U.S. Presidential Election 2016 (Sponsored by Betty Croker's Hamburger Helper)

[Lewis]

Just Twitter search #NotMyPresident instead. Mass walk-out at some California high school. Do you even vote bro?

[Spoonsky]

Mert, you have to admit that for however much the media is biased, Trump couldn't have won without the media either. He got free advertising and airtime for virtually the entire primary.

[Bartholomert]

It was overwhelmingly negative coverage, I can gin up the studies if you're unconvinced. Promoting that notion was just a typical attempt by the Left to obfuscate the Truth, which was the overwhelming bias of the media against Trump.

[Spoonsky]

Oh, I know that (the first part). But if you agree with the idea that any publicity is good publicity, you can see how having his face plastered over every television for eighteen months helped him out a little.

[Spoonsky]

A question that's in the back of my mind is: who will the Democrats nominate in four years?

People on the internet were suggesting Michelle Obama, which, while she's great, would be about the lollest thing ever given the course of this election.

[Lewis]

Why not you, mate?

[Pepe]

Why not me?

[7om]

:drool:

[Spoonsky]

I'm moving to Canada. I'll send my absentee ballot for Pepe though.

[Pepe]

As long as lefties keep thinking that it is all because of racism/sexism, they'll keep getting fucked in the arse.

Lunch at the Romance Language and Literature department was fun today. :)

[Jimmy Floyd]

I can't see how an 'insider' will ever win again, so it'll probably be Kanye West v Chuck Norris.

[Henry]

Human civilisation is in mortal danger, I fear. We are heading into a period of geopolitical, environmental and economic destruction.

There is no brake on these processes given the Congressional results. Trump's puppet-masters, if there are any, will be the fascistic GOP. Good luck with that, humanity.

[Shindig]

I don't think the left like being in a minority. #9/11.

[Vim]

The Rock please.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Could Barack Hussein Obama come back in four years, or did they outlaw that after FDR?

[Lewis]

Why not me?

You know why, 'hombre'.

[Magic]

Human civilisation is in mortal danger, I fear. We are heading into a period of geopolitical, environmental and economic destruction.

There is no brake on these processes given the Congressional results. Trump's puppet-masters, if there are any, will be the fascistic GOP. Good luck with that, humanity.

Get fucked you spastic.

[Pepe]

I don't think the left like being in a minority. #9/11.

But they got the popular vote!


Could Barack Hussein Obama come back in four years, or did they outlaw that after FDR?

Michelle mate, Michelle.

[Pepe]

You know why, 'hombre'.

Just by being a POC I have all the democrats on my side. I just have to bring up my Catholic upbringing and my country roots and half of the republicans will be on my side too. I guess the only thing missing is a citizenship. How old is your sister, Spoons?

EDIT: Lets not forget that I am part of a research group that works on 'clean coal,' so I already have the global warming denialist vote covered.

[Max Power]

The Rock please.

There is another who has experience of turning over the President-Elect...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTtfVOyVsf0

Stone Cold is a nailed on Republican though surely?

[Lewis]

Just by being a POC I have all the democrats on my side. I just have to bring up my Catholic upbringing and my country roots and half of the republicans will be on my side too. I guess the only thing missing is a citizenship. How old is your sister, Spoons?

EDIT: Lets not forget that I am part of a research group that works on 'clean coal,' so I already have the global warming denialist vote covered.

Pepe/mokbull 2020.

[Shindig]

Certified wife-beater, naturally. I'd love to see if the Republicans have Donald's tax return as a 'get out'. First President in history never to do that. And now he won't be the last.

[Henry]

Get fucked you spastic.

We're all going to get fucked. If you think that dismantling environmental and financial regulation, and giving Donald J. Trump the nuclear codes is going to lead to stability, then LOL.

[Bartholomert]

Human civilisation is in mortal danger, I fear. We are heading into a period of geopolitical, environmental and economic destruction.

There is no brake on these processes given the Congressional results. Trump's puppet-masters, if there are any, will be the fascistic GOP. Good luck with that, humanity.

Tell me how you really feel cuck:

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t34.0-12/14996373_10154607058841678_643570606_n.jpg?oh=a8c1 8d493222f0b0b37edbbe3a2f0b2e&oe=58260E1B

[Shindig]

Mert reminds me how much the internet has taken us back several steps.

[Magic]

We're all going to get fucked. If you think that dismantling environmental and financial regulation, and giving Donald J. Trump the nuclear codes is going to lead to stability, then LOL.

Even though he's an inward looking leader and has said there will be no meddling in foreign affairs? Cunton was more likely to nuke.

[Henry]

Tell me how you really feel cuck:

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t34.0-12/14996373_10154607058841678_643570606_n.jpg?oh=a8c1 8d493222f0b0b37edbbe3a2f0b2e&oe=58260E1B

You're still a moron even if your Head Moron won, you know.

[Vim]

The Facebook posts from the guy who called me racist are a fucking goldmine. He apparently got someone to come to a field with him and take melancholic artistic pictures of him (with Instagram filter ofc) to post with captions "darkness lies ahead" and "phase of denial". :D

[Henry]

Even though he's an inward looking leader and has said there will be no meddling in foreign affairs? Cunton was more likely to nuke.

If he said that, and I don't recall that he did, it was contradicted by very many of his other statements including questioning of national security people about why he can't just use nukes since he has them.

[Magic]

If he said that, and I don't recall that he did, it was contradicted by very many of his other statements including questioning of national security people about why he can't just use nukes since he has them.

No that was an unconfirmed rumour.

[Pepe]

Environmental policy will be an issue, but that one has always been on the losing path unfortunately.

I hope I get a tax cut at least.

[Vim]

human civilisation is in mortal danger, i fear. We are heading into a period of geopolitical, environmental and economic destruction.

There is no brake on these processes given the congressional results. Trump's puppet-masters, if there are any, will be the fascistic gop. Good luck with that, humanity.

NO BRAKES

Do you propose we dismantle democracy?

[Henry]

NO BRAKES

Do you propose we dismantle democracy?

Why would you think I meant that?
Support for democracy doesn't mean one has to like all of the decisions of the electorate.

[Lewis]

This (https://samkriss.com/2016/11/09/how-you-lost-the-world/) is good.

[Lewis]

One (http://static.currentaffairs.org/2016/02/unless-the-democrats-nominate-sanders-a-trump-nomination-means-a-trump-presidency) for the Bernie Bros as well. Oof.

[Pepe]

One (http://static.currentaffairs.org/2016/02/unless-the-democrats-nominate-sanders-a-trump-nomination-means-a-trump-presidency) for the Bernie Bros as well. Oof.

Shiii. :(

Not often you find a candidate as all-around ace as Bernie. They really fucked this one up.

[Pen]

I have to say I'm quite disappointed for lack of lolling at States electing a leader without any experience or knowledge to run their country.

Wouldn't this be like Australians getting Murdoch (he's Australian, right?) or the UK getting Gordon Ramsay or Simon Cowell.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Simon Cowell :D

I suppose it's more like us getting Theo Paphitis. It would be quite hard for us to have a celebrity become PM, as they not only have to find a parliamentary seat, they then have to be elected leader of the party and then win a general election, all of which takes time, and celebrities get bored quickly. In America, the only real barrier to entry is the ability to raise hundreds of millions of dollars.

[Spikey M]

Prime Minister Richard Branson :drool:

I supose the direct comparison would be Our Lord Sugar, which would be all sorts of lol. The unstable fucker.

[Shindig]

Yeah, we have an actual route to goal that requires you to deal with Westminster. Reagan, Schwarzenegger have cut corners, so to speak. Add Jesse Ventura to that as well. All of that paved the way for Trump. Americans hold a certain trust in celebrities more than polticians. At some point, it's all about branding.

I blame reality TV and the internet. And I'll reiterate: Trump is campest father of five I've ever seen.

[Spikey M]

President Kanye 2024.

[Shindig]

You want the white votes, man. It's either Will Smith or Bruce Sprinsteen.

[Kikó]

Updated poll numbers

231,556,622 eligible voters

46.9% didn't vote
25.6% voted for Clinton
25.5% voted for Trump
1.7% voted for Johnson

[Luke Emia]

The amount of cunts at work today. Some girl told me she was scared. Of what? We live in Norfolk. Why do people over her have to get so wound up by what happens in America.

For the record I think he is a bit of a tard. But, when the other option is the devil woman you are always going to struggle.

[Henry]

70,000,000 or so? That many idiots.

I'd hope that Trump dies, or gets shot, or resigns or whatever but then we get President Pence. Arguably worse.

[Lofty]

Reading a bit deeper apparently regarding SCOTUS if Kennedy or Ginsberg die (and they're both in their 80's) then the left is proper, proper fucked.

[Luke Emia]

I was listening to 5 live earlier the state of the bloke on there from America. Harold would have been turning in his grave.

[Lewis]

The French Foreign Minister (who probably has a micropenis) sez: 'Europe cannot blink after Brexit, after the election of Donald Trump with all the questions being raised, Europe must stand together more, be more active and go more on the offensive even if it is just to protect itself'.

Nigel Farage apparently knows a bloke in the White House, and he reckons he can get us to the front of the queue, so let's fucking 'ave yer!

http://i67.tinypic.com/2lj6eya.png

[Pepe]

Dear International Students,

We know that many of you may be feeling shock, and fear and other strong emotions in reaction to the results of the 2016 Presidential Election. This has been a long and contentious election season and many statements have been made by candidates and supporters that have had an alienating impact on foreign nationals in the U.S., immigrants, women, people of color, members of the LGBTQIA community, people of other faiths and people with disabilities.

Please know that the staff members of the OISS are available to you. If you need to process how you are feeling, if you have questions, if you want to talk through things with someone, we are available for those conversations and to offer you support.
We will also be hosting open meetings for international students. The purpose of these meetings is to allow a dedicated time for you to come and ask any questions you may have and express any thoughts or feelings you would like to share about your experiences and what is happening in the country right now.

Thursday, November 10, 2016: 7:00 - 9:00 pm, Stix House Living Room
Friday, November 11, 2016: 4:00 - 5:00 pm, Stix House Living Room

You should have also received an email from the Center for Diversity and Inclusion about support space for students. That email is attached for your quick reference. We encourage you to make use of these spaces as well.

We ask you to remember to take care of yourselves. Continue to get rest, to eat well, to offer and receive support from your friends and those close to you. Be intentional about where you spend your time and your energy. And don't give up hope. We also know and understand that there can be a variety of perspectives within the international student community as well as the greater WashU community. When you are ready to engage those who may hold a different viewpoint than you remember to approach these conversations from a place of seeking to understand and to be understood.

Warmest Regards,
The Advisors of the Office for International Students and Scholars

Might have to pop in.

[ItalAussie]

The most the Democrats can do at this point is filibuster in the senate. Hopefully that will at least stop them from eliminating hospitals entirely and putting Rush Limbaugh on the Supreme Court. It'll be interesting to see if he governs like a traditional Republican or if he takes a more populist course.

Healthcare will be the bellwether for that one. If he slices out the rules regarding pre-existing conditions, he's an Establishment Republican in Populist clothing. If he finds a way to save it, he meant what he said, and it'll be a heck of a ride.


EDIT: The third item in which I could see him doing lasting damage is the environment and climate change, but the Republicans were always going to get back in charge at some point, so it was just a matter of time. I'm pretty fatalistic about humanity's ability to deal with that in general, so no unexpected harm done.

[Queenslander]

I have to say I'm quite disappointed for lack of lolling at States electing a leader without any experience or knowledge to run their country.

Wouldn't this be like Australians getting Murdoch (he's Australian, right?) or the UK getting Gordon Ramsay or Simon Cowell.

Our Donald Trump is in the Senate.

[Queenslander]

It will be interesting to see how fast he can fuck up the environment?

[Spoonsky]

EDIT: The third item in which I could see him doing lasting damage is the environment and climate change, but the Republicans were always going to get back in charge at some point, so it was just a matter of time. I'm pretty fatalistic about humanity's ability to deal with that in general, so no unexpected harm done.

Pretty impressive by Obama and the rest of the world to jam through the Paris Treaty before the election though.

[phonics]

It will be interesting to see how fast he can fuck up the environment?

Today

796375564345110529

[Vim]

LGBTQIA

They need to stop adding letters to this, it's getting a bit silly.

[Queenslander]

Yikes. A lot of yummy drinking water is on it's way to rural America!

[Spoonsky]

They need to stop adding letters to this, it's getting a bit silly.

Yeah! You tell em!

[Pepe]

So insensitive.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

The Q was a bit much as it was.

[Lewis]

I like 'Be intentional about where you spend your time and your energy'. What, in case you accidentally join the Klan?

[GS]

https://www.theguardian.com/membership/2016/nov/09/with-trump-victorious-time-to-support-fearless-independent-journalism

The Guardian don't miss a trick, do they?

I'm saving my trawl through the Guardian for work tomorrow - it's something to look forward to. I assume they've defaulted to sneering and palpable anger that so many people could disagree with their world view.

[Boydy]

I'm saving my trawl through the Guardian for work tomorrow - it's something to look forward to. I assume they've defaulted to sneering and palpable anger that so many people could disagree with their world view.

I don't even know; their clickbaity headlines put me off reading much of it these days.

[GS]

I've only perused the home page, but we have headlines such as:


The moment America laid waste to democracy as we know it
Trump's victory is a dark day for the world
I've got the safety net of being white - so why am I so worried about Trump?
How do I tell my daughter that America elected a racist, sexist bully?
Globalisation is dead and white supremacy has triumphed


It all seems fairly measured in the circumstances.

[ItalAussie]

That said, I do think the Democrats should stonewall on the Supreme Court. The Republicans opened hostilities there a year ago, so turnabout is fair play.

[GS]

That said, I do think the Democrats should stonewall on the Supreme Court. The Republicans opened hostilities there a year ago, so turnabout is fair play.

I would agree. It's galling to see that sort of behaviour rewarded by the electorate, but there you are.

[ItalAussie]

It'll also be interesting to see how they manage to roll back the Clinton prosecution rhetoric. They're clearly not going to do anything about it (being as it was a convenient fiction), and Trump basically made that clear in his speech. But a lot of their voter base believed it, and are still riled up and want to see her on the stand.

[Lewis]

They should hope she gets a full pardon on her way out, and then they can just seethe off that for twenty years without being able/having to do anything.

[ItalAussie]

Can you pardon someone not found guilty of any crime? That'd be the ultimate passive aggressive act, if nothing else.

"I'd like to pardon George from across the street, for his general air of smugness."

[Lewis]

Richard Nixon got his for things he 'committed or may have committed or taken part in', since he was never actually charged with anything (bailed because/before they were going to), so it would be like that. You could use the same excuses about not wanting to inflame tensions as well, although it would necessitate 'Hillary' agreeing to look guilty and sacrificing her reputation (or what remains of it) forever.

[ItalAussie]

Also, if Trump does try to enact some of his more populist ideas - particularly term limits on Congress - it'll be fascinating to see how it plays out. The Republicans will have to be the ones to stop it, and they 100% won't want that legislation to pass. We could see some very interesting intra-party warfare if Trump does choose to play his own hand.

I'll also be interested to see if he's serious about cleaning out Washington. If he does what he says he'll do with lobbyists, foreign interests, offshore tax havens, etc., then I won't be able to deny that some good will have come from this. :sorry:

[Bernanke]

The Facebook posts from the guy who called me racist are a fucking goldmine. He apparently got someone to come to a field with him and take melancholic artistic pictures of him (with Instagram filter ofc) to post with captions "darkness lies ahead" and "phase of denial". :D

I need a PM of this. :D


Might have to pop in.

At a goddamn college. :face:

[Bernanke]

Edit: Apparently Boydy posted this earlier.

[Boydy]

I posted that earlier.

[Bartholomert]

Trump's pledges for his first 100 day in office, It's unbelievable that we are literally going to be able to undo EVERYTHING Obama did in the last 8 years and then some: http://www.npr.org/2016/11/09/501451368/here-is-what-donald-trump-wants-to-do-in-his-first-100-days

[Spoonsky]

Edit: Apparently Boydy posted this earlier.


I posted that earlier.

What did he post earlier?!

[ItalAussie]

Trump's pledges for his first 100 day in office, It's unbelievable that we are literally going to be able to undo EVERYTHING Obama did in the last 8 years and then some: http://www.npr.org/2016/11/09/501451368/here-is-what-donald-trump-wants-to-do-in-his-first-100-days

Democrats can still filibuster, and should unless they get very reasonable concessions on healthcare. The big one has to be laws ensuring cover for people with pre-existing conditions. There'll be some pretty serious pushback if they actually try to take away healthcare from people who are relying on Obamacare, too.

You think Trump will do all of those things? Cos I'm happy to tick them off as an when he accomplishes them, and we can see in this thread where we're at after 100 days. There's a few things on there I'd quite like to see, and I have to admit that I have little faith in his ability to get them done.

[Dark Soldier]

Mert is gonna be insufferable for months now, and long may it continue. You wankers still bite.

[Bartholomert]

Democrats can still filibuster, and should unless they get very reasonable concessions on healthcare. The big one has to be laws ensuring cover for people with pre-existing conditions. There'll be some pretty serious pushback if they actually try to take away healthcare from people who are relying on Obamacare, too.

You think Trump will do all of those things? Cos I'm happy to tick them off as an when he accomplishes them, and we can see in this thread where we're at after 100 days. There's a few things on there I'd quite like to see, and I have to admit that I have little faith in his ability to get them done.

Just like you had little faith that he would get elected, eh? The God Emperor will come through for us, THE PEOPLE, because he loves America and he's there for US.

They can't filibuster forever, and if they do, Republican Senators can just get rid of the filibuster (just like the Democrats were threatening to do if they won the Senate and nominated SCOTUS judges that would be blocked by the GOP).

[ItalAussie]

Just like you had little faith that he would get elected, eh? The God Emperor will come through for us, THE PEOPLE, because he loves America and he's there for US.

They can't filibuster forever, and if they do, Republican Senators can just get rid of the filibuster (just like the Democrats were threatening to do if they won the Senate and nominated SCOTUS judges that would be blocked by the GOP).

Everyone knew the Democrats couldn't get rid of the filibuster. It's an empty threat, because they know that one day they'll be in opposition again, and they'll need it that day. Neither party will ever get rid of it, because it's the safety valve. To beat a filibuster, you need to turn public opinion. It's like Senate rules in Australia - every party in minority government talks about putting in a way past it, but nobody ever will, because one day they'll need it. Checks and balances, if you will.

Look, if Trump pulls off everything on that list, I'd certainly be happy to see some of those political reforms. I don't think he's willing to start a war with his own party three months in. I'd be happy to be wrong. I didn't think he'd get elected, and I was wrong. I don't think he can enact policy that his own party will try and obstruct. I might be wrong, but we'll wait and see.

[ItalAussie]

* FIRST, propose a Constitutional Amendment to impose term limits on all members of Congress;
He'll propose it. It won't get through the houses. But technically sure.


* SECOND, a hiring freeze on all federal employees to reduce federal workforce through attrition (exempting military, public safety, and public health);
I can see him doing that.


* THIRD, a requirement that for every new federal regulation, two existing regulations must be eliminated;
Will probably get filibustered as law. Will be de facto followed by Republicans during the term, but won't last the next administration.


* FOURTH, a 5 year-ban on White House and Congressional officials becoming lobbyists after they leave government service;
Good luck with that. I'd love to see it though.


* FIFTH, a lifetime ban on White House officials lobbying on behalf of a foreign government;
As above.


* SIXTH, a complete ban on foreign lobbyists raising money for American elections.
As above.


On the same day, I will begin taking the following 7 actions to protect American workers:

* FIRST, I will announce my intention to renegotiate NAFTA or withdraw from the deal under Article 2205
Very doable. Even more so since it's just an intention. He might find some internal party resistance, so he's given enough wiggle room ("intention", "renegotiate") to get out of it without actually having to do anything at all in practice.


* SECOND, I will announce our withdrawal from the Trans-Pacific Partnership
He will, and I support that. I never liked the TPP. Ironically because it benefitted the US too much at our expense. :D


* THIRD, I will direct my Secretary of the Treasury to label China a currency manipulator
He'll do that. It costs nothing and can't be blocked.


* FOURTH, I will direct the Secretary of Commerce and U.S. Trade Representative to identify all foreign trading abuses that unfairly impact American workers and direct them to use every tool under American and international law to end those abuses immediately
As above.


* FIFTH, I will lift the restrictions on the production of $50 trillion dollars' worth of job-producing American energy reserves, including shale, oil, natural gas and clean coal.
He'll do that with full party support. It makes me sad, but it was a given that whoever and whenever the next Republican President appeared, they would do likewise. If it's in the ground, it's going to get dug up eventually.


* SIXTH, lift the Obama-Clinton roadblocks and allow vital energy infrastructure projects, like the Keystone Pipeline, to move forward
As above.


* SEVENTH, cancel billions in payments to U.N. climate change programs and use the money to fix America's water and environmental infrastructure
As above, which does make me sad. We're actually starting to make honest international progress on at least mitigating climate change effects. :(


* FIRST, cancel every unconstitutional executive action, memorandum and order issued by President Obama
Which is none of them. But fine. This is just words that sound good, to be honest.


* SECOND, begin the process of selecting a replacement for Justice Scalia from one of the 20 judges on my list, who will uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States
He can start the process on his own, so yeah, he'll do that. Actually getting the Justice through is going to be more of a challenge, because the Republicans have already started the war. I'd be alright with someone center-right though, putting Kennedy back in swing-vote land, but preventing utterly ridiculous rulings.


* THIRD, cancel all federal funding to Sanctuary Cities
He'll do that with full party support.


* FOURTH, begin removing the more than 2 million criminal illegal immigrants from the country and cancel visas to foreign countries that won't take them back
Some weasel words here. A process begun is a process that can be changed as much as necessary.


* FIFTH, suspend immigration from terror-prone regions where vetting cannot safely occur. All vetting of people coming into our country will be considered extreme vetting.
He'll do it with full party support. Given that US vetting is some of the most extreme in the world, he won't even need to actually change much.


Next, I will work with Congress to introduce the following broader legislative measures and fight for their passage within the first 100 days of my Administration:

Middle Class Tax Relief And Simplification Act. An economic plan designed to grow the economy 4% per year and create at least 25 million new jobs through massive tax reduction and simplification, in combination with trade reform, regulatory relief, and lifting the restrictions on American energy. The largest tax reductions are for the middle class. A middle-class family with 2 children will get a 35% tax cut. The current number of brackets will be reduced from 7 to 3, and tax forms will likewise be greatly simplified. The business rate will be lowered from 35 to 15 percent, and the trillions of dollars of American corporate money overseas can now be brought back at a 10 percent rate.
He'll probably get that to work, although the likes of Paul Ryan et al. will be the actual policy authors.


End The Offshoring Act. Establishes tariffs to discourage companies from laying off their workers in order to relocate in other countries and ship their products back to the U.S. tax-free.
I don't see him getting this through. I think his own party will obstruct it.


American Energy & Infrastructure Act. Leverages public-private partnerships, and private investments through tax incentives, to spur $1 trillion in infrastructure investment over 10 years. It is revenue neutral.
Revenue neutral handouts? Good luck with that. But he'll have no trouble getting it through. I'll be more surprised if he gets it to work; I reckon it'll pump the debt into the stratosphere. But he'll get it implemented in some form.


School Choice And Education Opportunity Act. Redirects education dollars to give parents the right to send their kid to the public, private, charter, magnet, religious or home school of their choice. Ends common core, brings education supervision to local communities. It expands vocational and technical education, and make 2 and 4-year college more affordable.
As a university educator, I'll confirm that the big benefit to common core is not ideological. It's that you have an accurate gauge of what your incoming students actually know. Still, it came from the Democrats, so it's toxic to the Republicans. Wasn't going to survive another administration. Otherwise, this is standard conservative education policy.


Repeal and Replace Obamacare Act. Fully repeals Obamacare and replaces it with Health Savings Accounts, the ability to purchase health insurance across state lines, and lets states manage Medicaid funds. Reforms will also include cutting the red tape at the FDA: there are over 4,000 drugs awaiting approval, and we especially want to speed the approval of life-saving medications.
Democrats will filibuster unless they get some pretty huge concessions here. I don't actually think Trump will mind that much either; this was clearly an attack issue that he could get base traction with, but I doubt he truly cares that much about the content. Having the Democrats filibuster the law can make him look magnanimous by implementing concessions on things that voters are largely in favour of, and then saying he needed to do it to get the legislation through.


Affordable Childcare and Eldercare Act. Allows Americans to deduct childcare and elder care from their taxes, incentivizes employers to provide on-side childcare services, and creates tax-free Dependent Care Savings Accounts for both young and elderly dependents, with matching contributions for low-income families.
Are Republicans actually on board with this? Probably, since it's a new tax deduction.


End Illegal Immigration Act Fully-funds the construction of a wall on our southern border with the full understanding that the country Mexico will be reimbursing the United States for the full cost of such wall; establishes a 2-year mandatory minimum federal prison sentence for illegally re-entering the U.S. after a previous deportation, and a 5-year mandatory minimum for illegally re-entering for those with felony convictions, multiple misdemeanor convictions or two or more prior deportations; also reforms visa rules to enhance penalties for overstaying and to ensure open jobs are offered to American workers first.
I, for one, am fascinated to see how Mexico approach this. Honestly, I can't wait to see it. Trump put too much into this for him to drop the policy, but it is poorly costed and depends on forces he can't totally control. If this fails badly, it could hurt him come re-election time, because it's basically synonymous with his campaign. I'm not saying it will, but I am saying that it'll be really intriguing to see how this goes down.


Restoring Community Safety Act. Reduces surging crime, drugs and violence by creating a Task Force On Violent Crime and increasing funding for programs that train and assist local police; increases resources for federal law enforcement agencies and federal prosecutors to dismantle criminal gangs and put violent offenders behind bars.
"Task Force" is code for "Cheap and Requires Nothing". Piece of cake, with no real actual effects.


Restoring National Security Act. Rebuilds our military by eliminating the defense sequester and expanding military investment; provides Veterans with the ability to receive public VA treatment or attend the private doctor of their choice; protects our vital infrastructure from cyber-attack; establishes new screening procedures for immigration to ensure those who are admitted to our country support our people and our values
More money for the military is Republican bread & butter. Easy pass.


Clean up Corruption in Washington Act. Enacts new ethics reforms to Drain the Swamp and reduce the corrupting influence of special interests on our politics.
This is going to be a word sandwich that his own party will gut to ensure that they can get away with everything they were getting away with two days ago. But something toothless with that name in a highly neutered form will pass.

[John Arne]

Genuine question, Mert - how does the fact the despite Clinton winning the popular vote and not winning the election - sit those Americans always screaming about the US being the most democratic country in the world? Texans and Californians are massively underrepresented in the elections - like 30% of them literally don't have a vote that counts.

[Bartholomert]

Good post / breakdown Ital, it will be interesting to see how it pans out, I'm excited for the opportunity for conservative governance to prove itself as reasonable and effective.

[Bartholomert]

Genuine question, Mert - how does the fact the despite Clinton winning the popular vote and not winning the election - sit those Americans always screaming about the US being the most democratic country in the world? Texans and Californians are massively underrepresented in the elections - like 30% of them literally don't have a vote that counts.

It's how federalism was intended, so that power of one state to determine the outcome of the election is diluted. We are a constitutional republic, NOT a democracy.

[John Arne]

Yeah, I get why it exists, that wasn't my question.

How does it sit with the yee-hah's DEMOCRACY lovers (on both sides)... is it just accepted as something that has to exist, or do they just turn a blind eye to it?

[ItalAussie]

Good post / breakdown Ital, it will be interesting to see how it pans out, I'm excited for the opportunity for conservative governance to prove itself as reasonable and effective.

I'm not saying I'm delighted about the outcome (I'm obviously not). But the US was going to get conservative government again at some point, and I do believe it can be done reasonably. I choose to hope that Trump being slightly less beholden to the party machine means he'll be able to take a crack at that. I'm not sackcloth and ashesing, is what I'm driving at.

[ItalAussie]

The result of the popular vote does tend to have an impression on the size of the political mandate the President is being given. If you win both, you have more political leverage. But I think this might be negated slightly here because everyone is reeling a little at the surprise.

[Bartholomert]

Yeah, I get why it exists, that wasn't my question.

How does it sit with the yee-hah's DEMOCRACY lovers (on both sides)... is it just accepted as something that has to exist, or do they just turn a blind eye to it?

Democracy is just another word for mob rule. I don't believe in pure democracy where minority rights would get trampled on by the majority. I like America's system.

[Bartholomert]

I liked this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/5c5ctg/they_just_dont_fucking_get_it/

[John Arne]

I really don't get why people are protesting. Yes, I know you are upset - but this is how elections work... you don't always get what you want.

[Spoonsky]

Obviously it's easy for me to say this now, but having thought about it I honestly think it would be better* for the Popular Vote to determine the election. Turnout would surely be higher, with a Republican in California and a Democrat in Georgia finally making a difference. It would also mean that certain random swing states don't get 90% of the attention in the last three months of the election (and make Bruhdinho's and Mert's votes, unfortunately, far more important than mine was).

*Not the same as more constitutionally correct, chill out Mert.

[John Arne]

You could just make a amendment to the constitution...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

[Spoonsky]

Good post / breakdown Ital, it will be interesting to see how it pans out, I'm excited for the opportunity for conservative governance to prove itself as reasonable and effective.

I'm actually with you on this. For the last eight years Republicans have been so overwhelmingly negative and destructive, I'm interested to see what happens now that they actually have to implement policy instead of opposing it.

[Spoonsky]

https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14980654_1174781542614709_3774152563186954255_n.jp g?oh=538bdba55e1f3588ed6ee530f6747be2&oe=58D1C9DA

[Shindig]

The popular vote was down to 0.1% You can't govern on that.

[Spoonsky]

That's a fair point, although who can say what the Popular Vote would have been if that was what determined the election.

[Magic]

Today

796375564345110529

I thought that was an emissions graph spike caused by all the rednecks revving the shit out of their V12 diesels trucks.

[Lofty]

Should compare that to the Viagra share price, I bet he gave Melania a thrashing round the bedroom of Trump Tower last night.

[Spikey M]

I thought that was an emissions graph spike caused by all the rednecks revving the shit out of their V12 diesels trucks.

:D

[Queenslander]

Australia approves of our new leader of the free world.

[Jimmy Floyd]

This is starting to annoy me. I think Trump's a vacuous tit of a man, but liberal types on twitter, particularly British ones, really need to fucking get over themselves. They are just as 'divisive' as he is.

[Byron]

I agree to an extent. Having an opinion is fine and let's not delude ourselves into thinking that whinging at a result is purely a prerogative of the Left but it's done, he's President and we'll just need to see what happens.

[Byron]

Besides, it's not like his opponent was much better. She's pretty much the lizard queen of the Establishment and for so long treated the election as a foregone conclusion.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I agree to an extent. Having an opinion is fine and let's not delude ourselves into thinking that whinging at a result is purely a prerogative of the Left but it's done, he's President and we'll just need to see what happens.

I don't mind whingeing about the result, all's fair in love and war, they just need to stop being massive drama queens. Relax, go outside, have a drink.

[Byron]

And on that point, I'd agree. It's not the result I wanted but the world will keep turning and life will go on.

[phonics]

I don't mind whingeing about the result, all's fair in love and war, they just need to stop being massive drama queens. Relax, go outside, have a drink.

But that's just not how the internet works is it? You're not going to post on Twitter, "I don't agree but I'm getting on with my life". You're not going to post on here unless you feel like you have something to say so what's the difference?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Ital for one has demonstrated otherwise within the last two pages of this thread.

[phonics]

In more than 140 characters.

[John]

That's why Twitter is an absolutely useless platform for seriously addressing things. Post pictures, link to longer content, post jokes, but if your opinion on an issue can fit on Twitter then it's probably not an opinion the world needs to hear. The divs putting (1/17) at the end of their tweets should be booted out through a back door and into a Blogger account.

[phonics]

Donald Trump (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/donaldtrump) tapped into the anger of a declining middle class that is sick and tired of establishment economics, establishment politics and the establishment media.People are tired of working longer hours for lower wages, of seeing decent paying jobs go to China and other low-wage countries, of billionaires not paying any federal income taxes and of not being able to afford a college education for their kids – all while the rich become very much richer.

To the degree that Mr Trump is serious about pursuing policies that improve the lives of working families in this country, I and other progressives are prepared to work with him.

To the degree that he pursues racist, sexist, xenophobic and anti-environment policies, we will vigorously oppose him.

Bernie would have made Trump look like an utter gimp

[Lewis]

I thought that was an emissions graph spike caused by all the rednecks revving the shit out of their V12 diesels trucks.

The only things that use diesel V12s are things like trains and ships.

[Lewis]

I don't mind whingeing about the result, all's fair in love and war, they just need to stop being massive drama queens. Relax, go outside, have a drink.

Boris Johnson ought to go down in history as the man who broke Nick Cohen. He's throwing a right wobbler, presumably because once we stopped being able to visit Europe he planned to holiday in New England.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Bernie would have made Trump look like an utter gimp

Hillary made him look like a gimp by your measure, and yet here we are.

[randomlegend]

The only things that use diesel V12s are things like trains and ships.

That's got to be competing for most boring post in history.

[Lewis]

Today it is. But imagine if he made that joke elsewhere, and somebody overheard him who knew about these things.

'Haha, yeah. But you wouldn't really put a diesel V12 in a truck, so...'

There goes the rest of the day, and probably the rest of his life when he goes home like a coiled spring and kicks off.

[randomlegend]

And now you've denied us that.

Also, it's all well and good the "he won stop whinging get on with it the world keeps turning" sentiment, but Trump's approach to climate change is genuinely scary. He could do pretty much irreparable damage over the next 4 years if he follows through with his plans, and that has consequences for the whole world not just the US of A. He's already put a climate change denier in charge of the Environmental Protection Agency as I understand it.

[Jimmy Floyd]

And now you've denied us that.

Also, it's all well and good the "he won stop whinging get on with it the world keeps turning" sentiment, but Trump's approach to climate change is genuinely scary. He could do pretty much irreparable damage over the next 4 years if he follows through with his plans, and that has consequences for the whole world not just the US of A. He's already put a climate change denier in charge of the Environmental Protection Agency as I understand it.

He may well do, but the Hindu nationalists currently in charge of India are probably far worse, and nobody whines about them.

There's just a lack of perspective I think.

[ItalAussie]

Climate change is the one thing that genuinely worries me. For better or worse, the US is seen as a global leader in environmental stuff. Other countries do tend to come into line if the US leads. We've made quite a lot of good progress in the last year - championed significantly by the current US administration - and I'd hate to see that good work go down the tubes.

It's also basically one of the two things that a US President can do which could have a tangible impact on me. And given that I have to assume they give Presidents fake nuclear codes (would you trust any politician with the real ones?), it's certainly the most pressing. But again, there was going to be a Republican President again one day, so it was always going to come to a head.

[randomlegend]

He may well do, but the Hindu nationalists currently in charge of India are probably far worse, and nobody whines about them.

There's just a lack of perspective I think.

No, it's just worse seeing a nation like the US take a monumental step backwards than it is seeing that India haven't progressed to the point where they come on board with tackling climate change yet.

[mugbull]

It's not a lack of perspective, it's a fear of yourself being labeled "liberal" -and "naive" that makes you take this fatalistic attitude. You stand up for nothing, and some things are worth standing up for. Human progress is achieved only through greater human cooperation - which is opposite of the direction he's going.

And don't ridicule my "human progress" line with some snarky World War II reference or whatever you like pulling out of your ass. It makes you look out of touch.

[Yevrah]

As if Hillary Clinton represented 'human progress'. :D

[Jimmy Floyd]

It's not a lack of perspective, it's a fear of yourself being labeled "liberal" -and "naive" that makes you take this fatalistic attitude. You stand up for nothing, and some things are worth standing up for. Human progress is achieved only through greater human cooperation - which is opposite of the direction he's going.

And don't ridicule my "human progress" line with some snarky World War II reference or whatever you like pulling out of your ass. It makes you look out of touch.

You obviously haven't stood up for it sufficiently if it leads to Donald Trump being elected president. That's the crisis of liberalism, the belief that if it goes wrong for you it must by definition be someone else's fault.

Another line I liked and found convincing from yesterday (and you could take this line from the left or the right) is that the increasingly corporate nature of the liberal institutions - the media, academia being two - have over-centralised these institutions into big cities and university campuses where you just don't ever meet anyone who doesn't share your general outlook on life. In America that means the big cities, over here it basically means London. 20 years ago, local press for example was so much stronger and they had 'antennae' as I saw it described which meant that something like a Trump happening wouldn't be such a huge shock as it now apparently is.

[randomlegend]

You obviously haven't stood up for it sufficiently if it leads to Donald Trump being elected president. .

That's one of the stupidest things I've ever read.

[Adamski]

That's got to be competing for most boring post in history.


That's one of the stupidest things I've ever read.

Big day for you today.

[phonics]

Hillary made him look like a gimp by your measure, and yet here we are.

Not really, Hilary is incredibly wonkish. Her policies are appealing if you can read over a 40 page white paper but 99% of people aren't going to do that. So her economic and social policy doesn't get covered. The only time anyone would cover her speeches is if she called Donald Trump an arsehole, outside of that it was wall-to-wall Trump rallies. Bernie would be attacking it with less substance but more emotion.

This sums it up well:

796343067783659524

She lost SIX MILLION (well slightly less as California hasn't been counted, lets say four to be generous) votes. Trump lost a few hundred thousand Republican votes. Even 1/6th of that wins the 4 states necessary.

[mugbull]

You obviously haven't stood up for it sufficiently if it leads to Donald Trump being elected president. That's the crisis of liberalism, the belief that if it goes wrong for you it must by definition be someone else's fault.

Another line I liked and found convincing from yesterday (and you could take this line from the left or the right) is that the increasingly corporate nature of the liberal institutions - the media, academia being two - have over-centralised these institutions into big cities and university campuses where you just don't ever meet anyone who doesn't share your general outlook on life. In America that means the big cities, over here it basically means London. 20 years ago, local press for example was so much stronger and they had 'antennae' as I saw it described which meant that something like a Trump happening wouldn't be such a huge shock as it now apparently is.

The first thing you said basically amounts to "if it happened, you should let it happen". Crisis of liberalism is not a phrase i've ever heard, but if you're trying to push a society towards particular humanistic goals, there are some objective dangers to that, among them about 80% of what Trump has said. These are *objectively* dangerous, at least in the framework of a pursuit of "greater good" and global unity which, from your vantage point, may appear a joke of an ambition and therefore not worth advancing. But if thats what you believe then we have significant character differences, I think. Globalization is essentially the only thing that has, on the whole, improved worldwide standard of living.

The second thing you say is very valid, but media in general is approaching a point of implosion. I actually expect there to be a reversal soon in the standards of journalism, because at this point even the Dum Dums of society think that news is too watered down

[randomlegend]

I lead a lowly life.

[Vim]

I need a PM of this. :D


I'm gonna send them. :nodd:

[Jimmy Floyd]

The first thing you said basically amounts to "if it happened, you should let it happen". Crisis of liberalism is not a phrase i've ever heard, but if you're trying to push a society towards particular humanistic goals, there are some objective dangers to that, among them about 80% of what Trump has said. These are *objectively* dangerous, at least in the framework of a pursuit of "greater good" and global unity which, from your vantage point, may appear a joke of an ambition and therefore not worth advancing. But if thats what you believe then we have significant character differences, I think. Globalization is essentially the only thing that has, on the whole, improved worldwide standard of living.

It is true that it has improved worldwide standard of living, and indeed it is a fact for humanity and not an option, but its proceeds - economic, social, cultural - have not been distributed evenly across societies, and that is what causes this sort of discord. Not only that, but today's media means that people can see the spoils that are out of reach. If everyone enjoyed the same benefits from globalisation that well educated metropolitan people like you and I tend to enjoy, then there would be no demand for a Trump figure, raging from a golden podium upon which they could never hope to stand, taking his personalised helicopter and network of golf resorts and using them to try and redress the balance.

Personally I think the future in the West is going to be a fairly high universal living wage, with the central political/economic struggle being who pays for this. But that's just a guess.

[phonics]

Oh and a little followup from Itals post


On Wednesday, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell mostly made nice (http://www.npr.org/2016/11/09/501432647/gop-leaders-make-peace-with-trump-in-favor-of-unified-republican-government) with Trump but also shot down or expressed little enthusiasm in some of his plans. On Trump's proposal to impose term limits on Congress, McConnell said, "It will not be on the agenda in the Senate." McConnell has been a long-standing opponent of term limits, as NPR's Susan Davis reports. "I would say we have term limits now — they're called elections."

McConnell also threw some cold water on Trump's infrastructure plans, calling it not a top priority.


McConnell did say repealing Obamacare is a "pretty high item on our agenda" along with comprehensive tax reform and achieving border security "in whatever way is the most effective."

But he also declined to discuss the Senate's immigration agenda further.

and as a followup to Jim's post, what do you think happens when Champion of the people, Donald Trump doesn't work for them?

[Pepe]

As if Hillary Clinton represented 'human progress'. :D

Or liberalism for that matter.

[Disco]

Oh and a little followup from Itals post



and as a followup to Jim's post, what do you think happens when Champion of the people, Donald Trump doesn't work for them?

Seagal 2020.

[Pepe]

I haven't checked but I bet Bernie beat Clinton in all of those 'swing states,' didn't he?

[Boydy]

It is true that it has improved worldwide standard of living, and indeed it is a fact for humanity and not an option, but its proceeds - economic, social, cultural - have not been distributed evenly across societies, and that is what causes this sort of discord. Not only that, but today's media means that people can see the spoils that are out of reach. If everyone enjoyed the same benefits from globalisation that well educated metropolitan people like you and I tend to enjoy, then there would be no demand for a Trump figure, raging from a golden podium upon which they could never hope to stand, taking his personalised helicopter and network of golf resorts and using them to try and redress the balance.

Personally I think the future in the West is going to be a fairly high universal living wage, with the central political/economic struggle being who pays for this. But that's just a guess.

By 'universal living wage' do you mean universal basic income?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Yeah. My wonk credentials are poor these days.

[Lewis]

Human progress is achieved through conflict, otherwise Richard Trevithick would have just offered lifts on his horse.

[Bernanke]

I haven't checked but I bet Bernie beat Clinton in all of those 'swing states,' didn't he?

Yep, she won the nomination because of the AA vote in southern states that would go red in the GE anyway. Good job DNC.

He completely destroyed her in the rust belt.

[Bartholomert]

Lol at mokbul's globalist fantasies, funny how everything you wish to see changed benefits you at the expense of the vast majority of the country, almost like you are just as selfishly self-interested as those bitter clingers who voted for Trump, eh?

[Pepe]

https://actionsprout.io/39C3FE/initial

Lol.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Deciding things by overall popular vote is an even worse idea in America than it is here. There are so many regional variations. We should have done our referendum by parliamentary seats as well.

[Lewis]

This (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/10/brexit-trump-whitelash-politicians-must-not-pander) is an absolute beauty. Pasta up the walls, silver telly through the window...

[Boydy]

Dear liberal white people whom I often love: advertising your shock and surprise that racism, sexism, xenophobia, and bigotry are pervasive enough to hand that man the Presidency is a microaggression. Please stop.

https://medium.com/@courtneyparkerwest/on-woke-white-people-advertising-their-shock-that-racism-just-won-a-presidency-68286682047d#.rwyloy1l1

:face:

Any wonder the average Joe doesn't vote for the 'left'.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The 'left' aren't going to get back in until they utterly and ruthlessly crush these identity politics people, who are giving them a bad name.

[Shindig]

Had a heated discussion with some lass at work who is so anti-Hilary she'd be considered pro-Trump. "But... but, this paedo only got two months... and she used Foundation stuff to fund her campaign... VILE WOMAN!"

Her fella committed manslaughter. Perspective.

[Magic]

I'd absolutely cream every single member of Little Mix in to literal oblivion.

[Boydy]

https://medium.com/@courtneyparkerwest/on-woke-white-people-advertising-their-shock-that-racism-just-won-a-presidency-68286682047d#.rwyloy1l1

:face:

Any wonder the average Joe doesn't vote for the 'left'.


The 'left' aren't going to get back in until they utterly and ruthlessly crush these identity politics people, who are giving them a bad name.

I've just noticed what the author of that article says about herself:


The author is an empowered Jewish woman of color who is passionate about anti-racism, social justice, good wine, and being an opinionated introvert.

One of her other articles:
Being Black, Brown, & Jewish in 2016 (https://medium.com/@courtneyparkerwest/being-black-brown-jewish-in-2016-d6c9e2eb0434#.2f08moevx).

Because being Jewish in America is anything like being black.

It's just fucking narcissism within a culture of victimhood.

[Lewis]

https://s11.postimg.org/sp0yvcvmr/I6_G1nj2g.jpg

:happycry:

[Spikey M]

SolcialMedia has absolutely ruined 'the left'. Unless you're LGBT with a limb missing you're not welcome.

[Spoonsky]

As if Hillary Clinton represented 'human progress'. :D

Trump represents more of a chance for human progress than she does. He also represents more of a chance for genuine systematic oppression on racial terms, or for global nuclear war. It could really swing either way. This (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-immigration-idUSKBN135284?il=0) is encouraging, though.

[phonics]

Channel 4 News is interviewing Greenday about their opinion on the election because they made a song called American Idiot in 2004.

[leedsrevolution]

Channel 4 News is interviewing Greenday about their opinion on the election because they made a song called American Idiot in 2004.

I was just about to post this. It's fucking brilliant.

[leedsrevolution]

Punk rock was my education.

[mikem]

Congrats Mert and Bruh, you got your man. Ugh, crow always tastes terrible. At least I'll get a big tax cut and a giggle at my old boss and totally not a globalist Jamie Dimon as Treasury Chief. He won't even have to put his assets in a trust. It's going to be Andrew Jackson.

Our elections are not rigged. It is not the media, the FBI, or the voter's fault. It is always the candidates. She left six million votes on the table; he underperformed Romney but got the right votes in the right places. But let's not pretend all the "it's rigged" stuff wasn't preemptive whining by the right - everyone does it. It takes time to grieve. Us D's will do all the worthless counter factuals and knives will be in a thousand backs.

The bubble thing is silly because it seems to start with the idea that there is only one or two bubbles. What about the person from a midwestern exburg who has never met a black person but is nonetheless scared of intercity crime? Why is it not equally incumbent on them to go to my wife's black rural community in South Carolina because only one third of African Americans even live in cities? Society isn't two bubbles, it is a carbonated beverage.

[phonics]

Do you think, with this momentous change in the course of the country, this'll inspire you to write new music?

Like fucking GREENDAY were the height of political analysis through music. GREENDAY.

[Spikey M]

Punk rock was my education.

How is that related to Greenday?

[Spoonsky]

mikem Do you think Bernie would have won?

[leedsrevolution]

How is that related to Greenday?

It was their education mate, weren't you listening. It was tv magic.

[Raoul Duke]

How is that related to Greenday?

It's something unpredictable, but in the end it's right

[Bartholomert]

Trump projected to win the popular vote:

http://www.cnn.com/election/results/president

[Bartholomert]

Also this is everything:

http://a.abcnews.com/images/Politics/AP-Trump-Obama-Oval-jrl-161110_12x5_1600.jpg

[Shindig]

Mert, serious question:

As a man of privilege in which neither result even grazes your greasy forehead, do you troll because of this? Or are you so entrenched in that mindset that this is now who you are?

[mikem]

Spoonsky

No idea. Impossible to prove a counter factual. Hillary was clearly weak but Bernie never appealed to minority voters who make a huge part of the base. My guess is no but with about a 85% level of uncertainty. He did make people want to vote for him and nobody (even Hillary supporters like me) could tell you one of her positions. I'm the worst person to ask though because he doesn't appeal to me either. I'd vote for him but I'd never choose him.

[Spikey M]

It was their education mate, weren't you listening. It was tv magic.

I didn't watch it, but I was worried you were calling that turgid Pop Punk for a while there.

[Bartholomert]

Mert, serious question:

As a man of privilege in which neither result even grazes your greasy forehead, do you troll because of this? Or are you so entrenched in that mindset that this is now who you are?

Trump means lower taxes for me, diminished federal government overreach (per SCOTUS nominees), and should challenge currently acceptable repression of conservative views in certain social spaces in America. I think it will be good.

Also part of me is stirred by the nationalist message, I like the idea of supporting someone who will help the less unfortunate in America and unapologetically endeavor to raise our international profile.

[phonics]

and unapologetically endeavor to raise our international profile.

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CuwR9F7W8AEAujm.jpg

[Spoonsky]

I like the idea of supporting someone who will help the less unfortunate in America

...yep, adds up.

[Bartholomert]

...yep, adds up.

If you still think the Democrats genuinely care about helping poor people, you've got some growing up to do...

[Bernanke]

If you still think the Democrats genuinely care about helping poor people, you've got some growing up to do...

I think he's having issues with your choice of words.

[Shindig]

They both agree on healthcare but Trump wants to scrap Obamacare? Is that stance right?

[phonics]

A lot closer than the Republican tax cuts.

edit: @Shindig (http://www.thethirdhalf.co.uk/member.php?u=68) I highly doubt he gives a single shit about Obamacare outside of it being a talking point. Explaining to Americans all over the country that they'll either become uninsured or have to massively pay for it isn't going to go down well in anyones constituency. And the bits about the ACA that people are annoyred at are the bits Republicans forced in. It's hard to get health insurance bills passed because it's even harder to repeal them. Hence why Medicaid still exists to the eternal frustration of wealthy America. It'll posture for years.

[Pepe]

If you still think the Republicans genuinely care about helping poor people, you've got some growing up to do...

[Spoonsky]

If you still think the Democrats genuinely care about helping poor people, you've got some growing up to do...

I was just laughing at 'less unfortunate.' I don't think the Democratic establishment really does, no, and I hope (and believe) that that will be upended in time for 2020.

[Bartholomert]

I was just laughing at 'less unfortunate.' I don't think the Democratic establishment really does, no, and I hope (and believe) that that will be upended in time for 2020.

Oh woops...pretty funny typo in hindsight...

I think Bernie and Trump agree on a lot of things actually, especially with regards to government ethics, lobbying, trade and bringing back manufacturing jobs (and immigration too honestly if it wasn't for PC culture), and Bernie said he was open to working with Trump. I think the populist Left and the populist Right have a lot more in common than they do with either Establishment. We both want the same things for the middle class.

[Spoonsky]

I agree with you, which is why I hope that, regardless of what Trump does, Democrats will see that Bernie might have been onto something and that Obama-Clintonism isn't the way forward.

[Vim]

I've had facebook comments deleted in a discussion about Trump because of my not anti-Trump comments.

[phonics]

Vim is just too edgy.

[Adamski]

Did they call you Benito Vimolini?

[Raoul Duke]

Oh woops...pretty funny typo in hindsight...

I think Bernie and Trump agree on a lot of things actually, especially with regards to government ethics, lobbying, trade and bringing back manufacturing jobs (and immigration too honestly if it wasn't for PC culture), and Bernie said he was open to working with Trump. I think the populist Left and the populist Right have a lot more in common than they do with either Establishment. We both want the same things for the middle class.

I don't get why people give a shit about 'manufacturing jobs'. They're not coming back - you can't compete with China.

Similarly, we (all) need some kinda plan as to what happens when near enough the entire driving/transport industry is made redundant within the next 5-10 years. But no-one's talking about it really. There just aren't the jobs there to replace them.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Universal basic income... it's the only way out as far as I can see. Then everyone can become painting teachers so people can fill the time. Job creation.

[Raoul Duke]

Universal basic income... it's the only way out as far as I can see. Then everyone can become painting teachers so people can fill the time. Job creation.

Not sure if you're serious, but yeah, probably.

It's the end game for so much automation and optimisation. Fuck knows if it'll actually work though.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I am serious with the first bit. There will be too many humans and not enough jobs. Government will have to pay to keep everyone alive, but it won't have the income tax receipts so it'll have to get the corporations to pay, presumably in return for controlling government policy. Probably not the end of the world.

[Shindig]

Youtube's crowded enough without Johnny Nissan showing off his 'CV Tips'.

[phonics]

In that case can we have a Ron Paul 'It's Happening' gif of this photo?

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090415161458/memoryalpha/de/images/7/76/Picard_und_Earl_Grey.jpg

[Bernanke]

https://twitter.com/jmartNYT/status/796830082564231168

@jmartNYT Jonathan Martin Retweeted Christopher Hayes
Clinton folks saw this by the Mon after Comey's Fri news: they said OH & IA were likely gone. By wed saw MI slip
Chrislhayes
" the news of the investigation accelerated the shift of a largely hidden rural mass of voters toward Trump."

So we may have a Trump-presidency because of Anthony Weiners fucking computer.

[Spoonsky]

Anthony Weiner should probably just kill himself at this point.

[GS]

It doesn't really matter now - Trump won, and getting angry about it / trying to delegitimise the result doesn't get you anywhere.

[Yevrah]

This (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/10/brexit-trump-whitelash-politicians-must-not-pander) is an absolute beauty. Pasta up the walls, silver telly through the window...

'Whitelash' :sick:

Trevor Phillips (eventually) had this so right.

[Yevrah]

Who's on Question Time? I'd rather have it English centric, but should be a cracker either way.

[ItalAussie]

It doesn't really matter now - Trump won, and getting angry about it / trying to delegitimise the result doesn't get you anywhere.

Yep. The last change of leader resulted in four years of complaining about Obama's birth certificate, memes about watermelons and monkeys, and a general upswell in some really terrible sentiments. It accomplished nothing, and it poisoned an entire side of politics for an entire regime.

[ItalAussie]

https://twitter.com/jmartNYT/status/796830082564231168

@jmartNYT Jonathan Martin Retweeted Christopher Hayes
Clinton folks saw this by the Mon after Comey's Fri news: they said OH & IA were likely gone. By wed saw MI slip
Chrislhayes
" the news of the investigation accelerated the shift of a largely hidden rural mass of voters toward Trump."

So we may have a Trump-presidency because of Anthony Weiners fucking computer.

I'm skeptical about that, to be honest. Anyone who voted for Trump on that basis was looking for a reason. They'd have voted Trump on election day either way.

[Yevrah]

David Dimbleby presents topical debate from Southend-on-Sea. Panellists include Conservative Dominic Raab, Labour's Yvette Cooper, the SNP's Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh, professor of American literature at the University of London Sarah Churchwell and Jan Halper-Hayes of Republicans Overseas.

Hmmm.

[Yevrah]

The SNP twonk has called for Trump to be banned from the UK apparently. There really are no words.

[GS]

The SNP twonk has called for Trump to be banned from the UK apparently. There really are no words.

There's a rather unpleasant attitude from some, regrettably from the left (usually), to simply ban and / or no platform anybody / anything they find vaguely disagreeable. Free speech is a privilege extended only to those with whom they agree, or with whom they disagree to what they consider a tolerable level.

[Kikó]

I am serious with the first bit. There will be too many humans and not enough jobs. Government will have to pay to keep everyone alive, but it won't have the income tax receipts so it'll have to get the corporations to pay, presumably in return for controlling government policy. Probably not the end of the world.

Just fuck money off and promote human endeavour/we all plug into virtual reality worlds as power for the robots.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The SNP twonk has called for Trump to be banned from the UK apparently. There really are no words.

I take it they also want to sack all the people employed by him in Scotland?

[Lewis]

Nicola Sturgeon was at her self-important best reacting to President Trump. Love, he doesn't care.

[John]

The SNP are still absolutely furious that he once built a golf course on land they could have given to unicorns.

[GS]

Nicola Sturgeon was at her self-important best reacting to President Trump. Love, he doesn't care.

Krankie is still desperately trying to secure a position of international relevance. She stripped him of his business ambassador role last year as well which, given Trump's disposition, almost certainly leaves her an enemy for life. Still, it let her virtue signal so perhaps that's all that matters.

[Henry]

I'm skeptical about that, to be honest. Anyone who voted for Trump on that basis was looking for a reason. They'd have voted Trump on election day either way.

Well, we know the polls were wrong, but they were within the margin of error by election day, Clinton having had a substantial lead two weeks earlier. You can't ignore the data entirely. If it had been two weeks ago she would have won and it was the email shit that changed things.

Besides, it wasn't so much that Trump got the vote out (he recieved fewer than McCain or Romney), but that she didn't.

It really was disgraceful that Comey announced what he did when he did, especially when there was nothing to it. He deserves a kick in the balls.

[GS]

Well, we know the polls were wrong, but they were within the margin of error by election day, Clinton having had a substantial lead two weeks earlier. You can't ignore the data entirely. If it had been two weeks ago she would have won and it was the email shit that changed things.

Besides, it wasn't so much that Trump got the vote out (he recieved fewer than McCain or Romney), but that she didn't.

It really was disgraceful that Comey announced what he did when he did, especially when there was nothing to it. He deserves a kick in the balls.

She was a compromised candidate - deeply disliked, highly distrusted. I suspect that anybody who 'changed their mind' to Clinton owing to the late Comey disclosure was almost certainly going to change their mind anyway. If anything, it just confirmed suspicions that many had and which were surely long established irrespective.

[Lewis]

I don't follow polling, because it's the most boring thing in the world (at least until after the event when it ruins the NARRATIVE), but is the margin of error still plus/minus about three points? That might have been alright in 1974, or when you need to find out whether your plans to kick foreigners about have an eighty or eighty-three per cent approval rating; but when your built in, accounted for weaknesses have us still in Europe and 'Hillary' in the White House (and thus the ongoing story of Human Progress taking a different direction), what is the fucking point? It's like running somebody over on a zebra crossing.

On the other hand, I've seen loads of Jeremy Corbyn supporters using this latest polling farce as further proof that their man can win, so lol.

[Bernanke]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-edm_lzXd_iE/WCTqQ1v_xaI/AAAAAAAABm8/ArRoxAV_Y740qzpmVfhVLeNeMyxRH__OACL0B/h660/2016-11-10.png

Spoon forced Utah left.

[ItalAussie]

I wonder if it wouldn't make sense for the Democrats to target Arizona and Texas in the medium term. Especially if the Republicans solidify the midwest.

[Yevrah]

Chocolate for Christmas shit from this SNP shambles.

[Bartholomert]

Well, we know the polls were wrong, but they were within the margin of error by election day, Clinton having had a substantial lead two weeks earlier. You can't ignore the data entirely. If it had been two weeks ago she would have won and it was the email shit that changed things.

Besides, it wasn't so much that Trump got the vote out (he recieved fewer than McCain or Romney), but that she didn't.

It really was disgraceful that Comey announced what he did when he did, especially when there was nothing to it. He deserves a kick in the balls.

The polls were tightening before Comey, and in fact the polls were roughly where they were (if not a little better for Hillary) the day before the election than the day before the email announcement, it was always going to be close.

Also for the record if anybody was actually following my posts on here for the last year, I always maintained that if you read into the sampling of the polls showing Clinton ahead in these swing states, you would see that they were skewed and Trump was actually doing far better than might have been suggested by the topline numbers. There were "Republican-leaning" polls which showed all of this beforehand, except nobody wanted to believe the reality in front of them. This wasn't a failure of polling as a science, this was a failure of partisanship among the mainstream media / establishment.

[Bartholomert]

I wonder if it wouldn't make sense for the Democrats to target Arizona and Texas in the medium term. Especially if the Republicans solidify the midwest.

Unless voting trends shift, Texas, Georgia, Florida, and Arizona will be solid blue within 3-4 election cycles (if not sooner).

[GS]

I wonder if it wouldn't make sense for the Democrats to target Arizona and Texas in the medium term. Especially if the Republicans solidify the midwest.

There was a sensible argument on CNN that the demographic shifts evident in this race may see the Democrats lose the rustbelt henceforward. Their issue is that they've done so an electoral cycle or two before they can compensate for it with wins in the sunbelt arising through demographic change. It's hard to see how the "blue wall" holds now, meaning they may need to look elsewhere on the map.

[ItalAussie]

Unless voting trends shift, Texas, Georgia, Florida, and Arizona will be solid blue within 3-4 election cycles (if not sooner).

Florida will be a swing state forever, you'd have to think. Lots of the Latin population there are Cuban, and they lead red.

Texas shifting would explode the map though. If the Democrats could rely on getting the three biggest states in terms of the electoral college, it could lead to some very serious divisions down the line. And probably a rethink of electoral college rules, driven by the mid-size states.

I know this sounds fatalistic, but I could see voter suppression really gaining steam in Arizona and Texas, in an attempt to delay that shift. There's no doubt that Republicans see it as a sneakily viable tactic, and without Supreme Court oversight, it could pick up some serious momentum.

[Bernanke]

Florida will be a swing state forever, you'd have to think. Lots of the Latin population there are Cuban, and they lead red.

I thought that wasn't the case for second generation Cubans?

It'll be under water soon anyway though, but I think that's mainly the blue parts of the states to begin with.

[mikem]

I wonder if it wouldn't make sense for the Democrats to target Arizona and Texas in the medium term. Especially if the Republicans solidify the midwest.

I live in AZ and it is too early. It turned out largely how I thought. A couple cycles and it may be different. Nobody is from here but it splits pretty evenly from people who were more conservative than the California they left or are fairly mainstream Midwest which can go either way.

[ItalAussie]

Democratic voters in New York and California should move to Pennsylvania and Arizona respectively. You want to win? Spread yourselves out a bit. Take one for the team. :D

It'd take like twenty people to get a majority in Wyoming, right? Easy.

[ItalAussie]

Also, apparently Alaska wound up being slightly closer than anyone expected, given national trends. Maybe the Dems could take a run at that. I'm not even sure what issues are important to Alaskans. Moose pelt futures? A wall on the Canadian border?

[Lewis]

Spoon forced Utah left.

Yeah... Left in tears! :lol:

[Lewis]

That isn't as funny written down.

[ItalAussie]

Also, let's invest in getting New Hampshire some money to improve their vote-counting system, which I have to assume is one old dude sitting in a backroom somewhere who restarts every time he loses count.

EDIT: It's still comedy gold, Lewis. Don't worry.

[Boydy]

I love a Lewis zinger as much as the next man (that cutting down of Magic earlier today about engines was fantastic) but that was weak.

Also, has Magic posted since that?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Before this week I thought a 'rustbelt' was something Hillary wears in bed.

[Pepe]

I don't follow polling, because it's the most boring thing in the world.

:cool:

[Lewis]

On that subject, this (https://twitter.com/DonovanPaisley/status/796749246695358464) is the funniest thing I've seen posted about it all.

[John]

That whole account is great. The replies to this (https://twitter.com/GodfreyElfwick/status/796314412189646848) are good fun.

[Lewis]

Godfrey Elfwick is the best thing on Twitter. Not least because people still fall for it.

[Boydy]

You'd think multimillionaire Tom Antion would have better things to do with his time.

[John]

You'd think multimillionaire Tom Antion would have better things to do with his time.

And that valedictorian Tom Antion would know 'A**Hole' in the middle of a sentence is wrong in about a thousand different ways.

[elth]

The trouble is that even a universal basic income won't help the rural communities devastated by existential loss of identity. Sure, they won't be starving, but relying on government is just as much a threat to their self worth as seeing their kids leave for the coast and cities because there's no future in Abandoned, Iowa.

The future is coming but we don't have solutions for societal disruption yet.

[Spoonsky]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donna-brazile-democratic-national-committee_us_5824cb95e4b0ddd4fe7954e8


“You are part of the problem,” he continued, blaming Brazile for clearing the path for Trump’s victory by siding with Clinton early on. “You and your friends will die of old age and I’m going to die from climate change. You and your friends let this happen, which is going to cut 40 years off my life expectancy.”

[Bartholomert]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donna-brazile-democratic-national-committee_us_5824cb95e4b0ddd4fe7954e8

Lol. The Democrat establishment literally fucked it's base and didn't give a single shit about their concerns, and the worse part, at least WE had #NeverTrump dissenters, you all simply got in line and marginalized any dissent as betrayal. Unbelievable really.

[Spoonsky]

Lol. The Democrat establishment literally fucked it's base and didn't give a single shit about their concerns, and the worse part, at least WE had #NeverTrump dissenters, you all simply got in line and marginalized any dissent as betrayal. Unbelievable really.

I don't know. Hillary won the primary fair and square (well, yeah, it was pretty fucked up; but she got more votes than Bernie did); as easy as it is just to blame the establishment, the majority of Democratic voters chose her. After that, well, the specific danger of Trump (it would've been much different if you'd nominated Kasich or somebody) seemed far greater than any difference between her and Bernie. We'll see if we were right about that.

The fault of the Democratic establishment, strategists, and her campaign is that they never answered the question, Why did we struggle so much against Bernie? If they had figured that out, and tried to fix it, maybe they'd have won, but instead they disregarded him as a weird aberration and assumed the whites would fall into line when presented with Trump the boogeyman.

[elth]

Because of the way Senate seats are allocated, it's looking increasingly likely that the Democrats have permanently lost control of the Senate, too. Only 16 states have Democratic governors - if the majority of states keep rejecting Democrats, they actually have more chance of getting control of the House than the Senate.

[Shindig]

Imagine the bridges Trump's burned within his own party. That chat with Obama sounded like the frostiest thing ever and you can definitely see large numbers of his own lot cold shouldering him for the next four years. British response has been daft, too. Ed going on about fearing for the black, hispanic, gay and trans Americans whilst IDS is like, "Hey ... OPPORTUNITY!"

So much of the next four years is going to be nursing and cockblocking an oaf through his term. America's on hold, y'all.

[Magic]

I love a Lewis zinger as much as the next man (that cutting down of Magic earlier today about engines was fantastic) but that was weak.

Also, has Magic posted since that?

I'm rethinking my entire posting policy.

[phonics]

Less than 48 hours and a couple hundred people and they're already under his skin. He is a giant walking, talking, baby.

796900183955095552

[Spammer]

It's just fucking narcissism within a culture of victimhood.

That's the best summary of it I've come across. Nailed it.

[Queenslander]

Less than 48 hours and a couple hundred people and we're already under his skin. He is a giant walking, talking, baby.

796900183955095552

We're?

[John]

Phonics is a citizen of the world, and Twitter recognises no borders.

[Queenslander]

Bloke needs to go for a run.

[phonics]

Lol weird typo. Was talking to somebody in the office at the same time.

[Yeldoow]

Less than 48 hours and a couple hundred people and they're already under his skin. He is a giant walking, talking, baby.

796900183955095552

https://vice-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Cu1QKW-WYAEPTeD.jpg

:groove:

[Bernanke]

Is it actually confirmed he lost the popular vote though? I thought he was gaining when they started counting the last ones.

[SvN]

According to the Googles, the current count is 60,274,974 versus 59,937,338 in favour of Hilary.

[SvN]

And finding that brought me to this article. Let out a hearty lol at the headline.

http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2016/11/popular_vote_totals_for_presid.html

oh, and of course, there's a petition: https://www.change.org/p/electoral-college-electors-electoral-college-make-hillary-clinton-president-on-december-19

[wullie]

Miley Cyrus was crying her eyes out, Katy Perry wants to start a revolution. When Cameron got in, we didn't hear much of that from Jamelia or Rachel Stevens.

[Queenslander]

Chelsea Handler was hilarious. Get a fucking grip you rich wanker.

[Boydy]

This is very good:

If the left can woo back white voters, it would benefit everyone

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/11/left-woo-white-voters?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

[Spammer]

If they want to get back white voters then, as I think Jimmy said, they need to tone it down with the 'white people are systematically evil' shite. Of course there's prejudice and issues in the world but only the most self-hating, anxious shithead is going to get onboard being told that.

[Boydy]

796771011786108928
:D

Ha.

[Byron]

Love the fact that the small groups of protesters last night have passion for our great country. We will all come together and be proud! 55m ago

Someone's taken his Twitter account off him again.

[phonics]

Byron, for future reference you can just take the number at the end of the tweet and post it between [tweet] tags. I really should build a button for the fucker but I can't be arsed.

[Lewis]

This is very good:

If the left can woo back white voters, it would benefit everyone

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/11/left-woo-white-voters?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

The left should be a class-based movement. I suppose radical times call for radical ideas.

[Lewis]

796504692612329472

:lol:

[Jimmy Floyd]

In The Donald's America, you'll only be able to buy post-its in RED, WHITE AND BLUE, SIR

[phonics]

Think the most frustrating piece of all this might be all these Democrats who were totally fine with the NSA spying on the populace and droning the fuck out of everyone up until the moment Trump won, at which point it becomes an issue of civil liberties. These people are such arseholes.