These Sex Attacks in Germany

[QE Harold Flair]

http://www.frontpagemag.com/point/175434/1-4-swedish-women-will-be-raped-sexual-assaults-daniel-greenfield

https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2012/08/20/the-living-hell-for-swedish-women-5-muslims-commit-nearly-77-6-of-all-rape-crimes/

Sometimes no words are needed.

[Chrissy]

https://itsnobody.wordpress.com/2011/08/15/debunking-the-atheistracist-muslim-rape-lie-in-sweden/

http://www.geocurrents.info/geography-of-crime-and-punishment/misleading-murder-and-rape-maps-and-the-the-sweden-rape-puzzle



Sometimes no words are needed.

Your move Roosh-e-victory

[Spoonsky]

Actually being a Rangers fan was definitely part of why they rioted. Terrible example.

I agree with Harold here, actually. There's a pattern of hooliganism in football that has historically led to rioting, so you can't exactly say that being Rangers fans had nothing to do with it. That doesn't mean that all Rangers fans are rioters. Likewise, I think there's a pretty strong argument that women have less equality and freedom in Middle Eastern cultures, and it's not that extreme to suggest that that will have something to do with incidents like Cologne. That's not the same as calling all migrants rapists.

It's like when you all talk about Americans being gun-crazy. I, an American, am not gun-crazy, but I don't get mad because I know what you mean and there's some truth to it.

[Toby]

Laurie Penny - fuck me that's scraping the barrell. I couldn't even get past the first paragraph without regurgitation almost occurring. Again, she's saying exactly what Phillips is - that this mass rape is nothing different to what happens elsewhere. It is, and as such will continue to be stated by me until it penetrates the thick skulls of those willfully choosing to ignore it and place their own politically correct worldview above the reality of this kind of mass rape of western women. The point Phillips was trying to make was not hard to decipher at all - she said it plainly.

Again, just to make this abundantly clear - I have never heard of hundreds of sexual assaults and rapes in one place on one night. This is something that does not happen here, and it's down to a retarded culture these people come from. Its not nothing that they were virtually all reported to be men of Arabic descent.

Yes, she can talk shit. That article goes off the rails a bit while she talks about white men obsessing over Islamist wife-beatings as an outlet for their misogyny. That strikes me as patent bullshit. Her wider point - of 'yes was absolutely terrible but it's nice you suddenly care about rape' is well made. At no point does she attempt to play down what happened in Cologne.

And of course you didn't get past the first paragraph. Let's not pretend that's the author's fault.

[Toby]

I'll take this as the perfect opportunity to spread this - all the lies, hypocrisy, self deceipt, name calling, playing the victim and desperation so typical of the 'progressive' feminist in one handy bite sized snippet.


I'm glad it's presented you an opportunity to share a favourite video again. Great. I don't defend Laurie Penny in general, but you asked why feminists weren't discussing what happened.

[QE Harold Flair]

Yes, she can talk shit. That article goes off the rails a bit while she talks about white men obsessing over Islamist wife-beatings as an outlet for their misogyny. That strikes me as patent bullshit. Her wider point - of 'yes was absolutely terrible but it's nice you suddenly care about rape' is well made. At no point does she attempt to play down what happened in Cologne.

And of course you didn't get past the first paragraph. Let's not pretend that's the author's fault.

It's not the case that people don't care about rape. She is full of shit. I've heard her talk many times - I know exactly where she would go with it. She is a proven liar and often, as in the video provided, makes personal (unfounded) attacks then cries like a bitch when she gets it back.

[QE Harold Flair]

I'm glad it's presented you an opportunity to share a favourite video again. Great. I don't defend Laurie Penny in general, but you asked why feminists weren't discussing what happened.

Yes, and I think what you posted only serves to show why that is. She is discussing it, in such a way as to make it seem not worse than what happens here. It is worse and it is something we simply haven't seen here. Just look at what's happened in Sweden - this is not a fucking coincidence.

[Toby]

Cool. She doesn't do that in the article so it's not particularly relevant.

[QE Harold Flair]

She doesn't, but it's nice to have some background. Just as if Nick Griffin wrote an article you might not give it much time of day. Well, same here. I don't like frauds.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3077499/Laurie-Penny-said-grandmother-won-George-Cross.html


Just one of her lies, after she supported the desecration of the women's war memorial. Which is nice.

[Toby]

If Griffin wrote an article it would be quite simple to challenge the arguments.

[QE Harold Flair]

It's very simple to challenge hers, since she simply can't bring herself to say anything bad about Islamists without a 'but'. Just as she did on the Charlie Hebdo attacks:

'Murder is vile and unconscionable. Freedom of the press must be protected. But racist trolling is not heroism. Je Ne Suis Pas Charlie.'

I thought these feminists were against victim blaming?

What is it about her arguments that you find persuasive? You think nobody cared about rape before Islamists started their mass rape culture over here? Perhaps what makes it worse is that we are inviting these people in, against the wishes of the vast majority. We lock our perverts up.

[Toby]

That's not victim blaming. She's not saying, "they were trolls so they had it coming".

Feminists are obviously going to take the view that all sexual violence is bad wherever it happens, and it goes without saying that mass sexual violence is very bad. However, it doesn't really advance any feminist discussion to further a myopic discussion about this specific incident, and especially not in the face of masses of people like you demanding they do that so that you can co-opt the arguments for your own agenda.

[Boydy]

In Harold's defence, Laurie Penny is probably the one journalist who has made me consider becoming right-wing.

Same. I can't fucking stand her.

[Toby]

What is it about her arguments that you find persuasive? You think nobody cared about rape before Islamists started their mass rape culture over here?

You and many others pedalling similar arguments to you don't. You've evidenced that plenty on here.


We lock our perverts up.

A lot of the time we don't.

[QE Harold Flair]

That's not victim blaming. She's not saying, "they were trolls so they had it coming".

She's very much inferring it and, given her past, it's an inference many will take from her.


Feminists are obviously going to take the view that all sexual violence is bad wherever it happens, and it goes without saying that mass sexual violence is very bad. However, it doesn't really advance any feminist discussion to further a myopic discussion about this specific incident, and especially not in the face of masses of people like you demanding they do that so that you can co-opt the arguments for your own agenda.

Yes, my 'agenda' is the protection of our society from that of a backwards one. Everyone speaks with some kind of agenda, including you.

[QE Harold Flair]

You and many others pedalling similar arguments to you don't. You've evidenced that plenty on here.

You made no attemtpt to answer my question. Have another go.



A lot of the time we don't

I think we might succeed in the case of hundreds of witnesses being present. I certainly don't think we would invite them over to see our female family members.

[Toby]

She's very much inferring it and, given her past, it's an inference many will take from her.

She really isn't.


Yes, my 'agenda' is the protection of our society from that of a backwards one. Everyone speaks with some kind of agenda, including you.

Is there a point to this?

[QE Harold Flair]

She really is. She's at best accused Charlie Hebdo of 'racist trolling'. Which is as ill-informed as you could possibly get since they are/were a left wing, anti-racist publication. So she's either stupid or knowingly lieing.

And yes, the point is that saying I have an 'agenda' is pointless, because so do you. And anyone else who speaks from their own perspective on the matter.

[igor_balis]

To argue that some dickheads are using these sex attacks to support their own bigoted agenda when they've never exactly been campaigners against sexual assault closer to home is fair enough. To argue that the very fact rapes are and have been committed by non-immigrants means there aren't legitimate grounds for a honest discussion on the potential role different cultural norms have had on these recent attacks is not. Neither is dismissing the view that these recent events are of a completely different nature and scope to individual cases of rape and sexual assault that happen on a day to day basis.

I'm not sure what the answers are as I'm a fucking idiot, but it does get tedious when a lot of the left-wing seems more concerned with closing ranks and finding a way to argue that the discussion is inherently invalid, rather than engaging with it honestly. But it is always the way with things like immigration.

[QE Harold Flair]

At what point does a 'bigot' become a person legitimately concerned by these rapists and cultural fuckwits? I'm glad you brought up immigration, because 10+ years ago I was derided by many of the left here as racist and bigoted for saying simply that there were too many coming in. The view now taken as completely legitimate by virtually every party. It takes time, but reality has to dawn on people eventually. By the time it does, it's often too late.

[Boydy]

You just use your 'concern' as a cover for your racism. Being genuinely concerned but not a bigot would involve not being a massive fucking racist.

[QE Harold Flair]

You just use your 'concern' as a cover for your racism. Being genuinely concerned but not a bigot would involve not being a massive fucking racist.

You're just a paedophile. You just use your 'concern' as a cover for liking kids, you do.

Now that's out of the way, shall we get back on topic?

[Boydy]

Except I've not posted about fucking kids whereas you very much have posted racial slurs.

[QE Harold Flair]

Except I've not posted about fucking kids whereas you very much have posted racial slurs.

Such as? If you're talking about the fuge then I'll await you dismissing all of Lewis' views accordingly.

[Boydy]

There and you've done it here too since you're often warned for racism. What was it you were calling Arabs recently that you got warned for?

Lewis is a racist too, yes. But at least he'd admit that.

[QE Harold Flair]

There and you've done it here too since you're often warned for racism. What was it you were calling Arabs recently that you got warned for?

Lewis is a racist too, yes. But at least he'd admit that.

As has Lewis. Both wrongly. I believe I said the Arab rapists came from a retarded culture. I absolutely stand by that. Maybe you might find 'retarded' too much for your sensitive soul to take. So let's say 'backwards'.

And that's great, so why have I never seen you smear him and attempt to silence him because of that?

[The Merse]

The very reason for the existence of the leftie ignorance acknowledged perfectly by Igor is, in my opinion, due to the way that the likes of Harold seize upon these issues and the direction they seek to drive the debate towards.

This does require discussion and action. I've struggled to express an opinion so far offline to be honest, other than to condemn what happened and state impotently that's it's a genuine issue for Germany and one which other European countries should be observing. Which is like asserting that pigeons occasionally shit on people. Bit of a struggle this one.

[The Merse]

As has Lewis. Both wrongly. I believe I said the Arab rapists came from a retarded culture. I absolutely stand by that. Maybe you might find 'retarded' too much for your sensitive soul to take. So let's say 'backwards'.

And that's great, so why have I never seen you smear him and attempt to silence him because of that?

Lewis is an intelligent poster with a better grasp of objectivity than most, perhaps?

Regardless of the general quality of posting and humour that would also endear him and lend itself to a more positive/forgiving outlook from his peers.

[QE Harold Flair]

The very reason for the existence of the leftie ignorance acknowledged perfectly by Igor is, in my opinion, due to the way that the likes of Harold seize upon these issues and the direction they seek to drive the debate towards.

This does require discussion and action. I've struggled to express an opinion so far offline to be honest, other than to condemn what happened and state impotently that's it's a genuine issue for Germany and one which other European countries should be observing. Which is like asserting that pigeons occasionally shit on people. Bit of a struggle this one.

Damn right I will seize on it. You know, when you are smeared for telling the truth and holding letitimate views, it does make you a little more vitriolic when what you say comes to pass.

[QE Harold Flair]

Lewis is an intelligent poster with a better grasp of objectivity than most, perhaps?

Regardless of the general quality of posting and humour that would also endear him and lend itself to a more positive/forgiving outlook from his peers.

I'm not looking for forgiveness. I've done nothing wrong. And neither has he, actually.

[The Merse]

Damn right I will seize on it. You know, when you are smeared for telling the truth and holding letitimate views, it does make you a little more vitriolic when what you say comes to pass.

I actually understand that.

But it really, really doesn't help.

[The Merse]

I'm not looking for forgiveness. I've done nothing wrong. And neither has he, actually.

I think you know what I mean by 'forgiving '. Maybe 'tolerant' is closer to the mark.

[QE Harold Flair]

I think you know what I mean by 'forgiving '. Maybe 'tolerant' is closer to the mark.

Yes, perhaps that's human nature. It's a shame though since people ought to be judged by what they say rather than the way it's perceived as being said.

Now if you'll excuse me I'm going for a cup of tea and a chocolate frog.

[Boydy]

What's a chocolate frog?

[Disco]

Like a Freddo?

[Chrissy]

Hey if anything we have all at least agreed we can't stand Laurie Penny.

[Lewis]

I consider my 'racism' to be pretty clever.

[Boydy]

It's like Enoch Powell to Harold's Tommy Robinson.

[Toby]

You made no attemtpt to answer my question. Have another go.

I did. I agree with her point that the people she describes - a description that fits you quite well - do not care about rape by white people/non-immigrants to the same extent they do when discussing cases involving migrants.


I think we might succeed in the case of hundreds of witnesses being present. I certainly don't think we would invite them over to see our female family members.

We being the UK in comparison to where?


She really is. She's at best accused Charlie Hebdo of 'racist trolling'. Which is as ill-informed as you could possibly get since they are/were a left wing, anti-racist publication. So she's either stupid or knowingly lieing.

They produce comics that on face value are pretty racist. They say they do so to satirise actual racists, but that nuance didn't come across when a lot of "Je Suis Charlie" plebs started reusing them (and creating their own tributes) after the attacks - which is what she appears to be responding to.



And yes, the point is that saying I have an 'agenda' is pointless, because so do you. And anyone else who speaks from their own perspective on the matter.

I didn't just say 'you have an agenda', I said I can understand feminists pushing back against you and people like you co-opting feminist arguments to suit your agenda.


To argue that the very fact rapes are and have been committed by non-immigrants means there aren't legitimate grounds for a honest discussion on the potential role different cultural norms have had on these recent attacks is not.

Agreed.

[QE Harold Flair]

It's like Enoch Powell to Harold's Tommy Robinson.

Yes, establishment vs man of the people.

[QE Harold Flair]

I did. I agree with her point that the people she describes - a description that fits you quite well - do not care about rape by white people/non-immigrants to the same extent they do when discussing cases involving migrants.

Except I do. And if it wre the case that hundreds of white Christians were mass raping then I would equally have posted as I did about them. But they aren't, and won't be any times soon. You need to wake up.



We being the UK in comparison to where?

In comparison to where these scumbags are coming from, obviously.




They produce comics that on face value are pretty racist. They say they do so to satirise actual racists, but that nuance didn't come across when a lot of "Je Suis Charlie" plebs started reusing them (and creating their own tributes) after the attacks - which is what she appears to be responding to.

Yes, if you have no idea what lampooning is. They do it to everyone, and all races/backgrounds. Maube they're racist against themselves, eh? Of course they got more attention after the attacks - they were barely known beforehand. A proper journalist would have known this, of course.



I didn't just say 'you have an agenda', I said I can understand feminists pushing back against you and people like you co-opting feminist arguments to suit your agenda.

Again, my 'agenda' (otherwise known as my perspective, which everyone else has) is bourne out of my disdain for what lieing tramps like Penny have said and done before.

[Lewis]

Enoch 'Establishment' Powell.

[Boydy]

:D

Proper establishment figure.

[Toby]

Yes, if you have no idea what lampooning is. They do it to everyone, and all races/backgrounds. Maube they're racist against themselves, eh? Of course they got more attention after the attacks - they were barely known beforehand. A proper journalist would have known this, of course.

As many of those jumping on the 'Je Suis Charlie' bandwagon appeared not to. As I clearly said, what she wrote appeared to me as more of a reaction to that than to Charlie Hebdo's own work.

If I'm wrong, fine. I'm not Laurie Penny and I'm not here to defend everything she has ever written, some of which is definitely bollocks.


Again, my 'agenda' (otherwise known as my perspective, which everyone else has) is bourne out of my disdain for what lieing tramps like Penny have said and done before.

Your views on immigration are borne out of disdain for people like Penny? Jings, she really must be terrible.

[QE Harold Flair]

:D

Proper establishment figure.

Yes, a member of parliament as opposed to a street organiser.

[QE Harold Flair]

As many of those jumping on the 'Je Suis Charlie' bandwagon appeared not to. As I clearly said, what she wrote appeared to me as more of a reaction to that than to Charlie Hebdo's own work.

Nonsense. She couldn't have made it more clear if she tried.


If I'm wrong, fine. I'm not Laurie Penny and I'm not here to defend everything she has ever written, some of which is definitely bollocks.

Good, because you would be here a fucking ling time.



Your views on immigration are borne out of disdain for people like Penny? Jings, she really must be terrible.

No, my views on feminism and victimhood cunts like her. Or rather, modern feminism.

[Toby]

No, my views on feminism and victimhood cunts like her. Or rather, modern feminism.

Great. That has fuck all to do with the agenda I was referring to.

[QE Harold Flair]

Great. That has fuck all to do with the agenda I was referring to.

Yes, it does. You claimed I was 'co-opting feminst arguments'. The sort feminism she displays is a key reason she wants to equate these rapes with what we already see here and to defend immigration on the basis that 'well, everywhere has rapists....'. I will not have such lies. And if you want further evidence of her deception, then I invite you to read this. I wouldn't use anything she's written if I were you.

https://j4mb.wordpress.com/2014/03/28/my-public-challenge-of-laurie-penny-a-sexist-racist-feminist-journalist/


Life doesn’t get much better for me than when I’m demonstrably misrepresented by prominent gender feminists. I was (erroneously) branded a liar – twice – by Julie Bindel in the course of my talk in the Durham University debate. It’s a memory I’ll treasure to the end of my days. A supporter has just drawn my attention to a piece written by Laurie Penny for the New Statesman, published online three days ago:
http://www.newstatesman.com/laurie-penny/2014/03/laurie-penny-what-drives-men-who-think-feminists-are-plotting-%E2%80%9Cwhite-genocide%E2%80%9D
The article appeared originally in the print edition, published 21 March.
I met Ms Penny sometime around Xmas. She’d contacted me while I was staying with friends in London, requesting an interview. When we met, I proffered my hand to shake hers, as is my custom. She visibly flinched but shook it anyway, as she had on the only previous occasion I’d met her, when she’d sat next to me on a bench at Covent Garden tube station. Initially I’d mistaken her for Kat Banyard, another gender feminist ray of sunshine, to whom J4MB presented the following award today:
140329 Inaugural Lying Woman of the Month award certificate – Kat Banyard (https://j4mb.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/140329-inaugural-lying-woman-of-the-month-award-certificate-kat-banyard1.pdf)
We had a coffee – she paid, I didn’t want to be accused in her article of ‘benevolent sexism’ – at a coffee shop of her choosing in London. I’d politely declined her earlier suggestion of meeting in a public house in Soho.
I was carrying a suitcase because I’d stayed the previous evening at a friend’s place in London, and was due to spend that evening at another friend’s place in London, before returning home the next day. My only reason for relating these mind-numbingly boring details is that they relate to areas in which Laurie Penny misrepresented me in her article, in the first of the following paragraphs:

Some months ago, in a nondescript London coffee shop, I met Mike Buchanan, a “men’s rights” activist and the leader of the small, single-issue party Justice for Men and Boys. The former procurement worker, in his mid-fifties, was dragging a suitcase – he described himself as between homes and without a stable job and was moving from one friend’s sofa to another’s that day. It was only a few years ago, when he was looking for work and “a huge woman” turned him down for a job in public-sector procurement, that Buchanan realised that women had too much power.
“I think men are trashed, as you go down the social scale,” was one of the first things he told me. “As you go down the social scale, men are totally disposable. A man on the minimum wage – what chance does he have?”


Now, what’s inaccurate in just one paragraph?

Far from being a ‘single issue’ party, we’re making proposals in 20 areas. Our public consultation document detailing those areas is downloadable from the menu.
The ‘job in public-sector procurement’ was a consulting assignment, as I explained to Ms. Penny.
‘… he described himself as between homes…’. No, I didn’t. I explained I’d stayed overnight with a friend in London (where I don’t live).
‘… he described himself as… moving from one friend’s sofa to another’s that day…’. I said I was staying overnight with another London-based friend that evening.
‘…he described himself as… without a stable job…’. No, I didn’t. I retired about four years ago from business consulting, and haven’t sought work since. I’ve been offered a number of well-paid consulting assignments over that period, and turned them all down.


Far more important than matters relating to me, however, is Laurie Penny’s conflation of men’s human rights with issues of race. Not once have I ever spoken or written about race during my advocacy of men’s and boys’ human rights. Penny appears to be presenting advocates of men’s human rights as racist, when they’re decidedly not. ‘A Voice for Men’ http://avoiceformen.com has published plenty of articles, videos etc. from non-white men, and continues to do so. A recent example is SparkyFister’s series on ‘I need feminism because…’. The eighth piece in the series:
http://www.avoiceformen.com/updates/i-need-feminism-mansplained-part-8/
Penny is using a favourite tactic of hate-driven gender feminists, in a bid to pit men against one another along race lines. The tactic is both cynical and racist, and it’s rapidly becoming ineffective. But then all feminist tactics are rapidly become ineffective, pleasingly. Does she know how utterly ridiculous her analyses appear to people capable of thinking for themselves?
Shortly after I post this piece, I’ll be emailing Ms Penny a link to it. My public challenge to her:

Your recent New Statesman piece appears to suggest I’m homeless – is that what you meant by ‘between homes’? – and jobless, while I’m neither. I have a home, I’m living off my company pensions, and I haven’t once sought employment for the past four years. I challenge you to substantiate your assertions by 5pm next Thursday, 3 April, or publicly retract them, and apologise accordingly. Feel free to retract them and apologise by sending me an email mike@j4mb.org.uk and I’ll make the apology public on your behalf. If I don’t receive a retraction and an apology by the deadline – which is surely a racing certainty – I’ll add this to our long list of unanswered public challenges of prominent feminists.
I shall also be considering legal action on the grounds of defamation, and possibly other grounds.

Have a nice weekend.

[Toby]

Yes, it does. You claimed I was 'co-opting feminst arguments'. The sort feminism she displays is a key reason she wants to equate these rapes with what we already see here and to defend immigration on the basis that 'well, everywhere has rapists....'. I will not have such lies. And if you want further evidence of her deception, then I invite you to read this. I wouldn't use anything she's written if I were you.


She didn't equate them. She's doing what other feminists are doing and trying to shift the public discussion away from immigration and back towards women's rights because - shock horror - that's sort of a big interest for feminists.

Remember back a few pages when we started talking about this that it was because you claimed feminists weren't talking about what happened in Cologne? The entire point of posting it was that, yes, a high-profile feminist author had written about it and had decried it as terrible. She wasn't equating it to any other rape, but you wouldn't know that, because you didn't read it.

I couldn't give a fuck what else she has written. Take your ad-hominem shite and cake the walls with it you stupid bastard.

[Lewis]

It's hard to think of a less Establishment-friendly right-winger than Powell.

[QE Harold Flair]

He's establishment compared to Robinson, and certainly not the working class hero.

[QE Harold Flair]

She didn't equate them. She's doing what other feminists are doing and trying to shift the public discussion away from immigration and back towards women's rights because - shock horror - that's sort of a big interest for feminists.

Yes, and she's doing that by downplaying this as nothing worse than what happens here.


Remember back a few pages when we started talking about this that it was because you claimed feminists weren't talking about what happened in Cologne? The entire point of posting it was that, yes, a high-profile feminist author had written about it and had decried it as terrible. She wasn't equating it to any other rape, but you wouldn't know that, because you didn't read it.

Well, she's talking about it in the same tone as Jess Phillips. They will never just come out and tell it as it is - it's always 'this is bad but'. I read the first paragraph and the tone was clear. I don't tend to read what proven frauds and liars have to say.


I couldn't give a fuck what else she has written. Take your ad-hominem shite and cake the walls with it you stupid bastard.

So you don't care about integrity? You seem to care quite a lot about what I have previously written. Of courser as the grown up here I won't resort to calling you names like we were in a playground.

[Toby]

Yes, and she's doing that by downplaying this as nothing worse than what happens here.

She isn't.


Well, she's talking about it in the same tone as Jess Phillips.

She isn't.


So you don't care about integrity? You seem to care quite a lot about what I have previously written.

On this issue I couldn't give even the slightest shit. I care about what you've said previously if it highlights you being inconsistent or hypocritical, which doesn't apply here.

[Lewis]

He's establishment compared to Robinson, and certainly not the working class hero.

Then everybody you like other than Tommy Robinson is part of the Establishment.

[QE Harold Flair]

She isn't.

Yes, she is. By taking this clearly verifiable incident and making it about the 'racists' who point out legitimately, why this mass rapong is happening. It's making excuses. Remember this is the same woman who got emotional about a nerdy scientist wearing a shirt with scantily clad women on it. Priorities.


She isn't.

She certainly is. It's all about deflection. 'It's bad but'. No, there's no 'but'.




On this issue I couldn't give even the slightest shit. I care about what you've said previously if it highlights you being inconsistent or hypocritical, which doesn't apply here.

I think the background and history of someone is important if you want to make a solid argument. Like I said, no matter how good a case Nick Griffin makes you would never use an article he posted, or take it seriously if I did. Well, that's how I feel about proven liar and fraud, Laurie Penny.


'Some people are using the stories of abused children in Rotherham to condemn individuals they dislike on the left. To me that is abhorrent.'

Deflect! Deflect! Another gem from the persistent victim.

A quite excellent investigation into feminists and Islamic reape:

http://www.dangerandplay.com/2016/01/31/cognitive-dissonance-richard-dawkins-the-feminist-edition/

[QE Harold Flair]

Then everybody you like other than Tommy Robinson is part of the Establishment.

Not everybody. Most people I like are not members of parliament.

[QE Harold Flair]

http://i0.wp.com/www.dangerandplay.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Cologne-rape.jpg?resize=628%2C828

[Toby]

She certainly is. It's all about deflection. 'It's bad but'. No, there's no 'but'.

There's no "this is bad but", but I suppose it could probably be called 'deflection' from talk of immigration to talk of women's rights.


I think the background and history of someone is important if you want to make a solid argument. Like I said, no matter how good a case Nick Griffin makes you would never use an article he posted, or take it seriously if I did. Well, that's how I feel about proven liar and fraud, Laurie Penny.

If he made a coherent argument on a relevant topic I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand. I've never seen him do that though, because he's not all that bright.

[QE Harold Flair]

There's no "this is bad but", but I suppose it could probably be called 'deflection' from talk of immigration to talk of women's rights.

Well they're a bit bound up now, don't you think?


If he made a coherent argument on a relevant topic I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand. I've never seen him do that though, because he's not all that bright.

Like fuck you wouldn't. You big liar.

[Toby]

Well they're a bit bound up now, don't you think?

No.


Like fuck you wouldn't. You big liar.

I wouldn't go out of my way to read it, no. But if somebody else said, "Nick Griffin has actually done a good piece on this" I'd at least read it. Although maybe not if it was you sharing, since that wouldn't really suggest any change from his usual.

[Jimmy Floyd]

His usual? Does he a churn out 1,000 word polemics for the Independent on Sunday that I've missed?

[Toby]

Well, there we see what a silly hypothetical it is.

[Lewis]

Not everybody. Most people I like are not members of parliament.

Being a Member of Parliament (or of the European Parliament) has nothing to do with it. Somebody like Douglas Murray (say), with all his political and media connections, is more a part of the current Establishment than Powell ever was.

[Toby]

Here's another good piece, based on an interview with feminists who are not Laurie Penny: http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/german-feminists-debate-cologne-attacks-a-1072806.html

[QE Harold Flair]

I wouldn't go out of my way to read it, no. But if somebody else said, "Nick Griffin has actually done a good piece on this" I'd at least read it. Although maybe not if it was you sharing, since that wouldn't really suggest any change from his usual.

Orly? So if I posted a Nick Griffin article here about immigration you wouldn't throw a ':D' and you would simply read it without taking your views on his past into account? Non. Sense.

[Toby]

Orly? So if I posted a Nick Griffin article here about immigration you wouldn't throw a ':D' and you would simply read it without taking your views on his past into account? Non. Sense.

Like I said, if it was you (and if the topic was immigration), it probably would be different, yes.

[QE Harold Flair]

No.

So you se no conflict between those coming from war-tiorn societies with appalling women's rights and appalling views of women in general, and the possible repurcussions for women here? If you're that blinded by political correctness then what's there to say?

[QE Harold Flair]

Being a Member of Parliament (or of the European Parliament) has nothing to do with it. Somebody like Douglas Murray (say), with all his political and media connections, is more a part of the current Establishment than Powell ever was.

It has everything to do with it. Murray hasn't been voted in to an upper class boys club. His political and media connections, such as they are, have been earned.

[Toby]

So you se no conflict between those coming from war-tiorn societies with appalling women's rights and appalling views of women in general, and the possible repurcussions for women here? If you're that blinded by political correctness then what's there to say?

I think it's something that has to be taken into account in helping them settle once they're here, but I don't think you can stand at the border turning away anybody you think could maybe possibly one day be a sex pest.

Therefore I think discussions about sexual violence are more important than those about immigration.

[QE Harold Flair]

Here's another good piece, based on an interview with feminists who are not Laurie Penny: http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/german-feminists-debate-cologne-attacks-a-1072806.html

Yet again focusing their 'outrage' everywhere but where it belongs.

[QE Harold Flair]

I think it's something that has to be taken into account in helping them settle once they're here, but I don't think you can stand at the border turning away anybody you think could maybe possibly one day be a sex pest.

Therefore I think discussions about sexual violence are more important than those about immigration.

Taken into account. Oh, that's nice. How shall we do that? So you admit 'no' was the wrong answer now? Let's face it, the chance of these people being sex pests seems to be considerably higher than the natives. The blood will be on your hands. The borders should be closed to anyone who isn't a legitimate refugee or has no skills to bring here. Simple as that.

[Boydy]

Eton College educated Douglas Murray's connections have been earned.

:lol:

[Toby]

Taken into account. Oh, that's nice. How shall we do that? So you admit 'no' was the wrong answer now? Let's face it, the chance of these people being sex pests seems to be considerably higher than the natives. The blood will be on your hands.

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/abed-thumbs-up.gif

[QE Harold Flair]

I'll take that as a tacit admission.

[Toby]

Just acceptance that we've reached a topic on which there is no point in further discussion. Your mind is made up and your points have been made many times over, so making them again with added hysteria isn't really worth anybody's time.

[QE Harold Flair]

Explain where this 'hysteria' took place? you're the one who keeps having to change your mind because I point out your inconsistency.

[Shindig]

Rapefugee. Thanks. Now The Fugee's 'Ready or Not' has been ruined for me.

[Toby]

Explain where this 'hysteria' took place?

"The blood will be on your hands" is about as hysterical as it gets.

[QE Harold Flair]

That's perfectly fair. It will be the attitude and avoidance of the subject from people like you that will lead to more of the same.

[Toby]

I'm not avoiding the subject, I'm avoiding you.

[QE Harold Flair]

You're not very good at it.

[Lewis]

It has everything to do with it. Murray hasn't been voted in to an upper class boys club. His political and media connections, such as they are, have been earned.

It tends to be understood as Henry Fairlie defined it, which is the 'whole matrix of official and social relations within which power is exercised'. Murray is in with well-known politicians through the Henry Jackson Society, and he is the go-to person when the BBC and other Establishment media organs need a particular point of view (which is often rather pro-Establishment). It's not about whether your status has been 'earned' (read a bit about Powell before making that contrast seriously). It's about how you use it.

[QE Harold Flair]

Most politicians are absolutely against The Henry Jackson Society. Murray is seen as an extreme right wing, neo con. Hardly establishment. Of course the BBC and others roll him out whenever there's some Muslim atrocity, because they have to pretend to be balanced.

[QE Harold Flair]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLaScYB0-E4

Notice how loving and tolerant the feminists are from 3:30 on in this vid. Just the usual shrieking and non-listening (and threats of violence/criminal damage). Almost the perfect Question Time audience members.

[Toby]

Yes, the 'protesters' there are idiots.

lol at the 18 year old whinging about not having a nice and simple 'box' to fit into any more though.

[QE Harold Flair]

Is he disqualified because he's 18? What he says is largely correct. I agree that anyone that young involved in political issues tend to be a bit weird.

[Toby]

No, that was just the best descriptor because I didn't catch his name. It would have been funny had anybody said it.

[Lewis]

Most politicians are absolutely against The Henry Jackson Society. Murray is seen as an extreme right wing, neo con. Hardly establishment. Of course the BBC and others roll him out whenever there's some Muslim atrocity, because they have to pretend to be balanced.

Its Statement of Principles is a perfect conception of Establishment thinking on foreign policy (Powell would have lolled them out the door), and between its initial signatories and its current advisory councils (not to mention well-known sympathisers like George Osborne) it has links to half of the current political and policy-making elite. It was founded as an Establishment think tank, and it survives as one.

[QE Harold Flair]

Its Statement of Principles is a perfect conception of Establishment thinking on foreign policy (Powell would have lolled them out the door), and between its initial signatories and its current advisory councils (not to mention well-known sympathisers like George Osborne) it has links to half of the current political and policy-making elite. It was founded as an Establishment think tank, and it survives as one.

What's an 'establishment think tank'? They have no political affiliation.

[QE Harold Flair]

https://cdn.liveleak.com/80281E/ll_a_s/2016/Feb/2/LiveLeak-dot-com-ca0_1454455425-2014-03-18-ad21dc9b_1454455430.jpg.resized.jpg?d5e8cc8eccfb60 39332f41f6249e92b06c91b4db65f5e99818bdd2924942dfd3 0d22&ec_rate=230

[Toby]

That would be bad enough were it remotely relevant.

[QE Harold Flair]

It was too good to miss the oportunity.

[Pepe]

The state of that image. :D

[Lewis]

What's an 'establishment think tank'? They have no political affiliation.

One that derives its financial and political backing from Establishment figures and reflects their policy preferences. Policy Exchange, Demos, Progress, Reform...

[ItalAussie]

Top thread posters:

QE Harold Flair Posts 129
Toby Posts 35
Lewis Posts 29
GS Posts 14

I think you're wasted on us, Haz Baz.

[QE Harold Flair]

Top thread posters:

QE Harold Flair Posts 129
Toby Posts 35
Lewis Posts 29
GS Posts 14

I think you're wasted on us, Haz Baz.

Stop derailing the thread.

[QE Harold Flair]

One that derives its financial and political backing from Establishment figures and reflects their policy preferences. Policy Exchange, Demos, Progress, Reform...

Whoch establishment figures? Here are their patrons - http://henryjacksonsociety.org/about-the-society/international-patrons-2/

[Lewis]

http://henryjacksonsociety.org/about-the-society/signatories-to-the-statement-of-principles/
http://henryjacksonsociety.org/people/council-members/

Those Establishment figures. It's like a who's who of Blairite/Cameroon greasers.

[QE Harold Flair]

You barely recognise a name on there.

[Toby]

Where would Powell have differed on foreign policy Lewis? Non-rhetorical question as I know very little about him. Was he just for letting other countries get on with it?

[Lewis]

Pretty much. Plus he didn't like America (or Americans), so he figured they were against us in 1943 and stuck with it.

[Pavel]

I dunno, the Guardian ran that story about the DWP sending out a "Not ill enough" letter to a woman who was having her life support pulled. Pavel slapped that in his facebook feed going, "SEE!? THE SYSTEM FAILS!!" Extra daft considering the claimants are like, "Well, I know we lacked evidence but our GP is like... hard to get a hold of erm... "

Considering I used to work for the DSS, and have worked front-line - I can tell you with experience that ten years' ago the system didn't work properly, and if it has been cut back (as it has) now - yes, the system most certainly is failing; and on purpose too through lack of administration and funding.

Also, are you just stalking me on Facebook?

Creep.

At least if you're going to do that, say hello' once in a while.

[Shindig]

"Hey that system over there is failing. Must be on purpose."

I'll agree on funding and administration being the issue, mind. When the Tories decided to restructure the benefits system they (and the DWP, to that extent) grossly underestimated the time, effort and sheer manpower required to make this work. And if money wasn't an issue in the first place, they wouldn't outsource.

[QE Harold Flair]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcwzULfWMe4&list=PLcTV_gWeVXhas58xE2iux4OR P8DGnw99V


Good morrow one and all. Join myself, Tobes and Henry around the campfire for this excellent video.

[QE Harold Flair]

Choose your news sources carefully.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=0e4_1455693055

[Boydy]

Infowars.com

[phonics]

Infowars.com

And Drudge.

[QE Harold Flair]

https://cdn.liveleak.com/80281E/ll_a_s/2016/Feb/22/LiveLeak-dot-com-300_1456140634-LL_unaccompaniedchildrefugeeSwedishChild_145614655 6.jpg.resized.jpg?d5e8cc8eccfb6039332f41f6249e92b0 6c91b4db65f5e99818bdd2904c40d2d4a645&ec_rate=230

[Toby]

Unless the automatic translation here is a million miles off, he's the President of a campaign group and does not claim to be a child.

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=410354365825123&id=180164492177446

[QE Harold Flair]

Another example of Swedish journalists' ineptitude in distinguishing children from adults comes from the daily, Kristianstadsbladet. In 2012, the paper told the story (https://janmilld.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/14ar.jpg) of "the fastest 14-year-old in Sweden," Saad Alsaud, reported to hold the record in the 100-meter dash for Swedish 14-year-olds (11.82 seconds). In the picture, you can see the "14-year-old" running with actual children around 10 years of age -- except he looks more as if he is their father than a few years older than them.

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/pics/large/1167.jpg


:happycry:

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/6190/sweden-refugee-children

[Toby]

Again, that seems like it's most likely bullshit. The original Swedish article appears to say something along the lines of him being there to inspire and motivate the children. It calls him 'Sweden's Fastest 14 Year Old', but it doesn't say he is fourteen at the time of the photo. Even your article words it as, "reported to hold the record in the 100-meter dash for Swedish 14-year-olds" which would suggest to me he set the record at 14 and it hasn't been beaten.

[QE Harold Flair]

Again, that seems like it's most likely bullshit. The original Swedish article appears to say something along the lines of him being there to inspire and motivate the children. It calls him 'Sweden's Fastest 14 Year Old', but it doesn't say he is fourteen at the time of the photo. Even your article words it as, "reported to hold the record in the 100-meter dash for Swedish 14-year-olds" which would suggest to me he set the record at 14 and it hasn't been beaten.


That was from 2011 - how likely do you think it is that Sweden's fastest 14 year old would be living off of that accalim years later?

Oh, and:


All jest aside, this is of course absurd. The other Nordic countries also saw the rise in “children” knocking on their doors, and did the sensible thing: had their doctors run a simple age test by measuring bones and/or checking teeth. In Denmark, 3 out of 4 “children” arriving the first months of 2012 turned out to be adults (http://www.svd.se/opinion/ledarsidan/hur-manga-ensamkommande-barn-ar-vuxna_3981601.svd). Norway got the same results; 3 out of 4 (http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/1.11138547). Finland “only” turned out to have 65% frauds, but still took the cake by having a 29-year old posing as a minor (http://yle.fi/uutiset/alaikaisten_turvapaikanhakijoiden_tulva_tyrehtyi/1342895).

http://swedenreport.org/2015/04/14/sacrificing-1000-to-save-1/

[Toby]

It's hardly "living off the acclaim" to be asked by a school to help at sports day and subsequently have a feature in a regional newspaper. Christ. That certainly seems a damn sight more plausible than whatever sketchy claim there may be that people believed he was a 14 year old at the time of the photo.

There may well be an issue with refugees claiming to be minors to receive better treatment but so far you've given two terrible examples of it supposedly in action.

[QE Harold Flair]

You're just guessing, aren't you? I have found nowhere which refutes that as being him at or around the age of 14 (and it's been widely reported). There was a site where it had the link to the full, original article. Presumably that confirmed him as being 14 or it wouldn't have been linked. It's not there any more, of course.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/01/29/00/30AB376D00000578-0-image-a-21_1454027877408.jpg


The '15 year old' who murdered the unveiled Swedish woman.

[Toby]

There's nothing to explicitly refute it other than common sense, no. There's also nothing to confirm it, since "reported to hold the record in the 100-meter dash for Swedish 14-year-olds" does not in any way mean "pictured here at 14 years old". The first one you posted was definitely bullshit so I'll err on the side of scepticism for now. If there's a link to the full original article perhaps Bernanke or Mazuuurk could have a look for us - I only saw a screenshot of the front page.

[John Arne]

How many men pretending to be children would it take you to close the borders to real children?

@Harry, obvs.

[QE Harold Flair]

There's nothing to explicitly refute it other than common sense, no.

The lefytist Swedish press do not care about 'common sense'.


There's also nothing to confirm it, since "reported to hold the record in the 100-meter dash for Swedish 14-year-olds" does not in any way mean "pictured here at 14 years old". The first one you posted was definitely bullshit so I'll err on the side of scepticism for now. If there's a link to the full original article perhaps @Bernanke (http://www.thethirdhalf.co.uk/member.php?u=64) or @Mazuuurk (http://www.thethirdhalf.co.uk/member.php?u=11) could have a look for us - I only saw a screenshot of the front page

It was from a local paper - they obviously don't keep records going back that far. But reports at the time claimed they were marvelling at the speed of the 14 year old. Still, it's all probably just a big lie by racist bigots. That's common sense.

[QE Harold Flair]

How many men pretending to be children would it take you to close the borders to real children?

@Harry, obvs.

I've never even intimated that I advocate such a thing. However, we have no obligation to take any unless this is the first safe place they arrive. And that is a fact.

[John Arne]

You most certainly have been insinuating such a thing.

[Toby]

Why wouldn't they keep records? Most sports associations could tell you local record holders going back decades. It could be his old school, and he could just be known to the staff. Neither of us know, so it makes sense to at least question the source rather than jump the gun as you did with the Zia Safari claim.

[QE Harold Flair]

You most certainly have been insinuating such a thing.

To a complete idiot, maybe. If drawing attention to such a case causes you to think that therefor I don't think any children should be allowed then you're a fucking idiot.

[QE Harold Flair]

Why wouldn't they keep records? Most sports associations could tell you local record holders going back decades. It could be his old school, and he could just be known to the staff. Neither of us know, so it makes sense to at least question the source rather than jump the gun as you did with the Zia Safari claim.

It's not all that important in the grand scheme of things - we know that well over 50% in other countries have been false.

[John Arne]

To a complete idiot, maybe. If drawing attention to such a case causes you to think that therefor I don't think any children should be allowed then you're a fucking idiot.

Owww, touchy.

[phonics]

The lefty Swedish press like Harold has ever read a Swedish newspaper or even knows someone from Sweden to corroborate his opinion on Swedish media. IIRC, the biggest newspaper in Sweden is Aftonbladet which is just your everyday tabloid rag.

[QE Harold Flair]

The lefty Swedish press like Harold has ever read a Swedish newspaper or even knows someone from Sweden to corroborate his opinion on Swedish media. IIRC, the biggest newspaper in Sweden is Aftonbladet which is just your everyday tabloid rag.

Nope, but what I do know is that they cover up the rapes of Immigrants and 'refugees'. That's a fact. And that seems to be a common trait amongst the left, where they're from.

[Lewis]

There's nothing to explicitly refute it other than common sense, no. There's also nothing to confirm it, since "reported to hold the record in the 100-meter dash for Swedish 14-year-olds" does not in any way mean "pictured here at 14 years old". The first one you posted was definitely bullshit so I'll err on the side of scepticism for now. If there's a link to the full original article perhaps Bernanke or Mazuuurk could have a look for us - I only saw a screenshot of the front page.

Appealing for back-up, lol (such a great thread (http://www.thedugout.net/community/showthread.php?t=94150)).

[phonics]

Nope, but what I do know is that they cover up the rapes of Immigrants and 'refugees'. That's a fact. And that seems to be a common trait amongst the left, where they're from.

The only person on this forum (as I'm now getting to the point I think that we're genuinely the only people in the world, online and offline, you interact with) that has a history of defending rapists is you...

[QE Harold Flair]

The only person on this forum (as I'm now getting to the point I think that we're genuinely the only people in the world, online and offline, you interact with) that has a history of defending rapists is you...

I have defended one convicted rapist, where I believe the evidence is too flimsy. Most people defend rapists in a more cowardly fashion, by pretending that a real rape culture from certain demographics does not exist.

[phonics]

Typical right-wing libero facist men of the people behavior defending rapists and those convicted of assault. Absolutely typical.

[QE Harold Flair]

Typical right-wing libero facist men of the people behavior defending rapists and those convicted of assault. Absolutely typical.

I don't recall defending anyone convicted of assault? In any case, you're not interested in an honest exchange of views, so move along.

[phonics]

I don't recall defending anyone convicted of assault? In any case, you're not interested in an honest exchange of views, so move along.

Umm,

http://images.dailystar.co.uk/dynamic/1/photos/659000/620x/37659.jpg

Harold, you haven't been interested in an honest exchange of views (and have repeatedly stated so) for about a decade. I'm just at the point of engaging on your level and you're somehow still getting shown up.

[QE Harold Flair]

Well I wasn't defending his assault....I thought you left wingers were all in favour of reform? It's interesting how this man was decried as a racist and bigot for exposing what actually came to light a few years later in Rotherham. Where's his apology? The smearing works, you see. It's forgotten that he was dead right but the smearing has done its job.

And how do you draw that conclusion? I'm not sure how I'm 'getting shown up'.

[Mazuuurk]

There's nothing to explicitly refute it other than common sense, no. There's also nothing to confirm it, since "reported to hold the record in the 100-meter dash for Swedish 14-year-olds" does not in any way mean "pictured here at 14 years old". The first one you posted was definitely bullshit so I'll err on the side of scepticism for now. If there's a link to the full original article perhaps Bernanke or Mazuuurk could have a look for us - I only saw a screenshot of the front page.


The lefytist Swedish press do not care about 'common sense'.

It was from a local paper - they obviously don't keep records going back that far. But reports at the time claimed they were marvelling at the speed of the 14 year old. Still, it's all probably just a big lie by racist bigots. That's common sense.


First of all, the paper in question, Kristiansbladet, claims to be simply "Liberal" in their political views. By anything other than Swedish standards though, what we consider "Liberal" is often considered quite left-wing in other countries.

As for the article, I searched for the title in Swedish and found an old thread on a forum reciting it: it's indeed like Toby says, there's nothing in the text that indicated that this dude was 14 at the time of doing this running/charity event at the school, he was there as some sort of inspirational figure (I assume that holding the 100m record for 14-year-olds when you're not 14 anymore is only cool to people who are actually only 14...).