https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52518186
Oof.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-51235105
The first map on there says there has been a total of 239,489 deaths from Coronavirus. How the fuck have we had more than 10% of global deaths?
Because of the countries telling the truth about their numbers. You have an elderly, unhealthy population, an underfunded health system and took the least precautions until it was everywhere?
Yep. We didn't lock down quickly enough is why our number is so high.
And Phonics is bang on, other countries are lying/recording deaths badly.
And stick all the as yet unrecorded care home deaths in Spikey and we'll be well above 40,000 already.
Granted, but 10% of deaths is still pretty shocking for a country of our size.Quote:
Originally Posted by phonics
This testing story as well is hilarious. Claiming you're doing 100,000 tests a day when you're just posting them to people :D
But it's not actually 10% of deaths if the other numbers aren't reliable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spikey M
A stats competition vs the world doesn't really matter in the bigger picture anyway.
No matter the lies. The country is fucked.
Imagine that being your takeaway.Quote:
Since the programme aired, a number of NHS workers who were interviewed for it were reported to be either longstanding members or supporters of the Labour party.
Care home deaths is going to be the real story when we look back at this at the eventual enquiry our government will face.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yevrah
The way they've handled this shit within the care system is a disgrace. Not providing PPE was bad, but they started off actively advising against carers using it. I sway between thinking they just don't give a shit about the care sector and thinking that they've actively carried out a cull.
What exactly is the issue with this? The kits allow the people to get tested, there is no issue with counting them as part of the testing number as has been backed up by the scientists. If the country shipped out 70m testing kits to every household problem of testing would be solved. Keep this crying for twitter where the crowd lap it up.Quote:
Originally Posted by phonics
Of course it does. It's a direct result of the incompetence of our government.Quote:
Originally Posted by Giggles
Your own numbers going up or down vs your own numbers would be far more worthwhile rather than bighty vs the planet again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spikey M
It's been really bad. There's been more than a whiff of manipulation throughout this with everything behind the cult of THE SCIENCE.Quote:
Originally Posted by phonics
Science isn't the cult here, it's the government. Hence why your culture secretary is accusing NHS workers of being bias nonces like they're journos saying something not nice about Liverpool.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yevrah
The problem with the Panorama programme was that, when the National Health Service employs half the country, the BBC somehow only managed to interview Labour activists (there were also wider issues conflating 'the government' with nominally independent bodies where it suited them). And you like to consider yourself a cynic...
I get it Lewis, you don't like people saying mean things about your political football club. And you can't actually refute any of the points they made so you have to call in on your magical sword of 'BIAS' to cut them down.
The government that's heavily influenced by scientists.Quote:
Originally Posted by phonics
Weird that your government heavily influenced by scientists disagreed with the actions of the rest of the continent that were also influenced by scientists.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yevrah
You must have got a bad batch of scientists.
Weren't you the one that said SARS was a WHO conspiracy to get funding?
I have no information with which to refute any of their points. That ought to have been the point of the programme. As far as anyone can tell I think the government has done alright, all things considered, and insofar as you can actually count at the minute we're doing about the same as comparable countries. Beyond that... What? It says more about your consistently wank approach to all of this that you can only read that as cheering them on.Quote:
Originally Posted by phonics
No I wasn't, you lunatic.Quote:
Originally Posted by phonics
And we do have bad scientists, that much is clear as day. Look at when we locked down, the approach to face masks. The bullshit about not being able to compare countries. The list goes on.
When you locked down was a political decision purely made to be different to the remainder of Europe in the hope of getting something up on them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yevrah
Last I checked Sweden was in Europe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Giggles
As are a much larger number of other countries also. But yes, pick one isolated example to make a great point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yevrah
You were even wanking yourself silly here over the idea of the power of the empire in the world if the herd thing worked.
What about deaths due to delayed treatments or suicide? Will be far higher imo.
You can be such an odd man sometimes Giggs.
Am I making it up? He was ready to go full mast and start pillaging again once this was all over.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spikey M
"But Sweden is in Europe"; And I'm the odd one. Away and lie in your piss with that one.
We were definitely holding off on lockdown for political reasons. I don't think it was to spite the EU but more from the idea that shutting the country down is unheard of. Sweden refused to do it because of the conundrum leaving lockdown becomes. What was horrendous about our response was how slow and plodding it was. There was no proactivity to it. No decisiveness and, when you wait, you cost lives.
If the way we implemented LOCKDOWN has proven to be decisive, then it would follow that everything done since then must have been far better than what other countries are doing, otherwise we would be streaking away from them.
You appear to be making it up, yes.
We're for the most part discussing how shit we have dealt with this and you're banging on as if we've burst into a collective verse of 'There'll always be an England'.
When discussing a world wide pandemic, it is a fair unit of measure to compare how other similar populations have dealt with it.
You're not in a collective verse because you haven't "donned" everyone like you thought you would.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spikey M
You're having a pop at our superiority complex whilst literally nobody is exhibiting one.
You might also want to mull over what it says about yourself that you're so happy with the situation, yet a few months back you were convinced that we'd be celebrating a terrorist attack in Dublin.
What are you on about?Quote:
Originally Posted by Giggles
I was consistently clear about thinking we should have locked down, but appreciated that if our initial strategy was the right one (it wasn't, what a surprise) it would put us in a position of strength.
Giggles' worldview is this but with him at the end of the line.
That’s quite the little pile-on. Never like being called on it. I think that’s always been the ultimate problem for centuries really.
https://www.covidlive.co.uk/
Local statistics for local people.
Pretty certain one of my old friends dad has now died from Corona. Was in ICU for a few weeks. In his seventies.
Lol at bad scientists. Get a fucking grip of yourselves.
Silly me. I forgot that all scientists are unquestionably good. They practice THE SCIENCE, so they must be.Quote:
Originally Posted by 7om
They are unquestionably highly trained and experts in their field. Science isn't a black and white world like what you live in. There is interpretation to be made. Our "scientists" made decisions made on the best evidence available which they thought were best for us.
To simply label that as bad is ridiculous
It's also very theoretical. There is no example you can point to that can fully map to this one. So they're gathering data and hypothesising on the fly.
But as has been covered in this thread before, if that's the view that's taken of the the decisions they made then they can never be seen as wrong. Which is a luxury I don't think is afforded to any other profession the world over.Quote:
Originally Posted by 7om
Was there no a book series about bad science or something.
Horrible science. That was it. So much better than horrible history.
And to hammer this home, this applies to everything. Everything. Except, and it's crucial difference, the people making other decisions don't get anywhere near this level of the benefit of the doubt.Quote:
Originally Posted by 7om
Most other professions don’t have to deal with an outbreak of a virus that has an unknown virulence, unknown disease course, unknown treatments. I don’t envy these people one iota because they are having to make enormous decisions with very little evidence to guide them. No matter what they do, it cannot be totally correct given the circumstances. While it is obviously not a case of “they can never be wrong”, they are working in unprecedented circumstances so I think they deserve a but of leeway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yevrah
Why don't the government deserve this same leeway then? Everything you've said there applies to them too, yet people have no problem criticising them. But the scientists? God forbid.Quote:
Originally Posted by 7om
I haven’t criticized the government once exactly because they are as much in the dark as “the scientists”. You’ll find it’s the usual complainers and moaners who are having a pop at the government at the moment, so that should tell you something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yevrah
10% of people that have died from this resided in the UK.Quote:
Originally Posted by 7om
There 7.5 billion people in the world. 66.5 million in the UK. And yet 10% of those dead are from here. That's shit.
The Care Homes that are currently rife with this shit were told not to bother with PPE by 'the scientists'. That's shit.
We didn't lock down for weeks, despite seeing Italy desperately battle to control their situation. A situation that they had very little warning of. Instead, we went to watch the horse racing and the football. That's shit.
You can't just roll your eyes at this stuff and call people 'moaners'. Our response has been absolutely fucking awful. They weren't 'in the dark'. They had months and weeks of notice. From China to Italy.
Nobody knows what the true figure is on deaths. That comes down to classification on the death certificate, unknown deaths in the community etc. I’m not saying we haven’t got a high death toll, just that we don’t know what that looks like in other countries. And this isn’t over yet, there are countries with far worse health systems than ours that will be absolutely ravaged by this. What our numbers look like at this minute is irrelevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spikey M
As much as people like to call it shit, we were in the dark and continue to be in the dark right now. Just because you know about the virus that does not mean you know how to deal with it. What if Italy had a particularly super ‘super spreader’ that accounted for a vast number of cases, or what if they had a different strain to the one found in the UK? I could go on and on playing devils advocate and that is the point. When you’re so in the dark, how can you expect perfect decisions to be made? It’s unrealistic.
Our response to this has not been awful at all. It’s been guided by real-time collection of evidence while average Joe shits himself and demands answers and solutions. That is not easy.