincy]

Of course not. I'd chair the Slobodan Milosevic fan club for the stack of cash Becks is sitting on. You'd be a fool not too. But we're not multimillionaires.

Then I don't get what the problem is.

Don't judge someone just because they sin differently than you do.

[Don]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...b-secret-santa

[Spikey M]

Then I don't get what the problem is.

Don't judge someone just because they sin differently than you do.

I didn't say there was a problem. I said he is scum. As is anyone else ditching their morals for financial gain, myself and the Milosevic crew included.

It's just a bit worse when you're already a multimillionaire.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I'm endlessly fascinated by BBC comments sections (I think they're much closer to a representative national focus group than any other comment section on the web) and the one for SPOTY is always a highlight:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/sports-personality/64045751

Now, as far as I can see Beth Mead is a pretty deserving winner even if you could have made a case for some of the others, but the comments are fucking RAGING. Apoplectic with fury.

[niko_cee]

Feels increasingly that this thing, whilst once perhaps relevant and mainstream, has gone the way of the music charts and become little more than a fringe item on the cultural agenda, which mainly serves for one subset or other to rage about being left out/who's getting the recognition this year etc.

Zara Tindall winning it possibly the cross-over point.

[Lewis]

The cricket person didn't look too bothered about coming second, unless the glee had simply worn off.

[mo]

Another victim of the culture wars.

[igor_balis]

the people who care about SPOTY are the same people who watch comic relief

[Lewis]

Who was the last winner with any personality eh?

[Lewis]

I think Andrew Flintoff would pass muster for those people, so it appears to be him, unless Bradley Wiggins pretending he doesn't like being famous counts as a decent gimmick.

[Lewis]

Going down this winners list, it's probably faded from the public conscious because we have loads of very good (and well paid) athletes these days, all of who compete for and win proper awards in their actual fields. Thirty years ago we had footballers, Nigel Mansell, and probably two decent Olympians at any given point, so winning this was a big deal.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I was just looking at the list. Geraint Thomas. Wouldn't know him if he walked into the office right now in full yellow jersey. Why hasn't he made it into the HMHB lyrics alongside Wiggo and Froome-dog? Is he the most boring / forgettable sportsman of all time relative to his achievements?

My personal favourite was 1997 when (according to my unchecked memory of 25 years ago) the winner was mistakenly announced as Greg Ru-DEAD-ski.

Gorgeous detail here as well:

In 1996, Justin Fashanu received a large number of votes following a campaign in Gay Times. However the BBC deemed this to be against the rules and disqualified him from the award.

Just perfect.

[Lewis]

And look where ignoring the rules got him a couple of years later. The BBC tried.

[-james-]

https://s.wsj.net/public/resources/d...rdlanguage.pdf

Stanford University have published a list of "Forbidden words", along with suggested alternatives. Some of it is incredible.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I didn't know 'American' had been cancelled.

And I'm pretty sure that's not in any way what 'Indian summer' means.

[randomlegend]

https://s.wsj.net/public/resources/d...rdlanguage.pdf

Stanford University have published a list of "Forbidden words", along with suggested alternatives. Some of it is incredible.

I'm only two down the list and it's already broken my mind.

How is "hooked" less trivialising than "addicted"? Let's not even get started on "devoted"

[Jimmy Floyd]

trigger warning
content note

The phrase can cause stress about what's to follow. Additionally, one can never know
what may or may not trigger a particular person

I think the entire culture war might be swallowed up in the circular logic black hole produced by this one.

[Pepe]

The word "preferred" suggests that non-binary gender identity is a choice and a preference.

Lol.

[Spikey M]

Everyone just needs to go back to ignoring this shit.

[Lewis]

Ten years ago people tried ignoring it. 'lol once they get in the real world...' Now look. Nonce paradise.

[Spikey M]

It's a nonce paradise because people stopped ignoring it.

Edit: which reminds me, we had a tone policing email from one of the top bods the other day featuring classics like

Instead of "you have not returned my call" please use "we have been unable to reach you".

Fuck off mate. A spade is a spade.

[-james-]

It's a nonce paradise because people stopped ignoring it.

Edit: which reminds me, we had a tone policing email from one of the top bods the other day featuring classics like

Instead of "you have not returned my call" please use "we have been unable to reach you".

Fuck off mate. A spade is a spade.

Although the term has its origins in Greek literature, the subsequent negative connotations with the word "spade" means that the phrase should be used with caution or not at all.

[Shindig]

That picture does them no favours.

I don't like how there's actual children in shot.

[Giggles]

Gender changing my bollocks. Fucking freaks.

[niko_cee]

https://s.wsj.net/public/resources/d...rdlanguage.pdf

Stanford University have published a list of "Forbidden words", along with suggested alternatives. Some of it is incredible.

It's a bit odd that stuff which is frowned on then appears in the context definitions [or even suggested alternatives] of other things.

Instead of 'on the warpath' have you considered using 'mad'? Don't say 'insane', it trivialises people living with mental health conditions. What?

[Manc]

"Shame on you!" tickled me. Heads have well and truly gone.