U.S. Presidential Election 2016 (Sponsored by Betty Croker's Hamburger Helper)

[phonics]

The idea of the President actually finally doing something about Chicago is interesting. I'm not sure sending a bunch of National Guard in to crack heads is going to do anything but cause a civil war mind you.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I reckon if he does say 20 apparently mad things, at least 5 of them will end up being brilliant solutions via the law of unintended consequences.

[phonics]

Yeah but the ultimate question is always are the other 15 worth the trains running on time?

[Jimmy Floyd]

They can always be put right by President Baldwin in the next term.

[Spikey M]

Govenor James Corden will have something to say on the matter as well.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I actually legit saw something about Mark Zuckerberg running for President. They have fucking lost the plot.

[phonics]

It stems from him saying that he's planning on visiting every state and journalists doing their 1+1 = 3 stuff.

[phonics]

Seeing as Mert only understands politics via the means of memes these days, I thought this was good considering his tone yesterday.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C27i2VoUUAEjHCz.jpg:large

[Bernanke]

Donald is actually moving faster than I expected. Almost Machiavellian.


Therefore, when a prince decides to seize a state, he must determine how much injury to inflict. He needs to strike all at once and then refrain from further atrocities. In this way, his subjects will eventually forget the violence and cruelty. Gradually, resentment will fade, and the people will come to appreciate the resulting benefits of the prince’s rule. Most important, a prince should be consistent in the way he treats his subjects.

But I guess that would be based on him actually having a strategy here instead of just watching TV and reacting to whatever tickles him.

A lot of the stuff so far have been things that are perfectly fine in a democracy when you've been elected, but the gag-orders on certain branches + lifting the ban on CIA blacksites is some top-tier Erdogan/Berlusconi/Harper-fuckery.

[niko_cee]

Isn't The Prince just a rather sycophantic job application that has become somewhat overblown historically? Same probably goes for Sun Tzu, but I suppose that has added eastern mystique and some of it is quite interesting (not that Niccolo isn't).

[Bernanke]

My take-away from the one course I took on political history is that it is contextually relevant in the development of political philosophy in Europe at the time. He was one of the first to explore why certain states succeed and others don't, and doing so from a rational and methodical standpoint. The most profound insight for the time was the notion that popular morality isn't always what's best for the state and for its ruler(s). De-coupling the motivations of the state and the people running it was completely new.

Reading The Prince wasn't my favourite part of the course though, it has to be said... At least it was better than Plato.

[Lewis]

All of those books are over-blown, except On War, which is still under-blown.

[Jimmy Floyd]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38749884

I'm still undecided as to whether having a load of absolute retards take over control of the US is going to prove good or bad for our interests. Quite possibly good, if I'm being honest.

[Bernanke]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38749884

I'm still undecided as to whether having a load of absolute retards take over control of the US is going to prove good or bad for our interests. Quite possibly good, if I'm being honest.


Mr Malloch added that any attempt by the EU to block Britain beginning negotiations with the US would be "absurd" and like a husband "trying to stop his wife having an affair".

They're really obsessed with this whole cuckolding thing aren't they?

[bruhnaldo]

Ya It's pretty weird if I'm honest.

Almost as weird as banning certain agencies from releasing scientifically proven information to the public for their own consumption. What the fuck was that about?

[bruhnaldo]

Speaking the "Euro failing" I don't know if anyone has touched on this yet but the next big thing to watch for is the French election.

I suspect Trump + co. will do everything they can to get Le Pen elected, which they think will be the next step into eliminating the European Union in general.

I don't know how realistic any of that is cause I'm an uneducated asshole but just thought I'd mention anyways.

[Bernanke]

I only follow French politics on a surface-level, but the main narratives at this point are pretty much:

* Fillon being the conservative front-runner, but recently some scandal regarding his wife has surfaced which could be disastrous for him.
* The left can't decide who to rally behind. Valls for the Socialists, Mélenchon, or Macron. The latter has had a positive trend recently and reminds me a lot of Trudeau in Canada. One thing holding him back is that he was part of Valls cabinet, which wasn't the most... popular...
* Everyone keeps saying Le Pen doesn't have a chance since no candidate will get 50% in the first round, and all signs point to her getting destroyed in a second round regardless of whether it's against Fillon or one of the leftists. We all know how well polling has worked recently though...

I think a week or two is needed to see what the fallout is on Fillon, and then it's just a matter of waiting until after the first round to see what the actual alternatives will be.

[Pepe]

Valls got shafted in the Socialist primary.

[Bernanke]

Valls got shafted in the Socialist primary.

35 vs 31 isn't really "shafted" though, and the (little) I've read still think Valls will take it.

Edit: It's close:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Socialist_Party_presidential_primary,_2017# Second_round_2

[Pepe]

Third place declared for Hamon, although I am not sure how much of a difference that makes. They are both cunts, mind.

[Bernanke]

Macron actually polls really well in the second round:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_French_presidential_electi on,_2017#Opinion_polls_for_expected_second_round_o f_voting

Huh.

[Pepe]

Macron, Fillon, Valls, the state of that shit. :sick:

[Spikey M]

Speaking the "Euro failing" I don't know if anyone has touched on this yet but the next big thing to watch for is the French election.

I suspect Trump + co. will do everything they can to get Le Pen elected, which they think will be the next step into eliminating the European Union in general.

I don't know how realistic any of that is cause I'm an uneducated asshole but just thought I'd mention anyways.

Le Pen winning would be a shock, which in the current climate means you can bet your house on it.

[niko_cee]

It'll be Le Pen v conservative (Fillion seems most likely) and the socialists will have to suck it up just like they did when they returned M. Chirac and his many mistresses, their grocery bills and all the rest to the Elysee.

Maybe they'll get Sarko back.

:face:/:drool:

[Jimmy Floyd]

Fillon is in as the conservative candidate. Some of our remain whingers are talking up Melenchon (think he's like a Lib Dem) coming through the middle. Socialists will be 4th, maybe even 5th if the left wing nutbar beats them.

I don't think Marine will win, the French are contrary at the best of times and the run-off system favours a massive vote against her.

[Lewis]

Does it even matter who runs France?

[Pepe]

'Sarko' is already out. Melenchon is the only option.

[Lewis]

On the one hand, 'Sarko' was the biggest waste of time ever. On the other, he was only ever in it for its own sake (lol (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROaZp77_HwM#t=22s)), and he married Carla Bruni, so he probably considers himself a massive success.

[Pepe]

Until Mediapart puts him in prison. :drool:

[Boydy]

My money would be on Sarkozy in a Sarkozy - Osborne fight. I'd like to see that happen.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I meant Macron when I said Melenchon, who must be some other saddo.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmanuel_Macron

[Pepe]

Macron married Brigitte Trogneux, 24 years older than him and his former French teacher in high school

Top lad.

[Pepe]

Based on his experiences in South America, Mélenchon favors "The Citizens' Revolution" (révolution citoyenne), drawing additionally on ideas stemming from the French Revolution and the Paris Commune, and a new strategy that respects the democratic process while seeking to win elections in order to change the constitution. This "citizens' revolution" should lead to a reversal of the current division of wealth held by capital, represented by shareholders, and the working class (understood in the broad sense of anyone who actually works to earn money directly). Additional goals include a new constitution that will initiate a 6th French Republic in which the president will have less power and Parliament more, increase wages, a public bank created by nationalizing the private banks, democratization through the establishment of new rights for employees allowing them to develop cooperatives, the nationalization of large corporations, environmental planning, an exit from NATO, an end to the war in Afghanistan, and peace in the Middle East through the creation of a Palestinian state. Jean‑Luc Mélenchon also insists on the importance of "popular involvement" through public referendums on any essential subject.

:nod:

[Lewis]

'So you're going to fuck everything up and then eat the zoo?'
'I don't see the two as being mutually exclusive.'

[Pepe]

He's also against the EU.

[Lewis]

They all say that until they shit themselves and let it bum them.

[Pepe]

I thought THE LEFT was supposed to love it.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The hard left has always been against it. It's the coffee drinkers and bum doctors who like it.

[Lewis]

They make all the right noises about being against it, but, when cock comes to arse, any European socialist (including the modern British ones) worth a wank is always going to choose technocrats over The People.

[Pepe]

Not Bernie.

[Lewis]

I liked him getting all the credit for that Asian trade agreement getting binned. Oh, he signed the order, did he? I thought it was PRESIDENT DONALD J. TRUMP.

[Pepe]

Does Mr. President still think China was part of the TPP?

[Lewis]

You just worry about The Wall, lad.

[Pepe]

Already saving for it. Nice of The Donald to give us a cash advance on it.

[GS]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38749884

I'm still undecided as to whether having a load of absolute retards take over control of the US is going to prove good or bad for our interests. Quite possibly good, if I'm being honest.

Good. The Donald is pro-British, and seems inclined to proactively help Brexit. The EU, given the Donald seems to hate them, can't really afford to alienate us given our contribution to security, the independent nuclear deterrent, our permanent seat on the UN Security Council (as if you could trust the French), and we might be the only European country in NATO with any sort of solid relationship with the Americans.

Assuming he doesn't start World War III, it's pretty excellent timing for POST BREXIT BRITAIN.

[Shindig]

President Donald Trump has promised a "major investigation into voter fraud", after making claims about millions of illegal ballots.

I mean... I'd rather you spent that money on something else.

[phonics]

Richard Spencer turned up to yet another protest and got punched in the face yet again :D

If his existence for the next four years is just getting punched in the face, I'll take nuclear war.

edit: This ABC transcript is nuts


PRESIDENT TRUMP: It can't be a great city. Excuse me. It can't be a great city if people are shot walking down the street for a loaf of bread. Can't be a great city.

He really does think it's the 1930s.

[Mazuuurk]

Does it even matter who runs France?

So long as it's someone who maintains the self-entitlement in Europe enough to think that the EU is build around and for them - it does, in the sense that it'll maintain the EU. It'll also maintain what's wrong with the EU - basically French bureaucracy - and increase discontent with it, across it.

So yeah I guess it doesn't matter.

[Mazuuurk]

Can someone explain the huge deal that seems to be crime in Chicago?

From all I gather they are not even in the top 5 most violent cities in the US, if even top 10 (seems a bit hard to find consistent stats though).

[GS]

So long as it's someone who maintains the self-entitlement in Europe enough to think that the EU is build around and for them - it does, in the sense that it'll maintain the EU. It'll also maintain what's wrong with the EU - basically French bureaucracy - and increase discontent with it, across it.

So yeah I guess it doesn't matter.

What's wrong with the EU is that its structure is fundamentally flawed and it's run by entrenched ideologues who refuse to acknowledge this.

A Fillon win would do well. He has Thatcheresque policies that the French economy probably needs, he's ambivalent towards the EU, and he's sympathetic to 'Holy Russia'. It would bode well enough for us.

Even when we leave, the EU requires some serious rebalancing away from Germany. Fillon might actually be willing to argue the point.

It's rather underappreciated how utterly dreadful Hollande has been. It should basically disqualify the socialists from office henceforward.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The reason it's balanced towards Germany is that they're the only continental country which isn't fucking useless.

[GS]

The reason it's balanced towards Germany is that they're the only continental country which isn't fucking useless.

I don't disagree, but German domination of Europe is hardly desirable for anybody except the Germans.

Imagine if Martin Schulz somehow became Chancellor. Fucking hell.

[Spikey M]

Can someone explain the huge deal that seems to be crime in Chicago?

From all I gather they are not even in the top 5 most violent cities in the US, if even top 10 (seems a bit hard to find consistent stats though).


In short - 'The South Side' is rife with gangs, drugs, prostitution and murder. That's the story, anyway.

[Mazuuurk]

In short - 'The South Side' is rife with gangs, drugs, prostitution and murder. That's the story, anyway.

I'm sure it is. But there's a whole bunch of other US cities who seem much worse, like St Louis, New Orleans, Detroit, Oakland (?) and probably Baltimore.

I guess Chicago is a bit of an international city.

[Mazuuurk]

What's wrong with the EU is that its structure is fundamentally flawed and it's run by entrenched ideologues who refuse to acknowledge this.

A Fillon win would do well. He has Thatcheresque policies that the French economy probably needs, he's ambivalent towards the EU, and he's sympathetic to 'Holy Russia'. It would bode well enough for us.

Even when we leave, the EU requires some serious rebalancing away from Germany. Fillon might actually be willing to argue the point.

It's rather underappreciated how utterly dreadful Hollande has been. It should basically disqualify the socialists from office henceforward.

It's sad, because you're probably right. But I suspect you're against the EU in general, whereas I'm strongly Pro the EU. I want it to work but I do acknowledge it has a bunch of problems that's lead to so much dissent about it. For it to work the states in it probably need to work more towards giving up some (more) of their national identities and embracing the federal European state.

[Spikey M]

If the EU has to exist, then I'd rather the UK be part of it purely because it's alot of trade we'll be denied purely out of spite. We also had a pretty good get out of jail free card in keeping our own currency for when the Euro completely crashes.

That said, it's probably better to be 'out' for when the whole thing burns down. They still haven't sorted out the likes of Greece and Portugal being able to run their economy in to the ground whilst taking the Euro with them. I still haven't had it explained to me how a centralised shared currency and regionalised government spending / borrowing is meant to work.

[Jimmy Floyd]

That's because it won't work, and because the EU is jampacked with Sepp Blatter types who are convinced they're saving the world.

[GS]

It's sad, because you're probably right. But I suspect you're against the EU in general, whereas I'm strongly Pro the EU. I want it to work but I do acknowledge it has a bunch of problems that's lead to so much dissent about it. For it to work the states in it probably need to work more towards giving up some (more) of their national identities and embracing the federal European state.

I'm against the EU because it's an anti democratic supranational mess that rides roughshod over existing democratic institutions and member states' rights.

The remaining eurozone states need to pool further sovereignty on financial matters to make the currency feasible in the long term. The people don't want that, but the politicians will just ram it through anyway if they decide they want it. The EU has brought the "dissent" on itself by being absolutely useless, and generally incapable of having a finger on the political pulse.

The EU constitution / Lisbon debacle was the high point. We had Gordon Brown pretending they didn't need to honour the 2005 manifesto pledge to hold a referendum because he knew they'd lose.

[Lewis]

That's because it won't work, and because the EU is jampacked with Sepp Blatter types who are convinced they're saving the world.

Hopefully Brexit Britain is such a place that the term 'waxworks' is allowed to circulate again.

[phonics]

Can we get the EU moaning out of the US Politics thread please. Ta.

[Mazuuurk]

I'm against the EU because it's an anti democratic supranational mess that rides roughshod over existing democratic institutions and member states' rights.

The remaining eurozone states need to pool further sovereignty on financial matters to make the currency feasible in the long term. The people don't want that, but the politicians will just ram it through anyway if they decide they want it. The EU has brought the "dissent" on itself by being absolutely useless, and generally incapable of having a finger on the political pulse.

The EU constitution / Lisbon debacle was the high point. We had Gordon Brown pretending they didn't need to honour the 2005 manifesto pledge to hold a referendum because he knew they'd lose.

Still agree with you on that. Though I think it's better to try to fix the mess than to leave it behind.
But perhaps I'm being naive about it.


PS.
0/ Sorry phonics.

[Spikey M]

Can we get the EU moaning out of the US Politics thread please. Ta.

Can you move it to a new thread / an existing one?

[Pepe]

It's rather underappreciated how utterly dreadful Hollande has been. It should basically disqualify the socialists from office henceforward.

First time you've been right about something in ages.

[Pepe]

As for Fillon, he can fuck off, parading around with his catholic cross and then complaining about 'burkinis.'

[Mazuuurk]

Amen to that.

[bruhnaldo]

Can we get the EU moaning out of the US Politics thread please. Ta.

That's my bad, I apologize for bringing it up, I just thought everything being connected and such.

[phonics]

Can you move it to a new thread / an existing one?
Start one and I'll move it.

[bruhnaldo]

Start one and I'll move it.

http://www.thethirdhalf.co.uk/showthread.php?1459-The-EU-Politics-Thread-(Sponsored-by-Marine-Le-Pen-s-Hot-Daughter)

:)

[Bartholomert]

Can someone explain the huge deal that seems to be crime in Chicago?

From all I gather they are not even in the top 5 most violent cities in the US, if even top 10 (seems a bit hard to find consistent stats though).

That's because Chicago is a big city with large parts of it which are fairly safe. The South Side is pretty much a war zone.

[mikem]

At least Mert has not made the entirety of Chicago a war zone but that is not quite right. I am just quibbling because he is right that it is small pockets within cities. It is not the mythic South Side. The concentration of the real gang war is in a few wards in Oak Park, which is on the West Side. Here is a map of where the murders happened:

http://crime.chicagotribune.com/chicago/homicides

But the reason the poster city of urban blight went from New York in the 70's, D.C. in the 80's, Detroit in the 90's to Chicago now is always political narrative. Where is Obama's adopted home? I doubt there are even as many murders in Chicago as there were in the 90's.

[randomlegend]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/josh-rogin/wp/2017/01/26/the-state-departments-entire-senior-management-team-just-resigned/?utm_term=.8bf6e00ecd82

:lol: America

[Bartholomert]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/josh-rogin/wp/2017/01/26/the-state-departments-entire-senior-management-team-just-resigned/?utm_term=.8bf6e00ecd82

:lol: America

Yeah they got fired. Kennedy actively campaigned with the FBI to get the classified markings downgraded from some of Hillary's emails, he's a complete establishment hack.

This is what draining the swamp looks like.

[Bernanke]

So, now he's going to impose a 20% tariff on imports from Mexico to make them pay for the wall.

https://media.giphy.com/media/2fs2I4ujlBf20/giphy.gif

I'm not kidding here: I wonder if he genuinely believes a 20% tax on imports would be paid by Mexico.

[randomlegend]

This is what draining the swamp looks like.

You're such a massive retard.

[GS]

So, now he's going to impose a 20% tariff on imports from Mexico to make them pay for the wall.

https://media.giphy.com/media/2fs2I4ujlBf20/giphy.gif

I'm not kidding here: I wonder if he genuinely believes a 20% tax on imports would be paid by Mexico.

Assuming he bins off NAFTA, he'll be bound by the rules of the WTO which they would presumably fall back on in the absence of any bilateral / multilateral treaty.

That said, the Mexicans aren't really in a position to argue if the Americans assert themselves.

[Lewis]

They could have done a lot worse than sacking everybody at the State Department, so consider that a TRUMP WIN.

[Bartholomert]

So, now he's going to impose a 20% tariff on imports from Mexico to make them pay for the wall.

https://media.giphy.com/media/2fs2I4ujlBf20/giphy.gif

I'm not kidding here: I wonder if he genuinely believes a 20% tax on imports would be paid by Mexico.

It's called negotiating. 20% tax on imports will absolutely wreck the Mexican economy, they will soon bend the knee and pay for the wall.

[Shindig]

Relax. They'll counter with a giant ladder fund from Canada.

[Pepe]

I'm not kidding here: I wonder if he genuinely believes a 20% tax on imports would be paid by Mexico.

Only if the US also pulls out of the WTO. Otherwise, Mexico will have to pay a MASSIVE tariff of about 2%.

[Bernanke]

Given his stance on the UN and also "creating betterer deals for the US everywhere", can you really rule out him deciding that the WTO isn't in the US best interest?

Also, I guess you're right, but I assume Mexican officials are aware of that which would make it a pointless fucking "negotiation tactic".

[Pepe]

No, I wouldn't be surprised if he wanted to also pull out of the WTO, but I would hope at least some Republicans have enough integrity to vote against such shite.

Obviously any threat in the world wouldn't be enough to convince Mexico to pay for the wall, but Pena Nieto is a complete weasel, so fuck knows what he might do.

[Bernanke]

Mr. Spicer said the tax initially would apply only to Mexico, but that the president supports imposing a 20 percent tax on all imports.

So basically Smoot-Hawley pt.2, and a breakdown of global trade.

[Pepe]

Would be pretty lol if that actually happened.

[ItalAussie]

He'd be super popular until white middle class America discovered that their grocery bill went up by 20%. Thanks Obama.

[Bartholomert]

He'd be super popular until white middle class America discovered that their grocery bill went up by 20%. Thanks Obama.

But who was substitution away from more expensive goods to alternative goods? It would fuck Mexico, and have a negligible effect on the average American (until Mexico caved anyways).

[ItalAussie]

America truly is the gift that keeps on giving.

https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2017-01/26/16/asset/buzzfeed-prod-fastlane-01/sub-buzz-25949-1485467834-3.png?no-auto

[Bartholomert]

America truly is the gift that keeps on giving.

https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2017-01/26/16/asset/buzzfeed-prod-fastlane-01/sub-buzz-25949-1485467834-3.png?no-auto

You missed the part where 70+% of Democrats were against the use of a private server.

Also there's nothing inherently wrong with using a private server, the issue was using a private server to transmit classified information and then deleting tens of thousands of emails when asked to turn them over by Federal prosecutors pursuant to a criminal investigation.

[Henry]

Conservepedia are fully behind Trump. I'll never get tired of reading that site!

[Jimmy Floyd]

I've now realised why May is so keen to cosy up to Trump - because she looks like a fucking political heavyweight next to him.

[mikem]

There is no 20% tariff. It is either a misunderstanding of Mike Lee's (R-U) plan to cut corporate taxes to 0% and make it revenue neutral by adding tariffs of up to 20% on imports by those corporations from countries with a US trade surplus. In which case it can't pay for the wall. Or it is an attempt to grift off that plan to make it look like Mexico is paying for the wall like a cheap Trump suit. Or it is classic Trump throwing shit at a wall like a monkey hoping it either sticks or we all freak out about the funny monkey. Either way, anything coming out of the White House is pure nonsense.

Turns out governance by con and personality disorder is not nearly as much fun as you'd think.

[John]

Vice President Mike Pence spoke at the 'March for Life' today. As big a menace as Donald Trump is, let's hope he sees out the full term because I reckon Mike Pence would be even more dangerous.

[Baz]

I'm starting to like The Donald. :uhoh:

The more I see and/or hear, the more he wins me over.

[Henry]

In another universe, alt-mert is explaining to us how a 20% tariff on imports is transferred to consumers.

Not in this one, I see.

[Bartholomert]

In another universe, alt-mert is explaining to us how a 20% tariff on imports is transferred to consumers.

Not in this one, I see.

I get how it works. This is about negotiation and leverage, not about maximizing economic efficiency.

[Byron]

So if you can concede that a 20% tariff is not the right way to go (which you appear to do above), what happens should Mexico say no?

[Pepe]

Just like the wall was just hypothetical and not meant to be a real wall. Right mert?

[Lewis]

This visa thing not including Pakistan and Saudi Arabia is pretty lol.

[Shindig]

It's not like there's legit form for muslim-lead terrorist attacks in the US. Just don't let them become pilots.

[Bartholomert]

This visa thing not including Pakistan and Saudi Arabia is pretty lol.

I think it's because the Saudia and Pakistani government has much better documentation / resources to allow for vetting of applicants. We also need Pakistani doctors.

[Bartholomert]

Just like the wall was just hypothetical and not meant to be a real wall. Right mert?

Nah it was always real, I just pretended it wasn't to appease liberals during the election.

[Lewis]

The Pakistani government doesn't have much of a handle on anything. It's an idiotic policy.

AND YET, the people crying over it is seriously lol. No need to talk about Owen 'Venezuela' Jones claiming that Theresa May now has to 'own' everything America does, or Justin Trudeau embarrassing the species yet again; Pepe, how come you never told us what a tolerant, welcoming, tolerant, free-for-all of tolerance America was for outsiders until yesterday?

[Jimmy Floyd]

I'm not a May fan but she's done very well on this. Not pissed him off, but also not joined his crusade. It's called diplomacy and you have to do that, and not virtue signalling, when you're running an actual country.

What would Metternich have done? Something similar, probably.

[Lewis]

825410025803878401

Everyone is throwing his Cuba/IRA-loving up at him; but lmao, losers, he was never neutral there, was he? And people actually call him a shit politician. :happycry:

[Pepe]

Pepe, how come you never told us what a tolerant, welcoming, tolerant, free-for-all of tolerance America was for outsiders until yesterday?

They weren't. I have been 'detained' three times when entering the country. Still, sending people with green cards back is completely fucked up.

[randomlegend]

http://i.imgur.com/4mApsfU.jpg

[GS]

The BBC headline on this is interesting. Not "May refuses to condemn Trump on refugees" or "May stays neutral on Trump refugee policy", but rather "May fails to condemn Trump on refugees" suggesting it's the wrong thing to do. It would almost make you agree with the SNP on BIAS.

I think she's handled this well. What business is it of ours if the Americans implement tougher controls?

[GS]

http://i.imgur.com/4mApsfU.jpg

And then a candidate advocating those policies was elected for President. If it's unconstitutional, it'll be struck down in the courts.

It's the same as Theresa May campaigning against a third runway at Heathrow whilst an opposition MP, but then approving it as Prime Minister. Different job, different circumstances, different priorities. It's something Wor Jez hasn't quite grasped, except when he conceded the point on wearing a red poppy.

[randomlegend]

You know who Mike Pence is, right?

[GS]

Yes, and he was on the ticket where Trump advocated these policies and, you know, won. Presumably he disagreed with him in private, but you're having a laugh if you expect the VP to publicly disagree with the President on a key campaign pledge within eight days of taking office.

[randomlegend]

You don't see the hypocrisy in making that tweet and then supporting that exact policy?

Okay...

[GS]

I will repeat: Presumably he disagreed with him in private, but you're having a laugh if you expect the VP to publicly disagree with the President on a key campaign pledge within eight days of taking office.

What are you expecting, exactly?

[Henry]

People probably EXPECT hypocrisy, but that's no reason not to point it out.

[GS]

I understand his position, rather than thinking he's inherently evil for not speaking out. He's not in a position to, and if we held everybody to past statements then you'd be denouncing your mate Jezza as a terrorist sympathiser rather than glossing over it and celebrating his message's success by tweet count.

The real hypocrisy here will be the Democrats who claim that Trump is abusing the constitution by issuing executive orders that over-reach his authority. It's pretty much what Obama did to circumvent Congress when he couldn't do what he wanted, but that was 'brushed over' by the Democrats because they agreed with what he was trying to do. If this proves anything, it's that the American system of directly electing the head of government and attempting to keep him in check via the legislative branches is a bit of fool's errand. He'd never have survived in Westminster because he'd never have lasted long enough in the Commons, never mind won the leadership, never mind been in a position to command the confidence of the house.

[Henry]

:rolleyes:

[GS]

Apologies, it must be unfortunate when your own hypocrisy is cited and undermines your moral outrage.

[randomlegend]

Apparently students with (previously, I suppose) valid visas who went home to the BANNED countries over the winter holidays are being denied re-entry to the country.

Lol. What a country.

EDIT: There's also an Iranian footballer in the second tier of 'soccer' who can't play his teams away matches in Canada because he wouldn't be allowed back into the US :D

[Yevrah]

How in the name of fuck does this order apply to people already living and working in the country?

Was the wording not clear?

[randomlegend]

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-immigration-greencard-idUSKBN15C0KX

It's just amazing.

[Lewis]

Calm down, idiots. It's all in hand (https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/825473081317683203).

[Jimmy Floyd]

They should all keep retweeting each other, I reckon. That'll solve everything.

Also, THIS is why we should not have either a written constitution or an elected head of state.

[Pepe]

Written Consitutions are ok as long as they are not five pages long and you update them once in a while.

[Pepe]

Lollest part is that these cunts don't even have a terrorism problem. Paranoid bitches.

[Lewis]

Maybe you should give them one. Then they will ban foreign engineers, which will make holidays cheaper for Magic.

[Shindig]

Relax. He's spending more on defense for those wars he's not going to fight overseas.

[Henry]

How in the name of fuck does this order apply to people already living and working in the country?

Was the wording not clear?

It was all too clear, and intended to deport many such people.

Fortunately Trump has just learned that he isn't above the law. I wonder what will happen if/when he starts criticising the judiciary on Twitter.

[Spikey M]

Well, he's been as bad as his word so far. I don't want to jump to Hitler comparisons but...

[Yevrah]

Well, he's been as bad as his word so far. I don't want to jump to Hitler comparisons but...

The Hitler comparisons are and always will be (almost up until the point he starts exterminating people) fucking stupid.

[Yevrah]

It was all too clear, and intended to deport many such people.

Fortunately Trump has just learned that he isn't above the law. I wonder what will happen if/when he starts criticising the judiciary on Twitter.

It all plays into my theory that he's just going to get bored. Or others that he'll be shot. Bored or shot.

[ItalAussie]

It could all be quite clever, on one hand.


“In seizing a state, the usurper ought to examine closely into all those injuries which it is necessary for him to inflict, and to do them all at one stroke, so as not to have to repeat them daily. Thus by not unsettling men he will be able to reassure them, and win them to himself through subsequent benefits.”

I'll be very interested in seeing how they deal with abortion. Republicans know that it's a ticket to 40% of the vote in every single election, so they have no incentive whatsoever to change to status quo. Trump himself clearly does not care about it even a little bit. But on the other hand, there's not much to stop them from doing things at this point, so if they don't do quite a lot, it'll be held against them.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I suspect there are a few more injuries he can inflict. Still, if he carries on like this he'll just get impeached, so twitter should be partying really.

[ItalAussie]

Nah it was always real, I just pretended it wasn't to appease liberals during the election.

I hope you at least had the decency to blush when you wrote that. :D

[Magic]

If he does get impeached who takes over? The VP?

[Shindig]

Yep. Ford took over after Watergate.

[phonics]

I suspect there are a few more injuries he can inflict. Still, if he carries on like this he'll just get impeached, so twitter should be partying really.

I think you heavily over-estimate the amount of spine that your average congressman/senator holds.

[Magic]

Isn't Pence a lunatic as well?

[phonics]

Massively. And he's half competent with his evilness as well which would be worrying.

[Disco]

Is Pence the 'funerals for aborted feotuses' guy? They should have made some Rock & Hard Place bumper stickers for the campaign.

[phonics]

I believe that was Texas. He does believe in electro shock therapy for gay people though.

edit: Oh wait


That wasn’t the case for a similar law in Indiana (http://www.vox.com/2016/7/14/12190380/mike-pence-trump-vice-president-abortion-funerals-fetuses) signed by Vice President-elect Mike Pence earlier this year. That law, which was later blocked by a judge, was so poorly written that it could have technically required women to cremate or bury their menstrual blood. (The law, which also included a ban on abortions based on the fetus’s race, sex, or “disability,” was blocked (http://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2016/06/30/judge-grants-preliminary-injunction-indiana-abortion-law/86556662/) because it unconstitutionally restricted a woman’s choices in seeking abortion.)

[Spikey M]

fu kin ell :|

[Disco]

I know we all have differing opinions on things but stuff like this just defies logic, how on earth does someone reach a position like that?

[ItalAussie]

President Pence. God. He'd probably try and ban the gays on day one.

[Jimmy Floyd]

India fully banned homosexuality a couple of years ago as the law was a bit loose before. There are plenty of countries tightening up on that stuff (no pun intended, though it might do them some good).

[Boydy]

825358392575266816

What the fuck.

[SvN]

That's amazing

[John Arne]

To be fair, couldn't any old organisation set that up? I'd be surprised (actually, probably not) if it had anything to do with Trump's team.

[Lewis]

http://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=171928

You can set your watch by these things.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It's the only reason I know where Oxford and Cambridge are on the map.

[GS]

#MuslimBan is a somewhat disingenuous way of looking at it.

The now-ubiquitious Ed Miliband really has a new lease of life this week as well.

[Shindig]

Sir Mo Farah can't see his kids.

[GS]

Sir Mo Farah can't see his kids.

There exist provisions in the order for the general ban to be over-ridden:


(g) Notwithstanding a suspension pursuant to subsection (c) of this section or pursuant to a Presidential proclamation described in subsection (e) of this section, the Secretaries of State and Homeland Security may, on a case-by-case basis, and when in the national interest, issue visas or other immigration benefits to nationals of countries for which visas and benefits are otherwise blocked.

I'm not saying it's not a shocker of a policy, by the way. It is, if for no other reason than it won't work.

[Bartholomert]

Necessary read for those of you taken in by the fake news propagated by the lying media:

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/444370/donald-trump-refugee-executive-order-no-muslim-ban-separating-fact-hysteria?utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_content=588d3ffb04d301222d018387&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook

[Jimmy Floyd]

Mert you're as bad as the liberals. Posting shitty blogs whilst your man permanently ends American soft power within his first week.

[GS]

The constitutionality isn't an issue. If it's unconstitutional, then it'll be struck down by the Supreme Court. He also repeatedly advocated it on the campaign trail, so it's not as if anybody can claim he has no 'mandate' (the words 'popular vote' aren't relevant) for it.

If it's around the use of executive orders, Trump supporters have the valid rejoinder that they were strongly against Obama's use of the same. There's a real issue here with precedent, in that the Democrats used the powers (through Obama) to circumvent Congress and they're therefore on sticky ground complaining when the other side go and do the same thing.

My issue is not with its constitutionality (which I suspect, based on what I've read, is probably sound), the supposed lack of mandate, or the use of executive orders (the Democrats can't have it both ways). It's that it's a daft policy which isn't going to work. If they were driving at something coherent, they'd have Saudi, Egypt, and Pakistan on there without question. You would probably throw in Algeria, where it's grim on the border with Libya, and Tunisia which has the highest number of IS fighters after Saudi. The somewhat arbitrary selection of states raises eyebrows, rather than the policy itself in the context of his campaign promises.

It may also help some of these people realise that not taking Trump seriously isn't a great idea. You suspect the American system of governance is about to be stress-tested beyond anything originally envisaged.

[Lewis]

If it's around the use of executive orders, Trump supporters have the valid rejoinder that they were strongly against Obama's use of the same. There's a real issue here with precedent, in that the Democrats used the powers (through Obama) to circumvent Congress and they're therefore on sticky ground complaining when the other side go and do the same thing.

This will probably end up being the long-term lolling point, as Daniel Hannan was gloating about last night.

[Bartholomert]

Mert you're as bad as the liberals. Posting shitty blogs whilst your man permanently ends American soft power within his first week.

National Review is one of the most historically renowned conservative periodicals in America, and the writer is a NeverTrump constitutional conservative :nuts:

[Bartholomert]

The constitutionality isn't an issue. If it's unconstitutional, then it'll be struck down by the Supreme Court. He also repeatedly advocated it on the campaign trail, so it's not as if anybody can claim he has no 'mandate' (the words 'popular vote' aren't relevant) for it.

If it's around the use of executive orders, Trump supporters have the valid rejoinder that they were strongly against Obama's use of the same. There's a real issue here with precedent, in that the Democrats used the powers (through Obama) to circumvent Congress and they're therefore on sticky ground complaining when the other side go and do the same thing.

My issue is not with its constitutionality (which I suspect, based on what I've read, is probably sound), the supposed lack of mandate, or the use of executive orders (the Democrats can't have it both ways). It's that it's a daft policy which isn't going to work. If they were driving at something coherent, they'd have Saudi, Egypt, and Pakistan on there without question. You would probably throw in Algeria, where it's grim on the border with Libya, and Tunisia which has the highest number of IS fighters after Saudi. The somewhat arbitrary selection of states raises eyebrows, rather than the policy itself in the context of his campaign promises.

It may also help some of these people realise that not taking Trump seriously isn't a great idea. You suspect the American system of governance is about to be stress-tested beyond anything originally envisaged.

The States aren't arbitrary. They were specifically outlined by a Department of Homeland Defense memorandum as countries to target due to insufficiency of vetting process in 2015 under Obama.

More importantly, OBAMA TOOK EXACTLY THE SAME ACTION IN 2011. Where was the outrage? TRUMP IS LOWERING REFUGEE LEVELS TO ABOUT WHERE IT WAS DURING THE BUSH ADMINSITRATION. Where was the outrage under Bush that America wasn't doing its fair share? EUROPE HAS BEEN COMPLETELY FUCKED BY TERRORIST ATTACKS / RISE IN SEXUAL CRIMES DUE TO IMMIGRATION FROM THESE COUNTRIES. Why don't we care about facts anymore and implementing policies which benefit the American people?

[GS]

The States aren't arbitrary. They were specifically outlined by a Department of Homeland Defense memorandum as countries to target due to insufficiency of vetting process in 2015 under Obama.

That may be, but the decision was still taken somewhere along the line to exclude other countries which, on the face of it, would warrant being included. I assume the criteria was "how closely allied are we?" and they went from there.

[Lewis]

National Review was having an Economist-like MELTDOWN over Christmas, so they're probably just putting themselves back together not knowing where they are.

[Bartholomert]

That may be, but the decision was still taken somewhere along the line to exclude other countries which, on the face of it, would warrant being included. I assume the criteria was "how closely allied are we?" and they went from there.

This is international politics after all. It's a good first step.

Also are we really pretending that people from these countries will be net contributors to Western society? Why can't we be honest about these things, these people will not be a plus for American society, why should we take them in? How come other countries can have self-interested immigration policies, but we can't?

[Lewis]

The Foreign Office (which is to say Boris 'Boris' Johnson) has confirmed that British nationals are fine wherever they travel from, but that dual-citizens might have to answer some questions if they travel directly from the seven crap countries in question (their example being a UK-Libyan national arriving from Libya). That sounds sorted, right? Unless the government is expected to moralise on all border arrangements, such as those of anti-Israeli nations.

[Yevrah]

The order is obviously madness, but Farah's Facebook post came across as a touch disingenuous. He's a British citizen, no? And as such, could never have truly thought he wouldn't be allowed in.

It's like the arguments against torture, they're already compelling enough without having to make stuff up.

[Spikey M]

This is international politics after all. It's a good first step.

Also are we really pretending that people from these countries will be net contributors to Western society? Why can't we be honest about these things, these people will not be a plus for American society, why should we take them in? How come other countries can have self-interested immigration policies, but we can't?

You already do.

[Spikey M]

The order is obviously madness, but Farah's Facebook post came across as a touch disingenuous. He's a British citizen, no? And as such, could never have truly thought he wouldn't be allowed in.

It's like the arguments against torture, they're already compelling enough without having to make stuff up.

He has a Joint UK and Somali Passport. That's probably enough to get Trumps prostate twitching.

[Lewis]

The argument of the day is 'WE LEFT EUROPE FOR THIS?!', as if Europe doesn't let queue-jumpers drown.

[Yevrah]

Political discourse has basically reached peak shit on both sides now.

[Shindig]

Has it not always been shit and social media just boils it all to the surface to be visible?

[Yevrah]

It's very possible that it's just social media that's amplified the awfulness of, well, everything really.

It's given every moron a voice when they really didn't need one.

[Shindig]

It's taken away the filter, yes.

[Offshore Toon]

On 1st January this year, Her Majesty The Queen made me a Knight of the Realm. On 27th January, President Donald Trump seems to have made me an alien.
This sentence from Little Mo is great. What a bellend.

[Magic]

Since Brexit and Trump twitter is absolutey fucking unbearable. Every cunt has an opinion. Food accounts, comedy ones, celebrity ones, football ones. Fuck off.

[Yevrah]

Mine, for example, is littered with comments about how immigration doesn't put Britain in danger, siding with bigots and racists does. Which is lovely and all, but half of it is not actually true. Then on the other side of the coin you've got the right moaning every 5 minutes about democracy being violated, without ever having given a shit about it before and probably not even understanding how it actually works.

Like The Merse and Ultimate Team, I should probably knock it all on the head and my life would be infinitely better once I'd weaned myself off it.

[Lewis]

Between all of the tedious Holocaust comparisons and 'HISTORY WILL JUDGE US' calls to arms (crap signs and tweets), you see the ultimate realisation of this in sad acts seeking to make it all much more dramatic in order for their otherwise pointless 'role' in it all to seem far more important and life-affirming than it actually is. You're not the French Resistance, and it's not a million miles away from the egomania that drives Islamic State types.

[Offshore Toon]

Everything has become all about NOW. Nothing is more important that what's happening RIGHT NOW. So people are constantly worked up all the time because we need to do something NOOOOOOOOW.

The time to do something was a long time ago. Everybody thinks they're a genius that can fix the problem they never saw coming. Some Irish girl last night was saying Trump would 100% get assassinated and it'd be for the best. There were a few of them, so I didn't bother bringing up the IRA, but I bet her friends call her 'nice'.

[Shindig]

It's almost as if twitter's a popularity contest and they're all trying to outdo each other. Instead of just seeing how Auntie Rita's doing after her fall.

[Pepe]

You could just not go into Twitter.

[Magic]

You could just not go into Twitter.

It's good to see stuff though. Just the retweeting business is annoying.

[Lewis]

Fortunately, TTH stands against the immediacy of modern life.

[Shindig]

Twitter tends to come to me, to be fair.

[Spoonsky]

I thought it would be bad, I didn't think it would be this bad this quickly.

[GS]

Some of the Moral Outrage Crowd must be aghast at Boris' clarification, as it suggests that they may have, once again, jumped the gun and misunderstood what's actually happening.

It should also be noted that Obama stopped Iraqi refugees for six months in 2011: here (http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/al-qaeda-kentucky-us-dozens-terrorists-country-refugees/story?id=20931131).


As a result of the Kentucky case, the State Department stopped processing Iraq refugees for six months in 2011, federal officials told ABC News – even for many who had heroically helped U.S. forces as interpreters and intelligence assets. One Iraqi who had aided American troops was assassinated before his refugee application could be processed, because of the immigration delays, two U.S. officials said.

And he also made it far more difficult for citizens from four countries to get visas by refusing to veto HR158. Here's somebody having a whinge about it in 2015: here (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/yasamin-beitollahi/an-open-letter-to-preside_23_b_8780216.html).

I must say, I don't recall anybody turning out on the streets to protest this FASCISM.

[Pepe]

Fortunately, TTH stands against the immediacy of modern life.

:cool:

[Jimmy Floyd]

Like The Merse and Ultimate Team, I should probably knock it all on the head and my life would be infinitely better once I'd weaned myself off it.

Once you realise that Twitter is just the same tossers talking to each other - and not a representation of the population - the world makes a lot more sense.

[Yevrah]

Once you realise that Twitter is just the same tossers talking to each other - and not a representation of the population - the world makes a lot more sense.

Oh I meant politics in general. I've never bothered with Twitter deliberately, but it's impossible to avoid these days.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Oh I meant politics in general. I've never bothered with Twitter deliberately, but it's impossible to avoid these days.

They are all obsessed with twitter - and echo chamber conversations more generally - so it comes to the same thing.

The other thing they are absolutely obsessed with, and enchanted by, is America. They all want to be Josh from the West Wing.

[randomlegend]

Some of the Moral Outrage Crowd must be aghast at Boris' clarification, as it suggests that they may have, once again, jumped the gun and misunderstood what's actually happening..

I mean there are actually student who went home for christmas who can't get back in. That seems pretty shitty to me.

I don't have twitter.

[Yevrah]

Suspending new entrants from countries there are concerns over is one thing, but not allowing people (back) into the country who already live and work there legally is fucking batshit.

That's the beginning and end of it really.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I know of someone (who has a surname that will suggest 'forrin' to the American ear) who hasn't been let into America for over 30 years, for no apparent reason. They are brutal and arbitrary in this stuff and always have been.

SIR YOU ARE COMMITTING A FEDERAL OFFENCE

[GS]

I mean there are actually student who went home for christmas who can't get back in. That seems pretty shitty to me.

I don't have twitter.

Which is perhaps somewhat less dreadful than being "assassinated before his refugee application could be processed, because of the immigration delays" imposed by Obama.

Not that I'm interested in one-upmanship here. The whole point is that a) nobody seems to have read the bloody thing and considered what it actually means and b) everybody complaining about it seems to have conveniently overlooked Obama doing similar.

I'm all for sticking the boot into Trump here for reasons previously outlined, but it's impossible to have a worthwhile discussion when all you can cite is isolated anecdotes.

[Yevrah]

That sounds a bit like "I met a black man"...

Why's he still trying if they won't let him in?

[Pepe]

Suspending new entrants from countries there are concerns over is one thing, but not allowing people (back) into the country who already live and work there legally is fucking batshit.

Agreed, but it seems that the latter won't be happening fortunately.

[Yevrah]

Agreed, but it seems that the latter won't be happening fortunately.

Because the judges overturned it, right? Not because it wasn't part of Trump's order.

[Pepe]

Because the judges overturned it, right? Not because it wasn't part of Trump's order.

Indeed.

If it was up to him everyone brown would be out by now.

[Mellberg]

Have you been conscripted to build the wall yet, Pepe?

[Pepe]

American workers only.

[Yevrah]

Indeed.

If it was up to him everyone brown would be out by now.

Not enough focus is on that bit then. The actually mental bit is being drowned out over all the screams around the other stuff. Fucking useless.

[ItalAussie]

They are all obsessed with twitter - and echo chamber conversations more generally - so it comes to the same thing.

I think Twitter caters to a certain kind of narcissist, who craves instant gratification, be that praise from their allies or criticism from their opponents. And I think you need to be a bit of a popularity-driven narcissist to succeed in politics, so it's the right-shaped jigsaw piece for the right-shaped space.

[Lewis]

https://www.facebook.com/LeicesterAgainstTrump

[GS]

Good to see Lee is diversifying his social media profile.

[Yevrah]

Is that don't suck up to hate banner, about a man they're protesting against that they all hate, meant to be ironic?

[GS]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3X-0ouVMAA_aH9.jpg

[Lewis]

The better picture is 'KEEP YOUR TINY HANDS OFF OUR RIGHTS + LIBERTIES' written in chalk on the floor. Leicester. You live in Leicester.

[GS]

This will probably end up being the long-term lolling point, as Daniel Hannan was gloating about last night.

His article from last year: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/article/2583180

Rather prescient, really.

[Bartholomert]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3X-0ouVMAA_aH9.jpg

Probably the right move...might be worth extending to student visas...

[John]

The other thing they are absolutely obsessed with, and enchanted by, is America. They all want to be Josh from the West Wing.

They want to be Toby, not Josh. The most used phrase on Twitter and Facebook is 'am I the only one who'.


Probably the right move...might be worth extending to student visas...

It will be indescribably funny when you get kicked out of the country for having a background which encourages terrorism or a nose which shames Lady Liberty or some such, but no doubt we won't hear about it.

[Bartholomert]

They want to be Toby, not Josh. The most used phrase on Twitter and Facebook is 'am I the only one who'.

It will be indescribably funny when you get kicked out of the country for having a background which encourages terrorism or a nose which shames Lady Liberty or some such, but no doubt we won't hear about it.

I'm an American citizen born in America to parents who are American citizens one of whom immigrated legally at least in part due to discrimination she experienced as a Christian. The Western world is in crisis, and mindlessly virtue signaling to see who can get the most likes on social media, is leading us into annihilation.

[Bartholomert]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3XBsxZUEAAXyuZ.jpg

Just a reminder...

[Danny]

899 people surveyed.

From January 5 – 9, Quinnipiac University surveyed 899 voters nationwide with a margin of error of +/- 3.3 percentage points. Live interviewers call landlines and cell phones.

[Queenslander]

:lol:

[ItalAussie]

The "lolworthy" hypocrisy of not including Saudi Arabia in the banned countries list. :D

[GS]

899 people surveyed.

From January 5 – 9, Quinnipiac University surveyed 899 voters nationwide with a margin of error of +/- 3.3 percentage points. Live interviewers call landlines and cell phones.

So at best a statistical tie or, at worst, a clear majority support it.

For all the vocal outrage, your average Trump voter (plus others) seems to think it's a fundamentally good idea.

[Henry]

The sample size sounds reasonable to me. People often get confused into thinking that the higher the sample, the more accurate the poll, which isn't really the case. Not by much anyway.

[phonics]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3aToc4WcAA7Y9V.jpg

tee hee

[Mazuuurk]

Say what you will about this ban, but the way it's seemingly not thought through how to practically enforce it, and the various edge cases it creates, is ridiculous.

Meanwhile I heard that University of Toronto are happily accepting people who all of a sudden are not allowed to go to MIT or Harvard etc. So much for the famous US braindrain that built the country and all :D

[Lewis]

Not to worry. The top American universities will soon be replenished by people living British ones because they love Europe so much.

[phonics]

In other website updates, something appears to be missing?

http://i.imgur.com/ijCUS1U.png

[Lewis]

I was following this Quebec shooting last night, and President Donald J. Trump was catching all the blame because, since Muslims never kill other Muslims, it was obviously white people inspired by him. I've just gone to check on it, and nobody seems to be talking about it. What's going on?

[phonics]

It'll turn out to be a nutter like the airport shooting so if we can't blame it on ISIS it's not news.

[Pepe]

I was following this Quebec shooting last night, and President Donald J. Trump was catching all the blame because, since Muslims never kill other Muslims, it was obviously white people inspired by him. I've just gone to check on it, and nobody seems to be talking about it. What's going on?

Not the US so nobody cares I guess?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Labour MP and former minister Yvette Cooper says Boris Johnson's statement that the travel ban "wouldn't be our policy" is "not good enough".

President Trump signed the order on Holocaust Memorial Day, she says, telling the foreign secretary forcefully: "For the sake of history, for heaven's sake, have the guts to speak out."

Boris Johnson says MPs have the chance "to come forward with fresh expressions of outrage".

MPs are openly shouting at him by this stage.

If we now have to be OUTRAGED about domestic laws of our allies, hmm, where to start?

[Magic]

I was following this Quebec shooting last night, and President Donald J. Trump was catching all the blame because, since Muslims never kill other Muslims, it was obviously white people inspired by him. I've just gone to check on it, and nobody seems to be talking about it. What's going on?

One of the most upvoted comments on Reddit about this was the suggestion of a white guy pretending to be a Muslim and shouting Allahu Akhbar. :D

They are so DESPERATE for it not to be the usual suspects because it doesn't fit their snowflake narrative.

[Pepe]

One of the most upvoted comments on Reddit about this was the suggestion of a white guy pretending to be a Muslim and shouting Allahu Akhbar. :D

They are so DESPERATE for it not to be the usual suspects because it doesn't fit their snowflake narrative.

It's all good. Every time it is not one of THE USUAL SUSPECTS we just call it a shooting instead of terrorism.

[Magic]

It's all good. Every time it is not one of THE USUAL SUSPECTS we just call it a shooting instead of terrorism.

Shut up, yellow snowflake.

[Pepe]

Btw, there was a school shooting in Mexico a week or two ago, in case anyone was interested. GUN CONTROL DOES NOT WORK.

[Magic]

Btw, there was a school shooting in Mexico a week or two ago, in case anyone was interested. GUN CONTROL DOES NOT WORK.

Was probably gang/drug related so who care.

[Pepe]

There is a video floating around, I would've guessed you were all over that shit.

[Magic]

Why? It's nothing new or different. I'm all over that guy getting eaten by Tigers in China. :drool:

[Lewis]

If we now have to be OUTRAGED about domestic laws of our allies, hmm, where to start?

Start with people like Yvette Cooper who were in government when we were shuttling people around to be tortured.

[Shindig]

This is all going so Nixon.

[phonics]

I was following this Quebec shooting last night, and President Donald J. Trump was catching all the blame because, since Muslims never kill other Muslims, it was obviously white people inspired by him. I've just gone to check on it, and nobody seems to be talking about it. What's going on?


It'll turn out to be a nutter like the airport shooting so if we can't blame it on ISIS it's not news.


It's all good. Every time it is not one of THE USUAL SUSPECTS we just call it a shooting instead of terrorism.


http://i.imgur.com/9VOnEpI.png

[Pepe]

Lone shooter with mental issues I am sure.

[phonics]

Meanwhile,

826145871511351297

[Pepe]

That's great. :D

[Lewis]

The flow of the NARRATIVE. It's obviously trending again now.

[Magic]

http://i.imgur.com/9VOnEpI.png

Gives me a boner that he's so white.

[Lewis]

Sean Spicer is a bit of a legend. I bet he lols his cock off once he gets behind closed doors.

Speaking of idiots, I missed John McCain criticising the MUSLIM BAN on the grounds that 'this executive order may do more to help terrorist recruitment than improve our security'. Mate. Mate.

[Pepe]

Slate: Look Which World Leaders Aren't Condemning the Ban.

:face:

[GS]

If we now have to be OUTRAGED about domestic laws of our allies, hmm, where to start?

I genuinely don't understand what these people expect. If we're required to condemn the domestic policies of every country where we have a relationship with a decision maker, we're fucked.

Fucking surely we should be saying "that's not our business, but where it impacts people in this country we will make representations". I assume they haven't taken the opportunity to have a go at the countries which ban Israeli passport holders from entering.

[GS]

Compounding the issue for the "Never Trump" brigade, we now have polling: here (http://m.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/immigration/january_2017/most_support_temporary_ban_on_newcomers_from_terro rist_havens)


Most voters approve of President Trump’s temporary halt to refugees and visitors from several Middle Eastern and African countries until the government can do a better job of keeping out individuals who are terrorist threats.

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone and online survey finds that 57% of Likely U.S. Voters favor a temporary ban on refugees from Syria, Iraq, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen until the federal government approves its ability to screen out potential terrorists from coming here. Thirty-three percent (33%) are opposed, while 10% are undecided. (To see survey question wording, click here.)

Similarly, 56% favor a temporary block on visas prohibiting residents of Syria, Iraq, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen from entering the United States until the government approves its ability to screen for likely terrorists. Thirty-two percent (32%) oppose this temporary ban, and 11% are undecided.

Someone have a word with Ed Balls' wife.

[Lewis]

My mate Owen Jones (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/30/donald-trump-resistance-protests-travel-ban-opposition?CMP=share_btn_tw) out-did himself earlier.


But the emerging Stop Trump movement needs to understand what it is up against. America’s democracy faces an unprecedented threat. The new president seeks to remodel American society and block opposition. His flagrant lies about millions of fraudulent votes in last year’s presidential election undoubtedly reflect the insecurity of an authoritarian demagogue who lost the popular vote.

But Trump has proved ingenious at deploying bluster and bravado to frame the terms of debate. He wants to rig the US electoral system against his opponents. This process has already started, with the purging of Democratic supporters from voting rolls last year, inflating Trump’s popular vote-defying win. He gained nearly 3 million fewer votes than Hillary Clinton: in a fair election this gap would have been even greater.

FACT. And anybody believing otherwise is a paranoid mess.

[GS]

I think these people genuinely don't understand that "popular vote" is irrelevant. We can file that next to "38% on a 60% turnout" that the likes of Caroline Lucas throw about as evidence why we should be governed by people she agrees with.

[Lewis]

It struck me earlier that the reason he BOTTLED Brexit, rather than simply being a case of him being scared of the People he believes that he speaks for, is because there is more work in it for him. Had he followed his convictions and gone for it, he would have just been left churning out the standard boilerplate shite for years to come, wittering on about fairness and his unquenchable thirst for migrant cock. On the other hand, by putting himself at the front of that 'reform Europe into communism' crowd, he will never be short of bollocks to pontificate on, and he can pinch a load of hotel towels and kettles as he does it, going on them speaking tours of the very countries being hammered by the waxworks he gets to spend the next forty years attempting to reform.

Cynical, Jones. You gobshite.

[ItalAussie]

"Popular vote" isn't irrelevant. It doesn't undermine the legitimacy of Trump's win, which was fair and completely valid under the rules. But you don't just rule for your own voters. If you sweep 60% of the vote and 40 states, there's no reason to hold back even a little bit from implementing your ideas, because it seems like the country in general approves. But if it's razor thin, you have to remember that there's a huge portion of the population that disagrees with your proposals, and that's a good reason to at least look at some kind of meeting in the middle (skewed to your side, which is fair given the result).

Politics isn't just about winning, despite the fact that it's turned increasingly tribal in the last 20 years. You govern for all the voters, not just the ones who voted for you. A popular vote loss suggests that an effective leader should probably reach out and find some sort of middle ground. Nobody is suggesting Trump should concede his position and go home. But they're suggesting that it's not the campaign anymore; he should remember that most of the country aren't Republican voters, and find a way to implement his plans which doesn't alienate his own populace.

Effective politics shouldn't just be "win or bust". But it's become practically a sporting event now. You only have to look at how particularly dogmatic members of one side or the other basically jerk off at the idea of their ideological opponents being unhappy. That's simply not a healthy way to govern, even though it's satisfying on an individual level.

[Bartholomert]

Well they have released poll results now, 57% in favor of the ban, 33% opposed:

http://m.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/immigration/january_2017/most_support_temporary_ban_on_newcomers_from_terro rist_havens

[ItalAussie]

From the title, I'd be honestly interested to hear how the question was framed. I don't think they say in the article?

EDIT: Found it. Seems reasonable, even if the headline is sensationalised a bit. Especially given that terrorists perpetrating attacks on US soil have been largely Saudi, so if any country is going to get described as a "terrorist haven"...

At any rate, I do absolutely think there has been a failure of communication in making publicly clear just how severe the US vetting process is. It's the toughest in the world, and it's been effective.

[Shindig]

Something Trump's probably not aware of so he just thinks, "I'll finally be tough on immigration."

He gets to the Oval Office and starts doing rather than actually seeing what's what. It's glorious.

[Magic]

He's FIRED the attorney general. :drool:

[leedsrevolution]

This presidency reminds me of when Leeds hired David Hockaday and Junior Lewis under the watchful eye of Celino.

[ItalAussie]

He's FIRED the attorney general. :drool:

Checks, meet balances.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Even if you accept that Owen Jones rant as true, which it largely probably is, they're still not addressing or recognising where Trump came from and why all those people voted for him, which lies in their own ivory tower, the same benighted structure which they are still trying to recast as the definition of goodness and morality.

[ItalAussie]

It seems to me that, more than anything, it's the highly partisan, entertainment-driven news that priotises sensationalist headlines (invading hordes of unvetted invading refugees are invading!) over measured, more subtle facts. The "elites" aren't the only people in echo chambers.