Game of Thrones Series 6: sponsored by Clarke Excitement Vacuum vs. Dinklage

[Ian]

I reckon Littlefinger makes it near to the end and thinks he's going to make it and then Arya shanks him. Not based on any theories or foreshadowing or anything, just because I think it might happen.

I know it's never going to happen but Dragontits and her napalm machines really need to become some variety of baddies at some point here. Not a chance because she's going to be the one to do in a load of undead, but still.

"Fewer." :cool:

Great episode that.

[Mazuuurk]

It's mostly been theories I've heard/discussed with friends, nothing solid. But with Arya having seen him mingle with Tywin Lannister, Bran being Bran and Jon Snow not liking him you'd imagine his chances are not the best.


Yeah but his "chances" have been absolutely woeful all throughout the whole series, as no-one likes him and he's scheming with everyone.
That is precisely why it seems like he'll be the one or one of the ones who'll end up on top in the end.

[Adramelch]

"Fewer." :cool:

Davos just knocked that whole sequence out of the park.

How many men do we have in the North to fight? 10,000? Less?"
FEWER

What did you think?
Of who?
I think you know of WHOM I speak
She has a good heart
Yes, I see you were staring at her good heart

"Will you forgive me if I switched sides"

"You can't be free if you're still serving somebody"

"King Jon or "King Snow"

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Davos has been stealing every scene he's been in this season.

I'm also surprised that Littlefinger isn't on Arya's list but I think he will make it on there.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The best ending would be Littlefinger on the Iron Throne. Chaos really is a ladder. He has been dicking around at Winterfell for a while now, he'll soon be off to see the Microwaver of Rice I'm sure. She'd hate him as well.

That episode was great. The sound of the Dothraki horde coming and fear in the commanders was amazing. Aside from the battle ('flee you fucking idiot' the best line in it), I loved the Arya/Sansa scenes but Sansa was getting all mopey during the fighting scene with Brienne, so not sure what that was all about.

No chance Jaime dies, he might switch sides though.

[Raoul Duke]

If this season doesn't end with Bronn and Tyrion kicking it old school and bantering some White Walkers to death I'm going to be disappointed

[John]

I think that was just Sansa realising Arya wasn't fucking around with her shit list and growing worried that she was genuinely planning to go to a place Sansa knows to be a hellhole to try to kill the Queen.

I watched the leaked copy and initially thought Tyrion said 'kill her, you idiot' because the audio was ever so slightly muffled. That would have been a quality moment for a heel turn, but the line as it actually happened was brilliant too.

[Raoul Duke]

He was surrounded by Dothraki mentalists, so it'd have been a brave call

[John]

None of whom speak English, and he muttered it almost under his breath. I just wound it back to make sure because it seemed like a mad thing for him to say, but giving it some thought after the episode I decided it would have been a quality turn.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Is there any reason why Mark Gatiss has to rock up to do the same scene in every episode? A bank lends money, you say?

Littlefinger is becoming quite unintentionally funny. 'Who owned this dagger?' 'Oi don't know, to be sure, to be sure.'

[Lewis]

He also speaks purely by breathing out.

[ItalAussie]

Not a prayer that Littlefinger gets out of Winterfell.

The only reason they kept him alive this season is so Bran can out him and Arya can kill him. He's not serving any purpose anymore. The story's gotten bigger than him.

[ItalAussie]

My big prediction for the ending is the dragons die but save the day, and the world's magic dies with it.

[ItalAussie]

The AV Club had a quote which I like a lot, about the travel times, etc.


Yeah, but what is the alternative? Lots of insterstitial cards that say the dates (six days later...)? Giant masses of men and ships being gone for 10 episodes at a time? Characters walking around doing exposition dumps?

"Oh, the queen isn't here, Theon. She left exactly four days ago, which is the amount of time it takes to sail to the mainland and ride 200 miles while sending riders and dragons ahead to make sure no word reaches the Lannister armies in the field. Sorry, Bro."

"Damn it, if only somebody would have told me that 4 weeks ago when I convinced these men to bring me here, which was six days after the staggering onslaught that Euron Greyjoy sprung upon our ships before he sailed to King's landing with his hostages, then left immediately to intercept the Targaryen navy."

"Ah, I wouldn't know, I've been mining dragon glass for the last 8 days and 4 hours..."

[Mazuuurk]

And anyway, the books are written much in the same manner.

[Bernanke]

Jon and Dany has way better chemistry than I thought they would.

I mean, it's still Emilia Clarke, but Kit has improved so much since S1 and there's actually some nuance to the scenes between them.

I just hope they don't have cave sex.

[Bernanke]

Oh, and Jaime should have died there.

[phonics]

I like Mayor Carchetti and all but he's now covering his terrible accent by talking like Batman at all times.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The convenient convincing cave paintings were quite lol. Did Davos paint them himself?

[Bernanke]

The convenient convincing cave paintings were quite lol. Did Davos paint them himself?

"And here, my queen, we have the King in the North giving it to the Mother of Dragons."

[Browning]

Jaime absolutely couldn't die there. They're only just hammering home the fact he's not a cunt like Cersei (granted we've known that for ages, but they're making it more and more obvious) and he only just found out Tyrion was innocent all along. Too much story would have died with him, and he needs to be involved in Cersei's death (or vice versa.... but most likely that way round).

Granted he was more likely than Dany, though it would have been brilliant if she died the first time she actually did anything.

[Mazuuurk]

Denaerys is trying her best in this season to seem a little more manic, I reckon, but it's not coming through at all.

To be honest, Emilia Clarke is a little too girlish-cutsey-looking to pull off anything serious. Even her voice is a little too squeeky. Everytime I see her I just sort of feel like she's really really misplaced, and look much more like she should be in a RomCom instead.

[Ian]

Her looks aren't the issue. She just can't act.


he needs to be involved in Cersei's death (or vice versa.... but most likely that way round).

Presumably if he does Cersei in once she's gone full mental she goes exactly the same way as Aerys, with a sword through her back.

[Browning]

It's either gonna be that or hands (hand?) round the throat as per the prophecy.

[Disco]

Her looks aren't the issue. She just can't act.



Presumably if he does Cersei in once she's gone full mental she goes exactly the same way as Aerys, with a sword through her back.

The symmetry of that would be particularly pleasing, did they film his previous King knobbling in the series?

[Ian]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qsQUroPq3g

This here (skip to about 28 seconds in if you want to get right to it) seems to be it.

But yes, it would be rather fitting. Though I dunno what could drive Cersei further than she's already gone. The kids are all gone, her potentially losing the Iron Throne seems almost tame after that.

[Disco]

It looks like the Trudge of Bran is about as compelling in the series as it is in the books.

[ItalAussie]

It's not like Jaime's armour is superglued to his body. The first two minutes of the next episode will be him dramatically struggling out of his armour (which sinks to the bottom, symbolically) and then surfacing to get captured.

The real question is whether Bronn's still alive. Surfacing to see a dead Bronn would be a classic GoT bait-and-switch. I want him alive though, because we need some people who can still smirk in the background of boring people having serious discussions.

[Jimmy Floyd]

His golden hand (which Cersei had made for him) sinking to the bottom is the symbolic bit. Henceforth he'll do a face turn of some sort.

[Mazuuurk]

Was that visible? I just sort of saw the whole of him sinking.

By the way, Bronn was also sinking, wasn't he (assuming that was Bronn and not that Tarly kid)? Because that seems a little odd, given Bronn doesn't wear chainmail does he? Being a ninja fighter and all.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Not yet, but given gold is the heaviest substance going you'd think it will need to take a stroll.

[Lewis]

He dropped it all during the battle.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I mean Jaime's gold hand. I'm pretty sure they did a Chekhov's gun of him putting it on a few episodes ago as well.

[Lofty]

Saw some daft theory about how one of the three figures in the cave painting had its sword in the left hand instead of the right so that's why Jamie will live...

[Lewis]

I mean Jaime's gold hand. I'm pretty sure they did a Chekhov's gun of him putting it on a few episodes ago as well.

Right. He can't turn anyway. Not yet. They will swap him for their prisoners and then he will turn at the end when he kills Cersei (and probably himself).

[John]

Saw some daft theory about how one of the three figures in the cave painting had its sword in the left hand instead of the right so that's why Jamie will live...

That's exactly the sort of foreshadowing they would do. When they did an overhead shot of the map Cersei was having painted in her courtyard she was standing on 'The Neck' and he was standing on 'The Fingers', apparently, which is about as clumsy as things can possibly get.

[Bernanke]

That's exactly the sort of foreshadowing they would do. When they did an overhead shot of the map Cersei was having painted in her courtyard she was standing on 'The Neck' and he was standing on 'The Fingers', apparently, which is about as clumsy as things can possibly get.

http://i.imgur.com/TKqLPFC.png

Christ. :face:

[Jimmy Floyd]

They're only one more explosion away from getting Michael Bay in to direct an episode.

[Adramelch]

Saw some daft theory about how one of the three figures in the cave painting had its sword in the left hand instead of the right so that's why Jamie will live...

It's actually 1 that holds it on the left hand, 1 on the right and 1 holds a spear (and appears to be left-handed as well). Seems more than a bit far-fetched, albeit the thing with Cersei and the map is the king of them all.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Drogon for the chop?

Khal Drogoesque leading the Dothraki and getting a shoulder injury. Plus Qyburn loves some poison.

Then you've got the two left for Jon and Dany.

[ItalAussie]

Aren't there prophecies relating to all three dragons?

[John]

Probably, but they've already managed to muddy the waters on the 'Prince who was Promised' with three lines of dialogue so if they decide one of the dragons copping it will make for a good scene I'm sure they'll figure a way around whatever they've said before.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I believe it's only been mentioned in the books.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Prophecies are an absolutely shite narrative device anyway. Don't tell me what's going to happen because some magic wanker said so. The book is packed full of the things.

[Bernanke]

Eh, I liked the tower Dany went into in the book. The show ruined it completely though.

[John]

Prophecies are, without exception, just the writer being smug.

[Adramelch]

Decent episode but a bit of a let down after the last one. Especially the part of Jamie and Bronn making it back to King's Landing. You'd think Dany and the Dothraki would be looking for them.

That said, it had one of my favourite lines of the whole show, delivered by none other than Don Davos to Gendry: "Wasn’t sure I’d find you. Thought you might still be rowing." Brilliant :D

[Lewis]

This series makes you wonder what they had been playing at with the previous series' pacing. Also lol at Gilly potentially ending the world.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Not sure about how they've turned Davos into a fan service rent-a-quote. He used to be hard as nails.

[John]

Yeah, I winced when he said that. It's meta nonsense on a series that really can't afford to get into acknowledging the meta.

[Disco]

This series makes you wonder what they had been playing at with the previous series' pacing. Also lol at Gilly potentially ending the world.

Adhering to the pacing of the books I would think.

[Jimmy Floyd]

If they did that, then Season 6 would just have been a single take of Daenerys yawning for ten hours.

[Disco]

Or of whatever plot outline he gave them.

[Townsend]

Why don't you fuck off John you boring, boring wankface cuntchops.

[Browning]

That girl hanging around with Sam just casually revealing that Jon Snow probably has a better claim to the throne than Dany was fucking annoying.

Alright episode but nothing great. Jaime just casually being back in King's landing was fucking stupid.

[John]

She wasn't revealing anything we didn't already know, that scene was just there for the momentary tension provided by the prospect of Sam finding out and letting Jon know he's a Targaryen, and possibly as a little refresher for Jon being mates with the dragon.

What they could have been doing with a refresher for is that scroll Littlefinger brought out of storage. It was the one Cersei had Sansa write back in season two or something.

[SvN]

She revealed that Jon wasn't a bastard, which is big news. We didn't know prior to that scene.

[John]

I thought that was implied heavily enough by the Tower of Joy scenes to not need revealing, but I suppose it's never been explicitly stated before. It wasn't explicitly stated there either, by the way, since the name of his new bride wasn't mentioned.

[SvN]

I might have missed something, but I didn't get any sort of implication that Rhaegar and Lyanna were married before that scene. Just that Jon was their son.

[John]

The best swordsman in the world stationed outside strongly suggested she was more than a sidepiece.

There's definitely been a scene in the past with someone talking about how the story Robert swore by of Rhaegar kidnapping Lyanna wasn't true too. Might have been Varys or Littlefinger and I'm sure the notion that they were married was floated in that scene.

It could have been back in season one, so it was long before there was any hint that Ned had been bullshitting about Jon's parentage so it didn't have the same reach.

[GS]

Correct. The accepted history is that Lyanna Stark was abducted and raped (and killed) by Rhaegar Targaryen. What has been revealed so far in the show is that Jon is her son, but there's never been any confirmation that Rhaegar is the father. He obviously is, given the Tower of Joy was being defended by the Kingsguard (Arthur Dayne, specifically). Lyanna also asks Ned to protect Jon because "Robert will kill him", so again that heavily implies it given he made it his life's mission to kill all Targaryens in retribution for what he believes they did to Lyanna.

The only person (alive) who knows that Jon isn't Ned's son is Bran. Possibly Howland Reed, but he hasn't appeared in the present yet. Even if Sam knew that Rhaegar Targaryen had annulled his marriage to Elia and married Lyanna, it doesn't mean anything to him. He doesn't know that Jon is really Lyanna's son, or that there's even a child involved.

It obviously hints heavily to the viewer that Jon is not only Rhaegar's son, he's legitimate and therefore the rightful King of the Seven Kingdoms.

[Disco]

Do you do cosplay as well?

[GS]

I've read the books.

[Byron]

That was a decent enough episode, although we are surely now at the point where every episode races forward at a million miles an hour.

[John]

There's been nothing so far to justify the reduced episode count, so the next two weeks will presumably be wall to wall CGI spectacle.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The pace is almost too fast now. Davos has done about five thousand miles in that episode, most of it impersonating Sean Connery in The Untouchables.

I did lol at O'Finger donning little bitch Arya.

Dickon Tarly was the reddest, shirtiest redshirt in the history of the moving picture.

[John]

He's a fucking mystery. Why introduce a new character like that at this stage of the story if he's going to have absolutely no impact. He saved Jamie from a swording, great, but would that scene have been any different if an extra had been the one to knife that Dothraki bloke?

It's like they're so used to having eleventy thousand characters that they can't cope with the relatively lean cast they have now.

[Adramelch]

He's a fucking mystery. Why introduce a new character like that at this stage of the story if he's going to have absolutely no impact. He saved Jamie from a swording, great, but would that scene have been any different if an extra had been the one to knife that Dothraki bloke?

It's like they're so used to having eleventy thousand characters that they can't cope with the relatively lean cast they have now.

I think his purpose was to be mildly likeable to the audience so him getting burned raises doubts about Daenerys or sth.

[John]

Maybe I'm just reading more into this stuff than most, but I thought they had that well covered with Tyrion looking shit scared of the power he'd just unleashed on his homeland and the five minutes of conversation he had with Varys about Daenerys possibly being a bit mad.

[Alex]

Fucking Jon Snow and his Westerosi version of the Expendables off on a little jaunt out beyond the wall. :cool:

I feel like the Northern lords doing a complete 180, from believing in Jon so much that they ignored all accepted custom and proclaimed a bastard King in the North to completely losing all faith in him because he's gone down south for a bit, all in the space of about a month, is ridiculous as well. It just strikes me as a lazily written plot to give Littlefinger (who really needs to be dead before the season is out) some sort of continued relevance.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

Varys doesn't sound totally convinced either.

[Mazuuurk]

Yeah alright. Bit boring. Don't get the point of Gendry at all, but I suppose there must be some.

A bit like in the books when:
Martins randomly introduces some other "whoops there were more than one!" Targaryen (supposedly) lad who is actually the one who starts invading Westeros way before Denaerys gets there.


Anyway, I reckon the reason the pacing feels so off is that it's so uneven. You'll have a slow, sort of pointless long exchange with the Maesters, then all of a sudden jump to the wall and The Hound shows up at Eastwatch out of nowhere and etc etc.

I was thinking, essentially all the cool "fighting" characters that remain now, save for Bronn (ok maybe big and little lady as well), all went together there beyond the wall then. Bit of an all star team really.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

Wasn't expecting the potential armistice to be somewhere they'd go.

[John]

I'd forgotten about Tormund asking about 'the big woman' and looking a bit put out when she wasn't there. That actor is a genius.

[Alex]

Wasn't expecting the potential armistice to be somewhere they'd go.

Me neither actually. I definitely thought "burn Cersei alive, then sort the army of the dead out" was going to be the only route they would go down.

[Mazuuurk]

Maybe I'm just reading more into this stuff than most, but I thought they had that well covered with Tyrion looking shit scared of the power he'd just unleashed on his homeland and the five minutes of conversation he had with Varys about Daenerys possibly being a bit mad.

Yeah agreed, it was already crystal clear.


Fucking Jon Snow and his Westerosi version of the Expendables off on a little jaunt out beyond the wall. :cool:

I feel like the Northern lords doing a complete 180, from believing in Jon so much that they ignored all accepted custom and proclaimed a bastard King in the North to completely losing all faith in him because he's gone down south for a bit, all in the space of about a month, is ridiculous as well. It just strikes me as a lazily written plot to give Littlefinger (who really needs to be dead before the season is out) some sort of continued relevance.

Also agreed, feels fucking stupid. It feels like they can't ever decide if they want Glover et al to be "hard fuckers from the north" who only respect strength or poncey pompous twats who suddenly get precious about anything.

[Alex]

Also agreed, feels fucking stupid. It feels like they can't ever decide if they want Glover et al to be "hard fuckers from the north" who only respect strength or poncey pompous twats who suddenly get precious about anything.

Exactly. "The North Remembers", but apparently not more than a few weeks back when they pledged undying allegiance to the bloke.

[GS]

Maybe I'm just reading more into this stuff than most, but I thought they had that well covered with Tyrion looking shit scared of the power he'd just unleashed on his homeland and the five minutes of conversation he had with Varys about Daenerys possibly being a bit mad.

He wasn't really introduced, as such. He's been an off-screen character for some time, and he turned up last series when Sam returned to Horn Hill. His death covers the above, but it's also killed off the only male heir to House Tarly other than Sam - I suspect that will have something to do with it.


Fucking Jon Snow and his Westerosi version of the Expendables off on a little jaunt out beyond the wall. :cool:

I feel like the Northern lords doing a complete 180, from believing in Jon so much that they ignored all accepted custom and proclaimed a bastard King in the North to completely losing all faith in him because he's gone down south for a bit, all in the space of about a month, is ridiculous as well. It just strikes me as a lazily written plot to give Littlefinger (who really needs to be dead before the season is out) some sort of continued relevance.

My assumption is that we'll see it's Littlefinger agitating behind the scenes to undermine Jon. He benefits from Sansa as Lady of Winterfell, and reliant on the Knights of the Vale (which he controls). Presumably the thought would go that he could marry her so she can consolidate her position, and he thus controls the North and the Vale.

[Adramelch]

Maybe I'm just reading more into this stuff than most, but I thought they had that well covered with Tyrion looking shit scared of the power he'd just unleashed on his homeland and the five minutes of conversation he had with Varys about Daenerys possibly being a bit mad.

It felt that her burning the young 'un made it even worse in Tyrion's mind. You could also argue that it's to show that Sam is now the only male Tarly around? It's all a bit pointless but I'd argue it's just there to add a bit extra flavour from a filmmaking perspective or someshit like that.

[Alex]

My assumption is that we'll see it's Littlefinger agitating behind the scenes to undermine Jon. He benefits from Sansa as Lady of Winterfell, and reliant on the Knights of the Vale (which he controls). Presumably the thought would go that he could marry her so she can consolidate her position, and he thus controls the North and the Vale.

I agree that that's exactly what will happen (although I don't think he'll ultimately have any success), I just can't really be arsed with it at this late point in the game. The whole "King in the North 2.0" scene at the end of the last season felt like a quite definitive end to all the faffing about over who controls the north. That made me happy.

[GS]

I agree that that's exactly what will happen (although I don't think he'll ultimately have any success), I just can't really be arsed with it at this late point in the game. The whole "King in the North 2.0" scene at the end of the last season felt like a quite definitive end to all the faffing about over who controls the north. That made me happy.

I don't disagree. The King in the North scene last season was just great.

My suspicion is that:

Sansa will have a conflict in her head between Littlefinger and Arya (the latter has him sussed out). In the end, she'll side with Arya and Littlefinger will probably be killed (beheading, most likely). It'll be Sansa's redemption and proof she's not the soft touch she was (as you can see from the raven's message from series one that turned up), and revenge for marrying her off to Ramsey Bolton. It'll also keep the Knights of the Vale on side, even if Baelish gets murdered.

Then you have them all united behind House Stark.

[Mazuuurk]

That seems a little too likeable an outcome though, GS.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I want O'Finger and Varys to survive and unite to don all the dull twats at the end.

[Ian]

Is anybody ever going to just say to Dragonwoman "No, love, you're fucking a fucking dreadful tyrant as well you awful bitch"? I've gone from just being bored by Clarke to actively hating the character now as well. I really, really, really hope (against hope) she dies.

Also I get, to an extent, why they're doing it but the state of everybody suddenly teleporting about Westeros when it it was previously a three episode job to have somebody walk to the wardrobe to fetch their pants is just lol.

[phonics]

I would watch the Fantasy & Furious series based around Tormund and Big Woman in the role of Vin Diesel and Michelle Rodriguez, for sure.

Tyrion = Ludacris
Bronn = Tyrese
Gendry = Han

P.S. That whole Gendry is the lost son of Robert Baratheon storyline just got dropped in there a bit quick, no?

[The Merse]

The line from Samwells missus said it all for me. Fuck Sansa's Queen of the North routine serving Littlefingers narrative - it feeds Jon's.

Combo of Brann x Gilly making it clear Jon is true king of the Seven Kingdoms and more Targaeryan than Stark. Sansa's endgame is as Queen of the North, Jon as king, Dany... Er... Ho... Hum........ Something... Maybe not.

[Jimmy Floyd]

There's only one thing all the hints are leading towards and that's that Snow's sausage is going to be entering the dragon's cave any time now.

[ItalAussie]

The thing that annoys me is that Varys never put the pieces together regarding Jon's parentage.

Rhaegar took enough care to get his marriage annulled, and it was recorded somewhere in writing. Everyone knew Rhaegar was in love with Lyanna. The honourable Ned Stark - who would never cheat on his wife - comes home with a bastard child. It's not exactly the Times Cryptic.

I can understand nobody else putting it together, but Varys is supposed to know when things are going on.

[Lewis]

Maybe he does know and thought it would just cause aggro, which it would have done. His I SERVE THE REALM speech would feed into that.

[John]

I'm absolutely certain there was a scene in the early going in which someone cast doubt on the accepted story of Rhaegar and Lyanna, so I reckon he does know at least part of the real story.

Having thought about it, the most damning evidence for Daenerys being a headcase in that episode was the scene where she tells Jon the dragons are her children. Think about all the people you know who call themselves 'mummy' to their pets, and I bet you wouldn't want any one of them within a hundred miles of power.

[Jimmy Floyd]

R+L=J is the weakest bit of the plot. It's been blatantly obvious from about episode 2, when Sean Bean and King Tesco were chatting about it over breakfast.

The only interesting question it raises is whether GRRM and co will decide incest between two main characters is A Good Thing. Cersei and Jaime are at least kind of villains.

The 'Lord of Light' is currently looking to be the best disguised deus ex machina of all time.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Davos is owning this season.

[SvN]

Next episode has leaked. Let's not discuss in here until after the official air date, though.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

Is it on BtN?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Not yet but staff should allow it.

They don't let hacks on (draws too much attention onto a closed site) but this was aired early on HBO Spain and Nordic.

[SvN]

I've told the wife I'll wait for her to get home before I watch it :moop:

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Apparently it's a fucking cracker of an episode.

[Cheddar]

I seen that it had leaked and couldn't help myself. Can confirm it was brilliant episode.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

Can anyone help me with a source?

[ItalAussie]

It's quite an episode.

[Mazuuurk]

Is this one also shit quality as the last leaked one, or good?

If good :drool:

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I've heard it's good but not great.

There's a 1080p, 1.9gb file up on BTN but the video quality is a little poorer than you'd think (because of the source) and the audio pitch is a little high.

Here are some screenshots:

http://imgbox.com/ZKnspR9t

I'll be waiting tbh, audio issues always annoy the fuck out of me.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

I've just watched one that didn't have any audio issues as far as I can tell.

[SvN]

Just watched it and the one I had was barely any different from a regular download.

[Adramelch]

Watched the same one as Alan (I assume given he gave me the link) and it's pretty good. No audio issues whatsoever. The image felt just a notch worse than a regular, but the difference was small, so it might as well be confirmation bias.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

Anyone else is welcome. I know a few folk who've already had things spoiled for them when not even looking for anything to do with Game of Thrones.

[Adamski]

I'll take it too cheers.

[Mazuuurk]

Anyone else is welcome. I know a few folk who've already had things spoiled for them when not even looking for anything to do with Game of Thrones.

Go on then :thbup:

[Lewis]

Anyone else is welcome. I know a few folk who've already had things spoiled for them when not even looking for anything to do with Game of Thrones.

YouTube has done it to me a few times shoving new/popular uploads onto the front page.

[Browning]

If there's a risk of spoilers I'll take the link too if possible. Was going to wait but fuck it.

[Spikey M]

What exactly did the scroll say? I paused it but could only pick out the words on the middle of the scroll.

[Spikey M]

Never mind, found it.

https://twitter.com/thronesfacts/status/896921564632842243

[Browning]

Cheers for the link guys.

The two weeks wait after this is going to be tough I feel.

[nsd]

Cheers for the link guys.

The two weeks wait after this is going to be tough I feel.

I'm almost certain it'll leak. HBO should just do the decent thing and release it.

[Lofty]

You're best off watching it now because there will definitely be arseholes plastering spoilers all over the shop in the run up to the official air date.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I saw a spoiler for it (albeit something you don't have to be a genius to have anticipated) the other day while I was on Youtube looking at cricket stuff. There's no escape.

[Mazuuurk]

This is just my reaction, no episode content, but I'll spoiler it anyway.

Oh fucking my :happycry:

[Adramelch]

My spoiler actually contains spoilers so yeah, proceed with caution.

It was a great episode no doubt but leaves so many questions in regards to the logic of things. The whole "ice is breaking" thing was a bit too much, but I can get past that as a way to get to the end game. Same with the whole time thing between them getting caught out and Daenerys coming to the rescue. But there's so many minor (or not) things that raise questions. Wouldn't it make sense that the dragons attempt to actually breath fire on the night king himself? Wouldn't it also make sense that the javelin gold medalist actually shoots at Drogon who's standing still instead of the ones that are flying? Did he just wanna flex his skills?

Also Arya's scenes were a bit too extreme, weren't they?

Again though, a very enjoyable hour of television, which definitely got me hyped for what's to come.

[Browning]

Pretty much agree with what you've said Adra, although I have a bigger problem with the overall plan, which I guess I can post spoiler free because I was saying this before watching the leaked one....

Why are they doing this? Why are they trying to convince Cersei now that all she has to offer is some gold? They've wiped her army out, I don't see what she's bringing to the table. If you want/need the gold so badly just go and fucking take it and then worry about the walkers afterwards.

[Adramelch]

I would assume that wildfire probably comes into play there? Also a bit of Tyrion struggling with the whole burning people thing and trying to "divert attention"? I don't know.

[John]

Be very careful with the spoilers. Anyone posting anything that spoils the episode before the actual air time will be subject to a ban, the length of which will be determined by however I feel at the time.

[Mazuuurk]

Can we post spoilers in Spoiler tags, John?

[Spikey M]

Just wait for the next episode to come out you spastics.

[John]

Can we post spoilers in Spoiler tags, John?

Of course. That's what they're there for.

[Mazuuurk]

Of course. That's what they're there for.

Yeah sure, just wanted to make sure since we're all a bit tense about it all here.

[John]

It was entertaining enough and the big moment with the dragon going down was very well done, but there were so many things in that episode which were poorly handled.

I actually lolled when Sansa found Arya's bag of pound shop halloween masks, for a start. If all she's doing is sticking on a mask then how does she make herself look six feet tall, or change her voice, or suddenly put on sixty pounds of muscle? If there's magic doing that stuff then why does she need rubber masks? I know that they had to have Sansa find something about the Faceless God to catalyse the scene, but they've created more problems than they had to with that. The scene that followed had Arya going well off the reservation, but it did make me wish they hadn't established so clearly that people had to die before their faces could be worn. If it turned out that Arya had been playing Littlefinger in the scene preceding that one and manipulated her into sending Brienne away it would have redeemed the whole shitshow. As it is, they can't play that card without having killed Littlefinger off screen, and that would be a disgrace in itself.

The actual battle against the dead was also very badly staged. So many close up shots of people thrusting their weapons off screen. I had another lol when that redshirt who went over the little cliff suddenly got a slow motion death scored to mournful strings, as though he'd been around for three seasons of a more sentimental show. I don't think anyone since Ned Bean has had special treatment on the soundtrack when they've copped it.

She's always been poor, but this is the first time Emilia Clarke being unable to act has been a real obstacle for me. She was a completely blank slate when the dragon was going down, then again on the boat afterwards when Jon woke up. Just affectless garbage from her. They're clearly going to fuck by the way, so the internet might as well dub her 'Snowblower' right now.

The start of the expedition beyond the wall was brilliant though. Everything involving Tormund was absolute gold, as alwasy, and the fifteen seconds spent on The Hound and Tormund going back and forth probably the best fifteen seconds of the episode.

[Mazuuurk]

My spoiler actually contains spoilers so yeah, proceed with caution.

It was a great episode no doubt but leaves so many questions in regards to the logic of things. The whole "ice is breaking" thing was a bit too much, but I can get past that as a way to get to the end game. Same with the whole time thing between them getting caught out and Daenerys coming to the rescue. But there's so many minor (or not) things that raise questions. Wouldn't it make sense that the dragons attempt to actually breath fire on the night king himself? Wouldn't it also make sense that the javelin gold medalist actually shoots at Drogon who's standing still instead of the ones that are flying? Did he just wanna flex his skills?

Also Arya's scenes were a bit too extreme, weren't they?

Again though, a very enjoyable hour of television, which definitely got me hyped for what's to come.

SPOILERS WITHIN:


I reckon he was aiming for Drogon first because they kept zooming in on him, but then Viserys or whatever it's called sort of turned around towards him, and he aimed for that. I also don't think Denearys was really that aware of what was going on or who or what the Night king was.

And besides, if you remember in last season there was a bunch of fire outside the house of the Children of the Forest or some such, which he promptly extinguished by walking through it (he walked through fire in this episode as well), so you sort of suppose he's powerful enough to handle a bit of fire.

I do think Arya is being a bit of a twat as well, but really don't quite get what is going on in Winterfell. It just seems a little pointless compared to the rest of the Plot at the moment. Sansa is like meant to be Clever now, but Littlefinger is clearly playing everyone there. Is Arya just being a bit petty and daft, or is she also being clever? I don't understand why Sansa sent Brienne away when Littlefinger said she should stay around (and Sansa seemed to listen), so she must have some sort of idea about that as well. Whenever Littlefinger is scheming they always make it very clear by zooming in on his smug face, but Sansa just sits and seems a bit clueless most of the time.

By the way, I reckon this season will end with the Night kind blowing that horn (or whatever the Series equivalent is, his magic maybe) which will bring down the wall..

[Mazuuurk]

My spoiler actually contains spoilers so yeah, proceed with caution.

It was a great episode no doubt but leaves so many questions in regards to the logic of things. The whole "ice is breaking" thing was a bit too much, but I can get past that as a way to get to the end game. Same with the whole time thing between them getting caught out and Daenerys coming to the rescue. But there's so many minor (or not) things that raise questions. Wouldn't it make sense that the dragons attempt to actually breath fire on the night king himself? Wouldn't it also make sense that the javelin gold medalist actually shoots at Drogon who's standing still instead of the ones that are flying? Did he just wanna flex his skills?

Also Arya's scenes were a bit too extreme, weren't they?

Again though, a very enjoyable hour of television, which definitely got me hyped for what's to come.

SPOILERS WITHIN:


I reckon he was aiming for Drogon first because they kept zooming in on him, but then Viserys or whatever it's called sort of turned around towards him, and he aimed for that. I also don't think Denearys was really that aware of what was going on or who or what the Night king was.

And besides, if you remember in last season there was a bunch of fire outside the house of the Children of the Forest or some such, which he promptly extinguished by walking through it (he walked through fire in this episode as well), so you sort of suppose he's powerful enough to handle a bit of fire.

I do think Arya is being a bit of a twat as well, but really don't quite get what is going on in Winterfell. It just seems a little pointless compared to the rest of the Plot at the moment. Sansa is like meant to be Clever now, but Littlefinger is clearly playing everyone there. Is Arya just being a bit petty and daft, or is she also being clever? I don't understand why Sansa sent Brienne away when Littlefinger said she should stay around (and Sansa seemed to listen), so she must have some sort of idea about that as well. Whenever Littlefinger is scheming they always make it very clear by zooming in on his smug face, but Sansa just sits and seems a bit clueless most of the time.

By the way, I reckon this season will end with the Night kind blowing that horn (or whatever the Series equivalent is, his magic maybe) which will bring down the wall..

[randomlegend]

SPOILERS EVERYWHERE


The Hound and Tormund going back and forth probably the best fifteen seconds of the episode.

Think it was my favourite 15 seconds of the whole fucking show :drool:

Yeah the wanky rubber masks were daft, but it's about 500 miles from the daftest thing in the show so whatever. It's just a fantasy program and entertainment at the end of the day, there's always going to be bits to roll your eyes at.

On Sansa sending Brienne away; I presumed the point there was that Littlefinger said if either tried to fuck with the other then she'd have to intervene, so sending her away signalled Sansa is planning on doing over Arya.

[Adramelch]

They had shown the whole mask/face thingy during her training already had they not?

[Mazuuurk]

Better be another leak this week :moop:

[Lewis]

I watched it in the week, but the zombie army seem somewhat less fearsome if five blokes (albeit good ones) can hold off and kill hundreds of them. Throw some cavalry and some dragons in and they could probably have just waited for them to invade and sent them packing in an afternoon.

[Mazuuurk]

Well I suppose the problem with the Zombie army is it can replenish pretty quickly, even on the battlefield maybe (?).

[GS]

There's a difference between the White Walkers and the 'zombie army', too. The latter are reanimated corpses, so you can't actually kill them unless you burn them. It means every time you 'kill' one, they can be revived and join the ranks again. Plus any of yours that you lose will rise to fight you too. So short of burning them all, it's basically an army that you can't beat.

The White Walkers are presumably the original ones who were created by the Children of the Forest in the Age of Heroes. Ergo you'd think the entire thing is going to come down to trying to kill them, as it would seem they not only control the entire army but that its very existence is dependent on them.

[Mazuuurk]

Can't the Wraiths be killed with Valyrian steel and Dragonglass though?

Or is that just the White walkers?

[Lewis]

The better bet would have been to torch the Iron Fleet, invade literally wherever, and then saunter over to the capital. Had they done that would't literally everybody have been on side other than the Lannisters and the mooks within the city walls? Regardless of how long it takes the capital to give in/starve to death, the rest of the country could set about preparing for the White Walkers and their drones.

[GS]

Can't the Wraiths be killed with Valyrian steel and Dragonglass though?

Or is that just the White walkers?

That's just the White Walkers. It knocks down a wight etc., but even if you hack a limb off it'll still function separately (like that time a wight attacked Lord Commander Mormont in Castle Black - Jon hacked one of its arms off and it was still functioning). The only way to properly kill it (again) is to burn it.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The better bet would have been to torch the Iron Fleet, invade literally wherever, and then saunter over to the capital. Had they done that would't literally everybody have been on side other than the Lannisters and the mooks within the city walls? Regardless of how long it takes the capital to give in/starve to death, the rest of the country could set about preparing for the White Walkers and their drones.

The Iron Fleet can both teleport and employ some sort of invisibility cloak, so that wasn't an option.

[Lewis]

The dragons that got from Dragonstone to Scotland in an afternoon (the less said about the raven the better) surely trump that.

[GS]

I think you have to make an assumption that these things are truncated somewhat. We don't need to wait three episodes for things to happen just so that there appears to have been the passage of time.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Yeah but you have to then get the pacing right, which they don't.

[John]

The dragons that got from Dragonstone to Scotland in an afternoon (the less said about the raven the better) surely trump that.

The dragons are fictional so they can fly as fast as they want without smashing suspension of disbelief.

Haile Gendryselassie getting back to Eastwatch and getting a raven to Daenerys was the much bigger problem.

[Alex]

Haile Gendryselassie

:D

Excellent work, top marks for that.

[phonics]

I've been dining out on Ser Friendzone for years and will be stealing that one too.

[GS]

Yeah but you have to then get the pacing right, which they don't.

Perhaps, but I think this was inevitable once the plots converged. Previously, you had about eight different locations where things were happening quite independently of each other, so you would drop off to other characters and then come back to a particular narrative. There's basically one plot now, and that has to lead to truncating the passage of time / pacing it differently otherwise nothing is going to happen for half the episode.

It's no different to something like the march of the Uruk-Hai to Helms Deep or the Ride of the Rohirrim to Minas Tirith in LOTR.

[Lewis]

Anyway, Beric 'The Don' Dondarrion was the real star of that episode. I would rather they offed Jon Snow than him.

[Cord]

I don't consider myself a great intellect, but I would think even I, when faced with the task of going into a frozen wilderness to capture a undead horror alive, would come up with a better plan than - walk around plain as day until you stumble into said nightmarish abomination- put a bag on its head - ?????.

Some cool bits aside (flaming sword ftw), I found that a bit hollow. It's was largely stupid, for a start, and that whole Arya/Sansa feud was weird and contrived. Yet more scenes of characters telling Dragon Woman how wonderful she is, which surely, surely must lead to her going batshit soon.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I thought it was largely a load of old wank and the best actor in it was the Night's King, who is Marlo Stanfield level evil-cool (although he should have hired Steve Backley to help out by the looks of things).

I like how he has loads of identical redshirt lieutenants who look like frozen ageing rockers as well.

Whatever Finger is up to is a crock of shite, he's lost his touch.

[Ian]

I wonder if, now they have a dragon, the undead lads are going to fucking do something?

[Jimmy Floyd]

The Night's King must be able to do a fiendish sudoku in a matter of seconds by now.

'We wait here.'
'Until when?'
'Until the plot requires us.'

[Raoul Duke]

Is the dragon how they'll get through the wall? Assuming it can still breathe fire...

[GS]

It'll breathe ice or cold, presumably.

In the books, there was the Horn of Winter (or the Horn of Joramun) which Mance Rayder spent years trying to find and which they believed could bring down the wall. I don't think it's been specifically mentioned in the TV series, mind you. Sam does find a horn buried in a Night's Watch cloak in one of the earlier series, but I don't recall them making anything of it at the time.

[Ian]

Dragon must be what's bringing down the wall, otherwise they should be in King's Landing by now getting the AC installed.

[GS]

The Wall is supposed to have magic woven into it to stop the dead from passing, so presumably there'll be something more to it. The cover of the sixth book has a horn on the front cover, too.

[John]

There's no internal logic to why they haven't breezed through the wall yet, it's just plot mechanics holding them back.

They've been a couple of hundred yards away from the wall as early as the second season so there's no excuse for them not to have had a pop yet other than that the writers aren't ready for them to do so.

It's long past time to stop pulling things out of the book that haven't appeared in the show to justify sloppy nonsense.

[Jimmy Floyd]

An undead got into Castle Black absolutely yonks ago, so unless that was the only one with the otherwise universal powers of teleportation, there's nothing stopping them.

I thought Hardhome was significantly nearer the wall than they seem to be now.

[GS]

He wasn't undead when he crossed the wall. He was only revived once he was in the cell.

Let's be honest, they can use "magic" or some other equivalent plot device as a 'deus ex machina' to solve any plot-related difficulty so this is all a bit angels on pinheads.

I have to say, I don't see much merit in trying to find problems. The transition to fantasy epic was inevitable once the White Walkers ceased to be a vague threat lurking somewhere beyond the wall and the dragons were fully grown.

[John]

Jon Snow and Beric Dondarrion are technically undead, and they've crossed it twice.

[GS]

One would assume that 'magic' could make the distinction between a hostile invasion and otherwise. Because it's magic and thus doesn't have to be wholly logical.

Or we'll find that the whole 'magic woven into its foundations' line isn't true and they'll simply scale it (or burrow through) ala the wildlings when Mance Rayder spent the raiding party ahead to attack Castle Black.

[John]

It would be a thick wizard who had the ability to cast a spell able to detect intentions then pointlessly limit it to only working on the undead.

[GS]

Well, it was specifically built to keep out the White Walkers so that would presumably be the argument.

The two that have got south were both wights rather than White Walkers. Benjen Stark said he couldn't go beyond the wall either, but then he was 'revived' by the Children of the Forest (like the White Walkers were originally) rather than being a wight. Perhaps that's what the argument will be.

Again, it's angels on pinheads. Just enjoy the programme for what it is.

[ItalAussie]

It would be a thick wizard who had the ability to cast a spell able to detect intentions then pointlessly limit it to only working on the undead.

Presumably undead raised by ice magic are different to revived by the fire god. Both Jon Snow and Beric Dondarrion seem to be "alive" rather than "undead", and certainly still have their original selves. With the ice guys, it's a lot less sure.

Magic, etc.

[ItalAussie]

The really obvious problem is why everyone's considering the Night's King to be a real threat. The Maesters had it right.

"Even if they are on the move, the magic wall has kept them out for thousands of years, and there's no compelling reason to imagine it's going to fail now."
"If it was going to keep working, this wouldn't be much of a series, would it?"
"He's right. Send out the ravens!"

[Raoul Duke]

Also - that's a point: WTF was the deal with Uncle Benjen? Literally just turns up to die idiotically :cab:

[Bernanke]

There have been a lot of dumb episodes in this show, but this one takes it as by far the most idiotic.

* The plan is dumb as shit.

* The timeline with Gendry, the raven, and Dany is dumb as shit.

* Winterfell is dumb as shit.

* Benjen ex machina is dumb as shit.

At least we got some good banter between a few of the better characters.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It's noticeable since the showrunners took over the plot how much a load of wank it is compared to when they were using book material.

The show also relied heavily on the machiavellian type characters - Varys, O'Finger, Tyrion, Cersei - and in this season it has reduced all of them (and everyone except Jon and Dany) to a useless shell.

The Hound is still a boss, albeit a stupid one throwing stones at wights. WHY DIDDY DO THAT as Fazeer Mohammed would say.

[GS]

Also - that's a point: WTF was the deal with Uncle Benjen? Literally just turns up to die idiotically :cab:

He gives Jon his horse so he can escape, ergo sacrificing himself for the greater good.

[Adamski]

Also - that's a point: WTF was the deal with Uncle Benjen? Literally just turns up to die idiotically :cab:

To tie up his storyline.

[Mazuuurk]

On the undead / wall thing. Maybe the wall is just meant to keep White Walkers out magically? Not the wights or Jon et al.

And the wights seemingly have to be fairly close to the White Walkers to be controlled by them (no real proof of that other than there seemingly being stray undead here and there being quite random).


Also Jon & Beric are not really undead, are they?
They were killed and revived, but are still (I assume) warm-blooded and, well, alive?


What's a bit more illogical is how that 3rd season (or whatever) wight came to life in Castle Black, when it seems a White Walker has to be around to raise them.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I think the blue eyes are a fairly clear televisual indicator of what is and isn't undead.

[Mazuuurk]

Nah-huh. Joffrey wasn't.

[phonics]

His heart was dead.

[Adamski]

The trailer seems to show the Unsullied and Dothraki arriving at Kings Landing. I thought Euron had barricaded the Unsullied at Casterly Rock?

[SvN]

Please spoiler stuff that's in the trailer, some of us purposely avoid them

[Mazuuurk]

The trailer seems to show the Unsullied and Dothraki arriving at Kings Landing. I thought Euron had barricaded the Unsullied at Casterly Rock?

He burnt their ships. Meaning they had to go by land, without supplies. But since Drogon roasted most of the Lannister army when they all came back from Highgarden, I would assume it wouldn't have been too hard to just march to Kings Landing

[Adamski]

Please spoiler stuff that's in the trailer, some of us purposely avoid them

Fuck off, that's not a thing.

[The Merse]

Jon Snow and Beric Dondarrion are technically undead, and they've crossed it twice.

If you're familiar with fantasy then resurrection and animation sit very separate.

The white walker horses are animated, Jon and Beric are resurrected. Ergo, then former are undead, the latter re-living.

[The Merse]

He gives Jon his horse so he can escape, ergo sacrificing himself for the greater good.

I think it's simpler than that. He is undead, but unlike those following the walkers, he has a singular consiousness continued from his live form. He recognises Jon as a living soul, so sacrificing his undead soul for jobs living soul is a fairly straightforward matter.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

Fuck off, that's not a thing.

I'd say it's courtesy though at this point. I've made an effort to avoid every episode preview so far and been all the better for it.

[-james-]

I'd have been fine with it if that episode had been five odd episodes. It was just an hour of explosions. Character development, man.

[Adramelch]

I think it's simpler than that. He is undead, but unlike those following the walkers, he has a singular consiousness continued from his live form. He recognises Jon as a living soul, so sacrificing his undead soul for jobs living soul is a fairly straightforward matter.

The real question is what stopped him from actually getting on the horse along with Jon? Plot armor being too heavy?

I'm also in the "no trailer" camp, in the sense that I don't feel like I gain anything by watching it.

[Lewis]

They would have chased the horse with them both on it.

[ItalAussie]

What's Benjen going to do? He can't cross the wall. May as well die valiantly to slow the zombies increase Jon's odds of getting away. He Hodor'd the situation.

That's the least odd thing about the episode, to be honest.

[Adramelch]

It is indeed.

[Ian]

I'd have been fine with it if that episode had been five odd episodes. It was just an hour of explosions. Character development, man.

It did feel like a waste when on their mooch about the North they threw together a series of good characters for brief conversations where previously we'd have had them together for a few episodes or more.

[Mazuuurk]

This is a decent read on the episode:

http://www.avclub.com/tvclub/game-changing-thrones-spectacle-buckles-under-pres-259689


The more I think about it, the more the makers of this show was dealt a difficult hand by George Martin:
Essentially the books, up until the end of "Dance with Dragons" which I guess is about the end of Season 4 or so, the books keep sort of keep diverging more and more in that they introduce more new characters than they kill off, and more new storylines than the close down (as talented a writer as George Martin is, it doesn't seem - a lot of the time - that while he has an idea of the ending he's not quite sure how to end up there).

Given that up until season 5 then, the writers of the show were following this ever increasing plot complexity of the books, and the suddenly given "freedom" to reach the end goal in 3 seasons, a goal which I think they got an idea of what it should be, but not quite of how they should get there, means they seems to have completely had to sacrifice character development and storylines just to move the whole beast forward quickly enough to reach the end game plotted out to them by Martin.


Because of this, it seems, the more important a character is to the overall plot (Jon, Denearys, Sansa, Arya, Cersei, etc) - the less development they seem to go through and the more insane choices they seem to make (to speed things up), whereas the supporting characters who don't have as much to do with the plot itself - Tormund, Hound, Davos, Tyrion - seem to shine more as their only inclusions seem to be more centered around their respective characters' quirkiness.

[phonics]

Absolutely loving reading all the 'everythings happening too quick!' complaints from the people who were complaining "nothings happening!" previously.

[GS]

The timelines work fine if you assume they didn't get too far north of the wall to begin with. The time it would have taken for the ice to refreeze on the lake etc.

Short of having captions to say "four days later", what can you do.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I think it's weak because it's down to 7 episodes. If they'd had another three to pad things out a bit and do a bit more character development it would have been fine. But presumably they've blown all the budget on CGI dragons and ice zombies.

I still don't know why Cersei is suddenly going to turn because she sees a zombie (which is the flimsy premise behind the mad, mad excursion beyond the wall). She has one of her own in armour.

[Mazuuurk]

It's probably also just a plot device to make sure they are all in the same place so that they can have an Epic stare-down scene.

What I reckon will happen is Cersei will lay a trap (duh) and it'll end up in some sort of end-game fight where a bunch of characters die off, and Clegane gets to show down with the Mountain, Cersei kills Tyrion, Jamie kills Cersei as the last straw, etc.

Wouldn't be completely surprised if Jon Snow dies either actually. He's sort of played his role now: he's shown Denearys the white walkers, he's "bent the knee", and he's her niece.

So essentially she can take up his "fighting the good fight" mantle, while the showrunners don't have to romanticize incest (like, for real). Melisandre always talked about this Azor Ahai and you always sort of assumed it was either Jon or Denearys. And given she controls the dragons, well.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Jon and 'Dany' (that was cringe) are getting sexy time, if not now, then next season. Literally no point in having them stare longingly at each other otherwise. And remember, kids, incest is good.

[Mazuuurk]

It would actually be a bit refreshing if they did, as it's more taboo than if they didn't and just sort of ended in a "Luke and Leia" type of platonic "Oops we're related!" relationship in the end, which to me seems like the far more American TV-maker route to go down.

[John]

It wouldn't be that refreshing. The big lad from The Chase is married to his cousin, so they've been beaten to that angle by a teatime quiz show.

[Jimmy Floyd]

An original TV writer would never write the Cersei/Jaime thing either, which explains why America is crap.

[phonics]

Never thought I'd hear incest described as 'refreshing'.

[Mazuuurk]

Well you all know what I mean. But whichever route they take it'll be seen as the "safe way out".

If they fuck, then ah fuck it, they're only distant relatives after all, the writers aren't bold enough.
If they don't, and one of them (Jon) dies, the ah fuck it, the writers didn't dare do incest porn, they aren't bold enough.

[Adramelch]

They are not distant relatives.

[Jimmy Floyd]

He's her nephew, right? I suppose neither of them know it.

[Spikey M]

Just watched Ep 6.

Why couldn't they just dragon the fuck out of the main 5 geezers?

[Spikey M]

he's shown Denearys the white walkers, he's "bent the knee", and he's her niece.

I know incest can make a family tree complex but...

[Mazuuurk]

:D

Yeah.

[Lewis]

That was good.

The Golden Company turning face early doors will clear up those loose ends, and then we've got four episodes of noncing about in the snow to look forward to. Great?

[Browning]

Yep enjoyed that. Not sure it was worth staying up for but still decent. The winterfell stuff was great.

[Mike]

I enjoyed this weeks too. Good end to the season but it's going to be a long wait now.

[GS]

That was belting.

[-james-]

Bran Stark's "I am the three eyed raven" makes me crease up every time. Fucking weirdo.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

I must say I properly shit myself at the end with Jaime and Cersei, thought she was going full mental.

Edit: as if she isn't off her rocker as it is

[Adramelch]

I saw that somewhere and it's pretty spot on:

http://i.imgur.com/GPXdC2e.png

"Illustration of the pacing of the series"

[Kikó]

About to watch the last episode. Holy shit balls.

[Mazuuurk]

I was waiting for whatever the fuck was meant to be happening in that show for ages. The last 15 or so minutes redeemed the whole thing, really.

Edit: OK then removing spoilers .

- Fucking ace seeing Littlefinger get shafted.
- Are they just going to gloss over the whole incest thing with Jon and Denaerys?
- I suspect she'll get pregnant now, since it's been brought up about 20 times in the past 2 or 3 episodes
-... And Jon and/or Denaerys will for sure die next season
- What was up with Tyrions brooding outside their door?
- Did Tormund die? Please please no :(
- How in the fuck are they going to get their shit together in time? Those wights do seem like slow marchers I suppose
- It's all set up for some sort of showdown between Denaerys & co and Cersei after all, but fuck knows when they will have time to sort something like that out.
- I'm sure Sam randomly brought the 4 books from Oldtown that will happen to contain some very crucial information
- That, no doubt, cuntface Bran couldv'e just said, at the end of the day

Also:
- Feel like I predicted most stuff that would happen here. Which is a bad thing.
- At least now I'm quite unclear what the fuck might happen

[GS]

I think we're okay not using spoilers now the episode has aired.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

It was all the better for being slower in that episode I thought.

[Mazuuurk]

The pace was alright in a way, yeah, after so much happening before.

It just sort of made me wonder constantly what would happen.

[Ian]

I fucking knew the Wall was coming down, but if Tormund's dead (he won't be) my toys are all going out of the pram. Beyond the ending I think the highlights of a good episode were Littlefinger's trial and the Jamie/ Cersei scene.

For a split second I thought she was actually giving the Mountain the nod.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

Tormund and Beric better not be dead. I can't see it, especially when one's been brought back from death 6 times.

[Lewis]

The pacing issue seems a bit stupid as well given that all the episodes have been longer to the tune of about two hours over the full series. So why not just add a bit more development (or distance scenes) and have the normal ten episodes? Is it because the cast are all on huge per episode contracts now?

[Adramelch]

The pacing issue seems a bit stupid as well given that all the episodes have been longer to the tune of about two hours over the full series. So why not just add a bit more development (or distance scenes) and have the normal ten episodes? Is it because the cast are all on huge per episode contracts now?

I read somewhere that we might even be getting 2-hour episodes next season.
Ian: Felt like she sort of gave him the nod or sth, which prompted Jamie's final outburst.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Here's to the Night's King inexicably having a four episode stopover in Moletown for another round of fiendish sudoku before he bothers to use the killer ice dragon again.

[John]

That was probably the most predictable episode they've ever made. It was all executed well enough, but the only thing in there that hasn't been obvious for somewhere between months and years was the Golden Company, and even then it was only really the identity of the army Cersei would buy off that was a mystery.

[Byron]

The best thing about that was Little O'Finger's trial. That and Ser Royce telling him to do one when he wanted to flee.

[ItalAussie]

Bran talking about how they're related over the top of the shipsex. :D

[ItalAussie]

Also, I legitimately thought for a moment that Cersei was going to order Jaime killed. That would have been one hell of an ending.

Similarly, I actually hope Tormund and Beric were killed at the wall. Sometimes main characters die, and they seem pretty expendable story-wise.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Beric spent most of the last episode saying THE LORD OF LIGHT BROUGHT ME BACK FOR A REASON so I imagine they'll be fine.

[Raoul Duke]

Cracking episode. Incest :drool:

I guess now that the politics is basically done they can croak all the Machiavellian types as they're no longer required.

[Ian]

Here's to the Night's King inexicably having a four episode stopover in Moletown for another round of fiendish sudoku before he bothers to use the killer ice dragon again.

Well he probably knows the ice dragon, while it will kill whichever one Aunty Dany has that isn't Drogon, will then get his head kicked in by Drogon so he'll be holding him back.

And he loves sudoku.

[Adramelch]

Also, I legitimately thought for a moment that Cersei was going to order Jaime killed. That would have been one hell of an ending.

Similarly, I actually hope Tormund and Beric were killed at the wall. Sometimes main characters die, and they seem pretty expendable story-wise.

They won't kill a fan favourite like Tormund without at least properly showing his death I don't think.

[ItalAussie]

They won't kill a fan favourite like Tormund without at least properly showing his death I don't think.

I don't think they should let fan sentiment stand in the way, to be honest. The series should pull the rug out from under us occasionally.

[Lewis]

Beric spent most of the last episode saying THE LORD OF LIGHT BROUGHT ME BACK FOR A REASON so I imagine they'll be fine.

How they bring all that stuff to a satisfactory conclusion strikes me as the biggest challenge in the next series.

[Adramelch]

I don't think they should let fan sentiment stand in the way, to be honest. The series should pull the rug out from under us occasionally.

They shouldn't but they will as they have proven for the last few seasons.

I don't mean they won't kill him though. I just expect them to make a (relatively) big deal about it in episode 1 of next season if that's the case.

[Jimmy Floyd]

First rule of TV: if you don't see them die, they're not dead.

Although I think the Blackfish (don) did suffer this fate.

[GS]

Stannis also.

[ItalAussie]

How they bring all that stuff to a satisfactory conclusion strikes me as the biggest challenge in the next series.

I assumed it was the whole "getting Jon Snow north of the wall" adventure.

I'm more interested in what roles the gods play. It's pretty clear that the Lord of Light is getting quite involved, and you'd have to think all this drowned god foreshadowing is going somewhere as well. Not to mention the prince who was promised/stallion who mounts the world/azor ahai stuff. If it's all just generic "chosen one" garbage, I'll be a bit disappointed. I kind of like the idea of the Lord of Light being a bad guy, although there's not a lot of time left to develop the idea.

[Lewis]

I mean that stuff. If the Lord of Light has only seen fit to bring two people back to life (along with cloaking devices and fanny magic), then that needs a proper explanation.

[ItalAussie]

I mean that stuff. If the Lord of Light has only seen fit to bring two people back to life (along with cloaking devices and fanny magic), then that needs a proper explanation.

I think it's possible that the Hound having an important role to play could be played as a solid reason for resurrecting Beric, if they wanted to do it that way. Having him convince the Hound that there's something worth fighting for, etc.

But yeah, it seems like there's a bigger arc that we haven't been really exposed to yet. Possibly if they explore the motivations and past of the Night's King (if he has motivation and past, which I hope he does)?

[ItalAussie]

SPOILER regarding Cersei's eventual fate:

The image:

https://i.redd.it/qs2sko2virzy.png

The meaning:

Jaime at the fingers. Cersei at the neck.

[Adamski]

Is it a spoiler if it was first discussed 6 weeks ago?

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

How safe is that to open? Just a theory or have you hacked HBO's script department?

[Ian]

As Adamski said it was openly posted in here weeks ago anyway, but it's a screenshot of an earlier episode and associated theory. And it's basically just a more specific version of something most of us have (again, openly) already said.

[phonics]

I still don't get it.

[GS]

I think it's possible that the Hound having an important role to play could be played as a solid reason for resurrecting Beric, if they wanted to do it that way. Having him convince the Hound that there's something worth fighting for, etc.

But yeah, it seems like there's a bigger arc that we haven't been really exposed to yet. Possibly if they explore the motivations and past of the Night's King (if he has motivation and past, which I hope he does)?

If you assume that the dragon has three heads and it needs a Targaryen to control one then you'll have Dany on Drogon, Jon on Rhaegal, and the Night King on Viserion.

Maybe that will have something to do with it I.e. something to do with the origins of the Targaryen dynasty and who he is.

[Mazuuurk]

I still don't get it.



In the books, at least (can't remember if this was in an earlier series as well), the vision that some old Witch has for Cersei when she is young states that:

- She will be queen
- She will have 3 children
- They will all die
- Her husband will have 21 children or something (Robert)
- She will die at the hands of a "Valonqar" which could mean anything, but seems to mean "little brother" if you google around

[Jimmy Floyd]

I liked the Night's King better when he was standing in the middle distance glaring in silence. Riding the dragon he just looked like a crap smurf.

[Mazuuurk]

Yeah the brooding thing was quite cool.

Then again, it would be nice with a little bit of context about him / them. Do they speak, for instance?
And, what's really their motivation for invading shit? It's not as if they are looking to get warmer I suppose.

[Jimmy Floyd]

In the books you never actually see the others, other than the one occasion when Sam fights one, and they are more of an unseen, lingering threat. I feel like they could have played it that way a lot more in the series as well. I think once you see them regularly you have to know a bit more about them than we've been shown.

[phonics]

And, what's really their motivation for invading shit? It's not as if they are looking to get warmer I suppose.

The whole thing is called A Song of Ice and Fire...

[Mazuuurk]

Yes I know that.

That doesn't explain their motives, does it?

[ItalAussie]

Do we think they'll get more background than "they're evil, and maybe once this guy was a Targaryen/Stark"?

Also, are wights warg-proof, or is Bran going to save the day?

[Jimmy Floyd]

The entire series has been based around every character having complex motivations behind what they do (although this has been abandoned somewhat since they ran out of source material), it's the reason a non-fantasy fan like me watches it when I find Lord of the Rings style Good vs Evil plots a complete bore.

The Night's King and his mates shouldn't be any different.

[Mazuuurk]

I Googled a bit and found someone claiming that GRRM has told a journalist - or something - "Oh so you think they are Evil, do you?" or some such, on the topic of the White Walkers.

Of course, seems like the kind of thing he'd say just to mindfuck people, but still.

[Pepe]

Finally caught up with this shit in the last few days. Last season was entertaining enough, but the timelines were complete lol. Such weak writing. It is also getting even more cliche/cringey than usual ('How do you respond to the charges *dum dum dum* LITTLEFINGER! *Ooooooooh!*) some proper soap opera stuff in there.