The Ultimate WWE Thread

[Baz]

Whew, that MJF promo. :happycry:

[Queenslander]

House of Black might be a smokey as first Trios champs.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxTuVZQ0OVU

[Browning]

Who needs Shane when you can put Vince in the ring.

[Gray Fox]

Shane in the ring you say? Yes please.

[Disco]

Who needs Shane when you can put Vince in the ring.

Surely this won't actually happen, it would be a complete trainwreck.

[Ian]

https://whatculture.com/wwe/its-official-wwe-doesnt-know-what-34-unification-34-means

:D

What a company.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

They're fucking idiots.

[Ian]

Multiversal Title coming up. :drool:

[Ian]

Also I see Edge turned heel on Styles last night. He's getting to Big Show levels of alignment flip-floppery since his return.

[Shindig]

He ought to snap his neck for that.

[wullie]

It'd be nice if they're just making an excuse to ditch the universal title for something a little less stupid. Get the big gold back and give it to HHH again

[Shindig]

Make the skull the title. Is that sitting in the back somewhere? Was it a skull or a golden egg? Time, words and wrestling has no meaning.

[Ian]

It'd be nice if they're just making an excuse to ditch the universal title for something a little less stupid. Get the big gold back and give it to HHH again

I think we all know they'd rather bin all the history of the WWE title than the Universal.


It'd be nice if they're just making an excuse to ditch the universal title for something a little less stupid. Get the big gold back and give it to HHH again

It was a golden egg, and I fully endorse this idea. Fuck the WWE title.

[Shindig]

And give it magic powers like it's the Dragonballs or something.

"He's assembled the WWE Power Gems. BROCK HAS BECOME TOO POWERFUL."

[Ian]

Every Easter Sunday they have a PPV, Armeggeddon, and the current holder has to fight the latest incarnation of the Gobbledygooker in a Hell in a Hen House match.

[Shindig]

And there's a tomb on set with allows for a SURPRISE RETURN after 3 DAYS OF SILENCE.

[wullie]

The championship scramble matches basically book themselves.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1498818550353436677

[Ian]

I wasn't watching when this theme was in use:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHjftB_dDmM&t=24s

I absolutely love that.

[Browning]

I couldn’t remember it but had a feeling it sounded like a Randy Newman song and I wasn’t wrong.

[Disco]

Cocaine Tony now owns Ring of Honor.

[Queenslander]

Pure Wrestling Champion Bryan Danielson. :drool:

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I guess that solves the problem of a bloated roster.

[wullie]

Love that his announcement was met with Shane McMahon chants.

[Ian]

Love that his announcement was met with Shane McMahon chants.

Really? :D

He should sign him. That'd fucking learn 'em.

[phonics]

AEW reccomendations:

https://i.imgur.com/1wIhbLw.png

[Ben]

I was only going to bother watching Moxley vs. Danielson, but I've heard great things about the Dog Collar match, which I'm intrigued about because there's not been a good one for about 40 years.

[Disco]

The whole show was pretty good but Punk/MJF and Moxley/Danielson were the stand outs.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Booking a dog collar match is a great way to try and kill the wanking dogs rumour.

[Baz]

Avoiding spoilers as still got loads left but some early takeaways:

Red Dragon are dreadful. They don’t deserve to share a ring with the Young Bucks and Jurassic Express.
I love how camp Ricky Starks is. Him and Jake Atlas could have a great fued eventually.
Tay Conti should never do a piledriver ever again. Good job Jade Cargill had such awareness or else it was a neck breaker for sure.

[Ben]

Red Dragon are dreadful.

Either they've massively nosedived in the last few years or you have weird tastes. Kyle O'Reilly is/was legitimately one of the best technical wrestlers of his generation and reDRagon one of the best tag teams outright. Their work in ROH and NJPW then NXT was phenomenal.

[Ian]

O'Reilly/Fish are a very good team but I dunno if that match showed the best of them. This is the only thing I've seen of them in AEW.

I didn't watch the whole show.

Kingston vs. Jericho - Pretty good. Nothing to write home about but Jericho helped make Kingston look great, it was nice that Kingston got the win and it helps that the crowd are really into him.

Tag titles - it was alright and had some good spots. I liked that it was basically an agreed 4 v 2 early doors (rather than it just being that way 'coincidentally' for babyface beatdown purposes) but yeah, there were some nice spots but I didn't think this flowed that well as a whole.

Ladder match - I mean... it's a multiman ladder match, isn't it? There have been fucking loads of them now and there's only so much to be done. Did have a few nice touches. I find Cassidy quite annoying but the spot where he ended up on the ladder being held up by Lee and Wardlow to try and grab the ring (I still think that joke seems a bit small time) was fun, I liked Wardlow just telling Lee to get off the ladder so they could have a fight and Lee launching Cassidy into orbit. It also reflects well on AEW that they've had the Wardlow stuff bubbling away and building to this win as well as MJF having his own separate feuds.

Punk vs. MJF - A bit slow at times, as gimmick matches of this sort often are. I don't think shaving five minutes off it would have harmed. It was good though. I've dipped in and out to catch some of the build for this and while I didn't think MJFs promo was OMGBESTEVAR as some did he's very, very good and it's nice to see somebody succeeding as a piece of shit heel who isn't trying to be secretly a fan favourite cool baddie. The ending worked well too.

Moxley/ Danielson - very good, obviously. And had William Regal come out at the end, so 12/5 stars for me.

Page vs. Cole - I just don't think I'm ever going to get into Adam Cole or buy into him as a main eventer. I've moaned about it before so I won't do it again. Also I thought this match had a slightly daft number of kickouts but I do like Hangman.

[wullie]

Now they've got all the tools in place, Tony Khan should have Adam Cole cut his hair and manage Keith Lee.

[Ian]

Now they've got all the tools in place, Tony Khan should have Adam Cole cut his hair and manage Keith Lee.

:D

[Baz]

Either they've massively nosedived in the last few years or you have weird tastes. Kyle O'Reilly is/was legitimately one of the best technical wrestlers of his generation and reDRagon one of the best tag teams outright. Their work in ROH and NJPW then NXT was phenomenal.Ive only seen him in AEW and in last nights PPV his selling was rubbish, and it seemed like he met Bobby Fish in the carpool that morning. The bit with Kyle O’Reilly going back and forth on the ropes was Grado-level lols.

Watched the rest now. Weird that the TBS title match was probably better than the Womens Title match.

I really don’t enjoy Bryan Danielson at all, or Jon Moxley in the ring, but it managed to be entertaining enough.

Dog Collar match was alright. Agree it was a bit long, and the whole Wardlow story arc has been great. He’s more over than Hook. :cool:

Main event was just okay but I think 4 hours of wrestling is about my limit.

Oh, Sting stole the show.

[Ian]

You don't like Danielson? Baz, mate.

[Queenslander]

I really want to care about Adam Page's title run but it just doesn't grab me at all. :(

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1501011628422164481

Not too shabby.

Although it's not as good as the Rollins or Bourne ones.

[Ben]

You don't like Danielson? Baz, mate.

I was struggling to get my head around the O'Reilly/reDRagon argument but this explains it.

[Baz]

I feel like people like him for his history. Nowadays his match are fairly slow, he does that annoying showboating like he’s trying to be heel but he can’t cos he Bryan Danielson, and all of his promos are the same. His matches aren’t exciting. His transitions are literally roll away and do star jumps. I wanna see more top rope suplex into a German suplex, like that Jungle Boy spot on The Young Bucks.

Probably doesn’t help that he mostly faces jobbers, to “educate” them.

And I’ve no idea about Kyle O’Reilly. It felt like his first televised match.

[Ben]

Different strokes for different folks. I find spotfests get boring quickly. They have their place on a show, but only in the odd match and certainly they belong in the midcard. Give me a slow build 30 minute main event any day.

[wullie]

I can't be doing with the Young Bucks at all. They're amazing at what they do, it's just that I've no interest in it.

[Ian]

Yep, I am broadly the same. I prefer my wrestling as more of soap opera sorta-fight than pure spectacle performance art type thing.

When somebody's surviving multiple piledrivers (or even superkicks or whatever) in the middle of a match it just takes me out of it.

Like when everybody was gushing about the Cena / Styles match a few years ago. I was already getting bored by the time we got to the second AA.

[Ben]

It's all about the selling and getting me invested in the story of the match. I don't like a lot of American wrestling really, given the amount of content. I normally watch Japanese wrestling and even then I'm not subscribed to anything at the moment; New Japan turned me off a bit after the onset of the pandemic and I only dip into other promotions if something is recommended.

For example, off the top of my head the best WWF/E match I've seen is Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin WM13 by quite a long shot. If I had to choose something more recent I'd go with #DIY vs. The Revival 2 out of 3 falls; the fact they modelled it on Midnights vs. Rock n' Roll is no coincidence to me.

[Browning]

Yep, I am broadly the same. I prefer my wrestling as more of soap opera sorta-fight than pure spectacle performance art type thing.

When somebody's surviving multiple piledrivers (or even superkicks or whatever) in the middle of a match it just takes me out of it.

Like when everybody was gushing about the Cena / Styles match a few years ago. I was already getting bored by the time we got to the second AA.

Yep. I don't know if the Cena/KO feud (when KO debuted) was the first to do it, but it was the first time I noticed it, and I hated it immediately. For me a match that goes:

Big move... 2 count... big move... 2 count... big move.... 2 count.... big move.... 2 count etc etc etc and then just ends with big move..... THREE COUNT

is not in the least big entertaining, but people wanked themselves silly over that match, and then every big WWE match for years got sucked into that formula. It made every match shit.

[Browning]

It's all about the selling and getting me invested in the story of the match. I don't like a lot of American wrestling really, given the amount of content. I normally watch Japanese wrestling and even then I'm not subscribed to anything at the moment; New Japan turned me off a bit after the onset of the pandemic and I only dip into other promotions if something is recommended.

For example, off the top of my head the best WWF/E match I've seen is Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin WM13 by quite a long shot. If I had to choose something more recent I'd go with #DIY vs. The Revival 2 out of 3 falls; the fact they modelled it on Midnights vs. Rock n' Roll is no coincidence to me.

Funnily enough, Bret Hart Vs Austin did nothing for me. I wasn't watching at the time and then a few years back my wife had a short lived attempt at getting into wrestling. We grabbed a list of the "top 100 matches" and started watching them and that one was fairly high on the list and it was the first one where neither of us could give a shit. That said, I never, ever cared for Bret Hart, I think everything he ever did was boring as fuck.

[Ben]

It's all opinions so that's absolutely fair. On that subject, I really never liked Ric Flair and could count the number of matches of his on one hand that I enjoyed.

[Browning]

Flair is a weird one to me because I don't feel like I've seen any of his "big" matches as they were before my time, with the exception of course of his match with HBK (which was incredible). What I've seen from him has been decent enough but he was an old man, and I'm not sure how much better he was in his prime.

I've never got Sting either, and whenever someone who likes him tries to explain it to me, my response boils down to "So he was cool because he sat on his arse up in the rafters and watched stuff?". I guess you had to be there....

[Ben]

Flair's great matches were with Steamboat and Windham in the 80's. He had a brilliant cage match with Ricky Morton that's worth the effort to track down if you're into that sort of thing.

I'm with you on Sting. There was a match with Vader in like 92/93 which was really good but Vader was an absolute monster in his prime so there's that, but other than that I can't name you a singles match of Sting's that was great. He stopped giving a shit in about 1994 and was very much in the right place at the right time with the Crow gimmick because the surfer was already done by that point.

[Ian]

Funnily enough, Bret Hart Vs Austin did nothing for me. I wasn't watching at the time and then a few years back my wife had a short lived attempt at getting into wrestling. We grabbed a list of the "top 100 matches" and started watching them and that one was fairly high on the list and it was the first one where neither of us could give a shit. That said, I never, ever cared for Bret Hart, I think everything he ever did was boring as fuck.

I think that, and probably many matches, don't always live up to the hype because I think there is understandably a bit of "you weren't there, man!" about it. Needs the investment, I think very few matches (unless you're a proper technical wrasslin' wonk) will stand up properly in isolation.

There is almost certainly an element of the same thing when I watch AEW now. I have seen reviews of Revolution and there are a bunch of matches I watched that the general consensus is that they're better than I thought they were. Part of this might be because I'm a grumpy old man and I like what I like but some of it is just that I'm not invested. I don't really care who wins any of them and that makes a big difference whether you're watching an old 'classic' or the current Dave Meltzer 9/5 star fapathon.


Yep. I don't know if the Cena/KO feud (when KO debuted) was the first to do it, but it was the first time I noticed it, and I hated it immediately. For me a match that goes:

Big move... 2 count... big move... 2 count... big move.... 2 count.... big move.... 2 count etc etc etc and then just ends with big move..... THREE COUNT

is not in the least big entertaining, but people wanked themselves silly over that match, and then every big WWE match for years got sucked into that formula. It made every match shit.

Yup. There are still matches I can enjoy depending on the performers involved but the most obviously formulaic is hard to really get into.

It's why often the best matches on a WWE card are the ones Vince clearly doesn't give a fuck about and just says "eh let them have 10-15 minutes and they can do what they want." Probably why at its peak NXT Black and Gold was so good as well because, again, Vince had no interest in it. Then it started to become more and more self indulgent as well.

AEW definitely has its own tropes, I'm just not sure if people aren't bored of them yet or are being more forgiving because it's still the new shiny thing.

[Ben]

I think that, and probably many matches, don't always live up to the hype because I think there is understandably a bit of "you weren't there, man!" about it. Needs the investment, I think very few matches (unless you're a proper technical wrasslin' wonk) will stand up properly in isolation.

This is very true. I'll take a modern day example: you can put on any random Okada vs. Tanahashi match and enjoy it, but you might not get the hype, especially as a non-fan. Watch the whole series in order (they must be up to about 15 now) and you'll get a completely different perspective and appreciation. Each match is like a chapter in a book.

[Ian]

And while I'm yelling at clouds, a match being long doesn't automatically make it better. I'm not sure if he was the first / biggest sinner on this front but I'll call it the Triple H effect. Bunging 10 minutes onto the match time without any idea of how to fill it doesn't automatically make it an EPIC.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I really do miss peak NXT black & gold.

Christ it was good.

[Ian]

I was actually thinking about that when we were talking about O'Reilly and Fish yesterday. A really good tag team and one of the best NXT had but they're not in any of those classic NXT tag matches that come to my mind. UE vs. Moustache Mountain was probably their best? Is there an obvious one I'm missing that you'd put up there with some of the DIY / AA / Revival classics?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Their fight with Moustache Mountain that was on NXT TV was an absolute belter and never gets talked about. It was better than their PPV fight for me.

[Ian]

Tyler Bate really is being fucked wasting languishing in NXT UK with his embarrassing uncle.

[Ben]

I was actually thinking about that when we were talking about O'Reilly and Fish yesterday. A really good tag team and one of the best NXT had but they're not in any of those classic NXT tag matches that come to my mind. UE vs. Moustache Mountain was probably their best? Is there an obvious one I'm missing that you'd put up there with some of the DIY / AA / Revival classics?

They never really got the spotlight in NXT compared to the other tag teams, their best stuff was in ROH.

[Browning]

Was it Orton and Edge that went for 3 weeks at Mania and was fucking shite? Tell the story and get out.

I can still remember channel flipping years ago and stumbling across a random Kurt Angle Vs Ken Kennedy match in TNA and being sucked in immediately despite not following TNA much at the time. Angle was one of those who just fucking got it and could tell a story in the ring with anyone at any time.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Tyler Bate really is being fucked wasting languishing in NXT UK with his embarrassing uncle.

He is but then what else is there for him right now?

Jobbing to Tony D'Angelo on NXT (I have no idea if Tony is good or if this would happen, I haven't watched in ages) or jobbing to the "DIRTY DAWGS" on RAW/Insert other shit wrestlers from Smackdown.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Was it Orton and Edge that went for 3 weeks at Mania and was fucking shite? Tell the story and get out.

I can still remember channel flipping years ago and stumbling across a random Kurt Angle Vs Ken Kennedy match in TNA and being sucked in immediately despite not following TNA much at the time. Angle was one of those who just fucking got it and could tell a story in the ring with anyone at any time.

Only 36 minutes according to Wiki, it felt so much longer though.

[Ian]

Was it Orton and Edge that went for 3 weeks at Mania and was fucking shite? Tell the story and get out.

Some say they're still ambling about that gym even now....

Their dogshit 'greatest ever' wrestling match went on about a week as well and that was fucking pre-recorded. If ever anything needed a brutal edit.

[Ben]

I can still remember channel flipping years ago and stumbling across a random Kurt Angle Vs Ken Kennedy match in TNA and being sucked in immediately despite not following TNA much at the time. Angle was one of those who just fucking got it and could tell a story in the ring with anyone at any time.

Angle 2002-06 was absolutely untouchable. Shame he destroyed himself in the process.

[wullie]

Robby Bobby Roode is one who's way better than whatever they've got him doing, his team with Ziggler would be a top flight act in a parallel universe where they're not throwing custard pies at each other or arguing over Japanese shampoo commercials.

[Ian]

I rewatched Angle / HBK the other day. Still a banger. I need to watch more of his TNA stuff though.

When I was using the network to catch up on all the PPVs I'd missed after I first gave up on wrestling Angle obviously had a bunch of really good matches but the one that really stands out to me in some ways was the one vs. Rey Mysterio because you just don't see anybody who isn't a cruiserweight matching Mysterio for pure speed and yet Angle did it. Incredible stuff.

Again though, I had some investment in Angle. Would I have given as much of a shit watching those matches back if I hadn't already loved his early-2000s stuff? Impossible to know.

It's also what made the few matches he did in his last WWE run so tragic. He could barely move. And got retired by Jezza just to put the final nail in the coffin.

[Ben]

Robby Bobby Roode is one who's way better than whatever they've got him doing, his team with Ziggler would be a top flight act in a parallel universe where they're not throwing custard pies at each other or arguing over Japanese shampoo commercials.

Vince just loves to fuck with good wrestlers. The likes of Molly Holly, Taka Michinoku and Al Snow were phenomenal workers but you wouldn't know it if you only watched WWE.

[wullie]

I got into a habit of watching the really old stuff on WWE network, my favourite was easily the early 80s Mid South shows, you could rocket through them as nothing lingers too long to outstay its welcome. It's weird how amateurish all these accomplished talkers were most of the time, and seeing people like Rick Rude as just a happy man with a moustache and Demolition Smash turning dirty commie with Nikolai Volkoff, magic.

[Ben]

Mid South is a good watch yeah, Bill Watts is fucking mental but knew how to book an old school territory and when Ernie Ladd is on commentary it's just gold.

[wullie]

I'm up to the point where Bill Watts is coming out of retirement for one more match, he's taken Jim Ross to see if they can get Junkyard Dog to come back to help him but he refuses and instead turns up but in a mask as someone else which I'm guessing was the main inspiration for the Hulk Hogan Mr America thing. Also the Rock and Roll Express have started appearing and the girls go mad despite them somehow always looking like old men even in their 20s. Lower standards for superhunks back then

[Ben]

It's mad they're still going today. They had a match with FTR a couple of months ago that was genuinely good. Shows you don't need athleticism if you know how to work a crowd.

[Ian]

1501011628422164481

Not too shabby.

Although it's not as good as the Rollins or Bourne ones.

I just watched this. And nothing else because the rest of Raw sounded shiiiiiit. That was a really fun match though. And possibly a well timed example of what I was talking about in one of my moany posts earlier as I enjoyed it much more than the three-way tag from Revolution but I have opinions on all these people. I'm quite pleased they've been more patient with RK-Bro than I thought they would be but given Orton seems to be having such a good time I wonder if he's just told them he doesn't want it splitting up yet. It's also just nice to see Gable in a relatively prominent spot.

Still had some of the annoying tropes though. Tower of Doom spot, people getting erections just looking at the Wrestlemania sign, etc.

And poor old KO getting reduced to a chat show segment at Mania so he can get battered by Austin.

[Ben]

And poor old KO getting reduced to a chat show segment so he can get battered by Austin.

So that's really going to happen? Oh boy.

[Ian]

Yes but as part of The KO Show rather than an actual match by the sounds of it which is... better? Maybe? I mean I'll probably skip it anyway so it doesn't matter to me but I just wish Owens could get something worthwhile to do and let some other cunt listen to Austin bark out some catchphrases before eating a stunner.

[Shindig]

All I ask is that finishers be protected. To the point where spots are designed around not getting hit by them.

[Ben]

All I ask is that finishers be protected. To the point where spots are designed around not getting hit by them.

:drool:

I've not watched AEW since the beginning but Omega's OWA was the perfect example of how to protect a finisher for years.

Also the occasional win with a non-finisher out of the blue is excellent.

[Ian]

I don't think it's been kicked out of in AEW has it?

I have some respect for old Jezza Corbin for this actually. I think nobody has kicked out of the End of Days still which I assume means he just refuses to do it if he's not winning / the pin isn't getting broken up by a third person.

[Ben]

It's how it used to be. Hogan was seething that Sid kicked out of the leg drop at WrestleMania because Warrior missed his cue to break up the pin.

The Attitude Era ruined finishers really and the current generation turned it up to 11.

[Ian]

Yeah kicking out of one should be the exception rather than the rule. It's why I like guys who finish matches in different ways but then have their proper finisher which is the killer move which you only have somebody kick off on very special occasions.

[phonics]

I don't think it's been kicked out of in AEW has it?

I have some respect for old Jezza Corbin for this actually. I think nobody has kicked out of the End of Days still which I assume means he just refuses to do it if he's not winning / the pin isn't getting broken up by a third person.

Technically yes it has and no it hasn’t because Moxley put his leg on the rope but it was a no DQ match so that didn’t matter however it was in that match with the pathetic sparkler show at the end that gave Eddie Kingston PTSD and the explosion caused Kenny to let go of the pin.

I’m with Baz on the Bryan thing btw. I’m just not a fan of ‘technical’ wrestling.

[Ben]

A leg on the rope is fine. Like the time Neville (PAC) did the Red Arrow on Rollins but rolled him up so hard on the pin that his foot flopped over onto the rope.

Absolutely fantastic spot.

[Baz]

He’s barely a technical wrestler anymore. At least, not so far in AEW. Like back in the day I could watch Benoit vs Jericho vs Angle for days and buzz off the transitions and reversals that led to another move, and not just following away to do starjumps or flex your biceps.

I appreciate Bryan Danielson used to be considered the best technical wrestler, but his matches in AEW are mostly him avoiding stuff, like he’s playing WWE2K and just mashing the block/reverse and taunt buttons.

I don’t deny being a spot fest soyboy though, and there’s a reason Sammy Guevara, Jungle Boy and, to a lesser extent Nick Jackson, are my favourites, and i want Hook to get squashed.

[wullie]

What happened to the little guy who was in Jungle Boy's gang, is he gone? Having him replaced with Christian was a huge upgrade but a weird one.

[Disco]

Technically yes it has and no it hasn’t because Moxley put his leg on the rope but it was a no DQ match so that didn’t matter however it was in that match with the pathetic sparkler show at the end that gave Eddie Kingston PTSD and the explosion caused Kenny to let go of the pin.

I’m with Baz on the Bryan thing btw. I’m just not a fan of ‘technical’ wrestling.

Kota Ibushi kicked out of it but it was years ago so everyone seems to pretend it never happened.

[Baz]

What happened to the little guy who was in Jungle Boy's gang, is he gone? Having him replaced with Christian was a huge upgrade but a weird one.

Marko Stunt. He was recently on poster with Joey Janela for GCW so not sure if they’re both in AEW anymore or what.

[Ian]

A leg on the rope is fine. Like the time Neville (PAC) did the Red Arrow on Rollins but rolled him up so hard on the pin that his foot flopped over onto the rope.

Absolutely fantastic spot.

It was a good match and the best thing about that spot is the way they did the pin it wasn't an obviously signposted WWE thing and the fans started to go absolutely mental thinking an actual mad surprise was about to happen.

Top moment.

[Shindig]

I should rattle out more Rules of Wrestling (tm)

1. Protect finishers. They should be feared and the submission ones should be like an instant tap unless you really want to show the other guy's resilience.
2. No storylines go longer than 6 months. There's fuckloads of TV time now and you can get your build in easy.
3. The supporting titles IC/TV/Cruiserweight/etc should have some weight to them. Make them seem like a big deal. A promotion, a thing to fight for.
4. If you fuck a spot up, don't repeat it immediately. The chance has gone.
5. Wrestle through ad breaks. Properly. You have replays. Let the live audience get their entertainment.
6. Braun Strowman should win a Rumble by tipping the ring.
7. Make your characters feel distinct. If you're bringing in people with the same gimmick, team them up. Don't have them cluttering the singles pool.
8. Scripts shouldn't be followed to the letter. Commentary should be improvised, promos should also, to an extent. Just tell the talent what things to hit and what to end on.
9. Don't be afraid to build a feud up without having the guys fight for ages. Build the anticipation on the mic and then let them go all Don Frye at RoyalWrestleSummerSeries.
10. Surprise Rumble winners. It's okay to do them and you've got an immediate 'Well, they wouldn't put him there if they weren't going to put him over at Mania.' crowd waffle.
11. Too many cool heels. Cunt heels are better.
12. Someone get injured and kind of end the feud? Just put it on ice until they make a triumphant return. Simmer it in the background if you have to.
13. Sometimes the crowd is heel. Bastards.

[Ian]

14. The Canadian Destroyer is banned.
15. Pointing at the Wrestlemania sign is punishable by execution of you and all of your loved ones.
16. All tag team matches (playa) must be announced by Teddy Long

[Ben]

14. The Canadian Destroyer is banned.

Oh god yes. Petey Williams had a beautiful finisher and the spot monkeys killed it.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Can the Super-Plex into Falcon Arrow result in a finish sometimes?

[Shindig]

I do love the idea of forbidden moves that only get brought out in blood feuds.

[Ian]

Can the Super-Plex into Falcon Arrow result in a finish sometimes?

I always thought Rollins should finish a lot of his normal matches with this and the Curb Stomp should be his "no seriously fuck you" finisher for big feuds or when he can't put somebody away.

[Ian]

17. Commentators saying "that could do it!!!!!" or similar for a move that hasn't won anybody a match in decades.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

They've actually made Ziggler the NXT champion...

The brand is officially dead.

[Shindig]

18. Don't put main roster talent on your developmental show.
19. If you have talent not doing anything, farm them out for indie dates. Y'know, so they get some work in.

[Ian]

They've actually made Ziggler the NXT champion...

The brand is officially dead.

Fucking hell. :D

[wullie]

I don't mind main roster runs generally, the early days when you had Cesaro throwing Sami Zayn around with one hand was great. Not sure they need to be the top champ though unless it's a full switch.

[Ben]

I assume the young Steiner kid that dropped the belt will move up? It'll be mental if Ziggler isn't just a placeholder to put over the next guy.

Also on the topic of Steiner, why the fuck is he not called Rex Steiner anymore? That's cool as fuck.

[Ian]

Ciampa ate the pin so Ziggler will just lose the belt back to Breakkkker next month on the Mania weekend show.

And he claims the name change was his idea. If so and he really picked "Breakker" somebody should have given him a slap and told him to pipe down.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

They've changed Pete Dunne's name to "Butch"...

What the fuck is wrong with this company?

[Disco]

It's all about the Butch.

[Queenslander]

They've changed Pete Dunne's name to "Butch"...

What the fuck is wrong with this company?

Are you really surprised by another terrible name change?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Surprised no, disappointed? Yes.

1502457352590614532

Big E had to be stretchered out of the arena after this, he did put his thumbs up whilst being wheeled out but it doesn't look great.

[Ben]

That’s a broken neck.

Also Pete Dunne :facepalm:

[Baz]

Hardy Boyz :drool:

[wullie]

Pete Dunne getting the Peaky Blinders gimmick and the Ray Wilkins name, great stuff

[Queenslander]

Pete Dunne's career would flourish if he joined Suzuki Gun.

[Baz]

Pete Dunne getting the Peaky Blinders gimmick and the Ray Wilkins name, great stuff

Adam Cole’s name.

[Ian]

Fucking "Butch." :face:

[Ian]

And I'd missed Mahow's Big E tweet but fucking hell.

This is not the first time somebody's ended up hurt wrestling Holland either. He's a sloppy worker.

Maybe that one isn't his fault? I dunno, but you don't keep hurting people just due to bad luck.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Confirmed broken neck for Big E.

[Shindig]

Bugger.

[Browning]

Scott Hall is on life support after multiple heart attacks.

[Shindig]

Shit. Given the cocktail of meds he's on, that might be it for him.

[Ben]

Ah man. :(

DDP did miracles with him, but one wonders how he never actually died at some point in the 20 years previously.

Had the best punch in the business as well as being an absolute specimen. Oozed star quality up until completely throwing in the towel in WCW.

[Baz]

I still think about if (how?) the ending to the ladder match with Shawn Michaels was intentional or some amazing miracle to one of my favourite matches of all time.

[Lewis]

Three heart attacks is some going even for a wrestler. He must have used Nash and Hogan's quota.

[Shindig]

Nash would be in for a different quad bypass.

[Ian]

:D

[Browning]

According to Nash they’re just waiting for Hall’s family to be there before they discontinue the life support.

[Shindig]

Imagine turning up to the pearly gates and he's working the door. :uhoh:

[7om]

Just saw the news. Fuck :(

Remember Bash at the Beach 96 like it was yesterday. Amazing time to be a pro wrestling fan.

[Lewis]

Imagine turning up to the pearly gates and he's working the door. :uhoh:

:lol:

[Browning]

He's gone. Seems to have battled for several hours after they turned off the life support, but it was always going to take a miracle.

[Mike]

Rubbish news to wake up to

[Queenslander]

Killer Kross had signed with NJPW and has call out Minoru Suzuki.

I have no idea who he will align with at this stage.

[Ian]

He looks much younger with the hair.

[Queenslander]

Heaps better that fake bald bastard.

I trust Gedo to get a lot more out of him than Vince. My guess is that he might pick up the US Title then go on a tour of America or go on a monster run with the Never Openweight title in Japan.

[Ben]

I've not seen a lot (any) of him before but New Japan never tend to give a new guy a run with a belt right away. Is he that good?

[Queenslander]

I think he is with the added bonus of him being huge.

[Ian]

I've only ever seen him in NXT where he was... Fine-ish? But I dunno if they were doing the WWE thing if limiting his repertoire to make him look "more like a monster."

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I didn't like him in his NXT run. He was so dull and the booking was crap.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Ian Quizzlemania today, starts at 8 rather than 9.

[Ian]

Ian Quizzlemania today, starts at 8 rather than 9.

Thanks for the heads up, hadn't even spotted it was on this week. That's quick since the last one, no?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Thanks for the heads up, hadn't even spotted it was on this week. That's quick since the last one, no?

Three weeks I believe so it's on the shorter side.

Line up is Brian Zane, Tempest, SP3 and Greg Cherry.

Greg has won every single Fan Quizzlemania I believe and there's been a push (especially from SRS) to get him on. I'm not a fan of some nobody being on.

[Ian]

I don't mind it as a one-off.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

The prices of the stuff on "The Price is Shite" are absolutely mental.

Even for shit wrestling merchandise it's crazy.

[Ian]

People really will spend a lot of money on any old shit.

[Ben]

Arsenal playing Razor's theme at half time there. That's nice.

[Ian]

Arsenal playing Razor's theme at half time there. That's nice.

:cool:

[Ian]

Greg has won every single Fan Quizzlemania I believe and there's been a push (especially from SRS) to get him on. I'm not a fan of some nobody being on.

Not very banterous is he? Pretty much exactly what you'd expect from an enormous fan of a wrestling Youtube channel who's a mega trivia nerd.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Not very banterous is he? Pretty much exactly what you'd expect from an enormous fan of a wrestling Youtube channel who's a mega trivia nerd.

His intro promo about the 10 reasons he was brought on whilst decent in content was presented so poorly, knew we were onto a loser from the start.

[Disco]

I'm not quite sold on Jericho and his new gimmick (although I'll watch any amount of that one guy from 2.0) but I'll give him this, he knows how to get booed by an AEW crowd.

[phonics]

Matt Cardona's lawyers would like a word. Definition of gimmick infringement.

[Disco]

Yeah but he wasn't on Dynamite.

Giving his goons shitty new names was a nice touch.

[Ian]

I'm just reading the NXT results. As if having Ziggler as champion wasn't bad enough fucking Miz TV. :D

That'll pop a rating.

And poor old Kushida losing to an NXT UK fella who didn't even get an entrance.

[Disco]

I'm still amused by "Daddy Magic Matt Minard" as a rebrand, good enough to be real.

[Disco]

Moxley vs Ospreay at the awfully named Windy City Riot, I'm rather looking forward to that.

[Ben]

The latest WON has some horrific details about Scott Hall's death. :(

TL;DR he relapsed during the initial stages of the pandemic and was under the influence when he fell and broke his hip. Couldn't move to the phone so lay there for days.

[Baz]

Jeez.

The Hardy Boyz having their old music is class. Proper gets me buzzing.

[Disco]

Rodey Chodes re-signing with WWE is now done.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Stardust :drool:

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1504978460023967750

Bork :cool:

[Ian]

The first five minutes of Raw with Owens impersonating Austin were very good. He's so much better than being Bray Wyatt to Austin's Undertaker and feuding himself so he can get beaten up at Mania but he's too talented to not make something of it.

[Ian]

Despite WWE doing their best in all the usual ways (ad breaks fucking with momentum of a match, shonky ending with inevitable outcome) Styles and Rollins put together a really fun match.

The six day build Rollins and Rhodes (if that's what happens) is gonna be great....

Also put on the four minutes of NXT where Hudson got murdered by the U-Boat Captain. Not sure how I feel about him being a bit more hench.

[Lewis]

Scott Steiner in the Hall of Fame, probably with a two minute delay on his speech. :cool:

[Shindig]

Nah, they'll get him to do Steiner Maths. That'll take all his time up.

[Lewis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QbxySfWNZQ

[7om]

Good little thread on the squaredcircle subreddit about most popular wrestling conspiracy theories. The best one: Stephanie McMahon is an anagram of The Macho Man Penis :lol:

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

https://411mania.com/wrestling/possible-spoiler-talent-wrestlemania-weekend/

A new report has a possible spoiler regarding a big name being brought in for WrestleMania weekend. PWInsider has confirmed with multiple sources that WWE is bringing in Shane McMahon for the weekend.

BEST IN THE WORLD :drool:

[Ian]

He'll probably beat Cody.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Cody knows he can't take those punches in bunches.

[Gray Fox]

The best strikes in the world.

[Ian]

Not to be mistaken with THE BEST PURE STRIKER IN WWE HISTORY, an accolade Spooky Mark seems to have acquired by buying some MMA gloves at some point.

[wullie]

Is Billy Gunn still the best pure athlete or was that given to someone else when he joined a rival company?

[Gray Fox]

The scenes when it's Shane trotted out to face Seth and Rhodes is nowhere to be seen.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Or Cody comes out in his Stardust gear and Shane jumps from the top of something to take him out and then he fights Seth in a 1 hour classic :drool:

[Ian]

What would kill Cody first, the impact of Shane's body or the monsoon of sweat which would be gushing from the top of whatever he'd wheezed his way to the top of?

[Disco]

Cody gets rebranded as Shane Mcmahon and has to use his music and do all his moves and stuff.

[Ian]

Cody gets rebranded as Shane Mcmahon and has to use his music and do all his moves and stuff.

:D

[Shindig]

Nah, just have Shane McMahon entering the building in a variety of clever disguises.

[Gray Fox]

Toni Storm must have got bored raking in the OnlyFans money as she’s now All Elite.

[Waffdon]

Is Stone Cold actually wrestling this weekend? What’s the card?

[Browning]

It’s unlikely. He’s doing the KO Show but I guess it could turn into a match.

[Ian]

I assume him and KO will yap at each other for a bit, Stone Cold will do pointless promo that's nothing but his catchphrases and some TEXAS stuff. KO presumably attempts a Stunner before getting one in return, beer party, the end.

The card is a load of meh with no build. 14 matches and I think there are maybe about five I might be interested in.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I'll watch it all but it does look a bit shit.

Knoxville/Zayn to be MOTPLE.

[Browning]

I only really care about Charlotte Vs Ronda. Maybe Brock/Reigns but only if Brock wins.

It really has been a shit mania build.

[Ian]

I'm astonished by the amount of people, even normally more cynical people, who have convinced themselves this one is going to be great just because Bork is officially the face.

Ronda / Charlotte is either going to be a minor classic or a bin fire the fans turn on and I'm curious to see which.

[Baz]

1509606287939620866

https://c.tenor.com/mB5eMotJlu8AAAAC/cody-rhodes-stardust.gif

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Rumours running wild that Spooky Mark will actually be Seth's opponent, lol.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I still hate the name Bron Breakker but he hits a damn nice spear.

It's almost prime Goldberg-esque.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Ciampa ate the pin so Ziggler will just lose the belt back to Breakkkker next month on the Mania weekend show.

And he claims the name change was his idea. If so and he really picked "Breakker" somebody should have given him a slap and told him to pipe down.

I knew they wouldn't give him back the title.

This Ziggler thing is stupid.

[Ian]

:lol:

Fucking hell, what are they doing.

[wullie]

That's got to be him moving up to the main roster along with maybe Ciampa and LA Knight who both are a bit too good/old to really fit that show now

[Ian]

Can't wait to see Ciampa part of the crowd of people who chase the 24/7 champion.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

That's got to be him moving up to the main roster along with maybe Ciampa and LA Knight who both are a bit too good/old to really fit that show now

Ciampa 100% is. He's been on SD lately and he said his goodbyes tonight.

[Gray Fox]

Can't wait to see Ciampa part of the crowd of people who chase the 24/7 champion.

He'll be lucky if he's in the crowd of people who accompany Logan Paul to the ring. If a few years he might even be surprised reactionary character in a hallway when Vince walks through.

[Disco]

Those see through barriers were horrific, how long have they been a thing?

[Lewis]

Stone Cold isn't really wrestling is he? Why?

[phonics]

This pre-show is so fucking long.

[phonics]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FPYGzOSXoAQS4XP.jpg

Andrew The Giant.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I think that was a legit injury for Boogs.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FPYQnLgWQAguj_l?format=jpg&name=large

Looks it.

[Waffdon]

I’ve just seen the card for tomorrow. Reigns/Lesnar once again, a four way womens tag match, Johnny Knoxville, a commentator fighting and another tag match. Holy Christ.

When’s Seth Rollins match?

[Waffdon]

Logan :D

Best heel in the company.

[Disco]

Logan Paul is genuinely a better wrestler than the Miz.

[Waffdon]

He did look legitimately decent even aside from playing a heel well.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I’ve just seen the card for tomorrow. Reigns/Lesnar once again, a four way womens tag match, Johnny Knoxville, a commentator fighting and another tag match. Holy Christ.

When’s Seth Rollins match?

The "commentator" isn't too shabby at all:

https://c.tenor.com/AGyCvc3YMjYAAAAd/adam-cole-pat-mcafee.gif

1297327809166225410

[Waffdon]

It’s still a commentator

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Rollins/Cody was damn good.

The inverted superplex into a curtain call was lovely.

[Queenslander]

Loved the entrance.


https://streamable.com/vdhaom

[Browning]

Never underestimate WWE's ability to disappoint. Only one match on the card I was truly looking forward to and it was fucking shit.

[Browning]

Fucking hell :drool:

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Austin/KO was quality.

Steve :cool:

[SvN]

Stone Cold v KO was perfect. I loved it.

[Baz]

KO did a great job.

The ending made me lol out loud

[phonics]

Never underestimate WWE's ability to disappoint. Only one match on the card I was truly looking forward to and it was fucking shit.

Miserable. I had low expectations and they were roundly blown out the water.

[Browning]

Fuck me, I wasn't ready for the Nikki Bella comments about Vader:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4g9muyfl0I

[Shindig]

Sometimes you just forget. :D

[Gray Fox]

Fair fucks to Austin last night. I was expecting some dull really drawn out talking that lead to one stunner to send the crowd home happy. Did not expect him to take a stunner himself and to take suplexes on the concrete.

Stardust v Ref Rollins was very good.

The rest was a bit paint by numbers. Except what the fuck was Charlotte v Ronda? For someone so pissy at not being adored by all, not even Charlotte could drag her to a good match. From talk about her though it seems Ronda refused to work dark matches in the build up, so no wonder she was so sloppy. Did they also really have a ref bump, only to have nothing come of it and it end under one little boot to the face?

[Browning]

No, it was so Charlotte could tap out.

[Gray Fox]

Oh good. A rematch at SummerSlam then.

[Ian]

Smackdown tag - Skipped it. I do not care for the Boogs / Nakamura tag team and it was clearly gonna get no time.

McIntyre / Jezza - Skipped it.

Mysterios / Miz and Paul - Skipped through to get to the hot tag and see what Paul was up to. He did alright. The hot tag worked nicely and the closing stretch looked decent and lol at Miz getting the biggest babyface pop he'll ever have after the match.

Belair vs. Lynch - Match of the night, maybe? A bit less slick than the Banks one last year, which is a weird thing to say, but it had some nice spots and the crowd were into and they're just two good wrestlers so yeah. Enjoyed this, right result, good reaction from the crowd.

Cody / Rollins - Also really liked this. The entrance and reaction from the fans (who were pretty decent most of the night) was great, I loved the little Stardust bit (don't tempt fate, Cody) and how entertained Rollins was by it. I was a bit worried early that it was gonna be a drag but once they got into it they kept things going at a fair old lick. I enjoyed Rollins doing a reverse version of his superplex / Falcon Arrow thing and a big shout out to his ring gear too.

Flair / Rousey - Well, I said I thought it would either be a classic or a bin fire and it was definitely nearer to the latter. Rousey in her first run was clearly green but got it and managed to have good matches in spite of that. She now looks like she's phoning it in.

Austin / KO - For all my negativity and pessimism this was at least better than I thought it would be. Austin looks his age but at least he did take some bumps and gave Owen a bit and took his Stunner so fair play to him. Better than I expected and at least it wasn't a total waste of KO's time in the way that some of those Undertaker feuds have been for people. He got a nice juicy spot here.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

The SD tag match was cut short anyway as Boogs' got injured. Torn quadriceps and a torn patella tendon after trying to double fireman's carry both Uso's.

[Ian]

Oh was that a legit injury? Spotted that but just assumed it was a work.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Oh was that a legit injury? Spotted that but just assumed it was a work.

He's booked in for surgery and out for a few months.

They also had to change the finish of the match because of it.

[Browning]

Smackdown tag - Skipped it. I do not care for the Boogs / Nakamura tag team and it was clearly gonna get no time.

McIntyre / Jezza - Skipped it.

Mysterios / Miz and Paul - Skipped through to get to the hot tag and see what Paul was up to. He did alright. The hot tag worked nicely and the closing stretch looked decent and lol at Miz getting the biggest babyface pop he'll ever have after the match.

Belair vs. Lynch - Match of the night, maybe? A bit less slick than the Banks one last year, which is a weird thing to say, but it had some nice spots and the crowd were into and they're just two good wrestlers so yeah. Enjoyed this, right result, good reaction from the crowd.

Cody / Rollins - Also really liked this. The entrance and reaction from the fans (who were pretty decent most of the night) was great, I loved the little Stardust bit (don't tempt fate, Cody) and how entertained Rollins was by it. I was a bit worried early that it was gonna be a drag but once they got into it they kept things going at a fair old lick. I enjoyed Rollins doing a reverse version of his superplex / Falcon Arrow thing and a big shout out to his ring gear too.

Flair / Rousey - Well, I said I thought it would either be a classic or a bin fire and it was definitely nearer to the latter. Rousey in her first run was clearly green but got it and managed to have good matches in spite of that. She now looks like she's phoning it in.

Austin / KO - For all my negativity and pessimism this was at least better than I thought it would be. Austin looks his age but at least he did take some bumps and gave Owen a bit and took his Stunner so fair play to him. Better than I expected and at least it wasn't a total waste of KO's time in the way that some of those Undertaker feuds have been for people. He got a nice juicy spot here.

Pretty much agree with all of that. I think the problem is... they haven't really saved enough of any interest for tonight. It's basically Brock Vs Reigns and a bunch of filler.

[Ian]

For tonight I'll watch the tag, probably Edge / AJ to see if AJ can get a match out of Edge I actually like, maybe Theory/McAfee out of morbid curiosity. Everything else will depend on reviews.

[wullie]

The Johnny Knoxville match is the one I'm most curious about, I hope they'll spend about 20 seconds in the ring and then just cut back to Sami Zayn getting slapped with a massive hand and fired from a cannon throughout the night.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I'm hoping Zayn takes a frog splash from Preston Lacy.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

10 stars for Knoxville v Zayn.

It was perfect.

Wee Man's body slam :cool:

[Browning]

It was genuinely the best match of Mania, no matter what comes later.

[Pleb]

That blew Becky's match right out of the building.

[Mike]

The baby has hit her 6 month sleep regression (a week early!) which sucks for sleep. Means I am up to watch a bit of live Mania.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1510799258223525891

Seems AJ punched himself during his entrance.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

They've made Pete Dunne look and act so fucking shit :(

[Gray Fox]

*Butch

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Austin :cool:

[Gray Fox]

The best worst stunner of all time.

[Dark Soldier]

I only watch Rumble and Mania these days but fuck me all of this has been great. Laughing my tits off at most of it. Such a beautiful mess.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Yeah this has been the most fun Mania in a while.

[Browning]

Night 2 has somehow been much better than Night 1.

[Waffdon]

Reigns hasn’t been pinned for over two years? He’s worse than Cana and Hogan combined :D

[Dark Soldier]

If the Rock comes out at the end and challenges Reigns I'm gonna fucking punch the dog with joy

[Waffdon]

I watched the last ten minutes of that and all I seen was Spears, superman punches, F5 and more spears.

[Dark Soldier]

Fuck me that was the worst ending. Horrible.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I was expecting Brock to kick out, such a flat finish.

[Waffdon]

That was the most anticlimactic main event I’ve ever seen. I assumed something was happening after the boring finish :D

[Gray Fox]

Finished early too. Something felt very off about it.

[Browning]

Yea that main event was tragic. Great night apart from that though.

[Dark Soldier]

Aye I saw 15 minutes left and expected something. But nope. Most stupendous match in sports entertainment history right there.

[Gray Fox]

I like that they embraced a bit of the silly madness of rasslin' this time. Having it be super serious 24/7 just leads to people not caring. Some gratuitous fan service in wheeling Austin out to stunner everyone as well.
Though I reckon if you ask Vince, he'd take that as a serious and legit victory, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that he was in on it too.

They do need to change up their main event scene though. 6 of the last 8 Mania main events have featured Roman. Problem for them is now Brock is seemingly off into the sunset they have no one else. They built Drew up great but now he's reduced to beating up Happy Corbin. The sad likelihood is that you're going to have Roman hold the belt through to the next Mania now.

[wullie]

It's a shame that McIntyre got his biggest moment in a warehouse with nobody there, but apparently he's the first person to kick out of Corbin's finisher or something so he might be set up to go back up to the top again now I assume Brock's gone for a while

[Lewis]

Reigns hasn’t been pinned for over two years? He’s worse than Cana and Hogan combined :D

'Doesn't work for me, uce.'

[Ian]

Raw tag - Was fun. Not a classic anything but I enjoyed it, and Riddle's RKO to Montez at the end was great.

Lashley vs. Omos - Wow, Lashley won even though Omos is so tall! Incredible. What a Wrestlemania moment. (I am genuinely pleased they didn't make Bobbo lose to him.)

Jackass shit - Nope

Womens tag - Also nope. WWE don't care about those belts so I don't see why I should, despite there being multiple women in there who would definitely have had better matches against each other in singles fashion than Flair and Rousey did.

Edge vs. Styles - I'm sure there'll be somebody wanking themselves dry over this but fuck me Edge is boring. Every bit trying to wrestle the 'HHH epic' every time. After a quick start I thought we might get something a bit breezier but nope, AJ was made to work at about a quarter of his speed to match Edge and it was reet dull. They spent about half the match lying down between moves I reckon.

Kliq-y Blinders vs. New Day - No, but fucking lol at how short that was. All involved (other than Holland) deserve better than that.

McAfee vs. Theory - This was very silly, and I'd much rather they found room on the card for, say, their Intercontinental champion, but okay, whatever, it's a WWE thing and at least Theory losing was because he was being cocky and McAfee stole it. And the glass shattering was fun, but once all that shit was done I'm not sure it does much for Theory to lose to a commentator, be showed up by an octogenarian, then filled in by a slightly less old man. I suppose it's a prominent spot for him if nothing else and his Stunner sell was as excellent as Vince's was tragic. Even by his own low standards that was the worst sell of a Stunner he's ever managed.

THE BIGGEST MOST STUPENDOUSEST WRESTLEMANIA MATCH EVER!!!!!!!! - Obviously not. From the glimpses I saw skipping through to the end it sounds like it was every bit the waste of time it was very obviously going to be and I'm not sure why anybody expected different.

Belair in Wrestlemania's best match two years on the bounce, then. Good for her.

[Ben]

WrestleMania was garbage.

Just watched FTR vs. Briscoes from ROH Supercard. I'm a sucker for tag team wrestling but holy shit that was exceptional. Might have even been better than anything in that run NXT had in 2016 ish.

[phonics]

Y'all hate wrestling. It's supposed to be fun. Have a laugh.

It's like going to the panto and being annoyed that widow twanky didn't turn around when the crowd shouted he's behind you.

[Ian]

Miserable. I had low expectations and they were roundly blown out the water.

You've changed your tune.

[phonics]

Have I misunderstood what that phrase means or does that not mean that Wrestlemania massively outperformed my expectations?

Edit: oh I see. I was calling out whoever I quoted as Miserable.

[Ian]

Oh, I stand corrected.

So which were the good ("good") bits of Wrestlemania people are being too miserable about?

Also I look forward to you never again criticising anything which is meant to be fun.

[wullie]

Was the main event cut short? Some screenshots make Roman Reigns' arm look like he properly fucked it up.

[Browning]

Oh, I stand corrected.

So which were the good ("good") bits of Wrestlemania people are being too miserable about?

Also I look forward to you never again criticising anything which is meant to be fun.

Zayn Vs Knoxville was Match of the Year.