Football - The Managerial Debate

The last couple of seasons has seen a host of players we all grew up watching finally retire from the game and try their luck at management. Alan Shearer tried it and failed pretty swiftly, Gary Neville's stint at Valencia showed he's just a mouthpiece whilst the less said about Paul Scholes at Oldham the better. Unfortunately, Jamie Carragher has still to make that plunge and given his knowledge of the game I feel that's a wasted opportunity but I think he's gone the cushy route more than anything. Twat.

So those above shall not be included as their stints were too short and so with that in mind.

Frank Lampard

Play-offs with a Derby side heavily influenced with loaned players, a playoff spot appearing to be par for the course at County but he did knock Man United out of a domestic cup. I think his inexperience and bitterness showed with the whole spy-gate rubbish.

Steven Gerrard

Short stint with the Liverpool youngsters before knocking back MK Dons. Rangers finishing 2nd in his debut season, a good effort in Europe but again, a good number of loaned players and discipline issues throughout the squad.

Jonathan Woodgate

Briefly a scout for Liverpool before rejoining Middlesbrough as a coach until Garry Monk decided James Beattie would be a better option. Two years working with the clubs academy before being the sole survivor of Tony Pulis's backroom staff. Tasked with promotion and improving the visual aspect of 'Boro's play.

Phil Neville

Surprisingly took over the England Woman's team and a decent effort to lead them to the semi-final however the warning signs remain. Defensively he's a weak coach and I believe it was his decision to switch to a 4-4-2 against USA that backfired. He's good with the media and deflects the serious questions quite well but it's difficult to gauge just how good he could be until he joins a club.

Scott Parker

Fulham's reign in the Premier League was as depressing as Parker's career being mostly known for a Maccy's advert but he secured some big wins, steadied them defensively and is well deserving of his opportunity to bring them back up.

Lee Bowyer

Looked set to depart after leading Charlton to promotion before a U-turn and now looks set to remain. Play-off defeat a few months after taking over Robinson but his first season saw them rewrite a wrong and defeated arguably the two bigger sides in Doncaster and Sunderland to steer the Addicks up.

Joey Barton

Controversial as he may be, finishing 11th wasn't too bad an effort with decent wins over rivals Blackpool as well as Sunderland. As is always the case with Barton, trouble isn't that far off and assaulting the opposition physically isn't what management is about. You need to beat them with your ideas and tactics, Joey!

Sol Campbell

Ridiculed for years yet finally got his break after a short stint helping out with Trinidad and Tobago. Macclesfield looked dead and buried prior to his arrival and a drop to the Conference seemed inevitable. 7 wins, 10 draws in his 25 games in charge. A full season in charge next season is going to be interesting and he's one to watch, I reckon. I'm actually quite pleased for him too.

John Terry

OK, OK, I know. He's not a manager but I'm either forgetting someone obvious or I'll continue to scrape the barrel with this one as it'll inevitably happen during this season when Dean Smith gets sacked for you know...getting Villa promoted.

Other

Who?

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Unfortunately, Jamie Carragher has still to make that plunge and given his knowledge of the game I feel that's a wasted opportunity but I think he's gone the cushy route more than anything

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:rolleyes:

Yeah, bypass the wall of text and focus on a throwaway comment. It's a known fact that his knowledge of the game is up there with the best of them but he doesn't seem to have the stomach for it.

Roll your eyes all you like, bitch.

:rolleyes:

Mugbull > randomlegend.

My mate knows a Macclesfield fan (I'm quite impressed with just two degrees of separation from me to one of those) and he says Sol Campbell is an absolute idiot. I kind of hope he proves him wrong, as Sol is mad enough that he would be great entertainment further up the pyramid.

If Shearer failed, then Benitez also failed when we went down under his helm. Shearer has a lot more to offer, but I think that short stint will have massively put him off.

He landed his dream job first time out and it turned into a nightmare. You'd not come back for another job after that experience.

Here's a surprising fact. Shearer to Newcastle was ten years ago. :eek:

Newcastle went down under Benitez because Sunderland hit a richer vein of form at the exact time they did, no? Newcastle under Shearer as far as I recall it was in their own hands?

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Originally Posted by Shindig

He landed his dream job first time out and it turned into a nightmare. You'd not come back for another job after that experience.

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Perhaps but for me I think it's rather telling that it was Newcastle or nobody. Not bothered to learn his trade with a lesser club or having the foresight to know that a club without Ashley and his band of muppets could/would be a better alternative if he truly did have aspirations of being a manager.

It'll be between Lampard and Neville, I think.

Lampard seems quite smart. Who knows if he'll be good enough to win anything but the realistic worst possible scenario is it doesn't work out, he has a couple seasons of finishing outside the top 6, and he resigns (in a dignified manner, pundit mates are keen to point out). He then gets hired by a lower Prem/upper Champ club because his name still carries enough weight, and he'll have learnt at Chelsea.

Neville has the work ethic to get up at 5am etc, and his slightly comical Brendan Rodgers-at-his-most-cartoonish manner could get laughed at by the best players if he ever gets a top 6 job, but he might have a good Chris Hughton-level career.

I'm keeping my eye on Steve Watson and Mike Williamson in the Conference North. They play Woodgate's Boro on Wednesday and the Heed still seem to be a in a frantic scramble to re-sign players for another year. If Mike can do anything to steady the ship, it'll be a miracle.

https://www.gateshead-fc.com/the-squad/

Oof.

With Shearer I thought the deal was that he wasn't at all interested in being a manager, but when his home club came calling to try and save them (fuck knows why) he couldn't really say no.

Unfair to judge him at all on that.

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Originally Posted by Smjffy

Here's a surprising fact. Shearer to Newcastle was ten years ago. :eek:

Newcastle went down under Benitez because Sunderland hit a richer vein of form at the exact time they did, no? Newcastle under Shearer as far as I recall it was in their own hands?

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He shouldn't have accepted the role, but did so out of love for the club. We'd just sacked Dennis Wise and the other charlatans that turned an already chaotic club into a true shambles. It was definitely naive to come in. Owen in particular was fucking awful that season, if we're pointing fingers. I remember a good few amazing chances he floundered. Viduka too. Ultimately, a ridiculous Damien Duff own goal on the last day sealed our fate.

I don't think any individual, on the football side, should really be blamed, though. It was a perfect shitstorm caused by an incredibly incompetent owner coupled with some bad luck.

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Originally Posted by Offshore Toon

He shouldn't have accepted the role, but did so out of love for the club. We'd just sacked Dennis Wise and the other charlatans that turned an already chaotic club into a true shambles. It was definitely naive to come in. Owen in particular was fucking awful that season, if we're pointing fingers. I remember a good few amazing chances he floundered. Viduka too. Ultimately, a ridiculous Damien Duff own goal on the last day sealed our fate.

I don't think any individual, on the football side, should really be blamed, though. It was a perfect shitstorm caused by an incredibly incompetent owner coupled with some bad luck.

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Then perhaps I'm being overly harsh but truth be told he wouldn't have got into the poll purely because of how long ago it was. I tried limiting it to those in their first season or about to start their first full campaign. You could throw similar spiel at Gary Neville, foreign country, under-performing club and at the time a bit of a joke (not on Newcastle levels, I mean Joe fucking Kinnear....)

I would even suggest that perhaps he wasn't cut out for management at all if one small stint was enough to put him off. He was only manager for a dozen games or so, after all?

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Originally Posted by Jimmy Floyd

With Shearer I thought the deal was that he wasn't at all interested in being a manager, but when his home club came calling to try and save them (fuck knows why) he couldn't really say no.

Unfair to judge him at all on that.

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According to the ever reliable Wiki....

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Early career
On his retirement as a player, Shearer responded to speculation of an immediate move into coaching, saying that he would take some personal time off to "enjoy life" for the next couple of years. He was also quoted as saying that he would eventually like to move into management,[89] "when the time was right"[90] however as of March 2009 he was yet to start the UEFA Pro Licence course,[91] which is required to be permitted to manage a team in the Premier League and European competition.[92]

Reflecting his desire for personal time off to "enjoy life", in July 2006 he turned down a coaching role with England, citing his BBC commitments and desire to be away from the pressure of a job within football.[93] Despite this, Shearer was often linked in the media with managerial or coaching positions at his three former clubs.[94][95]

Shearer took a brief role in the dugout for his final three games under Glenn Roeder. Shearer had rejected offers of coaching or assistant roles at Newcastle under both the returning Kevin Keegan in February 2008 and Joe Kinnear in November 2008.[96][97] Shearer had previously had talks about, but never been offered, a full-time manager's role at Newcastle until his appointment on 1 April 2009.[98]

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Pretty much confirms to be that it heart wasn't in management. By all means enjoy life after a long career but at least make the commitments that many others with equally as long careers had made. He could have started his badges in his final years easily enough.

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Originally Posted by Smjffy

Then perhaps I'm being overly harsh but truth be told he wouldn't have got into the poll purely because of how long ago it was. I tried limiting it to those in their first season or about to start their first full campaign. You could throw similar spiel at Gary Neville, foreign country, under-performing club and at the time a bit of a joke (not on Newcastle levels, I mean Joe fucking Kinnear....)

I would even suggest that perhaps he wasn't cut out for management at all if one small stint was enough to put him off. He was only manager for a dozen games or so, after all?

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I think the criticism of Neville is harsh too, yeah. Sometimes people take gambles and it doesn't come off. I respect the ambition, even if it isn't the smartest move. I think Shearer took the job in large part because the alternative was previously second choice to Joe Kinnear. I doubt he thought he was the best man for the job, but with eight games left and the clock ticking he probably fancied himself to do better than Ashley (hence bringing in Dowie as his number two, which wasn't an inspired appointment but at least he had some modern experience).

OK, can we move on from Shearer and Neville then? I mean, they weren't even in the poll as a result of them not starting their managerial careers within the last season, I only listed them as they are other players we've seen make their debut and retire.

I didn't bother reading on given how wrong you were only half way through your introduction paragraph.

Subjective opinions can't be wrong and you've done nothing but give excuses for two players who, in black and white terms, failed. Funnily enough, both were also handed the jobs based on name value and history. Neville because he's in the billionaires pocket and Shearer for being a former player of the club. Every single one of those listed in the poll actually put some work in prior to taking a position. The fact that all have fared better at this early stage than Shearer or Neville is also very telling but alas, you didn't read this either so what's the point.

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Originally Posted by Smjffy

Subjective opinions can't be wrong...

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Let me stop you there, mate. They definitely can.

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Originally Posted by Offshore Toon

Let me stop you there, mate. They definitely can.

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Objectively speaking, you're wrong. :beer:

I would love it if Wayne Rooney became a top, top manager (love it). He seems to want to have a crack at it as well, which is just bizarre, unless his wife is pushing it so that she always knows where he is.

I mean what else would Wayne do with his time.

Get fat and do a bit of punditry like Ricky Hatton.

I was gonna say he seems too thick for punditry but I don't reckon that's a negative these days.

He's clearly not against the idea of hookers, so getting very fat is almost inevitable. He'll probably go into management if only to delay death for a couple of decades.

There are far thicker players-turned-pundits than Rooney, i think

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Originally Posted by bruhnaldo

I was gonna say he seems too thick for punditry but I don't reckon that's a negative these days.

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He was pretty good when he did Monday Night Football. His biggest problem is that his binman credentials probably aren't as strong as he might think they are with Everton and United.

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Originally Posted by Lewis

He was pretty good when he did Monday Night Football. His biggest problem is that his binman credentials probably aren't as strong as he might think they are with Everton and United.

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I think time will be kinder on Wayne Rooney tbh. He perhaps didn't reach the heights expected but he still ended up Man United's and England's top goalscorer*, has had a career longer than most in the game period (16th year now, right?) and still appears to at least have some sort of passion for the game given how he's helped transform DC United. Heck, moving back to Everton showed he still has a love for the game given how that wasn't as easy a decision as one would imagine given the hate he'd received over the years.

It's quite sad that it's his off field antics that have clouded the opinion of most. Prostitutes, threesomes, DUI, libel cases and issues with agents and holding the club that I believe made him to ransom but if you can ignore that then it was still quite a career. He's no Gazza is Wazza but he achieved more than Gascoigne did in the game and still has his faculties intact despite drinking and smoking etc. With the right people around him and a few less vices then he would have been one of the best English players ever.

Not that I want to defend the cunt but yeah, my thoughts have shifted on him since he went to MLS.

*If Michael Owen wasn't so injury prone then that record wouldn't have been reachable.

He is an all-time United great, but the contract stuff will always be black marks against him, and if you're going to be a proper binman then you need unconditional fan support.

The ironic thing is he probably would have gone on to bigger and better things if he did follow through and leave, especially given how things have turned out since Sir Alex Ferguson retired.

I mean, was Rooney actually even wrong in hindsight? I don't think so...

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Originally Posted by Smjffy

The ironic thing is he probably would have gone on to bigger and better things if he did follow through and leave, especially given how things have turned out since Sir Alex Ferguson retired.

I mean, was Rooney actually even wrong in hindsight? I don't think so...

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Of course he wasn't, it's all subjective.

He won two more titles after his official 2010 transfer request, and then when Alex Ferguson chucked him under the bus in 2013 it was only Chelsea in for him wasn't it (and they clearly didn't want him that much)? He might have got another title there before being completely written off I suppose, but he has enough of those so the goals record is a better legacy achievement.

No, it's objective now given that City overtook United, Real Madrid went on to claim four more European Cups etc. I believe his initial complaint was lack of investment and ambition, no?

I guess we'll never know the truth. One claimed he handed in a request, he claimed he didn't but he wasn't too far wrong on the clubs future.

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Originally Posted by Lewis

He won two more titles after his official 2010 transfer request, and then when Alex Ferguson chucked him under the bus in 2013 it was only Chelsea in for him wasn't it (and they clearly didn't want him that much)? He might have got another title there before being completely written off I suppose, but he has enough of those so the goals record is a better legacy achievement.

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He handed it in twice? I clearly forgot about 2010.

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Originally Posted by Smjffy

No, it's objective now given that City overtook United, Real Madrid went on to claim four more European Cups etc. I believe his initial complaint was lack of investment and ambition, no?

I guess we'll never know the truth. One claimed he handed in a request, he claimed he didn't but he wasn't too far wrong on the clubs future.

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It really isn't objective. You can't define success for somebody else.

Alas why I will always hate Rooney, even if as you all have said he wasn't exactly far off.

Stevie G to narrow the gap to single figures.