I'll look forward to my e-victory.
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I'll look forward to my e-victory.
Progress are a bunch of jebends.
No one is scared of that. The 'moderates' spend all their fucking time attacking Corbyn in the press. Thy don't even bother attacking the Tories.Quote:
Originally Posted by GS
As long as they're aware of the scale of electoral defeat that awaits them. Every Labour government ever has been 'moderate'.
I think the issue is more that Corbyn et al (henceforward the "hard left") actually see the soft left or the centre within Labour as a bigger enemy than the Tories. The soft left or the centre have somehow betrayed the cause and corrupted the message of the hard left, therefore they can't move on to attacking the Tories until such time as they have purified the "non-right".Quote:
Originally Posted by Boydy
I don't see any other explanation for attacking moderates - centre or centre left by any normal definition of the terms - as "hard right" or "red Tories". That we are several months into the Corbyn leadership and it continues is evidence that it's a fight the hard left are determined to win.
What? You've got it completely arse about tit. Corbyn and his supporters do attack the Tories. The 'moderates' i.e. Chuka Umunna and twats like him are the ones who spend all their fucking time slagging off Corbyn in the press. If they put their energy into attacking the Tories instead maybe they'd have a better chance of winning.
Look at Simon Danczuk, the fucking prick. Had his little column in the Mail on Sunday slagging off his own party instead of attacking the real enemy. Nice to see the rightwing media have turned on him now though.
Dan Jarvis is getting in on the act now too.
Nobody's doing any winning with these cretins in charge though. People don't vote for left wing agendas. Ever.
McDonnell has attacked Progress as "hard right", Livingstone has suggested sacking members of the Shadow Cabinet, Seamus Milne and his team have been briefing about revenge sackings, Diane Abbott has been doing whatever Diane Abbott does. The Corbyn clique have attacked moderate elements within Labour, and have done so repeatedly by citing Corbyn's mandate and the views of the membership as cover.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boydy
This is entirely legitimate for the leadership, but Corbyn's views are not aligned with either current Labour party policy (e.g. Trident, NATO) or with the views of many of the PLP. They are entirely within their rights also to attack Corbyn's direction - from the backbenches - particularly if they believe his views are likely to lead to electoral annihilation.
Recent polling (an example of which is posted above) indicates huge gaps on the economy and security. The internationalist issues which Corbyn and the hard left care about barely register with the electorate. They are incapable of winning, which is surely self-evident to you at this point.
There is no 'status quo' in Europe. If you vote to stay in, you're voting for further integration (and giving them a blank cheque to take the piss).
I don't disagree. I'm still voting to leave.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewis
That isn't what people will be voting for though. They'll be voting for Cameron's reformed EU in which we get to keep the good bits and dump the bits people don't like. Never mind that it won't be real.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewis
This is the key - I don't think people will be stupid enough to fall for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
Perhaps, but the real question is do they care enough to reject it. I doubt it very much. I just don't see any evidence that the EU is some huge net negative. Now that's my view and I'd be voting remain regardless but but I haven't yet seen an argument (in years of hearing anti-EU rhetoric) which has made me think "that's going to turn people against membership". If I were on the opposite side of the fence that would worry me.
Open borders is surely a massive one, for a kick off.
We aren't part of Schengen though and once on the continent we benefit from that in the same way anybody does. People will be more concerned about the EU's external borders being properly managed since that was the real fuck up.
That will (have to) be sorted now and, anyway, imternal borders probably aren't going to be open in the way that they were for some time now. Which in my view is a massive shame as I think open borders within the EU are a great thing, but you can't win 'em all.
I meant free movement of trade within that as well, which whatever you think of it is clearly a massive issue for many.
The only way that LEAVE can win is if there's a massive and prolonged media storm which promotes the idea of immigration and the EU being one and the same.
At the moment people know they don't like immigration, but they have absolutely no idea that that has anything to do with the EU. Indeed I'd question how many know what the EU is.
Seriously, what makes you think that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy Floyd
Yeah I get that. I just don't think it will be big enough. It has been something with high profile opposition forever (even during the period when polls were being accurate) and yet the polls have consistently had most saying they want us to stay in. As you say, we'll see.
Every time people get asked in polls for unprompted 'most important issues' they all name immigration (I think it's number one at the moment, ahead of even the economy) but the EU isn't even in the top 15.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yevrah
People aren't stupid but they are ignorant.
A look at polling responses tells you. Immigration is consistently toward the top of the issues people care about most. Europe is at the bottom, often with less than 5% of respondents citing it as at all important. If people connected the two there wouldn't be that difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yevrah
There's also that there is clearly a racial element to anti-immigration feeling (and that's not me saying it's racist to not like immigration, just that it's a factor for some who don't). European immigrants are white and contribute to the economy. Non-European immigrants often aren't white (and so are more visible for one) and contribute less economically.
Someones had at the Jeremy Corbyn Twitter. Genuinely looks like there's been a wrestling of the keyboard.
"“@jeremycorbyn: fucktrident\]"
“@jeremycorbyn: david cameron is a pie
The European Union would work fine (well, relatively speaking) if it was western European nations with comparable standards of living only - you'd gain as many as you lose. When it was opened up to less advanced economies from the former Soviet bloc, the movement of people was only ever going to go one way and cause longer-term problems. It's one of the reasons you can't have Turkey in. That and they can't control their own borders with the likes of fucking Syria as it is.
People will chimp out if you start telling them if they leave it'll be a massive ballache every time they want to go to Ibiza or whatever.
Not enough people want to leave than will be concerned to vote to stay. I believe we should stay.
'davey cameron' will be the work of a nat.
Can he manage anything to any sort of required standard?
I'd like to think that is Corbyn, pissed off his face.
I love that someone got ahold of the account and then just purely used it for juvenile pranks and swearing :D
What are we supposed to be looking at in those Corbyn tweets?
There was a great debate/interview between Daniel Hannan and Natalie Bennett the other week on the European Union. Bennett basically said everything about the European Union is shithouse, but her solution was to elect Green governments who could 'make it work for ordinary people'. It's almost a culture really. People simply can't imagine not being in it (as they can't imagine not being a nuclear power).
He is such a cunt.
Simon is Simon driven. What kind of wank is that?
I'm just going to place this here, as a reminder.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Tc6Cb3wHu8
I think even the most enthusiastic of Corbyn supporters would have to acknowledge that she shouldn't really be representing Labour. She's an MP, for fuck sake.
I'm amazed she refused to answer that last question he asked about whether she just wanted to clarify that white and Asian mothers can be just as good as West Indian mothers. I don't think I've ever seen such an obvious racist in mainstream politics or such a hyprocrite.
A series of interesting polls released this evening:
Westminster voting intention:
CON: 40% (-)
LAB: 29% (-)
UKIP: 16% (-)
LDEM: 7% (-)
GRN: 3% (-)
(via ComRes / 13 - 15 Jan)
"Jeremy Corbyn's Labour Party is united":
Agree: 8%
Disagree: 73%
(via ComRes)
"David Cameron's Conservative Party is united":
Agree: 36%
Disagree: 42%
(via ComRes)
"Jeremy Corbyn would make a good Prime Minister":
Agree: 22%
Disagree: 56%
(via ComRes)
"David Cameron is a good Prime Minister":
Agree: 42%
Disagree: 40%
(via ComRes)
"I expect most people to vote for the UK to..."
Leave the EU: 40%
Remain a member of the EU: 38%
(via ComRes)
"David Cameron should stop accepting refugees coming into the UK from Syria":
Agree: 61%
Disagree: 23%
(via ComRes)
On the junior doctors' strike:
Support: 51%
Oppose: 31%
(via ComRes)
On sending parents to parenting classes:
Support: 46%
Oppose: 30%
(via ComRes)
On increasing focus on rehabilitation rather than sending criminals to prison:
Support: 35%
Oppose: 41%
(via ComRes)
On requiring EU nationals who come to the UK to pay taxes for 4 years before claiming welfare:
Support: 84%
Oppose: 8%
(via ComRes)
On scrapping the automatic financial link between trade union membership and the Labour Party:
Support: 54%
Oppose: 11%
(via ComRes)
On citizens of EU countries being free to work in other EU countries:
Support: 49%
Oppose: 29%
(via ComRes)
On renewing our Trident nuclear weapons programme "as long as other countries have nuclear weapons":
Support: 54%
Oppose: 22%
(via ComRes)
On the UK "leading the way in nuclear disarmament by not renewing its Trident nuclear weapons programme":
Support: 31%
Oppose: 35%
(ComRes)
On "the UK having a nuclear weapon":
Support: 49%
Oppose: 28%
(via ComRes)
On "the UK getting rid of its nuclear weapons":
Support: 25%
Oppose: 48%
(via ComRes)
It's pretty self explanatory no?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shindig
Andrew Neil can hardly accuse her of racism in that video, when he implies that West Indian parents aren't any good.
Think Dan Hannan was very good here
Hannan is the best Eurosceptic in the business, and if there are any televised debates he is the obvious choice.
I was thinking he should probably lead it. What's stopping them? Everyone else is running a mile from LEAVE and the UKIP lot are all either idiots, or knobhead idiots. He distances them from the 1990s awkward squad, could also have the Cleggmania novelty factor come the actual campaign.
They're probably like Chelsea and want a proven, MASSIVE name.
He's given Our NHS shit in the past, so it wouldn't surprise me if he was wary of that becoming an issue.
Probably up there with Carswell's defection in the strategic brilliance stakes.
Oh well. Enoch Powell can lead it from beyond the grave.
King Arthur is meant to come back when we're really in the shit, so maybe Enoch will rise in the final weeks if the polls start wavering.
If Neil was racist (he wasn't) that wouldn't stop her being so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reg
Nonsense. Farage is a natianal treasure and only offense taking professionals dislike him. Admittedly, that's a lot of people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy Floyd
He's quite funny but he has the intellectual reach of a fruit salad, which probably explains why you like him so much.
You don't need to be an intellectual to be a good communicator. Some of the most intellectual people would be the worst 'frontmen'. Not that you're right, anyway.