The Ultimate WWE Thread

[Ben]

Isn’t that the problem though? Tony lets Jericho do what he wants and it results in goofy storylines and banging head of legal on the side.

[Ben]

Meltzer already laying the “plans could change” groundwork on CM Punk. :D

He just needs to shut the fuck up until news is news. His desperation to smear Punk (and now, bizarrely, Edge) is weird.

[Ian]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szmJZ_2MiDw

Enjoyed this. I don't think I've had any exposure to Aldis so I'll be interested to see how he gets on.

Knight losing to Reigns in Saudi. :sick:

[Waffdon]

Smackdown was pretty good last night. I like the long term story telling.

Presume Owens is going to go full blown heel soon enough on Rhodes and/or Jey USO I think. Rhodes manages to swindle a way for him and Jey to get on both shows whilst Owens is moved to Smackdown without his teammate.

If Reigns was full time I wouldn’t even mind him being unbeatable. Smackdown is always much better with him on it and the backstage segments are always a good laugh.

[Ben]

The Cena/Reigns/Knight segment was great. When was the last time we saw that level of mic work and charisma in the same ring?

[Ben]

JD have won the Tag titles back from Cody and Jey already. I'm not sure about the timing. The Bloodline stuff spins its wheels for months then they hotshot a four match title run and Jimmy costing them the titles in just one week. Shame really, that team could have been a decent offshoot for a month or two.

[Gray Fox]

Roman's turned up to work for a few weeks so we've got to cram some BUILD in. Spin those wheels.

[Waffdon]

I don’t really get it as there’s no reason for Cody Rhodes/Jey Uso to now be on Smackdown. Unless that’s the whole point. Reigns making Jimmy cost them so they don’t have to deal with them.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1715333037905334359

:harold:

[Ian]

That's tragic.

[phonics]

Honestly, while the signings of Brian/Cole/Punk might have taken AEW 'to the next level' in terms of eyeballs and visibility. I think it's done severe and maybe irreperable harm to the overall brand. It wasn't all great and you might have had to put up with more QT Marshall v Stu Grayson while his friend the fat lad in a purple mask/waistcoat watched on than you'd like but it had new people trying new things. The only not OG-WWE>AEW guys (likes of Jericho and Mox etc) that don't feel like their gimmick is 'I was famous before this' is Christian and that took like 2 years of failed Matt Hardy feuds and him making fun of peoples dead dads becoming a meme.

No joke, Miro's back on telly for the first time in a year and his wife has turned up, which I'd like because I just like looking at his very attractive wife, except within a week of her turning up the first angle is that his wife wants to manage a large muscular black man and Miro looks like a cuck. I can't believe we're running this awful angle back again.

Meanwhile 50 year old Edge has turned up and told finally over-Christian to stop hanging out with the dinosaur man and the new kid whos dad's dead that he likes to make fun of and turn face so they can team up again to fight... 50 year old Matt Hardy and hope Jeff hasn't had to go back to rehab by then? It's just shit.

We might have had the fat lad in a purple mask/waistcoat but he was MY fat lad in a purple mask/waistcoat.

[Ben]

Yeah he might have been your fat lad but how long can you run the same thing with the same people before it blows up in your face? The fact that four years on we still have Best Friends, Elite, Dark Order doing the exact same thing they did on the first Dynamite shows why they haven’t grown beyond the initial niche audience. The only time they threatened to do so was when Punk was there but they decided they couldn’t co-exist. So Tony either has to decide he’s serious about running a prime time promotion and stop being friends with the boys, or admit defeat and run as a glorified indie where DREAM MATCHES mean something to the audience. This middle ground he’s in now is killing them.

[wullie]

I think they need some more factions and tournaments, chuck a few death matches in where they don't belong

[Disco]

They took on too much, no-one cares about Ring of Honor and three shows a week for AEW is just horrific. Punk confirming himself as a poisonous cunt hasn't helped but his popularity (despite bang average matches) would presumably only have papered over the cracks for so long.

[phonics]

Yeah he might have been your fat lad but how long can you run the same thing with the same people before it blows up in your face? The fact that four years on we still have Best Friends, Elite, Dark Order doing the exact same thing they did on the first Dynamite shows why they haven’t grown beyond the initial niche audience. The only time they threatened to do so was when Punk was there but they decided they couldn’t co-exist. So Tony either has to decide he’s serious about running a prime time promotion and stop being friends with the boys, or admit defeat and run as a glorified indie where DREAM MATCHES mean something to the audience. This middle ground he’s in now is killing them.

I could legitimately not care less. I liked it. In my opinion, it was more entertaining than anything CM Punk did in his absolutely poisonous run where half the audience sucked him off for watching a Brett Hart match. Just like in your opinion, the things you like could do no wrong and everyone else is shit. I'm not running a game of Booker2k23 where I have to get the 18-30 demo up before June or I'm fired.

[Baz]

Not enjoying the badmouthing of Evil Uno tbh

I’m down to just watching Dynamite since Big Brother, WoW and my kids not sleeping mean I have very little free time. I don’t feel like I miss much.

[Ben]

I could legitimately not care less. I liked it. In my opinion, it was more entertaining than anything CM Punk did in his absolutely poisonous run where half the audience sucked him off for watching a Brett Hart match. Just like in your opinion, the things you like could do no wrong and everyone else is shit. I'm not running a game of Booker2k23 where I have to get the 18-30 demo up before June or I'm fired.

You’re sniping at me but that is exactly what Tony Khan is doing. At the beginning he was portraying himself as this super-indie guy who just booked dream matches and that’s fine but now he’s signed multiple TV deals, that shit ain’t going to fly and he’s going to go down the tubes because 800k marks can’t sustain it when he tries to step outside the box. And therein lies the problem, there’s so much good talent on the roster but they sit on the sidelines while we watch Chuck Taylor and Evil Uno on the weekly.

[Waffdon]

PPV in Berlin next year. Gunther v Dragunov the only acceptable main event.

[igor_balis]

Ja is achtung achtung Alex Wright

[wullie]

Plenty of time for Sgt Slaughter to turn Nazi sympathiser and face Hulk Hogan in a proper main event.

[Shindig]

"Das ist der Wall, Bruder."

[Ian]

Surely nobody is actually interested in seeing Flair any more?

[Ben]

Tony is, and that's all that matters.

And he's throwing away MJF vs. Omega on Collision at three days' notice. Seems those bad ticket sales are going to his head.

[Ian]

Also is RVD actually still good at all or is that more nostalgia? I know he won't be anything like his peak but is he serviceable or...?

[wullie]

Flair's not wrestling in Sting's retirement tour surely?

[Shindig]

It's Ric Flair. He's never done.

[phonics]

MJF v Omega was incredible. Can't wait for Ben to shit all over it because people didn't have to pay 15.99 for it.

[Ben]

I’m sure it was great but why waste one of your biggest possible matches on a TV show nobody watches? It was a knee jerk reaction to getting beat by NXT and ticket sales being in the toilet. They could have (read: should have) ran actual storyline first and bagged themselves a few months of decent TV, but no let’s throw it away without any build and by Wednesday we will be back to Dark Order skits and wondering why no cunt is watching anymore.

[Ben]

Just watched that match and yeah it was good but I stand by my previous point. It’s like Vince putting Shawn vs. Bret on Superstars in 1996 because WCW were destroying them. It’s panic stations from Tony and will give them no momentum going forward because there was no payoff.

[phonics]

Nailed it. Absolutely bizarre mindset. ‘Give me less good things for more money’

[Waffdon]

You’re really dumb.

[Gray Fox]

Bryan Danielson with the broken orbital bone now. Out for the forseeable. A shame because he's very enjoyable to watch.

[Shindig]

Just watched that match and yeah it was good but I stand by my previous point. It’s like Vince putting Shawn vs. Bret on Superstars in 1996 because WCW were destroying them. It’s panic stations from Tony and will give them no momentum going forward because there was no payoff.

I broadly agree. Nitro and Raw built up due to storyline bollocks. The best storyline bollocks the industry has ever seen. I don't recall the matches being especially great. Even if they were, the nature of weekly television means it's forgotten in favour of next week's thing.

However, AEW has an attendance problem. If they must insist on booking the venues they're going after, they need to entice more people to attend. Match quality has to be a factor in that.

[Ben]

Nailed it. Absolutely bizarre mindset. ‘Give me less good things for more money’

Weren’t you running your own business at one point, or still are? It’s basics.

[wullie]

It's like when WCW had Goldberg beating Hogan for the title on Nitro rather than building to it on a ppv. Great tv and a massive crowd but it's money left on the table all the same

[Ben]

And a big turning point in that era.

[Baz]

Bryan Danielson with the broken orbital bone now. Out for the forseeable. A shame because he's very enjoyable to watch.Is he? He was, apparently, but now? Stick him in the same pile as Dark Order skits and Mox.

And yes MJF vs Omega was fantastic. I so thought Kenny had won it at the end, like a right mark.

[Ben]

Rollins said "cry me a river" in his promo. Punk to WWE confirmed.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1719419253890187414

How right is he, Waff?

[Gray Fox]

Is he? He was, apparently, but now? Stick him in the same pile as Dark Order skits and Mox.

And yes MJF vs Omega was fantastic. I so thought Kenny had won it at the end, like a right mark.

I enjoy watching. You might not but if we all liked the same thing then life would get boring fast.


In other news, apparently Blood Money will be the last time Roman is on screen until 2024. I know Trips loves a "hero fails the first time but builds himself back up to take down the bad guy" story, but it really is hammering home the point of getting the Mania match wrong. As has been discussed here, it's all just wheel spinning now until those few weeks he can be bothered to show up. You could have run bloodline drama as a story without having the title still strapped to him.

[Ben]

Completely agree.

But I heard a snippet of The Rock on Pat McAfee's show/podcast and it kind of explains why Roman retained over Cody this year. Basically The Rock was pencilled in for the match as far back as January 2022 and obviously you wouldn't have The Rock go over for the title, so the Bloodline storyline was being written so far out that they'd already decided what they were going to do with Roman and the title beyond that (ie. the run into WrestleMania 40) when The Rock had to eventually pull out. Cody just happened to be the hot guy at the time so they did a little segue to wedge him into the story and set up that match. Now obviously there's always an argument to change plans on the fly and run with what's hot (MJF's goofy team with Adam Cole for example) but it sounds like they'd invested so much time and planning into the Bloodline that they didn't want to rip it all up, even if the last few months have been a dud in hindsight.

[Waffdon]

1719419253890187414

How right is he, Waff?

Not far off. It’s hardly cold though.

WWE doesn’t use him enough, he’s so good

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Completely agree.

I love him.

[Ian]

He's fine, if you haven't yet had your fill of sparky WWE cheap heat chickenshit heels.

[Waffdon]

He’d be one of the top heels if given the chance. I thought we’d get something for him after he had The Rock calling him out on Twitter

[Browning]

https://cultaholic.com/posts/coronation-street-s-les-battersby-to-make-pro-wrestling-debut

That's it, wrestling has peaked.

[phonics]

Watching Dynamite for the first time in a while and I know Ben will be tuning in. We've gone from a 25 minute Orange Cassidy match straight into a Young Bucks Trios.

This has been an awful dyanmite so far. Can't wait for Tony's announcement to be dogshit too.

[phonics]

This has been horrendous start to finish. Rounding it out by bringing Big Show out to wrestle. If Ben would like a summary of my feelings about it all, I feel this sums it up

https://i.imgur.com/wVRgdKI.png

[Ben]

Tony's announcement. :D

Just tweet it mate.

[Waffdon]

It’s a shame it is being wasted for the Saudis because Reigns/Knight is absolutely golden. The match is also going to stink but I hope this solidifies Knight as the top dog.

[Ian]

I'm sure the bored Saudi businessmen in the front row will lap it up. They may even look up from their phones.

[Gray Fox]

It's Triple H in charge so the crowds chosen hero must fail at the first attempt. See previous: Jey Uso, Rhodes, Zayn, McIntyre.

He's apparently the top merch seller for October though.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

He's been the top merch seller for a few months in a row now I believe.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Catching up on WWE this week.

Creeds v Alpha Academy was fucking great. You can tell both teams absolutely loved it

Get the Creeds on the main roster.

Edit: Google says they have been called up but no brand assignment yet.

[Ian]

If being the top merch seller counted for anything WWE fans wouldn't have to spend so much time complaining that the people they like don't get pushed properly.

Maybe that'll change though. If Vince was in charge he'd have buried Knight out of spite for getting over without permission. Or he'd still just be Max Dupri.

[Waffdon]

The fact they had John Cena blowing smoke up his ass and literally fan boying him at times makes me think we’ll get him at the top for a while.

And then when the fans get bored he can turn heel and be the best in the business :drool:

[Gray Fox]

One thing I will say is Vince would(eventually) change his tune on a few people(Bryan and Kofi a couple off the top of the head examples), but if you were buried or turned into a comedy act, you were done with him. He definitely buried some for getting over without his say so though.

Trips definitely has his boys though. I'm sure Karrion Kross will appear for his 50th failed run again soon. This is going to be his first proper instance of massively over guy losing to the chosen champion that fans will be unable to try and pin on Vince.
Mania season is a good 3 months away yet but I do wonder what he will do if Knight is still as over then and Cody(who fans seemed to have cooled a bit on) comes knocking asking for his rematch.

[Ben]

They can get away with beating Knight because it’s in Saudi and a lot of fans pretend it never happened.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Obviously it's shit that the WWE are taking BLOOD MONEY but it feels great to watch a PLE at a good time.

'Mon LA Knight.

[Gray Fox]

'mon Drew. He's not winning I think but giving him the champs entrance gives hope.

[Gray Fox]

Drew deserves better.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

What the fuck is this entrance?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Solo wanting to punish Cena rather than go for an easy win is pretty cool.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I can't believe they actually put the title on that scumbag.

[Gray Fox]

They finally pulled the trigger on him huh.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Kairi Sane back :O

[Waffdon]

Fair play to Logan Paul for catching Rey mid air and stopping a proper botch

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Cleanest elbow drop in the game.

[Waffdon]

I didn’t realise I missed most of this PPV. Only two matches left?

Cena losing is stupid. He literally never wins. At least make him look credible

[Waffdon]

And McIntyre lost? For fuck sake.

They won’t give him the title as a heel

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I didn’t realise I missed most of this PPV. Only two matches left?

Cena losing is stupid. He literally never wins. At least make him look credible

He did take about 18 Samoan Spikes from Solo.

[Waffdon]

Should have them rematch in a no DQ match and have Cena choke Solo out with the turnbuckle like he did with his Da

[Gray Fox]

I'm sure I saw that Cena hasn't won a PLE match since 2018.

[Gray Fox]

Moves onto a table, that will actually do no greater damage because of how they're done, are a pet peeve of mine.

I'm hoping they don't just have Knight lose because bloodline distract him and HOW COULD WE SEE THAT COMING?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I'm sure I saw that Cena hasn't won a PLE match since 2018.

Singles one, yes.

He did win the tag with LA Knight last month.

Last win was at the GREATEST ROYAL RUMBLE in 2018 against Trips.

[Waffdon]

Moves onto a table, that will actually do no greater damage because of how they're done, are a pet peeve of mine.

I'm hoping they don't just have Knight lose because bloodline distract him and HOW COULD WE SEE THAT COMING?

That’s my only issue with Bloodline, Judgement Day and whatever Iyo Sky and her pals are called. There is literally interference in what feels like 50% of matches because them 3 dominate the matches that are on. I know they’re heels but let them win on their own eh

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

100% of Roman's matches.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

It's also what makes WALTER amazing.

He doesn't need his gimps, they're there just to take abuse from him when they fuck up.

[Gray Fox]

29 defences in 4 years? Christ.

[Waffdon]

God, I love LA Knight.

This is going to be an awful match but that’s fine. I wonder how many different people will appear at the ring. Or if any new gimps will debut to help Reigns

[Gray Fox]

Those wheels have got to spin.

[Waffdon]

Knight has been outside the ring for a good 2/3 minutes and the referee finally started counting :lol:

That’s some AEW level refereeing

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

God, I love LA Knight.

This is going to be an awful match but that’s fine. I wonder how many different people will appear at the ring. Or if any new gimps will debut to help Reigns

Rikishi does have another 2 kids...

[Gray Fox]

Saudi crowd loving Knight.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Same old shit, ugh.

[Waffdon]

That was a very underwhelming finish. I thought we’d get something a bit more exciting than that. Same old shit.

[Gray Fox]

Only thing missing from Bloodline bingo was the ref bump. It's like if Jinder Mahals title reign was over 4 years.

[Ben]

The only place I’m not interested in marking out for LA Knight is Saudi Arabia (the crowds are just weird) so I feel like I missed absolutely nothing today.

[Shindig]

TNA turned up in my youtube front page because Simon Miller's wrestling for them. For a man that's spent years on camera, his promos are horrendous.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1721240349136326891

This would be interesting.

[Ben]

It's weird that WWE is becoming a better place to be than AEW for these flashy wrestlers who are reliant mostly on their ring work to get over but that's exactly where we're at. Same with Dragon Lee, even his brother (Rush) told him not to sign with AEW because he'd be directionless in no time.

The benefit for AEW here is that Ospreay wants to keep living in Essex (lol) and Tony will let him do that.

[Waffdon]

Well if Reigns and Paul can be part time and hold Championships I don’t see why he can’t join up

[Ben]

He's nowhere near their level of popularity where he can demand that. Like many others (eg. Omega) he's insanely over in the NJPW/AEW bubble but outside of that nobody really gives a shit.

[Waffdon]

HHH is and he’s a fkn mark. Wouldn’t surprise me if he was signed to be the head of NXT Europe who occasionally fought at the big PPVs or what have you

[Baz]

If Ospreay isn’t at Wembley in August I’ll fucking bomb it.

[Shindig]

Rick O'Shea and Will O'Sprey as an Irish tag team is nailed on.

[Disco]

AEW will drive a truckload of cash up to his (Essex based) front door and he'll still be able to have the sort of matches he's become known for as well as keeping a relationship with New Japan. From a purely selfish point of view I would prefer he did that before doing a Nakamura and phoning in WWE matches much later in his career.

[Ian]

Hasn't Ospreay said he's more open to being in America full time now?

Maybe he's angling to go full time with whatever Impact is called this week.

[Baz]

Whatever he does I’m glad he introduced me to “blacksmith apparel” cos I wear my tracksuit with a B for Baz (https://blcksmth.co.uk/products/essentials-track-jacket) on it with pride (in the house).

[Ian]

1723156754714771662

I like when wrestlers make a fairly standard move look like a horrible thing has happened.

[Baz]

I’ve said it before, Dragon Lee is one of the best sellers around right now.

[Ben]

He has the tendency to forget when he’s on a comeback (that’s a standard problem these days though) but he’s great at making his opponent look a killer.

[Disco]

I still haven't quite forgiven him for nearly killing Hiromu.

[Ben]

Ronda Rousey just rocked up in Ring of Honor. :cab:

[Gray Fox]

She got all pissy when the casual WWE crowd wouldn't cheer her. Why does she think RoH/AEW is going to be any better?

[Waffdon]

Becky Lynch rocking up on Smackdown and suddenly making the brand exclusively absolutely pointless one month in. Same old shit

[Disco]

Since when has any sort of brand split ever lasted more than about 5 picoseconds in the WWE?

[phonics]

The only actual brand split was the CM Punk collision era.

Meanwhile in AEW there was an awful botch and the ref actually did their job and protected the wrestler. Miracles happen.

[Baz]

Meanwhile in AEW there was an awful botch and the ref actually did their job and protected the wrestler. Miracles happen.

What was it?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

But Jimmy cost Jey the tag titles so he couldn't appear on Smackdown...

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

What was it?

1725725498435584329

[Baz]

Of course it was Roderick Strong landing in his neck. :D

[Waffdon]

MJF burying BCG like they’re prime 3MB.

[Ben]

I thought it would be impossible for me to hate a MJF vs. Jay White match, yet here we are.

At least they’re pushing Toni Storm and Julia Hart though, even if the rest of the booking is nothing but self-sabotage.

[Gray Fox]

Announcing the return of a big star after a long time off, instead of just letting them show on the night to a massive pop, is becoming a pet peeve of mine.

[Ian]

Yeah at least have the big return pop on Raw, if people are gonna tune in to watch him wrestle on Saturday (when his music hitting will now not be a surprise) then have it happen there.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Randall to turn heel on Cody.

THE NEXT CHAPTER OF THE STORY.

[Ian]

Randall to turn heel on Cody.

This was my immediate thought too.

[Waffdon]

Announcing the return of a big star after a long time off, instead of just letting them show on the night to a massive pop, is becoming a pet peeve of mine.

That’s because they’re leaving it to CM Punk.

Gunther is now cutting proper heel promos. He might be the best in the world.

[Ben]

I've not been following a whole lot recently. Why is Sami Zayn in WarGames but Kevin Owens isn't?

[Ian]

Because of the brand split which can UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES BE BREACHED (except when it regularly is.)

Should've been Owens though.

[Ben]

They've split them? It seemed all primed for an Owens heel turn on Sami, which I know has already happened more times than Flair on Sting, but why bother foreshadowing it for months?

[Waffdon]

It’s meant Nick Aldis is an on screen character though so I’m all for it. I think we’re going to get him versus Owens down this line (though we’ve already technically had that with Shano)

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

They've split them? It seemed all primed for an Owens heel turn on Sami, which I know has already happened more times than Flair on Sting, but why bother foreshadowing it for months?

It was to further put a WEDGE between Owns and Jey, which is going to lead to nothing.

[wullie]

Nick Aldis was great on NWA Powerrrrrrr before the pandemic hit and it came back all weird, hopefully they plan for him to be a wrestler for them rather than just a lovely suit.

[Ben]

Blokes that big look stupid in suits but he manages to pull it off somehow.

[Waffdon]

John Cena is the worst. He looks like a manlet. Gotta be the smallest looking 6ft bloke around

[wullie]

Old footage of Evolution is always great for that, they tried to dress all fancy but Ric Flair was the only one who ever seemed to own clothes that actually fit him.

[Shindig]

I swear I've seen Meng in a suit and he carried it well.

[Baz]

I thought it would be impossible for me to hate a MJF vs. Jay White match, yet here we are.


Madness. The final 3 matches of Full Gear (Hangman-Swerve, Jericho&Omega-Bucks and MJF-White) were all outstanding.

[Ben]

I can't even be bothered listing why they were all bad (especially the stupid "death match") so we'll just leave it at that.

[Baz]

Did you not even pop for MJFs elbow drop?

[Ben]

Not really, because every match on the undercard had its own crazy spot so you become numb to these things when it's happening all the time. MJF's elbow could have been a big thing were it the only spot like that on the show but when you've had clowns like Hangman drinking blood 30 minutes earlier, the effect of an elbow drop is somewhat diminished.

They've gone for this over-the-top sports entertainment babyface MJF, which is fine but it's not the best use of him and that style of match needs nowhere near 30 minutes. I was ready to enjoy this match because I like both guys but I found my mind wandering by the halfway point. And the logic that a heel can just beat up a champion to take his belt is absurd, it's never been done before like this for a reason.

[phonics]

It's not real wrestling unless there's a 12 minute headlock spot.

[Baz]

"I didn't like this good thing because lots of the things before it were good too and made this one less good" is such a strange take on anything.

[Ben]

It's not real wrestling unless there's a 12 minute headlock spot.

Didn't think it'd be long before you popped along.

Of course there's no middle ground here. If I don't like crazy spot fests non-stop for four hours then I must want headlocks instead.

[Ben]

"I didn't like this good thing because lots of the things before it were good too and made this one less good" is such a strange take on anything.

Crazy =/= good

[phonics]

No Baz, he needs multiple hours of 12 minute headlocks so that when the good thing happens once you're really invested in it because you've been bored into, ironically, submission before that.

[wullie]

I only saw highlight clips but I could really do without ever seeing someone drinking blood again.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

No vampire TV shows or films for Wullie.

[phonics]

Fuego Del Sol crying 'Won't someone think of the children' is all the proof I needed that that was cool.

[Waffdon]

It's not real wrestling unless there's a 12 minute headlock spot.

Or making out you’re injured just to do every spot imaginable and then go back to looking injured again after the match.

MJF trying to emulate his hero Super Cena a bit too much.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

AKA the Rollins.

[Ian]

So for the 'find the two Pointless answers to top up the jackpot' bit yesterday Pointless had WWE wrestlers. So for anybody who doesn't know the format for this round it's identify the two pointless ones, there are two correct but not pointless ones and two incorrect answers. They had:
Triple H
Kofi Kingston
Dani Ardor
Kurt Angle
Torrie Wilson
Milo of Croton

Triple H - 7
Kofi Kingston - 2
Dani Ardor - incorrect (Florence Pugh's character in Midsommar)
Kurt Angle - 0
Torrie Wilson - 0
Milo of Croton - incorrect (a 6th century BC Greek wrestler.)

Really didn't expect Angle to be the other pointless one with Wilson. :D

[Ben]

AKA the Rollins.

Imagine ten years ago we'd be saying Reigns is the best seller out of the three.

[SvN]

So for the 'find the two Pointless answers to top up the jackpot' bit yesterday Pointless had WWE wrestlers. So for anybody who doesn't know the format for this round it's identify the two pointless ones, there are two correct but not pointless ones and two incorrect answers. They had:
Triple H
Kofi Kingston
Dani Ardor
Kurt Angle
Torrie Wilson
Milo of Croton

Triple H - 7
Kofi Kingston - 2
Dani Ardor - incorrect (Florence Pugh's character in Midsommar)
Kurt Angle - 0
Torrie Wilson - 0
Milo of Croton - incorrect (a 6th century BC Greek wrestler.)

Really didn't expect Angle to be the other pointless one with Wilson. :D
I would've 100% gone with Kofi as the other one, but I suppose a lot of people know him because of the New Day. Still, poor Kurt.

[Ian]

Yeah I was very confident Kofi would be the other.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Milo of Croton would be a great British wrestling name.

[Ian]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milo_of_Croton#Feats_of_strength

Those feats of strength could be the vignettes WWE film before he debuts.

[Ben]

He'd definitely have the Iron Claw as a finisher.

[Ian]

Or he'd annoy Vince and "holds pomegranates" would become his whole gimmick.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

"He would train in the off years by carrying a newborn calf on his back every day until the Olympics took place. By the time the events were to take place, he was carrying a four-year-old cow on his back. He carried the full-grown cow the length of the stadium, then proceeded to kill, roast, and eat it."

:D

What a man.

[Waffdon]

Another 5 card PPV for Survivor Series this weekend. No World Titles on the line and not even a single person from the Bloodline even showing up. LA Knight doing nothing either.

CM Punk must be showing up.

[Gray Fox]

If you believe the dirty sheets, WWE are currently trying hard to get everyone to believe he's not showing and Randy is the big return.

[Ian]

I can't decide if the Nakamura stuff around that is a bit on the nose or not.

It'll be a fun pop if he does return, then fun again when he's gone by February .

[Ian]

I'm watching the Shield vs. New Day Survivor Series tag match as Youtube suggested it to me.

I miss New Day being important.

I miss Big E. :(

[Waffdon]

The Shield v Wyatt Family for the first time was good as well

[Ian]

The Shield v Wyatt Family for the first time was good as well

Don't you worry my man, it's also on my list of bookmarked matches to watch / rewatch. :cool:

Don't think Shield vs. Evolution is on Youtube, I'll need to check. The thing I loved about peak Shield in trios matches was how they were constantly moving. Very little downtime. Always either working a tag, doing quick tags, whatever. There was a relentlessness to them in those matches that a) made them great to watch and b) really sold the gimmick.

[Gray Fox]

I miss Big E. :(

Everything I read about him says he should be greatful he can walk about, never mind get in the ring again. I'm not sure we see him back unfortunately. New Day have been nothing since he went out.

[Ian]

Yeah I'm working under the assumption he never comes back as a wrestler. Stranger things have happened and might be one of those where give it a few years and he might actually be good to go but best to assume not.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I'm surprised they haven't offered him mountains of cash to be a commentator.

[Shindig]

I don't think he fits as a commentator. I'd take him over Barrett but it looks like he and Cole are getting along alright.

[Ian]

Cole is genuinely solid now he doesn't have Vince bellowing down his ear every three seconds, and him and Barrett are a good combo but it's bad for all involved that they're having babysit Kevin Patrick who is shiiiiiit.

[Baz]

I’m sure AEW will let him have a ladder match with Darby Allin.

[Waffdon]

Having Damage CTRL lose is just a bit dumb. Why do faces always have to win these sort of matches? Bayley taking the pin helps with that storyline down the line but still a bit stupid. Can’t have Charlotte and Becky lose I guess

[Waffdon]

And the faces win again. Hopefully that’s the end of Judgement Day versus this lot every week on Raw

[Waffdon]

And I missed the Punk pop because they were celebrating too long and I assumed it was over. Fuck sake :D

[Disco]

Lol at the waster going back to WWE after all the shit he talked about them, we should have a sweepstake on how long until toys are thrown.

[Gray Fox]

Death. Taxes. CM Punk returns in Chicago.

I can't wait for the promo tomorrow. "I'm only here because there's been a change at the top. It's not like that nasty unnamed last place where I was, where the mark in charge only gave me my own whole new show I couldn't last a couple months on"

[Ben]

They won’t let him say that. AEW means nothing to 99% of WWE fans. Now TKO is boss, there’s a whole lot of money to be made and you’d think he’ll toe the line at least for a little while.

[Gray Fox]

It does seem they didn't tell a lot of top talent that Pepsi Phil was coming back either. Drew stormed out of the arena slamming doors and Rollins was at the bottom of the ramp giving him the finger and shouting fuck you over and over.

The latter is likely a work but already ruffling feathers :D

[Baz]

Did his legs survive his entrance?

[phonics]

Can’t wait to see yet more absolutely awful matches that some marks say are the best matches of all time because he copied a headlock sequence that Brett Hart did on a Nitro in 1994.

[Disco]

As if any of those stories about people storming out are true, it's wrestling you dweebs.

[Shindig]

Him strutting out in a plain white t-shirt like a nobody.

[Ian]

Lol at the waster going back to WWE after all the shit he talked about them, we should have a sweepstake on how long until toys are thrown.

He might behave himself until Mania if it's been suggested he might get the night 1 main event. Or he could be gone in a fortnight.

[Waffdon]

Punk :cool:

[Mike]

Still the biggest draw in the business ;)

[wullie]

You'd hope that in a company with a bit more structure he won't get into the same scrapes but it's not something I'd put big money on. Hopefully it works out as he can put a match together better than most and talk people into the building, the Rollins thing seems too convenient not to be put on as well.

Do they still have the doctor that he was talking about in the podcast years ago?

[igor_balis]

Milo of Croton would be a great British wrestling name.

Sounds too much like Sargon of Akkad

[Baz]

i'M ON THE GRASS

https://i.imgur.com/2sxZlac.png

[Ben]

That's a very old picture of Moxley. Guy has lost all his hair and wrestling ability since that was taken.

[Waffdon]

i'M ON THE GRASS

https://i.imgur.com/2sxZlac.png

They’ll be lucky to get 40k this time around. Will lie and say they sold 60k though.

[Baz]

Not bothered. Could be attendance of 2 and still be awesome.

[Ben]

They need to get the title on Swerve ASAP.

[Shindig]

Not bothered. Could be attendance of 2 and still be awesome.

Fast forward a year to Baz and another bloke in an empty stadium trying to start a "This is awesome." chant.

[phonics]

Ian, am I the only one that gets told off for being negative about things?

[wullie]

Are they doing a massive stage for Wembley this time? I like a smaller stage with arenas as it looks more alive but with big stadiums it's good to go ridiculous, plus it gives Darby Allin something to jump off.

[Ian]

Ian, am I the only one that gets told off for being negative about things?

I nearly replied to the three of you having the same row after every AEW show the other day but decided I didn't have the energy for it.

That said there's a difference between "I thought that thing was shit" and your "I felt differently about this to you and thus I'm going to take.it extremely personally and call you a cunt" aggro bullshit but I've taken to mostly just skimming over any posts that are following an AEW show now.

Ben could probably do with watching a lot less wrestling though, or stop watching things he's predictably not going to like.

Though even that can have its pitfalls, such as me over the weekend assuming even the Miz could have a good match with Gunther and being wrong.

[Ian]

Also even in bants Baz is never gonna have a worse time at a PPV than that time 7om was sat behind a pillar at Mania.

[Ben]

Ben could probably do with watching a lot less wrestling though, or stop watching things he's predictably not going to like.

I actually am watching less recently, and almost next to no AEW. But I predicted I was going to really like MJF vs. Jay White, as I've liked White for years and MJF is the best thing they've got, not my fault they booked it into oblivion.

First time I've moaned about the company self-sabotaging for a while then Professor Headlock had to go and drag the conversation down.

[Ian]

Professor Headlock should absolutely be a wrestling name.

[Ben]

Phonics will hate it but someone should absolutely do it in AEW, as a big anti-flippy shit gimmick. Mick Foley did the anti-hardcore thing in ECW and it was hilarious.

[wullie]

Reminds me of Jericho's group calling themselves 'sports entertainers' as if that would stand out in a company with a sloth in sunglasses, a very nice demon, whatever the fuck Brandon Cutler is, etc

[Baz]

Are they doing a massive stage for Wembley this time? I like a smaller stage with arenas as it looks more alive but with big stadiums it's good to go ridiculous, plus it gives Darby Allin something to jump off.

Meant to be yeah. I checked last years seating plan and got spooked by section F not being very good but it’s completely different this year due to the massive stage plans, apparently.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Finally finished WARGAMES!, the RKO was pretty swish.

Shame about the utter twat Punk being back though.

[Ian]

Taking that RKO must have suuuuuuuuuuuuuuucked given he's basically just doing a no-cushion belly flop off the top of the cage.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Having Damage CTRL lose is just a bit dumb. Why do faces always have to win these sort of matches? Bayley taking the pin helps with that storyline down the line but still a bit stupid. Can’t have Charlotte and Becky lose I guess

Yeah it was stupid. I don't think Damage CTRL have ever won a match as a collective.

Not sure why they felt the need to have Becky and Charlotte BURYING THE HATCHET be the main story.

Damage CTRL winning and showcasing their ultimate power now that they have Asuka would have been class.

[Ian]

Well they lost because they're gonna kick Bayley out, and then hopefully can be good.

EDIT: Not that Bayley isn't great, to be clear, but I mean once they've done that if Damage CTRL can then be allowed to be good I'd appreciate it.

[Waffdon]

Sasha banks to come back and save Bayley.

[Gray Fox]

At this point we need face Bayley back, so I can see why they're doing it.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Well they lost because they're gonna kick Bayley out, and then hopefully can be good.

EDIT: Not that Bayley isn't great, to be clear, but I mean once they've done that if Damage CTRL can then be allowed to be good I'd appreciate it.

Yeah but they could have won and the rest of them could end up saying that Bayley offered nothing.

[Ian]

Eh, I think they look dumb booting Bayley for no reason if they win, at least unless you'd been laying it on thicker that Kai was trying to oust her or something.

This gives them that grain of justification they need, they can batter fuck out of her and then Bayley comes back to a big face pop. Maybe at the Rumble.

[Shindig]

Would it not be more on brand for her to leave amicably and hug the bastards?

[Waffdon]

The taller Creed brother is an absolute freak of nature

[

[Ian]

Gopd pop, good delivery as ever, but if they weren't gonna set anything up Punk's promo could have been an email.

[Ben]

They probably get a week's grace on that I say. Everyone just wanted to chant CM Punk so let them have it. As long as they set something up next week it'll be fine. Hopefully they don't send out a sacrificial lamb to take a pin in a quick feud to get him off the mark. Slow burn a few things, put him in the Rumble and go with the Rollins match at Mania.

Punk was enjoyable on Collision (for me anyway, as a headlock connoisseur) partly because he kept the fire burning with several talents at the same time (Joe, Starks, White), meaning everything was interesting.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I have seen Punk but I stopped watching when he was in his PRIME for WWE (including the whole Pipebomb thing), so I just can't understand why he's that over.

Especially so in Chicago, do they not have any other decent wrestlers from the city (Mustapha Ali is better than Punk for starters, fuck you all and fuck Vince) that they can go mental for?

[Shindig]

It's all down to his mic work and there's probably an expectation the next pipebomb is round the corner.

[wullie]

If WWE want to keep the momentum of top flight returns and debuts up, QT Marshall will be on the market soon.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

The taller Creed brother is an absolute freak of nature

[

Needs to be pushed to the moon.

He's amazing.

[Waffdon]

The other ones alright too but he’s definitely going to fuck someone up badly with that finisher if he doesn’t define it

[phonics]

You've got to love the ego on this guy. Barely a legend of his own lunchtime and he wants to be a star?

1729455125906038917

The worst thing about AEW was the endless, oh here comes the QT marshall push again.

[wullie]

I could see him helping out with training or whatever but surely he's got no chance on-screen.

[Baz]

Take Dustin while you’re at it

[Ben]

QT is fucking death and almost took Hobbs down with him.

[Ben]

Take Dustin while you’re at it

Dustin as in Chuck Taylor? If so I agree, he looks horrid and wrestles horrid.

[phonics]

Rhodes. Golddust.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

The "Yeet" chants are so fucking annoying.

[Ben]

Rhodes. Golddust.

Why though? He's not hurting anyone. He's barely on screen and is a great hand to have backstage.

[Ian]

The "Yeet" chants are so fucking annoying.

Is this literally just them having made it a thing by having Jey do it? Because yeah, it's shit.

[Waffdon]

I'm pretty sure he kept doing it in a press conference after one of the PPVs whilst he was absolutely blootered. Either way, he's pretty shit overall. Much prefer him over on Smackdown.

[Ian]

Oh after the Cody tag match? I see.

But yeah, while he's doing well to still have the fans digging him he's a bit nothing as a singles guy.

[Ben]

Just to play fair to the AEW gang, I'll state I actively hate any match involving an Uso. They're both terrible. Their character work has taken off in this Bloodline stuff but bell-to-bell they can get to fuck.

[Ian]

Even as tag wrestlers? Because they've had some great tag matches. Though admittedly probably always against good teams, they aren't getting anything out of e.g. the Bludgeon Brothers like the New Day sort of did (and with other middling teams.)

[wullie]

I've found Jimmy a lot of fun as the deluded stand-in, not sure I want to see them against each other though which I guess is the eventual plan.

[Ben]

Even as tag wrestlers? Because they've had some great tag matches. Though admittedly probably always against good teams, they aren't getting anything out of e.g. the Bludgeon Brothers like the New Day sort of did (and with other middling teams.)

Well no not really. I thought the match with Owens and Zayn at Mania was one of the most overrated matches in a long time. Admittedly a lot of the issues weren’t the Usos fault but I can’t recall a good one off the top of my head.

[Ian]

The three they had against the New Day in 2017/18 were quality, they had some good ones against the Wyatts and Shield further back than that but their best work was definitely after they first turned heel.

[7om]

Haven’t watched in a while and just realised that page on dailymotion with all the links has gone. Is there a replacement?

[Shindig]

Sunny's gone down for 17 years for killing an old man.

[Ian]

Haven’t watched in a while and just realised that page on dailymotion with all the links has gone. Is there a replacement?

Can't remember what the current domain is but if you Google "watch wrestling" you should something I assume will be similar to the daily motion one. Used to be .in but I think that one got shut down

[Ben]

.ai the last time I used it.

[7om]

Lovely, thank you.

[Ben]

So I've just ignored everything we've talked about in the last page or two and gone and watched Dynamite from last night.

Seriously though, I never had any plans to watch it but the Edge/Christian segment popped up on my YouTube so naturally I watched it (Christian is fucking awesome, you see). And then the MJF and Joe segment was recommended next and I love both of them too so I watched that and actually there's 20 minutes of good TV I've just seen. I thought fuck it, I'll give the whole episode a go (I checked the match card, and we had a Swerve vs. Jay White main event so I didn't go in completely blind).

It was actually pretty great. The Edge and Christian segment was really well written and when you've got the best heel and mic worker in there, you can't fail. MJF cut the quintessential babyface promo which was a little jarring but it worked, although the dynamic with Joe coming to save him was a bit weird given they've pushed him as a wrecking ball for months. The Moxley match sucked dick, because Moxley is awful. Rush and Briscoe had a really decent match, I'm a sucker for Rush's dickhead style. Wardlow squashes are the best way to use him so let's hope it's tenth time lucky there with that push. Nobody wants to see the Hardys in 10 minute matches though so I skipped that one. Julia Hart has superstar potential. And the main event was really good, nothing outrageous but a good professional match and Swerve getting the win is hopefully a big sign that they're strapping the rocket on him.

Is Orange Cassidy dead? Not like Tony to not book him in a match, and wouldn't you know it, it was one of their best efforts. But I'm sure that's coincidental.

phonics Baz drink it in, because this is probably the best you're getting out of me.

[Waffdon]

MJF turning into a babyface was such an awful decision. Or at least he can’t play one very well. You don’t need to change your character to be a good or bad gay, certainly not to the extent he has.

[Ben]

I certainly agree there. He's got the mic skills to make the promos work, but people got behind him as a babyface because he still cheated and looked after himself (imagine if Stone Cold came out and started acting like a clean cut babyface). It was a good fired up promo but like I noted, it got weird when Joe came to his rescue. I'm not sure what the longevity is here with a pure babyface run although they're obviously positioning him for the Devil reveal so the payoff needs to be sooner rather than later. If the Devil is fucking Jack Perry then I'm done with wrestling forever. Cole is the obvious one (and the right one) but we all know how marks love a swerve (small s, not Swerve Strickland).

[phonics]

MJF's injured so I think it'll just be plate spinning time.

[Ian]

So has MKF been more squeaky clean as a face then? Because yeah I'd have thought you'd want some cheaty Eddie in there (as a person who's watched way less of him than you guys. )

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

MKF is his brother?

[Ian]

Yes, yes, very good.

[Ben]

So has MKF been more squeaky clean as a face then? Because yeah I'd have thought you'd want some cheaty Eddie in there (as a person who's watched way less of him than you guys. )

Seems to be leaning more and more that way every week. I'm not sure how long it can last because you take a belt off a clean cut babyface and he's in big danger of just being another guy, whereas the classic MJF could survive/thrive without it. So he must be going really long term with the belt. Or this thing is one big massive swerve.

[Waffdon]

MJF also has a filthy obsession with WWE, which has got a bit boring.

[Ben]

It only makes sense in AEW lore if he gives WWE the finger and re-signs. Tony will look incredibly small time if he fucks off after mentioning them non-stop for 12 months.

[Waffdon]

He’s definitely going to stay there. Will be the top man for life and get paid as much as he would in WWE. I’m pretty sure he’s probably already signed

I do actually think his style would suit WWE more than he and a lot of others probably think it would.

[Ben]

He's definitely in that small handful that certainly would benefit more from WWE. But he also seems to be the type that wants to write (or at least contribute to) his own storylines. Cody accepted that by going back he lost that privilege, but it was certainly for the best because he doesn't have that gift (and seemingly neither does Danielson). Punk, fuck knows. It's whether MJF could accept that; if he could then the sky is the limit for him in WWE but not everyone has the same goals.

[Waffdon]

Cody Rhodes is great but he’s really been fucked over a bit. Tearing his pec wasn’t ideal but losing to Reigns and then ‘finishing his story’ by being in feuds with The Judgement Day and Nakamura is a bit shite. There are too many big stars that are face. Knight, Rhodes, Punk, Orton, Rollins, Owens, Zayn and I suppose Jey Uso as well.

Punk and Rollins are both better at being heels but I presume they’ll turn Rollins. Either that or just not turn either of them.

[Ben]

They'll not turn Rollins because everyone likes to WOAH to his music. Shite, but true. Punk would be a great heel for a variety of reasons but the crowd won't let it happen for a while.

WWE really struggle with heels, and always have done. Either the guy is really popular so the crowd turn him face against the booker's wishes (see: LA Knight) or they're just glorified pin eaters. WWE has always been a babyface-on-top company so it's rare they let a heel be successful enough for long enough. They see the money in the babyface as the champion, rather than in the chase. Even great heels like Randy Savage ended up babyface again pretty quickly. Gunther is literally all they've got in that department (Reigns and his four matches a year don't count). And it's why most of their matches are cut and paste, because nobody on the heel side actually needs to work heel, so they don't learn how to work heel, so the match is forgotten a minute after they're back through the curtain because there's no heat. It's no coincidence Gunther matches are the best matches.

Anyway, I digress. I don't see Orton being full-time enough to be one of the top heels. Everybody else you listed is either not able to be the top heel or the crowd won't allow it. They need MJF. He would get a monster pop then turn them within minutes.

[Ian]

I think McIntyre could be a good heel if they properly lean into it. He's a solid talker but he's not so charismatic that the crowd would just automatically refuse to boo him or insist on cheering him, he doesn't have catchy music or a catchphrase that they'll never stop parrotting and he can stop the 1-2-3-Claymore thing easy enough.

You're broadly right that WWE much prefer to have a big dominant babyface to keep putting the title on, but right now they're also stymied by Reigns hogging the belt(s) because there's such a hard ceiling for any other top heels. Not that I'm sure HHH will be the guy to fix that because he was a great heel for a few years and then a very wearisome one for a very long time.

Also doesn't help that WWE crowds these days often meet heel antics (and indeed everything) with stony silence. Who actually gets proper boos currently? Gunther, Dom......... that about it?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

He could do "1-2" then tell the crowd to fuck off with that shit the first time he goes to do a Claymore as a heel.

[Ben]

You'll probably disagree but I don't think Dominik gets proper boos either. He did at the beginning but now it's just a trope that the crowd turn up to boo his promos out of the building before he can even say a word, a practice which has unfortunately bled into other wrestlers and other companies. Dominik's push finishes when the crowd get bored of drowning out his promos. Only Gunther gets proper heat (and Reigns when he fancies it).