U.S. Presidential Election 2016 (Sponsored by Betty Croker's Hamburger Helper)

[Bernanke]

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/02/07/politics/kfile-gorka-on-fake-news/index.html


Sebastian Gorka, deputy assistant to President Donald Trump, said Monday that the administration will continue using the term "fake news" until the media understands that their "monumental desire" to attack the President is wrong.

"There is a monumental desire on behalf of the majority of the media, not just the pollsters, the majority of the media to attack a duly elected President in the second week of his term," Gorka, a former Breitbart editor who also holds a PhD in political science, told syndicated conservative radio host Michael Medved.

"That's how unhealthy the situation is and until the media understands how wrong that attitude is, and how it hurts their credibility, we are going to continue to say, 'fake news.' I'm sorry, Michael. That's the reality," he added.

"We will repeatedly attempt to discredit any organization which doesn't immediate blow the president."

[Disco]

They're such big babies, it's amazing.

[phonics]

De Vos lost by two votes. 48-50.

12 hours ago, this is what team Trump was telling the GOP

828789909162979328

lol

edit: Whoops, I misread. It ended in a tie with Mike Pence casting the deciding vote. De Vos passes.

[Bernanke]

Screw you phonics, got my hopes up there for a second.

De Vos really is the most blatant case of shitty nominations from this administration, and that's saying something.

[Byron]

They're such big babies, it's amazing.

I'm especially enjoying this since the Right are always so quick to moan about free speech and the right to offend, but this lot cannot take any criticism whatsoever. Trump in particular is a fucking 5 year old.

[Shindig]

I do wonder if a President can be impeached for bringing the position into disrepute.

[Pepe]

I'm especially enjoying this since the Right are always so quick to moan about free speech and the right to offend, but this lot cannot take any criticism whatsoever. Trump in particular is a fucking 5 year old.

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/the-snowflake-in-the-white-house-trump-free-speech/19409#.WJopDfkrLIU


The election of President Trump means that there is a 70-year old snowflake in the White House. The ‘leader of the free world’ is as intolerant of speech he finds offensive as any ban-happy college radical. And this presidential snowflake is empowered, not just to protest against a speaker on campus, but to attack the First Amendment to the US Constitution and try to limit the freedom of the press.

[GS]

Which is all fine isn't it, but I can't imagine the vast majority of his voters give a fuck and they're the people you need to convince. Some of his opponents are going to sneer regardless of what he does, so he might as well just go for it and ride the wave as long as he can.

That's not to say he's not bonkers, obviously, but then I wouldn't have voted for him anyway.

[Yevrah]

His Twitter feed reads like that of a teenager whose X-Box has been confiscated.

It's quite remarkable really.

[GS]

True, but we all knew that before the vote.

[Yevrah]

We did. It's just odd to see the actual President of the United States doing it.

I'm sticking with bored off or assassinated.

[John]

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/melissa-mccarthy-sean-spicer-234715

:D

The fact that a story about Trump possibly binning the most high profile member of his staff because a fucking sketch show took the piss doesn't seem completely out of bounds sums the whole administration up at the moment.

[GS]

We did. It's just odd to see the actual President of the United States doing it.

I'm sticking with bored off or assassinated.

It's surreal seeing "President Trump", it has to be said. The problem you have here is that those who were sneering beforehand have ramped it up over the last couple of weeks, as if somehow everything that's happened since has proved them right and his voters will surely have seen the error of their ways.

It's not getting them anywhere, and can be ascribed to the Ed Miliband school of pursuing something because it makes them feel good about themselves. In reality, I suspect the vast majority of Trump voters think it's great so you're not exactly going to win the argument when you've maintained a consistent position of sneering.

[Yevrah]

I'm as guilty of this as anyone, but the constant pursuit by the media (both paid and independent gobshites) to inject DRAMA into politics, turning it into a soap opera really is becoming very tiresome.

It's very reminiscent of when the Premier League morphed into the BARCLAYS PREMIER LEAGUE SPONSORED BY BARCLAYS.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Reading the referendum book I am (bringing it up everywhere I know but it's a masterpiece), one of the striking things is how facts or substance-based stories from either side would be tossed out by journalists because they were only interested in leading the news with BORIS HAHA LOL and FARAGE IS A RACIST and OH MY GOD DAVE WILL HAVE TO RESIGN.

[Yevrah]

Yep - it was fucking rife for it.

Why do all the politics threads run for hundreds of pages? Why is Twitter full of political outrage? 'We' fucking love it. It's the new Eastenders.

[Yevrah]

I'd pose the question as to when it all started to move in this direction, but I suspect I already know the response....

[Jimmy Floyd]

I dunno, Harold Wilson was pulling the same wank in the 60s.

[Lewis]

Eastenders is far more popular than this shit, which is powered by people struggling to fill the increased airtime that new media outlets provide, and barely resonates beyond the terminally sad.

[Jimmy Floyd]

More information and less of it matters. Bring back the sundial.

[Mazuuurk]

I can't get over the fact that their Secretary of Education actually said that some school in Wyoming or something probably needed guns to protect from Grizzlies. It cracks me up every time.

You see these incessant SNL caricatures, and then you watch the "real" thing, and realize SNL isn't really doing anything different than Trump et al to make it funny. Imitating as closely as you can is enough.

[Boydy]

More information and less of it matters. Bring back the sundial.
We must stand against the immediacy of modern life.

[Lewis]

More information and less of it matters. Bring back the sundial.

I can never decide whether twats having a column up within two hours drives the idiocy or merely reflects and satisfies it (chicken and egg, I suppose). Football is probably worse for it then politics, and it all stems from being unable (or unwilling) to see the wood for the trees.

[Bartholomert]

I can't get over the fact that their Secretary of Education actually said that some school in Wyoming or something probably needed guns to protect from Grizzlies. It cracks me up every time.

You see these incessant SNL caricatures, and then you watch the "real" thing, and realize SNL isn't really doing anything different than Trump et al to make it funny. Imitating as closely as you can is enough.

In some rural schools attacks by wild animals is not an unrealistic danger. It's only 'hilarious' to elitist urbanites on the East / West coasts.

[Shindig]

It's all the internet's fault. That and the decline of print circulation.

[John Arne]

If only the guns were fake.

[Magic]

I can't get over the fact that their Secretary of Education actually said that some school in Wyoming or something probably needed guns to protect from Grizzlies. It cracks me up every time.

You see these incessant SNL caricatures, and then you watch the "real" thing, and realize SNL isn't really doing anything different than Trump et al to make it funny. Imitating as closely as you can is enough.

Why is it funny then?

[Mazuuurk]

Why is it funny then?

You serious? It's like watching one of these youtube videos where kids (De Vos) try to impersonate how they see adults (Politicians) and their out-of-place replies are just funny.

I mean as a Republican Politician isn't the go-to answer for why Guns should be allowed in schools to "protect kids from shooters or terrorists"? Fucking Grizzlies! :D

[Mazuuurk]

In some rural schools attacks by wild animals is not an unrealistic danger. It's only 'hilarious' to elitist urbanites on the East / West coasts.

Oh ok. When has there EVER been a school massacre in the US carried out by a Grizzly bear? 'Cause I missed most of those to be honest.
I'll even open links with excessive use of 'z" and 'x' if you post them here.

[Magic]

You serious? It's like watching one of these youtube videos where kids (De Vos) try to impersonate how they see adults (Politicians) and their out-of-place replies are just funny.

I mean as a Republican Politician isn't the go-to answer for why Guns should be allowed in schools to "protect kids from shooters or terrorists"? Fucking Grizzlies! :D

Yeah but that's just an exact copy of reality which isn't really funny then, is it. Or it is but in the original. I don't need some shit SNL replica.

[Mazuuurk]

Yeah but that's just an exact copy of reality which isn't really funny then, is it. Or it is but in the original. I don't need some shit SNL replica.

Yeah that was exactly my point :moop:

US politics is enough of a farce on it's own.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Oh ok. When has there EVER been a school massacre in the US carried out by a Grizzly bear? 'Cause I missed most of those to be honest.
I'll even open links with excessive use of 'z" and 'x' if you post them here.

I'm sure I heard about a mountain lion eating someone at a high school once, somewhere like Colorado. Could have misremembered it.

[phonics]

My favourite thing lately has been Trump fans finding out all their favourite things think he's a dick and 'boycotting' them.

A personal favourite being a boycott of Kellogs cornflakes that they did by.... buying Kellogs cornflakes and videoing them flushing them down the toilet.

[phonics]

Oh and this one

829192230116192259

[Magic]

Yeah that was exactly my point :moop:

US politics is enough of a farce on it's own.

No it was my point. It's beyond satire making all these attempts by Baldwin etc a waste of time and not funny at all.

[Henry]

I didn't think Melissa McCarthy was that funny (and that goes for other shit she's in by the way.) Baldwin is better as Trump.

Important that the clown-show that is the Trump presidency is not "normalised" as some want it to be.

[Mazuuurk]

I'm sure I heard about a mountain lion eating someone at a high school once, somewhere like Colorado. Could have misremembered it.

Well, IF that indeed happened, I'd be somewhat surprised if the attack happened in the classroom. Where the armed - oh and trained - teacher would have supposedly been with the gun.


No it was my point. It's beyond satire making all these attempts by Baldwin etc a waste of time and not funny at all.

OK so, you also made a point. Good lad.

[Magic]

:sick:

[GS]

I didn't think Melissa McCarthy was that funny (and that goes for other shit she's in by the way.) Baldwin is better as Trump.

Important that the clown-show that is the Trump presidency is not "normalised" as some want it to be.

Yes, because de-legitimising the legitimately elected head of state is a surefire way of convincing his supporters that they were wrong.

[phonics]

Considering he's attempting to de-ligitmise the judiciary, the press and basic facts, it's probably about even. He's still banging on about how crime is at it's highest levels ever when even a cursory look shows it at it's lowest for half a century.

[Henry]

Yes, because de-legitimising the legitimately elected head of state is a surefire way of convincing his supporters that they were wrong.

His supporters were lied to as was everyone else. Trump isn't doing what he said he would. By highlighting this, supporters will turn against him.

You can stop reminding us of the fact that he was "legitimately elected", by the way. We all know that and no-one is disputing it. Criticism is warranted nonetheless.

[GS]

His supporters were lied to as was everyone else. Trump isn't doing what he said he would. By highlighting this, supporters will turn against him.

You can stop reminding us of the fact that he was "legitimately elected", by the way. We all know that and no-one is disputing it. Criticism is warranted nonetheless.

"The people were lied to, which is why they didn't agree with me, and don't hold views in accordance with acceptable opinion."

There's probably about 38% of the vote that will never desert, another few percent that stuck with him that has been rewarded for its loyalty with the Supreme Court pick. There's a few swing voters in the rust belt and Florida you need to flip - and his anti trade rhetoric, binning off TTIP etc. - will certainly be going down well there.

Given you decided Wor Jez was succeeding based on Twitter trends, the question is whether anybody is changing their minds or whether the outrage crowd have simply turned up the volume in their rush to "call it" first.

[Boydy]

Baldwin as Trump isn't funny. I don't get how people find that funny.

[GS]

American satire in general isn't funny. They try far too hard.

[Lewis]

It was all 'normalised' when half the country voted for him.

[Mazuuurk]

:sick:

:hug:

[Boydy]

American satire in general isn't funny. They try far too hard.

Yeah, I'd agree with that.

[Henry]

"The people were lied to, which is why they didn't agree with me, and don't hold views in accordance with acceptable opinion."

Nope, that's bullshit, which is why you had to make it up. They both were lied to and wouldn't have agreed with me anyway.

Trumps approval rating is 40% which is absurdly low for someone at the start of their term. George Bush's dropped to 25% at one point. He can and will lose support as he continues to fuck things up and encounters opposition to his policies.

[Mazuuurk]

Nope, that's bullshit, which is why you had to make it up. They both were lied to and wouldn't have agreed with me anyway.

Trumps approval rating is 40% which is absurdly low for someone at the start of their term. George Bush's dropped to 25% at one point. He can and will lose support as he continues to fuck things up and encounters opposition to his policies.

Bush had both 9/11 and Katrina though that both affected his approval rates quite a significantly I think?

I'm sure Katrina was a disaster for him (and everyone else), though I seem to remember 9/11 actually helping his ratings by just going to war.


Anyway - the point is those were some major events with major fallout. Trump has just been himself, in office, for a few weeks.

[Pepe]

A bear was found a few blocks away from my college back in the day and it is not even a rural area. The useless cunt didn't manage a single kill though.

[Pepe]

I have to say that I enjoy reading right-wing websites way more than the lefties. At least they have some sense of humour, in the left it is all whining.

EDIT: That only applies to stuff in the US/UK btw.

[phonics]

I too find them amusing, to look at.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4JdL7zWcAAuwnK.jpg:large

Not doing a great job at the 'not coming off as an Alien dressed in human skin' look.

[Henry]

Bush had both 9/11 and Katrina though that both affected his approval rates quite a significantly I think?

I'm sure Katrina was a disaster for him (and everyone else), though I seem to remember 9/11 actually helping his ratings by just going to war.

Anyway - the point is those were some major events with major fallout. Trump has just been himself, in office, for a few weeks.

Bush went to 90% after 9/11 and got another big boost after he'd started the war. Other than that it was a slow decline. Point being that support can be lost. 40% is not any sort of bottom.

[Bartholomert]

His supporters were lied to as was everyone else. Trump isn't doing what he said he would. By highlighting this, supporters will turn against him.

You can stop reminding us of the fact that he was "legitimately elected", by the way. We all know that and no-one is disputing it. Criticism is warranted nonetheless.

Eh? He's followed through on almost all of his promises and breakneck speed. He's incredible in this respect.

[Jimmy Floyd]

'Oh, Donald, you were incredible'

[Bartholomert]

Yeah that was exactly my point :moop:

US politics is enough of a farce on it's own.

US politics is a farce? A 19 year old Syrian refugee raped a 13 year old child anally in vaginally in a school bathroom last week and it was covered up by your press and none of the politicians would touch it. You are DELUSIONAL.

[Disco]

'Oh, Mr President, you were incredible'

I think he would insist.

[Bartholomert]

Nope, that's bullshit, which is why you had to make it up. They both were lied to and wouldn't have agreed with me anyway.

Trumps approval rating is 40% which is absurdly low for someone at the start of their term. George Bush's dropped to 25% at one point. He can and will lose support as he continues to fuck things up and encounters opposition to his policies.

Are these the same polling companies that said there was a 99% chance Trump would lose the election? How many times do they need to be wrong before you stop believing them, and start recognizing them as tools by the establishment to try and shape public opinion? Trump's executive actions so far have been popular with a plurality of voters in every instance:

https://morningconsult.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/170208_executive_order-1.png

[Disco]

Do we need to point out the irony of that post?

[Henry]

Eh? He's followed through on almost all of his promises and breakneck speed. He's incredible in this respect.

He's packed his cabinet with Wall Street knob-heads and declared that he'd dismantle Dodd-Frank (and thereby the entire economy most likely) despite declaring that he'd get tough on the financial sector. He's also rowing back on his promises to repeal Obamacare.

[Henry]

Are these the same polling companies that said there was a 99% chance Trump would lose the election?

Trump had a one-in-three chance according to the most prominent polling. This claim is another product of the echo-chamber.

[Mazuuurk]

US politics is a farce? A 19 year old Syrian refugee raped a 13 year old child anally in vaginally in a school bathroom last week and it was covered up by your press and none of the politicians would touch it. You are DELUSIONAL.

I was only talking about US right now, not about Sweden. It's not really relevant to this discussion is it? This thread and discussion is about US politics. If you want we can have a separate thread for Swedish politics, or discuss them in the European politics one. So don't divert from the fact that the man you admire so much is a complete fucking joke of a person.


And by the way, the case I think you're referring to was written by most of Swedens largest newspapers, so not sure what you are on about? :cab:

And it wasn't last week, you mook, it was early January or so.

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/krim/a/an2OL/atalas-for-valdtakt-av-13-aring-pa-skolans-toalett
http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/pR3Gj/man-fick-straffrabatt-for-valdtakt-mot-13-aring
http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/man-domd-for-valdtakt-pa-13-arig-flicka/

[Jimmy Floyd]

Polling isn't a prediction, it's a snapshot.

Why do I even bother?

[John Arne]

Fair play to Mert for keeping up with the Swedish daily's and being able to lecture Maz on what is, and is not included in them.

[Lewis]

This ladies' general strike (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/06/women-strike-trump-resistance-power) sounds productive.


Women’s conditions of life, especially those of women of color and of working, unemployed and migrant women, have steadily deteriorated over the last 30 years, thanks to financialization and corporate globalization.

I would like to know what that is based on, given the ten/fifteen per cent rise in labour participation over the same peri... Wait. Was life better in the kitchen? Was Mert right? Anyway. Sorry, love. Go on.


In embracing a feminism for the 99%, we take inspiration from the Argentinian coalition Ni Una Menos. Violence against women, as they define it, has many facets: it is domestic violence, but also the violence of the market, of debt, of capitalist property relations, and of the state; the violence of discriminatory policies against lesbian, trans and queer women; the violence of state criminalization of migratory movements; the violence of mass incarceration; and the institutional violence against women’s bodies through abortion bans and lack of access to free healthcare and free abortion.

Maybe I'm a cynical racist, but I can't help thinking that open borders and barely any prisons would more than negate the absence of 'capitalist property relations' for most ladies.

[Bernanke]

violence of the market, of debt, of capitalist property relations

jfc :D

[GS]

It's things like that which would have made it easier to vote for a Trump character than otherwise.

[Bartholomert]

Trump had a one-in-three chance according to the most prominent polling. This claim is another product of the echo-chamber.

Lol. That was widely derided as an outlier in the face of an overwhelming consensus of polling experts claiming the contrary.

[Bartholomert]

He's packed his cabinet with Wall Street knob-heads and declared that he'd dismantle Dodd-Frank (and thereby the entire economy most likely) despite declaring that he'd get tough on the financial sector. He's also rowing back on his promises to repeal Obamacare.

Cherry pick more breh; he campaigned on dismantling regulations to boost economic growth anyways so this is a poor example. He's followed through on taking action on nearly all of his promises, he's been absolutely unparalleled in his steadfastness on this front. In fact there were many articles written about how the "most surprising aspect of Trump's presidency is that he has follow through on his promises." You are talking out your ass. One example:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jan/25/donald-trump-following-through-on-campaign-promise/

[Bartholomert]

I was only talking about US right now, not about Sweden. It's not really relevant to this discussion is it? This thread and discussion is about US politics. If you want we can have a separate thread for Swedish politics, or discuss them in the European politics one. So don't divert from the fact that the man you admire so much is a complete fucking joke of a person.


And by the way, the case I think you're referring to was written by most of Swedens largest newspapers, so not sure what you are on about? :cab:

And it wasn't last week, you mook, it was early January or so.

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/krim/a/an2OL/atalas-for-valdtakt-av-13-aring-pa-skolans-toalett
http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/pR3Gj/man-fick-straffrabatt-for-valdtakt-mot-13-aring
http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/man-domd-for-valdtakt-pa-13-arig-flicka/

How long was he sent to prison again?

It's about exposing your complete lack of any authority on passing judgment on the "competence" of other governments / civil societies, much less with any tone of condescension.

[Henry]

Lol. That was widely derided as an outlier in the face of an overwhelming consensus of polling experts claiming the contrary.

That was a poll aggregator, mert. It included all polls.

[phonics]

Hey Mert, can I ask why doing everything through Executive Order when the Republicans control the House and the Senate is cool? You had very stringent issues with Obamas use of EOs.

[Lewis]

829338639360524288

:gs:

[Bartholomert]

That was a poll aggregator, mert. It included all polls.

http://election.princeton.edu/2016/11/06/is-99-a-reasonable-probability/ (99% Clinton win)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/high-probability-clinton-winning_us_581d0399e4b0e80b02ca2498 (98% Clinton win)

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-poll-idUSKBN1322J1 (90% Clinton win)

etc.

You're talking out of your ass to try and minimize the absolute FAILURE and/or open COLLUSION between the pollsters and the establishment to shape public opinion.

[Bartholomert]

Hey Mert, can I ask why doing everything through Executive Order when the Republicans control the House and the Senate is cool? You had very stringent issues with Obamas use of EOs.

Because you need to undo all the EOs that Obama did.

There's nothing wrong with EOs in principle, there are things wrong with unconstitutional EOs.

[phonics]

You just sign an EO to no longer apply. You don't write a new EO that does the opposite. I'm talking about the ones you're saying are polling really well above.

The border wall for instance, isn't an Obama EO being redirected. Yet he controls both the House and the Senate, do you agree with his need to rule by decree in these instances?

[Henry]

http://election.princeton.edu/2016/11/06/is-99-a-reasonable-probability/ (99% Clinton win)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/high-probability-clinton-winning_us_581d0399e4b0e80b02ca2498 (98% Clinton win)

etc.

You're talking out of your ass to try and minimize the absolute FAILURE and/or open COLLUSION between the pollsters and the establishment to shape public opinion.

Those are the outliers. Why did Nate Silver give him a one-in-three chance based on aggregating polls if the polls were all saying Clinton by a landslide?

[randomlegend]

The way Americans (and Turks with no sense of identity) treat MUH CONSITOOSHUN as though it's literally a deity is beyond weird.

[phonics]

God I hope they've rushed that EO so badly that even a conservative bench on the Supreme Court won't pass it. The seethe on view :drool:

[Bartholomert]

Those are the outliers. Why did Nate Silver give him a one-in-three chance based on aggregating polls if the polls were all saying Clinton by a landslide?

Should I continue?

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-poll-idUSKBN1322J1 (90% Clinton win)

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/upshot/presidential-polls-forecast.html?_r=0 (85% Clinton win)

http://predictwise.com/blog/2016/11/election-day-2016/ (90% Clinton win)

http://www.centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/articles/our-final-2016-picks/ (Electoral College Prediction: 322 - 216 for Clinton)

Dude just shut up. You are embarrassing yourself.

[Bartholomert]

The way Americans (and Turks with no sense of identity) treat MUH CONSITOOSHUN as though it's literally a deity is beyond weird.

Yeah I know rule of law and enshrining our basic freedoms, so LOL!


God I hope they've rushed that EO so badly that even a conservative bench won't pass it. The seethe on view :drool:

Yeah it's legal. Very very legal.

[Pepe]

:gs:

:D


The way Americans (and Turks with no sense of identity) treat MUH CONSITOOSHUN as though it's literally a deity is beyond weird.

Especially when you actually look at the bloody thing (I know I repeat myself.)

At least I can agree with mert about something: Polls are used to shape public opinion. More of a media thing than THE ESTABLISHMENT imo, but then again, they are one and the same.

[Henry]

Should I continue?

Probably not, since all you're saying with those is that Clinton was the favourite. A one in ten chance is still a chance, and Trump's victory was based on three million fewer votes than his rival; a statistical anomaly.

[Pepe]

If I was a right wing wanker, I am not sure I would be very happy with Trump's use of executive orders. Just seems the lazy way of doing things instead of using his congress majority. All it means is that they will all be undone in four years (eight init?)

[Bartholomert]

Probably not, since all you're saying with those is that Clinton was the favourite. A one in ten chance is still a chance, and Trump's victory was based on three million fewer votes than his rival; a statistical anomaly.

Lol you just got exposed. Better luck next time.

[Lewis]

If I was a right wing wanker, I am not sure I would be very happy with Trump's use of executive orders. Just seems the lazy way of doing things instead of using his congress majority. All it means is that they will all be undone in four years (eight init?)

Maybe you don't comprehend very well.

[Pepe]

Racist. Reported.

[phonics]

Yeah it's legal. Very very legal.

Something can't be very legal. Your God Emperors way with words is rubbing off on you.

[John]

US politics is a farce? A 19 year old Syrian refugee raped a 13 year old child anally in vaginally in a school bathroom last week and it was covered up by your press and none of the politicians would touch it. You are DELUSIONAL.

How do you still not understand that pointing out a shitty situation elsewhere isn't in any way a rebuttal to someone saying something is shitty about America? You're supposed to be a lawyer. Sweden could be forming an ersatz government made entirely of children with learning difficulties for all their situation matters when Maz correctly says that US politics is a circus.

[Lewis]

Racist. Reported.

Fake news!

[Disco]

GloomyEachGalapagospenguin

[phonics]

That account is fantastic by the way.

[Bartholomert]

How do you still not understand that pointing out a shitty situation elsewhere isn't in any way a rebuttal to someone saying something is shitty about America? You're supposed to be a lawyer. Sweden could be forming an ersatz government made entirely of children with learning difficulties for all their situation matters when Maz correctly says that US politics is a circus.

Credibility of expert witness breh. It's very lawyer like.

[Bartholomert]

Something can't be very legal. Your God Emperors way with words is rubbing off on you.

It's constitutionality can be more or less clear-cut / debatable. Think a 9-0 SCOTUS ruling versus 5-4. It also affects the potential for overruling of a precedent.

[John]

Credibility of expert witness breh. It's very lawyer like.

He's not an expert witness, he's an outside observer. And if Swedish politics are also a mess that doesn't matter because he's not a Swedish politician.

[Spikey M]

I too find them amusing, to look at.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4JdL7zWcAAuwnK.jpg:large

Not doing a great job at the 'not coming off as an Alien dressed in human skin' look.

What the fuck is he? :|

[Bartholomert]

He's not an expert witness, he's an outside observer. And if Swedish politics are also a mess that doesn't matter because he's not a Swedish politician.

He's part of the Swedish polity.

[Spikey M]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2NqjfqIgAAXt-_.jpg

[randomlegend]

http://www.phillyvoice.com/pennsylvania-senator-trump-come-after-me-you-s-gibbon/


fascist, loofa-faced shit-gibbon

:D

[Bartholomert]

Maz, what do you think about this:

https://www.facebook.com/peter.springare

[Mazuuurk]

How long was he sent to prison again?

It's about exposing your complete lack of any authority on passing judgment on the "competence" of other governments / civil societies, much less with any tone of condescension.

You're still avoiding the topic: Trump is a complete clown.


We're talking about the US, so stop bringing Sweden into this, we can discuss that separately. But for the record - I can tell you I wholeheartedly agree the sentencing of that man was too short. There are some laws in Sweden limiting the lenght of people under 18 (he was - arguably - 17 at the time of the crime) to serve long prison sentences. There are both upsides and downsides to that, but in this case it's a downside.

In fact I think the punishments we dish out for rape (once convicted) are way to short in Sweden. That's often the case in many countries actually.

[Mazuuurk]

Maz, what do you think about this:

https://www.facebook.com/peter.springare


He seems to talk about the fact that immigrants are overrepresented in certain types of crime. That's fairly common knowledge, since they are often poorly intergated into society or on the lower tier of the economical spectrum. It's like saying crime is more common in Paris suburbs than in 16eme Arrondissement or you're more likely to get stabbed in southeast London than in Notting Hill. I see what point you're trying to make, but it doesn't stick.

[Bernanke]

In fact I think the punishments we dish out for rape (once convicted) are way to short in Sweden. That's often the case in many countries actually.

Agreed.

Regarding Springare, I think it fundamentally is a good thing that information about the background of people committing crimes is made public (even though this is "hearsay" rather than cold hard stats). Sweden has had issues in media reporting in this area, although not to the extent that fringe right groups/Mert would have you believe. The more problematic area is that BRÅ (Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention) hasn't publicized anything on the topic since 2005:

http://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/krav-ny-undersokning-av-utrikesfodda-och-brott

[Henry]

Lol you just got exposed. Better luck next time.

Maybe you can explain how I'm wrong rather than lolling.

[Magic]

He seems to talk about the fact that immigrants are overrepresented in certain types of crime. That's fairly common knowledge, since they are often poorly intergated into society or on the lower tier of the economical spectrum. It's like saying crime is more common in Paris suburbs than in 16eme Arrondissement or you're more likely to get stabbed in southeast London than in Notting Hill. I see what point you're trying to make, but it doesn't stick.

High immigration areas? Good point m8

[Mazuuurk]

High immigration areas? Good point m8

What are you on about?

[Magic]

His point is valid and it does stick. Whether you like it or not it is what it is.

[Mazuuurk]

Can you explain what that point is, then? Because if it is that high immigration areas have high crime, then that's not what I mean.
That's obvious, and everyone knows that.

[Bartholomert]

You're still avoiding the topic: Trump is a complete clown.


We're talking about the US, so stop bringing Sweden into this, we can discuss that separately. But for the record - I can tell you I wholeheartedly agree the sentencing of that man was too short. There are some laws in Sweden limiting the lenght of people under 18 (he was - arguably - 17 at the time of the crime) to serve long prison sentences. There are both upsides and downsides to that, but in this case it's a downside.

In fact I think the punishments we dish out for rape (once convicted) are way to short in Sweden. That's often the case in many countries actually.

How long? How long for raping and ruining a child's life? Do those advocating for open borders, such as yourself, do you sleep soundly at night knowing YOU are responsible for that animal coming into your country? Do you feel remorse?

Do you disagree with him being charged with a crime for exercising his right to free speech? Or do you not believe in basic civil rights either?

[Magic]

Can you explain what that point is, then? Because if it is that high immigration areas have high crime, then that's not what I mean.
That's obvious, and everyone knows that.

Didn't realise poor integration and being poor led to excusing rape etc.

[Bartholomert]

He seems to talk about the fact that immigrants are overrepresented in certain types of crime. That's fairly common knowledge, since they are often poorly intergated into society or on the lower tier of the economical spectrum. It's like saying crime is more common in Paris suburbs than in 16eme Arrondissement or you're more likely to get stabbed in southeast London than in Notting Hill. I see what point you're trying to make, but it doesn't stick.

Then why are you bringing criminals into your country? Is it because you want your children to be raped more? Is it because you don't want to provide an adequate education for the next generation? Is it so that your pensioners will not receive adequate care, after paying into their system for their entire lives?

You are an apologist for heinous crimes against your people because, 'well you know our vast unparalled social welfare program just wasn't providing an adequate support system for these people although they are living better than 99% of all human who have ever lived in human history who chose not to rape children"

What's the reason aside from treason and cowardice?

[Magic]

Mert you are training to be a lawyer, you have to present an opposing argument in a reasoned way.

[Bartholomert]

Mert you are training to be a lawyer, you have to present an opposing argument in a reasoned way.

He's a Leftist, if logic and reason were relevant he wouldn't be spouting the nonsense he currently is. It boils down to a "humanitarian" argument and a "commitment to diversity! and helping migrants in unfortunate situations!"

This is what "empathy" looks like. He needs to be made to see the victims and the actual costs of his selfish emotionally self-serving views.

[Bartholomert]

The child rapist, the 19-year old Syrian refugee who vaginally and anally raped a 13-year old child in her school bathroom, was sent to prison for 3 months for those of you who were wondering.

3 fucking months.

History will judge us.

[Pepe]

:harold:

[Spikey M]

You'll find no red blooded WASPs like Mert raping children, that's for sure.

I mean, Mert has been clear about the high level of respect he has for young women and teenagers.

[Pepe]

Lol. (http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/01/us/brock-turner-release/)

http://i2.cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/160608090607-brock-turner-mugshot-exlarge-169.jpg

[Henry]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38914598


President Donald Trump's nominee for the Supreme Court has described the president's attacks on the judiciary as "disheartening and demoralising".

:lol:

[Henry]

Also, did the Press Secretary of the fucking President of the United States of America just attack Nordstrom's in a press conference because they discontinued the President's daughter's fashion line?

:lol:

[Bernanke]

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-putin-idUSKBN15O2A5


In his first call as president with Russian leader Vladimir Putin, Donald Trump denounced a treaty that caps U.S. and Russian deployment of nuclear warheads as a bad deal for the United States, according to two U.S. officials and one former U.S. official with knowledge of the call.

When Putin raised the possibility of extending the 2010 treaty, known as New START, Trump paused to ask his aides in an aside what the treaty was, these sources said.

Trump then told Putin the treaty was one of several bad deals negotiated by the Obama administration, saying that New START favored Russia. Trump also talked about his own popularity, the sources said.

The White House declined to comment. It referred Reuters to the official White House account issued after the Jan. 28 call, which did not mention the discussion about New START.

This guy. :lol: Imagine being a fly on the wall for diplomatic exchanges around the world right now.

"Did you talk to him?"
"Yeah, he called my mother a whore and my father a cuck."
"Ah, well, in our call he demanded that Australia pay back all the Australian Dollars we have, because 'dollars are American'..."

[Jimmy Floyd]

Also, did the Press Secretary of the fucking President of the United States of America just attack Nordstrom's in a press conference because they discontinued the President's daughter's fashion line?

:lol:

Of all the problems people should have with Trump, this blending of the personal and presidential is number one.

[Bartholomert]

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-putin-idUSKBN15O2A5



This guy. :lol: Imagine being a fly on the wall for diplomatic exchanges around the world right now.

"Did you talk to him?"
"Yeah, he called my mother a whore and my father a cuck."
"Ah, well, in our call he demanded that Australia pay back all the Australian Dollars we have, because 'dollars are American'..."

So you're still believing the fake news which is "sources say"...

...why the hell would a Trump insider leak this sort of damaging information? It's ridiculous. Use your brain.

[Bartholomert]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38914598

:lol:

This is a good thing. Shows he will be an independent justice, unswayed by the politics of the moment. I would not be surprised if the Republicans planned this to make his confirmation easier.

[John]

The child rapist, the 19-year old Syrian refugee who vaginally and anally raped a 13-year old child in her school bathroom, was sent to prison for 3 months for those of you who were wondering.

3 fucking months.

History will judge us.

The non-refugee who sexually assaulted my sister and five other girls when they were all under the age of sixteen got a year and served nine months. It's a problem with the judicial response to sex crimes, not the border policy for war refugees. His sentence is entirely irrelevant to the point you're trying to make.

[Magic]

He's a Leftist, if logic and reason were relevant he wouldn't be spouting the nonsense he currently is. It boils down to a "humanitarian" argument and a "commitment to diversity! and helping migrants in unfortunate situations!"

This is what "empathy" looks like. He needs to be made to see the victims and the actual costs of his selfish emotionally self-serving views.

Who is the victim? The young 'uns that have known nothing but war, violence, death?

[Bartholomert]

The non-refugee who sexually assaulted my sister and five other girls when they were all under the age of sixteen got a year and served nine months. It's a problem with the judicial response to sex crimes, not the border policy for war refugees. His sentence is entirely irrelevant to the point you're trying to make.

"Sexual assault" is not the same as forced anal and vaginal rape.

[John]

Six victims isn't the same as one victim. The point stands unchanged, while you stand in the long grass wanking.

[Bernanke]

Is there unforced rape?

[Mazuuurk]

Mert I will take your continuous ignoring of the real statement here - that Trump is a fucking clown - as acquiescence. Glad you finally realize you are in awe of someone who is quite probably even more stupid than yourself. But then in your backward world, I guess that might make sense.


Now...


How long? How long for raping and ruining a child's life? Do those advocating for open borders, such as yourself, do you sleep soundly at night knowing YOU are responsible for that animal coming into your country? Do you feel remorse?

Do you disagree with him being charged with a crime for exercising his right to free speech? Or do you not believe in basic civil rights either?

First: How long? Hell if I know, I don't know much about Law. Isn't that your domain? I know the standard-ish penalty in Sweden is 1-3 years, usually it always seems to short. Personally I think it should be at least 10, probably more even still. The problems lie in the greyzones of proving it, of course, which is why I suspect the penalties have remained so "lenient" throughout the years.

Second:
How do you know my stance on border control? In fact - what do you even know of my political stances? Other than assumptions you make just because I'm Swedish. Can you explain to me how I'm personally in any way responsible for this 13-year old kid getting raped? Hmm?

Third:
I did some Googling, and by deduction of how you describe the nature of the rape, I can guess where the information you have read originally comes from - and I can tell you that isn't a very credible source (Aftonbladet & Expressen are fairly credible).



Then why are you bringing criminals into your country? Is it because you want your children to be raped more? Is it because you don't want to provide an adequate education for the next generation? Is it so that your pensioners will not receive adequate care, after paying into their system for their entire lives?

You are an apologist for heinous crimes against your people because, 'well you know our vast unparalled social welfare program just wasn't providing an adequate support system for these people although they are living better than 99% of all human who have ever lived in human history who chose not to rape children"

What's the reason aside from treason and cowardice?

Again, Mert, why are you talking as if I personally brought a bunch of immigrants hell-bent on raping and pillaging into Sweden? "OK lads, you're across the border, have at it, the nearest highschool is three miles that way". Yeah?

The truth is you know very little about me, and very little about my country (the latter is obvious). Having been to Stockholm on vacation once doesn't teach you everything there is about Sweden.

Also, can you explain what "My people" is? I don't really identify with any kind of "people", other than Swede and European.


He's a Leftist, if logic and reason were relevant he wouldn't be spouting the nonsense he currently is. It boils down to a "humanitarian" argument and a "commitment to diversity! and helping migrants in unfortunate situations!"

This is what "empathy" looks like. He needs to be made to see the victims and the actual costs of his selfish emotionally self-serving views.


I don't identify as a leftist, Mert. Over the course of my life, I've voted just about as much towards the right as towards the left. My thoughts on different topics tend to sway a lot on the traditional political spectrum depending on the topic - so I usually end up half left, half right and thus somewhere in the middle.

However, I do think it's a good thing to be Empathic and Humanitarian. I also think diversity is natural in a globalised world, and generally good. I'm not daft enough to think that anything comes without drawbacks or difficulties you have to deal with.

[Disco]

Guys can you take this to the Anal and Vaginal Rape Thread please.

[Mazuuurk]

Didn't realise poor integration and being poor led to excusing rape etc.

What? Hmm. You're misunderstanding me here. Of course there's no "excuse" for rape or any kind of crime. What I meant is that crime stems from mainly economical disadvantages, not from where in the world you are from. Misogony exists everywhere. And while certain cultures certainly are more prone to it, I reject the generalizations. Likewise, people who have been subjected to war (and quite possibly through that rape themselves btw) seem to me more likely to be involved in crime.

The problem is not receiving these people, the problem is receiving them without really having much of a plan or resources for how to help them get on their feet. Of course an individual can never blame a state or anyone else for a crime, but a state should try to minimize crime.

[Spikey M]

Guys can you take this to the Anal and Vaginal Rape Thread please.

Link? :eyemouth:

[Mazuuurk]

"Sexual assault" is not the same as forced anal and vaginal rape.

No credible source in Swedish specifies the nature of the rape as anything other than "intercourse".

That doesn't really matter, it's still horrendous. I just want to point out that you're reading stuff that's quoting bad sources.

[Spikey M]

I can't help but fear that being unable to a) understand a simple point - and - b) Engage in an argument beyond repeating your opening statement ad infinitum may hinder a career in Law.

[Mazuuurk]

You would have thought, but it seems in the US that makes you president material.

[Magic]

I can't help but fear that being unable to a) understand a simple point - and - b) Engage in an argument beyond repeating your opening statement ad infinitum may hinder a career in Law.


What? Hmm. You're misunderstanding me here. Of course there's no "excuse" for rape or any kind of crime. What I meant is that crime stems from mainly economical disadvantages, not from where in the world you are from. Misogony exists everywhere. And while certain cultures certainly are more prone to it, I reject the generalizations. Likewise, people who have been subjected to war (and quite possibly through that rape themselves btw) seem to me more likely to be involved in crime.

The problem is not receiving these people, the problem is receiving them without really having much of a plan or resources for how to help them get on their feet. Of course an individual can never blame a state or anyone else for a crime, but a state should try to minimize crime.

As far as I'm aware i believe there is pretty good support for refugees. They don't just get left to their own devices.

[Mazuuurk]

As far as I'm aware i believe there is pretty good support for refugees. They don't just get left to their own devices.

Well to an extent, and up to the point where we would receive "standard" amounts of refugees. But what I think happened during that big "crisis" was we bit off more than we were prepared to chew. In the end we closed our borders.

At the same time, I suppose no one else would be prepared to receive "enough" refugees to help everyone. I'm not sure what the best way of handling it all is.

[Magic]

But didn't your country (state and citizens) beg them to come?

#refugeeswelcome

[Bartholomert]

What? Hmm. You're misunderstanding me here. Of course there's no "excuse" for rape or any kind of crime. What I meant is that crime stems from mainly economical disadvantages, not from where in the world you are from. Misogony exists everywhere. And while certain cultures certainly are more prone to it, I reject the generalizations. Likewise, people who have been subjected to war (and quite possibly through that rape themselves btw) seem to me more likely to be involved in crime.

The problem is not receiving these people, the problem is receiving them without really having much of a plan or resources for how to help them get on their feet. Of course an individual can never blame a state or anyone else for a crime, but a state should try to minimize crime.

Who integrated the East Asian immigrants in the US? Weird I don't remember a rape epidemic ever happening???

[Bartholomert]

Mert I will take your continuous ignoring of the real statement here - that Trump is a fucking clown - as acquiescence. Glad you finally realize you are in awe of someone who is quite probably even more stupid than yourself. But then in your backward world, I guess that might make sense.


Now...



First: How long? Hell if I know, I don't know much about Law. Isn't that your domain? I know the standard-ish penalty in Sweden is 1-3 years, usually it always seems to short. Personally I think it should be at least 10, probably more even still. The problems lie in the greyzones of proving it, of course, which is why I suspect the penalties have remained so "lenient" throughout the years.

Second:
How do you know my stance on border control? In fact - what do you even know of my political stances? Other than assumptions you make just because I'm Swedish. Can you explain to me how I'm personally in any way responsible for this 13-year old kid getting raped? Hmm?

Third:
I did some Googling, and by deduction of how you describe the nature of the rape, I can guess where the information you have read originally comes from - and I can tell you that isn't a very credible source (Aftonbladet & Expressen are fairly credible).




Again, Mert, why are you talking as if I personally brought a bunch of immigrants hell-bent on raping and pillaging into Sweden? "OK lads, you're across the border, have at it, the nearest highschool is three miles that way". Yeah?

The truth is you know very little about me, and very little about my country (the latter is obvious). Having been to Stockholm on vacation once doesn't teach you everything there is about Sweden.

Also, can you explain what "My people" is? I don't really identify with any kind of "people", other than Swede and European.




I don't identify as a leftist, Mert. Over the course of my life, I've voted just about as much towards the right as towards the left. My thoughts on different topics tend to sway a lot on the traditional political spectrum depending on the topic - so I usually end up half left, half right and thus somewhere in the middle.

However, I do think it's a good thing to be Empathic and Humanitarian. I also think diversity is natural in a globalised world, and generally good. I'm not daft enough to think that anything comes without drawbacks or difficulties you have to deal with.

1. I'm glad your views on sentencing periods for rape of a minor is sane
2. You've voiced your apologist views on refugees and mass immigration many times. By lending support and credibility to these policies, you are complicit in the sexual crimes now being committed against Swedish women at unprecedented levels.
3. I've known plenty of Swedes, had very close Swedish friends, and spent months at a time in Sweden. I've visited on a number of occasions. Does it make me an expert, absolutely not. Do I have a vague idea of the sort of mentalities rampant right now among the educated / affluent male population in particular, yes.
4. Being Centrist in Sweden, is being a radical Leftist just about anywhere else.
5. You only care about being empathetic and humanitarian on a surface level; in this case, saying YES! to refugees and making excuses for their behavior (it's the Swedes who are to blame!! We aren't being nice enough!!). You don't care about being empathetic and humanitarian to the rape and violent crime victims. You are promoting evil. You need to recognize that. You are endangering your own children.

[Bartholomert]

No credible source in Swedish specifies the nature of the rape as anything other than "intercourse".

That doesn't really matter, it's still horrendous. I just want to point out that you're reading stuff that's quoting bad sources.

So the sources which promotes the liberal narrative above truth?

[Mazuuurk]

When have I ever condoned any kind of crime, whether rape or otherwise? "Excused" any such behaviour? Huh?

If you, as a nation, receive a whole bunch of war-scarred immigrants, you have to be prepared to handle that. It's a bit as if you decide you need to shut down a prison or a mental institution because you can't afford it any longer. How do you handle that? Oftentimes, not very well.

Does that mean you should let people die in their own countries instead? Probably not, no. There we disagree. Very sorry for "promoting evil".

Nothing is as binary as you make things out to be.

[Magic]

Please bear in mind that safe countries with similar values culturally were available at the time.

[Mazuuurk]

So the sources which promotes the liberal narrative above truth?

Wherever I've read about it it's been fairly professionally reported. I.e. no judgement or suppositions. Which is how journalism should be.

And yes, Expressen and Aftonbladet are both fairly credible sources. I also found an article on SVT.se which is a tad more credible. They all say the same thing.

I did find the less credible ones, like Avpixlat and a plethora of blogs. They all report about the same thing, essentially, but the latter are commenting on the particularity of certain things. That's not really relevant if you're just reporting factually about a crime. A crime is a crime, no matter who committed it and why.

[Mazuuurk]

Please bear in mind that safe countries with similar values culturally were available at the time.

They were?

[Magic]

They were?

Yes.

[Byron]

Of all the problems people should have with Trump, this blending of the personal and presidential is number one.

Now Kellyanne Conway (that's personal presidential aide Kellyanne Conway) has told Fox viewers to 'go buy Ivanka's stuff'

Even the Republicans are taken aback at the moment but it's nothing less than they deserve.

[Shindig]

That's dangerously close to conflicts of interest there.

[Bartholomert]

When have I ever condoned any kind of crime, whether rape or otherwise? "Excused" any such behaviour? Huh?

If you, as a nation, receive a whole bunch of war-scarred immigrants, you have to be prepared to handle that. It's a bit as if you decide you need to shut down a prison or a mental institution because you can't afford it any longer. How do you handle that? Oftentimes, not very well.

Does that mean you should let people die in their own countries instead? Probably not, no. There we disagree. Very sorry for "promoting evil".

Nothing is as binary as you make things out to be.

You would rather your own children and countrymen suffer than people in a far away country you have no jurisdiction over, who are responsible in part for the conflicts in their own nation, who are unwilling to fight for their own freedom, and take in these people knowing that you CAN NEVER ACTUALLY MAKE A MEANINGFUL DENT IN THE OVERALL SUFFERING, while brain draining the highest quality citizens who COULD actually make a difference in those countries in the future.

That. Is. Insanity. It is emotionally self-serving myopoic insanity.

[Pepe]

'Highest quality citizens.' I like that.

[Mazuuurk]

You would rather your own children and countrymen suffer than people in a far away country you have no jurisdiction over, who are responsible in part for the conflicts in their own nation, who are unwilling to fight for their own freedom, and take in these people knowing that you CAN NEVER ACTUALLY MAKE A MEANINGFUL DENT IN THE OVERALL SUFFERING, while brain draining the highest quality citizens who COULD actually make a difference in those countries in the future.

That. Is. Insanity. It is emotionally self-serving myopoic insanity.

I have not said any of that :cab:
You are all kinds of special, do you know that?

[Yevrah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38927175

Ban suspension upheld.

Makes Trump look like a bit of a cunt that.

[phonics]

The President of the United States is currently posting in all caps 'SEE YOU IN COURT'.

So good. There are some juicy bits in the opinion (comment? I'm no lawyer, the thing they release to justify the decision made) basically calling every argument made on their behalf retarded or with name evidence.

[Queenslander]

After following this Ivanka stuff I'm eagerly waiting for a bookie to offer value for impeachment.

[Bernanke]

Lol, Donny boy you just saw them in court.

[randomlegend]

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump

If anyone hasn't actually scrolled through his twitter (I hadn't, only read the tweets that got posted elsewhere) then take a few minutes to.

It really defies belief.

[wullie]

Nothing scares judges more than being in court.

[Dark Soldier]

The Breitbart (lol) exclusive post decision interview with Spicer is some laughable fucking high school shit. LEGIT NEWS

https://twitter.com/ashleyfeinberg/status/829855768434397187

[John Arne]

Why the focus on one rape case in Sweden?
A 20 second Google reveals that there were 160,000 recorded incidents of sexual assault or rape in the US in 2013. Additionally, only 2 in 100 incidents of rape result in time being served.
Perhaps the US should deport all Americans, too...

[Shindig]

On January 23, 2017, the liberal watchdog group, Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, filed a civil action against President Donald Trump, alleging that he is in violation of a constitutional provision that bars him from taking gifts or payments from foreign governments. [145][146][147][148]

Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington stated that because Trump-owned buildings take in rent, room rentals and other payments from foreign governments, the president has breached the Emoluments Clause. The Constitution says, "no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under the United States, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State." [149]

That's an interesting take on that law. I wonder how many active lawsuits Trump still pursues? It was 75 until he paid those Uni kids off.

[niko_cee]

Hasn't he stuck everything in a 'blind trust' to get around that? It'll be a fudge of monumental proportions, but I doubt it'll sink him. His reaction to the supreme court lolling his executive order(s) out of existence could though.

[John]

I thought he was just leaving the children in charge.

[Mazuuurk]

Why the focus on one rape case in Sweden?
A 20 second Google reveals that there were 160,000 recorded incidents of sexual assault or rape in the US in 2013. Additionally, only 2 in 100 incidents of rape result in time being served.
Perhaps the US should deport all Americans, too...


Because Merts hero and the country he's leading is falling to pieces, he has to try to look elsewhere for comfort.

It's like a kid in the playground who pissed himself, so he's running around throwing water on everyone else's trousers.

[ItalAussie]

Seems like winning made mert angrier. Hard to imagine what he'll be like after four years of winning so much he'll be tired of winning.

Probably won't be good for his blood pressure.

[ItalAussie]

Of all the problems people should have with Trump, this blending of the personal and presidential is number one.
Jim speaks the truth here.

The courts should stop anything Trump does that is actually illegal, so we're really left with what is worryingly unethical.

[phonics]

The Breitbart (lol) exclusive post decision interview with Spicer is some laughable fucking high school shit. LEGIT NEWS

https://twitter.com/ashleyfeinberg/status/829855768434397187

I saw this this morning. It's incredible stuff. I would have been sacked if I'd put something like that out.

Who shoots a one camera interview and then decides to go walk about :D Amazing.

[phonics]

Actually found Merts frat.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4L5q9rWEAIZIw6.jpg

[Pepe]

Where's your hat mert?

[Dark Soldier]

Every single face is punchable.

[John Arne]

Trump and Abe live...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7gp5A5TK0M

[Lewis]

Tojo cucked him good and proper with his dominant handshake (but then they are experts (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkNaHI603zI)).

[John Arne]

Abe getting his stooge to ask a question about South China Sea security (despite Trump trying to end the conference) at the end :drool:

[Disco]

Tojo cucked him good and proper with his dominant handshake (but then they are experts (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkNaHI603zI)).

Trump is at a natural disadvantage to begin with on this.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Tojo cucked him good and proper with his dominant handshake (but then they are experts (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkNaHI603zI)).

When the board finally dies, the last 5 posts will just be you and me doing Banzai references at six month intervals.

[Shindig]

I miss that show more than I probably should.

[Lewis]

lol at Tim Farron giving it the big'un (http://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/keep_this_racist_out_of_our_parliament_trump_is_no t_welcome_1_4885974?platform=hootsuite) like he matters:


Speaking to both Houses of Parliament is a rare honour, the highest honour we can offer. In the past we have hosted speeches from world leaders in equality, justice and human rights from Mandela to Obama to Aung San Suu Kyi. Trump does not belong alongside these names.

Tim, mate. Have a quick Google of Burma.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Why does Obama get put on that level? I'm sure he's a lovely bloke, but Mandela actually did stuff.

[Bernanke]

https://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/files/2017/02/lookatme.gif
https://media.giphy.com/media/26gseYd505bIDItYQ/giphy.gif
https://media.giphy.com/media/l3q2w610bCJrozjCU/source.gif

:harold:

[Lewis]

You forget how tragic that website is. Elsewhere, you've got Alastair Campbell moaning about 'using The Queen as a bargaining chip', A. C. Grayling seething about sex dolls not getting a vote, and a restaurant critic having a lengthy go at Jacob Rees-Mogg for what reads like no reason.

Piss that bed, lads. Piss that bed.

[Disco]

I'm obsessed with his tie, does he make it so long on purpose or does he just buy yuge ones?

[Jimmy Floyd]

You forget how tragic that website is. Elsewhere, you've got Alastair Campbell moaning about 'using The Queen as a bargaining chip', A. C. Grayling seething about sex dolls not getting a vote, and a restaurant critic having a lengthy go at Jacob Rees-Mogg for what reads like no reason.

Piss that bed, lads. Piss that bed.

This one?

http://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/who_is_jacob_rees_mogg_1_4883424

It's like watching a fish die.

[GS]

lol at Tim Farron giving it the big'un (http://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/keep_this_racist_out_of_our_parliament_trump_is_no t_welcome_1_4885974?platform=hootsuite) like he matters:


Speaking to both Houses of Parliament is a rare honour, the highest honour we can offer. In the past we have hosted speeches from world leaders in equality, justice and human rights from Mandela to Obama to Aung San Suu Kyi. Trump does not belong alongside these names.

Tim, mate. Have a quick Google of Burma.

Suu Kyi has a poor record on the Muslim minority in Burma as well, mostly by refusing to condemn violence and staying quiet and pretending their persecution isn't an issue - here (http://edition.cnn.com/2016/11/17/asia/myanmar-rohingya-aung-san-suu-kyi/)

There was also this (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/03/25/aung-san-suu-kyi-in-anti-muslim-spat-with-bbc-presenter/), which, if it was the Donald, would probably lead to mass protests and global Twitter trends.


Why does Obama get put on that level? I'm sure he's a lovely bloke, but Mandela actually did stuff.

There was quite a good article on the BBC, of all places, the other day on Obama's record. The argument was that if Romney had won in 2012, and simply continued Obama's drone strikes, there would have been mass outrage (probably from what I will term the Miliband-Cooper Gang).

In short, he was shielded from criticism by his 'aura'. Which, let's be blunt, was because he was both a) liberal and b) a minority.

[Pepe]

Cool as fuck more than anything.

[Lewis]

I think I would have rather gone for a milk with 'Dubya'.

[Lewis]

'Top up, George, lad?'

https://i.makeagif.com/media/8-13-2015/AIdU3K.gif

[Pepe]

I think I would have rather gone for a milk with 'Dubya'.

You would, but who would you think The Group would invite to join them first?

[Lewis]

'You know, when we launched Obamacare, the Republi...'
'Will you shut up? We can't hear Kiko.'

[Kikó]

*smug*

[phonics]

I'm not one to big up Obama on foreign policy terms but the Iranian Nuclear Deal and the reopening of the Cuban diplomatic situation are both monumental things. To say he did nothing is childishly reductive.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Yeah, but Mandela.

[GS]

I'm not one to big up Obama on foreign policy terms but the Iranian Nuclear Deal and the reopening of the Cuban diplomatic situation are both monumental things. To say he did nothing is childishly reductive.

Alongside disasters in Libya and Syria.

Not that it matters. He addressed parliament in 2011, before any of this was relevant to deciding whether he 'merited' it or not. Mandela can't be your bar, otherwise it's a small handful of people who're getting the HONOUR.

Ultimately, this is just a manufactured argument. He probably wouldn't have addressed parliament anyway, there was no request made, and it's just being used as an excuse by the usual crowd to appear relevant.

[GS]

For all the expressions of outrage from the Farron mob, this is interesting:

https://www.chathamhouse.org/expert/comment/what-do-europeans-think-about-muslim-immigration

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4Y7t_mW8AAW7eU.jpg

[Jimmy Floyd]

We're an extremely moderate country, especially now. Europe has all these nutjobs getting solid shares of the vote/seats and threatening power in some cases, while the best we can do is Farage bumbling around like a twat. There's a reason why we've never had any kind of extreme government, or not since about 1660.

Hooray for First Past the Post.

[Henry]

Obama's record is indeed poor in many respects, and one should not lose sight of this. Trump is dangerous on another level, but that doesn't make Obama bombing kids in Yemen any worse than Trump doing it.

[GS]

Indeed. Our constitutional settlement is great. It perplexes me that there are people frothing at the mouth now we're no longer throwing our lot in with the likes of the Hungarians.

[Lewis]

That Spanish support seems rather low, given 1) their history with them; and 2) their sports being rife with racism.

[Bartholomert]

We're an extremely moderate country, especially now. Europe has all these nutjobs getting solid shares of the vote/seats and threatening power in some cases, while the best we can do is Farage bumbling around like a twat. There's a reason why we've never had any kind of extreme government, or not since about 1660.

Hooray for First Past the Post.

If it wasn't for First Past the Post America would probably be split as a nation at this stage. There would be open White/Black Nationalists getting 10-15% of the vote with another 10-15% of the vote going to "all taxation is theft" libertarians. It would be bananas.

It's a better system.

[Bartholomert]

I'm not one to big up Obama on foreign policy terms but the Iranian Nuclear Deal and the reopening of the Cuban diplomatic situation are both monumental things. To say he did nothing is childishly reductive.

Iranian Nuclear Deal is a completely unenforceable joke that empowered the number 1 sponser of terrorism in the world. The "Cuban diplomatic situation" is a lol capitulation which has empowered a totalitarian state, where the US gained 0 concessions for 60~ years of policy.

Even his 'successes' are massive failures by any reasonable barometer.

[Lewis]

I'm not sure what 'concessions' you could even wring out of Cuba, seeing as the Soviet Union no longer exists, so normalising relations with them is just sensible.

[Pepe]

Didn't they get rid of the 'wet feet dry feet' policy? The likes of mert should be happy with that, no?

[Pepe]

And by 'they' I mean Obama of course.

[Boydy]

Iranian Nuclear Deal is a completely unenforceable joke that empowered the number 1 sponser of terrorism in the world.

Iran is?

[Lewis]

It's a pretty pointless definition. First, the likes of Hamas and Hezbollah are designated 'terrorist' organisations by most countries, but are so embedded in their respective political processes (as open standing armies, rather than just IRA-like backroom links) that calling them non-state actors is basically pedantry. Second, Iran-backed non-state (terrorist) organisations run on similar lines are currently doing all the heavy lifting for Uncle Sam against Islamic State in Iraq under cover of the same American air support that used to bomb their safehouses. Third, the Saudis and Qataris have been showering Syrian terrorists with money, so it can't even be true anymore, and why even make the 'state sponsor' distinction when those countries turn a blind eye to prominent citizens funding other people that actually pose the greatest threat to American interests?

The entire Iranian complex is deranged.

[Lewis]

830483672096768001

Between him being the most insecure man alive, and the Japanese all being degenerate gamblers, some serious shit might be getting sorted.

[Boydy]

830484907403128833

:D

l

[Henry]

Senior policy advisor Stephen Miller did a pretty good impersonation of an SS officer on various interviews on Saturday.

"Our opponents, the media, and the whole world will soon see … the powers of the president to protect our country are very substantial and will not be questioned."

"We will have unquestioned military strength beyond what anyone can imagine."

"It is a fact, and you will not deny it, that there are massive numbers of non-citizens in this country who are registered to vote."

And laughably "I'm not going to make a comment on that. I don't have any information on it. I do want to say that Sean Spicer as always is 100% correct."

Trump tweeted "Congratulations Stephen Miller on representing me … Great job!"

[Henry]

Oh, and the National Security Advisor just resigned after 3 weeks in the job and 7 hours after Trump declared his full support for him.

[John Arne]

Yeah, it was pretty North Korean State TV.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYzK6dnnZZE

[Lewis]

Trump is FINISHED.

[mikem]

Hasn't he stuck everything in a 'blind trust' to get around that? It'll be a fudge of monumental proportions, but I doubt it'll sink him. His reaction to the supreme court lolling his executive order(s) out of existence could though.

Pro Publica was tracking filing activity in the legal districts needed to complete the trust. It hadn't been filed on inauguration. Not sure if they have kept tracking.

The Emoluments clause is broad in scope: It includes any title or item of monetary value from a foreign government.
Shame we don't have a President who collects rent or hotel fees, or gets tax incentives on foreign construction, or has loans from state backed banks, has brand / copyright protections filed in multiple countries, or anything else on a fairly long list. There might be a violation or at least years of investigation targets if we had that sort of President.

I'm glad most of the left has finally realized that he is not getting impeached and real investigations are unlikely until the midterms. I think some individual R senators and congressional reps are struggling because there are no good optics for them with Trump. Two years of bad constituent meetings killed the ACA's image more than anything. If the D base stays full Tea Party (who exactly goes to a 200 person protest in Lexington, Des Moines, or Harrisburg on the day of the Super Bowl?) and hubris from safe R's demands that they walk into fights on Social Security and Medicare? Next week's recess constituent meetings should be fun.

[John Arne]

The Sean Spicer Show starts shortly...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=be4-srnD5Lk

[Henry]

Trump's in a bind about this Russia thing, I think. I'm not sure that there's much to it, but if the intelligence services have something on him or his team then he can neither tolerate the investigations that are ongoing nor can he shut them down since there are obviously people willing to leak damaging information.

[Henry]

Now we have a large number of tweets from Trump attacking the FBI and NSA for leaking information. LOL.

[mikem]

The real lol will be when the next head of the NSA has to work his schedule around his parole meetings. And why exactly do you need to meet with a parole officer again?

[Bartholomert]

Trump's in a bind about this Russia thing, I think. I'm not sure that there's much to it, but if the intelligence services have something on him or his team then he can neither tolerate the investigations that are ongoing nor can he shut them down since there are obviously people willing to leak damaging information.

An incoming member of the administration spoke to Russia officials during a period of escalating tensions to assure them vaguely that the new administration would take a softer stance on a number of issues. Okay, probably shouldn't have lied about it...but...what's the story here? Seriously? Trump got rid of Flynn (a Democrat) because Flynn was always a bad choice and they came to realize it. Bad politics, but it happens.

Oh and let's not forget:

http://www.breitbart.com/jerusalem/2017/02/15/flashback-reports-obamas-2008-campaign-reps-secretly-talked-hamas-iran/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social

[Bartholomert]

The real story is the intelligence community undermining our democracy through coordinated illegal leaks targeting specific official within an administration they disagree with (reportedly because he was going to embarrass them by revealing the secret agreements within the Iran deal). That's what a police state looks like, Democrats would be wise to condemn the entire affair.

[Byron]

An incoming member of the administration spoke to Russia officials during a period of escalating tensions to assure them vaguely that the new administration would take a softer stance on a number of issues. Okay, probably shouldn't have lied about it...but...what's the story here? Seriously? Trump got rid of Flynn (a Democrat) because Flynn was always a bad choice and they came to realize it. Bad politics, but it happens.

Oh and let's not forget:

http://www.breitbart.com/jerusalem/2017/02/15/flashback-reports-obamas-2008-campaign-reps-secretly-talked-hamas-iran/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social

I'd imagine that the story is that it's illegal for someone who at the time was a private citizen to conduct diplomacy.

[Bartholomert]

I'd imagine that the story is that it's illegal for someone who at the time was a private citizen to conduct diplomacy.

Except it happens all the time and the Logan Act doesn't apply here. It's a legitimate non story.

[Henry]

An incoming member of the administration spoke to Russia officials during a period of escalating tensions to assure them vaguely that the new administration would take a softer stance on a number of issues. Okay, probably shouldn't have lied about it...but...what's the story here? Seriously? Trump got rid of Flynn (a Democrat) because Flynn was always a bad choice and they came to realize it. Bad politics, but it happens.

Oh and let's not forget:

http://www.breitbart.com/jerusalem/2017/02/15/flashback-reports-obamas-2008-campaign-reps-secretly-talked-hamas-iran/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social

Trump got rid of him because it was all over the media. He already knew what he had done and didn't care.

[John Arne]

The real story is the intelligence community undermining our democracy through coordinated illegal leaks targeting specific official within an administration they disagree with (reportedly because he was going to embarrass them by revealing the secret agreements within the Iran deal). That's what a police state looks like, Democrats would be wise to condemn the entire affair.

What's stopping him from doing this now? I'd be surprised if there was anything damaging in it, given that there were 5 other countries involved in the deal, and the full text was released at the time.

[phonics]

The real story is the intelligence community undermining our democracy through coordinated illegal leaks targeting specific official within an administration they disagree with (reportedly because he was going to embarrass them by revealing the secret agreements within the Iran deal). That's what a police state looks like, Democrats would be wise to condemn the entire affair.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valerie_Plame

[Lewis]

With all this Russia paranoia in the air, Capt. Netanyahu floats in under the radar and plays him like a fucking fiddle (complete with photo in that weird gold flat he has).

[phonics]

With all this Russia paranoia in the air, Capt. Netanyahu floats in under the radar and plays him like a fucking fiddle (complete with photo in that weird gold flat he has).

If Netanyahu holds on for another 4-8 years I think we're genuinely looking at the end of the two state solution.

[Lewis]

Realistically, it ended the minute the IDF set foot in the Old City. People just have to pretend otherwise.

[GS]

Indeed. No Israeli Prime Minister is going to agree to give up East Jerusalem, and the IDF would almost certainly win any war that the surrounding states may care to start over it.

[Lewis]

On top of which it's just wholly impractical now. There are about four-hundred thousand settlers in the West Bank, and a similar amount in East Jerusalem, so your two state options would be 1) remove them all; 2) leave them and wash your hands of them; or 3) formally annex where they live before anything gets decided. The third option strikes me as the only goer, but where does that leave the other lot?

[GS]

There's precedent for dismantling settlements - they did it in 2005 when they unilaterally pulled out of Gaza. Maybe a balance between dismantling some, and then compensating the Palestinians with current Israeli land in pre-1967 Israel for the rest of it.

Not that it matters, because I can't imagine they're particularly amenable to it and they can enforce any policy decision they want. It's not as if a UN resolution criticising them matters a fuck given they've been breaching international law since '67.

[Lewis]

There were a few thousand of them in Gaza, and hauling them out was the biggest pain in the arse (politically-speaking) imaginable. Where do you even start planning to forcibly deport eight-hundred thousand Zionist headbangers in such a way as not to arouse sensitivities regarding certain historical population transfers?

[GS]

It was, but if it was tied into part of the final peace deal (rather than just wishy-washy 'goodwill' gesture) then you might have more political capital to draw on to enforce it.

That said, you're probably right. I assume you'd need to hold 'strong views' on the subject before you'd be volunteering to live there, so I can't imagine they'd go quietly if they saw their own IDF tanks rolling in to evict them and bulldoze their homes.

But as I said before, this is all abstract discussion. I can't envisage any scenario at all which is going to see the Israelis pull back, and I can't see how you get a two-state solution without the Palestinians effectively having to concede the point across the board. The surrounding Arab states probably wouldn't let them either, as a bit of sabre-rattling against the Israelis is the go-to if they want to deflect attention away from more mundane, everyday activities like high-level government corruption and unethical haircuts.

[Bartholomert]

Trump got rid of him because it was all over the media. He already knew what he had done and didn't care.

When has Trump caved on anything because of media pressure? Don't be naive.

[Bartholomert]

What's stopping him from doing this now? I'd be surprised if there was anything damaging in it, given that there were 5 other countries involved in the deal, and the full text was released at the time.

Maybe he hadn't gotten access to it yet. It's an open secret that there are plenty of secret and embarrassing concessions made by the Obama administration.

[Bartholomert]

It was, but if it was tied into part of the final peace deal (rather than just wishy-washy 'goodwill' gesture) then you might have more political capital to draw on to enforce it.

That said, you're probably right. I assume you'd need to hold 'strong views' on the subject before you'd be volunteering to live there, so I can't imagine they'd go quietly if they saw their own IDF tanks rolling in to evict them and bulldoze their homes.

But as I said before, this is all abstract discussion. I can't envisage any scenario at all which is going to see the Israelis pull back, and I can't see how you get a two-state solution without the Palestinians effectively having to concede the point across the board. The surrounding Arab states probably wouldn't let them either, as a bit of sabre-rattling against the Israelis is the go-to if they want to deflect attention away from more mundane, everyday activities like high-level government corruption and unethical haircuts.

The two state solution is a fantasy and the Palestinians won't accept it anyways. The Arabs should have been less shitty at war or cut their losses when they had the chance. Israeli will eventually displace the Arabs in those areas and remove them or absorb them into greater Israel.

[Byron]

Except it happens all the time and the Logan Act doesn't apply here. It's a legitimate non story.

Well according to what I can see, there have been four instances where people were accused of having breached the Logan Act in the is history with one indictment (one of those accused but not charged was Donald himself)

Seems like a fairly big deal in the greater context of 'what did Trump know about Russian involvement in the election prior to him winning?'

[phonics]

Always enjoy a social media mishap

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4zcca5WQAMMpDf.jpg:large

[John Arne]

Oh god, this Trump press conference is a train wreck. Still blaming "dishonest media". Ignore the fucking media, you clown.

[John Arne]

His goggle tan line really is fucking stupid.

[John Arne]

Jesus.... he pretty much just said "we are repealing Obamacare... it's filled our hospitals with type of people who shouldn't be there (poor??).. they shouldn't be there... they aren't republicans".

[John Arne]

Why is the President of the US still referring to the "Failing New York Times" as such? He sounds like a childish little kid.

[Ian]

I saw the article about a Republican judge talking about how he should be impeached. I loved the turn of phrase, when talking about some of Trump's antics, "dazzlingly illegal."

[Bartholomert]

Well according to what I can see, there have been four instances where people were accused of having breached the Logan Act in the is history with one indictment (one of those accused but not charged was Donald himself)

Seems like a fairly big deal in the greater context of 'what did Trump know about Russian involvement in the election prior to him winning?'

FBI has cleared Trump and Flynn of any legal wrong doing. Even NYT admits that.

This is literally a made up story.

[Bartholomert]

I saw the article about a Republican judge talking about how he should be impeached. I loved the turn of phrase, when talking about some of Trump's antics, "dazzlingly illegal."

Link?

[Bernanke]

"The whole Russian thing. That's a ruse. THAT'S A RUSE. By the way, it would be great if we could get along with Russia."

https://media.giphy.com/media/adMTze5Kv24aA/giphy.gif

[John Arne]

The guy from the Beeb laying down smackdown on him :D
"We can banter back and forth all day, Mr President"

[Ian]

Link?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-impeachment-republican-judge-mark-painter-cincinnati-court-of-appeals-a7583031.html?cmpid=facebook-post

*Former Republican judge.

[Lewis]

The fact that supposedly serious people still ascribe some genius media strategy to him is deranged. I saw that he only spoke to conservative journalists the other day, which is apparently how the Holocaust started. Lads, he is merely the most insecure man alive. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Bartholomert]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-impeachment-republican-judge-mark-painter-cincinnati-court-of-appeals-a7583031.html?cmpid=facebook-post

*Former Republican judge.

So a bitter senile irrelevant never Trumper. At least we have the honesty to have internal opposition among conservatives.

[Bartholomert]

The fact that supposedly serious people still ascribe some genius media strategy to him is deranged. I saw that he only spoke to conservative journalists the other day, which is apparently how the Holocaust started. Lads, he is merely the most insecure man alive. Nothing more, nothing less.

I mean he was considered a branding / marketing genius before he became president. Maybe the secret to success is to be super insecure and overcompensate nonstop for it?

[Shindig]

They have to ditch him. You cannot govern on this. It's been four weeks and he's already brick-walled and lashing out. America cannot take four years of legitimate stagnation.

[mikem]

The fact that supposedly serious people still ascribe some genius media strategy to him is deranged. I saw that he only spoke to conservative journalists the other day, which is apparently how the Holocaust started. Lads, he is merely the most insecure man alive. Nothing more, nothing less.

Here is a piece on Bannon you will enjoy:

https://lawfareblog.com/bannon-washington-report-incompetence-evil

[Lewis]

The three week delay can only be explained by the Brookings Institution being an idiotic hivemind.