U.S. Presidential Election 2016 (Sponsored by Betty Croker's Hamburger Helper)

[Henry]

Standard operating procedure for Republicans I know, but having bitched about the deficit for so long, they're planning to assg $2.4 trillion with it with some of the largest tax cuts in history. Goes without saying that this benefits the rich almost exclusively.

[Bartholomert]

Standard operating procedure for Republicans I know, but having bitched about the deficit for so long, they're planning to assg $2.4 trillion with it with some of the largest tax cuts in history. Goes without saying that this benefits the rich almost exclusively.

I mean that's a gross oversimplification. The tax cuts help everybody on its surface and simplifies our tax code, not to mention the economic activity it will spur. This is great great shit, and the reason we elected Trump. Healthcare reform seems to be on the path to getting through the House as well according to the latest indicators.

In other news I'm going to a Trump rally on Saturday.

[randomlegend]

In other news I'm going to a Trump rally on Saturday.

https://www.amazon.com/Snazaroo-Classic-Face-Paint-White/dp/B000H6W2GW

Stay safe.

[mikem]

Standard operating procedure for Republicans I know, but having bitched about the deficit for so long, they're planning to assg $2.4 trillion with it with some of the largest tax cuts in history. Goes without saying that this benefits the rich almost exclusively.

This is a strange piece of performance art tax plan. It is ending deductions on state income taxes and mortgage deductions. These account for a huge chunk of state's and cities' tax revenvue. It is something like $480 billion. It is hard to see how they can afford to give up that revenue.

For individuals that means it is impossible to know how this will affect them until their states and cities weigh in. Is a 2% tax cut worth double paying on your $1,000 mortgage deduction and 2-8% state income tax?

Very wealthy non-employees do well because the bulk of your earnings are in pass through income at 15%, but classified employed moderately wealthy people like doctors, lawyers, and tech people will pay more. In blue states and cities they are getting fucked pretty hard.

[Bartholomert]

This is a strange piece of performance art tax plan. It is ending deductions on state income taxes and mortgage deductions. These account for a huge chunk of state's and cities' tax revenvue. It is something like $480 billion. It is hard to see how they can afford to give up that revenue.

For individuals that means it is impossible to know how this will affect them until their states and cities weigh in. Is a 2% tax cut worth double paying on your $1,000 mortgage deduction and 2-8% state income tax?

Very wealthy non-employees do well because the bulk of your earnings are in pass through income at 15%, but classified employed moderately wealthy people like doctors, lawyers, and tech people will pay more. In blue states and cities they are getting fucked pretty hard.

I haven't looked into the proposal that closely, but I thought they were just doing away with classifications between deductions without removing them as potentially deductible activities. I thought that aspect of the proposal was more of a 'stream line the deduction process' rather than 'get rid of deductions.'

[Henry]

I mean that's a gross oversimplification.

It's the assessment of the Centre for Tax Policy. The effect is to bring the debt to 111% of GDP in ten years time (instead of 79% which is the current forecast) at which point it becomes unsustainable.
Paul Ryan's magic asterisks about how it's going to be paid for (*Growth!) don't really cut it.

[GS]

And yet when Jez says he'll fund his £500bn investment by "growing the economy", there's not a word of criticism...

Tax cuts are generally positive, but not this steeply and not this quickly. Volume can't plug the gap left by the sudden decrease, so it'll definitely require other funding sources (probably borrowing) to fund. A staggered decrease would be sensible, as they do have higher taxes than other developed economies.

That said, there are certainly big advantages to simplifying the system drastically for all taxes. It has seven tax bands for income alone. So that aspect is certainly positive.

[Mazuuurk]

Aren't US taxes already shit low?

[Bernanke]

Not necessarily. I studied some taxation law a few years back, and corporate taxes are way higher there than in Sweden. They do have more "loopholes" though which means that it in reality it might be lower.

Overall though, US taxes are 26% of GDP which is pretty low, but it's difficult to describe how exactly it is collected compared to other countries with different states having different VAT etc.

Swedish taxes are 45.8% of GDP, Germany is 40.6%, UK is at 34.4%.


That said, there are certainly big advantages to simplifying the system drastically for all taxes. It has seven tax bands for income alone. So that aspect is certainly positive.

Yep. We are incredibly spoiled in Sweden with a relatively straightforward tax system, especially for capital gains. The US is a mess on every front when it comes to consistency and simplicity.

[Mazuuurk]

Yes but then Sweden is the pinnacle of civilization as we know it, so.

[Pepe]

I mean that's a gross oversimplification.


I haven't looked into the proposal that closely

I lolled.

[mikem]

Everyone's speculation about the tax plan is just that, speculation. It is not a serious proposal; Reagan's initial tax reform bill was three 500 page volumes. I'll do Mert's research for him and post a link to what Trump's team has released:

https://mobile.twitter.com/ZekeJMiller/status/857287861019824131/photo/1

Impressive, isn't it. The full text is a one page executive summary kick off meeting goal statement that is internally contradictory. And no, a simplified tax code is not achieved: there are three bands but no income markers, deductions will be removed except for the list that makes up the the bulk of what people take. The Head of Treasury was on Fox last night and got beat up because he failed twice at answering the question: "What would a family of four making $70,000 a year pay?" Treasury doesn't know, no analysts know, nobody knows because they don't know any of the details of the plan. We are all overestimating on drips of trial balloons. If they have written a bill they have not released it yet. The various research out there is based on specific questions about cutting the corporate tax rate by 10, 15, or 20% with some nonsense dynamic scoring thrown in.

It is performance art at this point. Except that most interpretive dance routines contain more macroeconomic detail.

[Pepe]

Who knew tax reform was that complicated?

[mikem]

In the first piece of departmental pr Treasury referred to themselves as Commerce. These idiots don't even know what part of the government they are running.

[John]

I wouldn't rule out someone from Commerce being tapped to write the press release. There are still eight billion governmental positions unfilled, remember.

[mikem]

I wouldn't be surprised with either that or people in appointed positions not really understanding the difference. Staffing issues are partly a result of the R establishment not wanting to sign up. Only Mattis, Kelly, McMaster, and Haley are typical R hires. This administration is full of neophytes, rejects, and the broken toys of the Republican Party running around behind President Whoosh Whoosh Boom Boom.

[Bernanke]

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-100days-idUSKBN17U0CA


He misses driving, feels as if he is in a cocoon, and is surprised how hard his new job is.

President Donald Trump on Thursday reflected on his first 100 days in office with a wistful look at his life before the White House.

"I loved my previous life. I had so many things going," Trump told Reuters in an interview. "This is more work than in my previous life. I thought it would be easier."


More than five months after his victory and two days shy of the 100-day mark of his presidency, the election is still on Trump's mind. Midway through a discussion about Chinese President Xi Jinping, the president paused to hand out copies of what he said were the latest figures from the 2016 electoral map.

"Here, you can take that, that's the final map of the numbers," the Republican president said from his desk in the Oval Office, handing out maps of the United States with areas he won marked in red. "It’s pretty good, right? The red is obviously us."

He had copies for each of the three Reuters reporters in the room.

One of the most pathetic things I have ever read. 5 months later and he is still bragging about the election, narcissistic fuck. :lol: He legitimately thought Obama spent all of his time golfing and thought it would be an easy gig.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Why would you think being President of the USA would be easier than running a few crap companies and going on telly?

[Raoul Duke]

Because he's a colossal spastic?

[Lewis]

Speaking of which, Facebook touring the country meeting humans (this time at a Ford factory) is something somebody ought to put a stop to.

[Pepe]

Speaking of which, Facebook touring the country meeting humans (this time at a Ford factory) is something somebody ought to put a stop to.

Most def.

[Raoul Duke]

He's definitely going to make a run for office of some kind.

[Lewis]

Mark Zuckerberg vs Chelsea Clinton in the Democratic run-off, with the winner facing Rep. Mert 'Hank' Arkansas. No thanks.

[John]

Mark Zuckerberg vs Chelsea Clinton in the Democratic run-off, with the winner facing Rep. Mert 'Hank' Arkansas. No thanks.

:D

Martin Arkansas will definitely be his 'Ethnic White' name.

[Lewis]

This speech he's giving to the gun nuts is fun.

'Yeah, Charlton Heston... Anyway, here's why the election was better than the World Series.'

Legend.

[mikem]

I think Paul Ryan may actually be in collusion with Democratic ad makers. They are actually proposing removing the single most popular part of the ACA while keeping everything people hate. What's better is that they are exempting themselves.

[John]

Him bringing up the election every time he appears in public is genuinely quite likable. It's like a child reminding you of that time they told a joke you laughed at every time you see them.

[Lewis]

It's been a while since I've watched him doing one of these speeches-cum-bullshittings, and they really are good.

[mikem]

I went to both Jeff Flake's townhall and the Bernie / Perez DNC reunion tour. You would have loved them for the pure spectacle. Town halls are are great because people either ask faux outrage questions or incredibly detailed policy questions. Neither of which the hapless Senator or Congress person can answer.

And between Tom (I said shit a lot - I'm folksy) Perez and Bernie's massive corporations Tourette's that was fun too. I've never been a big Bernie fan but I had never realized he was as vapid as the rest. He called me a hero three times.

[John]

Trump bringing back the Pocahontas jabs seems a bit much now that he's President.

[ItalAussie]

Trump bringing back the Pocahontas jabs seems a bit much now that he's President.

He's still campaigning in his own head. Hence the constant rallies.

[Lewis]

Permanent revolution. :harold:

[phonics]

Today in holy shit they've put a legitimate moron in charge news. Trump asks why The Civil War happened.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-vall2UwAIJoyK.jpg

[Lewis]

A properly lol response would be to blame it on protectionism. Failing that, Tweet 'Wow. Just wow' at him before that William LeGate freak gets on a roll.

[mikem]

Trump is the guy who is surprised that so many Civil War battles were fought in National Parks.

[Shindig]

"Wait a minute? If we bring back slavery .... think of the job creation."

[ItalAussie]

The Andrew Jackson thing is a bit creepy weird in general. He's had a bit of a resurgence amongst the right-wing over there.

They don't want to say that it's the Trail of Tears. They'd probably call it "his decisiveness".

[Bartholomert]

Andrew Jackson is up there with Robert E. Lee among the greatest Americans that have ever lived.

[mikem]

It is sad to think that Pelosi and McConnell are the only two national politicians who are good at their jobs. Neither has a policy idea or can win a majority but that is not their jobs. Pelosi may as well have written the budget cr:

No funding for the wall.
Planned Parenthood funding kept.
NIH and EPA virtually untouched.
Only a CR so they still have to negotiate the budget on a weekly basis with D support.
ACHA has to pass the House this week or lose reconciliation. They may still pass it but only by gutting the one thing Trump promised to keep while exempting themselves from the rule. They are even cutting pre-existing conditions for employer covered plans on a state by state basis.

Every president since Reagan has forgotten what he actually did to be successful. He traded tax cuts for funding Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid for everyone born from 1940-1980.

[Lewis]

Andrew Jackson is up there with Robert E. Lee among the greatest Americans that have ever lived.

It turns out there was a blinding effort to find this out in 2005 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Greatest_American). George W. Bush in sixth, the somehow not dead Billy Graham, Lance Armstrong... They should do another one and kick the civil war off. I would probably go Thomas Jefferson, but you could argue that he did his best work as an Englishman.

[niko_cee]

There's too much to lol at on that to pick out anything specific, but then we voted Diana as the third greatest Briton didn't we?

Still, look at the disparity between the top 10s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_Greatest_Britons

Enoch in there at 55 for you Lewis.

[Lewis]

They would probably fix it these days, like the South Africans did with their version, so somebody like Alan Turing or Craig Charles won.

[Pepe]

That list. :D

[Lewis]

859467243347955712

:drool:

[Pepe]

:harold:

Go find a hole to dig yourself in.

[Henry]

http://crooksandliars.com/files/imagecache/node_primary/primary_image/17/05/trump_civil_war_report.jpg

[phonics]

Henry you can't just link us to your google search...

edit: Found my way round it. That was crap.

[mikem]

Looks like the $8 billion for high risk pools was enough and AHCA will pass the House today. Have to imagine that McConell has something that will pass the Senate ready.

And of course, pre-existing conditions, even for employer based plans, are up again. For those of you who never had to live with this here is a story from my family. I've got five sisters. One is a lawyer who had excellent employer backed care. She was raped in 1998. For three years she had to pay for virtually all care out of pocket and spent up to six months fighting the insurance company for reimbursement. Why? Possible HIV infection from the rape until she had three years of tests was a pre-existing condition. Sexual assault is again on the list.

[Disco]

What a lovely system.

[Henry]

The budget climbdown is absolutely staggering. :lol:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/paloma/daily-202/2017/05/01/daily-202-eight-ways-trump-got-rolled-in-his-first-budget-negotiation/590687f2e9b69b3a72331f09/?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.7872d5034fe7


Now that the language has posted, here are the eight most notable areas Trump caved in his first big spending negotiation:
1. There are explicit restrictions to block the border wall. We knew last week there would be no money to start construction on a project that the president says is more important to his base than anything else. But the final agreement goes further, putting strict limitations on how Trump can use new money for border security (e.g. to invest in new technology and repair existing fencing). Administration officials have insisted they already have the statutory authority to start building the wall under a 2006 law. This prevents such an end run.

The $1.5 billion for border security is also half as much as the White House requested. Additionally, there are no cuts in funding to sanctuary cities, something a federal judge said last week would be required for the Justice Department to follow through on its threats. And there is also no money for a deportation force.

2. Non-defense domestic spending will go up, despite the Trump team’s insistence he wouldn’t let that happen. The president called for $18 billion in cuts. Instead, he’s going to sign a budget with lots of sweeteners that grow the size of government. Mitch McConnell made sure $4.6 billion got put aside to permanently extend health benefits to 22,000 retired Appalachian coal miners and their families. Nancy Pelosi made sure $295 million was included to shore up Medicaid in Puerto Rico. Chuck Schumer got $61 million to reimburse local law enforcement agencies for the cost of protecting Trump when he travels to his residences in Florida and New York. There is also another $2 billion in disaster relief money for states, which bought a couple votes. (Kelsey Snell, our lead budget reporter, has more examples.)

3. Barack Obama’s cancer moonshot is generously funded. The administration asked to slash spending at the National Institutes of Health by $1.2 billion for the rest of this fiscal year. Instead, the NIH will get a $2 billion boost — on top of the huge increase it got last year. Republican appropriators who care about biomedical research, including Rep. Tom Cole (R-Okla.) and Sen. Roy Blunt (R-Mo.), delivered.

Trump also failed in his efforts to cut money for other kinds of scientific inquiry. For example, he proposed defunding the Advanced Research Projects Agency–Energy. Instead, it is getting a $15 million increase.

4. Trump fought to cut the Environmental Protection Agency by a third. The final deal trims its budget by just 1 percent, with no staff cuts. As part of a compromise, the EPA gets $80 million less than last year, but the budget is $8 billion.

5. He didn’t defund Planned Parenthood. Despite the best efforts of social conservatives, the group will continue to receive funding at current levels.

6. The president got less than half as much for the military as he said was necessary. Trump repeatedly prodded Congress to increase military spending by $30 billion. He’s getting $12.5 billion, with an additional $2.5 billion if/when he delivers a detailed plan on how to defeat the Islamic State. Many Democrats from states with bases and manufacturers, especially those up for reelection in 2018, wanted this, too. Like Trump, they will tout the increased spending as a victory. The White House plans to call this a down payment on a much bigger investment down the road.

7. Democrats say they forced Republicans to withdraw more than 160 riders. These unrelated policy measures, which each could have been a poison pill, would have done things like get rid of the fiduciary rule and water down environmental regulations. On the other side of the ledger, this budget blocks the Justice Department from restricting the dispensing of medical marijuana in states where it has been legalized.

8. To keep negotiations moving, the White House already agreed last week to continue paying Obamacare subsidies. This money, which goes to insurance companies, reduces out-of-pocket expenses for low-income people who get coverage under the Affordable Care Act. The Trump administration justifies giving up on this because of the potential to resolve the bigger issue by repealing Obamacare.

I'm actually pleasantly surprised at how resilient the system is in the US in resisting the worst of his plans. Trump will be wanting some sort of Reichstag Fire event soon.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Republicans would have been saying the same thing about Obama's stuff being BLOCKED eight years ago and throughout his presidency. It's a system that is designed to make everything stay the same forever.

[Spikey M]

The Yanks obsession with military spending is bizarre to me. They already have the best 'defence' in the world, many, many times over. Yet, what they have is of very little use in modern - Guerrilla - warfare. Billionsof Dollars on self flying planes that fire self firing rockets and they still can't do fuck all about an Afghan chucking his 1980's AK47 in a hedge and saying he's just one of the locals. Give it up lads.

[Pepe]

Largest employer in the world, need to keep all those people occupied somehow.

[Spikey M]

Make them all YouTube celebrities or something else equally as pointless.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I thought the largest two employers in the world were (in order), the Indian railways, and Our NHS.

[Pepe]

The internet thinks you are wrong, but I haven't counted them myself

[Pepe]

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2015/06/worlds-10-biggest-employers/


It’s often said that Indian Railways is the largest employer of people in the world, and if not Indian Railways, then the UK’s National Health Service.

Neither employer can take the top spot, however, which in fact goes to the US Department of Defense, which can claim over 3.2 million employees on its roster.

Indian Railways in fact lands in the number 8 spot, with a 1.4 million-strong workforce, and the NHS is in position 5 with 1.7 million employees.

[Bartholomert]

Recent thoughts:

- The recent budget cave is sickening...but perhaps very strategic. I think the GOP wants to get through a few 'signature' pieces of legislation before they go balls to the wall with funding, they want people to be upset for a week and then move on without it becoming a material issue in the eyes of the average voter. Healthcare was a big win today, so maybe they want to knock out tax reform and immigration related reforms before attacking the budget. That way they can feasibly claim 'we are the party of governing' and claim an upper hand in the messaging war and fingering pointing that inevitably follows any government shutdown.

- The Obamacare repeal going through the house, even if optically, is a huge huge win for the White House and conservatives; I'm proud of Paul Ryan and I think he gets a lot of unwarranted flak. He genuinely seems like he's doing the best he can given the circumstances, and he only has so much room to maneuver. It's important that the only No's came from the moderate RINO crowd. Who knows what the final bill will look like after it goes through the Senate, and even in it's current form it's not going to be popular, but I'm proud of Republicans for following through on their promises.

[Shindig]

America needs a regulated healthcare system to prevent dentists deciding, "Well, this Novacaine's coming out of my pocket so ... no pain relief for this patient." Building on Obamacare allows for healthcare to become standard, rather than a commercial venture.

[Henry]

Needs to be quoted in its entirety.



I won’t mince words. The health-care bill that the House of Representatives passed this afternoon, in an incredibly narrow 217-to-213 vote, is not just wrong, or misguided, or problematic or foolish. It is an abomination. If there has been a piece of legislation in our lifetimes that boiled over with as much malice and indifference to human suffering, I can’t recall what it might have been. And every member of the House who voted for it must be held accountable.


There’s certainly a process critique one can make about this bill. We might focus on the fact that Republicans are rushing to pass it without having held a single hearing on it, without a score from the Congressional Budget Office that would tell us exactly what the effects would be, and before nearly anyone has had a chance to even look at the bill’s actual text — all this despite the fact that they are remaking one-sixth of the American economy and affecting all of our lives (and despite their long and ridiculous claims that the Affordable Care Act was “rammed through” Congress, when in fact it was debated for an entire year and was the subject of dozens of hearings and endless public discussion). We might talk about how every major stakeholder group — the American Medical Association, the American Hospital Association, the AARP, the American Cancer Society Cancer Action Network, the American Heart Association, and on and on — all oppose the bill.

All that matters. But the real problem is what’s in the bill itself. Here are some of the things it does:


Takes health insurance away from at least 24 million Americans; that was the number the CBO estimated for a previous version of the bill, and the number for this one is probably higher.
Revokes the Affordable Care Act’s expansion of Medicaid, which provided no-cost health coverage to millions of low-income Americans.
Turns Medicaid into a block grant, enabling states to kick otherwise-eligible people off their coverage and cut benefits if they so choose.
Slashes Medicaid overall by $880 billion over 10 years.
Removes the subsidies that the ACA provided to help middle-income people afford health insurance, replacing them with far more meager tax credits pegged not to people’s income but to their age. Poorer people would get less than they do now, while richer people would get more; even Bill Gates would get a tax credit.
Allows insurers to charge dramatically higher premiums to older patients.
Allows insurers to impose yearly and lifetime caps on coverage, which were outlawed by the ACA. This also, it was revealed today, may threaten the coverage of the majority of non-elderly Americans who get insurance through their employers.
Allows states to seek waivers from the ACA’s requirement that insurance plans include essential benefits for things such as emergency services, hospitalization, mental health care, preventive care, maternity care, and substance abuse treatment.
Provides hundreds of billions of dollars in tax cuts for families making over $250,000 a year.
Produces higher deductibles for patients.
Allows states to try to waive the ACA’s requirement that insurers must charge people the same rates regardless of their medical history. This effectively eviscerates the ban on denials for preexisting conditions, since insurers could charge you exorbitant premiums if you have a preexisting condition, effectively denying you coverage.
Shunts those with preexisting conditions into high-risk pools, which are absolutely the worst way to cover those patients; experience with them on the state level proves that they wind up underfunded, charge enormous premiums, provide inadequate benefits and can’t cover the population they’re meant for. Multiple analyses have shown that the money the bill provides for high-risk pools is laughably inadequate, which will inevitably leave huge numbers of the most vulnerable Americans without the ability to get insurance.
Brings back medical underwriting, meaning that just like in the bad old days, when you apply for insurance you’ll have to document every condition or ailment you’ve ever had.



It is no exaggeration to say that if it were to become law, this bill would kill significant numbers of Americans. People who lose their Medicaid, don’t go to the doctor, and wind up finding out too late that they’re sick. People whose serious conditions put them up against lifetime limits or render them unable to afford what’s on offer in the high-risk pools, and are suddenly unable to get treatment.

Those deaths are not abstractions, and those who vote to bring them about must be held to account. This can and should be a career-defining vote for every member of the House. No one who votes for something this vicious should be allowed to forget it — ever. They should be challenged about it at every town hall meeting, at every campaign debate, in every election and every day as the letters and phone calls from angry and betrayed constituents make clear the intensity of their revulsion at what their representatives have done.

Perhaps this bill will never become law, and its harm may be averted. But that would not mitigate the moral responsibility of those who supported it. Members of Congress vote on a lot of inconsequential bills and bills that have a small impact on limited areas of American life. But this is one of the most critical moments in recent American political history. The Republican health-care bill is an act of monstrous cruelty. It should stain those who supported it to the end of their days.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2017/05/04/every-republican-who-voted-for-this-abomination-must-be-held-accountable/?tid=sm_tw&utm_term=.ccccdc02c02b

[Jimmy Floyd]

This stuff is just the conclusion of America's own internal logic. They need to change the logic quite urgently.

[Henry]

This stuff is just the conclusion of America's own internal logic. They need to change the logic quite urgently.

What logic do you think that is?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Manifest destiny, Go West Young Man, the American Dream etc etc. It's all about grasping and every man for himself, never about community or less still a social safety net.

[Pepe]

Jimmy has it right on this one. It manifests itself in every single area and fucks everything up.

[Lewis]

You would think an actual 'grasping and every man for himself' system would be better, since people would at least be failing (and getting dead) on their own terms, or covering their own families. This just sounds like a corporatist, worst of all worlds nightmare.

[Pepe]

At least Republicans are keeping up with their promises, amirite?

[John Arne]

What are he main benefits of the AHCA according to the GOP? I've looked online and the main things appear to be;
- Cheaper for the "average person" (middle class??)
- "Better"
- Not Obamacare...

I'm seriously struggling to find a sensible list of benefits...

[Pepe]

I think they've given up on trying to pretend they care for the people.

[Shindig]

There's too much corporate interest in every facet of American infrastructure.

Crime? Can't touch guns. Too much money riding on it.
Healthcare? We're not giving pills away for free.
Schools? Trump University's got your back.
Welfare? Erm .... have some stamps.

[Pepe]

Crime? Can't touch guns. Too much money riding on it.

Don't forget private prisons. There is actually an incentive to have more people in prison, got to keep the cash flowing.

[Shindig]

Plus the prisoners make the kevlar vests for our fighting men and women overs.... in the police.

[ItalAussie]

Manifest destiny, Go West Young Man, the American Dream etc etc. It's all about grasping and every man for himself, never about community or less still a social safety net.

It's an odd situation when I agree completely with a broad statement from Jim on politics, but there you go. We live in strange times.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I'm not as right wing as you think. I just hate the British left, and the shallow gesture politics they've adopted in the last 30 years.

[Shindig]

It's only got shallower as twitter's taken hold, too. Equality is about the state not caring about whatever you think you are. None of this celebratory wank.

[Bartholomert]

What are he main benefits of the AHCA according to the GOP? I've looked online and the main things appear to be;
- Cheaper for the "average person" (middle class??)
- "Better"
- Not Obamacare...

I'm seriously struggling to find a sensible list of benefits...

- Lowers the cost of insurance / healthcare for everybody (goods and services have costs, sorry some extra poor people don't get 'free' healthcare paid for by other people anymore)
- Lowers the amount of burden shouldered by the government (reduces the deficit) within the healthcare field
- Gives state's more power to dictate their own policies and implement innovative approaches (more federalism)

Seems like a win to me? This is what conservative reform looks like (although it could be better, it's a step in the right direction).

[Shindig]

You realise money for universal healthcare has to come from somewhere, right?

[Henry]

Lowers the cost of insurance / healthcare for everybody

Ah, the Donald Trump school of declaring that the bill does something, when there's no reason to believe that it does other than "free market!" If this worked, then costs wouldn't be (and wouldn't have been before Obamacare as well) twice what they are in comparable economies.

[Pepe]

- Lowers the cost of insurance / healthcare for everybody (goods and services have costs, sorry some extra poor people don't get 'free' healthcare paid for by other people anymore)

Unless you actually need insurance / healthcare.


- Lowers the amount of burden shouldered by the government (reduces the deficit) within the healthcare field

Why is this oh so important? And if it is, why is it not applied to other areas (military being the most obvious one)?


- Gives state's more power to dictate their own policies and implement innovative approaches (more federalism)

I always lol at the 'small governmentz!' talk of the Republicans. Then, when cities want to implement their own laws, Republicans chimp out and create state laws to forbid cities from 'federalism.' Apparently 'small government' stops at the state level.

[Henry]

Republicans only want states to have the priority over the feds because it's easier for big business to push states around. I mean, are Mississippi or Idaho likely to be able to put giant insurance companies in their place?

[niko_cee]

Ontario?

[Henry]

I knew I'd mixed that up. Idaho.

[Shindig]

Alright, I'm aboard the Mert is a Sociopath train. Siding with the government's burden rather than an essential service for all Americans clinched it.

[ItalAussie]

Proper right-wing conservatives resent the idea of society in any meaningful sense. The idea that part of the price of living in a civilized society is helping others within that society who need it is an anathema. This is the real issue they have with the healthcare laws - people losing their healthcare access is a feature, not a bug. If they deserved it, they could afford it.

What's mine is mine.

[Pepe]

Neither Mert nor Trump are 'proper right-wing conservatives.'

[ItalAussie]

Mert's pretty down-the-line I think, for all that he blusters. Trump's just a populist who is being used, which is why he initially balked when he realised that the healthcare plan would uninsure so many people.

But Ryan holds the reins, and he's a right-winger's right-winger. No spectre more horrifying than the idea that someone, somewhere might get something they don't deserve.

[Shindig]

He refers to the women he shags as numbers. Even his ex, he shows off in mugshots like a possession. Poor, nameless lass.

[Henry]

They seem to have adopted a new meme - access to healthcare. They're saying they'll improve this, and that nobody dies because of lack of access.
It's monumentally dishonest, since "access" might cost ten times what most people earn.

[Raoul Duke]

Comey's been fired: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/may/09/james-comey-fbi-fired-donald-trump

[Bernanke]

:harold:

Mess.

Edit:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C_ao2zBW0AEQ618.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C_ao2zLXkAQTb2y.jpg

He is firing him for getting him elected lol.

[ItalAussie]

It's clearly about the Russia investigation. The fact that the best they could do to try and murk that up is the Clinton email stuff is even more amusingly pathetic.

What an embarassing tinpot attempt at dictatorship.

[Shindig]

Richard Nixon was better at this.

[Bernanke]

It's clearly about the Russia investigation. The fact that the best they could do to try and murk that up is the Clinton email stuff is even more amusingly pathetic.

What an embarassing tinpot attempt at dictatorship.

It is.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/05/10/comey-firing-trump-russia-238192

The state of this article...

[Byron]

Wonder what Mert thinks.

[Magic]

Justice.

[John]

You have to wonder just how bad the Russia links are if the maths told them this would play better than letting the investigation run to completion

[Bernanke]

You have to wonder just how bad the Russia links are if the maths told them this would play better than letting the investigation run to completion

(Supposedly) they didn't think this would blow up like it did. You still have talking heads on Fox wondering why it's a big deal.

[Kikó]

It's pretty outrageous. Very interested in seeing Mert's opinion (for once).

[John Arne]

We already know Mert's response.

Brave.... Right thing to do.... Comey couldn't be trusted...

[Disco]

So he sacked him for something he knew about when he took office and said he had full confidence in him, yeah right.

I wonder if Trump only just worked out he was allowed to just sack him and thought that would be a grand idea.

[-james-]

Surely they're aware how bad this looks. How much worse was the alternative?

[Disco]

Does this affect the FBI investigation? Presumably they don't just give up on things when someone leaves.

[-james-]

Presumably he's going to appoint one of his best pals, who won't that bothered about investigating things, as head investigator.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The FBI is fucking useless as it is, can't be any worse with Clint Eastwood or Greg Norman heading it up.

[phonics]

Giuliani, for sure.

[Bernanke]

That would be amazing. That or Chris Christie.

[Kikó]

Why do we need a federal police anyway? Privatise it and let Trump security run the national security.

[phonics]

It does start to make my theory that the Republicans are absolutely going to Mugabe the fuck out of the next election more solid. It's already happened in North Carolina and I only see it getting worse.

[John]

Trump's first scheduled event today is a meeting with the Sergey Lavrov, the Russian foreign minister. :D

You almost have to admire how openly corrupt the cunt is.

[Bernanke]

http://i.imgur.com/09XNLUX.png

BUT NOW THEY PLAY SO SAD

[Kikó]

Hard to argue. Easy D.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The worst thing about Donald J. Trump's tweets are the sadact soapbox wankers with blue ticks who do a THREAD of self-aggrandising tosh as the first replies under each one.

[Raoul Duke]

Yes. That is the worst thing.

[John]

American media was banned from that meeting with Lavrov, only Russian state media was allowed in the room. It's a circus.

[Bernanke]

862800247369740290

I'm nyet a crook.

[ItalAussie]

It's truly insane that they thought this would do anything other than ridiculously fan the flames. Who's advice is he listening to?

[John]

Everyone at the White House is apparently furious with the photographs from the Lavrov meeting. One of Trump's staff is quoted as saying 'They tricked us. They lie.' :D

[phonics]

Trump also claimed yesterday that insurance for a healthy 20 year old is $15 a month, if it's anything like any health insurance I have it's closer to $250...

[Jimmy Floyd]

862800247369740290

I'm nyet a crook.
'Me and my campaign', as if he's still fighting the election.

[John]

You're not healthy, twenty, or American, Phonics.

[phonics]

I've been paying health insurance since I was 21.

edit: Oh look a basic google shows I got it bang on.

https://www.valuepenguin.com/average-cost-of-health-insurance

[Bernanke]

http://i.imgur.com/eof7y9i.png

:D asdfgh

[phonics]

His seemingly use of quotation marks makes me seethe harder than any of the blue ticks replying to him.

[Disco]

Taping conversations in the White House, that always ends well.

[Henry]

Not at all a Presidential sounding thing. But what exactly does it mean?
Is he implying that he may have access to tapes which could damage Comey, and threatening him with this?

[Disco]

It reads like a threat to release private conversations (recorded or otherwise) but who fucking knows with this clown.

[John Arne]

I thought that since Watergate - everything in the Whitehouse is recorded (including the Oval Office)?

[John]

Phone calls have all been recorded since long before Watergate, there's a corking one with Lyndon Johnson complaining to his tailor that his knife keeps falling out his pocket when he sits down and asking for more room 'from my nuts all the way around to my bunghole'. I don't know about all audio in the building though.

[Bernanke]

http://i.imgur.com/VTHwM6o.png

http://i.snag.gy/pwQWb.jpg

I'm enjoying this so much.

[John]

Now Trump is crowing over a trade agreement with China which was actually negotiated by Obama, while his lawyer has announced that his tax returns from the last ten years show no income of any kind from any Russian sources in Russia, no sir, 'with a few exceptions'.

His Presidency seems to be running much like the campaign, in that he's just up to so much shit that none of it can be fully explored or reported on because by the time the articles on him pissing in a birdbath are half written he's off to punch a child to the ground.

[John]

https://i.gyazo.com/5d53989d8622219bf191fa89a22604ae.png

:drool:

[mikem]

Manifest destiny, Go West Young Man, the American Dream etc etc. It's all about grasping and every man for himself, never about community or less still a social safety net.

This, like almost the entirety of the US healthcare debate both domestically and internationally, is just wrong. The US healthcare care setup is entirely based on a few historical quirks. Everything else is a myth.

During the world war period the US healthcare system developed differently from the rest of the world for two simple reasons. One, the War Powers Acts added wage controls and the extra labor supply of the post slave labor force created a unique set of circumstances. We had both wage controls and a more robust labor market. Medium to large sized companies got around this and kept talent by offering benefits. This was exacerbated in the post war periods when wage controls were not lifted.

So while everyone else built new systems, we did not because companies did not want to anger their labor forces. This is the backbone of why our system is so dysfunctional. The vast majority of Americans are subsidized either by the government through Medicare / Medicaid or by their employers. Also, the largest payers in the system are extremely price resistant (employer Benefits departments) are judged on employee satisfaction and not prices.

It is not the least bit sexy, but just dumb circumstances explain 90% of everything.

[Bernanke]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-revealed-highly-classified-information-to-russian-foreign-minister-and-ambassador/2017/05/15/530c172a-3960-11e7-9e48-c4f199710b69_story.html?utm_term=.f62c87f4c103


President Trump revealed highly classified information to the Russian foreign minister and ambassador in a White House meeting last week, according to current and former U.S. officials, who said that Trump’s disclosures jeopardized a critical source of intelligence on the Islamic State.

The information Trump relayed had been provided by a U.S. partner through an intelligence-sharing arrangement considered so sensitive that details have been withheld from allies and tightly restricted even within the U.S. government, officials said.

The partner had not given the United States permission to share the material with Russia, and officials said that Trump’s decision to do so risks cooperation from an ally that has access to the inner workings of the Islamic State. After Trump’s meeting, senior White House officials took steps to contain the damage, placing calls to the CIA and National Security Agency.

“This is code-word information,” said a U.S. official familiar with the matter, using terminology that refers to one of the highest classification levels used by American spy agencies. Trump “revealed more information to the Russian ambassador than we have shared with our own allies.”

https://lesleyannewarner.files.wordpress.com/2016/10/light-treason.gif?w=620

UK or the jews?

[GS]

Just enjoy it while it lasts, because it will forever discredit the doctrine of American exceptionalism.

[Lewis]

If it was that critical and sensitive how do all of these 'current and former officials' know about it, and why have they blabbed to the papers instead of keeping it in-house?

[Pepe]

It would be interesting to listen to Trump telling all this classified information. I bet the Russians are even more confused now.

[Bernanke]

750648675186147328

:rosebud:

[GS]

If it was that critical and sensitive how do all of these 'current and former officials' know about it, and why have they blabbed to the papers instead of keeping it in-house?

There's also this. Presumably if it was actually important, there would be a MASSIVE cover-up.

[Lewis]

Something that secretive would more than likely have either a very short distance between the initial reports (from where/whoever they come from) and the top, top people, or it would be set up in such a way that nobody really knows what happens to their reports. The top, top people aren't going to go lolling about Mr. President to the newspapers (if only because they would be easily identified), and how would the people lower down the chain have any idea what was said in these meetings?

Twitter is packed these days with nobodies who worked as a contractor with the lowest possible clearance at Langley for ten minutes tweeting about their 'sources' confirming every possible Trump is an idiot/Russian agent allegation made by similarly motivated nobodies. It all just happens to fit certain NARRATIVES, so nobody really bothers to think about it. Plus there is also the fact that you can't prove it never happened, and that if anyone asks Sean Spicer about it he will shit himself, so no smoke without fire mate.

[Pepe]

I wonder if it has anything to do with the aliens.

[mikem]

Something that secretive would more than likely have either a very short distance between the initial reports (from where/whoever they come from) and the top, top people, or it would be set up in such a way that nobody really knows what happens to their reports. The top, top people aren't going to go lolling about Mr. President to the newspapers (if only because they would be easily identified), and how would the people lower down the chain have any idea what was said in these meetings?

Twitter is packed these days with nobodies who worked as a contractor with the lowest possible clearance at Langley for ten minutes tweeting about their 'sources' confirming every possible Trump is an idiot/Russian agent allegation made by similarly motivated nobodies. It all just happens to fit certain NARRATIVES, so nobody really bothers to think about it. Plus there is also the fact that you can't prove it never happened, and that if anyone asks Sean Spicer about it he will shit himself, so no smoke without fire mate.

It is likely not very critical information and it is certainly not illegal for the President but everyone in the Trump admin leaks. Jared is known to leak to Sinclair, Preibus to Costa, Bannon to Lake, Cernovich, and Breitbart. McMaster and Mattis leak to contradict bad policy. Treating Trumpworld like a typical admin is wrong because they are unprofessional and sloppy. Trump does not use briefing books and wings meetings with foreign leaders. WaPo and the Times have been engaged in a ridiculous game of source counting; WaPo cited thirty sources in one article over the weekend.

Did he give away anything vital? Almost certainly not, but McMaster's statement does not deny classified information was given. He specifically says sources and methods were not revealed.

[ItalAussie]

I get that people on here like to be contrarian, but it's surely pretty clear to everyone by now that Trump's just incompetent, and miles out of his depth, right?

Like, you can complain about the liberals on twitter or whatever all you want, but at this point you'd have to have a blindfold on not to see that they're basically right about his ability, temperament, and competence.

I like to think the is elaborate performance art by Republicans to illustrate the danger of allocating power to the executive branch. :D

[GS]

Nothing that he has said or done is remotely out of keeping with what people knew they were voting for. He's empowered to sack the director of the FBI in a fit of childishness if he so wishes, for example. He can disclose classified information if he so wishes.

I think it's more of a commentary on the state of the American presidential system than anything else. If you don't really care about the politics of it, and aren't determinedly ideological, you can pretty much do what you want in the position.

Another win for the Westminster system.

[phonics]

If your President can set off a 'constitutional crisis' by doing things he's empowered to do, you've probably given too much power to the executive branch.

[GS]

I don't disagree - that's your issue isn't it.

[phonics]

It's still real bad shit even if 'it's legal' (always the worst defense you can make) tbh. The reason the FBI Director has a 10 year turnaround is exactly so they can avoid the politics of the job.

[Henry]

Obstruction of justice is not legal, and that may well have been the case where Comey was concerned.

[phonics]

There's nothing there to obstruct though. He's not done it because he feels bad for Manafort and Roger Stone. He does it because he's an incredibly insecure (and even dumber) human being to the point that anyone who doesn't pledge loyalty to The Donald has to die.

The reason he's leaked this 'secret info' isn't because he's desperate for the Russians to take over the U.S.. He's just so insecure he feels the need to impress a second rate diplomat.

"I've got great intel, the best intel Yuri. You gotta believe me, this intel is just wonderful."

That or it's an elaborate ploy where he never wanted to win in the first place and he hates it so much he's actively trying to be impeached.

[Henry]

It appears that he may have done it to obstruct an investigation into his supposed Russian links.

Which again, I think amounts to fuck all, but it still counts.

[John]

He openly admitted that when he was thinking of binning Comey he considered the Russia investigation, calling it 'fake news'.

John Oliver laughingly raised a possibility that fits quite nicely with the idea that he's just an insecure child. Comey is six foot eight, and made Trump look and feel tiny by comparison so he had to go.

[Lewis]

It is likely not very critical information and it is certainly not illegal for the President but everyone in the Trump admin leaks. Jared is known to leak to Sinclair, Preibus to Costa, Bannon to Lake, Cernovich, and Breitbart. McMaster and Mattis leak to contradict bad policy. Treating Trumpworld like a typical admin is wrong because they are unprofessional and sloppy. Trump does not use briefing books and wings meetings with foreign leaders. WaPo and the Times have been engaged in a ridiculous game of source counting; WaPo cited thirty sources in one article over the weekend.

Did he give away anything vital? Almost certainly not, but McMaster's statement does not deny classified information was given. He specifically says sources and methods were not revealed.

Yes, but the idea that he bowled into a meeting with Russians and started spewing all of this super secret information should really be approached more critically (and would be under normal circumstances).

[GS]

There are now stories that Trump asked Comey to stop the FBI investigation into Flynn. One of the clauses in the Nixon impeachment was specifically related to interfering, or attempting to interfere, in investigations undertaken by the DOJ, FBI, and others. In addition, Comey has apparently written detailed memos of all conversations and calls with Trump. The written records of FBI agents are routinely held up in court as sound evidence, because America.

Now, this raises some interesting questions. The first is that this could well be the first solid 'evidence' of Trump moving into potentially 'not legal' territory. The second is why Comey didn't resign if Trump was indeed attempting to interfere in the process.

Scenes.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I'm sticking with my 'impeached by the end of the year' shout.

[ItalAussie]

“While the President has repeatedly expressed his view that General Flynn is a decent man who served and protected our country, the President has never asked Mr. Comey or anyone else to end any investigation, including any investigation involving General Flynn,” the White House statement said.

...

“I hope you can see your way clear to letting this go, to letting Flynn go,” Trump told Comey, according to Comey’s record of the meeting, as reported by the Times. “He is a good guy. I hope you can let this go.”



Mr. Trump explained the firing by citing Mr. Comey’s handling of the investigation into Hillary Clinton’s use of a private email server.

...

Trump fired Comey last week, in a move the president said was tied to the Russia inquiry. “And in fact when I decided to just do it, I said to myself, I said: ‘You know, this Russia thing with Trump and Russia is a made-up story,’” Trump told NBC News.

They just lie. There's not even an attempt to keep their stories straight. It's like they think we're totally fine with blatant, obvious, undeniable lies.

[Pepe]

Many seem to be fine with it, unfortunately.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I'm sticking with my 'impeached by the end of the year' shout.

I should modify this. If there isn't at least a concerted attempt, then the Democrats and sensible Republicans lose any moral authority they have over the Donald.

[phonics]

Sorry Jimmy, how would that be the Democrats fault?

[Jimmy Floyd]

'Democrats and sensible Republicans', which combined form a majority in both houses and presumably, in spirit, on the Supreme Court.

[phonics]

'Democrats and sensible Republicans', which combined form a majority in both houses and presumably, in spirit, on the Supreme Court.

Two thirds of the house would require all 193 Democrats and just under half of sitting Republicans, who are more unpopular than the orange hamburgler in charge. It ain't happening.

[Bernanke]

Honestly, it's all about polling. If Donald appears to be a serious liability ahead of 2018 and 2020 the GOP will act, otherwise they will just circle around with uneasy comments or Paul Ryans "I don't know what he tweeted".

Lindsay Graham is the one who looks most likely to jump ship and lead a call for impeachment, he's been baiting Trump all week.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Two thirds of the house would require all 193 Democrats and just under half of sitting Republicans, who are more unpopular than the orange hamburgler in charge. It ain't happening.

That may be so, but they have a PATRIOTIC DUTY SIR to do it anyway.

[Henry]

Congress has an approval rating of 10%, and has for a very long time. It's going to take a hell of a lot (Trump coming down to that level) to make them any more unpopular and to want to move against him.

[phonics]

That may be so, but they have a PATRIOTIC DUTY SIR to do it anyway.

If the Republicans were more interested in being patriots for their nation than their party, Trump would never have happened.

[Henry]

So, apparently Trump also asked Comey to consider imprisoning members of the press. (http://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/16/trump-allegedly-asked-comey-to-consider-imprisoning-members-of-the-press.html)

And for what it's worth, 48% of the public now want to see him impeached, versus 41% who don't.

[John]

If Congress banded together and fucked Trump their approval rating would jump about fifty points on the spot. Their low approval rating might actually be the biggest reason that they would do it.

Some Kurds were apparently battered outside the Turkish embassy last night by elements of Erdogan's security detail while Trump had his arm round the man himself.

[Pepe]

Republicans are still getting the kind of legislation they like passed under Trump. There is no need for them to get rid of him.

[Lewis]

Honestly, it's all about polling. If Donald appears to be a serious liability ahead of 2018 and 2020 the GOP will act, otherwise they will just circle around with uneasy comments or Paul Ryans "I don't know what he tweeted".

Lindsay Graham is the one who looks most likely to jump ship and lead a call for impeachment, he's been baiting Trump all week.

Lindsay Graham could presumably be bought off by declaring war on the Moon.

[Bernanke]

Republicans are still getting the kind of legislation they like passed under Trump. There is no need for them to get rid of him.

They would under President Pence as well. Trump will be let go when he starts to really hurt their re-election chances.

Still, it's 23 dem seats and 5 GOP seats up for the senate in 2018, so they might not have to react before that. Keeping him around so that he has an effect on 2020 would be madness though.

But I guess they could always re-draw the maps a bit more.

[Pepe]

Aren't THE POLLS showing that Trump supporters are quite happy with his job so far? He'll don 'Chelsea' or any other daft choice the Democrats choose to pit him against.

[Bernanke]

42% job approval from self-proclaimed Trump-supporters just before this past week. That's genuinely awful numbers.

[phonics]

They reckon his lowest is 38% so he's got a bit to do yet.

[Henry]

John McCain, who must be 100 by now, is going to be one of very few who come out of this looking well.

[phonics]

He comes out looking good because he's a fucking asshole.

He pretends to be a 'maverick' while following exactly what everyone else is doing. It's easy to say the right thing, much harder to do it. Fuck John McCain.

[Henry]

There's probably some of that, but you have to give him credit for being decisively and loudly against Trump throughout all of this.

[phonics]

While voting for literally everything that Trump has wanted to do from one of the safest seats in the fucking world. What a brave, brave man. At least Lindsey Graham acknowledges that he's a giant asshole.

[phonics]

Roger Ailes, after running out of young female blood to feed on after his firing from Fox, has died.

[Bernanke]

http://i.imgur.com/eRll92v.png

Councel. :D

[ItalAussie]

Mert didn't even touch this thread in his most recent visit. :(

[phonics]

Nah he was just posting with efficiency


Fukin lol at this stage. What a pathetic excuse for a country.

edit: and by the way, as if by magic, McCains spokesperson has come out and walked back those comments he made. I'm shocked.

[John]

Trump used his speech to a graduating class at the coast guard academy to whine about how he's being treated. :D

"No politician in history, and I say this with great surety, has been treated worse or more unfairly."

[Magic]

It has prompted the JFK WAS LITERALLY SHOT IN FACE shit which is annoying.

[John]

I don't even want to check how many people have tweeted him a picture of Nelson Mandela, but I suspect it will be in the millions.

[Bernanke]

This Politico article about the connection between James Comey and Robert Mueller reads like a political thriller. :drool:

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/05/18/james-comey-trump-special-prosecutor-robert-mueller-fbi-215154


It is as if, after having an unrelated disagreement over movie trivia in a bar, Trump has challenged Usain Bolt to a 100-yard dash or John Cena to a cage match to the death.


Yet even amid the stress of that time, Comey didn’t hesitate to force the issue of STELLAR WIND, standing up to the vice president. During one White House meeting, Comey said he couldn’t find a legal basis for the program.

“Others see it differently,” a scowling Cheney replied.

“The analysis is flawed—in fact, fatally flawed. No lawyer reading that could reasonably rely on it,” Comey said, his hand sweeping across the table dismissively.

Cheney’s counsel, the famously aggressive David Addington, standing in the back of the room, spoke up: “Well, I’m a lawyer,” he snapped, “and I did.”

Comey shot back, “No good lawyer.”

The room went silent.

:drool: :drool: :drool:

[Bartholomert]

I don't know what fantasies they are feeding you all in your local media but most Trump supporters don't care about any of this and there are really no grounds for impeachment here. As the FBI has repeatedly said, there is no evidence of collusion. Democrats are just trying to deligitimize his presidency, like they have with every other GOP president in living memory. Same old theatre politics maybe exaggerated more than usual because it's 2017 and the SJW tendencies have become even more over the top.

It almost feels like the liberals (and smug European types desperate to reaffirm the correctness of their world view) can't emotionally handle that he's president and so are acting like irrational children, projecting their own wishes into reality. I don't know a single Trump voter who regrets their decision. Nobody I know cares about what the mainstream media says about Trump, they tuned it out a long time ago. They realize the Russia complaints are just the manifestation of Democrats being lol sore losers who don't actually believe in democracy. We won you lost. Let the man govern.

[Shindig]

Trump supporters have very little input to the impeachment process, bruv.

[Bartholomert]

Trump supporters vote. Also there's really no legal case to be made unless new information comes to light of a distinctly different nature than even the most scandalous insinuations currently floating around. The impeachment talk is objectively just stupid and ignorant. Democrat leadership is trying to keep its rank and file in order because it's so delusional.

[Bartholomert]

42% job approval from self-proclaimed Trump-supporters just before this past week. That's genuinely awful numbers.

Are you retarded. He's at around 80% with Republicans and probably higher with Trump supporters. Stop reading and believing fake news.

[Lewis]

His speech on Islam and terrorism was mostly idiotic, but it was only really normal policy, so hopefully the people intent on lolling at every single thing he does will start to question some of the assumptions it was based upon (for example, lumping 'ISIS, Al-Qaida, Hezbollah, Hamas' together as the same thing).

[John]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DAYHfpYUMAAaMES.jpg

:D

[Henry]

What the fuck is that?

[phonics]

From what I understand, it's hard to peer through the jokes, it was a symbol of 'pushing the switch to end terrorism'.

[randomlegend]

“I’m not going to cut Social Security like every other Republican and I’m not going to cut Medicare or Medicaid," Trump told The Daily Signal. “Every other Republican is going to cut, and even if they wouldn’t, they don’t know what to do because they don’t know where the money is. I do.”

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/05/22/politics/medicaid-budget-cuts/index.html


Donald Trump budget: $800 billion in Medicaid cuts

K lad.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-exhausted-skipped-saudi-arabia-forum-social-media-sends-ivanka-trump-israel-a7748546.html

Also lol.

[phonics]

My favourite part of the trip has to be the MAGA dumbasses turning into Wahabbists. These people are fucking idiots.

[phonics]

My favourite part of the trip has to be the MAGA dumbasses turning into Wahabbists. These people are fucking idiots.

I deleted my prior post so I didn't triple post because this is too perfectly timed.

866736678140030976


A Florida man living with fellow neo-Nazis said that he killed his roommates when he converted to Islam and they did not respect his new religion, according to police.

Devon Arthurs also allegedly held two customers and an employee of Tampa’s Green Planet Smoke Shop hostage with a pistol on Friday before surrendering and leading cops to the bodies of his former friends.

[Lewis]

He was in Israel today attacking Iran for the 'funding, training and equipping of terrorists and militias'. Yes mate, the ones killing ISIS in Iraq with American air support.

[Shindig]

What the fuck is that?

I assume they're all trying to gain superpowers. The comic book kind. Not nuclear supremacy.

[John]

He also said, four times and apropos of nothing, that he absolutely did not give the Russians intel shared by Israel, no way, sir. That was after he remarked, having just landed in Israel from Saudi Arabia, that he'd 'just got back from the Middle East'. The man is dangerously stupid, and it's wonderful.

[John Arne]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qogsfuz6UTs

I really struggle to understand how these intelligent American politicians believe the shit that they come out with.

One guys basically just said "The USA will defend democracy around the world, because we believe in democracy, we are democracy". Your fucking president is currently cozying up to the fucking Saudi's... your "democracy" has legalized corruption through lobbying... your redrawing of districts looks like a fucking etch-a-sketch... If that's the best democracy in the world - you can keep it.

[John]

Trump's note at Yad Vashem.

https://i.gyazo.com/1231dcc4a2deab911ca9ac2ac26ba774.png

It'd be hilarious if it wasn't so deeply sad that someone with that much power can't do better than something you'd put in the wedding guestbook of someone you used to work with.

[ItalAussie]

Trump's budget seemed ridiculously unbalanced, and it turns out the numbers only add up if you assume over 3% growth for the next decade. Given that the most optimistic projections are at 1.9%, that's a curious choice.

It's astonishing how comfortable they are with just straight-up lying. There's not even a pretence at abashedness.

[Boydy]

Has this been posted yet?

http://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/scalefit_720_noupscale/59258e791600002100ddc910.jpeg?cache=2m2ohrstop

:D

[Disco]

http://i.imgur.com/yWEl4Kc.jpg

[Henry]

Trump's budget seemed ridiculously unbalanced, and it turns out the numbers only add up if you assume over 3% growth for the next decade. Given that the most optimistic projections are at 1.9%, that's a curious choice.

It's astonishing how comfortable they are with just straight-up lying. There's not even a pretence at abashedness.

Word today is that they've made a $2,000,000,000,000 accounting error.

[Yevrah]

Yeah, I heard it was something like the public will be $2bn better off from taxation, but that $2bn will be used to do x, y, z.

Staggering if true.

[Bernanke]

867710933627490305

heh

[Henry]

Yeah, I heard it was something like the public will be $2bn better off from taxation, but that $2bn will be used to do x, y, z.

Staggering if true.

Not $2 billion. $2 trillion.
The last secretary of the treasury says that the error was such that would cause you to fail a first year economics paper.

True to form, Trumps team have dug in and defended it. :D

[Lewis]

The footage of him shaming the NATO bludgers is pretty great.

[GS]

He's completely right as well. The visible discomfort was great.

[7om]

Out the way, cuck.

https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/867757732501348352/vid/1280x720/T6v9eEVuoQpFhJAV.mp4

[Byron]

Jesus Christ :D

Someone needs to overlay that with the Stone Cold entrance.

*glass breaks*
BAH GAWD, IT'S THE DONALD! BAH ALL THAT IS HOLY, DONALD TRUMP IS HERE IN BRUSSELS AND HE DOES NOT LOOK HAPPY

[randomlegend]

He really is just a complete and utter retard. Every so often it sort of hits me again that the US really did elect him as their fucking president.

Macron absolutely donned him senseless with his handshake :drool:

[John Arne]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3FGqBGZmmI

[Henry]

:D

Is that real?

[John Arne]

Unfortunately not.

[Raoul Duke]

Just a mild bit of treason for the Trump crew today: https://www.axios.com/kushner-wanted-a-secret-comms-channel-with-kremlin-2423483132.html

[John]

869607299295330304

:D Wot?

[Pepe]

Erm..


Spent the morning talking with constituents gathered outside the office today, then popped upstairs to take a quick pic!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBGPFyMU0AAPNCV.jpg

[Reg]

There's a theory gaining momentum that Trump has dementia.

[phonics]

869649552617463808

lol

[John Arne]

869791212135260160

[Baz]

Does "Laur" know about CovFefe Lee?

[randomlegend]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump?lang=en-gb

:lol:

Still up after 5 hours.

[phonics]

Who cares? It's a typo. Every joke I've seen about that has been fucking dogshit as well.

[Bernanke]

Yeah I fail to see the MASSIVENESS about it as well.

[Byron]

Looks like the U.S. will be pulling out of the Paris Agreement.

The same agreement that was signed up to by 195 out of 197 countries. If the U.S. pulled out they would be joining Syria (who have a civil war to manage) and Nicaragua (who boycotted as they didn't feel the agreement went far enough)

[Pepe]

Hopefully less shit countries (*crickets*) will realize that international agreements are worth fuck all and start working on cleaning their own act as opposed to trying to convince everyone else to do so.

[GS]

Some of these commentators look absolutely stricken.

[Pepe]

Cleanest country on Earth. :D

[Byron]

Well it is disheartening when we actually have something approaching a common consensus and approach to climate change at threat of being dismantled because some orange baboon says 'der weather terk er jerbs!!'

[Pepe]

'At what point do they start laughing at us, as a country?'

I think that point was when you got elected mate.

[GS]

And yet he's president of the United States and a billionaire, so he's doing alright isn't he.

[Byron]

"It's great wealth. It’s phenomenal wealth. Not so long ago, we had no idea we had so much wealth."

Someone needs to send him to a GCSE English class.

[Pepe]

I wonder what they'll use that MASSIVE WEALTH for.

[Magic]

And yet he's president of the United States and a billionaire, so he's doing alright isn't he.

You're genuinely ill, aren't you.

[Shindig]

I'd do alright if I was a billionaire's son.

[Pepe]

I love this headline:


 How Do You Decide to Have a Baby When Climate Change Is Remaking Life on Earth?

[Henry]

The US is increasingly consigning itself to irrelevance on the international stage. This is just another instance of it.

[Lewis]

Isn't this the very opposite of irrelevance? It's not like Latvia has bailed on it.

[Pepe]

The relevance will surely depend on what other countries decide to do, no? If they soldier on as if nothing happened it is one thing. If they shit the bed, as they will, then you can chalk an e-victory on Tronald's board.

[Magic]

Imagine if they did their own climate plan that did far more than the Paris agreement?

:harold:

http://i.makeagif.com/media/2-13-2014/afGBMn.gif

Gawd bless murica!

[Lewis]

What actually stands to change? Won't most states just enact legislation that mirrors half of what was aimed for in the agreement? Even the ones that keep digging coal are hardly going to start poisoning the water table.

[Pepe]

Nothing will change. As I said above, these agreements are not worth much in any case. Everyone will ultimately do whatever they want to do. It is all about sending a message.

It is a bit lol to celebrate the opening of new mines though. Greatest country in the world! Come work at our coal mines!

[Magic]

What actually stands to change? Won't most states just enact legislation that mirrors half of what was aimed for in the agreement? Even the ones that keep digging coal are hardly going to start poisoning the water table.

I believe NY and Cali have already said they will uphold the agreement regardless.

[Pepe]

If he starts fucking about with subsidies then that might have an impact. Not sure he'll bother though.

[mikem]

The loss is really in soft power. We take for granted the deference (or at least positive connotation) we get that so much of the world's future ruling class goes to school here. That same thing happens from us being the party that is always at the negotiation, the military solution, or trade deals. That we mistake all that soft power for foreign aid, which is all hard power, means we lose all the benefits we get from that. China is already leading trade negotiations in Asia now that we walked from TPP. It is not necessarily in the US's interest if Europe finally gets their act together. Walking away from being first among equals at the table is different from just walking away from a seat. It is why corporate CEO's are all coming out against this.

[Bernanke]

On the topic of soft power etc., I found this article interesting:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/01/us/politics/climate-accord-trump-china-global-leadership.html


WASHINGTON — President Trump has managed to turn America First into America Isolated.

In pulling out of the Paris climate accord, Mr. Trump has created a vacuum of global leadership that presents ripe opportunities to allies and adversaries alike to reorder the world’s power structure. His decision is perhaps the greatest strategic gift to the Chinese, who are eager to fill the void that Washington is leaving around the world on everything from setting the rules of trade and environmental standards to financing the infrastructure projects that give Beijing vast influence.

Mr. Trump’s remarks in the Rose Garden on Thursday were also a retreat from leadership on the one issue, climate change, that unified America’s European allies, its rising superpower competitor in the Pacific, and even some of its adversaries, including Iran. He did it over the objections of much of the American business community and his secretary of state, Rex W. Tillerson, who embraced the Paris accord when he ran Exxon Mobil, less out of a sense of moral responsibility and more as part of the new price of doing business around the world.


“The irony here is that people worried that Trump would come in and make the world safe for Russian meddling,” said Richard N. Haass, the president of the Council on Foreign Relations, who was briefly considered, then rejected, for a top post in the new administration. “He may yet do that,” Mr. Haass added, “but he has certainly made the world safe for Chinese influence.”


That sentiment was evident on Thursday in Berlin. Just hours before Mr. Trump spoke, China’s premier, Li Keqiang, stood alongside Ms. Merkel, and used careful words as he described China as a champion of the accord. China believed that fighting climate change was a an “international responsibility,” Mr. Li said, the kind of declaration that American diplomats have made for years when making the case to combat terrorism or nuclear proliferation or hunger.

China has long viewed the possibility of a partnership with Europe as a balancing strategy against the United States. Now, with Mr. Trump questioning the basis of NATO, the Chinese are hoping that their partnership with Europe on the climate accord may allow that relationship to come to fruition faster than their grand strategy imagined.


Mr. Xi announced the sweeping initiative last month, envisioning spending $1 trillion on huge infrastructure projects across Africa, Asia and Europe. It is a plan with echoes of the Marshall Plan and other American efforts at aid and investment, but on a scale with little precedent in modern history. And the clear subtext is that it is past time to toss out the rules of aging, American-dominated international institutions, and to conduct commerce on China’s terms.

Now, the talk about the Paris deal by itself is a bit hollow given that it allowed for China to increase it's CO2 output, but things like the final bit with the whole "New Silk Road"-project does indicate that Trump might actually be accelerating a global shift with China as the leader. Sinosphere here we come.

[Lewis]

Until the South Koreans, Australians, and Israelis look to France for their defence, I'm taking all of these statements as exaggerations.

[Pepe]

If our new 'world power' China takes us all back to communism I'm all for it.

[Pepe]

It's all good though, Macrunt has released another video. :wanker:

[Bernanke]

Emmanuel Macron also invited American scientists and entrepreneurs to come work in France. "To all the scientists, entrepreneurs, engaged citicizens that were disappointed by the US president's decision," he assured them that they would "in France, find a second nation." "I am calling you: come work here, with us, on concrete solutions about climate," he added. "Tonight, America has turned its back on America, but France will never turn its back on Americans," Emmanuel Macron added.

Playing tough. :D

[mikem]

Until the South Koreans, Australians, and Israelis look to France for their defence, I'm taking all of these statements as exaggerations.

The US providing defence for either Australia or Israel is already an exaggeration. You are indispensable until people realize it is easier to do it themselves because every marketplace with an indispensable player is definitionally broken. The next round of trade negotiations in Asia is already happening and we have decided not to play. Someone will fill the void and US companies from Disney to Exxon coming out on climate agreements is the tell that we usually get what we want. Why mess with it? Over an issue that is as dead as gay marriage was in 92?

I thought I'd enjoy the death of movement conservatism but President Whoosh Whoosh Boom Boom even ruins that.