These Sex Attacks in Germany

[Yevrah]

Seriously, what the fuck is all that about?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35248601


Police in Germany will have to rethink their tactics following attacks on women in the city of Cologne on New Year's Eve, a senior official has said.
Ralf Jaeger, interior minister for North Rhine-Westphalia, said police had to "adjust" to the fact that groups of men had attacked women en masse.

And this sort of stuff really needs to stop:


Mr Jaeger also warned that anti-immigrant groups were trying to use the attacks to stir up hatred against refugees.
"What happens on the right-wing platforms and in chat rooms is at least as awful as the acts of those assaulting the women," he said. "This is poisoning the climate of our society."

Yes, because being raped really is better than idiots talking to other idiots in right wing chatrooms.

If there's a racial element to this (and I've no idea whether that's the case or not given how under reported the whole thing has been so far), then there's a racial element.

We don't have any Germans here, do we?

[Lewis]

You wonder whether these people have to convince themselves when they use these sort of things to have a pop at the 'far-right', or whether they genuinely can't face up to Muslims doing any wrong. I remember Andy Burnham writing an absolute classic of the genre a while back (I can't find it) where he railed against skinheads and Henry Ford for causing the rise in anti-semitism.

[Yevrah]

It's difficult to argue with that when you see there's only been three people identified so far and no arrests, for something that happened a week ago. What have the authorities been doing? Shitting themselves seems to be the obvious answer.

[Lewis]

It wasn't Andy Burnham (soz Andy la), it was now ex-politician Douglas Alexander (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/11365257/Anti-Semitism-the-old-disease-has-found-new-hosts.html). How do you even bring yourself to write that?

[Yevrah]

Oh the response gets better.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-35243482

[Pepe]

They probably deserved it the filthy whores.

[Jimmy Floyd]

You have to remember this is Germany and they have a bit of history when it comes to far right and labelling ethnic groups - this is why they are letting in a million refugees and Britain 10,000 or whatever - so I imagine most politicians there will be very comfortable throwing unlimited numbers of violated women under a bus as long as they can keep the rainbow shining.

[Manc]

Gegenpressing I believe it's called.

[Boydy]

According to the BBC it happened in Hamburg too, using 'similar tactics'.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The details are sketchy as hell. Is it a case of a thousand men rushing women in a pre-meditated groping orgy on the basis that 'they can't arrest all of us'?

In fact it, and the reporting on it / reaction from the authorities is about as murky a thing as I can recall.

[Boydy]

It seems to be that. I don't know. How do they even manage to organise that? There were loads of thefts as well, apparently.

[SvN]

Doubt it was organised. It's presumably a bunch of dickheads in once place being drunk and realising they can get away with copping a feel of women as they walk past.

[randomlegend]

I read that at least one of the incidents fulfilled the legal definition of rape, so seems some were going a bit further than just copping a feel.

[SvN]

Yep without a doubt. There were over 100 cases reported though, so most of them were presumably sexual assault rather than full blown rape.

[Sam]

Sounds like a typical Saturday night. Bunch of drunks trying to cop a feel of a woman mainly (apart from the accused rape)? Some organised crime that is.

[SvN]

I've seen multiple videos online of similar occurrences in the US during "protests" after a black individual gets killed by police. Not on this scale, mind - but this isn't a new thing. It's repulsive idiots thinking (quite rightly, it seems) that they can do what they want and get away with it.

[Lewis]

This (http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/we-should-look-to-the-gender-of-the-cologne-attackers-not-their-race-a6801281.html) is a good point. It could have been any of us in that group doing the mass grope that has never happened before until all these Muslims rolled up, so let's not judge and slag them off.

[Magic]

Fucking hell someone on LL commented the police chief would resign after blaming this on refugees and open doors. The replacement would blame right wing media and absolve the criminals of responsibility.

[Bernanke]

This (http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/we-should-look-to-the-gender-of-the-cologne-attackers-not-their-race-a6801281.html) is a good point. It could have been any of us in that group doing the mass grope that has never happened before until all these Muslims rolled up, so let's not judge and slag them off.

Edward Siddons
@edwardsiddons
Writer, editor, translator. Published by @Dazed, @WallpaperMag, @IndyVoices. I write on queer culture, epidemics, trauma, and mourning. Renaissance twink.

:rolleyes:

[Lewis]

This (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/09/the-left-must-admit-the-truth-about-the-assaults-on-women-in-cologne?CMP=twt_gummy) is a good one. 'The left must admit the truth about the assaults on women in Cologne', sez Deborah Orr. Hmm. Right-on, love.


Fifth, how could anyone possibly imagine that among a million people from anywhere there wouldn’t be some proportion of nasty, sleazy misogynists? A British legal history that includes the withholding of all manner of basic rights from women suggests that there’s nothing racially or religiously inherent in chauvinism. People tend to believe what they’re taught to believe, and the unreliable evidence of what they see around them, until free thinkers and visionary leaders call them out on it.

Sixth, it is beyond doubt that there are people living in Europe now who have been brought up in a culture where a woman would be publicly and viciously punished for allowing herself to be the victim of a sexual assault. It is utterly unrealistic to expect all those brought up in fundamentalist religious cultures – conservative Islam being the largest, but by no means the only such culture – to be able suddenly and completely to ditch all aspects of the pervasive environment they were brought up in.

How could anyone have possibly imagined? Who proof-reads these things?

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

The Independent runs the Guardian close nowadays for real twaddle.

[Shindig]

I dunno, the Guardian ran that story about the DWP sending out a "Not ill enough" letter to a woman who was having her life support pulled. Pavel slapped that in his facebook feed going, "SEE!? THE SYSTEM FAILS!!" Extra daft considering the claimants are like, "Well, I know we lacked evidence but our GP is like... hard to get a hold of erm... "

[Bartholomert]

This happened in my city.

Fucking lol at suicidal delusional European liberals, they deserve all this and more.

Also can provide details as my sisters friends and were near the Dom when it happened.

[QE Harold Flair]

Fucking hell, 22 posts on one of the most despicable mass crimes in recent history. This is basically soft bigotry. 'Well it's to be expected from them, they know no better'.....

I like the phrase used by the excellent Mark Steyn - 'Islam has nothing to do with Islam'. I'm keeping that.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkaeP9Y_sec

[Lee]

There's not really much to say other than it's a disgusting thing to have happened, is there?

It's obviously shit but it's not an exciting 'event' like a terrorist attack so it isn't going attract too much comment.

That it (wrongly) wasn't publicised until well after it happened will be a factor too.

[QE Harold Flair]

Sounds like a typical Saturday night. Bunch of drunks trying to cop a feel of a woman mainly (apart from the accused rape)? Some organised crime that is.

Ah, there we go :D

a Thousand sexual assaults on one night in one place. Typical Saturday night, mate.

[Davgooner]

It's going to take a fair while for the full facts to come out in terms of who was involved etc. If there are refugees amongst them then I don't think anyone would have any issues with deporting them once they've served time. We probably need to have a proper look at how we educate those coming into Europe and assimilate them into our culture; I think Sweden has been rolling out an education process for the migrants it's taking in.

Lots of reports of randoms being twatted by right-wing groups in Germany over the last couple of weeks unfortunately.

[QE Harold Flair]

'If'? :D

I wouldn't believe everything you hear about 'right wing groups'. The media routinely lie about violence during their demonstrations.

Sweden is now the rape capital of Europe. I wonder why. I mean you could 'educate' these men that raping women isn't nice. I don't fancy your chances. There is an easier solution....

[Davgooner]

The numbers are a shambles at the minute. The police also seem to have fucked up on a huge scale.

[QE Harold Flair]

More than 1,700 police, under orders from the German government, turned out to halt a 3,000-strong PEGIDA demonstration in Cologne city center today—a marked contrast to the paltry 150 officers who were sent to the same venue to counter the nonwhite refugee-criminal attacks on New Year’s Eve.

....

[Disco]

Because the circumstances there are comparable.

[QE Harold Flair]

They're not. One was a peaceful demonstration, the other a mass sex attack. You're quite right.

[Sam]

They're not. One was a peaceful demonstration, the other a mass sex attack. You're quite right.

So your statement above is totally pointless :D?

I mean even logically, it doesn't make any sense. One is arguably a planned rally, the other a spontaneous event?

[QE Harold Flair]

No, it's completely to the point. 1600 police for a demonstration by 3000 protestors, or 150 police for 1000 sex attackers? The latter is how many responded to said event. Priorities, you see.

[Sam]

No, it's completely to the point. 1600 police for a demonstration by 3000 protestors, or 150 police for 1000 sex attackers? The latter is how many responded to said event. Priorities, you see.
One is a planned event which was probably posted on Pegida website as well as various social media, plus rallies require some form of permissions, especially as it is at a capital building as noted. That and there have been a string of attacks by supporters of Pegida on immigrants since the sex attack incident so police presence is obviously going to be much higher as they wish to avoid any further incidents.

The sex attacks weren't predicted, no one knew they were going to happen apart from those who were going to perform the crime. That and circumstantially that it was New Years Eve in a city well known for it's lucrative and carnival-esque celebrations during that particular period in the year.

So yes, it is a totally invalid point.

[QE Harold Flair]

Yes, I'm well aware it was a planned event. Do you really think we need one police person for every 2 protestors?

You've also ignored that the 150 were also those who responded to the incidents, not who was just there.

[Disco]

Yes, I'm well aware it was a planned event. Do you really think we need one police person for every 2 protestors?

You've also ignored that the 150 were also those who responded to the incidents, not who was just there.

Here we see Harold subtly change his stance so he can refer back to this post and claim a different emphasis to his initial point. Not different enough for most rational people but enough for him to slide around and evade long enough for everyone to get bored and forget how specious he was being.

[QE Harold Flair]

I'm still sticking by my original point - 150 were available (either there already or as responders) for 1000 sex crimes, whilst there was over 2 police people available for every protester who might commit a crime.

[Disco]

Those events are not comparable, your point is specious.

[Sam]

Two different timeline. One a celebration the other a planned rally after significant tensions.

They're apples and oranges.

[QE Harold Flair]

Are you two 'refugees welcome' types, by any chance? Just wondering.

[Disco]

I'm not sure how that would affect german police deployment policies.

[QE Harold Flair]

No, I think it would explain the bizarre stance taken here, though. It's what you often get from the left - massive overreaction to miniscule things like 'manspreading' or rape culture on campus (a proven lie), and when actual repression and actual rape culture is exposed you barely hear a squeek. I get the impressiom, so I do, that you might have had a bit of a feminist backlash if there were 1000 white men sexually assaulting women on one night. We've heard virtually nothing.

[Disco]

Does it also explain your second attempt at deflecting attention away from your original specious comparison?

Admit it was specious and I'll tell you what I think of mass migration.

[QE Harold Flair]

I haven't deflected attention. I reiterated what I said the last time you brought it up a few posts ago.

I don't care much what you think of mass migration.

[Disco]

Have so. What started as a comparison of two very different policing situations has now been moved towards a position that's far easier to defend (with an uncredited edit I might add). Of course misrepresentation of rape/sexual assault is unpleasant and air time / column inches are not equally divided between comparable issues. But that isn't where we started. We started with your specious comparison of two different events.

[QE Harold Flair]

It's still a comparison and I still haven't deviated from that. I don't mind if you disagree with what I say, just don't make things up.

[Disco]

Deflection three, am I supposed to ask you what I've been making up?

You can compare reaction to rape/sexual assault all you like (there's a point to be made about how facile most media coverage of literally everything ever is) but you specifically used the example of police response in your first post. You cannot compare a rapid reaction to an unpredicted event on one of the busiest nights of the year to the pre-planned policing of an arranged event. Those two things are not comparable and you therefore cannot use the difference in police numbers to infer a bias that conforms to your worldview, honest critical thinking does not work that way.

[Sam]

Harold in moving the goalposts shocker.

As disco stated, my view of refugees doesn't dictate German policing policy.

[QE Harold Flair]

Deflection three, am I supposed to ask you what I've been making up?

You can compare reaction to rape/sexual assault all you like (there's a point to be made about how facile most media coverage of literally everything ever is) but you specifically used the example of police response in your first post. You cannot compare a rapid reaction to an unpredicted event on one of the busiest nights of the year to the pre-planned policing of an arranged event. Those two things are not comparable and you therefore cannot use the difference in police numbers to infer a bias that conforms to your worldview, honest critical thinking does not work that way.

I will say it a third time, then. I stand by what I said originally. I don't care that they were different events, it makes no difference. Clear?

[QE Harold Flair]

Harold in moving the goalposts shocker.

As disco stated, my view of refugees doesn't dictate German policing policy.

And I get accused of speciousness.....

[Disco]

I will say it a third time, then. I stand by what I said originally. I don't care that they were different events, it makes no difference. Clear?

And it only took an entire page.

I think anyone without an agenda would disagree that it doesn't make a difference, as do I. If I were a masochist I'd start down the road of how your willingness to misrepresent situations reflects on the rest of your argument (which is a shame as you did move onto an aspect that had legs).

[QE Harold Flair]

No, it didn't. This is my first response to when you brought it up:


I'm still sticking by my original point - 150 were available (either there already or as responders) for 1000 sex crimes, whilst there was over 2 police people available for every protester who might commit a crime.

As for my agenda - I really don't need to point to anything but the facts, which speak for themselves.

[GS]

It's going to take a fair while for the full facts to come out in terms of who was involved etc. If there are refugees amongst them then I don't think anyone would have any issues with deporting them once they've served time. We probably need to have a proper look at how we educate those coming into Europe and assimilate them into our culture; I think Sweden has been rolling out an education process for the migrants it's taking in.

Lots of reports of randoms being twatted by right-wing groups in Germany over the last couple of weeks unfortunately.

You can't deport them, as their lives would be in danger if they were returned to Syria.

[Shindig]

Germans know a thing or two about imprisonment, GS. No worries.

[Yevrah]

You can't deport them, as their lives would be in danger if they were returned to Syria.

:D Check mate, I think.

[GS]

Not only that, they'll get German passports and will then be free to travel to the UK without so much as a second look at the border.

[QE Harold Flair]

As usual, Farage was bang on years ago.

[Davgooner]

You can't deport them, as their lives would be in danger if they were returned to Syria.

Tough shit. Launch the noncey ones back across the Mediterranean.

[GS]

I'm all for it, but alas it would be illegal.

[Yevrah]

I wonder if those who offered to put a refugee (at random) up in their spare room still feel the same?

[Lewis]

It's a right laugh (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/09/my-syrian-refugee-lodger-helen-pidd) apparently (provided you get an educated family man).

[Magic]

I realise there was a large group of cunts but there are genuine refugees in desperate need. To violate that with this behaviour, to cause disdain towards your fellow countrymen/women/children should be met with deportation.

[Yevrah]

I realise there was a large group of cunts but there are genuine refugees in desperate need. To violate that with this behaviour, to cause disdain towards your fellow countrymen/women/children should be met with deportation.

The whole thing is a complete clusterfuck.

Obviously we should be taking refugees, far more than we've committed to, but the idea that you let one and all in without conducting adequate checks was, and remains, absolute lunacy.

[GS]

I realise there was a large group of cunts but there are genuine refugees in desperate need. To violate that with this behaviour, to cause disdain towards your fellow countrymen/women/children should be met with deportation.

Again, you literally can't deport them.

[Davgooner]

No surrender to the IRA.

[Yevrah]

Again, you literally can't deport them.

You might have to put that in your signature to get the message across GS.

[Magic]

Again, you literally can't deport them.

Why?

Also I'm sure it's a myth that there were no checks.

[GS]

The whole thing is a complete clusterfuck.

Obviously we should be taking refugees, far more than we've committed to, but the idea that you let one and all in without conducting adequate checks was, and remains, absolute lunacy.

I don't think it's unfair to suggest that Merkel's Chancellorship is on the line given her mismanagement of this.

[Davgooner]

She did the only thing she could really. Given the numbers that were on their doorstep all the talk of 'checks' is fucking madness.

[GS]

Why?

Also I'm sure it's a myth that there were no checks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-refoulement

Syria is a warzone and a barely functioning state. They're in Europe, we can't deport them and there's nothing you can do. Most of them, if they've any sense, will have burnt their passports from any other countries and will claim Syrian citizenship, guaranteeing them the right to stay in Europe. They'll then get European citizenship and the right to move throughout Europe on their new passport.

[Davgooner]

GS coming full circle on this is top notch.

[GS]

She did the only thing she could really. Given the numbers that were on their doorstep all the talk of 'checks' is fucking madness.

She unilaterally suspended the Dublin regulation and allowed tens of thousands of people to trudge through eastern and southern Europe. It was ill-conceived, ill-thought out and the consequences are clear. Municipal authorities in Germany, particularly Bavaria, have been formally protesting that they are simply unable to cope.

[GS]

GS coming full circle on this is top notch.

Well, the reasons why I would have advocated caution at the time have borne out, unfortunately. Public opinion in Germany is turning, and Merkel's party posted a record low of 33% in a recent poll. She's under significant pressure within her own party and coalition, and this is backed by said public opinion.

You end up with a cultural melting pot of tension and suspicion, and that will lead to major problems in a generation's time. The French examples are pertinent here.

[Magic]

A comment on Liveleak said lol at the Germans for cleansing themselves of doctors/teachers/scientists etc and replacing them with uneducated baboons. :D

I wonder if that's how history will see it in 100 years.

[Lewis]

The Germans must have a few contingency plans tucked away somewhere. The Madagascar Plan has got to be worth another look at least.

[Yevrah]

She did the only thing she could really. Given the numbers that were on their doorstep all the talk of 'checks' is fucking madness.

Well either you have borders or you don't and if you do, you can't just let masses of people in on a tidal wave of public scouse-style faux grief.

[GS]

Well either you have borders or you don't and if you do, you can't just let masses of people in on a tidal wave of public scouse-style grief.

The issue is with Schengen. The borders of Germany effectively extend to the Greek islands, for fuck sake. Merkel created the problem for herself by suspending Dublin.

[Magic]

It was that little boy that drowned fault. The little cunt. We hated Syrians until then. Bish's 'economic migrant' line fell apart after that.

[GS]

It was that little boy that drowned fault. The little cunt. We hated Syrians until then. Bish's 'economic migrant' line fell apart after that.

Not to repeat old arguments, but many of the migrants / refugees are coming from Turkey. That's a safe country. Syria to Turkey, they're refugees. Turkey to Europe they're economic migrants.

The whole sorry episode has demonstrated the spinelessness of EU leaders. The relocation plan has went well, given less than 300 (!) have been relocated. The eastern European countries have kicked off massively, and the European Commission and Jean-Claude Juncker literally can't do a thing of consequence about it. They're just a bankrupt organisation who give more of a shit about Schengen and the "European Project" than anything else, including Syria.

Vote Leave, lads.

[Yevrah]

It was that little boy that drowned fault. The little cunt. We hated Syrians until then. Bish's 'economic migrant' line fell apart after that.

In the same way there are clearly members of the right that would love to jump on these events, the pictures of that poor little bastard was all 'the left' needed to accuse everyone who wasn't up for letting all and sundry in of being uncaring scum.

[Yevrah]

Vote Leave, lads.

People are going to (at least in the first vote), mark my words.

The apparent disconnect that's supposedly evident in the polls between immigration (being very much an issue) and Europe (not that much of an issue) is a red herring.

[GS]

Incidentally, recent polling:

"David Cameron should stop accepting refugees coming into the UK from Syria":
Agree: 61%
Disagree: 23%
(via ComRes)

There's a spike of moral consciousness, and then everybody stops caring.

[QE Harold Flair]

The whole thing is a complete clusterfuck.

Obviously we should be taking refugees, far more than we've committed to, but the idea that you let one and all in without conducting adequate checks was, and remains, absolute lunacy.

The way they currently arrive, no we should not be taking more. We should only take those who use the appropriate channels and who can be vetted. That's why I agree with the government for once in that putting money and resources at source, in Syria, is a far better idea than encouraging more and more people to make fraught journeys. Because it doesn't stop at Syria - the whole region will be, and is, making that same journey.

[QE Harold Flair]

It was that little boy that drowned fault. The little cunt. We hated Syrians until then. Bish's 'economic migrant' line fell apart after that.

Only to those unable to think clearly or logically and see through their misty cloud of (often faux) emotional grief. I still stood fast and, it must be said, have been proven 100% correct yet again.

As yev alluded to, it was then a race to see who could be the most emotional, with lots of promises of refugees being able to stay with high level politicians. All nonsense, of course.

[Davgooner]

in on a tidal wave of public scouse-style faux grief.

That's a really strange spin to put on it.

[Davgooner]

There's a spike of moral consciousness, and then everybody stops caring.

The right-wing press are sadly pretty good at what they do.

[QE Harold Flair]

Yea it's all the right wing press, this. Those scoundrels got us again!

[Davgooner]

Bastards!

[QE Harold Flair]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f4f_1453549734

Refugees welcome.

[John Arne]

What makes you think that they are refugees? If they are, they have picked up the lingo pretty sharpish.

[Spoonsky]

They didn't even look ethnic tbh.

[Shindig]

And only one of them confirmed he's a muslim. They could just be by-the-numbers sexists.

[Angelsaint]

This topic is a total shame. Not Harold because he never changed but the rest because of an incident suddenly got their torches and spikes and started a lynching mob.

SHAME ON YOU!

Fucking hell, to think I was banned by this mob because I was racist according to them.
Disgusting people.

[Magic]

What makes you think that they are refugees? If they are, they have picked up the lingo pretty sharpish.

Exactly. Most of these 'REFUGEE RAPE HARRASSMENT ETC' videos often have the perps speaking fluent Swedish/German etc. Pretty impressive for such uneducated, third world baboons.

It's no surprise this is bringing out the worst in native Muslims though.

[Angelsaint]

What videos?

[Magic]

On Liveleak.

[Angelsaint]

There are trillions videos on live leak

[Angelsaint]

Just saw Harold video and besides the obvious fact she is hot, the rest is what most women would think about her when passing by.

[Shindig]

You're also seeing edited footage so there's nothing to say she got some beef from people of all shapes and sizes.

[Giggles]

Where is everyone when all this happens anyway? These fuckers should be left in a smouldering pile in the town square after such an attempt.

[Angelsaint]

Can you explain " all this happens "?

[Giggles]

Can you explain " all this happens "?

Robbing, grabbing, raping etc in large packs.

[Angelsaint]

The raping part is clearly a exaggeration. It was 1 complain that was quickly dismissed by the police.
The rest happens every summer in every tourist location. I recall that only few were actually accused/ arrested.

[John Arne]

The rest happens every summer in every tourist location. I recall that only few were actually accused/ arrested.

Where the hell do you go on holiday?

There were 53 cases of harassment, 39 of which were sexual in nature.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Anyone who has ever been to a Muslim country with a woman (or any Mediterranean country, frankly, except perhaps Spain/France) knows what the attitude of their men towards women is. Simply cannot control themselves.

[Angelsaint]

Where the hell do you go on holiday?

There were 53 cases of harassment, 39 of which were sexual in nature.
Alleged*

[Angelsaint]

Anyone who has ever been to a Muslim country with a woman (or any Mediterranean country, frankly, except perhaps Spain/France) knows what the attitude of their men towards women is. Simply cannot control themselves.
Never been in a Muslim land but seeing the amount of tourists in Egypt I can only say that you are repeating Britain first crap.

[QE Harold Flair]

What makes you think that they are refugees? If they are, they have picked up the lingo pretty sharpish.

They may well not be, but that's the kind of mentality that is being imported from that region of the world.

[QE Harold Flair]

And only one of them confirmed he's a muslim. They could just be by-the-numbers sexists.

Yea, could be. Because you often get white, non-Muslim, Dutch males going up to tv presenters in the street and telling her to wear more clothes and that she's a slut for wearing normal female attire.

[QE Harold Flair]

Exactly. Most of these 'REFUGEE RAPE HARRASSMENT ETC' videos often have the perps speaking fluent Swedish/German etc. Pretty impressive for such uneducated, third world baboons.

It's no surprise this is bringing out the worst in native Muslims though.

That makes it even worse. These are people from the same regions, supposedly having been in the country for years, and nothing changes. You're making my side stronger.

[Magic]

Never been in a Muslim land but seeing the amount of tourists in Egypt I can only say that you are repeating Britain first crap.

In the European resorts, you mean?

[QE Harold Flair]

I seem to remember there being mass sexual assaults of western women in Tahir Square a couple of years ago.

[Angelsaint]

In the European resorts, you mean?in Egypt. Don't care what you call them.

[GS]

The issue is more than Islamic society assigns genders specific societal 'roles' which are hierarchical. There are restrictions on women in Islamic society which are completely at odds with modern 'western' values. Many of the refugees who are arriving in central or northern Europe are young men - largely, one suspects, because it's quite an arduous journey and they're more able to cope. They are coming from societies where women have significant restrictions placed upon them to societies which not only don't have these restrictions but would consider such restrictions to be medieval.

You require them to recognise the authority of the state (their new state, whether that be Germany, Sweden etc.) over the laws or rules of their religion. They're required to adhere to the rulings of secular judges or elected parliaments over religious teachings or religious courts. I think we are all prone to underestimating the differences in societal make-up between western Europe and the Middle East, particularly those coming from more rural areas.

In addition, the EU, as an institution, has not yet developed a comprehensive strategy, at a federal level, for dealing with any of this. They're talking of removing the Dublin regulation, effectively creating a free for all once any migrant, economic or otherwise, gets past the 'first line of defence' on Schengen's external borders. This extends to every EU-owned island or coastline in the Mediterranean or ill-defended borders with Turkey. You cannot fortify the borders of Schengen in these circumstances. Your solutions would have to be draconian, including placing barbed wire along coastlines or turning sinking boats around - none of which anyone is, rightly, prepared to do.

This means that we will continue to see mass immigration of undocumented refugees / migrants flooding into Europe, with no strategy for integrating them into society, no strategy for 'allocating' them effectively throughout Europe, no way of monitoring them and no way of knowing who is coming in or leaving. Attacks like Paris or Cologne can, and unfortunately probably will, happen again.

It's a shambles.

[QE Harold Flair]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWrcpxQkpms



And don't let the leftists try and brush this off like Cuck shindig has, they've always been idiots:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrhjmT4Zg5I

[The Merse]

Good work Harold. Use an isolated incident to prove a point on a broader scale.

[QE Harold Flair]

Good work Harold. Use an isolated incident to prove a point on a broader scale.

'Isolated'. Yes, ok then. Go to Rotherham, or any northern town, and ask the people there how 'isolated' such incidentsd and attitudes are. Rotherham only came to light after an attempted cover up, and that sort of thing happening in towns everywhere.

[The Merse]

Pickpocketing and assault by muslim immigrants? I'm sure there are other examples, absolutely, but I don't believe that the likes of Rotherham have a major issue with it. You're confusing completely different issues. The grooming that occurred in Rotherham was perpetrated by a group of Pakistani men who'd were either been in the UK for a decade or so or were second generation. The issue emerged out of the Pakistani community. In the Derby case, it was similar, but with the addition of two white British males, and then in Bristol they were Somali men who were relatively new to the UK. The modus operandi was also different between them.

How does that link into the video I watched? Open to Home Office statistics, University studies, etc. Not Daily Mail articles.

[QE Harold Flair]

Well I don't think statistics really matter to the left. When I used official statistics for the Romanian pickpocketing and ATM crtime epidemic I was labeled racist for doing so. Naturally.

And yes, the Pakistani men were second generation - further enhancing my point. They do not integrate - so do you want a further wave of that? Can you not see that these people have a warped view of women (and women to them seems to be 11 up) and seemingly cannot control themselves?

[The Merse]

That's actually the main issue highlighted by those crimes for me - in the 'mill towns' we didn't see the integration that most Southern and Midlands towns enjoyed. It generally occurred in towns with ailing industries and effected the Pakistani's more than anyone - of all of the immigrant groups of the 50's-70's, they were the least skilled and less inclined to start their own businesses.

Anyway, nothing to evidence your idea that aggravated pickpocketing by muslims is rife in the UK? Ace.

[QE Harold Flair]

So you accept that they are/were gropers and sexual deviants/dysfunctionals but just need to be changed?

[Magic]

I seem to remember there being mass sexual assaults of western women in Tahir Square a couple of years ago.

Yes someone posted it on Liveleak and said it was from Cologne.

[QE Harold Flair]

Well there are a lot of idiots on Liveleak and, as I'm sure you are aware, you need to do a lot of legwork yourself before the accounts of said videos can be verified.

Still, whetrehr it was from Egypt or Cologne, it wouldmn't make all that much difference.

[Shindig]

Here's a 2012 article which implies the white problem is considerably bigger.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2175798/A-fifth-suspected-rapists-murderers-Britain-immigrants.html

[QE Harold Flair]

Here's a 2012 article which implies the white problem is considerably bigger.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2175798/A-fifth-suspected-rapists-murderers-Britain-immigrants.html

Well, firstly, there's a lot more whites in the country. I might suggest a fifth of those crimes committed by migrants might just equate to a higher percentage? I don't think you quite draw the conclusion which is obvious.

Secondly, as we have sen here and throughout europe, these crimes committed by brown people of Arabic extraction are routinely ignored or covered up.

Oh, and thirdly, Mulims have a far higher tendency to 'sort things out; within their own community. Otherwise known as telling women to shut up or else.

Oh and fourthly, why do you bring 'white' into it. That article says nothing of white people.......

[Lewis]

And don't let the leftists try and brush this off like Cuck shindig has, they've always been idiots:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrhjmT4Zg5I

That was not just 'leftists'. If anything the left was more united in favour of intervention.

[QE Harold Flair]

Call them pacifists, then. The modern pacisfists are almost universally leftist retards.

[Shindig]

Well, firstly, there's a lot more whites in the country. I might suggest a fifth of those crimes committed by migrants might just equate to a higher percentage? I don't think you quite draw the conclusion which is obvious.

Secondly, as we have sen here and throughout europe, these crimes committed by brown people of Arabic extraction are routinely ignored or covered up.

Oh, and thirdly, Mulims have a far higher tendency to 'sort things out; within their own community. Otherwise known as telling women to shut up or else.

I have issue with this sentence. Maybe in their own countries there's some legal shenanigans going on but, if they're making up the numbers in terms of suspects, it means they are being caught out and imprisoned.

[Davgooner]

Unfortunately quite a few on the left seem to have responded to this by trying to downplay it and move attention on to the ills of our own culture with regard to things like this. It's surely a batshit mental move and just plays into the hands of those on the right who have jumped upon these attacks as justifying their racism. There was a recent TYT clip that got a shitload of flack for going off massively in that direction:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmhQ6YmYzPY

It's absolute wank. The progressive response is better one even when you shine a light on what happened and accept the cause of it. I don't really understand why people are so fucking dense when addressing this sort of thing.

[QE Harold Flair]

I have issue with this sentence. Maybe in their own countries there's some legal shenanigans going on but, if they're making up the numbers in terms of suspects, it means they are being caught out and imprisoned.

Yes, what that sentence is implies is that the problem is a lot worse than statistics will show.

[QE Harold Flair]

Unfortunately quite a few on the left seem to have responded to this by trying to downplay it and move attention on to the ills of our own culture with regard to things like this. It's surely a batshit mental move and just plays into the hands of those on the right who have jumped upon these attacks as justifying their racism.

And, indeed, the much higher number on the right who are just correct on this issue. You're a bit guilty here of of doing yourself what you accuse the left of.

Oh and TYT is a fucking disgrace. They are known for lieing and selective quoting.

[Kikó]

"The right" "the left". Attribute these opinions to people rather than be lazy and generic. I suppose if you keep it general to a group of "left" it's harder to be challenged.

[Davgooner]

Jog on you floppy tit.

I'm just glad we've found a way of making the right give a shit about such assaults.

[QE Harold Flair]

"The right" "the left". Attribute these opinions to people rather than be lazy and generic. I suppose if you keep it general to a group of "left" it's harder to be challenged.

Yes, and I'm sure you've never mentioned 'the right' in any negative way. Oh, no.

[GS]

Here's a 2012 article which implies the white problem is considerably bigger.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2175798/A-fifth-suspected-rapists-murderers-Britain-immigrants.html

Not that I wish to agree with Harold, but your point is clearly redundant. Immigrants comprise a significantly lower percentage of the population than "whites" (as you put it), therefore there would appear to be a significantly higher percentage of those within the former group than the latter committing the crimes outlined in the article. It's still a small percentage of both demographics.


Unfortunately quite a few on the left seem to have responded to this by trying to downplay it and move attention on to the ills of our own culture with regard to things like this. It's surely a batshit mental move and just plays into the hands of those on the right who have jumped upon these attacks as justifying their racism. There was a recent TYT clip that got a shitload of flack for going off massively in that direction:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmhQ6YmYzPY

It's absolute wank. The progressive response is better one even when you shine a light on what happened and accept the cause of it. I don't really understand why people are so fucking dense when addressing this sort of thing.

The danger of equating right wing and racist on this issue is one that should be avoided, as it leads people to adopt viewpoints on the extreme end. One can be nervous about immigration and its effects on society without being racist. We have, thankfully, moved past the point at the height of New Labour's policies where any attempt to question the impact was written off as "xenophobia" or "racism".

[QE Harold Flair]

Jog on you floppy tit.

I'm just glad we've found a way of making the right give a shit about such assaults.

When did they not? What an odd statement. But yes, I suppose the importing of these sexual deviants and rapists has brought it up more. I suppose those women raped and groped were all for a good cause, which is nice.

[Davgooner]

Fuck off Kiko you utter, utter cunt.

:eyemouth:

[Kikó]

Yes, and I'm sure you've never mentioned 'the right' in any negative way. Oh, no.

Nice swerve.

Fuck off Dave.

[Davgooner]

When did they not? What an odd statement.

You're right. You, for example, have always been a champion of women's rights and the rape apology stuff was just a figment of my imagination.


The danger of equating right wing and racist on this issue is one that should be avoided,

Unfortunately it can't be.

[GS]

You're right. You, for example, have always been a champion of women's rights and the rape apology stuff was just a figment of my imagination.



Unfortunately it can't be.

Not everyone on "the right" on the issue of immigration is racist - appealing to this sort of emotive language is precisely why the "debate", such as it is, ends up in nothing more than a slanging match and entrenched views. It also makes it impossible to persuade anyone that you're right, because you're effectively accusing people who disagree with you to be racist. Any retreat by them would be seen as an acceptance that you're right, hence they entrench. And thus we all get nowhere.

I really don't understand the thinking behind it.

[QE Harold Flair]

Nice swerve.

Fuck off Dave.

There is no swerve. I can't single out movements of people. There are such things as those who broadly take the left and the right view. Your 'point' is redundant.

[QE Harold Flair]

You're right. You, for example, have always been a champion of women's rights and the rape apology stuff was just a figment of my imagination.

False rape claims are still very high. I haven't changed my mind about that and it doesn't alter or contradict anything I say. The real interesting thing here is how conflicted the leftist feminists are on this. There does seem to be something of a deafening silence from them on this actual, real phenomenon of a mysoginy, instead of men spreading their legs on a train or a man fucking a girl in her arse when she asked him to and then claimed rape when he broke up with her.

[QE Harold Flair]

Not everyone on "the right" on the issue of immigration is racist - appealing to this sort of emotive language is precisely why the "debate", such as it is, ends up in nothing more than a slanging match and entrenched views. It also makes it impossible to persuade anyone that you're right, because you're effectively accusing people who disagree with you to be racist. Any retreat by them would be seen as an acceptance that you're right, hence they entrench. And thus we all get nowhere.

I really don't understand the thinking behind it.

Hardly anyone is these days. In most places it's a comnplete non-issue, but the offence brigade need something to make themselves feel better. That's why you get them referring to obviously non-racists such as Hitchens as racist. It's almost like an instictive response to any right wing views.

[Lewis]

Call them pacifists, then. The modern pacisfists are almost universally leftist retards.

They weren't pacifists either, so it's a pretty irrelevant video for whatever your point is.

[QE Harold Flair]

They weren't pacifists either, so it's a pretty irrelevant video for whatever your point is.

You have no idea who they were.

'Democratic socialists' doesn't exactly scream 'right wing' to me.

http://www.weaselzippers.us/252541-socialists-for-hitler-peace/

[Kikó]

There is no swerve. I can't single out movements of people. There are such things as those who broadly take the left and the right view. Your 'point' is redundant.

You can and do single out movements of people with what their beliefs are. Who are these people you are attributing the views to?


False rape claims are still very high. I haven't changed my mind about that and it doesn't alter or contradict anything I say. The real interesting thing here is how conflicted the leftist feminists are on this. There does seem to be something of a deafening silence from them on this actual, real phenomenon of a mysoginy, instead of men spreading their legs on a train or a man fucking a girl in her arse when she asked him to and then claimed rape when he broke up with her.

Define "very high". 1 in 10? 1 in 100? 1 in a million?

[QE Harold Flair]

You can and do single out movements of people with what their beliefs are. Who are these people you are attributing the views to?

I'm talking about the broad views of people here. You're just being obtuse. You do agree there is such a thing as left and right in politics, don't you? You can't single out people within a broad movement and discuss each person's specific views or you'd be here forever. You do the same thing with the right, so either practice what you preach or shut your trap. :)



Define "very high". 1 in 10? 1 in 100? 1 in a million?

I think it's higher than is reported or people think. Just look at mattress girl - she was paraded as a victim by the usual suspects and was only outed after it was discovered she was a big liar:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/340ym9/a_reminder_about_emma_sulkowicz_mattress_girl/

And of course the rape conviction rate is notoriously low. That's down to the nature of the crime, but also it's down to us telling girls that having sex while both parties are drunk means she was raped, but not him. And let's face it, that's exactly how a lot of fornication comes about.

[Lewis]

You have no idea who they were.

'Democratic socialists' doesn't exactly scream 'right wing' to me.

http://www.weaselzippers.us/252541-socialists-for-hitler-peace/

I never said that particular group of people were right-wingers, although the actual video merely refers to them as 'anti-war protesters'. It's the plebby site you saw it on that decided to call them 'Democratic Socialists', which was not a group or party I've ever heard of. I take it they're attempting to claim it was the Democrats being all fruity about war, when in actual fact it was the Democrat government that wanted to support Britain and pretty much did everything it could to provoke a war whilst the Republican establishment tore itself apart over how firmly it should have opposed them.

So your point that 'leftists... have always been idiots' is wrong, but you also picked just about the worst example to try and demonstrate it.

[QE Harold Flair]

Oh, you never said that group of people. That's okay, then. For a minute there I thought you were responding to exactly the video I posted. If you agree they are leftists in that video, however, then my statement stands firm. I'm well aware that many on the right opposed war (mainly because they saw communists as the greater threat) but the reasons they opposed were different to the left, as indicated in my bracketed point.

[Kikó]

I'm talking about the broad views of people here. You're just being obtuse. You do agree there is such a thing as left and right in politics, don't you? You can't single out people within a broad movement and discuss each person's specific views or you'd be here forever. You do the same thing with the right, so either practice what you preach or shut your trap. :)

It's probably quite easy to attribute the opinion you think the left hold then to certain left commentators then, no? I mean how else would you know how this homogeneous group think without someone articulating their view?



I think it's higher than is reported or people think. Just look at mattress girl - she was paraded as a victim by the usual suspects and was only outed after it was discovered she was a big liar:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/340ym9/a_reminder_about_emma_sulkowicz_mattress_girl/

And of course the rape conviction rate is notoriously low. That's down to the nature of the crime, but also it's down to us telling girls that having sex while both parties are drunk means she was raped, but not him. And let's face it, that's exactly how a lot of fornication comes about.

So what's very high then? You still haven't put a figure on it.

[QE Harold Flair]

It's probably quite easy to attribute the opinion you think the left hold then to certain left commentators then, no? I mean how else would you know how this homogeneous group think without someone articulating their view?

And if I want to pull up a particular person rather than a movement which leads to what we see, then I will do just that.



So what's very high then? You still haven't put a figure on it.

Well, I can't be bothered to find the statistics regrding rape accusations which lead to a conviction, but we both know it's exceedingly low. I've been over why that is. So no, I won't answer your deflecting question.

[Kikó]

You're the one claiming something is very high, what's the barometer for very high? I'm not really asking for statistics if you can't be bothered, just a finger in the air on what you think very high is.

[QE Harold Flair]

Yes, but false rape claims are usually not documented. The amount of claims which result in convictions being so low is a clear indicator to me.

[The Merse]

So you accept that they are/were gropers and sexual deviants/dysfunctionals but just need to be changed?

I think there's some serious issues with groups of muslims not integrating aspects of their lives. For me the integration doesn't mean adapting all values to those of the UK consensus, but it certainly does mean adapting those behaviours to suit UK law.

The Cologne attacks are a serious issue and very definitely related to the mass migration of young men from Northern Africa and the Middle East. My problem is with the way that you pinned an isolated, unrelated and damn well un-noteworthy incident onto it to evidence what surely anyone can see is an issue of concern.

[Lewis]

Oh, you never said that group of people. That's okay, then. For a minute there I thought you were responding to exactly the video I posted. If you agree they are leftists in that video, however, then my statement stands firm. I'm well aware that many on the right opposed war (mainly because they saw communists as the greater threat) but the reasons they opposed were different to the left, as indicated in my bracketed point.

I could only have responded to an exact reference to the video (I've no idea whether they were left-wing or not) had you made one, rather than using it to illustrate what 'the leftists' have 'always' been like. If you meant only to refer to the people in the video you should have said 'these leftists' or something more specific.

The American right were not particularly concerned about communism either (that was a European issue, and even then it was more the Soviet Union rather than communism itself). Much like modern 'leftists', they thought it was none of their business and a waste of money, effort, and lives.

[QE Harold Flair]

Why are you talking about the American right?

[QE Harold Flair]

IThe Cologne attacks are a serious issue and very definitely related to the mass migration of young men from Northern Africa and the Middle East. My problem is with the way that you pinned an isolated, unrelated and damn well un-noteworthy incident onto it to evidence what surely anyone can see is an issue of concern.

Every incident is isolated on its own.

[Lewis]

Why are you talking about the American right?

Because you posted footage of Americans, and have just complained that I was not 'responding to exactly the video I posted'. So are you now saying that you were in fact using it to represent left-wingers in general?

[QE Harold Flair]

Because you posted footage of Americans, and have just complained that I was not 'responding to exactly the video I posted'. So are you now saying that you were in fact using it to represent left-wingers in general?

Oh, I thought you wasn't responding to that video? That video that was, as you admit, of Socialists, who could barely be more left wing.

[Lewis]

I never said they were socialists (let alone Socialists). They might have been, but even then their policy preferences were shared by many on the right at the time, so it fails to demonstrate that 'the leftists' have 'always been idiots'.

[QE Harold Flair]

Preferences for different reasons, and the reasons they were against the war are not a footnote in what I'm saying. It's the exact point, in fact.

[Lewis]

You posted a video of American anti-war activists (of no specified political affiliation) in order to demonstrate that 'the leftists' have 'always been idiots'. The fact you took it from an American website which refers to them as 'Democratic Socialists' in order to compare them to modern 'leftists' did initially suggest you were talking about American non-interventionists; but then you started talking about the European anti-war arguments and asking me why I was restricting the discussion to the America depicted in the video you posted with reference to an American website making the comparison between then and modern day America.

What exactly is your point?

[QE Harold Flair]

No, it didn't. Nowhere did I specify anything about Americans. I expressly stated 'the left' as you say yourself, not 'the American left'.

My 'point' is that the left have always been idiots. Again, as you noted yourself many times.

[Lewis]

So why 'prove' that with footage of people (who may not even have been left-wing) expressing something that many on the right agreed with?

[QE Harold Flair]

Because, as I have already said (here we go again), they had very different reasons for sometimes wanting the same outcome. It's like comparing the far left and UKIP on the EU referendum.

[Lewis]

The left opposed war in the thirties because they disliked war (understandable really), and the 'far left' dislike the European Union because it's undemocratic and exists to serve corporations. What makes your reasons more worthy?

[QE Harold Flair]

I didn't say they were more worthy, I simply explained they're different. The main reason for me would be getting control of the borders.

And yes opposing war might be understandable, but not in all circumstances. And if there was a circumstance which highlights that, it's the second world war.

[Lewis]

Then how have 'the leftists... always been idiots' if their reasons and intentions are no less worthy than your own?

[QE Harold Flair]

It depends what you mean by worthy. You can be a well intentioned idiot.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/some-migrants-in-germany-want-to-go-home-1453672274?mod=e2tw&cb=logged0.9161361188162118

I can't read any more than the first few lines there but this is in the article apparently- “After seeing teenagers kissing in public, he said he couldn't raise his daughters here.”

[QE Harold Flair]

Commence the kissing then, I say.

[Lewis]

It depends what you mean by worthy. You can be a well intentioned idiot.

The people in the video you posted (and 'the leftists' in general) weren't, so it doesn't show what you wanted it to.

[QE Harold Flair]

The people in the video you posted (and 'the leftists' in general) weren't, so it doesn't show what you wanted it to.

Why weren't they?

[Lewis]

They didn't want to get involved in a European war and they were safe from invasion across the ocean. What's idiotic about it?

[QE Harold Flair]

They didn't want to get involved in a European war and they were safe from invasion across the ocean. What's idiotic about it?

I would think it a moral duty to confront that kind of fascism.

[Boydy]

What about the fascism in Spain?

[Lewis]

Plus you've defended the anti-war right who thought communism was the greater threat.

[QE Harold Flair]

What about the fascism in Spain?

What about it? When did they exterminate millions of Jews? Were they invading the rest of Europe? I fear we may be getting into that facile argument of 'well we did it here so we have to do it there'. Not they are comparible, of course.

[QE Harold Flair]

Plus you've defended the anti-war right who thought communism was the greater threat.

They weren't anti-war at all costs (pacifist twats). I'm sure they would have rather gone to war with the communists.

[Boydy]

What about it? When did they exterminate millions of Jews? Were they invading the rest of Europe? I fear we may be getting into that facile argument of 'well we did it here so we have to do it there'. Not they are comparible, of course.

They weren't exterminating Jews, sure (neither were the Nazis in 1939), but they were pretty nasty (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Terror_(Spain)).

They weren't invading the rest of Europe but they did overthrow an elected government (isn't that really the problem with someone invading elsewhere?) and were supported by the two main fascist powers in Europe.

[Lewis]

They weren't anti-war at all costs (pacifist twats). I'm sure they would have rather gone to war with the communists.

Those people in the video weren't 'anti-war at all costs'. They were against involvement in foreign wars. And some on the right may well have preferred war against communism, but according to you that meant they were failing in their 'moral duty to confront that kind of fascism'.

[QE Harold Flair]

They weren't exterminating Jews, sure (neither were the Nazis in 1939), but they were pretty nasty (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Terror_(Spain)).

They weren't invading the rest of Europe but they did overthrow an elected government (isn't that really the problem with someone invading elsewhere?) and were supported by the two main fascist powers in Europe.

Those demonstrations were in 1941.... so anyway, is what you're saying that we shouldn't have resisted Hitler and Germany?

[QE Harold Flair]

Those people in the video weren't 'anti-war at all costs'. They were against involvement in foreign wars. And some on the right may well have preferred war against communism, but according to you that meant they were failing in their 'moral duty to confront that kind of fascism'.

How do you know? Earlier you said we didn't know who they were. My point was against the type of limp-wristed, spineless lefties that think we should 'get around the table' with ISIS. The pacifists who though appeasing Hitler was a good idea.

[Lewis]

I said we didn't know their political affiliations, and there is a difference between anti-war and pacifism (their signs suggest the former rather than the latter). I know what your point was. My point was that it isn't particularly well-demonstrated by that video.

[QE Harold Flair]

Terrific. Glad we cleared that up.

[QE Harold Flair]

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/teen-held-over-refugee-centre-worker-murder/ar-BBoHTU7?li=AAaeUIW

Refugees welcome. I suspect he couldn't handle a woman that beautiful being uncovered.

http://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/BBoHWyr.img?h=410&w=728&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f&x=1126&y=265


A young asylum seeker has been arrested on suspicion of murdering a female employee at a refugee centre in Sweden.
The 22-year-old victim was stabbed to death at a centre for youngsters aged between 14 and 17 in Molndal, near Gothenburg, on Monday.
She was taken to Sahlgrenska University Hospital in Gothenburg, but died of her wounds.
Swedish newspaper Expressen named her as Alexandra Mezher, whose family was originally from Lebanon.
She had reportedly only been working at the centre for a few months.
"It is so terrible. She was a person who wanted to do good," a cousin told the paper.
"We have cried a lot. She was such a nice person, warm and happy."
Her parents described her as "an angel".
Police spokesman Thomas Fuxborg said there were signs of a violent fight at the home.
Two people were holding down the male suspect when police arrived at the scene.
He did not give any details about the suspect's age or nationality.
Swedish news agency TT reported he was 15 years old.
"These kinds of calls are becoming more and more common," said Mr Fuxborg.
"We're dealing with more incidents like these since the arrival of so many more refugees from abroad."
Sweden's Prime Minister Stefan Lofven, who visited the centre, described the attack as a "tragedy".
"You should be able to feel safe at work," he said, according to the Gothenburg Post.
Sweden has tightened its asylum rules to curb the migrant flow after taking in more than 160,000 asylum seekers in 2015 - putting it among the EU states with the highest proportion of refugees per capita.

[Angelsaint]

Why do they allow knives big enough to cause such damage in a place like that?
And 15 yr old with or without a knife should be easy to handle by a healthy adult.

[QE Harold Flair]

Cultural suicide, in action.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irdn99g0rOU

[Yevrah]

I still don't understand how you reconcile being against stuff like that with your attitude towards rape by whites, which can generally be summed up by "it wasn't really rape now, was it".

It's a staggering inconsistency, even by your own often flaky standards.

[QE Harold Flair]

That's because you're a victim of social engineering. I am against false rape claims. I have only ever highlighted a few which I believe are false (and some which are proven so) and the last one was agreed with by a court of law. As was the mattress girl debacle, and any other number of false rape allegations perpetrated on university campuses. But this clearly wasn't a false rape/harrassment claim. It was hundreds of men at the same time thinking they can go around groping any woman they want. This is not the same and that much should be obvious. The kind of feminist megamouths who complain about men sitting with their legs too far apart are nowhere to be seen or heard on this. It's funny that, isn't it? When you get something they should be genuinely excercised about they say nothing, because the perpetrators aren't white (privileged innit) men.

You will be hard pushed to find me advocating the harrassment and rape of women, but I'm sure you have that impression for reasons I'm not yet clear.

[Magic]

Shouldn't it be assumed that feminists find this repulsive? There's really no need to be all shouty about this.

[Henry]

How do you know? Earlier you said we didn't know who they were. My point was against the type of limp-wristed, spineless lefties that think we should 'get around the table' with ISIS. The pacifists who though appeasing Hitler was a good idea.

That was the Tory party. Lefties were off fighting in the Spanish Civil War.

[QE Harold Flair]

Shouldn't it be assumed that feminists find this repulsive? There's really no need to be all shouty about this.

You didn't watch Question Time, then? This sums it up:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMShFYy_DyA

Desperate attemps at equivocation. I think most people are seeing through this shit now but you need to be on guard, because this is the kind of social suicide which leads to this. She's had calls to quit but, like Dianna Abbot who's racist but black so it's okay, she won't have to:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avUViko6TNA


I mean really, how much more clear can it be than a major blatantly saying German girls should find other ways home, dress more conseravtively and try and be more 'responsible' around migrants? That's capitulation. I think this will absolutely explode in pretty quick fashion, probably qwithin a year or two. The right and extreme right is going to grow and grow.

[QE Harold Flair]

That was the Tory party. Lefties were off fighting in the Spanish Civil War.

I've already finished with this point and it doesn't need to be brought up again.

[Toby]

I still don't understand how you reconcile being against stuff like that with your attitude towards rape by whites, which can generally be summed up by "it wasn't really rape now, was it".

It's a staggering inconsistency, even by your own often flaky standards.

I saw this (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/31/teenage-girl-made-up-migrant-claim-that-caused-uproar-in-germany) yesterday and thought it'd probably break Harold trying to decide where to go with it.

At least he's learned how to use 'equivocating' correctly.

[QE Harold Flair]

It's quite easy to know where to go with it. She was in the wrong. Thousands of other cases, with multiple hundreds of witnesses, are a different story. Best not to mention it, though.

And show me where I used 'equivocating' incorrectly.

[Toby]

Here: http://www.thedugout.tv/community/showthread.php?t=94346&page=40

On reflection you're probably still not using it properly, as it sounds like you still mean she was equating everyday stuff in Birmingham to what happened in Cologne.

[randomlegend]

He definitely doesn't know what it means :D

[QE Harold Flair]

Here: http://www.thedugout.tv/community/showthread.php?t=94346&page=40

On reflection you're probably still not using it properly, as it sounds like you still mean she was equating everyday stuff in Birmingham to what happened in Cologne.

So does that mean you don't know what it means, then? You did just say I used it correctly.

[randomlegend]

Weak.

[Toby]

I didn't watch the video and misremembered how it had gone, so yes I was wrong. I've corrected myself now: you're still an idiot.

[QE Harold Flair]

Oh yes, that's right. Misremembered, of course.

[Toby]

A massive lol at him writing words to the effect of, "Yes that's exactly what she was doing" and then deleting it when he realised that was admitting his failures.

[QE Harold Flair]

Let's call it equating, then. I used the wrong word. Now how about dealing with the meat of what I said? You're probably not interetsed in that.

[Toby]

Oh yes, that's right. Misremembered, of course.

It's fine, I was wrong. I'm comfortable with that here. I incorrectly suggested you had improved your vocabulary. I freely admit it was a fairly ludicrous mistake.

[QE Harold Flair]

It's fine, I was wrong. I'm comfortable with that here. I incorrectly suggested you had improved your vocabulary. I freely admit it was a fairly ludicrous mistake.

Finished, you boring cunt?

[Toby]

Let's call it equating, then. I used the wrong word. Now how about dealing with the meat of what I said? You're probably not interetsed in that.

There was no meat to what she said. It was ill-informed to the point of being offensive. What more do you expect people to say?

[QE Harold Flair]

Not what she said, what I said. It's written right there in the post you quoted, Mr Vocabulary.

[Kikó]

Finished, you boring cunt?

:lol: #peakharold

[Manc]

Finished, you boring cunt?

Watch he doesn't chin you, mate.

[QE Harold Flair]

Ah yes, here we go. Good job, mods!

[QE Harold Flair]

:lol: #peakharold

http://mycatbirdseat.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/tin-foil-hat.jpg

[Toby]

Magic suggested feminists would be repulsed by what happened in Cologne, you posted a video of Jess Philips talking nonsense. What's the argument exactly?

[QE Harold Flair]

Yes, I posted a video showing she was 'as repulsed' by the mass rapes in Germany as she was by what happens every weekend in Birmingham, apparently (feminist logic). That was kind of the point. Ignoring this clearly retarded cultural aspect and EQUATING it with what happens on a normal weekend in Birmingham. Absolute nonsene, of course.

[Magic]

Well...that escalated quickly.

[Toby]

Yes, I posted a video showing she was 'as repulsed' by the mass rapes in Germany as she was by what happens every weekend in Birmingham, apparently feminisg logic). That was kind of the point.

But she was wrong, and there is nothing 'feminist' about what she said. That people describe themselves as 'feminists' when talking nonsense isn't much of an argument against feminism.

[Henry]

I've already finished with this point and it doesn't need to be brought up again.

Convenient, since you were wrong.

[QE Harold Flair]

Yes, she was wrong. As I said feminists have been on this issue, which I why I used this feminist as a fucking example. Jesus.

[QE Harold Flair]

Convenient, since you were wrong.

I don't think you read the entire train that led to that point. But okay you claim I was wrong. Well done. Move along.

[Toby]

Yes, she was wrong. As I said feminists have been on this issue, which I why I used this feminist as a fucking example. Jesus.

That's like saying Chelsea fans are wrong about 9/11 because Simon thinks there was a conspiracy.

Yes, a lot of people who describe themselves as feminists talk nonsense. Not a very cutting observation that one.

[QE Harold Flair]

Well no, it isn't. Because I've seen several feminists making similar claims. Granted, I can't posts the opinion of every feminist.

And let's be honest, how much have you heard from feminists about this? I heard more about man spreading.

[Magic]

If you have to decry rape as wrong in any form that's pretty horrific. I'm glad they aren't because that implies some think it's ok. Like Harold.

[Toby]

Well no, it isn't. Because I've seen several feminists making similar claims. Granted, I can't posts the opinion of every feminist.

And let's be honest, how much have you heard from feminists about this? I heard more about man spreading.

I'm sure you regularly read the views of feminists first hand.

Feminists speak out about sexual violence every day, and every sensible author has described the Cologne attacks as unjustifiable. They just aren't typically painting it as a race issue.

Here is the sort of point I assume Philips was trying to make made far better: http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/feminism/2016/01/after-cologne-we-cant-let-bigots-steal-feminism

[QE Harold Flair]

If you have to decry rape as wrong in any form that's pretty horrific. I'm glad they aren't because that implies some think it's ok. Like Harold.

Desist from misrepresenting what I think and say. It's not that they think it's okay, it's that they refuse to see the link that any person should between the culture these people come from and their mass raping behaviour. I think they must know it, because they can't be that stupid, but the perpetrators are brown people from abroad.....

[QE Harold Flair]

I'm sure you regularly read the views of feminists first hand.

Feminists speak out about sexual violence every day, and every sensible author has described the Cologne attacks as unjustifiable. They just aren't typically painting it as a race issue.

Here is the sort of point I assume Philips was trying to make made far better: http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/feminism/2016/01/after-cologne-we-cant-let-bigots-steal-feminism

Laurie Penny - fuck me that's scraping the barrell. I couldn't even get past the first paragraph without regurgitation almost occurring. Again, she's saying exactly what Phillips is - that this mass rape is nothing different to what happens elsewhere. It is, and as such will continue to be stated by me until it penetrates the thick skulls of those willfully choosing to ignore it and place their own politically correct worldview above the reality of this kind of mass rape of western women. The point Phillips was trying to make was not hard to decipher at all - she said it plainly.

Again, just to make this abundantly clear - I have never heard of hundreds of sexual assaults and rapes in one place on one night. This is something that does not happen here, and it's down to a retarded culture these people come from. Its not nothing that they were virtually all reported to be men of Arabic descent.

[igor_balis]

In Harold's defence, Laurie Penny is probably the one journalist who has made me consider becoming right-wing.

[QE Harold Flair]

I'll take this as the perfect opportunity to spread this - all the lies, hypocrisy, self deceipt, name calling, playing the victim and desperation so typical of the 'progressive' feminist in one handy bite sized snippet.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oj9dA6E3fJw




http://www.avoiceformen.com/misandry/laurie-penny-of-newstatesman-is-a-petulant-dishonest-child-whos-been-caught-again-pennyred/

[Chrissy]

David Starkey's anecdote about the fee is all well and good but he win's the "fuckwit award" for the pointing.

Might I add, I really can't fucking stand her at all.

[Chrissy]

Again, just to make this abundantly clear - I have never heard of hundreds of sexual assaults and rapes in one place on one night. This is something that does not happen here, and it's down to a retarded culture these people come from. Its not nothing that they were virtually all reported to be men of Arabic descent.

I'm sorry but that is fucking ridiculous. Harold have you actually lived in an arabic country? I have. I'll tell you now, you rape a woman in Saudi Arabia you get either your back whipped to within an inch of your life or executed. Now that is a country that has fucking no real conventional law to deal with rape outside Sharia law and they chop folks heads off for it. Doesn't seem to me that that type of behaviour is encouraged. Other Arabic countries deal with rapists in a similar fashion.

[QE Harold Flair]

I'm sorry but that is fucking ridiculous. Harold have you actually lived in an arabic country? I have. I'll tell you now, you rape a woman in Saudi Arabia you get either your back whipped to within an inch of your life or executed. Now that is a country that has fucking no real conventional law to deal with rape outside Sharia law and they chop folks heads off for it. Doesn't seem to me that that type of behaviour is encouraged. Other Arabic countries deal with rapists in a similar fashion.

How many migrants are from Saudi Arabia? In any case -


Rape in Saudi Arabia has been considerably investigated by various observers. In 1988, sexual offences stood at 2.19 rapes per 100,000 population.[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Saudi_Arabia#cite_note-1) Under Sharia law (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia_law), a law generally enforced by the Islamic states(Islamic Law), punishment imposed by the court on the rapist may range from flogging (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flogging) to execution (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution). However, there is no penal code (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_code) in Saudi Arabia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabia) and there is no written law which specifically criminalizes rape or prescribes its punishment. If the rape victim first entered the rapist's company in violation of purdah (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purdah), she also stands to be punished by the law's current holdings.[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Saudi_Arabia#cite_note-AP-2) In addition, there is no prohibition against marital rape (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marital_rape) or statutory rape (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statutory_rape).


Besides you being pretty off base even in what you claim (as demonstrated above), even were it the case that rape was dealt with severely, it does nothing to refute what I say at all. These men still come from a retarded culture which sees women, particularly non Muslim/covered women, as fair game.

[QE Harold Flair]

David Starkey's anecdote about the fee is all well and good but he win's the "fuckwit award" for the pointing.

Might I add, I really can't fucking stand her at all.

That just makes it better. Either way, I can't think of any gesture which could out-fuckwit her performance there. It's the stuff of legend.

[Spoonsky]

I'm sorry but that is fucking ridiculous. Harold have you actually lived in an arabic country? I have. I'll tell you now, you rape a woman in Saudi Arabia you get either your back whipped to within an inch of your life or executed. Now that is a country that has fucking no real conventional law to deal with rape outside Sharia law and they chop folks heads off for it. Doesn't seem to me that that type of behaviour is encouraged. Other Arabic countries deal with rapists in a similar fashion.

Why did you live in Saudi Arabia?

[Chrissy]

The men/subhuman scum responsible are not rapists because they come from Arabic countries Harold. I refuse to accept or even entertain such uneducated shite.

Those responsible do not come from a culture that views women as fair game. That is a ridiculous statement. As is claiming they come from a retarded background.

By all means state that those responsible were immigrants. That they came from Syria. That is both fair and accurate. To claim they behaved the way they did due to their culture is racist as fuck, nevermind being utterly moronic. Your statement is not one you can prove to any extent whatsoever.

[Chrissy]

Why did you live in Saudi Arabia?

I was there for three weeks through work.

[Spoonsky]

"Lived" might be a stretch mate. I've lived in London.

[QE Harold Flair]

The men/subhuman scum responsible are not rapists because they come from Arabic countries Harold. I refuse to accept or even entertain such uneducated shite.

I know you do. So you really think there is no cultural aspect to this? I mean that does seem to be ignoring reality.


Those responsible do not come from a culture that views women as fair game. That is a ridiculous statement. As is claiming they come from a retarded background.

Again, I think it's just ignoring reality. What would have to happen for you to change your mind, exactly? Why have rape cases exploded in countries such as Sweden since they started allowing in these people?


By all means state that those responsible were immigrants. That they came from Syria. That is both fair and accurate. To claim they behaved the way they did due to their culture is racist as fuck, nevermind being utterly moronic. Your statement is not one you can prove to any extent whatsoever.

Their culture absolutely plays a part in what they do and how they behave. They don't view women as we do. They do not hold the same values as we do. The truth isn't racist. Facts are not racist. It's because of people who think like you that the far right will continue to rise.

[Chrissy]

"Lived" might be a stretch mate. I've lived in London.

Cool, well I existed/visited/hung about/breathed in Saudi Arabia. My point being is that I have actually been there and seen what life is like. However, I am sure the 3 weeks spent there they totally changed the fabric of society and how it operates purely to fool my into a false sense of understanding. Sneaky bastards so they are.

[QE Harold Flair]

I was there for three weeks through work.

:D

I don't even....

[Chrissy]

I know you do. So you really think there is no cultural aspect to this? I mean that does seem to be ignoring reality.

Again, I think it's just ignoring reality. What would have to happen for you to change your mind, exactly? Why have rape cases exploded in countries such as Sweden since they started allowing in these people?
Their culture absolutely plays a part in what they do and how they behave. They don't view women as we do. They do not hold the same values as we do. The truth isn't racist. Facts are not racist. It's because of people who think like you that the far right will continue to rise.

It's not a fact though, its conjecture on your part. I happen to feel based on your previous anti Islamic rants that you perhaps have a wee bit of the old racism about you and your comments. That's not a fact either, just an opinion.

What we do know is that no one knows specifically who carried out these crimes. They could have been turkish migrants, syrian, cypriot, greek. All we know is that they were brown skinned and didn't speak in German.

If it's proven they are all of Syrian origin then you can justifiably say that male Syrian migrants have committed crimes. What you can't state as fact is that its because it's down to their culture. As not all male Syrians are rapists but they would be if the culture dictates to the extent you imply.

Could it not be that a group of angry , males have collectively carried out disgusting behaviour after being treated like human cattle for months. That they have as a result become desensitised to others, leading to such action?

Again, the answer is we simply do not know. However, insinuating Arabic culture condones rape is bullshit, so you need to behave.

[Chrissy]

:D

I don't even....
Is it;
a - Think without consulting youtube?
b - Have an original thought?
c - Live a day without being terrified of "the women/the blacks/the arabs" taking over?

[QE Harold Flair]

Is it;
a - Think without consulting youtube?
b - Have an original thought?
c - Live a day without being terrified of "the women/the blacks/the arabs" taking over?

Good post.

[Chrissy]

You know i'd have more respect for you if you just came out with it and were openly racist, misogynistic etc. It's this whimsical youtube trial you conduct over every fucking subject that boils my piss.

Have some fucking conviction man.

I may totally disagree with you but at least I can say "well that's horrific but at least he's had the balls to say what he thinks".

[QE Harold Flair]

It's not a fact though, its conjecture on your part. I happen to feel based on your previous anti Islamic rants that you perhaps have a wee bit of the old racism about you and your comments. That's not a fact either, just an opinion.

So it's not a fact that the Arabic world where these people come from doesn't have the equality for women we do? Or anywhere near it, in fact.

What we do know is that no one knows specifically who carried out these crimes. They could have been turkish migrants, syrian, cypriot, greek. All we know is that they were brown skinned and didn't speak in German.


If it's proven they are all of Syrian origin then you can justifiably say that male Syrian migrants have committed crimes. What you can't state as fact is that its because it's down to their culture. As not all male Syrians are rapists but they would be if the culture dictates to the extent you imply.

It seems to me that if a massive, massive minority of one particular culture are committing this particulkar crime, then you have to look at what the common factor is. And we know they come from a backwards culture in terms of human rights and the role of women. Denying this is denying a fact.


Could it not be that a group of angry , males have collectively carried out disgusting behaviour after being treated like human cattle for months. That they have as a result become desensitised to others, leading to such action?

Ugh, makes my skin crawl. Would you, under and circumstance, feel that you could go out sexually assaulting women? Have a think about what you just said.


Again, the answer is we simply do not know. However, insinuating Arabic culture condones rape is bullshit, so you need to behave

I'll ask again - how many more of thse will it take before you admit their culture plays a part? Even pinko henry has conceded as much.

[QE Harold Flair]

You know i'd have more respect for you if you just came out with it and were openly racist, misogynistic etc. It's this whimsical youtube trial you conduct over every fucking subject that boils my piss.

Have some fucking conviction man.

I may totally disagree with you but at least I can say "well that's horrific but at least he's had the balls to say what he thinks".

Yes, you would love that, I know. But I'm neither of those things, so just deal with what I actually say and not what you want to believe. Thanks.

Why don't you jusrt admit you're a paedophile? We can all play this game.

[Chrissy]

39 Rangers fans were arrested in Manchester for causing riots. All 39 were Rangers fans and male. Being a Rangers fan was not why they rioted etc, being a fuckwit was.

Likewise, fuck knows how many migrants committed sexual assaults, they did so because they are fucking deviants not because of where they came from. Prove, with actual evidence how your assessment is correct.

All you are doing is offering opinions as facts. Just because you state something with conviction does not make it a fact.

[QE Harold Flair]

Actually being a Rangers fan was definitely part of why they rioted. Terrible example.

Actual evidence comes from multiple witnesses viewing hundreds of men committing sexual acts in one place, on one night. This is not something that happens in the west. Now general violence and rioting is quite different from sexually assaulting women. I hope you will agree. I'll ask again - is it just a coincidence the rape explosion in Sweden, the most liberal of liberal countries, has coincided with them allowing in these people? How far can you bend over backwards?

[Chrissy]

Actually being a Rangers fan was definitely part of why they rioted. Terrible example.

As a Killie fan I don't actually mind being wrong about that. Win Win argument for me here.

[QE Harold Flair]

As a Killie fan I don't actually mind being wrong about that. Win Win argument for me here.

It's not because of Rangers, particularly. But yes, they rioted because they were Rangers fans on that specific occasion. That's obvious, isn't it?

[Chrissy]

It's not because of Rangers, particularly. But yes, they rioted because they were Rangers fans on that specific occasion. That's obvious, isn't it?

Again, happy for you to have the win on this one.