The Ultimate WWE Thread

[Ian]

Riddle is another one massively benefitting from it not being Vince in charge any more because he's not just the cheery high guy any more. I wonder if him and Rollins settled their ill will prior to this or if they just decided if they're feuding anyway they might as well get stuck into each other and it results in lines like that from Rollins.

Really hoping they get a good 15-20 for their match though because those two could have a corker.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

They've buried the problems.

https://talksport.com/sport/wrestling/909534/wwe-riddle-heat-seth-rollins-survivor-series/

They've also appeared on UpUpDownDown together (as part of a tournament) which I'd doubt they'd do if they still hated each other.

[Ian]

Oh, fair enough, then yeah they're just getting into it.

Should be match of the night on Saturday depending how much Walter and Sheamus go to town on each other.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Oh, fair enough, then yeah they're just getting into it.

Should be match of the night on Saturday depending how much Walter and Sheamus go to town on each other.

They've even got them feuding in the parking area with no actual WWE cameras around:

1564372964996517888

Really playing into their former problems.

Haven't watched RAW yet but maybe they even use "security cam footage" of it.

[Ian]

They're doing a better job of pretending there aren't conveniently cameras everywhere that something is about to happen and having people actually do things without a cue.

Was it also Rollins and Riddle where Raw the other week started with Smith running down the show then suddenly they cut to a cameraman pegging it to get footage of them having a ruckus in the back? Whoever it was it's nice to see them laying things out in different ways.

[Ben]

Riddle has got his first name back too.

So has Theory. But they seem to be in a stage of making him look daft to compensate for Vince's wild overpush.

[Shindig]

I'm going to assume Riddle getting out there barefoot cements it as a work.

[Gray Fox]

And the two guys in full referee outfits that just so happened to have been in this car park.

[Waffdon]

I'm going to assume Riddle getting out there barefoot cements it as a work.

Christ

[Ian]

I don't think anybody was questioning that it was a work were they?

[Shindig]

Nah. In an era where everybody films everything, WWE could probably be fine to just do more of this. Stick a plant in the crowd and you've got yourself some easy footage and you've worked the crowd.

[wullie]

Thankfully some things have yet to change like the natural TV viewing positions

https://cdn.wrestletalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/Dana-Brooke-247-Championship-e1661853278469.jpeg

[phonics]

Why's there a TV stand in the middle of what looks like a locker room?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Watching RAW now, Sami Zayn is incredible:

1564436949275795456

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

That was easily the worst RAW of the Triple H era. It wasn't bad but nothing really stood out in terms of wrestling although the KO/Jey match was decent.

[Ian]

Just checking out the Worlds Collide card there. I was going to watch Bate / Breakkkkkkkker anyway because Bate is obviously excellent but didn't know Carmelo Hayes was wrestling Ricochet. Well up for that.

[Ben]

Watched a bit of Dynamite. Moxley and especially Punk cut good promos but the obvious story from this is Punk losing and spiralling out of control, so it’ll be interesting to see how they pull that off in Chicago. Else Punk wins and they’ve hot potatoed the title and the whole angle in two weeks, whereas they could have got a few months out of this. There’s only these two guys and a couple of others who can carry a feud on the mic, they brought out fucking Ace Steel and he had more fire than most of the roster lol.

Also watched the trios match which was proper shite. Omega, Ospreay, Aussie Open are all great yet they had another ridiculous spot fest with no story and no timing. They’re trying to go full lucha libre and aren’t even good at it. Having said that, the Omega introduction was pretty fucking funny and the eventual singles match should be brilliant.

[Ian]

Apparently Boatman is coming back on Raw. I hope his gimmick is "is a train" again.

[wullie]

Did he actually have a choo choo sound effect or was that one of those ridiculous jokes that's just plausible enough to be true?

[Ian]

Did he actually have a choo choo sound effect or was that one of those ridiculous jokes that's just plausible enough to be true?


https://youtu.be/_O5wwgBNVRo

20 seconds in.

[Disco]

Such a stupid gimmick, he moves at least twice as fast as any American train does these days and it completely ruins the immersion.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Get Hornswoggle to ride him.

[Ben]

Strowman is dreadful. I thought Triple H was the saviour?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Apparently he's only coming back if the writers have something good for him.

[phonics]

Are you saying he wants to Control His Narrative?

[Ian]

Strowman is dreadful. I thought Triple H was the saviour?

He's not awful. Used right, such as with his excellent series against Roman and the feud with Bork (before he was lolled to death in the match) are good examples of how he can be good. He was really, super over going into that.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

He's not awful. Used right, such as with his excellent series against Roman and the feud with Bork (before he was lolled to death in the match) are good examples of how he can be good. He was really, super over going into that.

The Lashley/Boatman/Drew triple threat was a really fun match.

[Ian]

He's good for a hoss fight and I dare say you'd get a good match out of him with some of WWE's smaller guys now they're less likely to be seen as pitiful midgets.

[Disco]

He was pretty bad at the beginning but I seem to remember him being Competent Largeman by the end.

[Gray Fox]

Once he got himself in shape he was pretty good and you'd get a good match out of him with almost anyone.

[Ben]

AEW just debuted Big Cass, who has actually been doing some half decent work in Impact the last year or so. Which is more than Braun can say.

As a side note, Impact has been pretty excellent the last few months.

[Ian]

He was pretty bad at the beginning but I seem to remember him being Competent Largeman by the end.

Oh yeah he was suuuuper green and he's never going to be a workhorse type but by 2017 with the Roman matches and some others he'd become very solid. They should have either put the title on him while he was getting big pops or just kept him the fuck away from the "we need to have everybody lose to the F5 so it'll be super exciting when Roman kicks out of 78 of them" thing.

[wullie]

He was good when he was lifting airplanes and turning over barns each week but it got really weird when one of his last things was standing up to Shane McMahon who was bullying him or something equally stupid.

[phonics]

He was standing up for everyone that had ever been called a dumbass and then got sacked and spent a year controlling his narrative.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fbr5IrKXwAA7dSf?format=jpg

:D

I NEED Sami to get some fake Samoan tattoos put on him.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1566006844245823489

:cool:

[phonics]

Big fan of Roman and Drew right up until everything after the bell.

[Waffdon]

Yeah, just skimmed through the matches. I couldn’t tell if BT kept the cameras rolling or not. What was that concert all about?

Sheamus’ match was nice and brutal

[Pleb]

Loaded this up and already I'm livid that Pat McAfee and Corey Graves were not on comms together.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Crowd being super hot really elevated the event.

I think it was fairly good with Sheamus and WALTER being the clear stand out:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FbwGqg9WYAIawpN?format=jpg

In the main event I really was hoping they'd have done something to allow Drew to win a title as he deserves it. I was so pissed off when Solo Sikoa popped up.

Oh and what a weird fucking way to take it off the air.

[Gray Fox]

Roman v Drew was pretty good and genuinely did their best to feel like Drew could win and then they picked a really dull and boring way to finish the match.

Can they really not think of a way for him not to lose that doesn't involve some random Uso coming out to save him? They had the perfect storm tonight I feel.

[Baz]

1566161816270635013

[Ian]

I thought the crowd were pretty up and down and the main event a bit too plodding at times and kept losing a crowd already prone to zoning out a bit. The ending was also a bit too busy. Those two can do much better and all the Fury stuff and post main event bit can do one.

Sheamus / Walter was what I was hoping for, just two big lads battering the fuck out of each other and I liked Rollins / Riddle. I liked the throughline that Riddle is good enough to hang with Rollins but Rollins was actually getting to do his calculating bad guy thing for once and Riddle's brashness was getting the better of him. I preferred those two matches to the main event.

[Ian]

Also Dom looks a right state.

[Disco]

That Benoit shirt was the second best thing on the show.

Gunther / Sheamus was, unsurprisingly, cracking meat-based fun from the stare down at the start to the ovation at the end. Putting the Imperium lads back together has to be a good move too and I'm of the opinion it doesn't matter that they've called them Heinz von German or whatever, although I suppose the saddos chanting 'Walter' is a slight improvement on 'this is awesome' or 'fight forever'.

Reigns / Macintyre had a terrible ending but was fine, lol at anyone thinking they would end that reign outside of America in the middle of their afternoon. Never going to happen.

[Baz]

Praying that MJF is the ladder match joker tonight, coming back to take the belt off Punk and do a Rob Van Dam and hold the title forever, because nobody even comes close to his level.

[Browning]

Punk has a belt to lose?

[wullie]

Dominik Mysterio going sneaky and having a top flight mullet is a beautiful tribute to his biological father.

I like how they didn't have a massive stage but just a fancy enough entrance way surrounded by fans, looks much more lively that way

[Baz]

Punk has a belt to lose?
When he beats Mox yeah.

[Ben]

Do we do spoilers? AEW:

Haha so they actually put the belt back on Punk clean straight away. What a waste of the squash angle a couple of weeks ago. They could have ran with bitter/broken Punk for months before the big redemption.

This company barely makes any sense now.

[Queenslander]

It looks like they are setting up for Punk v MJF for the title.

Edit: Punks post-show scrum rant was mental.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUGI7-9S4QE

[wullie]

Apparently the Elite guys threatened to walk out in a huff. If any of it is real it's the best thing Punk has done since coming back

[Ben]

Well they already nixed a winner-takes-all decider with FTR (which they'd have to lose) so they could play lucha libre with Kenny, so it's on brand.

[Ian]

Generally we don't spoiler and run a "don't open the thread if you don't want the results" policy. Maybe if you're posting a leak ahead of a show or something but even then not really.

I haven't read the full All Out results yet but that Punk / Mox thing seems a bit weird to me.

[wullie]

I saw the NXT show which I guess was on early to not clash with AEW, first time I've seen it since it went full kaleidoscope but the Creed team look impressive although one of them has the head structure of a toddler.

[7om]

Just saw Punk’s post-match press conference.

I don’t even know if it’s a work or a shoot tbh. If it’s a work… who are you working? The 5% of the fan base who actually give a shit about “EVPs” and Colt Cabana? And if it’s a shoot then Punk has sat there, next to the CEO of the company, and shit-talked the executive staff and one of its top baby faces. If it is a shoot, then Tony Khan comes out of this looking terrible. He sat there silent for the whole thing, got shouted down by Punk when he tried to speak up and then asked for one of Punk’s drinks as he walked off. Couldn’t have looked any more weak.

Not sure what AEW are doing anymore.

[Ben]

As a WCW fan, you should know all about working the 1% of internet fans to the bewilderment of everyone else. :D

I think they're trying to turn internet rumours into an angle (classic Russo but Tiny Khan seems to love it too) but like you said it's not going to make money.

[Ian]

The show being thirteen hours long to cram everybody on the card feels like a tribute act to the worst of WCW/ WWE as well. He needs another voice in the room to give him a steer it sounds to me because reviews make it read like that card proved to be as bloated as it looks.

[Ben]

He just needs an actual booker. Obviously not happening but someone like Heyman would make that company must-see overnight.

[7om]

As a WCW fan, you should know all about working the 1% of internet fans to the bewilderment of everyone else. :D

I think they're trying to turn internet rumours into an angle (classic Russo but Tiny Khan seems to love it too) but like you said it's not going to make money.

I think my philosophy of pro wrestling is more along the lines of Jim Cornette. I much prefer adherence to kayfabe rather than all this “nudge nudge wink wink” crap that the indies and AEW love doing.

[Browning]

I'm glad I'm not the only one. No other entertainment medium would get away with it. You couldn't have Phil Mitchell start calling everyone marks for believing he's really bottled someone in the Vic. It just comes across as pretentious shite.

[Ben]

Yep I'm the same. Very occasionally does this approach work. Off the top of my head I can only think of Brian Pillman in 1996 (and to a much lesser degree Juice Robinson quitting NJPW).

[phonics]

I’m shocked that CM Punk is a mahoosive knob and a cry baby. Sadly Marky Khan will never get rid.

[Gray Fox]

This is why I asked the other week if they see Punk as their top star. I'd imagine he beats everyone in merch sales by quite some way. He tends to be a bit of a dick at the best of times.
If it were genuine and it came down to choosing Omega or Punk, who would Tony the mark choose?

[Ben]

Tony clearly books for his own amusement most of the time so God knows. But Punk is by far the biggest star they've got (Jericho is closest but what can you expect from a 50 year-old in the ring, and Danielson seems to be content jobbing to fucking Yuta and Garcia), so he's worth the headache at this point.

Jazz Hands Omega clearly isn't as popular outside of his niche as they might have expected he'd be, though. I myself thought he'd be a bigger success than he has been but he started buying into his own hype when he got the IWGP title (he was tremendous in the two year chase before that) and AEW just sent that into overdrive. In an alternate universe, they might have done it correctly.

[Ian]

Outside of the IWC and AEWs core fan base far more people will have heard of Punk than Onega, so he's definitely the bigger star in that sense.

He does also seem to be a total fanny though.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Onega > Omega.

[Ian]

See, he's such a nobody I couldn't even remember his name.

[Ben]

Harpo Marx.

[wullie]

The whole time Punk is swearing his head off and slagging off colleagues, his billionaire boss is just sat making Jim Halpert faces. In half that time Vince McMahon would have had him taken out back, battered and then paid him off to not tell anyone.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Malakai Black/Tommy End/Aleister Black took a bow and blew a kiss to the crowd after his match.

This after rumours that he has requested a break/release due to mental health issues.

HHH, you know what to do...

[Shindig]

Why? Maybe he wants a break from the business.

[Disco]

I'm not sure there's a thing I care less about than what wrestlers think of each other or what they do before/after the show. All Out had some great matches but it's a bit of a mess otherwise, the trios match was superb as was Ishii/Kingston, the womens 4-way title match was good too. The problem is they're trying to do too many things at once, they need to shed some people and then rotate them in and out. They should also clearly be doing more stuff on tv rather than waiting for the PPV, too many matches on this show, the WWE Cardiff thing on Saturday was a much better length even though most of the matches were guff.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1566912815528566785

Hmmm.

[7om]

Is this a heel turn? If it’s real he needs to go.

[Ben]

Just like the old days. I'm steadily working my way through all the old Observers and this shit happened every week. Unless it's an angle but Dave doesn't normally report angles.

[Ian]

Yeah but not in a beautiful organisation of idealists like Tiny Tony's Top Wrestling Lads. :(

[Ben]

Is this a heel turn? If it’s real he needs to go.

Kenny? Biting his a proper heel move.

[Ian]

Is it biting that I've moaned in here before AEW refs seem to let go about three times a match? Or is it eye gouging? One of those.

[Ian]

1566960756435861507

Fuck thaaaaaat.

[Ben]

That's just ridiculous. Maybe you'd talk about doing something like that in a main event on PPV but not fucking random TV. You'd think he'd know better.

[7om]

Kenny? Biting his a proper heel move.

Punk. If he’s started the altercation by swinging at someone (an executive in the company as well) then he would have to go. Would he swing at Triple H and get away with it? Never.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Kenny? Biting his a proper heel move.
The report is written badly. It was Steel who bit Omega.

[Ben]

So Kenny and the Bucks rocked up to Punk's room. Punk threw punches and Steel threw a chair and bit someone but Kenny and the Bucks did nothing? Seems a bit suspicious but those three are Dave's contacts in AEW so either this is an angle or a very one-sided report.

[Ian]

Angle or shoot, nobody seems to be coming out of it looking well.

Especially Steel. Who fucking bites somebody?

[Ben]

If Steel bit someone, he will be fired (he's a road agent). Which almost guarantees Punk will walk. On the other hand they fire/suspend nobody and it becomes like WCW with the wrestlers running the show. But then Eddie Kingston got suspended for something less serious so then it shows it's one rule for top guys and one rule for everyone else which is extra WCW.

Dave reckons legal proceedings have begun which would make it being a work less likely because faking police reports can get you in some shit (this is how it came to realisation that the Hogan @ Bash at the Beach ultimately wasn't a work too).

[Ian]

One rule for top guys is just wrestling generally. See: the WWE Wellness Policy.

We'll see whether that's any different with HHH in charge but I'd have my doubts.

[Ben]

It looks like they are setting up for Punk v MJF for the title.

Edit: Punks post-show scrum rant was mental.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUGI7-9S4QE

I just watched this.

15:40 onwards. Tony nodding along with Punk when he's calling out the "EVPs", they're turning heel together!

[Ian]

Did Boatman always do a chokeslam? Because the one he did last night was a pretty decent chokeslam.

Also got a pretty decent pop from the crowd. And HHH had the amazing idea of not making the enormous hench bloke where a shirt (which is still an odd one for Vince, given massive muscular blokes were always what he blew his load for.)

[wullie]

For a big fella he's really got himself in good nick too, when he debuted he was all muffin top and nip slips.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Did Boatman always do a chokeslam? Because the one he did last night was a pretty decent chokeslam.

Also got a pretty decent pop from the crowd. And HHH had the amazing idea of not making the enormous hench bloke where a shirt (which is still an odd one for Vince, given massive muscular blokes were always what he blew his load for.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sNGkjscOeU

He's done it a few times.

I don't think it was part of his usual moveset though.

[Ian]

Huh, fair enough. I really don't remember him as a chokeslam guy at all.


For a big fella he's really got himself in good nick too, when he debuted he was all muffin top and nip slips.

He was in this sort of nick before he left too but Vince still wasn't going for it. Should've rebranded himself Braurk Strowsner, maybe that would have done it for him.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I haven't watched RAW yet I hope he's kept his train gimmick.

[Ian]

I haven't watched RAW yet I hope he's kept his train gimmick.

:(

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

At least tell me he's upgraded to ferry.

[Disco]

Integrated Transport Hub Strowman.

[wullie]

On the Wales show I did notice that Matt Riddle has a special effect of goldfish flying about when he got in the ring so HHH is not getting rid of all the batshit nonsense in one go.

[Queenslander]

I just watched this.

15:40 onwards. Tony nodding along with Punk when he's calling out the "EVPs", they're turning heel together!

Tony is truly pathetic for sitting there during the Cabana stuff at the start.

Carny Punk is the most cringe bloke in all of pro wrestling IMO.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

https://411mania.com/wrestling/dlo-brown-exits-impact-wrestling/

One step closer to Wullie's dream of another D'Lo European title run.

[wullie]

I'm getting my chest protector out of storage, here we go

[7om]

Tony is truly pathetic for sitting there during the Cabana stuff at the start.

Carny Punk is the most cringe bloke in all of pro wrestling IMO.

What is Punk’s deal? Constantly moaned about his positioning in WWE and walked out on them. They touched on the subject when Haitch did that interview on Austin’s network show. One day he’s fine and the next he’s stirring shit and going through mood swings. He’s just a weird bloke. Question is; is he more trouble than what he’s worth?

[Queenslander]

What is Punk’s deal? Constantly moaned about his positioning in WWE and walked out on them. They touched on the subject when Haitch did that interview on Austin’s network show. One day he’s fine and the next he’s stirring shit and going through mood swings. He’s just a weird bloke. Question is; is he more trouble than what he’s worth?

The bloke has always had delusions of grandeur going all the way back to ROH in the 2000's so I guess it's just more of that but with the added negative of having a piss weak boss. He's isnt worth the trouble in my opinion as his in ring stuff is meh.

I wouldnt be surprised if Punk has bipolar.

[Gray Fox]

Phil Brooks loves Phil Brooks.

In reality he walked out on Vince because he couldn’t deal with being bumped down the card like everyone else.
By the time he walked because he didn’t main event mania, his time was passed as the new hotness and it was all about Daniel Bryan.
He was a dick to almost everyone but Colt Cobana back then and he soon sorted that one out.

[Queenslander]

"Scott Colton shares a bank a account with his mother" was an absolute cracker as far as carny bullshit goes.

[Ben]

https://411mania.com/wrestling/dlo-brown-exits-impact-wrestling/

One step closer to Wullie's dream of another D'Lo European title run.

https://c.tenor.com/9FaypvDjLR8AAAAC/dlo-brown.gif

[Ben]

Meltzer reckons they've all been suspended. No word how long.

[Queenslander]

I wonder if the title goes back to Moxley or they go straight to MJF?

Trios titles probably go to Best Friends.

[Ben]

I can't imagine the suspension will be long so they'll probably investigate their other dozen titles for a couple of weeks before they're back.

[Queenslander]

Good point Im sure the ROH TV title is due some TV time.

[Baz]

I was already crazy excited for MJFs first promo back but now he’s been spoonfed even more material to lap it up. They might as well let him have the last hour of the show.

[Ben]

Surely with Punk suspended they will build Dynamite tonight around MJF. He can easily hype the match by himself. I might actually watch the whole thing for once (*old-man-yelling-at-cloud review incoming*).

Although I wouldn't be surprised if they turn this into a big work and the two hours is dedicated to Punk, Omega and the Bucks in a WCW-style stroking of the egos.

[7om]

You obsessed with WCW or something?

[Ben]

The parallels are uncanny.

[wullie]

If Tony Khan didn't grow up mostly watching 90s WCW I'd be amazed.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1567549457700626432

McAfee joining College Gameday on a full time basis for this season so will be taking a break from WWE :(

[Ian]

Eh, I'm not entirely fussed. He's been getting a bit much at times recently.

Admittedly his replacement will presumably be somebody rubbish.

[Baz]

Sammy Guevara accusing Darby Allin of loving turtles is one of the most underrated comments in a long time. :lol:

Also Wardlow is being criminally wasted in boring power bomb squash matches. He should be in the grand slam.

[Ben]

Wardlow and FTR have been utterly squandered in the last couple of months and you can't argue it's because of anything but politics.

Vacating the titles was something I didn't expect.

[Ben]

The Moxley promo was excellent (that's two weeks in a row now). It went a long way to re-establishing the importance of the World title after the clusterfuck of the last month. I'm not a fan of his matches most of the time but he's really carried the entire company on his back since the COVID pandemic began. Also, during the promo someone holds up an "Elite" sign with a bite taken out of it. :D

The MJF promo was...surreal. Started out as the ultimate babyface then starting throwing in random comments like how much Tiny is paying him. Tremendous delivery though as always.

I'll watch the Danielson match but that's it. The six-man shit is done already so I don't care about that match even though I like PAC (like fucking seriously, the Bucks nixed the decider with FTR for all the titles to go do this crap and now they're out on their arse already) and a Garcia/Yuta main event can fuck right off.

EDIT: The Danielson match was good. He's just so smooth. But Hangman hasn't improved in like four years, he's still doing them same spots which requires the opponent to obviously set themselves up for it and stand around like a bottle of milk. Still, very good for TV standards and the right man went through. It's probably time they put the title on him.

[Queenslander]

I reckon Wardlow will be the one to beat MJF down the line.

[wullie]

If there's one thing you can say about Tony Khan, he bloody loves a tournament.

[Shindig]

Mortal Khanbat.

[Disco]

Dynamite was pretty good I thought, seemed far less rushed than it has recently. Helped by MJF and Moxley being really very good indeed, Moxley in particular. Shame that United Empire were halfway back around the world as they would have made a perfect trios title team, not that PAC et al are bad it's just a shame to see them (presumably) used as the stopgap. Bit of a ropey women's match but then a fantastic main event, they've done a great job building people like Yuta and Garcia and I do like a show that gives me trios lucha bollocks as well as more traditional catch wrestling type stuff. It would be nice if Rampage isn't just an afterthought and is back to being three decent matches but I won't hold my breath.

[Ben]

Rampage was actually good this week?! Great main event and Samoa Joe segment. The women’s division is appalling at the moment though. They need to stick to dark matches until they’re good enough (there’s only like three of them who can work).

Baz will hate it because there was no gymnastics in the main event but it’s a thumbs up from me.

[Baz]

Baz will hate it because there was no gymnastics in the main event but it’s a thumbs up from me.Anything with Dax Harwood gets a thumbs up from me.

Except that dumb spinning move.

[Ian]

Oh I forgot it was Claudio and Dax. Will need to watch that.

[Ian]

https://whatculture.com/wwe/former-aew-star-calls-cm-punk-a-34-c-nt-34

Fish. :cool:

[Ian]

NXT looks to be going Black and Gold again.

Also in reading the review of last night's episode I discovered "Hank Walker" who looks like some sort of Pratt-Rogen lovechild.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I watched RAW today and I would be more than happy if they decided they want to put every single belt on KO.

[Ian]

He's so good. HHH clearly likes him so I hope he gets his chance at a proper title run at some point.

[Ben]

Their most natural promo guy in years. Gargano needs some acting lessons though. And that’s about my entire takeaway from Raw.

And Dynamite was just ok too this week with the MJF promo (obviously) and the main event; it was nice to see Jericho work that type of match. Their women’s division needs killing off until they figure it out.

I suppose ok is a win these days. Nothing dreadful that makes me turn it off like usual.

There’s been a lot of buzz about the Jun Kasai vs. El Desperado deathmatch so I give it a go. I don’t like deathmatch shit usually but Kasai is a legend and Despy is awesome in regular matches. About two minutes Kasai did the most obvious blade in history on Despy so that got turned off in a hurry. :D

[Ian]

Watched Smackdown there. Some fun matches but three "babyface vs. heel numbers game" matches in a row suggests either a lack of joined-up thinking or that they just don't think that makes things a bit samey.

All the matches had something to be positive about though. The layers of the Bloodline stuff is excellent (Heyman's body language when Sami comes in to take over 'dealing with' Logan Paul is great) and at least Reigns vs. Paul is (presumably) happening on a Saudi show I have zero interest in. Rodriguez vs. Bayley did a good job of making the former look decent in defeat and I loved the bit where Iyo and Kai tried to cut her off from chasing Bayley so Rodriguez just casually picked up one and threw her at the other.

Sikoa's interaction with the Usos is interesting depending what (if anything) that is setting up and while the match was harmed by having Sami constantly interfere because they'd done that two matches already but thought it was a decent showing for both. They need to take "Madcap" off his name but the man is quite an athlete and they need to just have him wrestle loads and see what they've got there.

Tag team main event was just fun as those four ways tend to be, I'm glad "Butch" (sigh) was at least wrestling in Pete Dunne gear so crossing my fingers his name is on HHH's to do list and it possibly bodes well for Hit Row that the crowd popped for some of Top Dolla's strength spots.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1571867194526695424

“We'll have a men's WarGames match and a women's WarGames match…This will not be Raw versus SmackDown. It will be much more story-line driven.”

WARGAMES.

[wullie]

They need to buy William Regal out of his AEW contract so he can announce it otherwise there's no point bothering.

[Shindig]

Nah, just get Heyman to do it and call it Brawgames.

[Ian]

Ugh, was sort of hoping they wouldn't bring WarGames to main roster.

Still:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzQZ8MKfxrM

[Ian]

Riddle / Rollins fight pit is gonna have a different feel to it to the two fight pit matches with Thatcher in when NXT used the stipulation but I'm keen to see what they do with it, and it's probably a better grudge match stipulation than the cage given escaping to win isn't a thing.

[Ben]

Apparently Raw was genuinely great last night. Lots of fucky finishes but they progressed actual storylines towards the PPV so maybe that can be forgiven. I'll fly through it at some point this week and no doubt be back to moan about Gargano or something.

[Ian]

Yeah there are a couple of matches I'm going to watch. Rollins / Bobbo is just an obvious pairing, Riddle / Rey is a fun pairing and I'll watch KO do anything.

As you say a few fucky finishes biy getting those out the way to progress angles on TV so you can hopefully have more meaningful finishes on PPV later is how it should be done.

[Ian]

Rollins / Lashley was really solid. A nice early tease of the Stomp but didn't happen in a way I don't remember them doing before, as above they still do too many finishes with interference / distractions but this one at least made sense and worked for all involved.

KO and Theory was decent too. KO's not been pinned since HHH took over.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1572376939285086210

Why not have him in the match and have him lose? Or why even put it on him?

That's so weird and it's akin to the Keith Lee double champ "reign".

Just seems so lazy.

[Ben]

Just seems so lazy.

http://i.imgur.com/r6oDv7q.png

And to be fair, Shawn was the master of dropping a title without laying down for it.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

The first survival round in QM this month :D

[Ben]

Seems like Dynamite was pretty full on.

Moxley wins the AEW title. I'm disappointed it's not Danielson for match quality but really this is the correct business decision and they missed boat with Danielson when he was heel.

Jericho wins the ROH title. Erm, ok. Why did they bother signing Claudio again? Tony was giving it large about him carrying the ROH brand not so long ago.

The Acclaimed win the AEW Tag Team titles. These fuckers are white hot. Clearly not the long term plan but after All Out they had to do this ASAP.

Paige debuted, as Saraya. What the fuck. At least the women's division instantly improves hugely but I thought she was crippled?

And on Rampage, apparently, fucking Great Muta confronted Sting. +1 viewer.

[Shindig]

I figured with Paige it's more about keeping her out of the frame until some doctor cleared her. Even if she is knackered, what else is she going to do?

[Gray Fox]

Moxley should have stayed champ last time tbf. Hopefully this is them learning the CM Punk lesson. Jericho just feels like he's belt collecting at this point too.

As for Saraya, I thought it was like Bryan? He was probably okay to go but WWE didn't want the risk of anything happening further so they just shelved him. Helps they didn't really want him in the main event picture at the time too, I feel.

[Ben]

Must be. But I remember Paige saying "one more bad bump and I'm paralysed/dead" or something similar. If she wasn't lying I'd be pretty nervous if I was Tony.

[wullie]

Is ROH going to be anything? At the moment it just feels like more belts to cover what's already a ridiculously crowded market in AEW.

[Gray Fox]

Looks like AEW are going to buy CM Punk out and he'll be done for good.

[Ben]

Is ROH going to be anything? At the moment it just feels like more belts to cover what's already a ridiculously crowded market in AEW.

Well on the plus side it seems like they've forgot about the Trios titles already (between Dynamite and Rampage there were about 20 matches and they couldn't find a spot for it).

Which proves it was just an ego rub for Omega and the Bucks so they could do flippy shit with their mates instead of actually earning the company money. So burning that entire winner-takes-all match with FTR (who have been disregarded since) was well worth it in the end eh. Punk is getting a lot of flak (some of it deserved) but these three idiots have a lot to answer for.

[Shindig]

Yeah, instead of creating an alternative to WWE, they've made it a closed shop.

[Ian]

The world title situation is a mess. They need to keep it on Moxley until whenever MJF takes it off him.

[wullie]

Trios sounds rubbish as well, either call it six-man tag or rename the tag division as duos.

[Ben]

The world title situation is a mess. They need to keep it on Moxley until whenever MJF takes it off him.

Yep. Danielson might have resulted in better matches but Moxley has really stepped up after the backstage scuffle so him carrying it until MJF is ready is the only way to re-legitimise it.

[Ian]

Also Jericho taking the ROH title off Claudio feels a bit WWECW title.


Looks like AEW are going to buy CM Punk out and he'll be done for good.

HHH must be allowing himself an "I told you so" moment with all this Punk stuff. The man has an ego the size of a house and it's super fragile at that.

(And Punk is no better, lol, etc.)

[Ben]

Also Jericho taking the ROH title off Claudio feels a bit WWECW title.

If they keep going with a Jericho-Danielson feud and switch the title to Danielson to run with long-term then I can forgive it, but Claudio has just been squandered since joining; they debuted him randomly against ZSJ because Danielson was injured but he got a good win then did absolutely nothing until randomly taking the ROH title off Gresham then did nothing again until beating Dax Harwood last week (the FTR situation is a whole other fucking shitshow as well) and now they've whipped it off him because plans have evidently changed again.

[wullie]

Love what I've seen of the Acclaimed, crafty of them to cut his mic off for a few weeks after the big scrap too. The only thing I haven't liked is when Billy Gunn's kids battered him and he immediately got over it and start scissoring his new kids within seconds.

[Ben]

Selling and psychology are lost arts.

[Baz]

Billy Gunn looks in incredible shape. What a man. Even landed a decent Famouser last night. :cool:

[Ian]

Paige/Saraya genuinely doesn't look like Paige any more.

[Ben]

Funny how a surprise signing was actually a surprise now the Bucks aren't around to leak it to Dave. :sherlock:

[Gray Fox]

What becomes of Omega and the Young Bucks now then? Everything I've seen of Smalltime Tony says he'll just let them come back as if nothing ever happened, but surely not when they've been causing fights that needed belts vacating as a result?

[Gray Fox]

Paige/Saraya genuinely doesn't look like Paige any more.

She'd already started down a bad path around the "PAIGE HERE!" times but she now looks absolutely nothing close to how she looked in NXT.

Big fan of her using her boyfriends music though.

[wullie]

If they let all the elite dorks back surely they can't still be executives as well. Replace them with Regal and Mark Henry and keep everyone in line.

[Ben]

If they let all the elite dorks back surely they can't still be executives as well. Replace them with Regal and Mark Henry and keep everyone in line.

This has got to be the way.

[Queenslander]

The Elite are the main reason for AEW existence Tony wont be stripping them of the EVP roles that's madness.

[Ian]

He could, if he had a spine, because it's his money at the end of the day and the AEW fanbase is probably entrenched enough that he doesn't have to pander to the Elite, but not sure he has it in him to give 'em the good news.

[Queenslander]

Surely it's not as simple as Tony buying them out? I actually dont know what they have done wrong apart from going out of their way to get Tony to hire Punk.

[Ian]

Well they got involved in a big scrap because they hired a dickhead and didn't like it when he went on to be a dickhead.

I dunno what the legalities are, but if he can he should.

[Shindig]

The simple fact is, EVP's shouldn't be doing that. Also, EVPs that are also active talent is prime for conflicts of interest.

[Ian]

Yeah but not being EVPs anymore might not work for them, brother.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

And they probably wouldn't accept a hug from Tony.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1573468354915991560

Sami Zayn is too damn good.

[Ian]

There are not many things I would "mark out" for these days, but if they gave Sami a (doomed) title shot against Roman I'd be there for it, heart and soul. He's probably getting a tag win with KO at so e point but seriously, face Sami vs heel Roman would be a classic.

[Baz]

Wait what. How long has Roman Reigns been champion for now? :lol:

[wullie]

Tony Khan's dad being very rich is the reason AEW exists really and they've grown beyond needing any particular individuals. If the EVPs were all that vital the company managed to get by when one was gone for the year and another was at Wrestlemania.

[Queenslander]

I dont think they are vital as EVP's I just cant see their roles changing at all going forward.

It was carny of them to confront Punk in his room.

[Ben]

Wait what. How long has Roman Reigns been champion for now? :lol:

There’s not really an alternative who can work full time. He’s so far above the rest of them. But that’s their own fault for not creating anyone new.

But long reigns legitimise the title so there’s that. Whoever eventually beats him, it’ll be a massive deal.

[Gray Fox]

Wait what. How long has Roman Reigns been champion for now? :lol:

Last time he was pinned was at TLC 2019(December 2019) by King Corbin. The reign is now since August 2020, but he's held both belts since Mania this year.

This was great for legitimising him then, but is causing them a big time headache now. They need the belts separated going into Mania season, but they do not want him losing in any way on the run up as they're supposed to be getting Dwayne back for one big last hurrah.

Best shot they might have is to put both belts on the line in a ladder match somewhere, have someone like maybe a Seth Rollins against him, both go up a ladder and grab a title each and fall off the ladder with them. Match counts as a draw so he doesn't lose, but one of the titles is now away from him.

[Ben]

Having two world titles is ridiculous but the whole product is held to ransom by two rival TV networks now so here we are.

[Ian]

1573468354915991560

Sami Zayn is too damn good.

The Bloodline stuff is pretty good again with him in. That whole bit was good and I love that all the Bloodline have distinct feelings about him. Heyman just wants him to shut up, Reigns doing the sinister smiling shark routine until he runs out of uses for him, Jey desperately wants to kick his head in but Jimmy seems to quite like him, etc.

The tag match was good fun too though WWE are really trying to cram as many people onto the show as they can right now.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

https://www.f4wonline.com/news/aew/aew-not-granting-any-requests-for-release

Malakai Black and Buddy Matthews not getting released.

[Ian]

Yeah Cocaine Tony is really leaning into this "adopt everything WWE abandons" thing, so having picked up Vince's "don't release anybody no matter how little we need them" policy of 2017 or so I assume by 2024ish he'll be cutting people in swathes.

[Baz]

Buddy Matthews is so good. It’s criminal they’ve stuck him with that human botch machine.

[Ian]

Buddy Matthews is so good. It’s criminal they’ve stuck him with that human botch machine.

Would that be the one who's not Malakai in House of Black?

But yes, Buddy is amazing. WWE having him, him wrestling great matches for about four months straight on TV then going LOL BAD LUCK PAL is a solid example of Vince having lost the plot.

[Ian]

Also Raw was pretty solid again this week. 3 or 4 really decent matches, plenty of story/character progression.

And this "white rabbit" stuff they're doing to presumably build to Bray's return is by WWE standards remarkably subtle given it's very much a "fan engagement" sort of build.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Would that be the one who's not Malakai in House of Black?

But yes, Buddy is amazing. WWE having him, him wrestling great matches for about four months straight on TV then going LOL BAD LUCK PAL is a solid example of Vince having lost the plot.

205 Live also had an amazing run with him, Ali, Gulak, Cedric and Tony Nese.

[Baz]

No I actually meant Brodie King. It’s a wonder he hasn’t killed Darby Allin.

[Ben]

And this "white rabbit" stuff they're doing to presumably build to Bray's return is by WWE standards remarkably subtle given it's very much a "fan engagement" sort of build.

I think it might be Edge. There's too many obvious references to Judgment Day (specifically Finn Balor "Demon" and Dominik "Patricide").

Although the way to go is have Edge be the White Rabbit and almost immediately re-debut Bray as the new Judgment Day leader just to work everyone.

[wullie]

Pretty obvious White Rabbit is Vince McMahon. It was him all along, Austin!

[Ian]

I think it might be Edge. There's too many obvious references to Judgment Day (specifically Finn Balor "Demon" and Dominik "Patricide").

Although the way to go is have Edge be the White Rabbit and almost immediately re-debut Bray as the new Judgment Day leader just to work everyone.

I just doubt it'll be anybody who's currently doing stuff on TV and Edge came back on Raw but I might be wide of the mark there

These things usually herald a return/ debut rather than a repackage and "feed your head" and "who killed the world? You did" sound very Brayish to me. But we'll see.

Whoever it is, I still like that they're doing something which is so far quite low key and non intrusive.

[Ben]

I haven't watched this week's Raw so forget I said anything. :D

[Ian]

:D

Well you see they have another exciting month of Edge burying The Judgement Day to do.

[Baz]

Would that be the one who's not Malakai in House of Black?
It seems I misread this. Yes.

Also this weeks Dynamite is so bad.

I’m not familiar with Paige but my god send Saraya back.

[Ben]

Yeah it was shit. I've managed to whizz through it all in half an hour.

Danielson's matches haven't been top level for a while now (apart from the Jericho one the other week) but it takes some bad booking to get an awful match out of him. Moxley/Juice was just OK as a TV match but if you've seen them in New Japan this is clearly way below their capability together. I just skip women's matches now, the division is tragic. And I didn't care for the ROH match, can no fucker throw a punch anymore?

Promos weren't any better. MJF was great obviously but Yuta did his best to destroy the segment. And Saraya, oh boy what the fuck was that?

Crowd was dead. I'm done with AEW again for a while I think.

[Ian]

Also liked Tiny Tony saying (or reported as saying?) he had no idea what he was gonna do with ROH when buying them. What with this and the "No releases I don't care how much you hate being here" rule his Vince energy is really intensifying.

[Ben]

I've been reading through Dave Meltzer's old Observers over the past couple of years and I've not long finished 2001. The cluelessness surrounding what they should do with WCW and the whole invasion thing was incredible.

[Ian]

I doubt anything will top that as far as missed booking opportunities go.

Burying guys because they're WCW when they're now YOUR GUYS though? Chef kiss, Vince, you absolute moron.

[wullie]

Haven't AEW registered a name for a women's show as well? It feels like he's started a company and immediately tried to do everything WWE has done but all at the same time. It doesn't need all the shows, stables, turns, titles, tournaments, interim titles, people that debut and disappear, extra companies to add even more titles, what a mess.

[Ben]

I doubt anything will top that as far as missed booking opportunities go.

Burying guys because they're WCW when they're now YOUR GUYS though? Chef kiss, Vince, you absolute moron.

The only excuse is that all the big names that would have made it work (Goldberg, Hogan, Nash, Flair) were tied up in Time Warner contracts until 2002-03. Other than The Rock who had a movie career starting, all the WWF guys worked every house show and operated within the salary structure (most of Austin's money was from merchandise revenue) and the WCW guys weren't going to go for that.

So to make it work, they would have had to buy out the Time Warner contracts (which is fine, because PPV money would have paid for it many times over) but then piss off all the current guys who will suddenly want pay rises and lighter schedules and that's how WCW destroyed their house show business. It was a sticky situation but one in hindsight Vince had to do because it was scary how hard business fell after WrestleMania 17 (eg. they panicked and bought out Flair in November 2001).

But Vince was never going to let it happen anyway. They paid $400k to buy out DDP who debuted to a monstrous pop and then within weeks he's being pinned by Undertaker's wife. Even in 2002, Hogan and Nash had to fight tooth and nail to get Vince to agree to them using the nWo gimmick when they returned.

It wasn't ever going to be plain sailing to make the angle pay off but it's still the biggest bungle in the history of the business. Hundreds of millions were potentially left on the table.

[Ian]

The "Vince wouldn't buy out the top stars" thing is true but as you've then gone into that's no excuse for burying what you've got and making the Dudley Boyz some.of the top Alliance stars at Invasion or Shane McFuckingMahon one of the key parts of their Survivor Series team, or never once trying to make the WCW champion look a big deal, etc.

Make Booker T look like a killer heel, not some fluky jobber who needs Shane's help. Don't have WCWs babyface be a creepy cuck heel who gets battered by Sara. When RVD gets super over just make him a more central cog in the story.

But then as we've all long suspected and had conclusively proven over the last month or so, Vince for a long time made booking wrestling seem a lot harder than it is.

[Ben]

Back then, as it was happening, Dave was repeatedly mentioning how the WWF guys were complaining that the WCW guys didn't know how to work, in an obvious attempt to bury the whole thing (Triple H and Undertaker being prime suspects). They didn't want their spots taking. We all know Triple H was a ridiculous politician back then (even when he was out with the quad injury he'd turn up to every TV taping to stick his oar in) but Undertaker was horrific; there was one instance where him and Kane were literally being attacked by 15 Alliance guys and he wouldn't hit the mat to sell it, he just rested on the turnbuckle until Austin arrived to clean house.

One thing I learnt reading the Observers is the genesis of the whole "Alliance" name. At first, around the Invasion PPV they were just calling them WCW and ECW as you would expect but the problem was they didn't own any ECW trademarks yet. All that was still in bankruptcy court (Heyman filed the wrong type of bankruptcy so it dragged on) but Heyman didn't own the full company anymore, he sold 15% to Acclaim (video game creator) in exchange for a loan in 2000 to keep them going. So it turned out Acclaim had a partial claim to ECW trademarks and they were ready to sue WWF for infringement if they didn't drop it. A load of boring shite you might think, but that's why they suddenly stopped referencing the actual company names in favour of "Alliance" which obviously didn't help get the angle over either.

[wullie]

Those Acclaim games were awful too. Up down left left X Y semi-circle L1 to throw a punch, get fucked.

[Shindig]

Play-er One!
Play-er One!

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Antonio Inoki RIP.

[Ben]

Shit. RIP you crazy man. Obituaries are Meltzer’s speciality. I’ll post it when he gets it out. Inoki had one of the most eventful lives in wrestling history. Splitting from JWA to form his own company and go to war with Baba, fighting Muhammad Ali, posting the highest TV viewing figures in Japanese history, embezzling his own company to pay off failed business interests in Brazil, being forced out of his own company for it, going into politics, regaining power in his own company and nearly killing it because of an MMA obsession (like putting his World champion up against fucking Cro Cop in a shoot).

Utterly mental.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Daniel Cormier as guest ref for Riddle/Rollins. Lol.

[Ian]

Yeah I saw that. WWE love them some MMAers.

I'm not averse to the idea in principle but surely you're meant to justify a guest ref by having had a normal ref who can't handle himself prove unable to keep them in line?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

A WWE ref just can't cope with THE FIGHT PIT.

[Ben]

New Japan were in London over the weekend and apparently the FTR tag match was absolutely incredible. I'll have to watch it to see if it's the case but I love FTR and everyone is raving about it, despite being pretty negative about the whole weekend in the build up because the cards were more like a house show than a special event like the last time they were here.

And FTR cut a massive promo on Tony Khan which considering how they've been buried the last few months was probably a complete shoot. Even though I will probably agree with their sentiment, I've got no time for shoot promos during shows. Speak to Rob Feinstein or Sean Oliver if you want to open up.

[Queenslander]

Pretty harmless.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La6z6X7tyvo

[Ben]

Oh, that was nothing. Serves me right for reading about it before watching it.

[Queenslander]

Read before watching is how I consume wrestling for the most part.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1577160437141061633

:D

dots

[Ben]

:lol:

Wrestling Twitter is only ever good when they heel it up.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1577317201706713088

More drama in AEW?

[phonics]

1567190149427249152

[Ben]

AEW is just embarrassing now.

[Shindig]

Do they even have guys running talent relations?

[Gray Fox]

Large bet that Smalltime Tony does it himself.

[Shindig]

And the medical that Saraya hasn't had yet.

[wullie]

I think they got Tony Schiavone doing something like talent relations but you'd hope they first asked Jim Ross, a man who's done that exact job in the biggest company.

[Ben]

Isn't it some wanker like QT Marshall, whoever he is.

[Waffdon]

Otis and Gable are the best thing alongside Rollins based on the small amount I watch on YouTube. Has Otis always been hilarious? I also like how they had him actually win and Gable not get squashed.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Yeah Otis is brilliant.

Just a shame they boned him with his MITB run.

[wullie]

Chad Gable should have been Kurt Angle's son when they did that as well rather than picking the guy with an actual broken neck.

[Disco]

I wish they'd filmed this backstage fight, been ages since I've seen Andrade wrestle.

[Ian]

Otis and Gable are the best thing alongside Rollins based on the small amount I watch on YouTube. Has Otis always been hilarious? I also like how they had him actually win and Gable not get squashed.

There are lots of people moaning about him getting a reasonable showing against Boatman because idiots think you can't be a big lad unless you win a match of one way traffic every time.

Gable is great and I hope that him getting so much TV time.is a bit of a sign that HHH loves him but you can't rehab a whole roster of singles careers at the same time and somebody has to take the losses.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1578072276993548295

Byron not commentating will be a joy.

Wade Barrett :cool:

[Lewis]

'Imb Wade Barrutt and Imb backin the Dubble-yew-dubble-yew-ee.'

[Ian]

Smith was alright so this seems a little harsh but I suppose all I mean he was one commentator at the end of the Vince era who didn't actually make things actively worse, but nor did he really add much.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1578380146662416388

Stunned they've let him go, he was the best commentator in the company.

[Ben]

He only did NXT UK didn't he? And that looks to be pretty much finished.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

He did some NXT pre-pandemic too and he was on Main Event and NXT Level Up.

Strange that they've got fucking Booker T in to do that starting next week rather than Nigel.

Nigel and Cole would have been a really good duo on Smackdown too.

Edit: It seems Main Event has actually been done by Kevin Patrick and Saxton for over a year.

[wullie]

I thought Kevin Patrick was some new guy, he's been there for a year already?

[Ian]

McGuinness is great and as the best thing about NXT commentary (sorry Mauro) I'm astonished Trips let him go.

[Gray Fox]

We're apparently getting the White Rabbit pay off at Extreme Rules.

I'm interested to see what he's come up with this time and where he fits onto the card. Surely he's not up against Roman soon because he'd have to lose and the new character would be pointless again. Does he go and run through the mid carders again?

[Shindig]

What if it's just a ruse to keep an Undertaker return a secret?

[Browning]

There goes any help for the HHH era.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I really, really, really hope it's not Bray.

I just don't get him at all and the fact that 99% of THE UNIVERSE are moist for him baffles me.

[Shindig]

They're moist for the gimmick but the last thing I remember of him was the sledgehammer bollocks. He can't make the best of bad booking and there will be plenty of that.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

They're moist for the gimmick but the last thing I remember of him was the sledgehammer bollocks. He can't make the best of bad booking and there will be plenty of that.

They're fucking gushing over him and always have been. It's mental.

I'm judging this on Twitter and Reddit comments so a high number of nutters but still.

[Disco]

As interesting as some of the ideas and characters have been they inevitably end up with a Bray Wyatt match at the end. Unless it's more of Randy Orton trashing his spooky wendy house then I'm out.

[Shindig]

Does he still do the crab walk? If he could figure out a way for that to be a viable move, that'd be something.

[Dark Soldier]

Didn't know this shite was tonight. IPTV coming in clutch again. Fuck knows what any of these weird matches are.

[Gray Fox]

Sheamus and Walter leathering 7 shades of shit out of each other hasn't gotten old yet.

[Dark Soldier]

Scarlett has made me very interested in WWE again. Fair play.

[Gray Fox]

It felt like they ran short on time in the "fight pit." Finish seemed rush and was quite shit, but had to be got out of the way for Wyatt.

He's got a new mask but immediately took it off, so it seems there's no Fiend business going on this time. Interesting that they closed the show with him. Crowd were lapping it up too.

[Ian]

- Some weird slow spots in the middle of the six man tag but otherwise it was the fun you'd expect it to be and Walter and Sheamus battering each other is just good value (their Smackdown match was good too.) I liked that at the start when it wouldn't make sense for anybody to be beaten up yet they had the camera trying to get a bit of each fight, felt a bit like how they'd have done that sort of chaotic 'lots of people brawling around the ring' stuff in the olde dayes.

- Rousey and Liv was a bit sloppy. Rousey had to win though because they've totally botched the Liv title reign in the end. Having built her up as an underdog babyface quite well they clearly didn't expect the crowd to turn on her the way they did after the missed tapout against Rousey before and weren't able to recover it.

- Kross and McIntyre was boring and the crowd couldn't have given much less of a shit either.

- Belair vs. Bayley was good but then I'd have been surprised if it wasn't. Couple of bits where both of them seemed a bit confused as to what spot they had next (what was Belair doing with that ladder right before the end?) but otherwise it was fun. I thought Bayley was going to win but Belair is great so don't mind getting some more of her as champ.

- Why does every Edge match have to be so fucking long? I Quit matches as a snore at the best of times because you're just waiting for it to start setting up the spot where somebody might actually say the words and you're killing time before then, and this had way too much Attitude Era style mooch-and-fight in the crowd. At least Edge actually lost for once though.

- Did anybody at WWE google what Cormier looks like these days before getting him in for this? Fuck me he's got the same physique as I have and nobody's expecting me to be able to fill in Rollins or Riddle. I didn't think the Fight Pit worked as well as the NXT one and changing the layout of it a bit so the sides were higher (presumably so you weren't fucking up line of sight for half the crowd because I think the two NXT FP matches were both in lockdown?) basically just made it a cage match+. As Fox said, not sure if they ran short and then the end was a bit of a wet fart because the crowd clearly didn't know Rollins had tapped until the bell went. Still, at least he did actually tap, not many mens guys near the top of the card actually do that these days.

- I come and go on the Bray stuff basically for the reason Disco said. He's one guy who maybe needs a bit more of an editor for his promos but they then really need to be careful who they pair him with for when you get to the actual blowoff match because as ace as Firefly Funhouse was you can't just do those all the time. Will be curious to see what they have in store but regardless of anything else I thought that closing segment was done well and the crowd went fucking ape for it and anything that gets a mega crowd reaction is going to seem better.

[Ian]

Oh, and also, they've already just made Kross look like a dude who simply can't win unless his missus does heavy lifting for him.

EDIT: Also also, small thing, but notable that Maggle listed a 1993 WCW match as the best strap match of all time. A low bar but Vince would undoubtedly have had them claiming some Ruthless Agression era shit was.