U.S. Presidential Election 2016 (Sponsored by Betty Croker's Hamburger Helper)

[Pepe]

It really is a brilliant country.

[ItalAussie]

Lewis mentioned the real logical endpoint on the previous page, with renaming the country because Amerigo Vespucci trafficked in slaves.

I think there's a difference between "trafficked in slaves" and "engaged in a war of secession". For better or for worse, the Confederacy engaged in a war against the US and they lost.

"Trafficked in slaves" is something to think about, and the US can't erase its history. But it doesn't have to laud its enemies, either. The Confederacy were enemies of the United States.

[John]

There's a vast difference between the two, but once all the confederate monuments have been torn down it'll be on to the next one and they'll start tearing down monuments to something else seen as representing slavery or slavers. As Mert said in an unusually lucid moment, the statues in some cases represent people who were just fighting for what they saw as their homeland, they can't all have been slave owners or the war would have been over in half an hour.

They should take the German approach and just rededicate any monument which isn't a statue of a recognisable person.

[Lewis]

Most Native American tribes fought with Britain against the Thirteen Colonies (and forever after), so their casinos and historic sites want torching.

[Jimmy Floyd]

If the Americans start taking any sort of logical approach to their own history it will crumble very quickly. Might as well keep up the utter bullshit that keeps the show on the road.

[Spikey M]

In fairness, opposing Nazism isn't the acid test for being right. I mean, Stalin wasn't exactly Gandhi.

[Offshore Toon]

Even Gandhi wasn't exactly Gandhi.

[John]

Not opposing Nazism is a pretty reliable indicator that you're wrong though.

Trump's latest press conference is a thing of deranged majesty. Apparently everyone said his pitiful 'hatred on many sides' statement from the weekend was 'beautiful', despite the fact that the event at which he was currently speaking was only arranged because everyone had emphatically said the opposite. He's pushing the limits of just how much someone can lie at this point, about ninety percent of what he says is just obvious bullshit.

[Spikey M]

Oh Trump has handled this terribly (massive surprise), I just find it a bit lol that people are assuming the people protesting against the Nazi's aren't wrong too. In fact, The same people crying about racist beatings have been chuckling about some Nazi bell end getting a punch.

The far right have caused this and are acting, well, as expected. The far left have responded like fucking idiots, again, as expected.

[Kikó]

Do fuck off. If you think you should be allowed to spread racist messages without retribution then you're an absolute idiot.

[Magic]

It's like Harold has been elected leader of the free world.

We've regressed by about a hundred years. Unreal.

[Jimmy Floyd]

We haven't. They have.

[Magic]

Collectively, politically I think we have. Humans are just cunts.

[phonics]

Oh Trump has handled this terribly (massive surprise), I just find it a bit lol that people are assuming the people protesting against the Nazi's aren't wrong too. In fact, The same people crying about racist beatings have been chuckling about some Nazi bell end getting a punch.

The far right have caused this and are acting, well, as expected. The far left have responded like fucking idiots, again, as expected.

If your platform involves 'not being mean to the Nazis', get fucked.

http://www.aljazeera.com/mritems/Images/2016/8/2/67e9574fa35c41029ff71e30d5f60afa_6.jpg

[Magic]

Do you have any placards of the times when people stopped the Islamofascist marches?

Oh wait...:harold:

[phonics]

What Islamifascist marches?

[Magic]

Don't know specific ones but there have been a few.

[phonics]

Don't know specific ones but there have been a few.

Strong contribution then. The closest thing I can think of is the Erdogan rallies in Germany and Holland pre-constitutional vote. Which were banned.

[Magic]

Sorry I don't keep them in my calendar. There's no point denying there haven't been any.

[phonics]

Yet you can't think of a single example. I'm not denying their existence, you can't show they do, it's different.

[Magic]

There was a few in Luton on that BBC3 programme at least.

[phonics]

'that BBC3 programme'

cheers mate. Really helping here.

[John]

Don't know specific ones but there have been a few.

Alright, Trump. Had no idea you were a member.


Sorry I don't keep them in my calendar. There's no point denying there haven't been any.

Yet denying there haven't been any is exactly what you're doing.

[Magic]

'that BBC3 programme'

cheers mate. Really helping here.

Ok.

[Lewis]

The Battle of Cable Street was organised and led by the Communist Party of Great Britain, who, three years later, stopped 'being mean to Nazis' on the orders of the even more murderous Soviet Union. Not a great example.

[phonics]

Considering I'm not a communist, it seems a perfectly fine example. I could reach for the people who shot and killed KKK members in public only for there to be 'no witnesses' to it if that's better?

[niko_cee]

If you think you should be allowed to spread racist messages without retribution then you're an absolute idiot.

I'm no constitutional expert, but isn't this what the first amendment is sort of all about?

[John Arne]

Considering I'm not a communist, it seems a perfectly fine example. I could reach for the people who shot and killed KKK members in public only for there to be 'no witnesses' to it if that's better?

Wait, are you saying any marches that counter your ideology should be banned? Would you support the right for a Anti-LGBT group to march through London?

[phonics]

Wait, are you saying any marches that counter your ideology should be banned? Would you support the right for a Anti-LGBT group to march through London?

Depends what their anti-LGBT point is. Having an anti-gay marriage march is fine, having an anti-gay existence march isn't.

Here's direct quotes from the manifesto of the organisers of the rally in Charlottesville


Following this theme, VA maintains that America “is to be a nation exclusively for the White American peoples who out of the barren hills, empty plains, and vast mountains forged the most powerful nation to ever have existed.”

Originally VA was firmly in the alt-right hemisphere with focus on white identity. At that time the group was called American Vanguard. However, the VA has increasingly demonstrated a neo-Nazi ideology. In one iteration of their manifesto, posted in February 2017, the VA explained that America was built on the foundation of White Europeans, and that the glory of the Aryan nation must be recaptured. VA has also stressed the need for the nation to be free of the influence of the international Jews. In July 2017, VA tweeted, “Those behind the subversive elements eroding our culture often have something in common. Jewish influence is prevalent, invasive, dangerous.”

[John]

Considering I'm not a communist, it seems a perfectly fine example. I could reach for the people who shot and killed KKK members in public only for there to be 'no witnesses' to it if that's better?

What does you not being communist have to do with anything.

You posted that image as a counter to Spikey saying that the people opposing the Nazis aren't necessarily great either. If the people opposing that march turned out to be huge twats themselves then you're making his point for him, and if part of their platform in future did turn out to involve 'not being mean to Nazis', as Lewis says, then it runs counter to your own point too.

All in all, not a great example.

[Lewis]

Considering I'm not a communist, it seems a perfectly fine example. I could reach for the people who shot and killed KKK members in public only for there to be 'no witnesses' to it if that's better?

Abandoning the rule of law and rewarding murder would serve as a pretty watertight definition of political extremism (not to mention terrorism), which doesn't do much for any claims you might make to moral authority.

[Spikey M]

If your platform involves 'not being mean to the Nazis', get fucked.

http://www.aljazeera.com/mritems/Images/2016/8/2/67e9574fa35c41029ff71e30d5f60afa_6.jpg

I'm not arsed about a Nazi getting a punch, actually, fuck that - I'm all for it. I'm just equally for the far left getting a boot in their gender neutral private parts.

Actually, that's pretty much what Trump should have said.

[Kikó]

I'm no constitutional expert, but isn't this what the first amendment is sort of all about?

Probably but I think if you have a group of people who have a radical, extreme and offensive message then they can't expect people not to be offended and counter protest.

[niko_cee]

Yeah, fine, but that's not what 'retribution' sounds like.

[Spikey M]

Probably but I think if you have a group of people who have a radical, extreme and offensive message then they can't expect people not to be offended and counter protest.

It's just that 'freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences' thing again, isn't it?

[Kikó]

Yeah, fine, but that's not what 'retribution' sounds like.

Fake news.

[phonics]

http://i.imgur.com/W5cyPah.png

lol

[Spikey M]

Define Snowflake.

[Byron]

It appears ol' Donny has been up to his usual distraction tactics anyway as it appears this latest bout of idiocy is to ensure people aren't talking about the subpoenas served to him by Mueller in his role as Trump the CEO.

http://ir.net/news/politics/126924/report-mueller-served-trump-subpoena-day-prior-racist-rant/

[phonics]

Considering the only source for that is a guy on Twitter who seems to be a fucking weirdo that does weed music video shoots with models. I'm gonna take that one with a pinch of salt.

897167153270407168

I did a bit of googling and he seems like to have the reputation as a lying creep that harrasses people in web marketing. Here's a post from 2012: http://www.wickedfire.com/shooting-the-shit/128013-pace-lattin-scammer-liar-cheat-fraud.html

Yeah I'm going to ignore him as a source.

edit: I also find it weird that the journalist who wrote up the story seems to have written hundreds of articles but isn't on Twitter despite finding the story there.

[John Arne]

Depends what their anti-LGBT point is. Having an anti-gay marriage march is fine, having an anti-gay existence march isn't.


Maybe I'm just more liberal and tolerant than you ( :) ), but stopping people from expressing their views (in a controlled and approved march), no matter how repugnant their views may be, just doesn't sit right with me.

It may sound a bit simplified, but the old "sticks and stones...." works for me. Protest and march all you like - but until you actually start impeding folks from being able to live their own life - do what you want.

I'm trying to think of something that I would be against.... I can't think of anything - maybe my opinion would change if something closer to home happened.

[Disco]

What about the Westboro mentals who protest at soldiers funerals and call them 'fags' etc.

[John Arne]

If they have applied for a permit to march or protest near by, and it was granted - fine. I would expect, however, that a permit was not granted for the march to take place in the graveyard.

EDIT: To be clear, I would think that they are massive cunts for doing so - but if that's what they believe, who am I to tell them what they should or should not be thinking.

[Spikey M]

What about the Westboro mentals who protest at soldiers funerals and call them 'fags' etc.

It has to be allowed if you're going down the free speech route. Otherwise you're left with the right to voice popular/government opinion.

[Kikó]

If they incite violence and hatred then they are rightly arrested.

[Spikey M]

Violence, sure. Hatred, no. I'm struggling to think of a single protest that doesn't invite hatred towards a group of some description

[GS]

Are protests branding people 'Tory scum' acceptable?

[Spikey M]

Not by Keeks standard, clearly.

[Kikó]

Tory's are scum so not sure what's the issue.

[Kikó]

I think simply :
If your march is against an injustice (perceived or actual) then it's a legitimate march
If your march is against a group or type of people e.g. Jews, Gays or Irish then you're likely to be inciting violence and/or hatred to a group of people(s)

[phonics]

If the aim of your speech is to impugn the rights of others to exist then I'm not particularly interested in you asserting that your right is more important than theirs and therefore must be heard.

[Lewis]

That would have interesting implications for talking about abortion.

[Spikey M]

That completely depends on how you frame the march. It's loophole central.

The EDL march(ed?) against injustices against the British public. Trying to preserve a way of life, defending women's rights, etc. Presumably they are allowed to do so?

Edit: @kiko

[phonics]

I'm not talking about the government by the way (this rally was approved by the authorities) I'm just talking about individual people taking actions into their own hands. As GS says, Tories may be scum but aggression is far too much for that. Feel free to punch a Nazi though.

[Kikó]

I've reconsidered. If the police approve your march then as long as you stay within the law, you can protest.

And that's my final decision.

[Spikey M]

We'll, the Police won't use that to their own advantage at all.

[Kikó]

It's what they do today tbfh. Well see.

[John Arne]

It's what they do today tbfh. Well see.

Wait.... what are you planning?

[phonics]

I like how the same auto correct owned both Spikey and Kiko in consecutive posts the opposite way.

[Spikey M]

We'll, well see about that.

[Pepe]

Apparently there will be a protest nearby because a street is called Confederate Dr.

[John]

It'll be interesting if they ever win the Confederations Cup. The national schism will probably end the place.

[Kikó]

I like how the same auto correct owned both Spikey and Kiko in consecutive posts the opposite way.

Dats the joke.

[phonics]

Damn, it is I, who is the owned one.

[bruhnaldo]

I've enjoyed all of the blue tick whoppers posting Second World War pictures with 'lol what about these anti-Nazis?' Who knew the British Empire had so many fans?

The best one I saw was someone posted one of these and captioned "THE ORIGINAL ARTIFA" ffs.

[Spikey M]

I was also in on the joke.

[bruhnaldo]

'that BBC3 programme'

cheers mate. Really helping here.

FWIW I'm assuming he means the one everyone got upset with years after the fact where one of the guys who ran around knifing folks in London was featured as a "jihadist" but no one thought to keep tabs on or something of the like.

[Spikey M]

I'm pretty sure he means 2 Pints of Lager and a Packet of Crisps.

[Spoonsky]

I went to the "anti-racist" rally in Salt Lake. The antifa are pretty lol, walking purposefully around in their leather jackets, faces covered in bandanas and carrying baseball bats. Meanwhile not an actual nazi to be seen, unless you count the guy on the corner with a tiny cardboard 'TRUMP' sign listening to earbuds.

[John]

Bannon out, and another two of Trump's panels have shut down due to everyone resigning.

[Disco]

I wonder how much of his term he's actually going to get through.

[bruhnaldo]

If he makes it one full year I'd be surprised.

It's all fucked. I'm just hoping President Pence actually gets some shit accomplished.

[John]

It must be crap realising you were taken in by an incredibly stupid and obvious conman.

[bruhnaldo]

Not really. It's politics. Everyone lies. I had my reasons for voting for him and none of them had anything to do with being a racist piece of shit. It's a shame that none of the things I'd hoped could happen will actually happen but they wouldn't have happened under Clinton either so it's of no loss to me.

[Pepe]

What were you hoping would happen?

[bruhnaldo]

And besides, with Pence at least there's a chance for some actual conservative policies to be implemented. All of the #NeverTrump fucks who refuse to accomplish anything in Congress will get back in line and maybe the last year of the Republican monopoly will see some real good done in this country.

I mean I don't have high hopes but the best I can hope for is Pence swings the pendulum back toward the center, gets some important shit like immigration reform and the repealing of Obamacare across the line.

Then, when the DNC inevitably gets their shit together and concedes their current strategy isn't working, maybe they'll put up a more centrist candidate that will actually work across party lines to get shit done.

Or maybe the GOP will because Pence won't seek (a 2nd?) term (not sure how you'd word that specifically if he was only in office for a few years).

I really don't know what to make of it to be quite honest but I can tell you I don't feel any kinda way about how I voted initially and to be very honest I would still much rather abstain than vote for Hillary over Donald.

[Pepe]

More 'centrist' than Clinton. :harold:

[Pepe]

What kind of immigration reform would you like? What should replace Obamacare?

[bruhnaldo]

What were you hoping would happen?

They'd fix immigration in the sense that those who are currently here would be given a more straight-forward route to legal immigration and those who wish to come have the same.

I'm of the belief that while I realize that illegal immigrants are simply trying to make a life for themselves that their labor is a double edged sword.

On one hand, you have the people who are taking advantage of their status and paying them much lower than they should. If immigrants had easier legal recourse that they could take to become citizens, they'd be able to be protected under our labor laws and not taken advantage of.

On the other hand, illegal immigrants aren't privy to the same processes that a citizen would go thru to get employment. Where some born and raised Americans aren't considered because of a criminal history, I'd imagine it's just about impossible to gauge the record of these folks. Not necessarily "THEY TAKIN OUR JAWBZZZZ" but I don't really think it's fair that our citizens have to go thru these processes and others do not.

Nevermind the amount of money that is sent out of the country to family members back home that is basically untaxed. Tax money that could be used to fund all of these social services that many liberals constantly yearn for.

I wouldn't want to see families broken up and things like that, but I think there's a lot of good in revamping the entire immigration process and I just kinda assumed that Trump's BUILD THE WALL rhetoric would get scaled back considering the give-and-take nature of politics and the Republican monopoly (idk if that's the right word) on government would see the U.S. implement less extreme measures.

Other than that I wanted Obamacare to get repealed because it's the dumbest fucking thing on the planet (and I've waxed poetic on that in here so I don't know that I have to rehash all that).

[bruhnaldo]

More 'centrist' than Clinton. :harold:

Clinton is a fucking hack and nothing she says should ever be trusted.

[Lewis]

What kind of immigration reform would you like? What should replace Obamacare?

Chucking you out MATE.

[Pepe]

Did any of the Republican candidates suggest a path to citizenship for current illegal immigrants? I can't recall any of them doing so. Trump most definitely didn't, so I don't know why anyone would expect that to happen.

[bruhnaldo]

Nothing should "replace" Obamacare. You should have free reign to buy health insurance if you should so desire.

I literally just had to fill out a Financial Assistance application for a patient with a $17,000 bill because he had one of the Blue Cross Obamacare plans and they dropped him from his plan one month into it. You know what though? They'll still count him as someone who "got insurance because of Obamacare!" when all actuality all it did was set him up for a month and then when he still couldn't afford the "affordable healthcare" he was up shit's creek.

The only reason he's able to even apply for the charity program is because his insurance outright dropped him. Let alone all of the people who picked these "bronze" plans that have deductibles in the 10's of thousands and $200 copays at minimum that cover just about fuck all. "Insurance doesn't necessarily equal coverage" as I like to say.

[Pepe]

Clinton is a fucking hack and nothing she says should ever be trusted.

That I agree with. Then again, you can't really be a 'centrist' and not be a fucking hack.


Chucking you out MATE.

If Trump's plan comes to fruition I'll get my green card without even needing a job. :drool:

[bruhnaldo]

Did any of the Republican candidates suggest a path to citizenship for current illegal immigrants? I can't recall any of them doing so. Trump most definitely didn't, so I don't know why anyone would expect that to happen.

Well all the democratic candidates suggested was "let's take ALL the refugees!" and spent the last 8 years not improving anything for the current illegal immigrants. I just kinda assumed if they were going to tackle reform they'd tackle all aspects of it.

[Pepe]

You should have free reign to buy health insurance if you should so desire.

Should insurance companies be allowed to deny you health insurance if they so desire?

[bruhnaldo]

That I agree with. Then again, you can't really be a 'centrist' and not be a fucking hack.

Maybe centrist is a poor word. What I mean is taking issues on their face value and not just going down party lines to appease your constituents. Maybe that's exactly what "centrist" means and I'm just an idiot. Very real possibility.

Cause for me, I think I'm somewhat liberal on some issues and conservative on others. I don't think aligning yourself with one or the other as a whole is very healthy whatsoever.

[bruhnaldo]

Should insurance companies be allowed to deny you health insurance if they so desire?

Well that's where it gets tricky, isn't it? We shouldn't leave people to die just because they aren't going to make their insurance companies money over the lifetime of their policy but I also don't really think the government should be allowed to tax you if you decide you don't want to have insurance?

Healthcare reform is something that needs to start from the bottom up. These half-assed duct tape measures aren't actually solving any problems, they're more or less just skewing the stats in favor of politicians.

[Pepe]

Repeat after me:

'Universal healthcare'

[bruhnaldo]

https://i.giphy.com/media/3oz8xUlPYpccWCV0nm/giphy-facebook_s.jpg

It's a multi-billion dollar industry, Pepe. The roots are too deep just to fuck it all off and go the Canada route.

Besides, you think all of these rich, influential people are going to love their tax rates going up so they can pay for the healthcare of the poor?

It's politics, man. You have to come up with a solution that somewhat appeases both parties and both parties have to be willing to concede something.

"Universal Healthcare" is a fucking utopian wet dream sold to the poor that'll never happen in this country.

[Pepe]

I guess that's 'American Exceptionalism' for you. The only people who can't get such basic shit done. God Bless America and all.

[bruhnaldo]

I didn't ask for this hand brother but I can't deny the realities of our situation just to feel better about my "morality".

In a perfect world everyone has healthcare, free reign to see any specialist they would need, it wouldn't cost them a dime.

One day that may be possible in this country but it won't be in our lifetimes. The best we can do is hope for baby steps toward the right direction. The sad part is, that'll never happen with the current divide. Too many folks entrenched in their positions and those positions of power.

[GS]

898613526033563648

[Lewis]

Yeah, he's a legend. We know.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I've just discovered that yanks say 'Ay-dolf' Hitler. Christ, I thought they were bad before but this is a new low.

[bruhnaldo]

Well how do you say it

[Byron]

Ah-dolf Hitler

[John Arne]

I might start pronouncing it Ay-merica.

[Henry]

There are obviously some very intense power struggles being played out within the Trump white-house between (for want of better labels) insular nationalists and hawkish interventionists. The reaction of both Banner and the other Breitbart guy talking about "war" underscores this. We probably shouldn't see the latter faction as "good guys" of course - they include a worrying proportion of military types now running the government who are angling for confrontation with North Korea and others.

[phonics]

A US Naval ship crashed into a marine liner in Singapore, 10 Navy officers missing and 5 injured.

Trumps response: "That's too bad."

I bet you the reason it sounds like he doesn't care is because it's called the USS McCain. Complete nutter.

[niko_cee]

How do they keep crashing these things?

[John Arne]

Same happened last month near Japan, and some 7 sailors died.



"The collision was avoidable and both ships demonstrated poor seamanship. Within Fitzgerald, flawed watch stander teamwork and inadequate leadership contributed to the collision," the U.S. Seventh Fleet said in a media release.

In the first detailed account from one of those directly involved in the collision in the early hours of June 17, the captain of the cargo ship the ACX Crystal said in a report seen by Reuters his crew signaled the Fitzgerald with flashing lights around 10 minutes before the collision. The Fitzgerald did not respond or alter course, it said..
The commercial vessel had the right-of-way under maritime rules and the Fitzgerald, which was hit on the starboard side, was likely at fault.



Billions of dollars worth of ships... silly people in charge of them.

[phonics]

How do they keep crashing these things?

This is the area in which they crashed

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHufDGSXkAAlc6R.jpg

It's a large amount of very large ships with a slow turning radius. (And as John Arne notes above, human error will always exist)

[Magic]

You don't expect human error on military ships though, least of all the American navy, least of all some basic seamanship rules.

[niko_cee]

Yeah, I've been to Singapore and seen all the boats, and watched those tv programmes about the English Channel and how collisions are basically set in stone miles away if their little line paths cross, but still, you think they'd be able not to stack their absurdly expensive bits of military equipment into other planet sized objects, at least not often anyway.

[phonics]

Yeah, I've been to Singapore and seen all the boats, and watched those tv programmes about the English Channel and how collisions are basically set in stone miles away if their little line paths cross, but still, you think they'd be able not to stack their absurdly expensive bits of military equipment into other planet sized objects, at least not often anyway.

From what I've been reading from AdamWeinstein who seems to be plugged into this. There are so many readings that you get constant false flags and it's a matter of determining which are the false flags and hoping you get it right. The problem being all these army people speak in acronyms so I barely understand a thing:
http://i.imgur.com/BRMP1J2.png

[John Arne]

Re the first incident



In the first detailed account from one of those directly involved, the cargo ship's captain said the ACX Crystal had signaled with flashing lights after the Fitzgerald "suddenly" steamed on to a course to cross its path.


Doesn't bode well for the BEST MILITARY IN THE WORLD.

[phonics]

I'm sure I've told the story about my mate retiring from the UK military due to injury after a tour in Iraq. They were de-mining a field, Americans rock-up saying they have to get across the field, UK tell them they have to go a couple of KM up where they've already cleared it. The Americans said they had no time and drove across the field, barely got anywhere before hitting a landmine, they all died and the door of the Humvee they were driving blew off and hit him in the back and KO'd him. He woke up in a military hospital and basically handed his notice in there and then.

They're idiots.

[John Arne]

When Trump says "they say it was a beautiful speech I gave last night" (he just said it again in Arizona).... have we worked out who "they" are yet?

[John Arne]

Fucking hell... he's still going on about his campaign wins.... "we won Arizona... won it by a lot... great victory".
Now he's just moaning about Clinton and Obama.... does he realise that the election is over? This is seriously embarrassing... Mert - are you watching this disaster - thoughts?

[phonics]

I was going to post this yesterday but they've since deleted the tweet. Luckily, I found a screencap.

http://i.imgur.com/A0it8Lt.png

[phonics]

When you're definitely not a racist and just happen to refer to MLK as Martin Luther Coon...

900725436556161024

[Shindig]

Could've saved that by calling him Coont.

[mugbull]

Lol coon. Couple years ago some guy in my frat saw raccoons in front of our house and messaged "coons spotted in front of the house, watch out!" to our Groupme. Had no idea it was a perjorative. Pretty fuckin hilarious at the time because this guy sucked, but I bet we'd have to go through hearings if that ever got out.

[ItalAussie]

It's so telling that Trump hasn't gotten over his election win yet, and keeps running campaign-style rallies because it's the only part of the job he enjoys.

I wonder if history will attempt to frame him as anything other than an abject embarrassment, or whether authors in fifty or a hundred years will just state the obvious.

[GS]

He won because he won the rust belt by telling them what they wanted to hear, so presumably they'll frame his election itself as a reaction to the consequences of globalisation etc. etc. Obviously in terms of assessing his actual presidency, there's not much material you can work with to make it look anything other than the abject embarrassment, as you say, it actually is.

He's pardoned Joe Arpaio now too, so the civil rights groups have gone MENTAL.

[randomlegend]

Rightly so, by the sounds of things.

[phonics]

That Arpaio thing is nuts. The mans a psychopath.

[John]

Apparently accepting the pardon is seen as an implicit admission of guilt, so it'll harm him in a big way if any one of the thousands upon thousands of people he's fucked over brings a civil suit against him. He seems like a proper cunt.

[phonics]

He was pardoned for contempt of court not the actual things he did so there won't be any civil repercussions.

[John]

The contempt of court charge was for 'actual things he did', namely continuing to profile Latinos long after he'd been ordered to stop.

[Lewis]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/28/trump-tweets-hoax-louise-mensch-claude-taylor

And that is just the more obviously mental ones.

[John Arne]

Surprised the The Guardian has ran the story given that they run half of these completely obvious made up stories.

[bruhnaldo]

Well that's the glorious thing about the news nowadays. You can basically print/say whatever you want. If you get called out on it, 87% of the people who read the first story never even notice or consider the retraction later.

You're still influencing the public and you somehow never lose credibility. It's glorious.

[Yevrah]

Apologies in small print on the bottom corner of page 18 really aren't on.

That said, the print media has never been less relevant than it is now, be that physically or online.

[John]

An apology should appear wherever the original story did. If it was front page so be it, your headline for that day is 'Sorry, we fucked up.'

[Yevrah]

Yep.

.

[mikem]

I've lived in Maricopa Country for the last nine years. Arpiao is so horrendous that while McCain won by 18 and Trump by 3, Arpiao lost by 10. If he had been subject to what poorer citizens here faced? He would have spent his pre-trial time in a 127 degree tent prison wearing pink underwear while spending the day as free chain gang labour. We spent hundreds of millions in court settlements as a country in wasted tax dollars. It is nauseating to watch conservatives who spent decades kissing the ring because he was a minor celebrity now uniformly tut-tut about his racism. It was dismissed for years as identity politics.

[mikem]

There are going to be more munitions dropped in D campaign ads in what would normally be considered no hope red districts than in Dresden. It is getting hilarious:

Staten Island
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bHYaOlTbsww

Kentucky
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CcjG2fK7kNk

[ItalAussie]

An apology should appear wherever the original story did. If it was front page so be it, your headline for that day is 'Sorry, we fucked up.'

I like that idea a lot.

[GS]

I've long thought the same. You should also be required to 'black out' the entire area in which you put the original spread. So if you have a seven page spread, all seven pages are blacked out completely as a consequence with "RETRACTION" (or equivalent) being emblazoned across it with an explanation of what your fuck up was.

It'll never happen, obviously.

[Yevrah]

Indeed. If only a full review of press standards had been recently carried out.

[mikem]

I know nobody is suggesting this but the idea that the Guardian is influencing US public opinion is fun.

[GS]

The Guardian are basically a parody of themselves nowadays. On one hand it's a shame, but on the other hand they're mentalists so fuck them.

[Kikó]

There's too much click bait nonsense on there now. Obviously because they make no money so have to find advertising revenue through stupid exaggerate pieces.

[phonics]

I've long thought the same. You should also be required to 'black out' the entire area in which you put the original spread. So if you have a seven page spread, all seven pages are blacked out completely as a consequence with "RETRACTION" (or equivalent) being emblazoned across it with an explanation of what your fuck up was.

It'll never happen, obviously.

Freedom of the press, mate.

(I massively agree, it was actually part of Leveson (Leveson 2 specifically IIRC) but that idea and many more got dismantled when we gave IPSO/Paul Dacre control of it instead.)

[John Arne]

I love how direct the Finnish President is :D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MB_fpP8GGyk

[ItalAussie]

Tillerson both saying that the President's values do not reflect that of America, and Mattis issuing a contrary directive while criticising the President. :cab:

It's one thing to step down when you don't agree with the man on top, but it seems like some fairly powerful people are sticking to their posts and speaking their minds. This remains an absolute shambles.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I've never knowingly seen Tillerson, but his voice often comes on the radio news when I'm driving so I imagine him as JR Ewing.

[John]

Trump saying 'what a crowd, what a turnout' to a load of hurricane evacuees has to be his least appropriate crowd size boast thus far. If Hugh Abbott had done that you'd have dismissed it as shoddy writing.

[bruhnaldo]

I thought he was talking to people who volunteered to help

[Disco]

Remember when people lost their shit over Obama wearing a tan suit? Simpler times.

[bruhnaldo]

Everybody on about this tan suit the past few days. What newsletter do you guys subscribe to?

[Boydy]

The Simpler Times. It says right there.

[bruhnaldo]

*subscribed*

[John]

The tan suit thing has popped up because it was three years ago yesterday.

[John]

It seems like he was talking to gathered volunteers, although some of them will no doubt have been survivors themselves, so that's another strike against Vice.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIbsbNIVoAEle5g.jpg

This transcript seems to be legit though, and it's just rambling horseshit. He is genuinely incapable of putting together a cogent sentence on the fly.

[Lewis]

I don't know. His GREAT JOB bullshit is probably better suited to this sort of thing than some stiff turning up with a script going on about communities.

[Yevrah]

I can't remember who first raised it in the thread (Merse, was it?), but I'm firmly on the he has Alzheimer's train now.

[Boydy]

904038749293727744

:D

Sure they are.

[Lewis]

I don't go in for the wider 4D CHESS stuff, but things like that are clearly a bit of fun, and do I think he knows that there will be a thousand saddos falling over themselves to tweet about it.

[Boydy]

I really think you're giving him too much credit.

[Spoonsky]

After all this time I still can't tell.

That one was clearly him taking the piss though.

[Shindig]

Given how much he goes off script on his speeches, and the amount of speeches he gives, we might never know.

[John Arne]

Do we still have an "America, lol" thread?

Anyway - police officer wanted to take blood from an unconscious (not under arrest) bloke - however, the nurse points out that under the Police Force's own agreement with the hospital - he is not allowed to. So he arrests her.


https://youtu.be/ihQ1-LQOkns

[Spoonsky]

That's in Salt Lake City. :)

[John Arne]

Have the police given a reason for the arrest?

[GS]

904760270102425601

Sounds about right.

[Pepe]

If by right you mean the exact opposite of what happened, then yes.

[GS]

Still believing in unicorns, I see. It must be liberating.

[Pepe]

I think the only people believing in unicorns are those who think 'Hilary' would have totally won if it wasn't for those mean 'Bernie Bros' and/or RUSSIA.

[Boydy]

904823389222817792

[GS]

I read somewhere that a larger-than-you'd-think chunk of Bernie's Mates either didn't bother voting for her or actively voted for Wor Donald.

On one hand, lol. On the other, you should be banned from whinging about anything the Big Man does if you did. The same goes for the Green voters.

[Boydy]

Oh great, we've got 'Wor Donald' now as well.

[Pepe]

It's the US, a large chunk of everyone didn't bother voting. Also, lol at 'if you vote for someone you can never complain about anything they will ever do.' You're choosing a representative, not swearing eternal allegiance to sucking someone's dick.

[Lewis]

Do you know any of these 'Dreamers' about to get the boot, Wor Pepe?

[Pepe]

Not anymore, but there were a lot of them in Miami. They tried to convince me to join their rallies and trips to DC, but I just lolled them off behind my F1. It was a bit of a mess for them, since they had to look for universities which didn't check immigration status. Professors and people from the international office could tell you where to apply and where not to. It really is a shitshow, they should just make them citizens and be done with it.

While on the topic, it was pretty lol to receive a STATEMENT from the university's chancellor on how he is against Trump's decision and how we should celebrate people and embrace them no matter where they come from. Less than a week after he threatened international students with deportation if a graduate student union is created.

[phonics]

I read somewhere that a larger-than-you'd-think chunk of Bernie's Mates either didn't bother voting for her or actively voted for Wor Donald.

On one hand, lol. On the other, you should be banned from whinging about anything the Big Man does if you did. The same goes for the Green voters.

12% of Bernie Brothers went to Trump which would have won Clinton the election, this is correct. 25% of Clinton voters went to McCain and Obama still lolled it off the park offering an anti war, anti Wall Street campaign and then not delivering on it.

[Bartholomert]

Not anymore, but there were a lot of them in Miami. They tried to convince me to join their rallies and trips to DC, but I just lolled them off behind my F1. It was a bit of a mess for them, since they had to look for universities which didn't check immigration status. Professors and people from the international office could tell you where to apply and where not to. It really is a shitshow, they should just make them citizens and be done with it.

While on the topic, it was pretty lol to receive a STATEMENT from the university's chancellor on how he is against Trump's decision and how we should celebrate people and embrace them no matter where they come from. Less than a week after he threatened international students with deportation if a graduate student union is created.

How about no.

[Bartholomert]

904760270102425601

Sounds about right.

She's not wrong. Honestly centrist Hillary (which is probably what she would have been if the Left hadn't gone absolutely off the reservation in the last 5-10 years and forced her hand) wouldn't have been a terrible option.

[bruhnaldo]

Do we still have an "America, lol" thread?

Anyway - police officer wanted to take blood from an unconscious (not under arrest) bloke - however, the nurse points out that under the Police Force's own agreement with the hospital - he is not allowed to. So he arrests her.


https://youtu.be/ihQ1-LQOkns

it's not even about the police's "agreement with the hospital" it's literally against the law

[randomlegend]

Have the police given a reason for the arrest?

That the police man got angry that he wasn't allowed to do what he wanted. I read the 'charge' he actually said she was being arrested under doesn't even exist (not sure that's true having looked it up, but still).

The only reason they were trying to get the person's blood in the first place was that they were a third party injured in a high speed chase the police illegally undertook. They were hoping to find alcohol/evidence of drug use so they could discredit them in case they tried to bring a suit against the police force.

The state of policing in America is absolutely shocking. That nurse however is a proper hero.

[phonics]

The injured third party? An off duty cop.

[phonics]

Theory: Politics is broken specifically because people think of politics as sports

Example: Merts difference in opinion between pre and post election Hilary and this tweet

905499814179340288

[Shindig]

Mert's a jock. So this holds true.

[GS]

It's only because the Americans have to turn everything into a sports metaphor, this being the only medium through which most of them can understand what's happening.

[bruhnaldo]

Lol do we now

[Lewis]

Good hustle buddy.

[Spikey M]

It was worth a shot.

[mugbull]

Lol the lengths to which the Brits will go

[Spikey M]

We go the whole 9 yards.

[Lewis]

We leave it all out there.

[bruhnaldo]

You guys are literally just saying things.

[mugbull]

Spikey is what is known in the states as a "butt-buddy"

[Spikey M]

You can't even do homophobia well, you turd burglar.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I learned 'uphill gardener' on this very website many years ago, and it's served me well ever since.

[Mazuuurk]

technically no

may taz rest in peace

[Spoonsky]

Hillary's new book is out.

What a cunt.

[Pepe]

Will buy a few and burn them on the main quad. LIBERAL TEARS will flow.

[phonics]

I know it's the NY Post but there's a couple of other sources (https://newrepublic.com/article/144790/one-last-tour-hillaryland) for it too.

https://i.redd.it/7prku0rqpplz.jpg

"This is all you're getting" should have been her campaign slogan. How can you be so bad at this stuff. It can't be that hard.

[Lewis]

Who has the least self-awareness, her or Tony Blair?

[Spikey M]

Lacking self awareness whilst maintaining ridiculous levels of self importance. What a duo.

[Pepe]

Knowing that she still has a lower 'acceptance rate' that Tronald brings me great joy.

[Disco]

That's an achievement in itself, I didn't realise they made numbers that small.

[Boydy]

You are gonna shit when you find out about zero.

[phonics]

She's just taken to CNN to... slag off Bernie Sanders some more.

What's the plan here?

[mugbull]

Odds that she tries to run again in 2020?

[Disco]

You are gonna shit when you find out about zero.

The zero-th one will blow your mind.

[Pepe]

Odds that she tries to run again in 2020?

Wouldn't be surprised. The Democrats' roster looks awfully thin. What a day it will be when she inevitably loses again to Trump. :drool:

[mugbull]

Also discovered the other day that the junior Senator from Alabama is named Luther Strange (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luther_Strange)

[Pepe]

The third.

[mikem]

On the left, we are managing to continue our streak of history's worst political messaging ever. Us Dems have even rubbed off on Bernie. His opening pitch for single payer is "You never have to a write a check to a private insurance company again."

It is as if none of the people writing this have any experience with how 50-60% of Americans deal with health care on an individual basis. We don't choose the insurer, we don't write checks, and we only pay 30-40% of the total bill (if we know what our employers actually pay). At some point, they are going to have to deal with that.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Who's in pole position for the 2020 run? Anyone not terrible?

[phonics]

Kamala Harris (meh), Cory Booker (the Chuck Umana of the US, bad) and Elizabeth Warren (similarly wonkish to Clinton but good politics on Wall St. at least)

[Jimmy Floyd]

Congratulations Donald.

[phonics]

Warren would win I think even if she is a bit of a Facebook mum. The rest'd get pounded.

[Bernanke]

Booker gives me the creeps.

Kirsten Gillibrand and Kamala Harris are both being hyped in various circles. I know fuck all about them though. Maybe Martin O'Malley will try again?

[Jimmy Floyd]

'Kirsten Gillibrand'. Fucking hell. That collection of syllables doesn't have a great political record.

[McAvennie]

Who has the least self-awareness, her or Tony Blair?

Theresa May wins this particular award

[mikem]

In a Scooby Doo cartoon, when Booker gets unmasked we find out he has been Marco Rubio all along. It amazes me how much everyone is projecting on Harris; nobody really knows what State AG's do. Biden is the only big candidate Phonics missed. And Carcetti is going to run again.

But D's nominate the front runners when we are in power and people out of the blue when we are out of power. Neither Clinto or Obama were really realistic at this point. Only hardcore D's really knew them. So, Duckworth (Il), Hickenlooper (CO), Moulton(MA), Murphy (CT), Kander, Newsome(CA), Bel Edwards(LA), Warner (VA), Schiff (CA), Castro (TX, either of the twins), or even Kennedy (MA). There will be a million of them.

[Spikey M]

Theresa May wins this particular award

She was self aware enough to not appear at the debates.

[Magic]

Mike do you even like football?

[Pepe]

O'Malley was alright.

[phonics]

In a Scooby Doo cartoon, when Booker gets unmasked we find out he has been Marco Rubio all along. It amazes me how much everyone is projecting on Harris; nobody really knows what State AG's do. Biden is the only big candidate Phonics missed. And Carcetti is going to run again.

Biden might not even be alive by the time 2020 rolls around, he'd be what, 74?

I didn't name him because I figured if he were going to do it he would have done it last time, I know he's pissed about how badly Clinton screwed the pooch but I still don't think it's enough. He'd also lose.

[John]

908276308265795585

He's basically taking himself of a week ago to task there, but some of the replies to that are blinding.

[Bernanke]

O'Malley was alright.

He was, wasn't he? Seemed to be a complete victim to the MEDIA NARRATIVE surrounding Clinton v Bernie. In a more uncertain field he might actually pick up some momentum.

https://newrepublic.com/article/141354/will-democrats-ever-care-martin-omalley

Or not.

[Pepe]

He was supposed to be there just for Hilary to lol past him.

Speaking of, remember those two other clowns that showed up to the first Democratic debate? :harold:

[mikem]

Biden might not even be alive by the time 2020 rolls around, he'd be what, 74?

I didn't name him because I figured if he were going to do it he would have done it last time, I know he's pissed about how badly Clinton screwed the pooch but I still don't think it's enough. He'd also lose.

He's as declared as the others. Bernie, Warren, and Biden are all of an age. I doubt they all end up running but they are all positioning. Don't see why any of those three are any less capable of winning. Bernie seems the least likely to win a primary in a race between the three. They'd all do a general differently. 2018 is going to change all their plans anyway.

[phonics]

Is Warren that old? I haven't seen video of her since the crash.

[GS]

Bernie is rubbish, and he would lose in a straight shit-off with the Donald.

[phonics]

Bernie is rubbish, and he would lose in a straight shit-off with the Donald.

https://m.popkey.co/1958f5/kwM91_s-200x150.gif

Nah

[mikem]

I think Warren is 68. Bernie's fine. He just has been an independent too long and doesn't get party politics. Both he and the left treat primaries like generals. They are hard to win when big chunks of your base can't vote in them.

[Magic]

Norkies just fired another missile lol.

[Shindig]

Howay, lads. You'll put someone's eye out with that. I should go over there and tell them that.

[Boydy]

908894681416765440

Someone needs to stage an intervention on America.

[Lewis]

She's made the most of that.

[McAvennie]

Aye, it's the whole DiCanio/Alcock affair all over again #justiceforpaulo

[Pepe]

They broke a window, don't you know? #homegrownterrorists

[Spikey M]

908894681416765440

Someone needs to stage an intervention on America.

Good. Old people don't get beaten up anywhere near enough. Busy cunts.

[mikem]

The coverage of these rallies are so bad. In Phoenix, we had all been standing around for four hours in the 100 degree heat when suddenly smoke bombs start going off and everyone is getting hit with pepper spray. Then we were told we were we were being unlawful and had to disperse. I was standing 100 yards from the Antifa idiots (and they are idiots cos-playing Hamas) and they were not doing anything but bad chants. But we were a majority white crowd so nothing happened past that.

Is there property damage? Sure. But violence is nearly always instigated by the cops,

[niko_cee]

Schultz, who identified as one of the Borg, preferred the pronoun "they".

[Shindig]

It's like they want the perks of being gay but not the identity.

[phonics]

Not to be the 'this is not normal' guy but can I just note that we all just moved on from the President referring to Kim Jong-Un as 'Rocket man'

909384837018112000

[Lewis]

He then liked a load of lol memes about himself, so he was obviously having a great day.

[Pepe]

I had a lol art him retweeting that one of him hitting Hillary with a golf ball.

[Disco]

Not to be the 'this is not normal' guy but can I just note that we all just moved on from the President referring to Kim Jong-Un as 'Rocket man'

909384837018112000

It really demonstrates that the way to be politically immune from scandal is to spend thirty years being an awful cunt to everyone before entering office.

[John Arne]

What a fucked up stupid cunting country America is. Land of the Free, indeed....

A kid is approached by a cop for walking around, playing with a piece of string... he is then rugby tackled to the floor whilst "back-up" arrives. The fact that he has autism is largely irrelevant, in my opinion.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2CUjnYGLaw

[GS]

They give you the electric chair if you don't refer to them by their proper title of 'law enforcement personnel'.

[Bernanke]

I was curious about the training US cops get.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/07/02/police-countries-guns-fatal-shootings_n_7709638.html


“In the US, police training lasts on average 19 weeks,” she writes, while “in much of Europe that would be unthinkable. In Germany, for example, police train for at least 130 weeks.

19 weeks. :cab:

[Lewis]

130 weeks seems excessive, but the ability to properly process a train platform full of discarded suitcases requires specialist knowledge.

[Bernanke]

In Sweden it's 2 years of full time studies, as well as half a year of on the job-training.

19 weeks is absolutely mind-boggling.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Ours is about 32 weeks in terms of actual training, but then the rest of the 2 years on probation. And the British police, as the song goes, are the best in the world.

[Henry]

"We may need to totally destroy North Korea."

Is there any precedent in history for this threat?

[GS]

Yes. They surrendered unconditionally first.

[Lewis]

lol he's proper given it to them all. :cool:

[John Arne]

Speaking of war, Ken Burns new 18 hour documentary, 'The Vietnam War', started yesterday (12 episodes over 14 days). The first two episodes have been very good.

[phonics]

910558586799099904

Lol.

[Disco]

Nambia :D

I love how he has to be blatantly reading from a card for anything to make the slightest bit of sense.

[niko_cee]

Not to be confused with their sworn enemies, Pambia.

[Pepe]

http://www.stltoday.com/lifestyles/columns/joe-holleman/police-group-urges-calls-to-pi-pizzeria-about-owner-s/article_4a4033c3-517c-5f54-98e2-8350b01502b3.html


"Blue Lives Matter" printed a story Tuesday about Chris Sommers, co-founder of the popular Pi restaurants, showing some of Sommers' posts on Twitter — missives in which Sommers calls some officers "dimwits" and accuses them of "terrorizing our town, hiding under tactical gear."

The police publication notes at the end of the story, "Let’s get the word out that if you bash the police, you won’t be getting our business."

The St. Louis County Police Organization has reprinted the story on its Facebook page and goes on to ask friends to call the stores.

"We have been busy protecting everyone's free speech during the demonstrations. Here are the numbers if you feel like your freedom of speech needs a little exercise.... " the county police page notes.

The post lists numbers for the Central West End, downtown St. Louis and the Delmar Loop locations.

https://www.riverfronttimes.com/foodblog/2017/09/20/chris-sommer-responds-after-police-union-puts-him-and-pi-pizzeria-on-blast


As I drove past Euclid on my way home, I looked south and saw a wall of militarized police marching in line to our corner. It was immediately alarming because they were not pushing any protestors or clearing anyone from the street. They were approaching an empty block, marching by themselves with gas masks, guns and shields. I immediately stopped my car and ran back to my restaurant, still baffled why they were coming our way. When they reached the corner, at least one of them began shooting indiscriminately, at absolutely no one. Some of the shots (pepper pellets, I later learned) were directed towards the air, so it appears they were just trying to intimidate. But whom? The only people around were guests and neighbors and a few people with cameras. I had previously pulled out my phone and got all of this on tape.

As they continued to shoot, I lost my shit and screamed at them for terrorizing our guests and hiding behind their shields and guns when there were zero agitators on our corner. Cars were driving freely, unimpeded by anyone blocking the street.

After they threw a tear gas canister at me (again, on video), a guy next to me picked it up and threw it back at them, either to get it away from him and others at Pi, or because he felt violated and wanted to return the poison. They certainly didn't like that, and finally crossed the street, rushing at me as I ran into my restaurant and barely got the door closed before they could break in. Yes, I had to lock down my restaurant for the first time from the St. Louis Metropolitan Police Department. I then had to close the restaurant, buy dinner for remaining guests and ensure that my team, who were now all terrified from the gas and rush by the police, had a safe ride home. I repeat, we only closed our restaurant this weekend out of fear of police, not protestors or the shitheads vandalizing.

Since I began posting my experience and videos on social media, and calling out the insane, illegal behavior by the police, I have become public enemy No. 1 to every "Blue Lives Matter" fanboy. They have been terrorizing my teams on the phone (after the union posted all of our phone numbers on Facebook), threatening me and my businesses, and falsely claiming my businesses were protected by the police. It was my team and I who kept our business safe that night, though only barely from the police department itself. These people are now calling for our windows to be broken, and based on their words, I don't doubt they will do it themselves.