And are you really saying it doesn't matter whether young people are subject to 84 times the risk of myocarditis having been vaccinated or did I misread that?
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And are you really saying it doesn't matter whether young people are subject to 84 times the risk of myocarditis having been vaccinated or did I misread that?
Nah, it's just that videos like the one you posted are such a narrow and incomplete viewpoint.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yevrah
Perhaps I was overly evangelical about vaccinating kids at the time, I honestly can't remember and I'm well aware I'm not above being wrong. I still think I would vaccinate my kid if I had one.
The numbers I'm going to give are purely hypothetical, I'm just trying to explain the point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yevrah
Say you have a 50 times greater risk of X complication after a vaccine. However, if you catch the illness the vaccine protects against whilst being unvaccinated, you have 1000 times risk of X.
If the vaccine reduces the 1000 times risk of X after infection to 5 times risk of X after infection, then the risk-benefit is greatly in favour of vaccination despite the initial risk it itself confers (provided it is sufficiently likely that the person will catch the illness at some point, which with covid it obviously is).
You then also have to take into account whether vaccination reduces the risks of Y, Z, A, B and C as well (and of course whether it might increase the risk of D, E, F, G, and H).
I don't know the numbers off the top of my head for this specific example and they are not that easy to find from a quick google. I'm just trying to explain why it's not as simple as "vaccine increases risk of X = bad don't' take".
Everyone needs to have the choice above all else. I am vaccinated but I got myocarditis so have not had the booster. I probably wouldn’t have my children vaccinated because I don’t see enough risk to them but when they’re old enough they can make their own choice without judgement.
I go to Austria for work now and again and in seven weeks time I won’t be allowed to enter because I haven’t had a booster and my second vaccine would have been over 270 days ago. Being excluded because of a choice is a slippery slope.
I get that if 12 year olds are at an 84 times risk of myocarditis from the vaccine, but a 99 times risk of it from catching COVID then the vaccine is worth them having, but is that the case? I know there's a risk generally of it from COVID, but generally includes 80 year olds and we shouldn't even be factoring people my age into a decision on vaccinating kids, let alone pensioners.Quote:
Originally Posted by randomlegend
If you had vaccine related myocarditis surely you can get a medical exemption?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
I can if I want but my brother can’t and he is firmly in the “fuck that” camp after finding out it happened to me.
Not hospitalised, but not pleasant.
Only if vaccinating decreases their subsequent risk of getting myocarditis if they are later infected sufficiently. This is why it's complicated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yevrah
Yes, as I said, I'm not sure and you'd need the paediatric specific data. There's some vague references I can find saying covid myocarditis is most common among the very young and very old but nothing worth hanging your hat on. I'd be surprised if it was so dramatically different from the adult data as to make it a no-brainer, but nobody should be relying on my hunches.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yevrah
If it doesn't reduce the risk that'd be more reason to be hesitant about vaccinating your kid, which surely is the position you'd start from if they're 84 times more likely to develop myocarditis if vaccinated.Quote:
Originally Posted by randomlegend
Given we know COVID is dramatically different in terms of overall impact in kids vs. adults over 40 wouldn't it be likely specific impacts are lessened too?Quote:
Originally Posted by randomlegend
For me it comes down to who benefits. If my kids benefit from a vaccine (Measles, TB, Flu, etc.) then they'll have it. If they don't benefit from it, and are potentially at greater risk from the vaccine than the disease, but society benefits... well shucks, looks like society can sit on my midget head and spin. Pensioners first please.
Yes I know. I'm pointing out/acknowledging there's complexity from both sides of the argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yevrah
Not necessarily. It would sound equally logical to say that if the vaccine confers a higher risk of myocarditis to children than adults then wouldn't it be likely that the infection also confers a higher risk of myocarditis to kids than adults.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yevrah
Shut up and get boosted, you soft shites.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...lifted-england
They're still at it :D
:D
You'd genuinely be better served listening to me when the next variant of concern turns up rather than some of these charlatans.
I've been thinking (this is only day 2 of isolation, so still plenty more to do) about the relationship between covid and the law. Yesterday I was mildly ill with it, today all my symptoms are well on the retreat and I imagine that by tomorrow they'll be gone. If this was one of the many such illnesses I've had in my life, I would have been out for a short walk tomorrow for some fresh air and to gather strength before returning to the office on Monday, maybe even pop into the shop for a couple of bits.
However, with covid all of the above is not just warned against, but ILLEGAL, and I'm not allowed to leave my two rooms for any reason until Wednesday morning. We really need to redefine that set of relationships pretty soon, because it's quite absurd.
Deepti would tell me I was being SELFISH to want to go for a walk, but I'm afraid, Deepti, that's just life.
Yes, experiencing the virus seems to lead to a certain enlightenment that many find hard to achieve in the face of the media narrative.
I said this to the wife when we had it a couple of weeks ago. We wouldn't have even broke stride for it had that 2nd red line not appeared. It was absolutely mental that it lead to atleast one of us not being able to leave the house, without breaking the law, for nearly a whole month.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy Floyd
I fucked it off in the end and went for a drive. Say it's for your "mental health" or something. Load of bollocks.
If you trot out mental health you can get away with anything.
I get the whole "it's nothing for you, but it could kill the vulnerable!!!!" argument, but there are fucking thousands of viruses and bacteria that kill the vulnerable. There's only one we do this for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Don
Especially now if you look at the tweet I posted the other day. COVID death rate is down to around 1.5x that of flu now, so we’re getting into territory where if you continue to justify isolation for COVID then logically you’d need to isolate for flu. The arguments are becoming less rational every day.
Yep. Our numbers are just collapsing now with 2000 empty hospital beds week on week. We've got 2 in intensive care for the whole county. Ending isolation might bring the numbers up but it really has to rocket to influence the hospitals.
Imagine STILL knowing about occupied beds in hospitals. :harold:
Last time I saw it on the news we still has a couple of hundred dying a day. How can we only have 2 in intensive care?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shindig
Not everyone is admitted to intensive care?
200 dying a day and only 2 make it to ICU? Are the NHS just not bothering to save people anymore then? Another e-victory for Lewis.
They're probably all being hit by buses.
Shinners might mean two a day being admitted to ICU? Last count I think was 384 on ventilation and that’s coming down rapidly. A lot of deaths these days are incidental (positive test but other contributors to death) because excess deaths aren’t really above the baseline.
Enough optimism. When's the next variant coming to town?
Was only thinking yesterday that I must get myself to a pub before the next one rolls in.
Deepti and her ilk aren't so tone deaf that they haven't realised this and have therefore chucked flu into the mix of viruses "we should be doing more about".Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
We need to be looking at cars while we're at it, they're fucking dangerous.
They are. Ban them.
Nope. County Durham and Darlington NHS trust. 2 total.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/deta...dation%20Trust
London accounts for over a third of England's ICU patients.
Well they're not getting any of my Easter Eggs this year.
Sorry I thought you meant national. I can't read.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shindig
I also read it as country.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-60362529
Just full on noise them to death.
:D what a country.
Still testing positive. Much longer in solitary confinement and I'm going to stray deep into heads have gone territory I reckon. Brain is like a foggy mess.
Just go for a walk.
Get in your racing seat and go for a drive.
I've probably got it again (:harold:) or perhaps the cold. We shall never know.
Why, do colds put you in hospital too?
How long until he's claiming that he's dying?
Let's hope it's not just claiming this time.
I do feel like shit overall, but no worse than a cold. Still going about my daily business. :)
Is there some kind of Newsletter we can sign up for?
It's a good job Jimmy's boss did make him go into the office for the last 2 years, you ain't ready for the truth we've all had to endure over the course of that period.
To Barnard Castle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boydy
I decided to actually read about these Canada/US protests... are they seriously protesting over the fact that a country is requiring a Covid vaccine to enter, or quarantine??
The fuck is wrong with these people? Why have grown-ass adults suddenly turned into 12 year year old kids having a tantrum?
Because it's not an organic protest and funded by those with an interest in destabilising both nations.
Are they the problem? I am triple vaccinated. So is my wife. So is my next door neighbour. Still caught Covid.Quote:
Originally Posted by John Arne
I think it's pretty clear now that the vaccines absolutely do not stop you from catching - and spreading - Covid. So what is the point in banning the unvaccinated? It's just punishing them for not doing what they're told, isn't it? It serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever.