It was Green policy (lol), not Lib Dem.
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It was Green policy (lol), not Lib Dem.
I don't often get involved with politics but I'm really eager to see more of official Labour manifesto. I do like Jeremy Corbyn as a person but as good as the leaked manifesto comes across I feel that the damage has already been done over the last couple of years with all of the infighting and senseless media attacks on the man. He might not be everyone's idea of a leader but I just can't get behind Theresa May and how secretive she appears to be about what sort of Brexit the country shall have.
I understand that Brexit means Brexit but it appears her policies (or lack of) are based on blind faith and her refusal to debate on television rubs me up the wrong way.
http://www.libdems.org.uk/liberal_de...annabis_marketQuote:
Originally Posted by phonics
At least a year then.
I think Corbyn's main downfall at this point is his cabinet, especially fucking Diane Abbott. I'd much prefer Corbyn to May, but its never going to happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abelxaviersdodgyhairdo
I fully agree with you, mate. I was saying only the other day that I believe Diane Abbott is one of the rats in the party and is deliberately sabotaging things especially after that train wreck of an interview regarding policing. I also don't like the fact that she bottled voting on Article 50 and the reason she gave for it. It was just as petty and ignorant as the one she gave last week.Quote:
Originally Posted by Offshore Toon
If that wasn't bad enough her voice drives me absolutely potty. You can see the clogs working overtime as she um's and ah's.
"Well, you see, what I'm about to tell you is the real reason that why we're....the real reason for all of this, you see is basically that um, we're....let me start again so I can be 100% clear."
Yeah, she's a total mess. Why do you think she's deliberately sabotage things?Quote:
Originally Posted by Abelxaviersdodgyhairdo
I can't see anything other than a huge Conservative win although I am hoping that that isn't the case. Andrew Percy was our elected candidate but he's been there so long now that I think most just went with what they know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy Floyd
I believe voting in this country should be compulsory but then I do wonder whether those who don't register themselves to vote are the sort you wouldn't want to do so anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewis
This is one of my major problems with Theresa May. She is asking us to believe in her strong and stable government but she was the home secretary for long enough and consistently failed. She mentions deporting about her success in removing Abu Qatada but fails to mention it took over a decade to do so. I wouldn't trust her as far as I could throw her but then that was the same for the last PM too.Quote:
Originally Posted by phonics
I agree. I think the entire party should now disband as I feel it has served its purpose. Paul Nuttall does seem to fit UKIP like a hand in a glove.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy Floyd
I would take it with a pinch of salt until the official document is released but there are some very good ideas in the leaked version and I think a large portion of the country would support. As to whether they would support Jeremy Corbyn or Labour given how dirty both names are though is another thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewis
I won't go through the entire thread and up posts but I'm still relatively undecided as to which way I'll vote and I haven't for a fair few years now. It's all got rather stupid.
I couldn't say for sure why I believe that but she just strikes me as the sort who goes against the grain regardless. She did the same thing with Tony Blair and Gordon Brown. I think she's a bit too self serving if I'm honest. I don't trust her for no other reason that she just rubs me up the wrong way, rather like Theresa May actually.Quote:
Originally Posted by Offshore Toon
Any drug reform sounds like a bit of a gimmick in a country that shits itself about sugar in cereals.
I don't think the United Kingdom is ready for that sort of stuff although I could see the merits in it if it was doing properly. I think the war on drugs failed many years ago and it's not something you're going to be able to stop. I couldn't trust the Liberal Democrats again after slipping in to bed with the Conservatives anyway.
If you had to roll three politicians into one to create a monster, which three would you choose? The thought of David Cameron, Jeremy Hunt and Nick Clegg is enough to give me nightmares but there's so much more scope for worse.
The Lib Dems have retreated firmly into 'core vote' territory. Which is fine, but it's doubtful whether they'll even manage to add a handful of seats.
I did enjoy the Labour manifesto, mind you. It's hard not to be fascinated by their continued belief in the Magic Money Tree. I know people joke, but he'd literally bring the country to ruin if he was allowed to implement such nonsense.
I want to vote labour but it's pointless where I am. If you don't want independence you have to vote Tory. Simple.
I saw the Labour manifesto as more of an investment in the future and providing it is all costed (that's where I have my doubts!) then is there not a possibility that it could be just what Britain needs? I do like Jeremy Corbyn and many of his ideals. What part of the draft copy do you believe to be nonsense? I personally got excited by it even if I have taken it with a pinch of salt. It is a draft copy after all.Quote:
Originally Posted by GS
I firmly believe that if the final copy is anywhere as good as the draft edition appears to be then the public are going to have one hell of a decision to make but then good decision making has been in short supply by the electorate for a long time now so I would take that with a pinch of salt too.
He did. Arising from the economic situation in 2010:Quote:
Originally Posted by Boydy
http://www.economicshelp.org/wp-cont...11-600x471.png
Of course it's not costed. The corporation tax increase, for example, would be totally counterproductive. The Tories cut it from 28% under Gordon Brown to 19%, with further decrease planned. It led to an increase in the tax take over that period (see: here), and companies invested the money in job creation. If he reverses it, he will not generate commensurate returns on that increase and there will almost certainly be a significant decrease in FDI and jobs in the UK market. It's the absolute last thing to be doing when there's no clear Brexit deal - we should be prepared to cut corporation tax fast and hard, if needed, to ensure continued competitiveness if the EU try to play silly buggers. The less said about its proposals on trade unions the better. You don't want to end up like the French.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abelxaviersdodgyhairdo
The free tuition policy is also a nonsense. It's basically subsidising rich kids to go to university (see the lower access there is for poorer students in Scotland compared to their counterparts in the other component nations of the UK).
To be frank with you mate I don't understand a lot of the figures as politics isn't something I concern myself with a whole lot. I have only really paid it a little bit of attention in the past seven years or so. I would say the only thing that I have noticed on a personal level in that time is the bedroom tax as that had a direct impact on me but I would be lying if I was to sit here and say I understood what half of these figures and graphs meant.Quote:
Originally Posted by GS
I would like to know what the plan is for Brexit but then again, I have wanted to know that since before the referendum, after the referendum, I wanted to know that when David Cameron even offered a referendum given how vocal things appeared to get under UKIP.
It would appear to me that nobody knows what the future is going to entail and it's all just guess work. At least the Labour party have presented 'something' which is better than nothing. I even asked our local MP before getting fobbed off. You appear to know what you're talking about so would I be right in assuming you will be voting for the Tories? I ask because so far I have heard absolutely nothing from them other than sniping and mud slinging.
I would vote Conservative. Not on the grounds that they're any good, but they're by far the least worst option.
:sick:Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic
Them surpluses. What could have been,Quote:
Originally Posted by GS
I believe that to be the case too which is a sad indictment. I do believe that citizens of this country only have themselves to blame though.Quote:
Originally Posted by GS
I await the day that somebody comes an rips up the script. I do think Jeremy Corbyn might be looked at in future as the person who got the public thinking differently as whether the manifesto is costed or not, it appears to be very popular with a lot of people.
After Brexit, Donald Trump and the farce of the French elections I wouldn't be overly surprised if there is another shock awaiting the world.
It helps when you're turning a blind eye to the excesses of the capitalist corporatist scumbags as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewis
Are you under Dundee east or west?Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic
Labour were 2nd in east last time by about 2000 votes more than the tories but I wonder what the Corbyn effect will result in.
Excellent. The Tory attack lines won't work unless it looks like Labour are gaining.
It's a tough one. Do you want them to get blasted, or would them improving their 2015 vote share be better because it would give the headbangers all the arguments they need to stay on [long enough to stitch it up for another one]?
The ideal scenario would be for their vote share to increase marginally from 2015, but concentrated in safe seats. Corbyn would use it as grounds to hold on (it's not as if anybody can force him out), surely prompting some sort of split between the moderates and the nutjobs.
The Tory majority would therefore still be sufficiently vast to justify the early election, with their sweeping up the UKIP vote. Of all areas, a Tory surge of some worthwhile substance is imperative in Scotland.
I do wonder whether there's a deliberate line of thought in The Bunker that losing about sixty seats wouldn't be the worst thing in the world for them. They're not going to get the McDonnell amendment through the NEC, and they've managed to plant 'loyalists' in safe seats owing to the accelerated selection process, so if they lose a whack of MPs the threshold to get on the ballot for a new leadership election would be low enough that they might be able to squeeze their nutter candidate on. It would then let Jezza step aside to be replaced by someone less inept. The nightmare scenario here would be John McDonnell - not because he would ever win an election, but because he strikes me as being really a rather dangerous character.
UKIP rolling at three per cent with YouGov is pretty lol, but is the Liberal Democrats being stuck on nine loller?
Elections would be so much more fun if we didn't have political polling.
It makes suggestions that the FIGHTBACK is a real thing laughable, if nothing else. I maintain a big part of the problem is Farron. He's shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewis
Has there been any polling on who the most SEETHING of SEETHING European citizens actually vote for? I mean the real bitter-ender sorts. The idiots buying that sad newspaper and nodding along to Ian Dunt. They probably number about twenty-ish per cent (48% lol), but I can't help thinking that most of them will be Jezza voters, which always made drawing them across a bit of an uphill struggle.
There was some polling recently that split the Remain vote up, i.e. into those who voted that way but think the result should be implemented, and those who somehow want to stop it. There's around 40% - 55% of Remain voters (depending on which poll you read) who want a second referendum or the government to just ignore the result, with the rest thinking the result must be implemented regardless.
So it's not really a "48%" strategy - it's more of a 21-25% strategy, at absolute best. A decent number will be Lib Dem voters already, so the remainder are probably Jezza voters and/or people under 25. Yet these are the people who will never forgive the Lib Dems for going into coalition with the Tories, or for hiking tuition fees. The FT also did some good analysis the other week showing that the Remain vote, in areas where the Lib Dems weren't already the MP, would require a serious swing towards them that is quite unlikely.
I read "How the Tories won" recently, which detailed the Black Widow strategy for taking out the Lib Dems. The same arguments you had in 2015 to destroy the Lib Dems in the south-west (i.e. the SNP / Lib Dems propping up a shit Labour leader) are even more potent.
You have that, Farron either being unknown, disliked or not considered a heavyweight, and a general sense that the Lib Dems are a 'ruined' brand, and it's very, very difficult to see how they make any sort of inroads. Some of the recent polling has them winning back a couple of their Scottish seats, but that's probably because the unionists those areas (e.g. in Jo Swinson's former seat) simply see them as the best bet for beating the SNP there.
This is a very neat summary of where the Continuity Remain vote is going:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C_yEJPCW0AUTKaa.png
That is the sort of thing I was after. Cheers. It seems quite obvious really, which is probably why the Liberal Democrats failed to appreciate it.
How the fuck can there be any hard remainers that will vote UKIP?
Because of the stupid.
It looks like a huge strategic error on Farron's part, given they've went unashamedly for Continuity Remain. They'd have been far better saying "we accept the result, but our goal is the Norway model". You could at least pretend that it respected the result (it doesn't, but whatever) without alienating 75% of the electorate. When you throw in the aforementioned Tory coalition deal, tuition fees, cannabis legalisation - what vote are they aiming for exactly?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewis
The real swing is the Conservatives keeping the vast majority of their own voters from 2015 and starting to sweep the Hardcore Leave vote from UKIP (and, seemingly, the majority of Lib Dem leavers). Ruthless electioneering.
Link to the analysis on the FT, @Lewis
https://www.ft.com/content/76037a34-...3?desktop=true
Subscribe to read. Never!
You get one free article a week. If you go into 'incognito' mode, or whatever the equivalent is on your browser, you should be able to get into it.
https://webcache.googleusercontent.c...&ct=clnk&gl=ukQuote:
Originally Posted by Lewis
I was lolling at the Labour Party broadcast on after the local news, and it turns out Ken Loach made it. It's just Jezza spouting off in cutaways from crowds adoring him, and the odd voice-over of something like 'I ACTUALLY THINK HE IS A STRONG LEADER!' and 'WHAT WAS SO BAD ABOUT THE IRA ANYWAY?!' Give it a watch.
He's hired someone as his "election chief" who was a member of the Communist Party until December, and thinks Stalin and North Korea are both alright. Some of the leftist commentators on Twitter have been going MENTAL about how it legitimises it. I assume it's Milne, given he's probably devastated that Russia didn't win the Cold War.
The IRA thing is unforgivable (McDonnell was even worse), so I'm rather surprised there are people of a supposedly sensible disposition (like Boydy) who are able to overlook it.
The more I see, the more I think Labour are going down to double figures in MPs.
Their vote seems to be holding up surprisingly well, but apparently Wor Jez's strategy is to drive it up in safe seats and not worry about actually winning marginals.
This is why the 'moderates' made a massive error spitting their collective dummy. When they lose, but nevertheless pile up votes in safer seats (which happen to be the only places Jezza seems to be bothering with), the headbangers can claim that if everybody had pulled their weight and campaigned as hard then they might have stood a better chance. Had they been clever they would have at least gone through the motions, taken the inevitable defeat (even a 2020 election would have been a defeat, if not quite a tanking on this scale), and said you had your chance lads we've done two elections on Stalinism now and bollocks.
But no, they shit the bed and now lol at them.
The thing I'll give Jeremy credit for is he has ideals that he sticks to. And the guys behind him are all so weak, they'd stand by it all in government. Trump-ish.
'on Stalinism' :D
30% isn't 'holding up' if the Tories are in the high 40s.Quote:
Originally Posted by GS
Post election Labour will be reduced to such a narrow subset of the country (city seats and only the grimmest of post industrial hellscapes) that rebuilding their appeal will be incredibly difficult and take forever. There will inevitably be an agitation among people who never leave London to form a new centrist Macron party (whether through the Labour apparatus or otherwise) because they just have no idea what's going on.
The Tories are going to start winning places like Hartlepool, lots in Yorkshire, old mining areas in Wales. New territory for them.
I can't wait for the 2022 Conservative manifesto to pinch all of his wacky communist ideas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boydy
What I don't understand about this 'progressive alliance' is why they don't just join one party. If your views are so aligned that you can simply step aside in certain seats and not allow the electorate to make the choice themselves, then what is even the point of your party existing? Does anybody really need the Greens? The Lib Dems are barely relevant. There's basically one serious centre-right party, and the left are split into various factions of the Judean People's Front arguing over who should step aside for who. It's utterly preposterous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewis
I meant purely on a percentage basis relative to where you'd expect them to be with the reds in charge. They were plumbing the depths of 25% for a while, with the expectation being it would probably erode further when there was even more scrutiny on them. It's obviously not indicative of what seats they're going to win, but somehow clinging to the same percentage as Red Ed with the current wasters in charge remains a surprise nonetheless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy Floyd
Miliband got 30.4% and I'll offer anyone a bet that Jeremy doesn't come within 3% of that.