U.S. Presidential Election 2016 (Sponsored by Betty Croker's Hamburger Helper)

[mikem]

Which is why R’s probably won’t lose 1,000 seats like D’s did. However, it is a potentially bad group for R’s because of their geographic dispersion.

[phonics]

Flake has been speaking for 15 minutes and the most substantive thing he's said is “I say to all of our colleagues: for this process to be a ...process, we must have open minds.”

[mikem]

He wouldn’t have survived his primary here for a reason.

[niko_cee]

It's depressing to watch this Kavanaugh business. It demeans the role. It's a good job the country itself manages to get by so remarkably well, because institutionally it appears to be fucked at every level nowadays.

[mikem]

I just barely remember the Thomas one but that was also insane. The morning and afternoon hearings have been insane for totally different reasons. What is truly sad is the morning seemed like both left and right watched the same hearing. Afternoon is all partisan.

[Lewis]

What do normal people think of this?

[niko_cee]

The worst part is how thick the senators seem to be. This Blumenthal one is upping the ante on the div that went before him (who set a high bar).

[mugbull]

Lindsey Graham, in full meltdown mode because the Democrats are finally willing to play the game the Republicans have been playing for 20 years, has been a highlight

[phonics]

Getting a female prosecutor to cross examine the witness claiming to be a victim of sexual assault and then dismissing them two questions in when she addresses the accused perpetrator is a bad look for the GOP members of that committee and an even worse look for a judge looking for his second lifetime appointment.

https://i.imgur.com/I4vCdRR.png

Is the face of a man being challenged for the first time in his life at 53 years old.

[mikem]

Normal Americans are smart and pay no mind outside of “Washington is the worst place in the country.” The tv news coverage will dictate a lot.

Women I personally known in their 30’s and 40’s were pissed and crying. We pretty much just accepted the office was shut down today. But that group of women has gotten so political this year it is hard to describe. They used to be interested and involved in politics, but local stuff like school boards. They have just completely moved into national activism.

The conservative men I know and can talk politics about while just kidding around calling each other baby killers were really quiet this morning and totally aggrieved this afternoon.

[Pepe]

Women I personally known in their 30’s and 40’s were pissed and crying.

:D

[mikem]

I don’t know people in their twenties anymore.

[ItalAussie]

If you're going to be evil, at least be competently evil. A Supreme Court justice is such a huge deal, and it's clear that the Republicans didn't do due diligence in making sure their ultra-conservative nominee was impeccably crystal clear. They need to be tracking down school friends, colleagues, and anyone who might possibly have been in a situation who could have been aggrieved at some point. Nothing like this should ever catch them by surprise - especially so close to a tough midterm, meaning that time is limited.

I suspect that the Republicans never thought to ask anyone who wasn't in "their circle" as to whether there would be problems with the nomination. Which is crazy, because they're not going to be the ones with charges to make.

[phonics]

They already knew and just ignored it. McConnell advised against picking him but Trump.

[niko_cee]

Reading about him, he does seem to have built a career by being a bit of an ultra-conservative shill. That said, I don't know that you can seriously judge people based on their behaviour as a teenager/student, short of them having committed actual, proven crimes. I know it's seen as a massive issue, but does the 'balance of the court' really make as big a difference to things as the hysteria would suggest? I can't imagine them being able to overturn Roe v Wade or the Brown case, for example, without causing some sort of revolution. Or is it all the little things? Baing a bit more conservative and allowing states to steadily erode into things/being very 'liberal' with the extent of the President's powers etc?

I think the most disturbing thing I read was that he was high-school buddies with that Gorsuch chap they appointed last year. I don't know why but I didn't like the idea of that one bit

[Boydy]

You've been coming across as very right wing in your past couple of days of posts, Niko. Hadn't had you down as that before.

[ItalAussie]

I do wonder about Roe v Wade. Assume that Kavanaugh or equivalent gets in, the pressure will really be on them to act on it. The Republicans have been saying they want to overturn it but they need a majority solidly conservative Supreme Court for what, 20 years? And soon they'll have it.

But the other thing is that if they do overturn Roe, they'll risk the loss of millions of single-issue voters. And they know that - it's definitely the biggest single issue for a huge number of people, because when they're backed into a corner, they can always play what even more cynical Christians refer to as the abortion juke. "Sure, maybe Christianity does say we should be nice to poor people, and maybe we're handing the country over to corporations, and sure people are dying because they don't have healthcare, and maybe they'll cut healthcare to a dinosaur colouring book and a pocket calculator with a face drwan on it - but the other side literally kills babies". They'd have a real risk of losing the conservative catholic voters, who typically put abortion first, then a big gap, then support a litany of social welfare initiatives.

But if they do get the court, and then really obviously do nothing... the landscape might get complicated.

[Lewis]

You've been coming across as very right wing in your past couple of days of posts, Niko. Hadn't had you down as that before.

I bet he's been to about a hundred dinner parties since June 2016 and hasn't once been able to say he supports Brexit. He's obviously going to vent on here.

[niko_cee]

Mate, I've got 3 kids, I haven't been to a 'dinner party' for about 7 years. I'd tell anyone anyway, even though I didn't actually vote, so I could more safely lol from the sidelines at my wife/her family whilst not being directly accountable and, you know, sovereignty etc.

I've never voted for Labour, mind. Nor would I, in all likelihood.

[Lewis]

'Da Nang Richard' is straight into the top five Trump nicknames.

[Lewis]

I realise that they had to get him in, but there is something pretty interesting/great about Trump and that not caving in on this judge. I think pretty much every 'normal' politician would have shat the bed and pulled him, but what you gonna do mate out-lie and out-bully Donald J. Trump? You need a new approach.

[phonics]

I realise that they had to get him in, but there is something pretty interesting/great about Trump and that not caving in on this judge. I think pretty much every 'normal' politician would have shat the bed and pulled him, but what you gonna do mate out-lie and out-bully Donald J. Trump? You need a new approach.

From reporting it seems it was the opposite, Trump caved and wanted a full FBI investigation which would have destroyed him. McGahn (the guy that chose Kavanaugh and all these other numpties that will make certain that China will overtake the US sooner rather than later) pulled through instead.

[Pepe]

Hopefully we can move on to be enraged about something else now.

[Lewis]

Yeah, because he probably didn't know how FBI checks worked. Once it will have been explained to him that he couldn't just give them forever to go through every aspect of his life, he then comes out to bat and starts slamming people.

[phonics]

Yeah, because he probably didn't know how FBI checks worked. Once it will have been explained to him that he couldn't just give them forever to go through every aspect of his life, he then comes out to bat and starts slamming people.

That's giving Trump way too much credit.

If any other Republican had been elected, can you tell me a notable policy/personnel difference?

[Pepe]

I have no idea whether Trump wanted to stick with him or not, but I do know that he will claim the e-victory regardless and ride the rage-wave all the way to the re-election.

[phonics]

If Beto O'Lib beats Ted Cruz in Texas only for the democrats to lose New Jersey because they stuck with a corrupt pro-business asshole that even the corrupt pro-business people don't like, I will lol.

[Lewis]

I think a 'moderate' Republican would have either shit it and pulled the nomination, or just hidden away and hoped it went through without tainting them. The Donald mate comes out the front door and starts baiting 'Da Nang Richard' calling the media Democrats.

[phonics]

I think a 'moderate' Republican would have either shit it and pulled the nomination, or just hidden away and hoped it went through without tainting them. The Donald mate comes out the front door and starts baiting 'Da Nang Richard' calling the media Democrats.

No 'moderate' Republican would have got elected. The Republican party is just these nutters. Ted Cruz has claimed that O'Rourke will ban barbecue food and make ISIS-sympathiser education mandatory.

For a sign of what counts as moderate, Jeff Flake's (what a fucking slug, I actually hate him more than the likes of Steve King who is at least honest about his racism) sons gaming/twitter accounts got made public recently. Goes by the name of n-wordkilla41 (censorship is on my side not his) or something.

[Boydy]

Did you see that video of Beto O'Rourke that Cruz shared on Twitter? It was him talking to a congregation at some black church and saying that police killings of unarmed black men have to stop and that he supported the 'Take a Knee' protests and Cruz seemed to think the video made O'Rourke look bad. It was just baffling.

[phonics]

Did you see that video of Beto O'Rourke that Cruz shared on Twitter? It was him talking to a congregation at some black church and saying that police killings of unarmed black men have to stop and that he supported the 'Take a Knee' protests and Cruz seemed to think the video made O'Rourke look bad. It was just baffling.

It had black people applauding him. Preventing black people from being happy is the only part of the GOP platform that the base actually likes. You'll note they're actively avoiding talking about their massive tax cut that they said was incredibly popular, weird that.

[mugbull]

O'Rourke is a proper politician to get behind. He might be a bit too Obama on the pragmatist-idealist spectrum, but he's a hard fucking worker

[phonics]

O'Rourke is a proper politician to get behind. He might be a bit too Obama on the pragmatist-idealist spectrum, but he's a hard fucking worker

I hate this push to get him to run for the big boy job if he wins. Motherfuckers, you will likely not win Texas again for a decade, do not remove the only way you'll have that senate vote.

But yeah on a policy level he's a shitlib who will try to be bipartisan because he somehow hasn't realised the game is rigged.

How you spend 6 months turning the ACA into a giant subsidy for the insurance industry to get Republican votes, have them vote unanimously against it and send most of it to be challenged by the Supreme Court and STILL try to compromise with these lizards is beyond me.

[mugbull]

The reason why is there still isn't anybody on the Democratic ticket who could win in 2020. O'Rourke maybe could, but his would be a totally feckless presidency if he went in that early.

[phonics]

The reason why is there still isn't anybody on the Democratic ticket who could win in 2020. O'Rourke maybe could, but his would be a totally feckless presidency if he went in that early.

Trump won by 50k across 3 states because of a terrible democratic turnout for a bad candidate. They run any of Warren/Gilibrand/Harris/Bernie and it'll be fine. I even think Biden could win but it'd be touch and go. The scary part is I seriously think if anyone who preaches what they should (Medicare 4 All, Corporate Gains back to 30% etc.) will get an independent challenge from Michael Bloomberg which might be just enough to split the vote for Trump.

[mugbull]

Of those 4, only Harris would run, and she's probably the best candidate they have. But I'm not sure the increased Dem turnout wouldn't be offset by increased Republican turnout.

[mugbull]

Is Bloomberg trying to run independent? Haven't heard anything there

[phonics]

Of those 4, only Harris would run, and she's probably the best candidate they have. But I'm not sure the increased Dem turnout wouldn't be offset by increased Republican turnout.

There isn't going to be increased Republican turnout. Their core vote is old people who already vote. Trump got the same as Mitt Romney despite the voting population increasing by 15 million people.


Is Bloomberg trying to run independent? Haven't heard anything there

He keeps dropping hints about 'If the Democrats move too far left', the mans a rampant egomaniac and he has enough money to make the kind of grifter consultant base spend a lot of time convincing him he should for a paycheck.

[mugbull]

I don't think so, the foregone conclusion aspect of 2016 (obligatory lol) meant that all sorts of people affiliated with either party stayed home. Trump's going to lose the popular vote regardless, but who's to say Wisconsin / Michigan / Pennsylvania haven't gotten more polarized since the last election?

When I talk to people I usually take your point of view, that I can't see how Trump wins the next election, but I guarantee that the Democratic party is fucking quaking it their boots about choosing the right candidate and that's only going to hurt their chances. They should coalesce around someone as soon as possible

[Lewis]

He'll win the next election because growth is high (unless that bubble bursts) and the opposition won't be able to stop themselves looking like mentals.

[John Arne]

He'll win the next election because growth is high (unless that bubble bursts) and the opposition won't be able to stop themselves looking like mentals.

This. The left are so far up their own arse nowadays, they lose the election regardless of what Trump does.

[phonics]

Ah yes the people turning up to Trump rally's wearing Q shirts because they believe *checks notes* that Donald Trump is working with Robert Mueller to secretly arrest Hollywood paedo's... Those people are normal.

1049093523436457995

Incredibly normal.

[Lewis]

I am enjoying people railing against small states having the same voting power as larger ones without being able to connect the dots towards less federal government.

[phonics]

The House was supposed to increase with population but they froze it in 1910 for some reason I'm not sure of because I didn't take a class in American Civics.

[phonics]

WSJ have an op-ed out claiming tax dodging is okay because ‘all rich people do it’. Would love to see this type of thinking applied to other laws.

[niko_cee]

Without seeing the article, doesn't that depend on what you are defining as 'tax dodging'?

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

Trump winning the next election will be worth it for the meltdown alone which will eclipse the first.

[mugbull]

This. The left are so far up their own arse nowadays, they lose the election regardless of what Trump does.

Come again?

[Shindig]

Personality politics, lads. There's no bigger personality than Don.

[phonics]

Without seeing the article, doesn't that depend on what you are defining as 'tax dodging'?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/dogs-bite-men-and-trumps-duck-taxes-1538780049


Unfortunately, the most interesting revelation is one the Times buries—the astonishing degree to which father Fred Trump patiently financed and strategically connived in the creation of what the paper calls the “Donald Trump myth.” Think Joseph P. Kennedy. There’s even a parallel in the displacement of firstborn son Fred Jr. from his original slot as heir apparent.

In one way excruciatingly detailed by the Times, however, Mr. Trump and his sire are nothing new under the sun. Nobody in their right mind from the compulsive accumulator class pays the punitive federal estate tax. From an early age, such people make sure their lifetime achievements are not sucked up and splattered away in 15 seconds of federal spending. Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos and Mark Zuckerberg, all apparently in the pink of health, have been working for years to shield their assets from the taxman. Sam Walton, the saintly founder of Walmart (http://quotes.wsj.com/WMT) , in his autobiography advised: “The best way to reduce paying estate taxes is to give your assets away before they appreciate.”

Because politicians find it useful to appease both the envious and the wealthy, the IRS code features both an estate tax and ways to avoid it. A loophole the Times accuses the Trumps of using is a so-called grantor-retained annuity trust, described as “one of the tax code’s great gifts to the ultrawealthy.” Unsurprisingly, it also happens to be a favorite (https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/71691/000091066202000055/sc13da8.txt?mod=article_inline) of the Sulzberger family, which owns the New York Times.

Show me a wealthy entrepreneur whose family paid the death tax of 55% (now 40%) and I will show you an entrepreneur who died unexpectedly. Or who, like Miami Dolphins owner Joe Robbie, watched from beyond the grave as his careful arrangements were upended by his squabbling heirs.

He goes on to say, journalists get annoyed about this but I bet they have had a speeding ticket or an illegal fishing license at one point so all is fair.


Also, let’s note an important underpinning of many such newspaper investigations. Journalists are as unlikely as the next person to adhere rigidly to the law in their driving habits, their use of pharmaceuticals, their failure to procure a valid fishing license.

(As the piece notes, Donald Trump 'earned' at least $413 million from this tax dodge.)

Here is the full times piece: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/10/02/us/politics/donald-trump-tax-schemes-fred-trump.html

[Lewis]

I successfully dodged a shoplifting charge today by not stealing anything.

[niko_cee]

'Dodging' inheritance tax really is scraping the barrel.

It shouldn't really exist. Certainly on a practical level, possibly on a theoretical one too.

[Boydy]

It should be 100%.

[niko_cee]

As should income tax for those earning more than you, etc.

[Lewis]

There shouldn't even be wages to tax. Everyone should just be given rice and clothes by the state, and we could all live in barracks.

[phonics]

How did working in the private sector go for you Lewis? Did you find that your superior intellect and skill got you a foot in the door and ahead once you arrived in it as meritocracy dictates?

[Jimmy Floyd]

It should be 100%.

They'd just give it away then, so the only way to get the dosh off them would be state assassinations.

[Lewis]

I don't think you even know what point you're making there.

[mugbull]

All the Kochs and such avoided paying top tax on their inheritances by "donating" the money to various organizations that were either already shells for their wealth or eventually became their playthings. Estate tax is probably a better avenue of attack and really needs to be far higher.

[phonics]

Estate tax is too easy to dodge because it only comes into effect when you've had half a century and more resources than the government to work out how to never pay that money. The answer is stopping people from concentrating that wealth in the first place.

The situation has got so out of hand I'm this close to suggesting that the public sector should just get a vig on everything that happens in the country like they're Tony fucking Soprano. Tax is your protection racket and then a vig to stop us from asking how/why you purchased that third overpriced flat in Canary Wharf.

It's why the Apple/Ireland thing annoys me so much, lads the EU fined them 15 billion (which is probably their incredibly conservative figure), surely you can negotiate yourself to get like 5 to pay for some housing without pissing anyone off.

[John Arne]

Come again?

It's pretty fucking simple. The left are getting more and more mental by the day.

[Queenslander]

It's pretty fucking simple. The left are getting more and more mental by the day.

Pretty sure both extreme sides are to be fair.

[mugbull]

It's pretty fucking simple. The left are getting more and more mental by the day.

Not sure what examples you want to give, but whatever you can provide pales in comparison to the Trumpies

[John Arne]

Pretty sure both extreme sides are to be fair.

For sure, I wouldn't disagree with that.

[ItalAussie]

I really think the current age of extreme political polarisation properly kicked off with the Tea Party/Birth Certificate stuff, and that was transparently-veiled racism of the highest order.

Obviously things don't come out of nowhere, but that really ramped it up to a new level.

[Jimmy Floyd]

American politics 1776 to now is a tale of an ongoing struggle between white supremacists and the rest, this is just the latest iteration. The whole Republican/Democrat thing, or left/right, are just red herrings.

[ItalAussie]

Agreed.

What we're seeing now is the same animosity that's always been there, with the post-war layers of civil pretence being stripped away.

[mugbull]

They're only red herrings until one of them absorbs that entire demographic

[ItalAussie]

Given the US political splits, right/left are pretty much just anti/pro-abortion. They'll argue, rationalize, and whinge about other elements of the platforms, but as long as that's there, there's no way the major bloc of either party will ever fail to toe the line at the polls.

[mugbull]

Sure, but plenty of other issues are just as solidly partisan as that one. You get rid of that abortion distinction and you’ll still have what you have now. And it’s less the issues that perpetuate the divide and more the nature of the people that affiliate with either group

[ItalAussie]

Sure, but plenty of other issues are just as solidly partisan as that one. You get rid of that abortion distinction and you’ll still have what you have now. And it’s less the issues that perpetuate the divide and more the nature of the people that affiliate with either group

I've seen enough arguments where people are willing to question some part of their party's dogma before "but they kill babies" comes along.

The problem is that for a huge portion of the US, it is an issue whose moral implication dwarves everything else. "Unborn holocaust", etc. The language and issue has become so inflamed that for many - especially the religious - it is the single driving issue at the polls.

[Lewis]

Jesus. Imagine an abortion-free America. It would be like South Africa. Anyway...

1050452904543318016

[Shindig]

Christ, he's so autistic.

[Spikey M]

I’m not sure who you’re talking about, but you’re right anyway.

[phonics]

lol at the US having to ground a trillion dollars worth of F35's because they can't be trusted not to fucking crash. I'd say they should take the DoD's engineers and have them work on infrastructre instead but they'd probably end up blowing a crater into Hoover Dam or some shit.

Lol just found out the UK bought four of these pieces of shit 3 months ago for at 70 million a pop. Money well spent.

[Lewis]

The trillion dollar figure includes about fifty years worth of running costs. But yes they should have gone with the General Electric/Rolls-Royce engine.

[Pepe]

Should have stuck to F4Us.

[mugbull]

San Francisco, the yuppiest most rent-controlled city on the planet, is considering a California ballot measure to repeal any sort of statewide limitations on rent-control and allow local jurisdictions to expand it at will. Something like 65% of residents seem keen on a Yes vote. Didn’t know that many people enjoy rampant homelessness.

[niko_cee]

Aren't rents in San Francisco among the highest on the planet anyway?

And isn't the thing you are describing, without knowing anything other than the way you have described it, something which would increase 'rent-control' (which I assume to be capped cost/under market value business)?

[Disco]

I fail to see how there could be more homeless people in San Francisco.

[mugbull]

Rent control doesn't increase the availability affordable housing. Who would develop? You're never gonna reap the benefits either as a developer or as a landlord. Existing tenants might like it in the near term, but years down the road you'll have no movement in and out of rent-controlled housing, no improvements being made on existing housing, and people living in non-rent-controlled areas paying exorbitant sums. What SF needs is changes in zoning ordinances, or - more importantly - money from the state of California for infrastructure projjects. But no, not gonna happen, so let's appease the dumbos for the next couple years with more rent control.

[Lewis]

Doesn't it also have the most restrictive planning regulations imaginable? NIMBYs mate.

[Pepe]

Who would develop?

The state, mate. The state.

[Pepe]

Doesn't it also have the most restrictive planning regulations imaginable? NIMBYs mate.

They can fuck off. Unless they are fighting gentrification, then they're the best people around.

[Lewis]

The anti-gentrification crowd are the biggest sub-group of tossers in the entire NIMBY crew. Even more so than the rural wankers. They're like those idiots who complain that Chelsea home games are getting too expensive ten years after they replaced some poor cunt who had been going for thirty years.

[Shindig]

San Francisco has a lot of rural wankers. And the ones that aren't wankers don't want people shifting in because they're cooking meth.

[Bernanke]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3ueDxWg3Ec

Lyin' Ted!

[mugbull]

Cruz won, but it was super close. Can’t wait for him to perish

[phonics]

The only consistent thread I can see across all the elections is, if you've been found guilty of a crime or are currently being indited for one, you win.

[Lewis]

Hasn't President Donald J. Trump done most of his stuff - or at least his DIVISIVE stuff, like the 'Muslim ban' and the tariff bullshit - with executive orders anyway? Alright, no more tax giveaways; but they presumably went large on it first time round because they saw this coming. They should run that judge confirmation again just for a laugh.

[mikem]

Well, at least everything has reverted to the mean?

[Pepe]

Tronald can keep taking credit for anything good that might happen in the country, but now he can also blame congress for anything that goes wrong. So much winning. :cool:

[Magic]

Ted Cruz might just be the most dis-likeable human being on earth. What a fucking revolting fat pig.

Also lol at the @WHITEHOUSE Twitter uploading and posting a doctored video of the Acosta incident.

[Lewis]

'Your campaign had an ad showing migrants climbing over walls and so on...'
'They weren't actors.'
*entire world marks out*

[mugbull]

Florida is such a horrible state

[phonics]

https://i.redd.it/3274bd8ue6x11.jpg

lol

[John]

1061168803218948096

That's fun.

[ItalAussie]

And the stuff in France, now.

He's just a stupid shambles.

[Kikó]

How many more years until he's gone?

[Lewis]

Six.

[Byron]

You misspelled two.

[Queenslander]

He is working the rooms like a 2 term President.

[John]

Tronald binning the Veterans Day thing at Arlington seems like it might be the one bit of shit that actually sticks to him.

[bruhnaldo]

I thinkhe'll be hard to overcome in 2020. Maybe Biden runs and tries to bring Michelle as a VP (though she's telling everyone who will listen she absolutely hates politics and that's Barack's bag by way of promoting her new autobiography).

They cheated Bernie out of the nomination last time but maybe they throw him a bone since he didn't make a big deal out of it and try to rig the nomination for him.

That Beto O'Rourke fella out of Texas has been getting a lot of love though.

Idk. Anyone outside of those 3 has no shot IMHO.

[Bernanke]

Bernie has little chance when he's not "not Hillary" anymore.

Beto/Harris or Harris/Beto would be my bet right now. Biden is gonna get hit with a lot of "creepy old man" stuff after all the me too-crap.

[Pepe]

"Beto" (:harold:) is the flavor of the month and there is no way he's anywhere near. Warren shot herself on the foot with the whole DNA testing nonsense. Harris just looks like a dark Clinton. Bottom line is: they're fucked. They should just run one of those lol lads they had in there during the first debate and start preparing for 2024.

[Disco]

I wonder what would happen if they decided not to run anyone at all this time.

[Jimmy Floyd]

They could run Uncle Sam himself, with Babe Ruth as running mate, and Trump could probably still lie his way back in.

Their best chance is probably a Bernie type. People are looking for extremes now.

[phonics]

Anyone thinking Beto would even have a chance is a moron.

It'll be whoever wins the women among Gillibrand/Warren/Harris. Maybe Sherrod Brown but I highly doubt it. Bernie won't make it through a crowded primary with 90% of the field nicking the policies that he made look even slightly politically possible.

[Lewis]

I liked that thing on why Hillary Clinton should run again, but this time with a load of trendy new left-wing policies.

Question one: Where have these policy preferences been for the past x years?
*last remaining speck of credibility evaporates*

[mugbull]

All I’ve read, even from the CNN funhouse, says she absolutely should not run. Obviously.

[Bernanke]

Anyone thinking Beto would even have a chance is a moron.

Why is that?

[phonics]

Why is that?

The field has way too many people and the right of him thinks he’s a socialist and everyone to the left thinks he’s a milquetoast lib.

[Disco]

Their best chance is Trump getting bored and finding a way out of having to do another term that sufficiently massages his ego. If not they're left with selecting some schlub who they know can't win and just going through the motions for another four years until he has to go away. Do they have a Michael Howard in America?

[phonics]

I've never understood this line of thought. Why would a rampant narcissist get bored of everyone having to pay attention to him all the time?

[bruhnaldo]

"Beto" (:harold:) is the flavor of the month and there is no way he's anywhere near.

It seemed pretty odd to me as well (not just his handy nickname) since he kinda came out of nowhere (for me in Florida anyways) but I've seen a lot of random noise online and even from more left-leaning friends about him.

[Lewis]

You could have run a nonce against Ted Cruz and he would still have attracted millions of dollars and fawning press coverage, so it's probably not worth reading much into him.

[phonics]

You could have run a nonce against Ted Cruz and he would still have attracted millions of dollars and fawning press coverage, so it's probably not worth reading much into him.

Your comment got me intrigued. Roy Moore got literally the same percent of the vote in Alabama as 'Beto' got. Both notched up 48.3% making Ted Cruz in Texas as loathesome as (D) in Alabama.

[Lewis]

It's more of a national effort with Lyin' Ted, but yeah something like that.

[Bernanke]

Speaking of Lyin' Ted, this might be Triumph's greatest moment starting at 9.30:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ8VV6TqeXI

[phonics]

“The Republicans don’t win and that’s because of potentially illegal votes,” Trump told the conservative Daily Caller website.

“When people get in line that have absolutely no right to vote and they go around in circles. Sometimes they go to their car, put on a different hat, put on a different shirt, come in and vote again. Nobody takes anything. It’s really a disgrace what’s going on.”

He also called for new national ID laws with a bizarre assertion: “If you buy a box of cereal – you have a voter ID.”

He has full on dementia.

[bruhnaldo]

holy shit i thought that was a joke he's really said the cereal thing lol

[ItalAussie]

This is what happens when a stupid person goes their whole life with nobody telling them that they're stupid.

[mugbull]

Doubt he's ever bought his own groceries

[phonics]

525927728395354112

[phonics]

All time GOAT tweet from the President this morning.

https://i.imgur.com/32rlA5r.png

[mugbull]

The "dirt" they've dropped about Trump's building plan negotiations in 2016 so far has been a shitload of nothing. Who cares. He had plans to build a Trump tower in Moscow that continued into his candidacy, that's about it and it's gotten people so riled up.

Maybe they're getting closer to the pee tapes, but unlikely

[phonics]

The "dirt" they've dropped about Trump's building plan negotiations in 2016 so far has been a shitload of nothing. Who cares. He had plans to build a Trump tower in Moscow that continued into his candidacy, that's about it and it's gotten people so riled up.

Maybe they're getting closer to the pee tapes, but unlikely

Watching the point fly by some people is just so odd.

Jimmy Carter was forced to sell his peanut farm (valued at $1 million) in case it unduly affected his decision making. Now you get a guy in who's selling point is "I know how corrupt these people are because I've been bribing them for years" and upon winning goes to a fancy restaurant to tell his billionaire donors "I'm going to make you very rich" and say what's the big deal.

[mugbull]

I mean the tweet was funny

[Bernanke]

So Donald signed the NAFTA-agreement in the wrong place.

1069609790802784257

[phonics]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Du9klXDVAAAYryA.jpg

How did I not think of this scam. GoFundMe doesn't work like kickstarter, you get the money whether you hit the goal or not.

[mikem]

The DNC just dropped the 2020 debate schedule. They’re going to have 12 (seriously??) debates and you get on the main stage either through meeting a polling or grassroots fundraising threshold.

Kind of surprising how afraid of Beto the Bernie camp is. It’s three weeks now of hit stories on campaign contributions from oil and gas employees dressed up as corporate contributions and how his record isn’t as progressive as Bernie’s.

[phonics]

I love how a journalist searching a website for public information on his campaign contributions and voting record is the Bernie Camp putting out hit attacks.

[bruhnaldo]

Saw something about Biden-Beto. I feel like Biden would've won the first go around but I'm not convinced he could now.

[phonics]

Biden-Beto might just be the least inspiring ticket around. Two white-saviors that would lose because the racists love the other guy and the ethnics don't trust them.

Beto's latino turnout was pretty bad considering his position, no?

[bruhnaldo]

From a quick google it says he had 64% of the Latino vote, 11% higher than the Demo candidate for Governor who garnered 53%.

I don't know what that % looks like over past candidates though.

[mikem]

To win a Democratic primary you have to win two of three groups: white liberals, white women, and people of color (really, just African American women statistically). Nothing else matters.

[phonics]

To win a Democratic primary you have to win two of three groups: white liberals, white women, and people of color (really, just African American women statistically). Nothing else matters.

You can't just keep electing people because women want to bang them, which seems Beto's only strength on a national level.

[mikem]

I’m merely talking about the demographic make up of the base. It isn’t white men. The university liberal crowd is only a third. You can’t win in the south if you can’t appeal to a 30-40 year old African American woman.

Women will vote for Warren or Harris or Hillary and they don’t want to fuck them. Doug Jones can do that with African American women in Alabama and nobody wants to fuck him.

Beto’s popularity among Democrats isn’t simply because he is young and handsome and knows how to do an entire marketing campaign in Texas around Whataburger. He is a genuinely good retail politician that can pull of this sort of semi-corny improvised moment that D’s go all warm and fuzzy:

youtube.com/watch?v=lAw9eXXVwfM

[Pepe]

Beto's latino turnout was pretty bad considering his position, no?

He beat a Mexican American woman in the primary. The $10,000 she raised for campaigning were no match for Beto's brilliance (and $9 million.)

[phonics]

I’m merely talking about the demographic make up of the base. It isn’t white men. The university liberal crowd is only a third. You can’t win in the south if you can’t appeal to a 30-40 year old African American woman.

Women will vote for Warren or Harris or Hillary and they don’t want to fuck them.

Yeah that was a bit of a dig at Obama being milquetoast. Beto should run for Corker or Cornyns senate seat not president. Not yet.

I'd like Warren/Gillum in a perfect world.

[bruhnaldo]

I'd like Warren/Gillum in a perfect world.

I don't understand the Warren thing. Seems like suicide for the party but maybe I'm missing it.

[Lewis]

The Donald has been bang on it on Twitter these past couple of days. Mate, if you still aren't finding it all hilarious then there is something wrong with you.

[Pepe]

I would definitely enjoy months of Republicans lolling at her DNA results.

[Lewis]

Good to see everyone bealing about America getting out of a warzone as well.

[phonics]

I don't understand the Warren thing. Seems like suicide for the party but maybe I'm missing it.

Search Warren Wells Fargo.

[Pepe]

Don't forget criminal justice reform.

[phonics]

Don't forget criminal justice reform.

Getting Kim Kardasshian to present that thing to him was the smartest thing the people in charge of that ever did. Genius.

[mikem]

Is the getting out of a war zone the same as when he got North Korea to denuclearize? Or like when we built the wall? Or like the transgender ban in the military? Or like the rising stock market? Or like the repeal of Obamacare? Or like the defeat of ISIS that lasted until his next tweet?

Since the next Sec Def is likely to be atom Cotton, I’ll believe we are not going into war when the term is up. He just claims we do shit. When he follows up, I’ll pay attention.

[bruhnaldo]

Kim :drool:

I'm reading about this Warren-Wells Fargo stuff as well. Good on her for taking those crooks on, I'll give her that.

[Lewis]

I know that, but the way the media twats are carrying on you would think James Mattis was the only thing standing in the way of you becoming an absolute monarchy.

[bruhnaldo]

Mattis resigning had me SHOOK yesterday I won't lie.

Mad Dog felt like the only guy in the whole cabinet with any sense.

[mikem]

Oh it is nonsense. And since your coverage of us is filtered through the Washington blob is may be worse than ours.

Having been deployed to protect the Kurds after Desert Storm the shit with the Kurds is one of the few things that actually pisses me off about him. Mostly, I just get annoyed that not a single member of the US media can begin a question with “how?”

[phonics]

Oh it is nonsense. And since your coverage of us is filtered through the Washington blob is may be worse than ours.

Having been deployed to protect the Kurds after Desert Storm the shit with the Kurds is one of the few things that actually pisses me off about him. Mostly, I just get annoyed that not a single member of the US media can begin a question with “how?”

For all the protections that the US press corps has enshrined to them, they aren't half absolute dog shit at holding anyone to account. Our softball interviews would be considered a grilling in comparison.

[Lewis]

1076239448461987841

:lol:

Good luck Pepe you mug.

[phonics]

I can't believe that Trump is so shit at his job I'm annoyed at him removing troops from Syria.

[Pepe]

I'll just sneak in while the government is shut down.

[Shindig]

1. Hire Mexican labour to build it.
2. Incorporate doors into the design so the Mexican workforce can paint both sides.
3. Take forever to build it.
4. Profit ... and friendship.

[mikem]

Yeah that was a bit of a dig at Obama being milquetoast. Beto should run for Corker or Cornyns senate seat not president. Not yet.

I'd like Warren/Gillum in a perfect world.

I don’t really care who the nominee is but it would be horrible if we had another president who lost a senate race prior to running for president. That last one we had who lost two in a row without ever winning one? Terrible. What was his name? Liked the theater .... Abe something. Can’t remember, they never made a mark on the place.

[Bernanke]

The Mueller investigation is now in possession of a nude selfie which is a threat to US national security.

1078395251025461248

[Mazuuurk]

Came across this article which is pretty good:

https://narativ.org/2019/01/02/salvator-mundi-art-of-the-deal-the-lost-davinci/?fbclid=IwAR1LYL2k9B2kfSJpf3RkCZqsO1DQyZKki2hpdnJw 0oVuiB_eYMRRTx5sK5c

As usual with American News articles, there's no way of verifying any authenticity, but still to me it seems legit.


It's a little harrowing all of it really. Makings of some Thriller blockbusters if I ever saw one (maybe that's The Don's end game at the end of the day!).

[Bernanke]

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/D5RunlW8Suguz4TsYWUkW2DFgIQ=/0x0:631x323/920x0/filters:focal(0x0:631x323):format(webp):no_upscale ()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/13691651/1.jpg

(I paid)

[John]

There's a lot going on there. 'Hamberders' is quality.

The picture of him leering over the fast food buffet is great.

[Disco]

Quite apart from somehow bragging about his country not working, they must have been stone cold.

[Byron]

Even better when you consider that they had candles lit as if it was a 5 course meal.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It's done a great service in exposing the fast food snobs of the world.

[Spikey M]

Quite apart from somehow bragging about his country not working, they must have been stone cold.

There's a fair bit of hot air on that room.

[bruhnaldo]

I'm gonna need the title edited to reflect our country's new and proper spelling of "Hamberders" thanks.

[Lewis]

The picture of him leering over the fast food buffet is great.

It has to be up there with the great American images.

[Pepe]

You will never find an image more representative of the country.

[Shindig]

God, there's like 15 of them. All with slightly different facial expressions and arms outstretched. It's like he wants to fuck it all.

[Henry]

Pelosi just threatened Trump's ability to make his State of the Union speech due to the shutdown, which is his largest TV opportunity of the year. Smart move.

[Pepe]

He'll just live-Tweet it.

[Henry]

He'll just live-Tweet it.

It has to be before Congress.

[Pepe]

Surely they have laptops.

[Spikey M]

Aren’t most of them about 104?

[Lewis]

https://media.newyorker.com/photos/5c3e10b2f92c694343cc71b9/4:3/w_960,c_limit/Rosner-Fast-Food-Trump.jpg

:lol:

[Lewis]

lol at all the articles/wank about it. I bet the football lads loved it.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I didn't know there were that many people in the world who liked Filet O'Fish, let alone that rugby football fifteen.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Vegetarians aren't a fan of hamberders.

[Yevrah]

I've been on a news blackout due to work for the last few days, what's the significance of that Trump photo/why is he surrounded by fast food?

[Shindig]

Due to the shutdown, they couldn't get proper catering. This was Trump's alternative.

[Mazuuurk]

Vegetarians aren't a fan of hamberders.

They aren't fans of Filet-o-Fish either.

[Kikó]

(he paid)

[Jimmy Floyd]

Only just noticed (I think) Abe Lincoln behind him thinking about the ethics of doing a runner.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

They aren't fans of Filet-o-Fish either.

Most vegetarians are pescetarians anyway, simmer down sweetheart.

[John]

Most? Don't talk shite.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

You're slipping John, took you long enough.

[Spikey M]

Zero vegetarians are pescatarians. Pescatarians are though.

[phonics]

This discussion...

https://www.dailydot.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Scott-Walker-Venn-diagram-e1544917045334-1024x512.png

[John]

https://splinternews.com/video/3626332?utm_medium=sharefromsite&utm_source=Splinter&jwsource=cl

Obviously a very sad situation for old mate with the drum, but the MAGA idiots chanting 'Build the Wall' at a Native American is just great.

[Pepe]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npX801xLSFY

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DxUrUStXgAE0o3U.jpg

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Screen-Shot-2019-01-20-at-10.28.39-AM.png

[Lewis]

Its hard not to think the FAKE NEWS narrative is onto something when childish shite like that - however it started - makes the BBC website whilst nobody wants to discuss the anti-Semitism over at the Ladies Parade. Shite by omission, if you will.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

The smug American teen prick is such a Mert wannabe.

[Lewis]

We're all Mert wannabes.

[Pepe]

Its hard not to think the FAKE NEWS narrative is onto something when childish shite like that - however it started - makes the BBC website whilst nobody wants to discuss the anti-Semitism over at the Ladies Parade. Shite by omission, if you will.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DxRqDy-XQAEadqV.jpg:large

[Lewis]

That looks like a gay Krang.

[Mazuuurk]

Most vegetarians are pescetarians anyway, simmer down sweetheart.

Not to go all Pavel here, but if they are vegetarians they are vegetarians, and they don't eat fish. If they are pescatarians, they do eat fish.

There are a lot of people who say they are one thing but are in fact another, of course. But you have some experience in that domain I reckon.

[Disco]

Burn.

[bruhnaldo]

That was a long and winding road to get to a "you got duped by a random cam girl" joke but I certainly enjoyed the scenic tour nonetheless.

[ItalAussie]

It's interesting to see how Trump functions (or fails to do so) when the opposition actually has a modicum of leverage.

He has no idea how to deal with it. Also, if the Democrats had a marketing bone in their body, they'd have called the closedown "the Trump Tantrum" at every opportunity.

[mugbull]

But wasn't the "agreement" they just reached that he'd reopen for 3 weeks, they'd do some faux posturing on the wall, and assuming that no further deal is reached, he'd invoke the emergency clause and get his money anyway? This seems like a way for him to get the wall he wants while appearing somewhat conciliatory

[Lewis]

Using that emergency procedure seems like it would set the dumbest and most counter-productive precedent imaginable. Which I suppose means he will do it.

[phonics]

Looking forward to it. Can’t wait for the democrats to declare healthcare and climate change a national emergency.

[Queenslander]

And gun violence.

[Pepe]

And trans rights.

[ItalAussie]

The Democrats should hire a company to do a proper financial analysis of "The Wall", and spell out exactly what it would cost, both initially and in ongoing costs.

Bring up some numbers, to show how ludicrous the amount will be.

[niko_cee]

I'm not really sure people are swayable on the issue, and I'm doubly not sure the way to try would be financial analysis or economic forecasting, for various reasons, some of them legit.

[Shindig]

Even with the finances, there's a counter the Republicans can do about immigration, potential impact on crime and job creation.

[Pepe]

Detailed numbers won't convince anyone of anything.

[Lewis]

I don't know why you wouldn't just build it as a Democrat. He gets his wall, or lame steel barrier, and then what... You have neutralised his main thing and next electoral attack line forever at relatively little cost. What does he campaign on now? Meanwhile, you make yourselves at least look like you care about border security.

[Shindig]

And if the moan brigade still continue after the wall's up, turn it into a tourist attraction and make bank off that.

[phonics]

I don't know why you wouldn't just build it as a Democrat. He gets his wall, or lame steel barrier, and then what... You have neutralised his main thing and next electoral attack line forever at relatively little cost. What does he campaign on now? Meanwhile, you make yourselves at least look like you care about border security.

Because he had literally one issue. An issue that less than 20% of the country agree with and you'd have conceded it. Everything else he's done is GOP by numbers.

Trump doesn't deal in policy, he deals in optics. This whole thing is due to his TV shows calling him a pussy.

[mugbull]

I don’t think the wall is as “groundbreakingly illiberal” an idea as a lot of people do, nor is it actually that expensive, all things considered...but my fucking god, I want to see him try and fail over and over again to make it happen

[Pepe]

The Wall is, like every single thing in this country, just a political symbol. No one cares about its cost, or its effectiveness, or its morality, or whatever.

[Giggles]

The Wall is, like every single thing in this country, just a political symbol. No one cares about its cost, or its effectiveness, or its morality, or whatever.

America's Brexit. If you can keep out even one brown forrin then everything else is worth it.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

As if the wall will even keep the Mexicans out.

[Lewis]

If the case against a wall is that it won't actually work he should just ask for the money to be spent on more active border policing.

[mikem]

The Wall is, like every single thing in this country, just a political symbol. No one cares about its cost, or its effectiveness, or its morality, or whatever.

Basic reality of US politics in a world with highly competitive parties (which is relatively new). No incentive to compromise if you think the next election allows you to win and set the agenda. It is extraordinarily difficult to pass any major legislation in the US setup. The president’s top declared priorities are what will be resisted at all costs. Obama got the ACA but it cost him everything else legislatively, including 1,000 local seats nationwide. Trump got neither of his top two legislative priorities. What does pass? Taxes (which wasn’t a declared presidential goal), criminal justice reform, defense, and several bills on opioids.

Bipartisanship occurs either when one party is discredited or marginalized by an exogenous shock like World Wars, Civil War, or a Great Depression. Then they compromise to get whatever because November won’t solve it. Or they compromise on non-declared targets, or get temporary / one off victories that set up your eventual defeat.

[ItalAussie]

Detailed numbers won't convince anyone of anything.

I'm not actually expecting it to. But what it does mean is that it should force Trump to ask for slightly more money, making it easier to knock him back. Currently, the best Republican argument is that 5.7 billion is basically nothing in the big scheme of things. If the Democrats come out and say "we took it seriously, costed it properly, and came up with 150 billion", then next time Trump might have to put in, say, 30 billion so as not to look utterly stupid. But it's easier to treat 30 billion as an outrageous cost than it is five.

It's 100% political gamesmanship, but I reckon they could land it.

[phonics]

I'm not actually expecting it to. But what it does mean is that it should force Trump to ask for slightly more money, making it easier to knock him back. Currently, the best Republican argument is that 5.7 billion is basically nothing in the big scheme of things. If the Democrats come out and say "we took it seriously, costed it properly, and came up with 150 billion", then next time Trump might have to put in, say, 30 billion so as not to look utterly stupid. But it's easier to treat 30 billion as an outrageous cost than it is five.

It's 100% political gamesmanship, but I reckon they could land it.

I love how you're trying to approach 2019 in American Politics with the idea of 'out logicing' a party that believes the best protection against guns is more guns, abortion is murder, healthcare is a privilege not a right and that climate change isn't real but god is.

That's just the party, the actual base thinks everyone with a (D) next to their name is a satan-worshipping paedophile ordering 'cheese pizza' at Comet Ping Pong. And that's the normal ones who don't think QAnon is real.

You've completely lost sight of what's going on. The Democrats have asked what the 5.7 billion he asked for is for and no-one can say, it's just a number they made up. Now you want to put together an actual shopping list for them and expect them not to take hostages until they get literally everything you listed out?

Have you not been following the news for like... 12 years?

[bruhnaldo]

How do ya'll feel about this bit in New York that apparently says you can abort a baby up until it's born?

[bruhnaldo]

Personally I think that's a fucking madness.

[phonics]

Let's have a link? Because I'm going to go ahead and say they don't allow you to choose to kill the baby upon pumping it out.

[Pepe]

Many states in the US do allow late-term abortion, which I agree is 'fucking madness.' Therein lies the beauty of the whole federal shtick.

[bruhnaldo]

To be honest any story I've tried to find off a quick google seems slanted one way or the other, I would suggest googling "New York reproductive health act" and coming to your own conclusion.

From what I understand, it basically makes it so a pregnancy can be terminated basically up until birth, but maybe I don't understand it myself who knows.

In interest of fairness, my position on abortion has always been something around "I sure fucking hate that and wish all babies could be born and at least given a chance with or without their biological parents" but I also don't really think the government should be the one who makes that choice. But I also really really hate the idea of an abortion.

[phonics]

From what I understand, it basically makes it so a pregnancy can be terminated basically up until birth, but maybe I don't understand it myself who knows.

Isn't that only in cases when delivering the baby would likely result in the death of the mother?

If it's the one I'm looking at it was written in 2013 and is still in the senate health comittee, it hasn't even got scheduled date to be debated on the floor, let alone voted on. I think 8.5 month pregnant women desperate to clawhammer a foetus will have to go to term.

edit: Had a read of the bill, yeah it's allowed when either the mother or the child were unlikely to survive delivery. Seems reasonable to me?

https://i.imgur.com/VFezupJ.png

[Pepe]

https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/nj/2015/1/21/a-look-at-late-term-abortion/abortion-restrix-2000.png

EDIT:

Massive version:

https://www.nationaljournal.com/media/media/2015/10/27/Abortion-restrix-2000.png

[Pepe]

edit: Had a read of the bill, yeah it's allowed when either the mother or the child were unlikely to survive delivery. Seems reasonable to me?

It does. Except the 'life or health' part. 'Health' is wide open to be exploited.

[phonics]

It does. Except the 'life or health' part. 'Health' is wide open to be exploited.

But take it out and "There's a 2% chance it'll go fine and a 98% chance you're in a coma for the rest of your life." means you're taking it to term.

[bruhnaldo]

I certainly could understand protecting the life of the mother tbf.

[Pepe]

But take it out and "There's a 2% chance it'll go fine and a 98% chance you're in a coma for the rest of your life." means you're taking it to term.

Of course. Laws always tend to fail on the edge cases. It could still be worded in a far more specific way than 'health,' even though I assume that most doctors would show good judgement in most cases.

[phonics]

Of course. Laws always tend to fail on the edge cases. It could still be worded in a far more specific way than 'health,' even though I assume that most doctors would show good judgement in most cases.

The bill that I quoted is 6 pages from 2013. I presume the one that leaves comittee on will be slightly more detailed.

[mikem]

Are non-medical late term abortions even a thing? Everything about abortion should at least feel messy. I’ll add people who quite literally can never be on the receiving end of a law being so sure they should get to decide how it is written or applied to the list of things that should make us all a bit less sure of things.

[Pepe]

Are non-medical late term abortions even a thing?

An extremely low percent of all abortions, iirc.

[mikem]

Having three kids I just find the whole concept of late term “abortion misuse” odd. Who is out there going through 6-8 months of pregnancy and then terminating on a lark? I’d imagine a near totality of the reasons, medical or otherwise, are serious and not undertaken lightly. A vague law that gives doctors and mothers the most leeway in cases that are almost certainly tragic is probably best.

[Pepe]

As long as we apply the 'I'm sure they had good reasons' clause to every law, I'm cool with that.

[Pepe]

The French way works for me:


legal on demand up to 12 weeks after conception (14 weeks after the last menstrual period). Abortions at later stages of pregnancy are allowed if two physicians certify that the abortion will be done to prevent grave permanent injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman; a risk to the life of the pregnant woman; or that the child will suffer from a particularly severe illness recognized as incurable.

[Lewis]

They will just interpret 'health' as widely as possible, up to and including stretch marks potentially making you a bit sad, which is essentially how our system works. Not that I am against that. But that is how it will work.

[Pepe]

Exactly, at which point why have a law in the first place? Especially in a country where several states have no restrictions already.

[phonics]

They will just interpret 'health' as widely as possible, up to and including stretch marks potentially making you a bit sad, which is essentially how our system works. Not that I am against that. But that is how it will work.

Shut the fuck up you emotional husk. Who is carrying a baby for 6 months and then deciding to abort for stretch marks?

[bruhnaldo]

I think the point is more that people in this country claim just about any nonsensical reason to do anything and then tell you that you're being harsh/cold when you try to call them on it, rather than a real-deal application.

Like when people get marijuana cards they just say shit like "I have a bit of anxiety I guess" and voila, they are free to purchase weed legally.

[mikem]

Yes, we really need to expend the power of the federal government because it is highly likely that people are going to get pregnant once every couple of years and decide to abort in the seventh month. Is this a one time crime or a repeated offense?

We need to step in and discourage that shit. Maybe mandatory minimums to stop people getting stretch mark abortions and the like because it is so common. Federal sentencing guidelines cause that always works out so well.

Not every crime need be prosecuted.

[Lewis]

Shut the fuck up you emotional husk. Who is carrying a baby for 6 months and then deciding to abort for stretch marks?

More than likely nobody.

[Pepe]

Yes, we really need to expend the power of the federal government because it is highly likely that people are going to get pregnant once every couple of years and decide to abort in the seventh month. Is this a one time crime or a repeated offense?

We need to step in and discourage that shit. Maybe mandatory minimums to stop people getting stretch mark abortions and the like because it is so common. Federal sentencing guidelines cause that always works out so well.

Not every crime need be prosecuted.

Right now the "power of the federal government" is being spent on a law that claims to set limits but, in the way that it is written, doesn't*. Maybe that "power" must have been "spent" somewhere else, instead of creating a non-law.

*Based on that thing phonics posted. I have no idea, nor do I care, what is actually going on with that particular bill.

[randomlegend]

They will just interpret 'health' as widely as possible, up to and including stretch marks potentially making you a bit sad, which is essentially how our system works. Not that I am against that. But that is how it will work.

Our system works on the basis that carrying a baby is inherently riskier than not carrying a baby, and therefore an abortion can always be justified on the health grounds (I forget the exact wording) option on the form.

[Pepe]

I think the point is more that people in this country claim just about any nonsensical reason to do anything and then tell you that you're being harsh/cold when you try to call them on it, rather than a real-deal application.

Like when people get marijuana cards they just say shit like "I have a bit of anxiety I guess" and voila, they are free to purchase weed legally.

The point is that, if you are going to write a law, do it properly. Creating a law that is basically a giant loophole makes no sense.

We can also apply the very contemporary INEQUALITY paradigm to it. A poor woman will go to a doctor, he will say your health is not really in danger, and she will be screwed. Lewis's rich woman will worry about her stretch marks, will be told no, will get a lawyer, and get her abortion. because shit law-writing

[Pepe]

Our system works on the basis that carrying a baby is inherently riskier than not carrying a baby, and therefore an abortion can always be justified on the health grounds (I forget the exact wording) option on the form.

Example of a shit law right there.

[phonics]

Right now the "power of the federal government" is being spent on a law that claims to set limits but, in the way that it is written, doesn't*. Maybe that "power" must have been "spent" somewhere else, instead of creating a non-law.

*Based on that thing phonics posted. I have no idea, nor do I care, what is actually going on with that particular bill.

Well the power of the federal government isn't being spent on it because it's in the New York state senate and I will say again, has been in committee since 2013 and has not left it.

@bruhnaldo (https://www.thethirdhalf.co.uk/member.php?u=19), can I ask where you saw this story or how you came to be aware of it? Just people chatting irl or was it online?


Example of a shit law right there.

Or a law that's suitably broad to allow the individuals involved with specialist knowledge of that specific case the ability to navigate it to the best of their ability or should we have set of rigid laws and have every decision decided by a judge who is an expert in law not in medicine?

I understand the need for specific laws in regulatory/financial/safety cases etc. but what does everyone involved in the case of abortion have to gain? To the best of my knowledge, there aren't people out there just really passionate about pushing unborn fetuses out of desperate women.

[Pepe]

Twitter I bet.