The Ultimate WWE Thread

[Ben]

Nobody loves Johnny Gargano.

[Ian]

I didn't even care for Gargano that much during his peak Black and Gold run but he's been a total dud since his return so far, albeit it with not a lot to work with.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

He did have a decent showing in the Rumble though and looked great in the chamber.

[Waffdon]

Yeah, the finish was wank. Made Zayn look a bit weak. I was just assuming he was kicking out of the spear. Ah well

[phonics]

I didn't mind it as I think they were a bit stuck unless they were going to give Sami the belt and fuck Cody off but frankly once Sami wins I have no idea where you go from there anyway.

My only issue was the refs going full AEW from forgetting to do countouts to bumping all over the shop and then popping back up when needed. I've never understood the second ref thing because if that ref is legitimate why can he not just run in and DQ you for what he's seen before. It's not like there's a ref tag system.

I thought the Chamber match was very good considering it was filled with largely dorks. The Seth Rollins/Gargano moment on top of the pod was great. I would have had Rollins win it after the interference and have Paul v Rollins for the belt myself but it's not like they need the belt to help build to what's definitely going to be an absolute banger at Mania between those two.

Brock v Bray Wyatt is going to be an absolute mess. Brocks not going to put up with any of the spooky shit and I can seriously believe Brock going into business for himself.

[Browning]

Lesnar shooting on Wyatt would be the best Mania moment ever.

[phonics]

I know he’s chilled out a bit in recent years but no chance is he letting a fat guy in a top hat called Uncle Howdy make him look like a pussy.

[wullie]

Wyatt challenged the winner which explains why Lesnar got himself DQ'd, he didn't want any part of the Fanta Pineapple and Grapefruit Calypso Death Match.

[Gray Fox]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tlehw0A7wuI&ab_channel=WWE

They played this during the PLE and I'm not sure I could hate anything more.

[Ben]

He's such a pain in the arse these days. The cunt isn't even heel.

[wullie]

I noticed that alongside that they have started adding really long videos inbetween matches on PPVs, not even relevant stuff but like a three minute Miz video and that kind of thing. Is it that the US version on Peacock has ad breaks or something like that?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

They get those videos too. It's for piss/food break for fans at the arena, no?

[wullie]

If you go back to even fairly recent ones they're not as many or as long as they seem to be now, something's definitely changed. Although who doesn't want a Miz career highlight reel?

[Ben]

It's for piss/food break for fans at the arena, no?

This is what I assumed. WWE don't have the luxury of having Elite matches on their shows so fans have to go for refreshments between matches instead.

[Ian]

This is what I assumed. WWE don't have the luxury of having Elite matches on their shows so fans have to go for refreshments between matches instead.

:D

[Ian]

Just heard a thing on Wrestletalk and looked this up about Edge's matches vs. Judgement Day, because I remember when he first returned and made a big song and dance about how it wasn't about him winning all the time, it was about him being involved in good stories.

So after being fresh off beating AJ THREE TIMES in various forms:
- 22.08.2022 Edge defeats Damian Priest
- 03.09.2022 Edge & Rey Mysterio defeat The Judgment Day (Damian Priest & Finn Balor)
- 12.09.2022 Edge defeats Dominik Mysterio by DQ (15:10)
- 08.10.2022 I Quit: Finn Balor defeats Edge (29:39)
- 18.02.2023 Mixed: Beth Phoenix & Edge defeat The Judgment Day (Finn Balor & Rhea Ripley)

So one defeat, and that was just because Team Purple were threatening Beth.

And Edge will be beating Balor at 'Mania too. Great story lads.

[Ben]

It's shit, honestly. I only watch their segments because Dominik is a hilarious chickenshit heel and Rhea is the next superstar.

Also, WrestleTalk is still a thing? :cab:

[wullie]

Judgment Day were really rubbish at first with Edge rambling on but feels like they've hit on something great with Prison Dom in particular. Finn Balor's probably the least convincing part of it now, just whacks a Daft Punk helmet on and snarls a bit.

[Ian]

I do genuinely quite like Judgement Day now. There's enough there that I'm happy when they're on the show and as Ben says, Rhea is brilliant. But constantly jobbing to Edge... not so much.

Prison Dom is great too, though I don't really want to watch him wrestle.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Just heard a thing on Wrestletalk and looked this up about Edge's matches vs. Judgement Day, because I remember when he first returned and made a big song and dance about how it wasn't about him winning all the time, it was about him being involved in good stories.

So after being fresh off beating AJ THREE TIMES in various forms:
- 22.08.2022 Edge defeats Damian Priest
- 03.09.2022 Edge & Rey Mysterio defeat The Judgment Day (Damian Priest & Finn Balor)
- 12.09.2022 Edge defeats Dominik Mysterio by DQ (15:10)
- 08.10.2022 I Quit: Finn Balor defeats Edge (29:39)
- 18.02.2023 Mixed: Beth Phoenix & Edge defeat The Judgment Day (Finn Balor & Rhea Ripley)

So one defeat, and that was just because Team Purple were threatening Beth.

And Edge will be beating Balor at 'Mania too. Great story lads.

I was stunned they didn't have Rhea pin Beth. Make her look as strong as possible going into Mania.

[Ben]

That would be the logical finish wouldn't it? But I don't think it matters either way for Rhea anyway, she's fucking winning and I'm ready for it (babyface Charlotte is trash).

[Ian]

Rhea should win, but I can never fully rule out a Charlottewinslol.


I was stunned they didn't have Rhea pin Beth.

You appear to have forgotten their respective ages.

[Ian]

Last night's Raw sounds pretty poo. Lita now being a womens tag champ is a bit of silly nostalgia fun though, given those titles have never been made to feel important.

Brock vs. Omos and Lashley vs. Bray both seem to be going ahead though. :D What a waste of both. Not that I wanted to see them wrestling each other either.

[Ben]

Outside of Cody vs. Roman and Charlotte vs. Rhea, it's shaping up to be proper shit. Even if it's a big ol' swerve to get back to Brock vs. Bobby again, fuck that.

I don't think I'll even care about the inevitable Zayn and Owens vs. Usos either but I'll give it a chance. Hopefully Logan Paul beats Franklin.

[Ian]

Fingers crossed that with Asuka Belair can have the best match of the weekend third year on the bounce. :nodd:

I still think Rollins invariably has good matches and Paul is annoyingly good but I simply can't look forward to anything with him involved.

Charlotte vs. Rhea should be excellent, but then I'm struggling to remember the last proper great match Charlotte had. Doesn't help that there's always the fear she just wins even when she shouldn't. Like the last time they had a Mania match. :moop:

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Nah she'll lose the title only to win it back within a few months to pad the amount of reigns she's had.

Has to beat Papa.

[Ben]

My biggest fear with the Charlotte match is that she's a much better heel, and that includes her ring work. Rhea is a tremendous heel out of the ring but she's a brilliant seller, a quality normally of a quintessential babyface. I have a sneaky suspicion that if Rhea is winning, Charlotte will make sure she dominates the match so if we are to enjoy it then we need to forget who is babyface and who is heel because a babyface dominating a heel only to then lose is arse about face. Obviously 99% of fans don't care about stuff like that but it'll get a scathing review from me.

[Gray Fox]

I was worried it was never going to happen, but worry not lads. Finn Balor has challenged Edge for a match at Wrestlemania.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Is there a stipulation meaning Edge can grind out a GRITTY 30 minute plus match?

[Gray Fox]

He's already had The Greatest Wrestling Match.

At this point though the Judgement Day has entirely existed to just have all 4 of them feud with Edge. There was that brief time they threatened to do a proper thing with AJ Styles, but yeah...

[phonics]

This Mania looks really, really, really shitty which is a shame. It's like they're legally not allowed to do more than one good one every 5 years.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

https://wrestlingnews.co/wwe-news/report-vince-mcmahon-decided-on-brock-lesnar-vs-omos-for-wwe-wrestlemania

Vince does have pull it seems.

Also I lolled at: "I’m told the highly anticipated, very compelling".

Highly anticipated by whom?

[Shindig]

Vince McMahon.

[Ben]

AEW Revolution on Sunday (I thought AEW normally did Saturdays?). Pretty stacked card which is to be expected with only four PPVs per year. Having said that, I'm not too hyped for this. Let's have a look shall we:

Chris Jericho vs. Ricky Starks - they've really cooled off my man Ricky. Fucking Jericho is turgid these days and even if Starks wins (I mean, that should be a given but you never know with Jericho) it'll do fuck all for him.

The Elite (Kenny Omega, Matt Jackson & Nick Jackson) (c) vs. The House Of Black (Brody King, Buddy Matthews & Malakai Black) - oh man this will be awesome. I can't wait for the all action, no sell wrestling. The Elite are fresh off that basketball match on Rampage which really showed how awesome wrestling can be. Just like Dave, I've got 5 stars pencilled in for this bad boy already.

Jamie Hayter (c) vs. Saraya vs. Ruby Soho - speaking of cooling off folk, what are they doing to Jamie Hayter? They fumbled an easy money match versus a heel Britt Baker to do this wank feud with WWE "invaders" or whatever they are. Saraya is arguably Tony's biggest waste of money in AEW, and that list is as long as his lines of coke, so tough competition.

The Gunns (Austin Gunn & Colten Gunn) (c) vs. Jay Lethal & Jeff Jarrett vs. Danhausen & Orange Cassidy vs. The Acclaimed (Anthony Bowens & Max Caster) - hey there's a theme here! The Acclaimed are going down the tubes fast as well thanks to that shitty booking decision for the Gunns to win the titles. Nobody wants to watch this stupid four way match. It'll probably end up with The Acclaimed pinning one of the comedy idiots to win them back and nobody will care because all the heat is gone.

Jon Moxley vs. Adam Page - what a bizarre feud this is. We've seen it already twice in recent weeks and I still have no idea who is babyface and who is heel. Moxley will throw bad forearms and bleed everywhere, the crowd will chant "THIS IS AWESOME! FIGHT FOREVER!" and everyone will go home happy apart from me.

Samoa Joe (c) vs. Wardlow - another fucked feud. If they did this back at Full Gear it would have been amazing. Alas, Joe has already lost and regained the title since then and Wardlow looks like a right geek. Remember when this guy was over too?

MJF (c) vs. Bryan Danielson - Baz can't wait for this one. 60 minutes of Danielson. :drool: There's always a chance this could end up dragging but I have faith in MJF's heel tactics to make the stipulation work.

So yeah, now I've typed that out I've talked myself out of it. Tony has really fucked it recently.

[wullie]

Is he doing all the ROH stuff as well?

[Ben]

Apparently. :D

Unfortunately it's his pipe dream to play out EWR/TEW in real life so even though it's unsustainable he's just going to plough on. It wasn't any coincidence that the best storylines AEW had was when Punk was around because he had the pull to input creatively over Tony and he had a decent head for it unlike lunatics like Jericho.

[Baz]

Looking forward to Buddy Matthews vs Kenny Omega more than anything.

[Ben]

Another AEW amateur hour in the ladder match last night: two and even three refs visibly holding the ladders so they could execute all their spots. Say what you want about Vince, but he wouldn’t allow such shit on his television.

It’s just sad. AEW could be great but they just keep fumbling the ball.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

The pictures of that are fantastic.

Also, for someone who doesn't follow AEW. What the fuck was that golden ring/doughnut?

[phonics]

The pictures of that are fantastic.

Also, for someone who doesn't follow AEW. What the fuck was that golden ring/doughnut?

I would like to stress that this is not a joke. This is actually in canon.

To win an AEW ladder match you have to grab the brass ring, brother. A literal Vince McMahon reference.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

It just looks like Cocaine Tony has been playing too much Sonic.

[Ian]

All that stuff makes them look incredibly small time.

[Ben]

Tony needs to decide if he wants a successful promotion or if he wants to die on his sword. If it’s the former, it’s an easy fix: hire a booker. Look at the Revolution card, I’d be hyped for all those matches (except the Elite cosplay session) had a logical booker written the storylines. Instead I care about just one match.

[phonics]

It just looks like Cocaine Tony has been playing too much Sonic.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FNNjh7CWYAM6cKX.jpg

[Shindig]

It doesn't need to be that huge. :D

[Disco]

Their last six months have been terrible, Dynamite has gone from the first wrestling show that I watch to one that I catch up with every few weeks. Hopefully NJ continues to pick up as everything else is a bit shit.

[Ben]

I completely fell off New Japan during the pandemic. The whole clapping only crowd thing was bad for them and their booking got lazy as a result (EVIL ffs). I only enjoyed Jay White, KENTA and ZSJ during that period. It’s not to say the pandemic should have even been an excuse, crowdless ROH was brilliant for instance.

WK this year hopefully is the beginning of the comeback for them.

[Disco]

It was the travel bans and quarantine periods that really fucked them too, the cards became very samey and like you say, Evil and the torture lads or whatever they called them were a real turn off.

[phonics]

I've read through Ben's takedown of the card and while I disagree with alot of it, AEWs ability to kill any heat someone gets would make Vince and his 'No-ones bigger than the brand, pal' mindset jealous with rage at their ability to do so.

On an unrelated note, a friend of mine who is the biggest AEW mark around is genuinely angry at the Mox promo from last night where once again he blades and blades HARD for no reason.

[Ben]

That Cody and Roman segment last night was absolutely phenomenal. Great babyface fire at the end from Cody but Roman was the star. He is just so good at this now.

[Ian]

Fully agree, Ben. Another good Bloodline show in general to be honest. I assume it's still gonna be a Sami/KO vs. Usos tag but if that's with Jey turning heel they're doing a really good job to me of making it seem like that isn't the way they'll go as at face value this should be Jey returning on Smackdown next week to defy Roman in some way.

The Roman / Jimmy backstage bit was really good too.

[Gray Fox]

The way I see it you can either have Jey return to spare his twin the beating, with him likely walking into one himself for his absence. You then give Jimmy the same choice that Sami had with the chair. Or something along that lines, if you're taking the bloodline away before Wrestlemania.

Or you double down on heel Jey and he slots back in having seen Sami boot his brother in the face twice.

I really hope they dont take the boring way out with this story and actually have Roman go full paranoia and eventually push Solo away too. I will say they've also protected Solo very well through this. He looks like he could be the next big star in the family.

[Ben]

They hold the titles and it's WrestleMania so I'll be incredibly surprised if it doesn't pivot back to Uso and Uso by April. No way do they do a fucky title change or just not have them on the show at all. If it was a different PPV then I'd believe they could go in the babyface Jey direction, but not here. Jey turning on Sami creates the heat that match will need.

[Ian]

I would say when the Bloodline properly and finally fractures Solo should just walk away in Reigns' hour of need. He was sent by 'the elders' to be Roman's enforcer. When he proves himself incapable of leading the family they tell Solo to stop protecting him and you can do as you like with him from there.

[Ben]

Jungle Boy vs. Christian has been added to the Revolution card in a “Final Burial” match. Rumours that Christian’s contract is up so this is writing him off.

[Baz]

As much as I don’t rate him, I’d definitely pop for a CM Punk return.

[Ben]

Hopefully he says he’s really sorry to the Elite so they can carry him to a 5 star match.

[Shindig]

There's more chance they'll drop him on his head on the first night back.

[Ben]

Punk won't be going up for their Meltzer Driver, that's for sure.

[Baz]

Anyone staying up for it? :baz:

[Baz]

Mark Briscoe is good fun. Why’s it him with the Lucha Bros and not Death Triangle though.

[Disco]

It's a wonder there's any blood left in Jon Moxley.

[Ian]

The reviewer I tend to read on 411 when I just want results hated that Moxley / Hangman match. :D

Why does Mox just bleed all the fucking time now?

[Ben]

Part of me thinks it must be a coping mechanism to stop him relapsing on alcohol.

[Waffdon]

MJF just needs to sign with WWE already

[Ben]

I'm going to need a while to get through this. Match times alone add up to over three hours, not including entrances, promos, angles, hype etc.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1632594310465040385

Fuck them kids.

[Ben]

Top work from MJF, I hope he didn't apologise. Keeping kayfabe and all that.

[Ian]

It looks good for heat but I don't really like when people go out of their way to target kids for that stuff.

[Baz]

Great PPV.

Fantastic iron man match.

And yay, FTR.

[phonics]

Seems via clips of RAW I’ve seen they’ve abandoned 6 months of storytelling and just done a reset with zero depth. Vince is back baybay.

[Gray Fox]

I said I hoped they wouldn't take the boring way out but they've done it.

I see we're also back to the ONE LUCKY PUNCH thing with Logan Paul.

[Waffdon]

Thought Logan Paul was quite good, that punch needs in the bin though.

I reckon Reigns beats Rhodes

[Ben]

His Buckshot Lariat is better than Hangman's.

[Ian]

I reckon Reigns beats Rhodes

I think Cody wins but it's by no means a dead cert. I'd say there's still a 20% chance in my mind he retains.

If Jey and Jimmy are now straight up heels until Mania the Bloodline story is definitely rumbling on until later in the year.

[Browning]

If Reigns wins, who beats him? GUNTHER is surely the only candidate left.

[Ian]

Vince comes back, has Goldberg beat him in Saudi.

[Waffdon]

If Reigns wins, who beats him? GUNTHER is surely the only candidate left.

The Celtic Warrior will hit 2010 form again

[Ben]

Dynamite was tragic last night. Fresh off a hot PPV, they decided to give most of the victors from there the night off just to make sure they don't capitalise on any momentum, apart from Orange Fucking Cassidy who must have some kind of evidence on Tony Khan because he's fucking everywhere but the gimmick is death now. Moxley and Hangman just decided to laugh off their entire feud, rendering them trying to kill each other through blood loss three days ago completely irrelevant. Also, they seem intent on killing off Wardlow for good. This whole show belonged on Rampage.

[Ian]

I've never really understood why anybody likes Orange Cassidy's gimmick.

[Gray Fox]

I can bet with reasonable confidence that Baz does.

[wullie]

I like when he puts his hands in his pockets and does the little kicks, it's second only to that deviant who'd throw people around using his penis.

[Baz]

I have an Orange Cassidy T-shirt. He was great, at first. His mimosa match with Jericho was good fun, for example. Danhausen is far worse.

There are some big takeaways from recent AEW though:
- FTR look like they’re about to get a good run
- Jericho, Sammy Guevara and Daniel Garcia entering the Trios division should be good
- No more Borin Danielson

Will be interesting to see what they do with MJF.

The tag belts and whichever belt Hobbs won on Dynamite are so irrelevant. FTR should fix one of those problems, at least.

Both women’s belts probably are too. Are we ever gonna get Britt Baker vs Jade Cargill?

Also where did Adam Cole go after his comeback promo?

[Ian]

I did enjoy AEW doing a thing about international womens day on their social media. If only there was some way you could show this in your product, lads? :sherlock:

[Baz]

By training the women to not botch every match?

Athena (Ember Moon?) is definitely gonna kill someone.

[Ben]

Hobbs is the 17th TNT champion. :cab:

[Ian]

Strong WWE midcard title energy, that.

Other than Gunther who's gonna break the Honky Tonk Man's IC title record. :drool:

[Ben]

FTR look like they’re about to get a good run
Don't hold your breath. They were so over last summer but they didn't pull the trigger then either. A cynic (me) would say that a couple of EVPs got in Tony's ear over that one.


Are we ever gonna get Britt Baker vs Jade Cargill?
I think that's still a little while away. They're clearly going to make a big thing of the undefeated streak with Jade and only have her lose when she's at the top, but she's not ready yet. She looks amazing but is green as fuck still so if that match happened now, Britt would have to win because it's too soon for Jade. I like the slow build with her but they need to keep her off Dynamite and PPVs unless she's in there with a pro (that match with Nyla at Full Gear was embarrassing). Just give her a Rampage and dark match every week instead for now (this is where the lack of house shows is crippling for green workers). Jamie Hayter should be the star of that division anyway.


Also where did Adam Cole go after his comeback promo?
They clearly brought him back for a pop, which in hindsight was pretty ridiculous considering he's not imminently ready.

[Ian]

Just rewatched Kofi / Bryan (shut it, Baz) Mania match. So good. Really holds up. The tension of a crowd who don't believe Vince will actually do the right thing.

[Baz]

I’ve no doubt he was good in the past.

[7om]

I’m still not 100% sold on Cody facing Reigns at Mania. I actually like the way Cody has been presented since he returned from injury but I can’t help but feel this is the wrong timing. The Sami involvement in this storyline has been so special, I just think he deserved that main event match with Reigns. Imagine the pop if he went over Reigns for the titles.

I guess Cody will also get a great reaction if he wins, but will it be as satisfying as Sami? I’m conflicted.

[Ben]

On the other hand, I am fully on board with it. The issue, for me, with Sami is that if he is champion, he will have to feud with people other than the Bloodline and that immediately makes the audience care about him less. Cody is over regardless. It's unfortunate for Sami but I feel like he's on the next rung down on the ladder and he's just having a hot period.

Although I'm not going to argue with those that think he deserves a shot with it. I am a big fan.

[Disco]

Cody Rhodes is a bigger Superstar so of course it will be him.

[Ben]

I'm slowly getting back into New Japan at the moment. Goto's tag with YOSHI-HASHI vs. Tanahashi and Okada last week was absolutely tremendous and he also just had a very good match in the New Japan Cup vs. Kyle Fletcher (who I've never seen in singles before).

[Baz]

1634944273861992448

[Ian]

I’m still not 100% sold on Cody facing Reigns at Mania. I actually like the way Cody has been presented since he returned from injury but I can’t help but feel this is the wrong timing. The Sami involvement in this storyline has been so special, I just think he deserved that main event match with Reigns. Imagine the pop if he went over Reigns for the titles.

I guess Cody will also get a great reaction if he wins, but will it be as satisfying as Sami? I’m conflicted.

I'd have loved it if Sami had gone on to beat Reigns (still hoping they might do something like the idea I posted a couple of weeks ago but I doubt it) but I think they might keep the crowd invested enough because the Sami / Jey stuff is still tied to the main Bloodline story and Cody / Reigns so he doesn't feel like a castoff.

Cody / Reigns should be good and fans still still to be right into Cody so I reckon it'll work. Fingers crossed.

[7om]

On the other hand, I am fully on board with it. The issue, for me, with Sami is that if he is champion, he will have to feud with people other than the Bloodline and that immediately makes the audience care about him less. Cody is over regardless. It's unfortunate for Sami but I feel like he's on the next rung down on the ladder and he's just having a hot period.

Although I'm not going to argue with those that think he deserves a shot with it. I am a big fan.


I'd have loved it if Sami had gone on to beat Reigns (still hoping they might do something like the idea I posted a couple of weeks ago but I doubt it) but I think they might keep the crowd invested enough because the Sami / Jey stuff is still tied to the main Bloodline story and Cody / Reigns so he doesn't feel like a castoff.

Cody / Reigns should be good and fans still still to be right into Cody so I reckon it'll work. Fingers crossed.

Both vary fair viewpoints.

I actually don't mind Zayn continuing the storyline with the Usos rather than Roman. I'd love to see Zayn & Owens vs Usos be the main event for night one. Although, how palatable it is for a tag match to main event the biggest PPV of the year, I don't know. I just want Sami to stay in the spotlight, basically.

[Ian]

Yeah I'd really want Ripley or Belair getting a main event but do you just go with the two biggest stories? I can see the argument both ways.

Ripley / Charlotte obviously isn't the big, long-term story Zayn / Bloodline is but on the flipside she's so fucking good and her Judgement Day stuff has been absolutely spot on.

[Gray Fox]

Ripley v Charlotte has been given night 1 main event, no? The obvious problem with Ripley is there are about 2 people in the company who can hold a candle to her. The only thing that might hold her back that isn't Vince is the dodgy Aussie accent.

As for the Cody stuff, they had almost daily stuff on their YouTube channel of him while he was out and he's been billed like nothing but a top star so far. He has a bit more of "The Look" about him as well as opposed to Sami. Obvious family ties throughout the industry too.
I don't think I've ever been quite wowed by his in-ring stuff in the way Sami can put on a show(I'll not forget the NXT with Nakamura in a hurry). But WWE is more about storytelling as actual action tends to take a back seat.

I do think Sami should be his first post-bloodline opponent, should he win. Cody goes over and Sami completes his cheerleader run and goes back to the midcard.

I have felt like the recent Cody run ins to save have felt a little forced. Other than being a face, why does he care etc. But it's serviceable to the eventual outcome I guess.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

No matches, other than Seth v Logan Paul (night 1), have been given a day yet.

[Ben]

The rumour is Charlotte vs. Rhea main events Night 1 but it’s still just rumour.

On that topic, babyface Charlotte is fucking dreadful.

[Ben]

Another juicy rumour from some Observer geezer is that Wyatt was pulled from the MSG house show last night (true) and is now off WrestleMania and maybe beyond that due to creative issues.

Thank fuck they did it now. He almost had to wrestle a match.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

:drool:

[Gray Fox]

I guess we'll find out tonight if Bobby suddenly gets into it with someone else.

Wyatts gimmicks are alright and all, right up until he runs into the guy that management dont want to lose. Then anything else that happens just doesnt make sense with what has gone on previously and it all falls apart.
THE FIEND for example was great for a very short while, but then he's put into the title picture for no reason(what use has the fiend for the championship?). Then he gets into the HIAC match with Seth and the rest is history.

[Shindig]

I feel like that's the only way you can use Bray. He vanishes for a bit, does some spooky bollocks the crowd gets weirdly into and then vanishes again. No ringwork unless it's an edited gimmick match. Or, I dunno, get him on the booking committee and then everyone can speak bollocks.

[Ben]

They wanted Brock to work with him but thankfully Brock is switched on when it comes to ensuring he doesn’t lose all credibility in a feud. Although fuck knows how he’s going to get a match out of Almost.

Bobby must be delighted.

[7om]

I can see Brock not wanting to entertain Bray’s bullshit, but why didn’t he put the kabosh on Omos? Surely he deserves more than having to fuck about with a midcarder like that.

[Ian]

I can see Brock not wanting to entertain Bray’s bullshit, but why didn’t he put the kabosh on Omos? Surely he deserves more than having to fuck about with a midcarder like that.

Because he'll only have to work about 4 minutes for a massive payday and gets to have everybody wank themselves to death pretending we've never seen an F5 to a big bloke before.

Ability wise he obviously deserves more, but he also clearly gives not even one shit so you reap what you sow I guess.

[7om]

To be fair, I probably will have a wank after he F5s Omos.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

When he takes the lanky fuck to Suplex City :drool:

[7om]

Just watching Raw for this week. Can someone explain to me what Seth Rollins’ character is? The weird dancing, the constant laughing and weird promos. He actually looks like he’s playing a mentally ill character. He looks like an absolute shadow of the performer he was when he split from the Shield all them years ago.

[wullie]

I've not seen the film but apparently he's just the Joaquin Phoenix joker but dressed like more of a twat.

[7om]

So he is playing a mentally ill character then? Genuine question because I can’t work it out. It’s crap, whatever it is.

[Gray Fox]

He doesnt really have a character. I fully believe this is just him.

Seems like this is what years of believing in your own hype turns you into.

[Ben]

It’s absolute shit. He needs to go away for a while after putting Paul over.

[Ian]

Probably one of the examples of a guy who needs more of an editor in terms of his promos. But then that's always been the case. First heel run and the 2018 anti-Brock baby-face run were alright but it's never been his strength and he really currently needs somebody to get him to file some of the weirder edges off his current thing.

[Ben]

What the fuck does Orange Cassidy have on Tony Khan? Another week, another Dynamite match, another win. He's only lost one singles match and has won 15 straight. The gimmick has run its course. Imagine if a fucking decent worker with a lot more upside like Ricky Starks got a push like this?

[7om]

I don't watch it, but I've heard a fair amount of hate for AEW over the last 6 months or so. Is it not good tv?

[phonics]

What the fuck does Orange Cassidy have on Tony Khan? Another week, another Dynamite match, another win. He's only lost one singles match and has won 15 straight. The gimmick has run its course. Imagine if a fucking decent worker with a lot more upside like Ricky Starks got a push like this?

You may not like it but his segments are a draw apparently.

[Ben]

You may not like it but his segments are a draw apparently.

He drew once, according to Wrestlenomics. Ratings are in the toilet.

[Ian]

I don't watch it, but I've heard a fair amount of hate for AEW over the last 6 months or so. Is it not good tv?

Time for a Ben wrasslin' essay. :D

[Ian]

Sports Illustrated is reporting that WWE believed GUNTHER needed a bit more seasoning before he'd be ready to work with someone the level of Brock Lesnar on a major show like WrestleMania 39.

So Bork has Omos instead. :lol: :face:

[Ben]

Time for a Ben wrasslin' essay. :D

I’m on it.

[7om]

:drool:

[Baz]

It's mostly because Borin' Danielson has featured so heavily recently, in a load of pointless matches, leading to a predicable [yet excellent] iron man match with MJF.

Also the tag division is a complete joke now all the good tag teams have moved to the trios division.

[Ben]

If you're someone who only watches WWE, then you might enjoy the chaos of AEW. Make no bones about it, apart from 10 minutes here and there, WWE television is boring as fuck. AEW doesn't have that issue but that creates its own problems because the booker/owner wants to do everything himself according to his own wet dream of wrestling but he's hardly Vince McMahon; he's got no prior experience of the wrestling business and according to sources has a massive cocaine problem which has a tendency to distort one's sense of reality.

Lots of AEW fans don't want to admit it but up until the All Out fiasco which got him shitcanned, CM Punk was the most intriguing segment and by far the biggest draw in AEW. Him going away started the downward spiral and not just because they can't rely on him to pop ratings every week. It opened the floodgates for those on the other side of the Punk/Elite incident to feel themselves fully vindicated and show their most egregious side, which unfortunately for AEW, was live on (inter)national television. Rumours have it that Tony Khan refuses to enlist help in his booking so most of the bullshit you see is his doing, but he allows some of the bigger stars to book their own storylines. Punk was one, but also Jericho and the Elite. Jericho is just ridiculous these days and everyone he gets into feuds with comes out worse than they went in and a cynic (ie. anyone with two eyes and a brain cell) will argue that this is on purpose. The Elite are an acquired taste let's say that and at the time I was furious they bullied Tony into making these trios titles (more on titles later) because it seemed rather convenient that they wanted to do this when a rubber match between the Bucks and FTR would have made perfect sense but that would have required the Bucks to put them over. Now that feeling has subsided I'm not too unhappy about it because personally I can't stand their style of "wrestling" and it seems they are steadily pulling their other indie mates into the division so I can just skip that segment now and not have to suffer.

Now onto Tony's booking. He did an interview with Ariel Helwani a while back which was notorious for his consistent non-answers regarding the All Out scrap and MJF's contract situation. But amongst that he gushed about how for the past 20 years he's played EWR and TEW (computer wrestling booking games, quite fun actually) and therein lies the problem. He's booking a multi-million dollar promotion with international television deals like it's a fucking computer game. Less and less angles are making sense these days and it's obviously due to a lack of filter when he's dreaming this up. He's got an uncanny knack of being able to completely torpedo a wrestler's momentum when they are on the cusp of getting over huge (FTR, Hobbs, Wardlow, Starks, Hayter, The Acclaimed all within the last year). Either they disappear without reason for a bit (FTR, Hobbs), put in a feud with Jericho (Starks) or inexplicably have their titles taken away (Wardlow, The Acclaimed). In most of these cases, we're now actually pivoting back to them which shows Tony has realised he fucked up but there's no guarantee some of them will get back over.

None of the booking is sensical in that one should save a gimmick match for a blowoff to a feud; everything basically descends into a no-DQ match even if it's a throwaway television match or worse is even booked as such. This in turn makes his referees look like completely idiots because they are required to ignore obvious infractions that under any normal circumstances would amount to a DQ, or even worse have to hold a fucking ladder so Hobbs doesn't fall and break his neck in the ladder match trying to reach the brass ring on his tippie toes (oh fuck there's another small time thing they do) because the idiot who produced the match put a 10ft ladder in the ring instead of 15ft one. AEW is littered with idiotic gimmick matches for little reason other than to give the crowd a chance to chant "THIS IS AWESOME!" and other cringey shit. Tony books specifically for his internet fans who, without trying to pigeon hole them, are just fucking clowns who love indie wrestling; they want to see everyone go out and put their spines at risk every match which ends up with half the roster injured and, worse, nowhere for big matches to go because some dipshit has already done seventeen 540 sentons on the undercard. Baz gives Danielson a hard time but the fact the Iron Man match was so well received (despite the stipulation being utterly unnecessary but we'll ignore that) is a testament to him and MJF because all the goofs in the undercard tried their very best to upstage them. The main event should be a main event, not just the tenth match in a ten match card.

So with Tony already stretched in his capabilities, he acquired ROH and tried to book that fucker too. And then he incorporated it into AEW TV so a promotion with 20 titles becomes a promotion with 30 titles. How can you care about a title when every fucking match is a title match? Look at this past week's Dynamite: just a random episode, not a lead-in or lead-out to a PPV or a "special" episode, yet three of the four matches on the show were title matches. Utterly mental. Even if you have WWF's roster of 2000, you can't book like that. It's crash TV and it's killing their growth and appeal to anyone who's not in that core niche of fans who just love this shit. Those fans basically amount to a cult (like Tesla drivers and air fryer aficionados) who won't have a bad word to say about it but to a casual fan or someone like me who likes their wrestling to make sense rather than shock value entertainment, it's been absolute dross since last summer (bar a brief period in January where it looked like they were getting it together). They consistently lose 20% of their audience throughout the show every week.

This reads back like an obituary but we are talking about the negatives. There are many positives too but wrestling starts with the booking and that's by far the biggest problem in AEW. Yes, I don't like some (a lot) of the roster because they know how to do a corkscrew but not how to work or sell but that's by the bye in comparison (if I'm feeling especially twattish one day I'll do a breakdown of the roster). There's some great talents there, interestingly most of them being on that list further up about those who have had their momentum trashed and despite how I make it sound, some of it is watchable and entertaining. But unless you're some super fan, you'll quickly learn how to skip the stuff that isn't for you. If you just like spot fests with no rhyme or reason and you're able to filter out all the nonsensical stuff, you'll probably enjoy the majority of it, as it's just a promotion full of indie dream matches every week. If you're more like me who wants an actual reason to why things happen, then the fast-forward button on your TV remote will get a regular workout.

So yeah, your mileage might vary compared to mine but the stuff I have listed is why I think AEW has been so bad lately. If it was booked remotely logically then I could begin to stomach some of the more talented lunatic wrestlers he has signed up.

[Ian]

The referees thing is something I've mentioned on here before when I dip into AEW. They're just staring at really basic DQ moves and doing nothing about it. The biting is the most egregious one. Last time I watched a full AEW show I'm sure it had three matches at least that I counted where in the middle of the action the heel just openly bit their opponent and the ref did nothing but there's loads of examples of that sort of thing when you watch it.

Serious talent on that roster but too many unchecked egos and sometimes that leads to it all being a bit late era WCW.

[wullie]

I hate the name 'trios' for a division. Either call it a six-man tag or have a duos division as well.

[Ben]

Here’s another of their problems:

1636519522600460294

Twat is forbidden but Moxley yelling “fuck you” whilst flipping the bird and bleeding everywhere several times a broadcast is just fine for Tony.

[wullie]

They should have some more battle royals to see who qualifies for another tournament to win a golden brass diamond swear box which allows them to tell Tony Schiavone to cut the shit once a week.

[Shindig]

Profanity in the Bank
Tables, Ladders and Slurs
Heck in a Sec

[Ian]

That's just because Americans are still a bit puritan around words for women's genitals. Presumably 'asshole' or 'dickhead' would be fine? I've not clicked through.

[Shindig]

But they love pussy.

[wullie]

When Nigel McGuinness was in TNA I'm sure he had free reign to call people wankers because Americans had no idea what he was on about.

[Ben]

Nige :cool:

Or I should say, Desmond Wolfe.

[Ian]

When Nigel McGuinness was in TNA I'm sure he had free reign to call people wankers because Americans had no idea what he was on about.

Total aside but this is how plonker got into Only Fools and Horses despite meaning penis, because the BBC poshos didn't know what it meant.(According to David Jason.)

[7om]

Great write up, Ben. Thanks for that.

[Baz]

Just watched Dynamite and I guess Wardlow is completely dead and buried, considering he didn’t get a mention when MJF mentioned Christian, Jericho and Sting looking after Jungle Boy, Sammy Guevara and Darby Allin. Great to have them all in contention for a title match though. Should be a great run up to Double Or Nothing. Hopefully a 4-way ladder match so we can see seventeen 540 sentons.

[Ben]

I wouldn’t mind seeing Darby Allin vs. MJF but the other two belong nowhere near the World title. Even still, I think that should be a title match on a special Dynamite. That four-way won’t sell the PPV to casuals.

[Ian]

Smackdown was pretty decent last night and with all the lacklustre Mania build we normally get these days it was refreshing to have one that was so laser-focused on building the show.

Crowd were awful though, doing a bit of a pop when a thing initially happened then immediately going dead quiet. At least they popped properly for the end.

[Ian]

Cameron Grimes is looking unrecognisable.

https://cdn4.whatculture.com/images/2023/03/697be52dabbde5b3-600x338.jpg

[Shindig]

Looks like something you'd get back from an AI request to draw Jinder Khali.

[Ben]

Scott Hall vibes.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Butch is dead, long live Pete Dunne :drool:

Give him a title shot against WALTER now please.

[Disco]

The return of Yellow Peter :cool:

[Ben]

Anyone watching the New Japan Cup? I’m now caught up and Mark Davis (Aussie Open) and David Finlay have been most impressive.

Ospreay beat Davis but got a shoulder injury so Davis came back in. Hopefully it’s not too serious because if it’s something like a rotator cuff then it torpedos the obvious plan for him to win the G1 and then Okada for the title.

[7om]

I’ll be honest, I almost (*almost*) choked up when Owens returned and hugged Sami at the end of Smackdown. It’s been so well done since War Games.

[igor_balis]

Cameron Grimes is looking unrecognisable.

https://cdn4.whatculture.com/images/2023/03/697be52dabbde5b3-600x338.jpg

he looks like about 10 otger wrestlers. I'm mostly getting Stevie Richards vibes, but all the other suggestions in this thread work

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1637949529830965250

Hopefully the cokehead signs him up.

[Shindig]

Full cop entrance or don't even bother.

[wullie]

Turns out there is an Orange Cassidy match I'd like to watch

[Ben]

Raw seemed to be a bit of a dud as they're pretty much set on the WrestleMania card already and God forbid they try to generate some heat for any match outside the Bloodline story, but:

Dominik Mysterio def. Johnny Gargano :drool:

[Ian]

Turns out there is an Orange Cassidy match I'd like to watch

:D

[Ben]

Vince McMahon couldn't get Goldberg to do a job but Tony would get him to lay down for Orange Cassidy.

[Ben]

Cody and Roman promo segment great yet again. It's amazing that Cody has somewhat randomly become the most over babyface in a decade after that run in AEW.

[wullie]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z19Cad44Jdo

This is all great stuff, but I forgot how weird the THUNDERDOME was

[Gray Fox]

Cody and Roman promo segment great yet again. It's amazing that Cody has somewhat randomly become the most over babyface in a decade after that run in AEW.

I also like how he got out of AEW at the perfect time. They've been nothing but downhill since he left and he's gone nowhere but up.

I think him stipulating himself out of the title picture in AEW is also helping here. Cody hasn't had a title worth shouting about in quite some time.

[Ian]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z19Cad44Jdo

This is all great stuff, but I forgot how weird the THUNDERDOME was

I can't remember what I rewatched recently that was Thunderdome era but you forget just how odd it was. Wrestling to silence / piped in noise depending on when it was to an audience of weirdly oppressive iPads.

[Ben]

That era destroyed wrestling for me. I couldn't cope with either WWE or AEW, and also NJPW (but that was also booking related). Only ROH seemed to nail the no-crowd thing. Honestly, the block of tapings they did to no fans in the back half of 2020 was great TV.

[Shindig]

They could've went Lucha Underground and just taped something more cinematic. But then I guess they wouldn't have been able to sell slots on a Zoom call like tickets.

[Ben]

Baz you watched Dynamite? Main event is right up your street.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I saw this and I don't think I'll be able to sleep again so now you guys have to see it too:

1638957041665601538

:sick:

[Baz]

Baz you watched Dynamite? Main event is right up your street.

No I’m in Lanzarote. Will avoid spoilers and watch it on Tuesday.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1639011634621341697

Could have broken his freaking neck.

[Ben]

This is why I shit on this type of wrestling. Yeah the crowd popped and Meltzer will give it 5 stars but who the fuck will care about this in a week's time? Save it for the big annual show, not some episode of TV. If you paralyse yourself in this scenario then you're a dumb fuck and I've got no sympathy.

[7om]

Absolutely mindless. Just so idiots can chant “this is awesome” for 30 seconds. Awful.

[Baz]

FIGHT FOREVER! etc

(I love that’s the name of the game by the way)

[Ian]

Maybe like how Smackdown did a load of wrestlers catchphrases AEW will do all the self-indulgent crowd chants.

I look forward to AEW: We Deserve It.

[Disco]

Fight forever might be the worst, dumbest thing imaginable to shout at a wrestling match.

[Baz]

Fight forever might be the worst, dumbest thing imaginable to shout at a wrestling match.

Why? It’s essentially ‘we are enjoying this and hope it continues for much longer.’

[phonics]

'Waaaaaaaah the wrestling moves were too cool, I should see it less. I want 6 tests of strengths a match, that's real wrestling!'

Absolutely bizarre criticism. He probably does it like 3 times a week in AAA.

Big E almost died taking a basic Belly to Back Suplex. Rey Mysterio literally killed a guy on a house show from a drop kick. Should those moves be saved for PPV too?

[Baz]

+1

aka ‘This.’

[Disco]

Why? It’s essentially ‘we are enjoying this and hope it continues for much longer.’

The entire conceit of wrestling is that you should want one person to win, the whole presentation is geared towards that. This is awesome, you deserve it and the rest are all close behind.

On the big moves on tv thing, yes to some extent you should save the more impressive things for the bigger shows but when there's only 4 (I think) a year they would end up being even longer than they already are. For AEW their tv is the bread and butter and it makes more sense for them to put some of that in the regular show. Plus this is lucha guy getting one of his first big matches in front of a bigger audience, it's more understandable that he would want to impress.

[phonics]

Also the entire international audience is paying them 8.99 a month to watch said 'TV' shows.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Rumours are that Pete Dunne will face WALTER on Smackdown tonight :drool:

[Ben]

'Waaaaaaaah the wrestling moves were too cool, I should see it less. I want 6 tests of strengths a match, that's real wrestling!'

Absolutely bizarre criticism. He probably does it like 3 times a week in AAA.

Big E almost died taking a basic Belly to Back Suplex. Rey Mysterio literally killed a guy on a house show from a drop kick. Should those moves be saved for PPV too?

You’re missing the point (or at least my point). Wrestling has always been built on storylines and working towards the crescendo (ie. the blowoff). But now after no angle and one 16 minute match, Omega and Vikingo can’t wrestle each other again. They went so balls to the wall that we’ve conceivably seen all they have. Agreed, the match was a great spectacle but it’s done nothing to bring you back next week because a) they’ve built no heat and b) Vikingo is so talented (I mentioned a while ago that he’s probably the best out of the flippy shit gang) that when they inevitably try to do a repeat with someone else it’ll just look like a bad copy. AEW is too often just a random card of matches that will produce moments of great athleticism but has no heat going in and no heat coming out and while the core audience love that, it just doesn’t relate to mainstream viewers. It’s no surprise TV and PPV ratings were highest when Punk was on screen, because he did storylines.

[7om]

You’re missing the point

He does that a lot.

[phonics]

Punk was boring and sucked ass. People only like Punk because he was a barely shining light in the worst period of professional wrestling in 30 years and pointed out how shit it was.

‘Omg did you see him recreate the first 5 minutes of worlds most boring man Brett Harts matches. Now that’s wrestling.’

What is Vikingo v Omega supposed to build to? He's not an AEW wrestler. He's a AAA wrestler. He can't speak English. There's not going to be another PPV for like 4 months. It was something to entertain people who pay money to attend an event, subscribe on FITE and get people to watch TNT.

It's not the fucking 1970s anymore and Jim Cornette and his shitty Smoky Mountain Wrestling ideas of what 'the business' is is horffically outdated as proved by the fact it's not in business anymore.

The idea that you, Ben, a man who spends his time watching NJPW and knows what a Super G1 tournament is has a better idea of what mainstream viewers like more than someone like me or Baz is just condescending.

[7om]

Calls someone condescending while being condescending.

[Gray Fox]

Is this the Phonics Pipebomb?

[Ian]

Can't believe Ben thinks it's acceptable to just go about having his own opinions on an important subject like pro wrestling.

[Disco]

Just let me push my glasses up my nose while I point out it's the G1 Climax not the Super G1.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Phonics' post is now completely useless after that glaring error.

[phonics]

Can't believe Ben thinks it's acceptable to just go about having his own opinions on an important subject like pro wrestling.

Am fine with Ben having his own opinions hence why I'm explaining that other opininons also exist despite claims of understanding mainstream viewers.

[Ben]

I’m not claiming I understand it. I just looked up the American TV ratings and PPV buys.

[Ian]

Am fine with Ben having his own opinions hence why I'm explaining that other opininons also exist despite claims of understanding mainstream viewers.

Yes but as with every conversation you engage in on here these days you're being about twenty times as pointlessly and tediously grumpy about it as you need to be.

Just chill the fuck out and have a conversation.

[Ian]

This isn't one of the other misery threads which has just descended into entrenched people bellowing at each other, we're just talking about the oily Lycra men chucking each other about.

[wullie]

CM Punk's had a nice time slagging everyone in AEW off in response to a Dave Meltzer news quote only about 2% would have read before his response.

[Ian]

On Punk though, how good he is or isn't is largely irrelevant given how much of a bellend he is has now become basically his only trait. Tony needs to get rid ASAP.

Also just started skipping through Smackdown and it's opening with Cody vs. Kaiser which according to Cole "started on Smackdown Lowdown." Firstly: I had to Google what the fuck that is. b) Spell it Lo Down you cowards.

[Baz]

I wouldn’t have minded CM Punk but his seemingly crumbly knees meant he botched every big spot.

Jeff Jarrett is in better shape.

[Ben]

Jarrett is far more enjoyable than he has any right to be.

I was a bit sad Dunne only got 9 minutes against Gunther, considering Kaiser went 16 with Cody.

[Ian]

I was a bit sad Dunne only got 9 minutes against Gunther, considering Kaiser went 16 with Cody.

I agree though I get why it got the time it got in the context of the show. Nice reminder of what the two of them can do though and I hope they get a proper go again at some point.

I can't figure out if I'm meant to think Sheamus or McIntyre are right in there sub-feud at the moment. Or are we supposed to be wishing they'd just make up?

Also have to say that was a good pop they got for Rey finally getting sick of Dom's shit and giving him a slap. I really wasn't feeling this feud early doors but they've done a good job of it. Not convinced Rey can drag a properly good match out of him but we'll see.

[Ben]

It’ll be the good ol’ Larry Zbyszko stalling like fuck from Dominik. Probably the best way to go.

[Ian]

Do we reckon if Dom loses Judgement Day bin him or will they save that for later?

[wullie]

There's something very wrong if he doesn't win in the shittiest way possible and then spend months insufferably living off it.

[Ben]

Do we reckon if Dom loses Judgement Day bin him or will they save that for later?

Dom needs to win if they plan on using him long term. It’ll probably end up with Rhea dumping him eventually because the fans are turning her.

[Ian]

Realised I hadn't watched the Cody/Reigns stuff from Raw so gave that a watch there. Really good again.

I like how they're weaving this all together. Zayn is feuding the Usos but that's still being shown as part of Reigns' story, they're really teasing more Reigns / Jey stuff to come (which is what would bring the story full circle) and even just showing Solo having a bit more of a mind of his own for basically the first time too.

[Ben]

Cody vs. Solo on Raw should be entertaining even with the inevitable fuck finish. Solo DQing himself to get in one last beat down on Cody before Sunday.

[Ian]

Oh yeah that's gonna be more angle than match but should still be good.

[Ben]

PWInsider are reporting Gangrel is being brought in for WrestleMania. Christian was put away in a casket on AEW and that’s Wrestling 101 in how to write someone off.

Brood entrance at WrestleMania :drool:

[Ben]

They actually went with a clean Cody win over Solo. I'm somewhat shocked because it seemed like they were making a point to protect Solo for a future match with Roman and a DQ or count out wouldn't have hurt Cody in any way whatsoever.

[Gray Fox]

I see Solo is developing that Kane knee bump very well. It always looks so awkward.

They had Heyman play his role very well here too. I just hope there's nothing screwy with him switching sides in the big one.

[Baz]

Baz you watched Dynamite? Main event is right up your street.

Yep, incredible.

[Ben]

I just watched the whole Cody-Solo segment.

Cody is so ridiculously over. Not just the mega pop for his entrance but also the sheer amount of (unique) signs in the crowd which is a great indicator of someone who has made that connection. The fans are also invested in his matches which in WWE is quite something as the matches are usually when everyone sits on their hands or goes for a piss.

Who was the last wrestler to be like this, Daniel Bryan?

[Waffdon]

L a knight

yeah

[Waffdon]

Fuckin caps

[Ben]

LA Knight is awesome.

Yeah!

[wullie]

I can't help but wonder what would have become of Max Dupri. He could have been oiling up beefcakes left and right.

[Ben]

Call me out of touch but that was up there with Red Rooster and TL Hopper as one of the worst gimmicks I've ever seen. Maybe a bit of recency bias too but MMM was/is awful.

Although I do wonder what might have come of Jim Herd's idea of the hunchbacked tag team (ie. they physically can't be pinned) had it got through the sanity censors.

[wullie]

'Shorty G' would be very high up that list for me as well, the weird shooooosh thing he's doing now is childish rubbish but still a million miles better than being an inspirational midget in a day-glo basketball kit.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

MMM has been a bit of a guilty pleasure for me.

Especially since they brought in "Otise".

[Waffdon]

Yeah, they’re great. Should be pushed to the moon.

[Ian]

I just watched the whole Cody-Solo segment.

Cody is so ridiculously over. Not just the mega pop for his entrance but also the sheer amount of (unique) signs in the crowd which is a great indicator of someone who has made that connection. The fans are also invested in his matches which in WWE is quite something as the matches are usually when everyone sits on their hands or goes for a piss.

Who was the last wrestler to be like this, Daniel Bryan?

Rollins was incredibly over during his 2018 babyface run before they had him feud Jezza for five months and killed the mood dead.

Not Bryan levels certainly but I'd say near enough on a par with what Cody's getting currently? That might be my memory failing me but he was very, very over.

Not watched any of last night yet, but where WWE normally waste unbeaten runs on some absolute bullshit I think this is probably a pretty good use of Solo's. Part of a big storyline going into the biggest show of the year. I was surprised it wasn't a DQ too though.

[Ben]

Rollins certainly has had a fall from grace. I hope Logan Paul lols his cackling cunt into some time off.

[Ben]

I was just checking the WrestleMania card so I decided to jot down my thoughts a few days out.

WWE United States Title Match
Austin Theory (c) vs. John Cena
This should be a good “pass the torch” moment to get us going. Theory certainly has great potential even though he got fully schooled on the mic by Cena a couple of weeks ago. I’m not expecting a great match but it will achieve what it needs to.

Singles Match
Rey Mysterio vs. Dominik Mysterio
I’m not going to lie, I’m actually looking forward to this. Dominik is pretty bad in the ring but between him getting booed out the building for being a twat and finally Rey kicking the shit out of him, it should be entertaining. I think we will get a good indication of both Rey and Dominik’s long-term future depending on the winner; wrestling logic would book a babyface win but this could be a big elevation for Dom if they go with him.

WWE RAW Tag Team Title / WWE SmackDown Tag Team Title Match
The Usos (Jey Uso & Jimmy Uso) (c) vs. Kevin Owens & Sami Zayn
Death, taxes, KO turns on Sami. But if anyone is going to turn here, it should be Jey, if they are really pulling the trigger on the Bloodline falling apart. It’ll be pretty shitty if this doesn’t all culminate with Sami winning at least something.

Fatal Four Way Tag Team Match
Braun Strowman & Ricochet vs. The Viking Raiders (Erik & Ivar) vs. The Street Profits (Angelo Dawkins & Montez Ford) vs. Alpha Academy (Chad Gable & Otis)
At least the annual “get everyone on the card” match isn’t a ladder match for the IC title so there’s an improvement. But still, I don’t give a fuck about this. Braun and Ricochet are actually a cute team but Smackdown and WrestleMania are two different things. Viking Raiders I used to LOVE as War Machine but they’re meaningless now. People seem to love Montez but I’m not on board yet. Chad Gable has been beaten like a drum, poor bloke. Otis is shit.

WWE Intercontinental Title Triple Threat Match
Gunther (c) vs. Sheamus vs. Drew McIntyre
I think everyone on here knows my thoughts on multi-man matches but this might actually be alright. Gunther is obviously great and they’ve managed to work in another story with Sheamus and Drew and they’re two of the better workers so there might not be so much obvious “waiting for your spot” shit. A good way to get the belt off Gunther without taking a pin as he moves on up to Cody.

Fatal Four Way Tag Team Match
Natalya & Shotzi vs. Chelsea Green & Sonya Deville vs. Liv Morgan & Raquel Rodriguez vs. Ronda Rousey & Shayna Baszler
Christ. Piss break.

Singles Match
Seth Rollins vs. Logan Paul
Normally I’d hope a cocky YouTube guy would get destroyed but Logan Paul actually understands the wrestling business and he’s brilliant. Seth’s recent promos and general character is some of the most egregious shit I’ve ever witnessed so I’m all aboard the Logan Paul train.

Six Man Tag Team Match
Becky Lynch, Lita & Trish Stratus vs. Damage CTRL (Bayley, Dakota Kai & IYO SKY)
I didn’t think I could care this little about Becky Lynch but here we are. It seems neither company can book women’s wrestling.

Singles Match
Brock Lesnar vs. Omos (w/MVP)
This will be so bad but I won’t be able to take my eyes off it. If this is more than Brock superhumanning Almost with a German, F5, 1-2-3, get out of there, then I’ll be stunned.

Hell In A Cell Match
Edge vs. Finn Balor
Balor needs this win so much otherwise he’s done as a believable threat to anyone above jobber status. He’s meant to be the leader of Judgement Day but it doesn’t come across that way. At least they’ve used the Cell match stipulation properly here. I’m not hyped but unless there’s a load of fuckery I don’t see how it can be bad.

WWE RAW Women's Title Match
Bianca Belair (c) vs. Asuka
They’ve given me no reason to care about this match but bell-to-bell it’ll be one of the better ones, surely.

WWE SmackDown Women's Title Match
Charlotte Flair (c) vs. Rhea Ripley
The big crowning moment of Rhea. She’s a true star now and this will cement it. I just feel the match will be back to front with Charlotte wanting to shine (especially if she’s dropping the belt) and Rhea being such a good bumper. Charlotte is a bad babyface. Having said that, the crowd might end up switching the babyface and heel anyway so it might all come up Milhouse.

WWE Title / WWE Universal Title Match
Roman Reigns (c) vs. Cody Rhodes
The biggest match in years. WWE haven’t built a match this well in so long and I might argue that includes Bryan vs. Authority. Cody is THE babyface, everyone is into him (apart from Tony Khan) and the Bloodline story is some of the best shit they’ve written in forever. It’s got to be a Cody win here. There’s legs on the Bloodline story yet potentially so there’s an argument for Roman retaining but that will kill Cody completely and having a superstar babyface is infinitely more desirable than a superstar heel. Sometimes the obvious thing to do is the right thing to do.

[wullie]

I didn't know about the four way tag team matches, is there any reason for them other than 'here you go'?

[Ben]

Nothing that I'm aware of but appearing on WrestleMania is a big payday so I can imagine some of the participants would be really pissed off if they didn't get on the card.

[Baz]

Which match will be first? :eyemouth:

[Ben]

Theory vs. Cena is confirmed opening Night 1.

[wullie]

I'm going Brock to open the other night, get his armdrags and cradles in early doors and then straight off home to beat the traffic.

[Gray Fox]

You'd have thought with some of the shit on there, that Bobby Lashley could have been given something as an apology.

Wasting a Ronda appearance on a non-title fatal four way tag match is also lol. I can only assume the vampire turns on her and we get some SummerSlam build.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

"Otis is shit".

I will hunt you down you mother fucking bastard.

[Ian]

I didn't know about the four way tag team matches, is there any reason for them other than 'here you go'?

"Tag Team Showcase" matches I believe, so a) to get people on the card and b) HHH's concession to the fact that he does like tag wrestling even if he's done nowt with it yet. Hoping once the belts are off the Usos we can get some proper tag division(s) going again.


Hell In A Cell Match
Edge vs. Finn Balor
Balor needs this win so much otherwise he’s done as a believable threat to anyone above jobber status. He’s meant to be the leader of Judgement Day but it doesn’t come across that way. At least they’ve used the Cell match stipulation properly here. I’m not hyped but unless there’s a load of fuckery I don’t see how it can be bad.

Just wait until the match enters its 50th minute and Edge's comeback to win (and he shouldn't win, but he is winning) hasn't even started yet.

[Ben]

Omega using his Devil's Sky theme last night. :drool:

Bryan Danielson turning heel. :drool:

Omega vs. Danielson at Double or Nothing. :drool:

Danielson fighting for the IWGP US title and going in the G1?? :drool::drool:

See, Tony, it's not that hard. Even though we had to endure Matt Hardy and Orange Cassidy wrestling, the extra devotion to angles and live promos will really pay off come Double or Nothing. Finally BCC starting to mean something.

[Waffdon]

Having seen apparently what night 1 and 2 look like, the card looks a bit meh for ‘Mania. Hopefully they forget about PG during the Cell match and the Triple Threat for the IC.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

The cell match will be one of the worst (other than the Women's let's get everyone involved tag thing) because it will be pushing on an hour just to have Edge grind out a victory.

[Ben]

Yeah I didn’t take into account the fact that it’s two nights so the Cell will get plenty of time. If it was 20 minutes get in, get out then it would be decent.

[Gray Fox]

Got to have 20 minutes alone for The Brood reunion.

[Ian]

The two nights things is largely irrelevant. Edge just gets the Triple H Epic match time nowadays.

Genuinely not sure I've really enjoyed a match of his since he came back. And part of me feels like, somewhere, he and Orton are still slowly stumbling about an empty gym.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

THE GREATEST MATCH EVER was alright.

Almost all of his matches have been way too slow and way too long.

[wullie]

Is Christian still with AEW or is there a chance we get all the Brood lads back together?

[Gray Fox]

It is hard to go anywhere but down after you've that The Greatest Wrestling Match.

That said, when he beats painted Balor inside the cage for literally no reason, I'm sure we can get Randy back so they can go at it again.

[Gray Fox]

Is Christian still with AEW or is there a chance we get all the Brood lads back together?

It's heavily speculated his contract finished up the other week and he was thrown in a casket and not seen since. So there is a chance.

It's also rumoured Smalltime Tony doesn't like putting no-compete clauses in.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Still at AEW so we'll only get 2/3 of Brood.

[Ben]

Speaking of Orton, somebody has to return to put LA Knight on his arse.

[Ian]

Oh god no, do not want that match.

[Ben]

I don’t even think it will be a match, just a promo battle and a finisher.

Criminal that LA isn’t on the card. :nono:

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Don't worry, he's on WRESTLEMANIA Smackdown in the Andre Battle Royal.

[Ian]

Knight is over enough that they could have found something to do for him across two nights. Yeah!

[7om]

Predictions time.

Night 1
1 Austin Theory (c) vs. John Cena - I’d like it if Cena stuck around for a bit but not convinced that will ever happen again. As such, he must lose. I’m not fully sold on Theory as a lot of people seem to be, so hoping for a good showing here.

2 Seth "Freakin" Rollins vs. Logan Paul - Logan is a weird one. He has no right being as good as he is in the ring but not sure he will ever commit to a more heavy schedule. Is it palatable for him to go over big names at WM? I’m not sure it is, actually, no matter how much I hate Rollins’ current character.

3 Trish Stratus, Lita, and Becky Lynch vs. Damage CTRL (Bayley, Dakota Kai, and Iyo Sky) - don’t care.

4 Braun Strowman and Ricochet vs. The Street Profits (Angelo Dawkins and Montez Ford) vs. Alpha Academy (Chad Gable and Otis) vs. The Viking Raiders (Erik and Ivar) (with Valhalla) - don’t care, but I like Strowman and Ricochet as a team. So hope to see them get a little push.

5 Charlotte Flair (c) vs. Rhea Ripley - don’t care.

6 The Usos (Jey Uso and Jimmy Uso) (c) vs. Kevin Owens and Sami Zayn - potential for fuckery here. Jey could turn, as could Owens. On balance, I don’t think anyone will and we might just get a clean win for Sami and Big Kev. That’d be nice.

7 Rey Mysterio vs. Dominik Mysterio - loved the build for this. The pop when Rey punched Dom on SmackDown last week was great. It’s been a simple but effective storyline and I’m guessing Dom has to win.


Night 2
1 Roman Reigns (c) (with Paul Heyman) vs. Cody Rhodes - has to be Cody, doesn’t it? WM main event, he’s a white hot crowd favourite and it’s rumoured that Reigns needs a break. If you don’t take the titles off Roman now I don’t know how you do it. I’ll be sad to see Roman go, though. It’s been an amazing storyline.

2 Gunther (c) vs. Sheamus vs. Drew McIntyre - can’t help but think this should have been Gunther vs Brock and I would’ve been genuinely looking forward to it. I think Sheamus wins here so he can complete his set.

3 Edge vs. "The Demon" Finn Bálor - ugh, I don’t know why but I don’t really give a shit about this. Balor is not a convincing heel for me. Can’t take him seriously. This being inside the Cell makes it more interesting. If it was a 1v1 it would’ve been a piss break.

4 Liv Morgan and Raquel Rodriguez vs. Natalya and Shotzi vs. Ronda Rousey and Shayna Baszler vs. Chelsea Green and Sonya Deville - couldn’t care any less.

5 Bianca Belair (c) vs. Asuka - don’t care.

6 Brock Lesnar vs. Omos (with MVP) - I don’t know why this match is even a thing. Omos sucks balls and Brock is too much of a box office name to be pissing about with him. Three F5s and finish it in 1 minute, please.

[phonics]

Every time you guys post the card I get a bit more sad. It was never going to match up to last years nostalgia fest but it's truly awful this year.

[Baz]

As frustrating as it sometimes feels to wait ages for the next AEW PPV, at least it’s worth the wait and a pleasure to watch. WWE PPVs, especially this Wrestlemania over two nights, seem like such a chore. I feel like nobody cares about those women’s tag matches.

[Ben]

I agree Baz. AEW, if they've got anything right, is PPVs. 4 or 5 a year is a great number.

[Gray Fox]

How dare you all keep saying PPV when they are clearly PREMIUM LIVE EVENTS.

But in all seriousness, I think there are too many 'obvious' winners this year. Then you start looking well in that case, who can put on a good show despite that?

[Ian]

I'm tentatively expecting a decent show this weekend but then I didn't care for a fair bit of last year's show. I'll fart out some more extended thoughts later when I'm not on my phone.

Also trying to decide what, if any, of the NXT card I care about.

I'll watch Breakkkker/ Hayes. Women's title and NA title are maybes.

Hurts my heart to see Bate in a match I don't want to watch.

[Dark Soldier]

How dare you all keep saying PPV when they are clearly PREMIUM LIVE EVENTS.

But in all seriousness, I think there are too many 'obvious' winners this year. Then you start looking well in that case, who can put on a good show despite that?

I was watching a YouTube video of someone playing WWE 2k23 the other day.

Now I finally know what PLE fucking means. Have they actually changed that?1

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

They changed it last year.

[Dark Soldier]

Fecking hell is nowt sacred

[wullie]

In fairness to them, unlike their standard weirdness with language this makes sense as there must only be about 10 people who don't trust the internet and still pay for specific shows now

[Ben]

It's still PPV to me damn it.

I'm more excited about this year's than last. I think that's because Triple H has cut down on the Vince bullshit. This year there's a couple of piss breaks sure but apart from Almost, there's nothing offensive. Last year we had Cody on Saturday and not a lot more, then a shit Sunday.