The Ultimate WWE Thread

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I think McIntyre could be a good heel if they properly lean into it. He's a solid talker but he's not so charismatic that the crowd would just automatically refuse to boo him or insist on cheering him, he doesn't have catchy music or a catchphrase that they'll never stop parrotting and he can stop the 1-2-3-Claymore thing easy enough.

You're broadly right that WWE much prefer to have a big dominant babyface to keep putting the title on, but right now they're also stymied by Reigns hogging the belt(s) because there's such a hard ceiling for any other top heels. Not that I'm sure HHH will be the guy to fix that because he was a great heel for a few years and then a very wearisome one for a very long time.

Also doesn't help that WWE crowds these days often meet heel antics (and indeed everything) with stony silence. Who actually gets proper boos currently? Gunther, Dom......... that about it?

That time when Ciampa turned heel on Gargano and would come out to do a promo but the crowd would silence him with boos before he could say anything :drool:

[Waffdon]

Owens could definitely get boos. He’s just really good at being both. I also like what they’re doing with McIntyre at the minute - he’s not claiming to be a bad guy and he’s actually playing a ‘smart’ character. He only has an issue with The Bloodline and Jey Uso which is fair enough. I hope they keep him as a ‘Tweener’ and he has a pay off. Hopefully taking the title off of Rollins before he and Punk feud

[wullie]

I could buy Damian Priest as a top heel, he's got everything apart from the wins.

[Ben]

Definitely, I really like him. But it remains to be seen if they want to commit enough to get him from the second level (along with McIntyre) to the top. I can't see it unfortunately.

[Ian]

Priest will be a face when he cashes in. And I do think he's slightly too cool to be properly detestable.

[Waffdon]

Just the three appearances Reigns is scheduled for before Royal Rumble. A genuine disgrace. He’s not even 40 yet.

[wullie]

The longest reigning WFH Champion of the modern era.

[Ian]

So what you're saying is his next feud should be with Jacob Rees-Mogg?

[Gray Fox]

So what you're saying is his next feud should be with Jacob Rees-Mogg?

I'm afraid he's already lost his last man standing match.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/politics/2019/09/04/TELEMMGLPICT000208315603_trans_NvBQzQNjv4Bqy95-_uD5LUTKsVUFcoNd4jDVMUtovfpXn1m21hTPv64.jpeg

[Ian]

:D

The other flaw is that if Roman was to literally stamp him into a fine red paste that'd be an instant babyface turn.

[wullie]

There's the gimmick infringement issue as well, he looks more like an undertaker than Mark Calaway ever has.

[Ian]

To be fair it's about time they added another secret brother to that family.

[Shindig]

He can walk out and say he has cancer again.

[Waffdon]

McIntyre is the absolute dogs bollocks. His character right now is just great.

His videos he posts online are great too. Has an answer to everything. The smart heel.

[Gray Fox]

YEET is also dead.

WWE tried to trademark it and found it would involve too much fucking about to obtain it. So he's not allowed to say it or wear the merch any more.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Glorious :drool:

[Ben]

Apparently some indie guy trademarked it for wrestling use when it was popular ten years ago. I thought they’d have just paid him off.

[phonics]

1732086107280449783

Incredible stuff. Tony you're paying fucking half of the wankest parts of TNA, how the walking talking sex pesting corpse is being paid for is not the issue here.

[Shindig]

What's the exchange rate on Wooooo Energy?

[Ian]

Watched some of Raw there, pretty solid episode on the whole I'd say.
- Drew is loads of fun right now and they're handling this character change perfectly and the exchange with Sami ("Do you think you're doing YOUR family proud?") was great. As was their match, but it'd be a surprise if those two had a bad one.
- DIY / Imperium was a good match but hopefully those teams are done now.
- I wish they hadn't cooled Gable right the fuck down
- Judgement Day referring to a bit of the locker room they've decorated purple as their "clubhouse" every week makes them look even dorkier than they already do whenever Rhea's not there. Loved the crowd audibly booing when Priest said Rhea's not there though. :D
- Really liked the Nakamura/Cody bit and the comparison of their "stories."
- Small thing but it makes such a difference Gunther as a heel champion that he actively seeks out challengers.
- JD vs. Creeds was solid. First time I've seen the Creeds in ages but they looked pretty smooth.
- His near-falls fell flat because there was a near-zero percent chance Jey was winning this but it's probably the best singles match he's had that wasn't more of an extended angle against Roman. He's still limited but the pace he and Rollins worked at helped make up for his lack of a proper moveset I thought, and the crowd were really into it.

[Ben]

No Rhea, no watch from me.

[Waffdon]

1732572759652503740

‘Let me confirm the WWE marks’ suggestions that we wrestle in front of no one’.

[Ben]

Small time as fuck.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Why would you even acknowledge it? It makes it so much worse because you know they actually care.

[Waffdon]

TNA partnering with WWE’s parent company. Okada is appearing for TNA next month (as is Ospreay).

Okada to WWE ��

[Shindig]

Nah, TNA want to make amends for botching his earlier run with them.

[Ben]

They’ll bring in Jeff Hardy too and have Okada do the job for him.

[Waffdon]

1733680112195846462

Best spear in the game

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

You can tell he played American football before.

[Ben]

The fuck are those rules?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

It's basically a multi-man Ironman match with a weird sin bin.

[Ben]

Sin bin? That possibly sounds like a way they can avoid the “obvious sitting around on the outside waiting for your spot” nonsense.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Sin bin? That possibly sounds like a way they can avoid the “obvious sitting around on the outside waiting for your spot” nonsense.

Yep.

[Gray Fox]

Did Regal invent it by any chance?

[Shindig]

I prefer Goldbergs but that is lovely form.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I prefer Goldbergs but that is lovely form.

1733949155133751805

He's still at it too.

[Waffdon]

Raw is very enjoyable at the minute.

Punk/Rollins might be an all timer

[Ben]

Ol' Seth has worked himself into a shoot. You can tell he actually hates Punk.

That should be a good thing though because this has already got big time energy.

[Waffdon]

The best thing about it is I have absolutely no idea who is going to win the Royal Rumble. There’s a few different people who could reasonably win it. Maybe Rollins will cost Punk or something.

In before Lesnar wins and we get Lesnar Reigns IIII at ‘mania

[Ben]

Yeah there's no way Punk needs to win it. They've already planted the seed that he's under Rollins' skin so that match will make itself anyway.

Rumble winner probably should be Cody. I know it's a repeat of last year but how else do they logically get him into the Reigns title match?

[Gray Fox]

I think they have Seth go down the Punk isn't good enough and must prove himself/you can't just walk in here and get given a title shot. Then Punk wins the rumble and uh oh now I HAVE to face him. Also keeps the heat off someone not choosing Reigns again.

Then you have that main event night 1.

[Waffdon]

He kind of hinted that he would happily face Punk though. I was surprised he mentioned having a match as my first thought was Rollins would refuse to wrestle him

[Waffdon]

Just seen the Rhea match.

She was FUMING

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I was sure that WALTER would win the Rumble (have him then win the title from Rollins and relinquish the intercontinental title) but now I'm sure it's Punk.

LA Knight would have been my second pick pre-Punk.

[Ben]

Just seen the Rhea match.

She was FUMING

Why put Maxxine's green arse in that spot? Mental.

[Ian]

Have Rollins lose the title at the Rumble in the opener, Punk jokes about it in a promo, Rollins seethes and chucks Punk out of the Rumble. They have fight at Mania (maybe Punk costs Rollins in the Chamber, tit fir tat, but not necessary. ) Punk doesn't need a Rumble win and that match doesn't need a title.

Wouldn't rule him out of a Rumble win by any means and it is nice that there are a few potential winners but it proooobably is Cody?

[Ben]

I was pretty impressed with Rollins' ability to maintain the annoying whiney drone in his voice amongst all the seethe in his promo. Hopefully Punk slaps it out of him Jungle Boy style sharpish.

[Ian]

I thought that was his best promo in a very long time. At least since the Reigns feud nearly two years ago, maybe longer than that.

And the suit. Chef kiss.

[wullie]

I like how he more or less used some of Adam Page's lines but with the different context of them actually making sense.

[Gray Fox]

Punk doesn't need a Rumble win

Wouldn't rule him out of a Rumble win by any means and it is nice that there are a few potential winners but it proooobably is Cody?

So very much this. This man doesn't need to try anything and he's over. You can organically get him into a Mania match. I feel he or Cody winning it is too predictable and could have the opposite from intended effect.

Maybe LA Knight for the win? But again he doesn't really need it to get him up there. Gunther would have been a great shout to dethrone Rollins with a Rumble win, but Punk rocking up and being put on RAW likely puts pay to that. You can't really waste the big Reigns loss on a heel either.

The easy out to getting the title off Rollins is the briefcase. I know they want him as the big brave fighting champion, but Priest deserves a go soon.

[Baz]

Jade Cargill’s mums died.

[Waffdon]

Charlotte injured for 9 months.

Suiiiiii

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

It's so much better when she's out of action, no more shoe horning her into every title match.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Speaking of injuries, Kenny Omega is out indefinitely.

[Shindig]

Diverticulitis strikes again.

[Ben]

That promo with Jericho the other night certainly shit the bed.

[Gray Fox]

Charlotte injured for 9 months.

Suiiiiii

Bun in the oven?

I also see AJ Styles has been on the juice.

[Ben]

Could actually be. I thought it was very strange for them to announce it like a sports injury (knee injury, out for nine months) because wrestling companies don’t usually specify the duration. So as a cover story for pregnancy (until she wants to announce it publicly) makes sense.

[Waffdon]

There was a video of her crying last week with a knee injury so unless that’s been pre planned I’m pretty sure it’s a legit injury

[Ben]

Rumours from credible NJPW sources that Okada has enlisted the infamous Barry Bloom to get him a new deal. You wouldn’t bother yourself with that if you were happy to stay with NJPW full time…

[Ian]

While it's incongruous to suddenly pitch Miz as this wily veteran capable of absorbing huge amounts of punishment and some technical trickery his match vs. Gunther last night was really good and better than their first one. Presumably Miz's best singles match ever (low bar though that may be)?

[Waffdon]

Gunther is just incredible.

Not sure what happened in the main event with that kick out. Ran out of time?

[Ian]

You mean when Julius kicked out right after the three? I just assumed that was to show it was a very close thing. Thought that was a fun match but I'd like the Creeds to add some stuff to their movesets that makes them look less like rookies. It's 2023 lads, no main event match needs three consecutive fireman carries.

Thought the Seth / Drew stuff was good too.

[Waffdon]

They need to scrap that finisher. It looks a bit shit and someone’s gonna get fucked up badly from it.

It looked like he kicked out before 3 but maybe you’re right

[Ian]

Yeah I flicked back and I think it was 3 then insta-kickout but could be wrong.

And yeah I thought on both of them that Brutus is literally just landing on them but not with any apparent control. Needs refinement if they're gonna keep doing it.

[Ian]

Wrestletalk thought the ending was a bit weird and like maybe there was meant to be more too, Waff, so maybe I've just taken it too much at face value.

[Ian]

I like how he more or less used some of Adam Page's lines but with the different context of them actually making sense.

What's the script with this? I saw it mentioned last week after you had posted this but also apparently the one from this week lifted some stuff from Page or overtly referenced it or something but obviously it's going way over my head.

[wullie]

What's the script with this? I saw it mentioned last week after you had posted this but also apparently the one from this week lifted some stuff from Page or overtly referenced it or something but obviously it's going way over my head.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ttt9DsyFzYc

This is the one, made absolutely no sense at the time and seemed to be the catalyst for most of the stuff that came since

[Gray Fox]

From what I remember Page was all pissy because Punk was coming in and going over, despite himself having to go through his big journey to get to the title. This lead to him being a bitch about it backstage and then during that promo. During the promo they did the mistake of working themselves into a shoot, brother.

You can see Punk trying to play it off and make Page look daft, which he does well but then during the attempted hand shake about 7:56 you can see Page say to him "You want me to shake your hand? You owe Cabana money!" That pissed Punk off enough to push him and then Page clocks him for real. You can see that look in Punks eyes of 'oh you really did that?' while he's on the ground.

That essentially divided the locker room. Page is partnered up and negotiates contracts with The Elite so they all took his side and other members of the locker room took Punks. All while Tony sat sobbing in the corner that his favourite guys couldnt all play nice together, instead of actually fixing it.

[Ian]

Yeah I knew all the fallout of it just wasn't sure the specifics of the promo. Wrestlers remain a lot of enormous mewling manchildren.

Wrestling With Wregret did a good (grudging :D) video on it all recently, Punk's time in AEW.

[Ben]

And now Page is playing trios wrestling in ROH with his not-over-anymore friends, while Punk is shifting $500k worth of merchandise in 24 hours.

No doubt Punk was a complete arsehole at times there, but the gatekeeping from the Elite was hilarious.

[Gray Fox]

You can even see it in Punk in that promo. He's seeing how much of a bitch Page is being about it and trying to say look it's just business. Even tries to big him up a little, but no not interested.

[phonics]

That was everyones promo against Punk. Nobody likes you, you're a prick. Eddie Kingston did the same thing. And what do ya know how it turned out, nobody liked him apart from his Brett hart bum chums, the gun toter and captain baldy, and everyone thought he was a prick.

[Ben]

Eddie Kingston didn't work himself into a shoot over it though. Colt Cabana was a pathetic hill to die on and they did it purely as a gatekeeping thing against WWE outsiders. Punk was a prick eventually but he was targeted from day one before he ruffled any feathers. The Elite aren't actually friends with Cabana, but enemy of my enemy is my friend etc. Only Jericho has bridged that gap consistently but that's because he's made residence so far up Tony's arse. Edge wasn't even through the door ten minutes and stories are already getting planted with Dave Meltzer about him being responsible for the poor ticket sales.

[phonics]

Oh no not people being mean about Edge. Not the over-the-hill past it B-tier 'superstar'. Won't someone think of the children.

[Ben]

So it's fair game to be mean to Edge but as soon as someone is mean to the Bucks, they're out on their arse.

Do you not see the problem here?

[Baz]

Bucks are good tho

[Waffdon]

They wrestle like a video game

[phonics]

No Baz you don’t understand. Wrestling is about your ability to draw money. Except when it comes to flippy guys who create an entire independent merchandise industry and build a strong enough brand that they had multiple individual advertising deals due to their youthbe presence and then became the EVPs of the second biggest Wrestling company in the world. Then it’s about protecting the super kick as a finisher.

I don’t particularly care for the Bucks but to denigrate their achievements or talent is just silly.

[Ben]

It's nothing to do with their wrestling ability, it's the fact they basically run the company. But they're not over anymore, they're a midcard tag team. It's like Road Dogg and Billy Gunn having all the influence over Vince during the Attitude Era.

[phonics]

Was looking through wrestling memorabilia and think I found my favourite piece ever.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/270326079648956433/1187509951938166907/s-l1600.jpg

[Shindig]

I'd like to think Virgil was a good sport about signing that but he was probably seething.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1740878709211496703

:cool:

[Baz]

Not watched AEW for a while but see there's a PPV tonight?

Besides the devil reveal, what else has been building plz

[Waffdon]

Probably for the best. MJF is being ruined

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

More wrestlers have been shilling ticket sales in empty arenas.

[Gray Fox]

Who can the devil figure end up being to make it actually work? I don't think anyone wants it to be Jungle Boy and I don't think there's a big enough free agent to fill the void. Adam Cole(baby) would likely have been the obvious choice were he able to walk, but who else is there?

[Baz]

Roddy or Britt or DOLPH ZIGGLER

[phonics]

Whoever it is it's shit.

Meanwhile ol' sex pest Jericho is slowly getting outed.

[Ben]

His wife is also back on Twitter after being kicked off due to the whole Capitol Hill insurrection thing.

[Shindig]

Who can the devil figure end up being to make it actually work? I don't think anyone wants it to be Jungle Boy and I don't think there's a big enough free agent to fill the void. Adam Cole(baby) would likely have been the obvious choice were he able to walk, but who else is there?

<bell tolls>

"What's Mean Mark doing All Elite?"

[wullie]

If it's not Tony Khan as the higher power just pack the company in

[Ben]

Punk turning himself babyface and he’s not even there anymore.

[phonics]

Riho :wub:

[phonics]

A perfect end to a 6 month storyline

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/270326079648956433/1190880091744514078/image.png

I had my fingers crossed for Hornswoggle.

At least Eddie Kingston won.

[Ben]

Coke head responds to the Jericho allegations not only with a pathetic answer but looking like this. I mean it’s funny but it’s not. Five years into running a major promotion and he’s still doing inexplicable shit like this. AEW is heading in the wrong direction fast.

“Great question” :D

1741339111791755570

[Shindig]

TonAI Kahn giving off the answer as if someone fell off a ladder wrong.

[Ian]

So MJF to WWE confirmed, yeah?

[Ian]

Watched the end of the match and the crowd reaction is not the "OMG MJF LOST THE BELT" reaction you'd be hoping for and more a "Oh.... did he actually lose?" which is not ideal. Feels like those times WWE absolutely fucks a bit of booking and you can see the crowd are waiting for The Bullshit (match restart or whatever) to happen rather than reacting to what's in front of them.

Which is a shame because Joe is great.

Who do you AEW lads think will take the title off him? will Joe deal with Cole (in the short term at least) and just take it back (because he's definitely already signed a contract I assume?) or somebody like Swerve will get a run?

[Ben]

I think they ought to just bury the Devil nonsense, especially as it sounds like MJF is getting some extended time off, so there’ll be no comeuppance for Cole.

A logical booker will be using Joe as a transitional champion to get to Swerve or Ospreay (hopefully Swerve) but you can see on my post above what regular cocaine use does to a man.

[wullie]

I'd have Jericho win it. Samoa Joe thinks he's turning up to a handicap match but when he gets there it's just one on one so he has to lose the title because of the implication.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Jericho to win it? Even after the allegations?

Surely that's more WWE.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Rumours are that Kevin Dunn has resigned.

RIP a million camera cuts per match :drool:

[Ian]

The chat is always that HHH hates Dunn so I'm surprised if anything that he lasted this long.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

There was a rumour shortly after HHH came in that Dunn was going to be canned but it never panned out, hopefully this is legit.

[Ben]

If true it shows Vince is 100% not involved anymore.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Andrade's contract with AEW has expired.

Bring him back Trips :drool:

[Waffdon]

Rock v Reigns at Wrestlemania then?

Poor Cody is never finishing that story

[Waffdon]

Will be the worst match in history if so as he was gassed after hitting a spinebuster and elbow

[Ben]

I read yesterday that the plan is:

Rock vs. Roman at EC (in Australia). Roman wins, Bloodline beat down Rock. Cody makes the save, Rock endorses him to see off Roman at WM.

I'm a bit sceptical, as I'm not sure they will run such a huge angle at 7am East Coast time, but apparently ticket sales are awful and this would give it a huge shot in the arm.

[wullie]

Jinder Mahal being revealed initially as the big returning champion for a laugh was great and also serves as a reminder that Jinder Mahal was the world champion. Kind of thing you wonder if you made up in your head

[Ben]

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/lhvzF3019Ys/sddefault.jpg?v=5e887cfb

[Ian]

It would be an interesting test of where Triple H's head is at with this stuff, whether he's prepared to let the Mania main event (when it's not him) include somebody who simply can't go any more.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Jinder Mahal being revealed initially as the big returning champion for a laugh was great and also serves as a reminder that Jinder Mahal was the world champion. Kind of thing you wonder if you made up in your head

The crowd reaction was hilarious.

[Gray Fox]

Jinder Mahal being revealed initially as the big returning champion for a laugh was great and also serves as a reminder that Jinder Mahal was the world champion. Kind of thing you wonder if you made up in your head

His reign is actually very similar to the current version of Romans too. Have match --> start losing match --> take opponents finisher --> outside interference distracts ref and opponent --> hit one finisher to pin and win.

[Disco]

I remember his reign fondly, it was what drove me into the waiting arms and dubious neck health of New Japan.

[Ian]

All worth it for the pop.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYFygc4VX50

AJ was super popular but there was also a lot of OH THANK FUCK IT'S OVER in that reaction.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

R-Truth "joining" The Judgement Day is pretty damn good.

[Ian]

It's fine because Truth is fun but does make the ones who don't just kick his cunt in look like fucking nerds rather than a serious proposition.

The more they don't just batter him it looks like Rhea is babysitting some proper idiots.

Also Priest, who I really like, has never felt further from a legit cash-in prospect than he does at the moment. I know he's got plenty of time and they keep having him show up as if he might cash in but right now it feels, to me at least, like there's literally no chance of them even considering it before Mania and that being the case you can basically forget him doing anything relevant before April.

[Ian]

1742044486895636515

:D

I found this funnier than it probably is.

[Ben]

Not a fan of the R-Truth bit. Comedy has its place in wrestling for sure but that place is midcard tops and they’re trying to position Judgment Day as the top stable for when the Bloodline implodes. I can’t take them seriously when they’ve got a comedy act following them about.

[Shindig]

Wasn't Sami doing the same role with the Bloodline?

[Waffdon]

Not a fan of the R-Truth bit. Comedy has its place in wrestling for sure but that place is midcard tops and they’re trying to position Judgment Day as the top stable for when the Bloodline implodes. I can’t take them seriously when they’ve got a comedy act following them about.

Him mimicking Shawn Michaels v Ric Flair was amazing.

[Ben]

Wasn't Sami doing the same role with the Bloodline?

Which is part of the problem. They’re trying to repeat it with lesser parts.

I feel like I’m coming across a bit grumpy about this and I’m not, I love R-Truth, but he has his level and this ain’t it.

Although Judgment Day have since employed that Funko Pop from OTT so I don’t even know what the end game is. Maybe just have Rhea run a gauntlet on them (and me).

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Him mimicking Shawn Michaels v Ric Flair was amazing.

Properly lolled at that.

[Ian]

Wasn't Sami doing the same role with the Bloodline?

Yeeees but I do think this is different. a) R-Truth isn't being positioned for a serious run, and hasn't been at any risk of doing one for years. Sami had already had a not insignificant deluded heel run when he started doing the "I'm going to be part of the Bloodline!" stuff and when it very first kicked off it was (I think? correct me if I'm misremembering / giving it more credit than it deserved) meant to be Sami fairly cynically trying to become part of the biggest game in town because he thought WWE was against him. Not "HAHA IT'S FUNNY BECAUSE R-TRUTH IS MENTALLY DISABLED."

That said, if R Truth somehow takes MITB off Priest and cashes in on Reigns I'll forgive it all.

[Shindig]

"I'm cashing this in 'cos I'm Ron fucking Killings." and then he shoots someone.

[Ian]

"I did it.... for Little Jimmy"

*smokes*

[Baz]

I enjoyed the Edge and Christian shenanigans.

Why is Luchasaurus now called Killswitch?

[Ben]

Christian's finishing move name. I guess it further signifies his control over the big lump.

[Ben]

Dolph Ziggler has rocked up in the Tokyo Dome.

[Disco]

Barely watched a single grap in the last few months so I have no context but Okada / Danielson was unsurprisingly good. I had a good lol at Izuka turning up in weirdly good shape, now to see if I can be made to care about Sanada in the main event.

[Ben]

Danielson was absolutely loving it, you could tell. And it must be quite novel for him to see Okada sell him like a killer after knocking about with Moxley for the last 18 months.

[Disco]

Looks like Ibushis career is effectively over, even in wrestling I'm not sure I've seen a greater disparity between talent and brains than with this man.

[Ben]

Started the match with a broken ankle and mangled shoulder. Booked to go 33 minutes. Finished the match with two broken ankles. NOAH deserve all they got with that one.

[phonics]

I'm not some wrestling scout but within 45 seconds of Takeshita's first AEW match on one of their awful dark match youtube shows, I said to the people I was watching it with that he's a star. They've done their best to fumble it but it seems that he's starting to come through. The match with Darby is great. Darby might be in a wheelchair by 40 but his absolute lack of care for his own safety makes his opponents look a million bucks.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kME2j_vHQ3Q

[Ben]

Takeshita is brilliant. Looks huge next to all the vanilla midgets as well. Not sure why it’s taken this long to give him a proper push but Tony gonna Tony.

[phonics]

Takeshita is brilliant. Looks huge next to all the vanilla midgets as well. Not sure why it’s taken this long to give him a proper push but Tony gonna Tony.

Match wise he's been given quite a few pushes, think he must be the only person who has an undefated record aginst Omega over several bouts but the most consistent flaw in AEW is their inability to get foreigners with a language barrier (Takeshita, Rey Fenix) and americans that can't work the mic (Hobbes, Wardlow) over the final hurdle. You can tell Omega is backing him and trying to use Callis to close that gap but as with every AEW stable, the guy on the mic just ends up burying the talent with bullshit.

[Ben]

Yeah that’s obviously a hurdle but with Callis there’s no excuse not to push him hard now. Big heel foreigner with chatty manager is a gimmick as old as time and outside of Vince McMahon World it’s always worked.

[Ian]

Ah, even HHH isn't immune to the old WWE "have a no contest in a match which is meant to be no DQ" trope I see, with a number one contenders match triple threat getting no contested because of Bloodline interference. Bonus points for making Roman look an idiot by lumbering himself with a fatal fourway in the process. But at least it means it's not a match that'll be done entirely at walking pace.

Tyler Bate on the main roster though. :cool: Now give Butch his real name back please. Then let have some matches with Gunther.


Looks like Ibushis career is effectively over, even in wrestling I'm not sure I've seen a greater disparity between talent and brains than with this man.

What did he do this time?

[Ben]

To be fair I don't know why triple threat matches are automatically no-DQ anyway. I think it was something ECW introduced then everyone else adopted it as the norm (although multi-man matches were very rare back then).

Ibushi fucked his shoulder about two years ago and refused to get surgery (hence his podgy look since his comeback because he can't lift weights), then he fucked his ankle at some point in those pathetic AEW matches, then he tried to wrestle a 30 minute match on said injuries, completely missing a moonsault in the process and breaking his other ankle.

[Disco]

He's not a fan of normal medicine either so despite wrestling a style that has lead to multiple serious injuries he never gets them fixed.

[Ian]

I'd missed that on Smackdown AOP returned, with Ellering, attached to Kross and Scarlett. Dunno if that's gonna work out for them but at least being attached to Kross means they'll probably get some chances given HHH is clearly determined to make him a thing one way or another.

There is a decent tag division in there if HHH finds the time to do stuff with it. It doesn't feel like they're that important and JD will stop caring as soon as the group inevitably splits but you've got them, New Day, AOP, British Strong Style, Pretty Deadly, Creeds, Fridge Raiders, DIY, Imperium, Profits*, Garza/Carillo.

Like, there's a bunch of good teams there and an obvious starting point in terms of who are the top contenders, the fodder but who can hold their own, etc.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1743693915188846686

:drool:

Wilde flew.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Ah, even HHH isn't immune to the old WWE "have a no contest in a match which is meant to be no DQ" trope I see, with a number one contenders match triple threat getting no contested because of Bloodline interference. Bonus points for making Roman look an idiot by lumbering himself with a fatal fourway in the process. But at least it means it's not a match that'll be done entirely at walking pace.


He also introduced some new bullshit on NXT this week.

Roxanne Perez won her match but because she's turning heel she attacked her opponent after the bell. The ref then called the announcer over to tell her that he has reversed the decision because Roxanne wouldn't follow ref's instructions, lol.

[Gray Fox]

They started down the no contest in a no DQ match, slippery slope on those back to back HIAC matches. The most comical of which was Rollins hitting the pile of stuff on top of The Fiend with a big comedy mallet. Ref called for the bell and the 'athletic trainer' immediately. Got him on a stretcher only for him to pop straight up and go batter Rollins.

Crowd rightfully shit on it as it was clear bs because HHH/Vince wanted neither guy to take a loss. If that's true then just don't make that match.

[Ian]

The HIAC where they continued to ruin what they'd managed to build with Boatman where a FUCKING HELL IN A CELL MATCH ended because of some F5s was the worst of all that.

I mean the red cell match was obviously worse overall, just specifically that ending.


He also introduced some new bullshit on NXT this week.

Roxanne Perez won her match but because she's turning heel she attacked her opponent after the bell. The ref then called the announcer over to tell her that he has reversed the decision because Roxanne wouldn't follow ref's instructions, lol.

That's even worse than the old 'DQed for kicking too much ass.'

[Disco]

1743693915188846686

:drool:

Wilde flew.

I saw that, looked incredible for something so simple I wonder why it's not been done more.

[Ben]

He said himself he had to convince Shawn Michaels to let him do it because nobody believed him when he said he could clear 20 feet.

Now everyone will start doing it and it’ll become just another move like the Canadian Destroyer.

[wullie]

I remember Ricochet in NXT doing a running flip and landing perfectly on his feet outside the ring which looked amazing but also felt like a broken ankle waiting to happen.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I remember Ricochet in NXT doing a running flip and landing perfectly on his feet outside the ring which looked amazing but also felt like a broken ankle waiting to happen.

He did it when speaking to Velveteen Dream.

He also did it on the main roster when feuding with Logan Paul.

[Ben]

Still not a patch on Top Dolla’s effort. :cool:

[Ben]

1744835475901227380

1744835296007483750

Big T on the coke again.

Someone really needs to take his socials away from him. Tinpot as fuck.

[Ian]

Unnecessary drive-by on poor old Jinder as well.

[Shindig]

They'd love to have him.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

It's fine, he can't be hindered.

[Ben]

He's gone off at Eric Bischoff since then as well because the guy had the cheek to pick up on Tony's hypocrisy (he gave Abadon a title shot after a year out).

In this PR world, TV execs must be looking at him and thinking fuck that. No wonder the WWE/WBD rumours are hotting up. WBD have a fucking stake in AEW and they're still wanting rid. Can you imagine Triple H or Nick Khan arguing with Jim Cornette, FOX and random bot accounts on Twitter?

[Baz]

Watching Dynamite at Daily’s Place is kind of embarrassing.

[Ben]

The venue or the show itself? Two eight-man tags and the Young Bucks' moustaches are pretty bad stuff.

[Baz]

The venue mainly. And yeah, card wasn’t great but the opening match was a banger.

[Waffdon]

1747433856146497699

Lol

[Ben]

Not surprising. Bloke is a complete lunatic with his ideas, especially when it comes to women. His pitch to WCW just before they went bust is incredible.

Apologies for Reddit links but it's all I can find:

https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/190d58x/vince_russo_and_jeremy_borash_pitched_a_womens/

[Shindig]

Great, now I want a 50 Shades of Grey knock-off written by Russo and Borash.

[Ben]

The Bucks have finally gone full blown heel, which means they might be enjoyable for once. Their only previous decent run was when they were heel a couple of years ago but they destroyed it by getting pissy because they wanted to play babyface trios with Omega.

[Disco]

Kazuchika Okada is leaving NJPW. Sizeable news and presumably an absolute bombshell in Japan, hopefully he goes anywhere other than WWE.

[Ben]

Biggest news in Japan in many years. Aces don't just leave in their prime.

[Disco]

Ospreay going too, what with Naito and Tanahashi at the end of their careers there's a decent amount of space at the top of their card. Lads like Tsuji, Umino, Kidd et al with a great chance to step up.

[Ben]

I imagine they'll look to steal Kiyomiya full-time to fill the void. His mini-run makes a lot more sense now if backstage they knew about this a while ago.

I don't care which promotion Okada goes to, just as long as he doesn't go straight into a feud with fucking Jericho.

[Ian]

Okada in a three month feud with the Miz to get him used to main roster. :drool:

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

He's lucky Ziggler isn't there anymore.

[Gray Fox]

Is he the one Jericho ripped off the Painmaker gimmick from?

[Ben]

Yes. And if you're an AEW fan and your first exposure to Okada is a shitty Jericho feud then he's on the back foot instantly.

[Baz]

Nah, Jericho’s happy to put anyone over.

[Ben]

I get that, but he's absolute death these days so what good does it do anyone? Plenty of people will lie down for Okada but if you have a crowd actively shitting on one half of the feud then both parties are losers.

[Waffdon]

Jericho needs to bring back the list

[Ben]

Agreed it was awesome but it can't work in the current environment.

All the fucking online clowns have made wrestling into a big schoolyard argument so you're not allowed to like both promotions, and if you slag off AEW you must be a WWE stooge. All the WWE fans would laugh if Jericho started doing that gimmick on AEW and all the AEW hardcore nutcases would get pissy that AEW is doing WWE stuff. And Tony books his whole promotion for these people. You can't win.

[Waffdon]

Travesty Jericho and Owens got fucked over that year. They were carrying the company from the bits I seen.

[Ben]

That was a fucking great team. The last time I enjoyed Owens tbf.

WWE really went down the tubes all round for a while after that ended.

[Ben]

Speaking of Jericho, I just read a story about him getting knocked out by MVP on his own cruise for mouthing off. :D

Then when he woke up MVP wanted to go again so Jericho ran off and got in the lift and just as the doors were closing shouted "I don't fight jobbers" :D:D

I guess MVP is on the list.

[Ian]

The Festival of Friendship was incredible.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

RIP Rollins.

[Gray Fox]

He really doesn't want to put Pepsi Phil over.

[Ben]

“Only” the MCL apparently so maybe he’s not out of Mania yet.

Also, Pete Dunne got his name back. :cool:

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Pete Dunne :drool:

[Ian]

Pete Dunne. :cool:

[Ian]

https://whatculture.com/wwe/seth-rollins-tears-mcl-and-meniscus-will-address-future-on-wwe-raw

I have no idea what sort of time out those injuries require. His crap/selective body part selling aside all the chat seems to be that Rollins has been carrying a few genuine injuries for ages now so I reckon if they can nurse him through to Mania and he'll be okay for a match there you have (presumably) Punk but crucially a heel Punk beat him and then for fuck's sake just tell Rollins to have some time off.

[Ben]

As you all know I couldn’t give a fuck about Rollins so if he has to vacate and The Rock is a Mania match instead of EC, then Punk vs. Cody would be a hell of a main event.

[Ian]

Are me and Waff the only Rollins fans on here these days? His character work is understandably maligned (though I think when he's on it he's really good, including recent promos and his Rumble match with Reigns) but I think he's weirdly divisive. He's VERY WWE but it's weird to complain about that if you're choosing to watch him wrestle for WWE.

I would kinda love to see him run down his current deal and try his hand elsewhere though. I would generally like it if the wrestling landscape was more fluid.

I've no idea what Papa H would do with him but I genuinely think, other than that it'd rule out a match against MJF for the next few years, Okada going to WWE is the more interesting option. And I'm not just saying that because WWE is what I predominantly watch because I haven't watched enough Okada to get it. But he's a fucking NAME and if he goes to AEW well, yeah, he'll have some new matches plus a bunch he's already done.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

His matches would be much better if he didn't spend 95% of them trying to sell a knee/back injury.

[Ian]

Even as a Rollins mark, I agree his selective selling of specific injuries isn't up to scratch.

I'll say this though. Ziggler used to get a lot of wank praise for being a great seller when what people meant is he was a great bumper. Rollins is a better seller. And modern wrestling lacks for that generally. People just forgetting how they're meant to be hurt as soon as it's their turn to do offence.

Gunther wins again there. Who was it he had the match against where they worked his hand to negate the chops so he beat them with a boot or powerbomb or something instead? Might've been the first Ilja match.

[Waffdon]

I’ll always love Rollins and if he never blew his knee up he’d get less criticism as he wouldn’t have to wrestle safe (or he’d still be capable of what he was prior).

He needs a break though. He’s carried a lot of the work for years. The injury could be a blessing for him.

Also not his fault fans are obsessed with theme songs otherwise he’d have never needed to turn back to being a face.

[Ben]

My problems with him are:

- He fucked his knee years ago but still tries to wrestle like he did pre-injury, so it’s just sloppy.

- Even though he has a fucked knee, he can’t sell the thing legitimately.

- His cackly voice is annoying as fuck.

The tools are there, he just utilises them badly.

[Ian]

I agree re: the cackle, it's fucking shit and he needs to bin it.

Honestly I'd try and convince him to agree to like a full year off. Fans want to love Rollins, ignore the singing that 18/19 run proved he can get mega pops, but just let him train and rest for a good long spell and then have him return to a massive fucking crowd push. They nearly had that when he came back in 2017 or something and Pedigree'd Reigns but they tried to make him a heel first. Vince was thick as mince at that point.

But let/make him take a long break so he can be fully healthy and just watch him go. Or if necessary, as Ben alludes to, because his knee is actually just done at this point have somebody help him figure out how to retool.

Still, if nothing else he'll always have me and Waff. :wub:

[Gray Fox]

One of his issues is that he wants to be seen as that fighting champion. He also believes that he should be the face of the place. Neither of these computes with a long period off of recovery. I think he's his own worst enemy there.

If he can come back for the Pepsi Phil match, what better time to have him go full heel than to beat him at Mania. He'd need a full repackage though. A bit like how they changed Nakamuras music to stop people singing it.

That said, hes getting towards 38, which while not at all old in wrestling terms, is about that time your top talent starts assessing life after WWE. Be it the big/small screen or other interests. Also has a very young daughter and a wife that may be about to be out of a job. Maybe he does start to think long term? Personal opinion from what we've seen is that if there's a chance he can go, even if working hurt, he'll do it.

[Waffdon]

Punk should be heel but I can’t see them doing that until after ‘mania.

Probably does it screwing Rhodes over who will be on his third year of trying to finish his story :D

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1749138746987962791

:D

dots

[Waffdon]

Gunther taking the title off Rollins tonight? :hubba:

[Ben]

The Cody-Punk segment last night was pretty great. Started off as respect, ramping it up (Cody's little wink to the Punk/Dwayne thing "I'm talking about me") and ending with them facing off. Shows you don't need to come to blows or get some furniture out to hype the PPV.

I think they might actually pull the trigger on Cody at Mania this time. I don't think they needed to have Rollins announce HE'S NOT FUCKING LEAVING though. It would have been nice to roll with the uncertainty that we might pivot to Cody vs. Punk because that segment (and the inevitable confrontation in the Rumble) could serve as some fine initial build. But I get that Triple H is setting up long term opponents for Punk after Rollins, so it's not bad booking, but it might have been nice to believe we're getting that match at Mania at least for a few weeks.

[Ben]

I've just seen only seven names have been announced for the Rumble. That's great stuff. Seven big names that sell the match, then a fuck load of surprises. It was shite in recent years when we'd know like 25 in advance.

[Waffdon]

Agreed. We probably won’t get many but at least theres a suspense now.

Idk why they teased Gunther with Rollins last night if they’re still gonna go down Punk route

[Ben]

That's why I don't think they should have nailed their flag to the mast last night. Punk vs. Cody at Mania was highly believable coming out of that segment so if you leave it at that then you think Gunther vs. Rollins could also be a legit match (and especially if you think outside the kayfabe box, having an injured guy drop the belt to the big heel in a couple of minutes is a trope as old as time).

But I suppose they don't have to do all that, all the tickets are sold already.

[wullie]

Hulk Hogan teasing a spot in the rumble is great, all the black wrestlers can chuck him like that time Muhammad Hassan entered.

[Gray Fox]

Did you guys know that Dusty Rhodes, was Cody Rhodes father though?

[phonics]

RAW has gone to Netflix in the US.

[Ben]

And everything WWE will be on Netflix outside of the US.

[Waffdon]

No more PG on Raw? Or wishful thinking.

[Ben]

Netflix ruined everything they got their hands on so I don't know what to think.

[phonics]

I've just thought of the major reprecussion of this. I never have to hear about 'Quarter Hour Ratings' ever again :drool:

[Gray Fox]

And everything WWE will be on Netflix outside of the US.

This including their Premium Live Events is very interesting.

If it's all available for a bog standard Netflix subscription this is very good news for us.
First time since the 80s that no WWE show will be on a TV channel here.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1749763213313392955

He's literally going to be sitting at the head of the table.

[Ben]

This including their Premium Live Events is very interesting.

If it's all available for a bog standard Netflix subscription this is very good news for us.
First time since the 80s that no WWE show will be on a TV channel here.

Not sure on how true it is but I read that Netflix is in four times as many homes as TNT. Seems reasonable and it wouldn't surprise me if it's even more than that.

[Waffdon]

I was away to say. 4x seems on the low end

[Gray Fox]

Makes sense. Even your average sports fan is a maybe on having TNT in their house. I don't know many households that don't have Netflix access in some way.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

The Rock's daughter (Ava Raine, dumb name lads) is the new GM of NXT for reasons...

[Gray Fox]

The Rock's daughter (Ava Raine, dumb name lads) is the new GM of NXT for reasons...


1749763213313392955

He's literally going to be sitting at the head of the table.

Can't think of the reasons.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

They've been grooming her for the role for months now tbh.

She was a heel in a faction which broke up and then a week or two later seemed to just be a face who was acting as an assistant to HBK.

[Ian]

So there are reasons then. You're all over the place.

Mahow is wolfy as fuck.

[Ben]

USA Network will not be carrying Raw after September 30. $20 million saved as wwe network internationally shuts down for Netflix.

As it stands, no Raw for three months before the Netflix deal kicks in.

[wullie]

The network's being incorprated into Netflix including all the archive stuff? That's great in itself as they updated their own app a few months ago and it got 10 times worse in the process.

[Ben]

Sounds like it. That's certainly a win for the end user.

[phonics]

I wouldn't speak so fast. Have you used Netflix search?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

The Network is horrendous for going through shit.

I have been slowly re-watching the Attitude Era and it's painful as you select the year and then have to scroll all the way back (single clicks on Fire TV) to the date as it goes from December-January. There is no way to skip months.

[Gray Fox]

I'm not sure I've seen confirmation anywhere that the back catalogue is moving over yet.

[Ian]

Bit late to Ben and Waff's Rumble build chat but I quite like the way they're doing it. I still think Punk / Rollins and Cody / Reigns are probably what's happening with one of Cody or Punk winning the Rumble but depending on how likely you think them doing Rock / Roman is then I reckon at that point you're possibly as likely getting a full Cody / Punk feud with Gunther facing Rollins, and while this feels less likely with HHH fully in charge it's still WWE so I couldn't fully rule out Rock coming out at 30 and getting a Roman match that way.

He definitely doesn't need it and honestly I'm not really sure if the Rock is likely to be at this Mania or not but I do feel like there are a few options here even if some seem considerably more likely. And I've not even mentioned McIntyre but I assume he's getting eliminated and finding a way to not blame himself as part of his ongoing thing. I also just like the amount of different people they've got interacting with each other.

Unrelated, and this might just be blind optimism, but them suddenly doing stuff with Xavier and Kofi has me wondering if Big E is secretly readying himself up for a return. Imagine the fucking pop if it's number 30 and "OoooooOOOOOOOOOHHHHH...."

Probably not happening though, and if it's not I'm at least glad they're giving Kofi and Woods a bit to do.

[Waffdon]

McIntyre hasn’t signed a new contract if you believe the internet so either we’re being worked or he’ll be getting buried as WM will be his last PPV

[Ian]

He'd lose if he's leaving, certainly, but hopefully HHH wouldn't do what Vince would and make a cunt of him on the way out.

Do a good old fashioned Loser Leaves Town match against somebody. :nodd:

[Ben]

I don't think he's leaving but he would be an absolute monster in AEW. Everyone there is under 5'10" and/or 200lbs. It always gets me how Billy Gunn looks an absolute giant for them but back in his heyday he was just another average sized guy in comparison.

They set up a potential Punk match a couple of weeks ago and surely they would have already known he wasn't re-signing so either it's the Perth main event or we're being worked.

[Gray Fox]

Even if Big E can only take a couple of bumps, getting him to come out for a deserved pop would be great. I sadly don't think we ever see him back in the ring again unfortunately. I think if he were able, he'd be back by now. Probably best not to Kurt Angle yourself.

As for the Rumble, it seems to me that we have the first non obvious winner in a few years. It would appear to be between Punk, Cody and Walter. We've had two winners from #30 in a row so I expect an ironman winner this year. Maybe not from number 1, but Walter coming in say 3rd or 4th and winning it would be very on brand and I'd like that.
I feel like Cody is the least likely winner of the three. To re-run the same angle as last year would surely just tell them they fucked up and made the wrong decision at Mania. I also feel like the pec injury and being gone for a long time did him some favours(the people crowning Zayn the new hero didn't help him though), but this time people are souring fast on having to hear about THE STORY and also he's now faced with about the only man on the roster who could beat him in a popularity contest with the crowd.
The chances of Punk winning I think have taken a hit with the Rollins injury. Now Rollins coming out and not vacating and playing up to the "I'm going regardless" angle tells me that the doctors think he'll either recover in time, or be good enough to be able to at least job for someone. You don't want to waste the Punk match if Rollins only has 1 leg. If he's got a good recovery timescale, Punk wins. If he doesn't, Walter wins and the plucky hero tries his best but just can't overcome the odds at Mania.

I'm also sure we're going to see a failed cash in from Priest at the Rumble. If the Rollins injury was him definitely out of Mania, he'd had been the macguffin to smooth it over. As is, both belts are locked until Mania. You're not ending Reigns run by a cash in and same for Rollins. In the event either lose at Mania you're also not having a cash in on the guy who just got the big push beating Roman, or a Punk/Walter after a month or two. They missed their chance months ago with him.

Dwayne has been posting a lot on socials again about head of the table bollocks and obviously is now involved in TKO, so I reckon he could be got. But if we get him v Reigns then Romans going over again.

[Ben]

I feel like we've got one part too many in this build. Either someone gets shoehorned into a match to make it a three-way and ruin everything, or there's a big surprise/swerve coming.

[Gray Fox]

In case of emergency, Brock glass.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I've been beating the WALTER to win the Rumble drum for months. The Punk return has derailed that a little but I still think it's the best outcome.

Punk, Rhodes and Rock don't need it.

I think the women's has got Bayley written all over it, the only wrench would be Jade Cargill. I think Trips could easily have her debut in the Rumble and win it to push her to the moon.

[Ian]

I think you want as many as possible and the crossover is just giving a bunch of people ready-made angles so it's not just "So I lost in the Rumble but never mind I know hate [random wrestler] now and would like to fight them."


In case of emergency, Brock glass.

Another thing we can hopefully wave bye bye to with Vince out, just going "ah fuck it let's just have Bork win this thing he wasn't even in."

[Ian]

Becky (to set up Rhea, but Becky can probably just get that match, would also be their first two time Rumble winner for the women and they love MOMENTS), Bayley to set her Damage CTRL ousting up or Cargill seem to be the options there.

[Ben]

Brock did have that electric face off with Gunther last year, so there's always that route and it means he doesn't have to win the Rumble.

This would also be the perfect time to debut Cargill. She will get over as fuck in the WWE bubble.

[Ben]

I imagine Triple H had his Rumble winner picked before Punk punched Jungle Boy too, so it'll be interesting to see if he pivots from that if he feels that's the most logical way to make the much teased Rollins match official.

[phonics]

Brock had some great moments in that rumble.

"Ooooh, big boy"

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I'm not sure I've seen confirmation anywhere that the back catalogue is moving over yet.

1750489634218426443

Not sure how reliable they are.

[Waffdon]

I’ve just seen the RR winner odds and I’m now getting excited.

Gunther is 2/1 from about 12/1 (even after Monday) and punk has went from completely odds on to over evens

[phonics]

The Vince texts are very bad

[Gray Fox]

Good lord.

This kind of shit could and should bring a company down. There's no way given the evidence, that almost every executive or higher up backstage did not know what was going on.

[wullie]

A billionaire in his 70s and he texts like a teenage virgin.

[wullie]

"As one example of McMahon’s extreme depravity, on May 9, 2020, he defecated
on Ms. Grant during a threesome, and then commanded her to continue pleasuring his “friend”—
with feces in her hair and running down her back"

What the fuck

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I don't like to kink shame but fucking hell.

[Gray Fox]

In case of emergency, Brock glass.

I was kind of right I guess...

[Ian]

Good lord.

This kind of shit could and should bring a company down. There's no way given the evidence, that almost every executive or higher up backstage did not know what was going on.

This is probably why TKO binned him as soon as they could.

[Ben]

Oh boy.

[Ian]

I imagine we're all shocked at this behaviour from a dude who was clearly gagging to ride his own daughter.

[Shindig]

And Linda wasn't going to stop him.

[Ian]

I don't imagine Linda's touched him off TV since the kids were born.

[Ian]

Lesnar implicated in all this too. Again, not remotely surprised.