McClaren Sacked (Does Rafa Benitez have what it takes to stay in the Premier League?)

[John Arne]

Least surprisngly news of the day?

[John Arne]

http://www.nufc.co.uk/articles/20160311/statement-from-managing-director-lee-charnley_2281670_5411363



After the defeat to Bournemouth on Saturday the Club has spent some time considering its position and has today concluded that Steve McClaren's employment with the Club will end with immediate effect.

We acknowledge that reaching this decision has taken a number of days and that this has caused uncertainty for everyone involved, in particular for Steve and the players, for which we apologise. However we felt that this time was necessary to ensure the right decisions were reached with the best interests of the Club at heart.

Lee Charnley said: "I would like to thank Steve personally for his services to Newcastle United. He is a man of integrity and class and he has conducted himself with great dignity during this difficult time.

"Steve worked tirelessly to try and bring success to Newcastle United. He has the utmost respect of all the players, staff and management and he leaves with our very best wishes and sincere thanks.

"We feel that a change is now needed in order to give the Club the best possible chance of securing its Premier League future.

"A further announcement on a successor to Steve will be made in due course."

[Kikó]

I remember when Schteve was good. Get him in at united.

[Jimmy Floyd]

3 crap jobs in a row will take some coming back from.

[John Arne]

http://images.cdn.fourfourtwo.com/sites/fourfourtwo.com/files/styles/image_landscape/public/jem_4371_copy_0.jpg?itok=_coXqvdl&c=a6e9593af9d2673416b9ef7d31a29479

[John Arne]

It's Rafa time.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I can't think of an owner/manager duo that deserve each other more than Mike Ashley and Sir Rafa Benitez.

[Kikó]

The commute from the Wirral to Newcastle is doable.

[Disco]

It defies logic that a) Any manager would want the job as anything other than a payday and b) Anyone would seriously consider Benitez to be the right person for the job.

[Boydy]

Why would anyone want to be Newcastle manager?

[Jimmy Floyd]

I'd take the job if offered. My first act would be to get Shola Ameobi's number.

[Magic]

I'd love McLaren at Leeds.

[Max Power]

Tears when Rafa actually says no and it's Joe Kinnear again.

[Waffdon]

I told ye so. Utter fuckwit.

[Pepe]

Why would anyone want to be Newcastle manager?

No wonder you're unemployed.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Sir Rafa confirmed. What a mug.

[phonics]

708309869204545536

[Smiffy]

.....

[Vim]

If he goes down. :D

[Jimmy Floyd]

It's a weird one. He's hardly a blood and thunder motivator of men, like your archetypal drop-beater. In fact, all his players hate him.

[Lewis]

Like niko said the other day, this must be the biggest in-season fall from grace ever.

[niko_cee]

Aye.

He also has to be the least likely candidate to get on with the Newcastle model of doing things. I would have thought Moyes would have been a better bet.

Mad to think that it's getting on for a decade since he was a decent manager. When did he have the fachts breakdown? He's been essentially phoning it in since then.

[Disco]

I'm continually amazed that people within football seem to be utterly blind to reality, in what world is this a good appointment? They're doomed, ok they were pretty much gone already but this has to seal the deal.

[Max Power]

I'm continually amazed that people within football seem to be utterly blind to reality, in what world is this a good appointment? They're doomed, ok they were pretty much gone already but this has to seal the deal.

They're one point off safety with a game in hand and have replaced a complete and utter loser with a manager who is at the very least, competent. Wouldn't say they are doomed at all.

[Disco]

Competant? :harold:

[Toby]

Newcastle's problem did seem to be precious wankers who couldn't play for the manager, so maybe getting in somebody who's won most things and been at clubs like Real Madrid (however he has done there) will satisfy their egos enough to actually turn up.

[Max Power]

Yeah he is isn't he? He's not Pep Guardiola or Claudio Ranieri but In comparison to Steve McClaren, yes. In comparison to the managers he is in direct competition with down the bottom, Alex Neil and Sam Allardyce, yes.

[Boydy]

Did he not do a half decent job at Napoli?

Genuine question, I have no idea.

He was never going to work at Real Madrid though. That much was obvious to anyone.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Given that Napoli sacked him for the Empoli manager who now has them a close second to Juve, probably not.

[Gray Fox]

This looks to me like an appointment that, when they go down at the end of the season, they'll say "well, we tried."

[Reg]

I don't know how they've convinced him but it's a massive coup. Everyone is too harsh on his recent spells (Chelsea fans were ridiculous), and even if he's achieved less than par after Liverpool, he's better than anyone else Newcastle could feasibly get.

[Giggles]

Fuckers couldn't leave it til after Leicester :(

[Lee]

Definitely going to be nil nil in Monday now. He loves a shit off. Fuckers.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Everyone is too harsh on his recent spells (Chelsea fans were ridiculous)

The archives will show you that I was all for it when he was appointed with us, but within two weeks he had turned me against him faster than you can say 'unspeakable cunt who hates football'. His approach to any job is to turn players into joyless pieces of shit who do as he says, which would be slightly better if what he said wasn't a complete load of horseshit.

Sure he might 'get results' from time to time, though increasingly less often, but those results are to the long term detriment of the club in question and all the players under his control, and control is definitely the word.

[GS]

Lord Benitez has won:

Valencia
La Liga: 2001–02, 2003–04
UEFA Cup: 2003–04

Liverpool
FA Cup: 2005–06
FA Community Shield: 2006
UEFA Champions League: 2004–05
UEFA Super Cup: 2005

Inter Milan
Supercoppa Italiana: 2010
FIFA Club World Cup: 2010

Chelsea
UEFA Europa League: 2012–13

Napoli
Coppa Italia: 2013–14
Supercoppa Italiana: 2014

Now, you can scoff at him if you want, but he wins things and he goes deep in competitions that he's involved in - CL final 2007, CL semi-final 2008, UEFA Cup semi-finals in 2010 and 2015. He's the sort of manager that your average shit European at Newcastle is going to look at and think he knows what he's doing, unlike Schteve who they're only going to know as a dreadful England manager at best.

I think he'll do well there (well being top half) if he keeps them up this year.

One suspects he's only doing this for the opportunity to relegate Allardyce.

[Reg]

The archives will show you that I was all for it when he was appointed with us, but within two weeks he had turned me against him faster than you can say 'unspeakable cunt who hates football'. His approach to any job is to turn players into joyless pieces of shit who do as he says, which would be slightly better if what he said wasn't a complete load of horseshit.

Sure he might 'get results' from time to time, though increasingly less often, but those results are to the long term detriment of the club in question and all the players under his control, and control is definitely the word.
And you're a Mourinho fan?

[Shindig]

Since his Liverpool days I've seen him as one of the best cup managers. I am hoping he can drill a honeymoon into these players. We need all the wins we can get.

[Jimmy Floyd]

And you're a Mourinho fan?

Can't you see the difference? Mourinho's football has a shitload of joy in it. Joy at the suffering of others, joy at his own manifest brilliance, the cackling of a dastardly supervillain. It's like Machiavelli on grass. Benitez is like accountancy software on grass.

[Pepe]

So that's why gs likes him.

[GS]

This is why I like Lord Benitez:

http://www.theasiankop.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Rafa.jpg

It's the only major trophy I've seen Liverpool lift, and we could well never win it again. How could you not think he's a boss?

[Byron]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/mar/11/rafael-benitez-newcastle-united-real-madrid

That first paragraph :D

[Samadini]

Newcastle's problem did seem to be precious wankers who couldn't play for the manager, so maybe getting in somebody who's won most things and been at clubs like Real Madrid (however he has done there) will satisfy their egos enough to actually turn up.

This is spot on.

[niko_cee]

Hadn't thought of the Allardyce angle.

Here's hoping for a wavy hand gesture in the derby.

:drool:

[Shindig]

Hope this opens the door for Jose Enrique to come back.

[Ian]

Allardyce sending Benitez down would be amazing.

[Giggles]

I've gone from really not caring to all aboard the Big Sam train in that battle.

[Shindig]

Just a reminder that Big Sam picked a known paedo on the left wing.

[Ian]

Newcastle employed a known Nile Ranger, to be fair.

[ItalAussie]

How long does Benitez have to go before 2005 becomes the outlier rather than the legacy?

[Shindig]

He won the Europa Leauge, mate.

[CJay]

How long does Benitez have to go before 2005 becomes the outlier rather than the legacy?

It's not really an outlier when you consider he's won the Uefa Cup twice (including one this decade), and been to another Champions League final. Sure, the majority of his success was a while ago, but it's stupid to suggest it's an outlier. How many current managers have 3 European trophies on their CVs?

[ScousePig]

Just a reminder that Big Sam picked a known paedo on the left wing.

And you know this how? Unless I've missed something (I've not really kept up since Byrne resigned), it was our former chief executive that had access to some of the information of the case, not Allardyce/the whole club.

[niko_cee]

How long does Benitez have to go before 2005 becomes the outlier rather than the legacy?

It was a fairly steady upward curve from his Valencia days until the fachts breakdown. It's lost in the subsequent lolfest, but his Liverpool side were seriously good (in relative terms). Not many teams beat Real Madrid 5-0 (on aggregate) in the European Cup, and that result was hardly an outlier. Since it all went wrong he's just jobbed around, by and large taking the money (by the looks of things). Maybe that's what you do once you have established a reputation, just cash in on it. Thinking about it, Ashley is probably one of the saner owners he will have worked for. Was Moratti still in charge when he was at Inter?

Moratti, Abramovich, Di Laurentis, Perez . . .

[GS]

How long does Benitez have to go before 2005 becomes the outlier rather than the legacy?


It's not really an outlier when you consider he's won the Uefa Cup twice (including one this decade), and been to another Champions League final. Sure, the majority of his success was a while ago, but it's stupid to suggest it's an outlier. How many current managers have 3 European trophies on their CVs?

CJay has addressed the point here, I think. As I mentioned previously, Rafa goes deep in competitions season after season. In Europe alone, it's something obscene like:

2003 - European Cup Quarter Final
2004 - Won the UEFA Cup
2005 - Won the European Cup
2006 - Last 16
2007 - European Cup final
2008 - European Cup semi-final
2009 - European Cup quarter final
2010 - UEFA Cup semi-final
2011 - n/a
2012 - n/a
2013 - Won the UEFA Cup
2014 - UEFA Cup Last 16
2015 - UEFA Cup semi-final

That's eleven seasons, and he has three trophies, one other final, three semi-finals, two quarter finals and two last 16s. 2005 isn't an outlier. Mourinho, despite managing teams throwing serious money around, has won three European trophies in a comparable period and has only made it past a European semi-final once since 2004.

[Samadini]

Liverpool fans finally forming an allegiance with Newcastle fans. :drool:

There's going to be so much hate.

[GS]

I'm a Rafa supporter because the man wins things and too many people appear to have bought into the wider media narrative that he's shit. He's very much not.

How has the appointment went down with Newcastle fans?

[Samadini]

Everyone is absolutely shitting their pants with excitement.

The club has never appointed a manager of this caliber, a lot of apathy out the window with this move.

[GS]

Rafa. :cool:

[Davgooner]

Rafael.

[Vim]

Benitez was dreadful in Italy.

[Samadini]

Rafa. :drool:

Fuck you Vim.

[igor_balis]

I have mixed feelings about Benitez, but the way some people get virtually hysterical about how awful they think he is always perplexes me.

As Jimmy says, he's not a traditional man-motivator that clubs usually go for in relegation battles. He's a great tactician though, especially defensively. I think he will keep them up, personally.

[Mellberg]

Credit where it'a due. That's a brilliant appointment.

[Shindig]

And you know this how? Unless I've missed something (I've not really kept up since Byrne resigned), it was our former chief executive that had access to some of the information of the case, not Allardyce/the whole club.

Big Sam looks like the kind of person that can spot a one at birth. Damn, son. I got my fight back. Can't wait to be deflated and back in my place on Monday.

[CJay]

I assume there's some sort of escape clause in his contract if they get relegated? I can't really picture him managing in the Championship.

[Samadini]

Yeah, there's a get out clause in the event of relegation.

Then it's back to reality and Pearson.

[Shindig]

Its one of the reasons I want us to stay up. I don't want to chew through managers every 7 months.

[Toby]

I lolled at GS blaming "the media narrative" for people thinking Benitez is shit. That was hardly consensus when he rocked up at Chelsea.

[Lewis]

I liked SG's theory on 'Rafa' (that he probably nicked off some podcast). He dons the cups because he's a big fat nerd, but over the course of a league season too much shite you can't plan for happens. Teams raise their game; nobodies bang in lol free-kicks; some cunt lobs a balloon on the pitch; Alex Ferguson breaks into your house and puts the remote in the fridge to convince you that you're losing it... It's why he should have been England manager.

[John Arne]

Benitez was dreadful in Italy.

I heard on the radio the other day that he had a better win percentage than the previous 7 or something Napoli managers, and he won two trophies.

[ScousePig]

Big Sam looks like the kind of person that can spot a one at birth. Damn, son. I got my fight back. Can't wait to be deflated and back in my place on Monday.

It's written for you to do us this time though, just like it usually is the other way around.

[ScousePig]

Liverpool fans finally forming an allegiance with Newcastle fans. :drool:

There's going to be so much hate.

Isn't Benitez quite well liked generally though?

[Samadini]

Don't know, seems fairly mixed, but that wasn't what I was getting at.

Football fans in general seem to love ripping into Liverpool and Newcastle fans and now they're becoming one.

[Vim]

I heard on the radio the other day that he had a better win percentage than the previous 7 or something Napoli managers, and he won two trophies.

"Better than Mazzarri" is hardly a statement of success.

He had one of the top 3 squads in Italy, yet in his second year only finished fifth in the league. For all his reputation of going deep in the cups, he got knocked out of the Champions League by Bilbao in the qualifiers. With a very similar squad, Sarri is challenging for the title even though it's only his second season ever coaching in Serie A.

[John Arne]

Still, better than the previous 7 managers. FACHT.

[Max Power]

None of which had the kind of resources Benitez had at his disposal

[Vim]

Surely if you go back seven managers before Benitez, Napoli were not even in the top division. How is that in any way relevant?

[SvN]

One of his two trophies was also the Italian equivalent of the Charity Shield.

[John Arne]

I guess what I'm trying to say is Benitez > McCLaren.

[Vim]

I don't think anyone disputes that. It's a pretty big appointment for a club that's fighting relegation.

[Angelsaint]

Benitez is definitely not shit.
Saint has spoken.

[ItalAussie]

CJay has addressed the point here, I think. As I mentioned previously, Rafa goes deep in competitions season after season. In Europe alone, it's something obscene like:

2003 - European Cup Quarter Final
2004 - Won the UEFA Cup
2005 - Won the European Cup
2006 - Last 16
2007 - European Cup final
2008 - European Cup semi-final
2009 - European Cup quarter final
2010 - UEFA Cup semi-final
2011 - n/a
2012 - n/a
2013 - Won the UEFA Cup
2014 - UEFA Cup Last 16
2015 - UEFA Cup semi-final

That's eleven seasons, and he has three trophies, one other final, three semi-finals, two quarter finals and two last 16s. 2005 isn't an outlier. Mourinho, despite managing teams throwing serious money around, has won three European trophies in a comparable period and has only made it past a European semi-final once since 2004.

From 2007, that's definitely a downwards trend.

Even more so when you consider that at Valencia and initially Liverpool, he made real waves in the league.

[GS]

I think he clearly isn't the sort of manager to come in to a MASSIVE club and keep everybody happy (Inter and Real demonstrate this), but he's tactically very strong and he can get 'second tier' teams competing at a very high level. You can cite his record as a downward trend, but Europe is not an arena where managers achieve consistent success, particularly with second tier teams. He has consistently went 'deep' in these competitions. Given the teams he has managed, it's not an incomparable record to someone like Mourinho who has managed teams throwing huge money about and only managed to break through the semi-finals twice in eleven years. His Real team lost three consecutive semi-finals, and they then got thumped by Atletico in the semi-final in 2014. It's not easy.

[ItalAussie]

Are we really treating the UEFA Cup as a serious thing for the purposes of this discussion? Because you can quibble over CL vs League fairly enough, but the UEFA Cup isn't in the same ballpark as either.

[GS]

It's clearly not an equitable competition, but it is treated with some degree of seriousness on the continent. See: Sevilla.

Similarly, I reiterate again that he hasn't been managing Real Madrid, a 'free-spending' Inter or other clubs throwing money about to buy the best players. He has managed second-tier teams (regardless of historical performance), and one must consider his achievements in this context. Two La Liga titles with Valencia and a European Cup with modern-day Liverpool are two huge achievements. His future achievements haven't been as strong, but he has continued to demonstrate a clear aptitude for two-legged ties (relative to your average performance, anyway).

He's not Sacchi, but let's not write him off as a complete waste of space.

[Boydy]

Why do you keep saying he has 'gone deep' rather than 'gone far'?

Seems an odd phrasing choice.

[John]

Because he's swimming with sharks and bossing it.

[GS]

Why do you keep saying he has 'gone deep' rather than 'gone far'?

Seems an odd phrasing choice.

I've always read it as "going deep" into cup competitions, but given they're synonymous phrases I'm sure you can stretch to changing it to something you're more comfortable with in your head whilst you're skim reading it.

[Boydy]

I don't think I've ever seen or heard it before.

[Angelsaint]

GS illusion that Mourinho spends buckets of money has to stop.
Mourinho Real is most likely the only one in real history with a positive saldo. When he was at inter the financial problems were already known and quite big that ended in inter sale. Also he bought mostly rejects or players in their careers final stop.
Don't know how this myth still lives on in GS mind.

[Angelsaint]

I am not even mentioning Porto that was the cheapest Porto in the last 20 years.

[Jimmy Floyd]

'Going deep' is American.

[Byron]

GS illusion that Mourinho spends buckets of money has to stop.
Mourinho Real is most likely the only one in real history with a positive saldo. When he was at inter the financial problems were already known and quite big that ended in inter sale. Also he bought mostly rejects or players in their careers final stop.
Don't know how this myth still lives on in GS mind.

Because it's true.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3385270/Jose-Mourinho-biggest-spending-manager-world-football-past-10-years-makes-10.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/transfers/chelsea-manager-jose-mourinho-forgets-hes-spent-more-on-transfers-than-any-other-manager-in-the-last-10418317.html

http://www.givemesport.com/420702-jose-mourinhos-not-the-special-one-hes-the-spending-one

http://en.espn.co.uk/espn/sport/story/279585.html

But hey, let's not let facts get in the way of your crush on Mourinho.

[Lewis]

Even taking into account the revenue of those clubs from player sales over the same period, Mourinho's net spending has still reached in excess of £300m. To give that some sort of context, Everton have spent £121.8m in the same period on new players and brought in more money than they spent (£135.3m).

That is the worst context ever.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Judging a manager on net spend is like judging a dog on net poo. The dog is going to poo one way or the other, you judge the success of the dog on whether or not it learns to poo on time and in the right place. Everything else - what food the dog eats, the size of the garden available to poo in, whether or not the poo is picked up afterwards - is down to the owner.

[Giggles]

That is pretty much bang on really. People put too much of the happenings at a club down to managers these days.

[Kikó]

Going off the reverse saint principle, Jose has spent bucket loads.

[Lewis]

He has spent a lot, but he's won a lot, so I'm not sure what the problem with those figures is. If anything I thought he had spent a lot more at Madrid.

[leedsrevolution]

If you're given money to spend and then spend it, what's the problem? Ultimately it should be judged on trophies which he has a fuck ton of.

[Toby]

If you're given money to spend and then spend it, what's the problem? Ultimately it should be judged on trophies which he has a fuck ton of.

There's no 'problem' but you'll look a bit silly if you start belittling the achievements of others because of what they've spent (as Mourinho has done) or claiming you haven't spent much (as Saint did on his behalf)

[Angelsaint]

Funny but pity I followed all of his career. Let's start with £10 million at Porto...ehmmm... Hahahahahahaha! They had NO FUCKING MONEY at the time. Mourinho went to buy 3 players from his previous club which Porto payed by loaning players, bought Paulo Ferreira by half a million and maniche for free.
A man got to love this articles that are basically Trump as a journalist, get numbers from thin air.

Let's go to Mourinho first season at real, 20 million for Di Maria. Not sure if Fabio coentrao was signed then but let's add 15 so you have ozil for 14.
50 mil and I still doubt Fabio was signed then.
Numbers are wrong just then but I said SALDO so real sold Di Maria for 90, ozil for 66.

I stop here that my stomach is hurting of me laughing so much.

Anyone who mess with the Saint, you don't lose you get smashed!
BOOM! drops the mic.

[Kikó]

Did the mike drop on your head?

[Pepe]

Funny but pity I followed all of his career. Let's start with £10 million at Porto...ehmmm... Hahahahahahaha! They had NO FUCKING MONEY at the time. Mourinho went to buy 3 players from his previous club which Porto payed by loaning players, bought Paulo Ferreira by half a million and maniche for free.
A man got to love this articles that are basically Trump as a journalist, get numbers from thin air.

Let's go to Mourinho first season at real, 20 million for Di Maria. Not sure if Fabio coentrao was signed then but let's add 15 so you have ozil for 14.
50 mil and I still doubt Fabio was signed then.
Numbers are wrong just then but I said SALDO so real sold Di Maria for 90, ozil for 66.

I stop here that my stomach is hurting of me laughing so much.

Anyone who mess with the Saint, you don't lose you get smashed!
BOOM! drops the mic.

The fuck is that? :D

[Ian]

Saints's plan to turn this into an early 2000s wrestling RP forum is bold and perhaps just the sort of shake-up this place needs to get things ticking over again.

[Bam]

That Saint post. :lol:

[Angelsaint]

I see everyone ignoring the facts.. I wonder why?

[Byron]

Because it's not worth engaging with an idiot.

[Kikó]

In the period he spent 10m with Porto how much did Sporting and Benfica spend?

[Angelsaint]

First as you conveniently ignored Porto didn't spend 10 m or even close to 2 m.

Secondly and answering your question, there is a reason that for the first time in years Porto was not a favorite.

Advice: better to follow advice of the other morons and go for insult instead of arguing, better chance you win a argument since I won't lower to such levels.

[John Arne]

Saint... do you ever wonder why everybody disagrees with you, and not just a few?

[Toby]

"A man got to love this articles that are basically Trump as a journalist, get numbers from thin air."
*proceeds to pluck numbers from thin air*

[CJay]

He said SALDO, alright?

[phonics]

Ozil 66 million. lol.

You can literally download Ozils transfer online from footballleaks

http://i.imgur.com/TeecgSt.png

But we're the ones plucking numbers out of thin air.

edit: Here's Di Maria's where Saint is once again, wrong.

http://i.imgur.com/Ib5PGhT.png

[Angelsaint]

No I didn't pick up the numbers from thin air. I remember those numbers in the media and I think with some clauses it can reach the amount I wrote.

Nice try guys.

About the first question, John Arne, i wasn't here when the election was made and EVERYONE voted for you to be EVERYONE'S PR.

[Magic]

With Saint's fuckwit clause his stupidity can also reach unfathomable levels.

[Angelsaint]

Insults... The sign of a remarkable e-victory.

[John]

Lol at giving the value of his buys in sterling and the value of the sales in euros to accentuate the difference. So, so transparent.

[Magic]

Lol at giving the value of his buys in sterling and the value of the sales in euros to accentuate the difference. So, so transparent.

Like his hair. :(

[Toby]

Vague memories from somebody consistently wrong about details aren't likely to trump actual researched figures.

[phonics]

No I didn't pick up the numbers from thin air. I remember those numbers in the media and I think with some clauses it can reach the amount I wrote.

Nice try guys.

About the first question, John Arne, i wasn't here when the election was made and EVERYONE voted for you to be EVERYONE'S PR.

No I quoted the direct maximums they can make out of the transfers, Saint. I've directly cited the actual contract the clubs involved have signed. Please stop trying to be correct in the face of being wrong, it's what makes Harold so tedious. Just say 'Sorry, I was wrong' and move on.

edit: There is a clause in both that state that the transfer fee cannot rise above a certain amount if currency value were to fluctuate in a way to make it a bad deal for the buying side but apart from that. Nah.

[Pepe]

He remembers the figures. :D

[Angelsaint]

No I quoted the direct maximums they can make out of the transfers, Saint. I've directly cited the actual contract the clubs involved have signed. Please stop trying to be correct in the face of being wrong, it's what makes Harold so tedious. Just say 'Sorry, I was wrong' and move on.

edit: There is a clause in both that state that the transfer fee cannot rise above a certain amount if currency value were to fluctuate in a way to make it a bad deal for the buying side but apart from that. Nah.

No,you cited a part of the contract. Quite different.
As I told you before I am not easily to be fooled like the sheep around here.
If I see any proof that I am wrong I have no problem to admit it.

Even if the figures you claim are right, which at the moment look like they aren't, my point still stands and Mourinho saldo was very positive and the myth of him being a manager who spends loads of money should end.

[Shindig]

The money's never bothered me about Mourinho. His reluctance to use youth kinda does.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Don't think Sir Rafa's too hot on youngsters either. They are too error-prone, the silly, fresh-faced sods. They should go into dancing or some other profession which rewards spark and exuberance. Football is for god-fearing men.

[SvN]

Poll added

[Angelsaint]

The money's never bothered me about Mourinho. His reluctance to use youth kinda does. Totally agree with you but then again unless you are playing FM, age should not be a priority for a club that wants to win everything.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The thrill of watching a homegrown team win significantly outweighs the thrill of watching Raul Meireles and Yuri Zhirkov do so. And the aim of any football manager should be to provide maximum thrill, the thrill leaning as it does heavily on results.

[GS]

The average Chelsea fan should consider the Abramovich takeover the equivalent of a Faustian Pact. It brought sustained success, but the idea of having a working youth system or managerial stability is wholly alien to a club where one man's whim is unashamedly catered to.

[Angelsaint]

Poetic, ridiculous but poetic nonetheless.

[Toby]

Abramovich has largely done his bit as far as youth systems go. I doubt there's a club in the world with facilities or a scouting network significantly better than Chelsea's. The managerial stability point is one to note, sure, but I think there are plenty of managers out there who might have given it a better go than some of the longer serving appointments at Chelsea. There's no reason they couldn't be giving three or four capable youngsters regular game time and still seriously challenging - in fact they'd almost certainly do better than they have recently with some of the plodding wankers that have been turning out.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The average Chelsea fan should consider the Abramovich takeover the equivalent of a Faustian Pact. It brought sustained success, but the idea of having a working youth system or managerial stability is wholly alien to a club where one man's whim is unashamedly catered to.

Our youth system is probably hundreds of times superior now to 2003. It produces multiple excellent players every year. They all just end up at other clubs or their careers stall because they never get the chance to develop in a high quality first team. There is at least one in the just named England squad.

Arsenal, Spurs both offer those opportunities and they are 8 places above us. Their youth academies are also massively inferior to ours. We piss the youth trophies every year.

[Shindig]

Totally agree with you but then again unless you are playing FM, age should not be a priority for a club that wants to win everything.

Maybe not but fostering talent can harbour one of two things:

1. The kid garners some kind of loyalty to the club.
2. The kid gets too big for his boots but, as a young, homegrown player for a big club, you can sell him to City for Bahrain's GDP.

[GS]

Our youth system is probably hundreds of times superior now to 2003. It produces multiple excellent players every year. They all just end up at other clubs or their careers stall because they never get the chance to develop in a high quality first team. There is at least one in the just named England squad.

Arsenal, Spurs both offer those opportunities and they are 8 places above us. Their youth academies are also massively inferior to ours. We piss the youth trophies every year.

A working youth system implies some possibility, indeed probability, of producing young players who make their way into the first team squad. This is probably a failure of short-termism by the manager in question, but that's inevitable given Abramovich fucking loves a sacking.