https://i.ibb.co/bM5cBwFT/Screenshot...0913-Brave.jpg
We'll be fine.
https://i.ibb.co/bM5cBwFT/Screenshot...0913-Brave.jpg
We'll be fine.
They crucially include crown dependencies in that which includes a lot of 'services'. Saved from Trump's wrath by Brexit and the tax havens, this will spin a few heads.
Imagine thinking trump thinks logically like this. 🥲
There's nothing to tariff lol. Whisky?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kikó
Imagine thinking anyone who was against Brexit will ever admit, under any circumstances, that it was a good thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy Floyd
What was a good thing, brexit? 🥲
The markets have reacted well this morning.
European markets live updates: stocks, news, data and earnings https://search.app/Jt4wVRLNo3Hh6cRG8
Brexit was just a thing that happened. It had been coming for a long time. It is pointless to try and rationlise it one way or the other, no one on either side of the divide will be particularly convinced one way or the other. Trying to say it was qualitatively good or bad is like saying it would have been better to let all those people die of covid and just keep on trucking. It has probably been handled pretty badly to date, but that was predictable, the whole process was designed to be as harmful as possible, and I'm not sure not being dragged into some sort of disaster by a madman necessarily gets a massive tick the the it was a good thing column.
Will be interesting how Trumponomics clashes with all the classical economists saying how silly and a bad idea this all is, given that most publicly facing economists are wrong about almost everything almost all of the time.
If one believes that post-1990 liberal consensus lasts forever then Brexit was a bad thing, which is why all the people most invested in that are also the people most invested in Brexit being a disaster. I voted leave because that's obviously not going to be the case, I am a British patriot and believe we will need agility and nimbleness in the future that being part of a 28 nation bloc does not afford.
There are inconveniences and costs and the ledger book doesn't currently add up but it will be worth it.
Thank you for proving my point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kikó
Objectively Brexit had not been a good thing. Happy to be proven otherwise but it's not really here nor there for this discussion.
It hasn't been, but I'm not sure we'd be any better off had Remain won. It's not as if the EU aren't facing most of the same issues we are.
It was a symbolic thing more than anything, never anything practical. Nobody is better or worse off.
You could probably argue the whole thing has been equally 'harmful' the other way in distracting from / ostensibly stopping the drive towards federalism.
I mean, I voted remain and given the choice I'd vote to rejoin, but I acknowledge that as with pretty much everything, there are pro's and cons. Not everyone that voted remain became a lunatic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yevrah
How long do we have to wait for things to get better? That’s a genuine question, the two biggest things let’s control our immigration and make the NHS better which is what it was all sold on have gotten far worse since we left.
And I’m very much in that camp as well. There is plenty wrong with the EU and I actually do think Brexit could be made to work, but only really if we actually built and made things and if we actually had a degree of competence leading the country.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spikey M
They don't get better. All they're interested in is GDP and growth. And for that they either need a massive fluke, like they had with the advent of the Internet (which is why they're so desperate to make AI the nations new religion) or more people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Emia
Mass immigration was not an accident and I don't believe the managed decline of the NHS is either. Slow but steady privatisation is the aim.
Which is all well and good, but have a re-read of what I said.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kikó
A hypothetical posed, but you couldn't wait to jump on it being bad. The point being there will still be many people (not all to be fair as Spikey says) that irrespective of the circumstances will never concede it as a good thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yevrah
"Why can't you consider the thing that's been absolutely no good as a good thing. I'm very intelligent"
If it allows us to dodge huge tariffs from the Yanks, that's a good thing? No?Quote:
Originally Posted by phonics
This is too easy and so unbelievably predictable.
I don't understand what it's got to do with what I said. Trump is a zero sum game person and doesn't care whether the UK has a surplus or deficit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yevrah
You're going to have to explain this, please.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yevrah
Aren't you rolling on zero growth? Probably good that they don't try to fix immigration or the NHS or you would probably all be sent to Haiti and paying 100% taxes to fund the NHS if they did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spikey M
Leaving the European Union was a means to an end, and they have either failed to take advantage of its potential benefits (trade, regulations, etc.) or deliberately fucked things up (immigration). It was always only going to be as good or as pointless as our governments wanted it to be, and we have had dogshit governments since.
We are. Hence the immigration. I honestly don't think they know what to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepe
So how does making it infinitely harder to trade with our closest and biggest trading partner become advantageous?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewis
By taking advantage of being able to do things that members of the EU can't do. Norway have done so very nicely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic
Like what and how?Quote:
Originally Posted by Spikey M
I don't know, I am Yevrah. It was the Leave plan though, wasn't it. Leave the EU, cut up the regulations that stop us from over-fishing, fracking, marrying 9 year olds, etc. Then cash in on the fact that none of our EU rivals can compete.Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic
Now, obviously, we didn't do that and here we are. I will leave the how's and whys to others.
So you stated it as a fact and have no evidence?Quote:
Originally Posted by Spikey M
Evidence? We're talking on TTH, not having a debate at your Student Union you fanny.
Right. So I had a thing that worked and now I did something and it's shit. But it could have worked. Not sure how but it could have.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spikey M
No, you're right. The EU is paradise right now and it's only everyone outside of it that's struggling.
As already stated, I voted remain. I would vote to rejoin. I'm simply capable of playing devil's advocate and understanding that there were potentially ways that leaving the EU could have worked in our favour if we had capable leaders.
I never said that. We are now much worse off financially than we were before, and our immigration is fucked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spikey M
Devils advocate is fine, but you need evidence to demonstrate how it was incompetent leadership that caused BREXIT to fail rather than it was just a stupid idea with no possibility of being good.
In which case you need evidence that we had something that was working while we were in the EU. Because last time I checked the economy has been fucked since 2007.
At least, unlike our grown up in the room European betters we aren't going to be voting in actual Nazis, at least not for a few years.
Norway is an interesting example. Their extremist left wing government is coming under increasing pressure to justify things like their wealth taxes. These are the times we are in.
The proper lefties wanted Brexit as well, just as a reminder.
War of the Roses was a right cunt as well, IIRC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spikey M
Main point is, after BREXIT, graphs go down, apart from one...how much more wealth was transferred up. COVID caused both of these lines to go in their respective directions even harder.
I think Brexit is probably one of the few seismic political spasms of recent times that can't be put down to elite conspiracy, other than in perhaps a very localised/self-serving way for people like Boris. Very much not what was wanted by the establishment and really not in 'their' interests at all.
It actually seems like anything bad that happens almost always benefits the already rich and fucks the already poor.Quote:
Originally Posted by niko_cee
For example:
https://www.economicshelp.org/wp-con...gains.png.webp
Which is exactly why leave won. First and foremost, it was a middle finger to piggy fucking Etonian.Quote:
Originally Posted by niko_cee
Yeah, take even MORE money you pig fucker!Quote:
Originally Posted by Spikey M
Needless to say, I had the last laugh.
Of course. You only need to look at the 2008 financial crisis. Millionaires and Billionaires bailed out at great expense to tax payers. Not one of them faced any consequences for crashing the economy and we're still paying for it nearly 20 years laterQuote:
Originally Posted by Magic
I like this graph. Very clear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic
They need a much more granular breakdown of that. The top 1% will be 100s if not 1000s of percent up, the next tranche to top 5 will be doing very nicely, bet it flattens out a lot after that.
But does it look any different to how it would look if Remain had won?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kikó
It's why Remain didn't win. The 'Top 20%' is basically everybody with a house in the South and pensioners.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spikey M
It probably would have still gone up, but not as fast or hard. It came at the worst possible time as well, with the COVID bonfire.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spikey M