Coronavirus Death Thread

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Plans to keep indoor hospitality venues closed for weeks longer than non-essential shops in England are facing a legal challenge from a leading restaurateur.

Hugh Osmond, the founder of Punch Taverns and a former director of Pizza Express, and Sacha Lord, Greater Manchester's night time economy adviser, have submitted a claim for a judicial review to the government.

They believe there is "no evidence or justification for the prioritisation" of non-essential retail over hospitality, and said it could have a "potentially indirectly discriminatory effect" on young people and people from BAME backgrounds working in hospitality.

The letter to the government's legal department argues that hospitality venues are safer than non-essential retail, and that they are essential for local communities and mental health.

Under the prime minister's roadmap for unlocking restrictions in England, non-essential retail will open no earlier than April 12. But indoor hospitality venues will not open until at least May 17.

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Some serious boxes being ticked there.

It has just dawned on me that we're currently locked down, with less cases than there were whilst we were at Pepper Pig World last September. And we have a vaccine now.

Madness.

Our unlock is genuinely unbelievably slow, especially where outdoors is concerned. My estimation now is that the final day of 100 deaths has been and gone, maybe yesterday or Friday.

They've been too slow to react to reality at basically every stage of the pandemic from day one onwards, and it continues.

I'd rather be in lockdown than Peppa Pig World.

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Originally Posted by Sir Andy Mahowry

I'd rather be in lockdown than Peppa Pig World.

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We are almost at the stage where I'd disagree. Almost.

What baffled me was an ONS professor warning us of a spike in August. By then, everyone will have had the jab offered to them. Every single one of us. 3 more months of this feels like agony and you know Boris won't move it earlier.

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Originally Posted by Jimmy Floyd

Our unlock is genuinely unbelievably slow, especially where outdoors is concerned. My estimation now is that the final day of 100 deaths has been and gone, maybe yesterday or Friday.

They've been too slow to react to reality at basically every stage of the pandemic from day one onwards, and it continues.

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Who do you consider to be 'they'?

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Originally Posted by Spikey M

It has just dawned on me that we're currently locked down, with less cases than there were whilst we were at Pepper Pig World last September. And we have a vaccine now.

Madness.

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But it's obvious why. We've had the experience of what happened last time and now have a vaccine which we're rolling out. There's very little point in having a rise in cases when we've almost crushed the numbers and we're running through the vaccine priority list. It's just a couple more months and then we have the clubs.

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Originally Posted by Shindig

What baffled me was an ONS professor warning us of a spike in August. By then, everyone will have had the jab offered to them. Every single one of us. 3 more months of this feels like agony and you know Boris won't move it earlier.

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He would if there was public demand for it. As things stand, it feels like most people would opt for another year of this shit given the choice.

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Originally Posted by Kikó

But it's obvious why. We've had the experience of what happened last time and now have a vaccine which we're rolling out. There's very little point in having a rise in cases when we've almost crushed the numbers and we're running through the vaccine priority list. It's just a couple more months and then we have the clubs.

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We're going to get a rise in case when we open up, whenever that may be, it's the deaths that matter and we could have pub gardens and restaurants open now and it would barely move that needle.

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Originally Posted by Kikó

But it's obvious why. We've had the experience of what happened last time and now have a vaccine which we're rolling out. There's very little point in having a rise in cases when we've almost crushed the numbers and we're running through the vaccine priority list. It's just a couple more months and then we have the clubs.

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I'm not saying Peppa Pig World should be open necessarily, but the case numbers do not fit with the level of lockdown we're under.

That "data not dates" line was horse shit.

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Originally Posted by Yevrah

Who do you consider to be 'they'?

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The government/SAGE/whoever makes these decisions. In a word, Boris.

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Originally Posted by Kikó

But it's obvious why. We've had the experience of what happened last time and now have a vaccine which we're rolling out. There's very little point in having a rise in cases when we've almost crushed the numbers and we're running through the vaccine priority list. It's just a couple more months and then we have the clubs.

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The rise in cases will come when we eventually open up everything for a free for all, but you don't have to open everything at once. There is no reason still to be in full lockdown. You should have been back playing football a month ago. Outdoor rule of six / outdoor table service at pubs etc should be open now. Their approach is just caution for the sake of caution.

Perhaps a bullshit slogan again but it makes sense to open parts of society up and see the impact it has. We're 30%+ of the country vaccinated, it's the last few weeks of a shit inconvenience. I'd rather wait the few weeks than go straight back into another lockdown.

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Originally Posted by Spikey M

That "data not dates" line was horse shit.

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Not necessarily, it just only works one way.

And for me, it's not the government's fault this is taking an age, it's experts, scientists and academics that have put us down this road. You could argue the government shouldn't be listening to them as much as they do, but then you'd have the rabid hordes of those that refuse to question people in those fields accusing the government of all sorts. So we are where we are.

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Originally Posted by Kikó

Perhaps a bullshit slogan again but it makes sense to open parts of society up and see the impact it has. We're 30%+ of the country vaccinated, it's the last few weeks of a shit inconvenience. I'd rather wait the few weeks than go straight back into another lockdown.

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The most amusing thing about a our staggered release, which dawned on me the other day, is that there isn't enough time between each stage of loosening to properly assess the impact the last one caused.

It's a sham to appease said groups above and the rabid hordes that slavishly follow them.

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Originally Posted by Kikó

Perhaps a bullshit slogan again but it makes sense to open parts of society up and see the impact it has. We're 30%+ of the country vaccinated, it's the last few weeks of a shit inconvenience. I'd rather wait the few weeks than go straight back into another lockdown.

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But there's no reason why we would. That 30+% is almost entirely from within the most vulnerable areas of society.

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Originally Posted by Spikey M

But there's no reason why we would. That 30+% is almost entirely from within the most vulnerable areas of society.

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Some scientists, experts and academics think we would and that's enough for people. They're wrong, but their voice is a powerful one amongst the educated.

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Originally Posted by Yevrah

The most amusing thing about a our staggered release, which dawned on me the other day, is that there isn't enough time between each stage of loosening to properly assess the impact the last one caused.

It's a sham to appease said groups above and the rabid hordes that slavishly follow them.

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5 weeks for each phase isn't it? That should be enough time to see the direction of travel in terms of deaths/cases/etc...

I'm with Kiko, I can see the light at the end of the tunnel, but do not see a reason to rush it. To do so would be irresponsible (from a government perspective).

Whitty was talking the other week how they staggered the stages long enough to see the impact. With the rapid flow tests, we can see quickly what bringing the schools back does to transmission.

1. It's not 5 weeks for each phase.
2. Test results aren't a measure of whether we roll this back

Yev 2-0 Science.

Kiko's move to being a mid-60s woman with underlying health conditions that wants to lockdown forever is something else. Especially when you consider he's living with his in-laws in Fife. U ok m8

Stop trying to push your own soiled underpant wearing onto me. I've no real desire to have a locked down environment for longer than necessary but can understand why *now* at the this point, the governments approach actually seems at its more rational.

I agree with Yev to an extent there that we are probably fast approaching (or already at) the point where cases are not the metric we look at. It’s hospitalisations and deaths. Barring a disaster variant, I can’t see how deaths won’t stay in the double digits or hopefully lower.

I agree but they're cases first before they hit the ward, usually. With Kent sweeping the world, we should be in a decent spot.

It's not even me saying it, I'm going by the government's roadmap announcement.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56158405

https://i.postimg.cc/nLvjcWgW/117140...-v2-640-nc.png

Point 3. there. So if a load of school children test positive, that in and of itself won't derail the roadmap.

I have to say, having lived abroad for the majority of my life and being the anti-establishment guy I am, I’ve never felt that the UK has done something better than over here but this vaccine rollout has me raging. I am legally obligated to pay 400 quid a month to an insurance company and I’ve been to the doctor once in 10 years and even then I had to pay for my prescription. Now you can’t even get me a vaccine before October?

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Originally Posted by phonics

I have to say, having lived abroad for the majority of my life and being the anti-establishment guy I am, I’ve never felt that the UK has done something better than over here but this vaccine rollout has me raging. I am legally obligated to pay 400 quid a month to an insurance company and I’ve been to the doctor once in 10 years and even then I had to pay for my prescription. Now you can’t even get me a vaccine before October?

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:harold:

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Originally Posted by Yevrah

1. It's not 5 weeks for each phase.
2. Test results aren't a measure of whether we roll this back

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How's your maths?...


Phase 1 - 8 March

5 weeks later...

Phase 2 - not before 12 April

5 weeks later...

Phase 3 - not before 17 May

5 weeks later...

Phase 4 - not before 21 June

My maths is fine, I'm counting 29th March (as that's when the fun starts and people will be in each other's houses all over the shop) as a step. Why the government haven't I don't know as, raves aside, it's game over for police enforcement at that stage.

For me it's when the restaurants open and indoor events. That's really going to improve things imo. 'Things' being our way of life.

The rest I already do and have done since the first lockdown.

Be interesting when the population are asked to go back into the office full time. Some people are going to kick off.

The only thing that stops me going back to the office is the workload almost requires me to not give a shit half an hour, every hour. I don't see me going back until I have to hand the equipment back and get my marching orders.

My missus has already had their ceo saying everyone get back to London for the 29th. This will be quickly forgotten by many.

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Originally Posted by Kikó

My missus has already had their ceo saying everyone get back to London for the 29th. This will be quickly forgotten by many.

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That's interesting. Is she in the banking sector. My wife's sister works for one of the big lenders and they're trying to get everyone back into Canary Wharf asap, much to her dismay.

They haven't publicised it much, so in case anyone here isn't aware, we're allowed in each other's gardens from 29th March.

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Originally Posted by Dquincy

That's interesting. Is she in the banking sector. My wife's sister works for one of the big lenders and they're trying to get everyone back into Canary Wharf asap, much to her dismay.

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Nope, but her boss is obsessed with everyone being back asap despite sales being at their best.

We've been told June (and we're going to 2 out /3in split likely).

None of you are allowed in my garden. Fuck off.

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Originally Posted by Kikó

Nope, but her boss is obsessed with everyone being back asap despite sales being at their best.

We've been told June (and we're going to 2 out /3in split likely).

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I’m hoping the Council stay with WFH for the next year at least. They’re saving a fortune with everything pretty much running as normal so here’s hoping.

I think WFH is going to be the way of the future. My work has already announced shutting down all but one of our offices (the one we own) and going "agile". Which basically means "work from home but you can book a desk for a couple of hours if you really must".

The only threat is the government taking some form of action to incentivise going into the office. WFH is bad for too much of the economy. Public Transport and restaurants would take a big hit alone.

A few hundred thousand redundancies will do it.

Mass working from home will be a disaster and not just for Costa Coffee. You can't build teams or relationships or anything if you never meet face to face. You can 'get the job done' but it's bollocks.

The two blokes in my team who have been WFH during the pandemic (while I heroically soldier in for them) have both turned into complete wetwipes since WFH.

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Originally Posted by Lewis

A few hundred thousand redundancies will do it.

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They're coming either way.

WFH should be maintained just to fist the train companies if nothing else.

We can dona whip around and furlough Lofty.

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Originally Posted by Jimmy Floyd

Mass working from home will be a disaster and not just for Costa Coffee. You can't build teams or relationships or anything if you never meet face to face. You can 'get the job done' but it's bollocks.

The two blokes in my team who have been WFH during the pandemic (while I heroically soldier in for them) have both turned into complete wetwipes since WFH.

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I hold the death of socialising more responsibile for that. I don't miss the office one bit. I'll happily work from the spare room for the rest of my days if I can meet up with a mate after work, or go to a family barbecue at the weekend.

We've had 2 days WFH per week written into our new contracts and flexibility to do more has been spoken about. Rest assured, the ship has sailed, our kids won't even know of the concept of a commute.

You can keep your current job going on it, sure, but what if you wanted to move jobs, move industries, whatever, and it's all just another set of zoom faces and a slightly different email system with no relationships, no talking around work/getting to know each other, no chat with colleagues or proper management or anything other than pre-arranged web calls with agendas? That state of affairs won't hold, for business, regardless of how much office outlay they'd like to shed for the bottom line. Not in a million years.

Relationships can still be built (as this place shows). Office chit-chat and 'proper management' are the sorts of things that need to be discarded as the shift happens but for the next decade or two, it'll be a mix of home and office working until the VR headsets are fine-tuned.

No way is this the death of the office. Office working is needed (admittedly not all sectors). For instance, how are you to mentor graduates and newbies when not in the same office as them?

Also, quality control of work output and staff workload is a lot harder to monitor with WFH.

I admit the public sector will do WFH, but they are a different animal compared to a private company chasing the £££.

Jim's right, trying to build a team over Teams would be far harder than face to face.

Public sector stuffed shirts ticking boxes, I can't comment on that. For any organisation that has to be dynamic, or has to build something new or different or creative, rather than just maintaining a rota for mowing the grass verge alongside the A62, no chance, you'll need a physical workplace and you'll need most people to be at it most of the time.

I'm pretty sure that will still be the case well beyond VR or any other technological milestone you care to think of. The internet's made life easier but it hasn't eliminated the basics of human social behaviour.

Part of me misses the office bullshit. Seeing people day-to-day that are complete and utter messes complain and struggle about basic things. We got an email on Friday about the coffee maker in the meeting room FOR MEETING ATTENDEES ONLY! I would've loved to see that strop or the guilty parties not giving a fuck.